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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 352783 times)

Online ramset

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #195 on: March 08, 2011, 08:17:22 PM »
I don't know if everyone saw this new sim

From user Haither at  here   http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10467.msg276677#new
The first sentence says it all
Quote:

Hi,
since the new algorithm of Prof. Turtur came out which promised the possibility to extract energy from the vacuum with simple parts i saw the need to make an easy-to-use software in which every user could enter their values for coil, magnet and capacitor and let the software determine the energy output
----------------------
As an Addendum
MarkSnoswell
said there may be "issues"

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #195 on: March 08, 2011, 08:17:22 PM »

Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #196 on: March 08, 2011, 09:33:11 PM »
Guys, when I chop the hall signal with the 555 circuit to get more shortings per sine peak the output decreases. I mean, from what I see one big bang per peak gives more output than many shorts per peak, this I see from what I collect in the output cap. Of course I've tried sweeping the frequency and duty cycle of the 555, even to match the ringing frequency of the coil, still no luck.
Anyone else getting the same?

Mario

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #197 on: March 08, 2011, 10:44:30 PM »
Hi Mario,

Would you mind showing your 555 schematic and one or two pictures of your setup to those members here with building ability.
 I wonder what is the width of your chopping pulse and if it is also adjustable which width gives the highest output in the output capacitor.

Thanks for reporting your findings.

Gyula

PS if you do not wish to show your schematic, that is also fine of course.

Guys, when I chop the hall signal with the 555 circuit to get more shortings per sine peak the output decreases. I mean, from what I see one big bang per peak gives more output than many shorts per peak, this I see from what I collect in the output cap. Of course I've tried sweeping the frequency and duty cycle of the 555, even to match the ringing frequency of the coil, still no luck.
Anyone else getting the same?

Mario
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 11:08:29 PM by gyulasun »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #197 on: March 08, 2011, 10:44:30 PM »
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Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #198 on: March 08, 2011, 11:29:38 PM »
Hi Gyula,

right now I don't have the whole circuit on paper like it is right now, but I've attached the basic schematic of the 555 circuit I've been using over the last  few years for many solid state experiments.
I said hall but right now I went from the wheel to solid state so I'm using one 555 circuit to drive the bottom coil (attached pic) at resonance with a cap to simulate the rotating magnet, it has 100 feet og 18AWG wire. On top of that is the big coil which I filled up with 23AWG I believe. Both cores are ferrite.
Since the 555 signal is hitting the power coil at sine peak for resonance I can use the same signal to drive the two mosfets that short the generator coil, convenient right? ;D
To chop that signal I send it to the trigger input of a second 555 circuit and send this signal to the fet driver. You asked about the width, I went from a few % (very narrow) to 100% duty cycle which is like just using the first main pulse. Whatever I do, the output cap has more voltage with just the one main pulse, when I start chopping, whatever frequency, output gets lower. I have more spikes but lower amplitude.

I use a third 555 circuit fed from a separate supply to discharge the cap to the little 240/110 - 12V toroid transformer.

Mario
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 11:57:24 PM by popolibero »

Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #199 on: March 08, 2011, 11:33:48 PM »
Ooops sorry, the size of the pictures was way too high, are you having trouble watching them?

I just resized and reuploaded them...
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 12:02:14 AM by popolibero »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #199 on: March 08, 2011, 11:33:48 PM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #200 on: March 08, 2011, 11:39:28 PM »
Hi all

wow the sim seems to be promising with the continuously shorting.

I will perhaps try with my signal generator to see what i can do.

For info in can get a nice sine trace with a STINGO from Sucahyo.

 But my question is.    is it necessary to use a solid state oscillator in order to produce a nice sine wave and than try to to short it to get more power out.?

What i try to test is  can we decrease the Lenz effect on a generator by shorting coil


OK and for tonight i made a totally off topic test to refresh my mind, but perhaos interesting to some of you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-38WBsPcdyk

Good luck at all

Laurent

Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #201 on: March 09, 2011, 02:01:44 AM »
Ok gyus, lets quit playing ;)

My testrig is small very low power pulse motor.

Currents status is:
INPUT: 6.55V 15mA = 0.1W
OUTPUT: 0.024W (efficent up to 160V, maximal usable output at 250V)
BEST EFFICENCY: 24%

It must be said that output seems to have zero effect on the input and rotor speed. So it is only 24% but it's totally free. The number is carefully calculated and tested over and over and I found it very good for such low powered mechanical design made from crap lying around. I could extract much more in addition to that 24% from that motor-generator when using additional regular generator coils that put some load on the rotor. But this is not the point, point is the timeline of shorting process:

0ms unused generator pulse (2ms)
2ms drive pulse from battery* (6ms)
8ms backspike (0.1ms)
8.1ms resonant ringing (~6ms)

*yes, this means I short the drive coil, not separate gen coil

Explained this means that first starts the sine wave from natural generation from approaching magnet. Then I connect the battery for 6ms, this drives the disc. After disconnecting the battery there is sparking at the reed, duration is only 0.1ms, most of the energy gets dissipated because of too much microsparking. This can be seen on the rectified shot - no usable energy in backspike - it just gets radiated all over the place. Then resonant ringing kicks in, excited by sparking. Duration is same as drive pulse. And when viewing rectifier and cap shots under load we see that cap charging duration for given load is around 0.4ms.
I have no reference point to sync all the shots but it is clear that cap is being charged only by resonant ringing.
For me the point is that there is real energy in resonant ringing and I doubt that shorting will give any meaningful output when coil does not get excited at its natural resonance. Likely all the hell breaks loose if some modern Tesla shorts also the peaks of resonant ringing. I have seen random hits when amplitude is much larger than regular.
Works just like hydraulic shockwave. Shock the shockwave and for real kicks...

This explains the spark gaps in almost every claimed OU design - no spark - no ringing - no good stuff.
Maybe it is possible with ultra-fast transistors also, I'm no specialist on this.
I tried with RF transistor and got nothing. i_ron also got nothing so far.

Maybe is time for Gyula to step in with some real-world self-made example and scope shots, he seems to know the tech stuff. I would be really glad to avoid spark gaps and such because of RF emission and unstable operation.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #201 on: March 09, 2011, 02:01:44 AM »
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Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #202 on: March 09, 2011, 07:30:16 AM »
You might be able to use my 555 circuits.  I published them for someone else.


Offline hakware

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #203 on: March 09, 2011, 07:48:51 AM »
You might be able to use my 555 circuits.  I published them for someone else.

Yea this is the circuit I made the other day.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #203 on: March 09, 2011, 07:48:51 AM »
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Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #204 on: March 09, 2011, 10:55:07 AM »
Ok, thanks. But the problem is I already tried transistor-based switching and did get only wery sad low amplitude spikes, nothing compared to resonant ringig. So maybe you could post real-word scope shots from such circuits output and efficency results?

Online ramset

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #205 on: March 09, 2011, 11:21:51 AM »
Hackware
Please risize your images,we have to walk three blocks to read the page.
Thanks
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #205 on: March 09, 2011, 11:21:51 AM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #206 on: March 09, 2011, 11:35:31 AM »
Hi All,

If you know your base frequency then you can divide it into quarters to find the frequency that will cut the peaks. So if your base frequency is 60hz, 60hz*4=240hz. 240hz will cut the 60hz signal 4 times 2 at the zero points and 2 at the +/- peaks. You could go 2 then just shift the phase also. So if you spike at 240hz to cascade at that peak it would be at 240hz*4hz=960hz. It will take a lot of phase tweaking or some kind of DSP chip to get it accurate at the next cascade.

Here is a example using circuit simulator (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/) :

Doesn't have to be a sine wave input, a square wave signal will also work in the sim.

This is the best post I saw.Thank you, this confirms my old experience with 2x resonant frequency driving circuit. The hard part is to direct energy flow where it is needed, it tries to escape every wire.

Offline forest

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #207 on: March 09, 2011, 11:41:43 AM »
This reminds me INNOVATION_STATION talk about one frequency interrupted.
http://www.youtube.com/user/innovationstation?blend=1&ob=0#p/u/17/068l0trm6TI

Isn't that just radio waves ? Do we catch radio waves ?

Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #208 on: March 09, 2011, 01:44:58 PM »
What i try to test is  can we decrease the Lenz effect on a generator by shorting coil

For starters just think about collecting backspike from drive coil.

For example:

drive pulse - duration x, current y, voltage z
backspike - duration x, current y, voltage -z (minus losses)

Nothing interesting here. But when one does that:

drive pulse - duration x, current y, voltage z
backspike - duration x/100, current y, voltage -z*100 (minus losses)

100 times less effect on the rotor.

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #209 on: March 09, 2011, 02:16:15 PM »
Or as I have said, build a coil out of parallel pieces of wire, thus reducing losses because of lower resistance, and multiply shorted coil effect power by number of strands within said coil!

 

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