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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 355816 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #165 on: March 06, 2011, 10:37:08 PM »
Hi Laurent,

With only using one FET the shorting cannot work because when the FET is supposed to be in the OFF state, its inherent body diode between the drain-source electrodes is still there and just clamps the AC half wave which is with forward voltage polarity to it, ok? This is why two FETs are used in series opposing direction with respect to the body diodes: whenever one of the diodes would be forward biased by the AC waveform, the other body diode would surely be with the reverse polarity to that AC waveform, hence no current can flow when the FETs should be in the OFF state.

Ok on your finding the voltage stays constant regardless of the rpm. I believe, for the time being, you do not have to bother with this, it is not sure at all whether this is going to be a drawback.

Maybe using several generator coils around the rotor is one way to increase output if you can find coil positions where the drag is the smallest like Romero hit on such position + reed switch position. It would be interesting to see in his shown setup whether using some more pick-up coils with their own reed switches, the input current would have remained also unchanged? 
In your case first I think a coil position ought to be found where the drag is at a minimum and you use the two FET shorting.  One thing I do not get with your latest shown setup is why you did not receive sine wave output when the FETs are OFF?  Or you receive it but just did not show it? You have received so nice sine wave output shown in your earlier videos and also you showed the shorting at the wave peaks caused 3 times as high spikes than the sine wave was. This is what you may wish to achive first with the two FET shortings, instead of the reed switch shortings.

MAybe using a coil with higher number of turns and making taps on it can give you more flexibility.  I know the cross over air core coils are a bit expensive to buy, maybe you have some left from the Ossie motor tests? (if I recall correctly, that is... :)
By the way you may wish to insert some ferrite rod piece into an air core coil available from your junk box to increase output voltage so that you should not increase the number of turns which would increase copper loss. No problem for the cogging it will cause in a single coil case, later using some more coils also with cores the cogging can be minimized.

Thanks,  Gyula



Hi Gyula

thanks for input

now we are OK on the basic circuit. Just for info i tried the same circuit with only 1 FET and it doesn 't give good results.

So now i am trying to test different coils and core to see if i can increase the "produced shortage voltage" and the spectrum seems to be really large. as each system produces very different results . But so far the constant direction remains.
 For a given system, the shorted pulsed  produced voltage stays constant at all rotor speed.
 So to be very clear ,if the speed of the rotor increases, you get more pulses of the same voltage, but never  a higher voltage.

OK it is only the beginning and perhaps tomorrow will bring better ideas

Good luck at all

Laurent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #165 on: March 06, 2011, 10:37:08 PM »

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #166 on: March 06, 2011, 11:10:58 PM »
This is how the sinewave looks with reed and 0.47uf for the shorting.
I have more coils now and still the system remains not affected even if I leave all coils shorted.
The system charges the running battery but still not good enough to run from a capacitor.
I can get the system to accelerate when shorting the coils too.The arrangement of the coils arround the rotor is very important too.
Now I collect the power from all coils in a capacitor and dump it back to the battery once for every revolution.
Another small discovery is that if I use a 240/12v transformer and collect the power from the MOT fan coils to the 240v side and use the 12 volt side with a rectifier  to charge the battery it charges better than damping higher voltage and low amperage.

Offline woopy

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #167 on: March 06, 2011, 11:13:11 PM »
Hi Bolt

I am ready for take off ,simply send me the soft or proposal and we go
 Thank's

Hi guyla

 i am trying all the stuff i have , and has i sayd all works but at different ENERGY INPUT  PRICE . But what disturb me is that DOUG sayd that with the HIGH BYPASS AC cap it should decrease the LENZ effect what i can not detect at this point of my research. Any idea ?

Good night

Laurent


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #167 on: March 06, 2011, 11:13:11 PM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #168 on: March 06, 2011, 11:18:19 PM »

Hi  Romero

Bravo

and of course i am sure you will produce a video of this

and thanks

Laurent

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #169 on: March 06, 2011, 11:25:14 PM »

... all works but at different ENERGY INPUT  PRICE . But what disturb me is that DOUG sayd that with the HIGH BYPASS AC cap it should decrease the LENZ effect what i can not detect at this point of my research. Any idea ?
...

Well, I am afraid you have to ask Doug on that details, sorry. In theory it sounds good that you use only the spikes energy and 'suppress' most of the generated sine wave coming from the coil.
Also maybe Romero could also comment whether he found a position for the coil and the reed where there was a minimal drag, first without the series capacitor, then with no drag with the series cap as this latter result turns out from his measurement video.

Gyula

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #169 on: March 06, 2011, 11:25:14 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #170 on: March 06, 2011, 11:43:22 PM »
Hi Romero,

Thanks for the update, very good progress indeed. I wonder if your other coils are similar to the the one taken from the fan motor?
Also, when you found the output from the coils is still not enough to run from a capacitor then you had shorting on BOTH sine wave peaks or only on a single single peak like in the scope shot?
Good idea to use the 240V/12V transformer for reducing the output voltage, this inherently does a kind of impedance matching. A transformer with several secondary coils would be even better of course. You would have to find the best position for the output coils to maintain an induced voltage phase coherence so that the individual voltage amplitudes would not reduce each other too much.
Final 'nagging' for now:  the best cap value is the 0.47uF you still use? If yes, then probably you hit on the correct one that 'fits' to your coil(s).

Thanks,  Gyula

This is how the sinewave looks with reed and 0.47uf for the shorting.
I have more coils now and still the system remains not affected even if I leave all coils shorted.
The system charges the running battery but still not good enough to run from a capacitor.
I can get the system to accelerate when shorting the coils too.The arrangement of the coils arround the rotor is very important too.
Now I collect the power from all coils in a capacitor and dump it back to the battery once for every revolution.
Another small discovery is that if I use a 240/12v transformer and collect the power from the MOT fan coils to the 240v side and use the 12 volt side with a rectifier  to charge the battery it charges better than damping higher voltage and low amperage.

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #171 on: March 06, 2011, 11:48:47 PM »
When I position the coil I always have it shorted then move it to the position where looks that the system is not affected at all.The reed position is adjusted after the coil is in place and watching the oscope to get the short closer to the wave peak.
Having 2 reed switches close to each other will give more shorts resulting more power.
I will post another video soon but now testing all different ideeas it looks like a mess and is difficult to explain what is there.
I am also trying with different type of coil, thicker wire, but for that the reed is not good enough, the spark produced is too much and damages the reed in few seconds.
The solid state circuit to do the  shorting recomended by Doug is not working properly now.I have tried all circuits found and presented here.
Just having the circuit connected without having the hall closer to the rotor will increase the power creating something like a parallel sine wave but not spikes as the reed does.
Trying a solid state AC relay with only the 240v side connected will increase the power but no spikes.
The voltage jumps from arround 40v without anything connected to the coil, just the meter, it goes to arround 72v just by connecting the 240v terminals from the SS Relay. 
Loking at the oscope I can see that when adding the SS Relay I get a parallel sinewave, this is strange for me at this moment.
This is the effect I was talking about in a previous post, PARALLEL SINE WAVE.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #171 on: March 06, 2011, 11:48:47 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #172 on: March 07, 2011, 12:09:58 AM »
Can you show a scope shot of the 'parallel' sinewave?

MAybe you have one of the FETs damaged in the meantime and now you find the shorting with them is not ok? (I apologize for asking this, lol)

It is intersting that if you used the two FETs with the reed switch controlling their gate-source from a 9V (or 12V) separate battery, you still have not had good results? I mean this circuit:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10398.msg276701#msg276701

Because Doug wrote last October or November he had success with that circuit as a substitution for the direct reed shorting and now he moved to the FET driver chip with Hall sensor control to get rid fully of the reed.

A solid state AC relay normally have several Ohms ON resistance unless you have a more expensive type, if yes, perhaps this explain the unfavorable result with it?  Doug emphesized the ON resistance of the switch should be the minimum possible.

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #173 on: March 07, 2011, 12:51:10 AM »
@gyulasun
Picture with the wave when the SS AC Relay is connected.When nothing connected I get a normal single line sinewave.The voltage is almost double when the AC SS relay is connected.As I said before, I connect only the 240v side nothing on the input of the relay.I have more than one AC SS Relays and all are doing the same, normaly the system should not do anything without input to the relay.
Picture with the both relays I use, AC for shorting and DC to dump the charge from the capacitor, once for every rotation.
I hope there are some ather people to test what I am saying, I am very courious to see...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #173 on: March 07, 2011, 12:51:10 AM »
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Offline IotaYodi

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #174 on: March 07, 2011, 01:07:47 AM »
Quote
Loking at the oscope I can see that when adding the SS Relay I get a parallel sinewave
Dont know if this applys to your problem but I thought Id throw it out.

The sum of multiple phasors produces another phasor. That is because the sum of sine waves with the same frequency is also a sine wave with that frequency:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasor

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #175 on: March 07, 2011, 01:14:53 AM »
hi All,
great results.

If you have problems with reed relays burning up,
try to put 2 or more in SERIES.

This way more  switches open and this will give a faster dI/dt
current change and thus also higher induction voltages and will
distribute the spark across multiple reed relays, so the sparking
on one reed relay might be reduced.

Good luck.

P.S. Why are you all just trying to do it at the sine peak ?
You can just chop the current all the time, this will give much
more spikes and does not need any synchronisation.


Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #175 on: March 07, 2011, 01:14:53 AM »
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Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #176 on: March 07, 2011, 01:33:21 AM »
hi All,
great results.

If you have problems with reed relays burning up,
try to put 2 or more in SERIES.

This way more  switches open and this will give a faster dI/dt
current change and thus also higher induction voltages and will
distribute the spark across multiple reed relays, so the sparking
on one reed relay might be reduced.

Good luck.

P.S. Why are you all just trying to do it at the sine peak ?
You can just chop the current all the time, this will give much
more spikes and does not need any synchronisation.


Regards, Stefan.
Personally I do the shorting at the sine peak just because I can get the maximum power, but you are right, I have tested with 3 reed switches positioned differently and I do get more spikes.
The reed switching is good enough for testing only but for a long lasting device must use solid state components.
I have also tried to short the wave all the way,multiple times, positive and negative using a 555  driver and i've got nice results.
I am working on a different setup too where one coil(few turns) is shorting the main coil and I get power from it plus extra flux to accelerate the rotor. Syncronising the 2 coils is a very important factor.
I will talk about this ideea once I finish the other things on my list.
I am close to have it running just with a capacitor, time is the only problem I have... but soon

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #177 on: March 07, 2011, 01:43:08 AM »
This is how the sinewave looks with reed and 0.47uf for the shorting.
I have more coils now and still the system remains not affected even if I leave all coils shorted.
The system charges the running battery but still not good enough to run from a capacitor.
I can get the system to accelerate when shorting the coils too.The arrangement of the coils arround the rotor is very important too.
Now I collect the power from all coils in a capacitor and dump it back to the battery once for every revolution.
Another small discovery is that if I use a 240/12v transformer and collect the power from the MOT fan coils to the 240v side and use the 12 volt side with a rectifier  to charge the battery it charges better than damping higher voltage and low amperage.

You are a long way from looping yet and i doubt you can do this with a simple set up. If you read my posts I have been involved with this coil shorting now for quite some time and understand many of the pitfalls and how to vastly improve system gains.

When dumping load caps do not allow them to drop below 61.8% of charge capacity. This is a Fibonacci ratio and very important in nature and electronics. You will find from 61.8% to 100% will charge recover a lot quicker.

You use of reverse transformer is for impedance matching. When you get into this in more detail you MUST treat everything with the eyes of an RF engineer. Series caps provides some degree of high pass filter but usually requires Pi Tank matching and tuning into a load for max power transfer. The 0.47uF cap will also need to be tuned into different coil setups.  The aim here is to increase JUST large enough to start seeing some lugging then back off to a smaller size then match everything else after this into the load.

 When you know the value of your dump cap in uF or Farads you can calculate a start voltage and end voltage versus time scoped and calculate the joules you have recovered in your dump cap. Its the best way of finding out if you circuit is heading towards OU long before you think about looping.

BTW soon when you start adding larger coils the Radiant Energy will create fuse your reeds shut so then you will have to use the 2 fets shorting circuit.

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #178 on: March 07, 2011, 01:55:16 AM »
When I position the coil I always have it shorted then move it to the position where looks that the system is not affected at all.The reed position is adjusted after the coil is in place and watching the oscope to get the short closer to the wave peak.
Having 2 reed switches close to each other will give more shorts resulting more power.
I will post another video soon but now testing all different ideeas it looks like a mess and is difficult to explain what is there.
I am also trying with different type of coil, thicker wire, but for that the reed is not good enough, the spark produced is too much and damages the reed in few seconds.
The solid state circuit to do the  shorting recomended by Doug is not working properly now.I have tried all circuits found and presented here.
Just having the circuit connected without having the hall closer to the rotor will increase the power creating something like a parallel sine wave but not spikes as the reed does.
Trying a solid state AC relay with only the 240v side connected will increase the power but no spikes.
The voltage jumps from arround 40v without anything connected to the coil, just the meter, it goes to arround 72v just by connecting the 240v terminals from the SS Relay. 
Loking at the oscope I can see that when adding the SS Relay I get a parallel sinewave, this is strange for me at this moment.
This is the effect I was talking about in a previous post, PARALLEL SINE WAVE.

As per my posts please read them as i know your problems and it will save you DAYS or  MONTHS of heart ache! As explained already i knew you was going to reach a point where your reed switches fuse together. Radiant Energy is very destructive in this form and you notice a very strange looking arc and color!

IMPORTANT you can not use SS AC relays they are basically triacs and only switch on and off at zero point crossing. You need DC solid state BUT most  are slow and have snubbers which slow down gate speed as usually switching within 5mS is not normally a requirement for DC loads.

Multiple shorting at sine wave peaks adds more power. Do this 5 times or 20 or even 100 times on top of the sine then you will see a MASSIVE amount of highly disruptive power its very hard to control. For this to work properly you must use fast inverter switch IGBT's driven by an AVR is best with each shorting spike down to uS's.

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #179 on: March 07, 2011, 02:05:29 AM »
Hi Bolt

I am ready for take off ,simply send me the soft or proposal and we go
 Thank's

Hi guyla

 i am trying all the stuff i have , and has i sayd all works but at different ENERGY INPUT  PRICE . But what disturb me is that DOUG sayd that with the HIGH BYPASS AC cap it should decrease the LENZ effect what i can not detect at this point of my research. Any idea ?

Good night

Laurent

There is no problem having a very slight lugging so it is just perceptible to each coil. This makes sure you are collecting as much power as possible from the coil shorts where the high pass filter is just starting to edge the bandwidth down into the carrier frequency.  Collectively you may have a 10 coil generator each collecting 50 watts each. Now you have 500 watts from the coils. The total i/p maybe 100 watts so you have a 400 watt OU device. COP 4 is typical of these systems and indeed I understand that Kone can now build them at COP 8 and higher when you tweak everything to a fine art.

I personally don't really like mechanical generators. EVERYTHING you learn here about shorting coils can apply to solid state and yes its VERY close to Magnacoaster!

If you can program then you already know what is required here to short the sine wave peaks. I don't have any code to give. Use a hard interrupt as wave sampler. Either use a PD or opto as a sine sniffer and set a delay timer to put you on top of the sine or JUST BTDC then send pulses out on pin 5 or whatever to the shorting pair fets. That's it in a nutshell.

 

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