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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 352410 times)

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #315 on: March 16, 2011, 03:23:58 AM »
So each time you wind a half layer you jump back to the middle instead of winding back and forth?

But either way this is so simple to throw two dislike coils on a iron wire. And small too.

I be on dis kwikly. :D

« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 05:20:01 AM by giantkiller »

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #315 on: March 16, 2011, 03:23:58 AM »

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #316 on: March 16, 2011, 03:57:05 AM »
I have got about 1.7 COP with the mechanical version.I have tested the solid state version too but with simillar results. People where talking here about Magnacoasters and I posted my results.I don't think this one is a hoax but ofcourse, this is my opinion not a crime.This is the reason we are here, to share info.
I have got those results without this type of coil I posted early and after playing with the setup from GAP Power I built this type of coil and got much better results. Since then, I have not done proper measurements but I am confident that this coil will increase the COP.
People should try this type of coil even in other setups and see the results.

All the best,
RomeroUK

VERY well done. That is good news but some of us knew this can work as it was patented LONG before magnacoaster even thought  about it. As you say if you can squeeze a bit more out of it passing COP 2 is damn hard but i think it can be done with cap load switching and perhaps the coil shorting on top of this will help some more.

Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #317 on: March 16, 2011, 05:44:16 AM »
@bolt

Quote
Watch the Bob Boyce DVD/Vid on google about his stuff he mentions in the vid that his 3 phase toroid produces a total DC to Gas COP of about 4-5.
-bolt

Thanks bolt. I'll check out the DVD tonight. Just for the record, I'm not talking about the Boyce gas thing, I'm talking about the Boyce TPU in rotational or vortex mode (with biased pulsed B-field) and pulses of 1% duty cycle 120 degrees Out-of-phase.  ie. pulses 500ns on, 49.5us off.   Aka. The thing that apparently can self-destruct and vaporize itself, induce lightning strikes, etc.  See this link:

http://feynmanslab.com/docs/tpu/Bob_Boyce_TPU.pdf


And this discussion, where Boyce comes on the thread and has a meltdown over his patent rights, and bitches everyone out:

http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?496-Bob-Boyce-Hex-Controller-Edited-02-01-2011


Your transformer idea is a good one. I'll try to see if I can snag a 3phase powdered iron core / steel core transformer.  I'm still going to construct a Boyce TPU replication though.


Quote
"With the exception of trying a few different core materials the construction using special silver litz wire and covered in bees wax etc is just an expensive waste of time. "
-bolt

I agree regarding the core material ... I think the powdered iron core transformer might be important , because ferrite has too high a permeability.  Boyce even says in that PDF that he couldn't get the effect to work with ferrite.  This might be due to scalar magnetic impulses, which we don't know much about.  That's what I'm after -- experimenting with rotating Tesla scalar waves in a toroid.

Perhaps the SM TPU was an Air-core device which used rotating Tesla scalar waves.

That said, I think the wire material and the winding geometry is also important.


Quote
"A 50/60Hz transformer will tend to go into very high ferro-resonance around 150-600Hz with 5% duty cycle so look around there"
-bolt

I think 5% duty cycle might be too much current for what I'm looking for (scalar impulses).  I want really short (100ns - 800ns ON pulses of DC, ~49.5us OFF).  I don't think ferroresonance is the same effect as the Boyce TPU.  But you might be right.  I'm looking to get a rotating magnetic scalar impulse, perhaps even some sort of rotating scalar vortex, so  I want the geometry to be -perfect-.

That's why I want to build the toroid myself .. to military specs.  I want to use the good Teflon coated silver plated copper wire, mainly because Teflon is an excellent insulator/dielectric (it was invented by Dupont and used at Hanford on the Mahanattan Project).   That way, during experiments, I can drive the input primary coils up to 1kV if I want.   Furthermore, as you probably know, Silver has the best heat and electrical conductivity of any element.

So anyway, if I end up wasting my time building a good toroidal wound core, I will send you a free Arduino microcontroller and you can tell me 'told you so' , haha.   

Cheers,
Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #317 on: March 16, 2011, 05:44:16 AM »
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Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #318 on: March 16, 2011, 05:48:29 AM »
@romerouk

Wow , great explanation.  I'm really impressed with your ideas and I believe your claim of COP of 1.7.   I hope you don't mind if I write them up in a PDF.

I think the idea around here is to get a successful device which we can loop (self-runner)  ,  and then open-source the design , like Linux.

I really appreciate the time and effort you've taken to explain this to me.   I will attempt replication.     Do you have schematics of the driver circuit?  If so , are you willing to release them publicly?  (forgive me if you've already posted them).

Oh also, what's the permeability (u) of your ferrite?  Or at least a part number perhaps...  sometimes this is important, see Naudin's 2SGen where he measures hysteresis curves..

Perhaps we can get the device to COP=2.5 by utilizing an Arduino microcontroller somehow?  These are cheap (<$30), widely available, and can be programmed in Wiring -- a form of Java.

Arduino -- the $30 Microcontroller you can program in Java
http://arduino.cc/

All the best,
Feynman

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #319 on: March 16, 2011, 09:16:47 AM »
So each time you wind a half layer you jump back to the middle instead of winding back and forth?

But either way this is so simple to throw two dislike coils on a iron wire. And small too.

I be on dis kwikly. :D
Each time you wind a half layer you don't jump but continue winding back and forth.It can be done that way too but not necessary here.
The ferrite core I used is I100/25/25 – 3C90, more info about it here: http://www.surplussales.com/inductors/FerPotC/FerPotC-5.html
@Feynman
If you want to put it in a PDF please do.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #319 on: March 16, 2011, 09:16:47 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #320 on: March 16, 2011, 11:58:20 AM »
Hi Romero,

You wrote:  "I have got about 1.7 COP with the mechanical version. I have tested the solid state version too but with simillar results."
Would like to ask when you tested the solid state version what was your load?  An incandescent lamp?  I mean how did you estimate the COP of 1.6-1.7?  Not 'nitpicking' here, just wondering on a possible looping with a correct AC/DC or DC/DC converter with a 85-90% efficiency still seems feasable. 
So if you could give some more details on the solid state version, that would be great, including the coil heat issue too. With a COP of 1.6-1.7, can it work for a longer time without getting too hot?

Thanks
Gyula

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #321 on: March 16, 2011, 12:58:38 PM »
Hi Romero,

You wrote:  "I have got about 1.7 COP with the mechanical version. I have tested the solid state version too but with simillar results."
Would like to ask when you tested the solid state version what was your load?  An incandescent lamp?  I mean how did you estimate the COP of 1.6-1.7?  Not 'nitpicking' here, just wondering on a possible looping with a correct AC/DC or DC/DC converter with a 85-90% efficiency still seems feasable. 
So if you could give some more details on the solid state version, that would be great, including the coil heat issue too. With a COP of 1.6-1.7, can it work for a longer time without getting too hot?

Thanks
Gyula
Hi Gyula,
I was using a bulb as the load in both versions but not connected directly to the bridge rectifier.
I have modified a computer PSU and the output from the bridge rectifier is applied to the PSU.
This way worked best for me.I have used this trick to modify a computer PSU in other experiments and I got best results.
The coil gets very hot in about 20-25 minutes in the solid state version but the mechanical version works for about 40-50 minutes before starting to get burn smell, maybe it takes longer before is too hot because of the air flow from the rotating wheel that cools it down a bit.
No selfloop at this moment.
Another problem I found is the diodes and bridge rectifier.Most of them are not capable to forward all power resulting in at least 20-30% loses. One of the picture posted by Richard shown a board with many bridge rectifiers connected in parallel,... why is that?
I have used different diode types and the last experiments I have used BY255 with the best results so far. Every time I add another diode in parallel with an existing once I get a bit more power output without affecting the input. In my test I used 5 diodes in parallel in all setup and I runout, no more diodes :) Maybe other diodes will do better , can you suggest something?
I am not sure that dimensions of the coil are the best.In my case I get the best results at about 58-60KHz, depending of the coil used.
Driver of the coil is not standard too. Switching is not sharp enough from any electronic circuits used then I decided to use a reed activated by a coil(I got one small coil with reed inside) and that reed drives a SS DC Relay.
If I drive the relay from the same source directly, without the reed I get much less COP and the coil gets hot much faster.
I hope people understand what I am talking about.
The Magnacoaster patent has 2 diodes connected wrong, the ones comming from the coil to the output rectifier.

All the best,
Romero

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #321 on: March 16, 2011, 12:58:38 PM »
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Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #322 on: March 16, 2011, 02:59:26 PM »
Hi Romerouk,

a diode tipically has a 1V voltage drop, if you put more in parallel the drop gets smaller, a bit like if you put resistors in parallel. Diodes mean losses, especially if working at a low voltage like 12V! In fact it would be way more efficient using a smaller gauge wire for the coil that does the same magnetic field but with less amps and more voltage...

I'll write more later when I have time.

Mario

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #323 on: March 16, 2011, 03:59:49 PM »
....
Another problem I found is the diodes and bridge rectifier.Most of them are not capable to forward all power resulting in at least 20-30% loses. One of the picture posted by Richard shown a board with many bridge rectifiers connected in parallel,... why is that?
I have used different diode types and the last experiments I have used BY255 with the best results so far. Every time I add another diode in parallel with an existing once I get a bit more power output without affecting the input. In my test I used 5 diodes in parallel in all setup and I runout, no more diodes :) Maybe other diodes will do better , can you suggest something?

Hi Romero,

Fast or ultrafast type diodes are better at the frequencies you mention than the BY255 (which is a normal 50/60Hz type rectifier with trr=3usec reverse recovery time  http://maxdiode.com/Uploadpdf/BY250%20THRU%20BY255.pdf )
The reason you found better output when paralleling them is that their forward voltage drop get reduced, as Mario mentioned,  the reducement can be anything from say 60mV-80mV per diode, this is also nonlinear, in case of 5 paralleled diodes you may have got 0.7V loss instead of a single diode of say 1V.
At Farnell you may find the BY500-600 fast diode type (600V/5A, trr=200nsec price 0.191Ł one piece, order#1651065), this is much faster and has 1.35V loss at 5A (your BY255 has 1V loss at 3A) so at 3A this diode can be better if you also parallel 5 of them.

Best solution would be to use syncronous rectifiers: these are controlled MOSFET switches, see Fig. 3 in this link: http://www.national.com/vcm/national3/en_US/resources/power_designer/national_power_designer112.pdf

Will return to this later.

rgds,  Gyula


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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #323 on: March 16, 2011, 03:59:49 PM »
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Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #324 on: March 16, 2011, 05:18:42 PM »
popolibero:
"In fact it would be way more efficient using a smaller gauge wire for the coil that does the same magnetic field but with less amps and more voltage..."

Strongly disagree. What is actually needed is:

ultra low resistance across *all* the components
ultra low inductance
ultra low HF losses

This means tech along the lines of RF class
cores, litz wire windings, physical switching and so on.

This is from hands-on experience with the system.

The perfect system would consist of:
- superconductive winding that is totally compensated with according capacitance
- zero hystersis core
- 10ns class switching

gyulasun:
"Fast or ultrafast type diodes"

UF4007 rocks. And you can parallel them also...

Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #325 on: March 16, 2011, 05:56:08 PM »
Quote
- 10ns class switching

lulz how about the DRF1200  pewpew


DRF1200 MOSFET/driver hybrid

The DRF1200 MOSFET driver hybrid. This hybrid includes a high power gate driver and
the power MOSFET. It was designed to provide the system designer increased flexibility
and lowered cost over a non-integrated solution

DRIVER FEATURES
• Switching Frequency: DC TO 30MHz
• Low Pulse Width Distortion
• Single Power Supply
• 3V CMOS Schmitt Trigger Input 1V
Hysteresis
• Drivers > 3nF

MOSFET FEATURES
• Switching Frequency: DC TO 30MHz
• Switching Speed 3-4ns
• BVds = 1kV
• Ids = 13A avg.
• Rds(on) ≤ 1 Ohm
• PD = 350W

http://www.microsemi.com/datasheets/DRF1200_A.pdf

only problem is its $$200  :*(

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #325 on: March 16, 2011, 05:56:08 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #326 on: March 16, 2011, 06:02:51 PM »
Hi Romero,

Fast or ultrafast type diodes are better at the frequencies you mention than the BY255 (which is a normal 50/60Hz type rectifier with trr=3usec reverse recovery time  http://maxdiode.com/Uploadpdf/BY250%20THRU%20BY255.pdf )
The reason you found better output when paralleling them is that their forward voltage drop get reduced, as Mario mentioned,  the reducement can be anything from say 60mV-80mV per diode, this is also nonlinear, in case of 5 paralleled diodes you may have got 0.7V loss instead of a single diode of say 1V.
At Farnell you may find the BY500-600 fast diode type (600V/5A, trr=200nsec price 0.191Ł one piece, order#1651065), this is much faster and has 1.35V loss at 5A (your BY255 has 1V loss at 3A) so at 3A this diode can be better if you also parallel 5 of them.

Best solution would be to use syncronous rectifiers: these are controlled MOSFET switches, see Fig. 3 in this link: http://www.national.com/vcm/national3/en_US/resources/power_designer/national_power_designer112.pdf

Will return to this later.

rgds,  Gyula


I had seen a setup that mosfets were configured to act like diodes. It was very simple, ill see if I can find.

Maybe they could be controlled with timing.  A solid state commutator.

Thats interesting that diodes in parallel can lower the voltage drop of diodes. Never heard that till now. Im surprised that parallel works at all. If we had an led with a limit resistor, it would light when V is applied. But 2 leds paralleled with 1 resistor in series, only one would light. All due to the fact that each led is slightly off tolerance from the next. The one with the lower V drop will be the one that turns on and the other not.  Maybe it is due to the resistor and rectifier diodes are different.

How many volts are we looking at here going through the diodes? If it is high, the dif between .7 and 1 volt drops should make very little difference. But if they do work in parallel, I would have to say that amperage capabilities would help keep the diodes cool, and maybe it is heat that causes the loss. I have had some hot rectifiers before, and maybe I should go back and try increasing the amperage with parallel diodes to see if I was missing something.

Mags

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #327 on: March 16, 2011, 06:04:26 PM »
Getting way too complicated...
Small gauge wire, low current means smacking the coil very fast with high potential or a resonance pulse. SM and Willis showed very simple low component count.
Think Radio shack.
No egos, arguing or technical jargon. I am sure there are other high level ways to do this based on corporate or lab experience. But only a few of us have the simplicity on the benches that has shown the intense power of potential and not driving power. Intense potential is kinetic whereas intense power is current. Most of the experience in the these forums has been power trained and not potential trained. Sorry to step on toes here.

We are converting potential to power not the other way around.

With the correct coil setup 12vdc @ 300ma can cripple unshielded devices at a distance. Think about those physics instead of junction anomolies or device specifications.

The test I did many times in many configurations was to apply a stun gun circuit to the driver coil. The simplicity of this circuit can be made from Radio Shack. The parts come right off the rack including the little audio transformer.
Just add the Kunel patent configuration to this mix. Once again this makes and keeps it simple. SM mentioned 5khz audio frequency.

Special cores? Well the input parameters have to precise to match the core lattice makeup. This works but you are building a low grade nuclear rector in a specific operating range with a specific and precise inputs.

Otherwise this thread will go rocket science and drama like all the others.

SM talked about simplicity but was obscure. The Willis device shows simplicity. Hell, he didn't even try to hide it. He can't based on the Kunel patent.
He was so proud of what he had in the kitchen he was dancing around, jubilent in bare feet. He has a Canadian municipal contract. Good for him. A great way to get this out there is to use the government against itself. That is how giants fall...

Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #328 on: March 16, 2011, 06:19:48 PM »
Feynman:

>Switching Speed 3-4ns

good

>BVds = 1kV

on the edge

> Rds(on) ≤ 1 Ohm

bad

***

BTW One of the the reasons NOT to have many turns / high resistance winding is when you DO interrupt the current in 10ns and for some reason fail to provide preset voltage load that can absorb all the energy in an instant (low resistance!) you will see all you stuff burn to hell like romerouk did.

What you DO need is many turns (in form of litz wire strands) / low resistance (in form of few windings) / high capacitance (in form of n-filar) winding. For example litz wire in n-filar configuration. :P

These are the very basics. No follow - no candy.

Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #329 on: March 16, 2011, 06:36:41 PM »
Quote
> Rds(on) ≤ 1 Ohm

bad

Can you explain this to me why this is bad in more detail.  1 ohm is pretty low resistance, so you are talking fractions of an ohm being necessary?

 

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