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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 352792 times)

Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #210 on: March 09, 2011, 03:28:21 PM »
Hi Bruce_TPU,

this would reflect what Bedini said about Cole's finds with regards to multistrand coils. But every wire needs its own FWBR for this to work right? Have you personally measured this effect by having more output?
Also, I think adding wires is probably more efficient up to a certain amount, after that the multistrand wire gets too thick and less winds fit on the spool.

Mario

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #210 on: March 09, 2011, 03:28:21 PM »

Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #211 on: March 09, 2011, 04:20:30 PM »
Hi Bolt, you wrote:

Quote
There is no difference from a wheel going around with a magnet on it passing a coil OR have a coil with a magnet beside it and pulse it stationary. Only provision the trigger coils sits over the Bloch Wall so the coil collapse when sine shorted cuts the magnetic lines of force. The result is the same.

I have done quite a few experiments a while ago to see if I could replicate the magnacoaster setup but with no luck.
I thought he would charge the coil and then collect the collapse plus what apparently comes from the magnet (I used all of his pics I could find plus patent), while you mentioned sine wave. I can't quite envision what you said about the magnet next to the coil and the trigger coil on the bloch wall. Do you mean one control coil and one generator coil?

thanks,
Mario

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #212 on: March 09, 2011, 04:40:09 PM »
Magnacoaster used a pulsed coil of not that many turns about 100 is enough as seen in his early photos. He used a laminate steel core like transformer strips then applied 5 powerful neos one end and 1 the other. This magnet layout is VITAL.

It creates a Bloch wall which sits about 2/3 across for the length of the core. The edge of the coil sits right over the bloch wall. So you need it to slide along so you can find the sweet spot.  When the coil is pulsed the magnetic field is already on the Bloch wall and acts as a pivot point. You can not do this any other way when using such powerful neos to fight against this magnetic field would need like 400 amp pulses so you hit it right on the Bloch wall. This is called  asymmetric magnetic modulation. When the field collapses the neos flux over shoots and generates more power out of the coil than what you put into it. Now coil shorting will help here a lot. I dont know what he is doing now but if you hit the top of the rebounding neo spike with  short you can almost certainly increase the voltage perhaps 5 times more then syphon off ONLY the HF part of this signal will prevent loading to the driver. In practice you would put blocking diodes going into the coil to prevent BEMF reaching the driver then use about 0.01uF in series each side of the coil to syphon off only the HF and use as high pass filter. Then add a HF balum traffo and impedance match down before going to FWBR then into a dump cap.

Having not built it that is all i can tell you but if i was to build any of this stuff i would do this rather then piss about with bedini wheels and spinning magnets.

I also know he was using high side fet triggers because when they blew out short circuit it almost always melted his coils:)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #212 on: March 09, 2011, 04:40:09 PM »
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Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #213 on: March 09, 2011, 05:25:33 PM »
Having not built it that is all i can tell you but if i was to build any of this stuff i would do this rather then piss about with bedini wheels and spinning magnets.

So what have you built?
Spinning magnets is just a learning tool, and very good one.
You cannot write a word before you know the letters.

Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #214 on: March 09, 2011, 05:45:38 PM »
I see what you mean, I've been all solid state from the beginning until a few months ago, because there where a few concepts I needed to learn by actually having rotating magnets. But I'm  definitely going back to solid state.
I'm at work so can't make a drawing but I think I get the picture. The bloch wall sits at 1/3 on the core side closer to the 4 magnet pack. The coil starts there and has the end towards the weeker side (1 magnet). The coil when pulsed has the same magnetic orientation as the single magnet and actually strenghtens its field pulling the bloch wall a bit inside the coil. I mean if the 4 magnets are N towards the core the single magnet has S facing the core, the coil when energized has same polarity as the single magnet, correct?

Mario

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #214 on: March 09, 2011, 05:45:38 PM »
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Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #215 on: March 09, 2011, 05:53:29 PM »
So what have you built?
Spinning magnets is just a learning tool, and very good one.
You cannot write a word before you know the letters.

30 years worth of trained RF tech military, commercial,  HAM radio, DIY hobby and energy saving stuff. Im currently working with HHO. So yes i do know a few letters.

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #216 on: March 09, 2011, 05:59:02 PM »
I see what you mean, I've been all solid state from the beginning until a few months ago, because there where a few concepts I needed to learn by actually having rotating magnets. But I'm  definitely going back to solid state.
I'm at work so can't make a drawing but I think I get the picture. The bloch wall sits at 1/3 on the core side closer to the 4 magnet pack. The coil starts there and has the end towards the weeker side (1 magnet). The coil when pulsed has the same magnetic orientation as the single magnet and actually strenghtens its field pulling the bloch wall a bit inside the coil. I mean if the 4 magnets are N towards the core the single magnet has S facing the core, the coil when energized has same polarity as the single magnet, correct?

Mario

Yes that's about it. As magnacoaster is no scientist he figured out pretty quick to pulse the coil and magnet rather then using wheels. Although someone may have told him how to do it and he tried and it works. So all you have to do is find the Bloch wall and pulse it making sure the polarity is correct for the pulses then work out what frequencies work best.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #216 on: March 09, 2011, 05:59:02 PM »
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Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #217 on: March 09, 2011, 06:14:12 PM »
30 years worth of trained RF tech military, commercial,  HAM radio, DIY hobby and energy saving stuff. Im currently working with HHO. So yes i do know a few letters.

Then it should be rather easy to build solid state shorting device with COP > 1. If you are here to teach others then it works better by repeatable experiments. With your level of experience it should take much less time to build working device then to spend all this time posting and drawing schematics :)

Offline konehead

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #218 on: March 09, 2011, 06:56:14 PM »
Hi all
"rules" of successful coil-shorting are:
1) must use super low low low resistance switching. That is why reed swtiches work well (but wont last)...I was always using solid state mosfet relays in my motor for years, when I tried to coil short with them, it didnt work at all and was very confounded.
This summer, Ismael Aviso told me to do it solid state you MUST have ultra-low resistance switching and this means you can only use mosfets of high amperage basically.
Ismael actually puts 5 mosfets in paralell to get the ressitance low....solids state relays will NOT work as resistance is too high. 
Also this summer Gyula gave me  excellent bidirectional mosfet circuit, where mosfets connect at the source and gate so they swtihc AC this works very great.

rule2) ther emust be NO resistance in capacitor that fills up in coil shorting ...any resistance kills effect as you get the picture...
you shoulud have "two-stage" circuit to output power - that is cap fills up first, then cap dumps to load while at same time cap is disconnected from "source" (coils being shorted)
 I never had problems iwth extra draw (reflection) to motor when using reed swithcies - just like romerouk shows - you find that timing sweet spot - but when I made a very powerful mullergenrator with aircores, and one coil of 12  can put out 15A and 20V apiece (VA not watts) then had lots of problems of rotovertor motor going up in draw when coil-shorting.
My freind Bob Leff was testing this with me and I showed him scope shot what coil shorting looks like (oscilation rings)
and he said this is JUST LIKE TESL SPARK GAP (it is and  Ismael says same thing) - when spark gap jumps acorss upon connection, it shorts coil....and so what you do with Tesla spark gap is put "resonator" AC cap in series so we did that and "rerfleciton" (extra draw)  back to motor is totally GONE...(BIG breakthrogh!)
but you must experiment with different uf sizes - 6uf as example will be no refleciton, but lesser power let thourght...Bolt explained to me the AC cap in series works as high-bypass filter...letting the highend go through to fill cap but blcoking low end stuff that casues lenz-lug to rotor... other example is 100 uf will be lots of powe let through, but the lots of  relction etc...
The AC seris  caps also cuts lenz sw down too which also Ismael confimred to me he usesthem too...but really two-stage circuit and also high bypass cap is way you want to go for "extraction" of big power.
Ismael Shorts 5 times during peak period - and he times the shorts to occur right at tops of the OSCILLATION'S PEAKS that is the"how he does it"
I am woking on doing that now. using some 555 smitt-trigger timer cirucits that Bolt gave me which can sense, asimewave peaks and pop in the multiple shorts per peak...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #218 on: March 09, 2011, 06:56:14 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #219 on: March 09, 2011, 07:55:48 PM »
Konehead,

>>Also this summer Gyula gave me excellent bidirectional mosfet circuit, where mosfets >>connect at the source and gate so they switch AC this works very great.

Can you post this circuit here?

GL.

Offline i_ron

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #220 on: March 09, 2011, 08:33:24 PM »
Konehead,

>>Also this summer Gyula gave me excellent bidirectional mosfet circuit, where mosfets >>connect at the source and gate so they switch AC this works very great.

Can you post this circuit here?

GL.

GL, it was posted on page 11, #150

Ron

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #220 on: March 09, 2011, 08:33:24 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #221 on: March 09, 2011, 08:48:06 PM »
Hi Doug, and All,

The simplest "peak finder" that I could find was this one...

http://www.8051projects.info/blogs.asp?view=plink&id=198

Just use an extra coil as you were doing and with one transistor... voila... zero crossing. With the coil adjustable one just moves the coil until it sits squarely on top of the sine peak.

Here is what the circuit looks like, the diode D2 separates the voltage regulator from the transistor sense part of the circuit...

Q1 puts out a positive logic signal so a 555 won't work, I used a CD4047 for the one shot. The one shot then triggers the CD4093. R5 is a pot to set the pulse width.

But minimal parts!

Second pic is my RV setup

Third pic is what the signal looks like, but not shorting the coil in this shot

Ron

Offline guruji

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #222 on: March 09, 2011, 09:47:48 PM »
Magnacoaster used a pulsed coil of not that many turns about 100 is enough as seen in his early photos. He used a laminate steel core like transformer strips then applied 5 powerful neos one end and 1 the other. This magnet layout is VITAL.

It creates a Bloch wall which sits about 2/3 across for the length of the core. The edge of the coil sits right over the bloch wall. So you need it to slide along so you can find the sweet spot.  When the coil is pulsed the magnetic field is already on the Bloch wall and acts as a pivot point. You can not do this any other way when using such powerful neos to fight against this magnetic field would need like 400 amp pulses so you hit it right on the Bloch wall. This is called  asymmetric magnetic modulation. When the field collapses the neos flux over shoots and generates more power out of the coil than what you put into it. Now coil shorting will help here a lot. I dont know what he is doing now but if you hit the top of the rebounding neo spike with  short you can almost certainly increase the voltage perhaps 5 times more then syphon off ONLY the HF part of this signal will prevent loading to the driver. In practice you would put blocking diodes going into the coil to prevent BEMF reaching the driver then use about 0.01uF in series each side of the coil to syphon off only the HF and use as high pass filter. Then add a HF balum traffo and impedance match down before going to FWBR then into a dump cap.

Having not built it that is all i can tell you but if i was to build any of this stuff i would do this rather then piss about with bedini wheels and spinning magnets.

I also know he was using high side fet triggers because when they blew out short circuit it almost always melted his coils:)

Hi Bolt can you please post a diagram of this?
Thanks

Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #223 on: March 09, 2011, 10:02:27 PM »
Guys, I don't know if you think it's off topic but I have a few magnacoaster pics to have a visual of the setup both mechanical and solid state, can't see the magnetic polarity of course, but still...

Let me know if you want me to post them here.

Mario

Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #224 on: March 09, 2011, 10:04:30 PM »
Quote

It creates a Bloch wall which sits about 2/3 across for the length of the core. The edge of the coil sits right over the bloch wall. So you need it to slide along so you can find the sweet spot.  When the coil is pulsed the magnetic field is already on the Bloch wall and acts as a pivot point. You can not do this any other way when using such powerful neos to fight against this magnetic field would need like 400 amp pulses so you hit it right on the Bloch wall. This is called  asymmetric magnetic modulation. When the field collapses the neos flux over shoots and generates more power out of the coil than what you put into it. Now coil shorting will help here a lot. I dont know what he is doing now but if you hit the top of the rebounding neo spike with  short you can almost certainly increase the voltage perhaps 5 times more then syphon off ONLY the HF part of this signal will prevent loading to the driver. In practice you would put blocking diodes going into the coil to prevent BEMF reaching the driver then use about 0.01uF in series each side of the coil to syphon off only the HF and use as high pass filter. Then add a HF balum traffo and impedance match down before going to FWBR then into a dump cap.

Wow bolt ,great description.  Does this have anything in common with Groundloop's solid state orbo or Naudin's 2sGen?    It sounds like modulating the hysteresis curve using neodymium magnets.

Naudin 2SGen
http://jnaudin.free.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm

Also lol @ 'piss about with Bedini motors' hahaha

 

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