Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 517893
  • *Total Topics: 15438
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 3
  • *Guests: 10
  • *Total: 13

Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 352917 times)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #135 on: February 28, 2011, 07:42:34 PM »

Offline woopy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 608
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #136 on: February 28, 2011, 11:55:17 PM »
Hi Gyula and all

Thanks for advice and i am looking for the best fet.

But more important at this point is to make some order in the research.

Because the general setup is really interesting and after 3 days of full scrumble upon i begin to see a way to go on.

So my aim is to replicate exactly what ROMERO UK did in his video, where he can light 70 LED very brightrly with only one REED and one 47 uf 250 volt cap  and this WITHOUT LOOSING RPM.

So  far from today, is that i replicated this and finally i could get my (all that i have at disposal for the moment)  13 led IN SERIE to very good lighting.
But the price for this is a slight increase in current draw on the motor.

So the aim of the AC cap (as per Konead) is to suppreseed the lugging of Mister Lenz. So i think that, the MATCHING  of the coil + core + cap + magnet rotorspeed  is at atmost importance.

And for today  when the rotor is spinning (without the shorting the coil ) it gives 3 volts after the FWBR  (and the 13 leds in serie does of course even get a sign of light) and  as soon as i connect the shorting circuit with the 2 mosfet , the same led ramp light very happily and the the voltage is about 36 volts.

Very interesting

i will make some thinking on this subject to prepare a video

good luck at all

laurent


Offline scratchrobot

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 401
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #137 on: March 01, 2011, 07:19:21 AM »
Hi Gyula and all

Thanks for advice and i am looking for the best fet.

But more important at this point is to make some order in the research.

Because the general setup is really interesting and after 3 days of full scrumble upon i begin to see a way to go on.

So my aim is to replicate exactly what ROMERO UK did in his video, where he can light 70 LED very brightrly with only one REED and one 47 uf 250 volt cap  and this WITHOUT LOOSING RPM.

So  far from today, is that i replicated this and finally i could get my (all that i have at disposal for the moment)  13 led IN SERIE to very good lighting.
But the price for this is a slight increase in current draw on the motor.

So the aim of the AC cap (as per Konead) is to suppreseed the lugging of Mister Lenz. So i think that, the MATCHING  of the coil + core + cap + magnet rotorspeed  is at atmost importance.

And for today  when the rotor is spinning (without the shorting the coil ) it gives 3 volts after the FWBR  (and the 13 leds in serie does of course even get a sign of light) and  as soon as i connect the shorting circuit with the 2 mosfet , the same led ramp light very happily and the the voltage is about 36 volts.

Very interesting

i will make some thinking on this subject to prepare a video

good luck at all

laurent

Thanks for sharing your experiments Very interesting  :)

Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #137 on: March 01, 2011, 07:19:21 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline yssuraxu_697

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #138 on: March 01, 2011, 10:53:20 AM »
Woopy, you have good nose :)

With reasonable confidence I can say that to access this "effect" one needs very sharp gradients and/or exiting coil at its resonance frequency,

Easiest way to hit resonant frequency is to use spark gap, reed in this application works as spark gap. Thats why people have seen good results with reed and virtually nothing with transistors etc. Ordinary solid state components when driven in ordinary way are slow and transparent for HF and just do not work in this application.

For those who are trying to make solid state version, good choice would be russian "kacher" type circuit. There solid state components are "shockwave" driven and give desired effects. (NB! Kacher can and will affect your health, strong RF emission! NB!)

I dont see how one can easily combine very sharp gradients at exactly right frequency with rotary version and transistors etc. So I would bet on heavy duty reed or some other component exibiting wide spectrum sharp gradient "white noise" emission (and physical breaking of circuit).

Also series AC cap is a must. When there is AC cap in series, Ohm and Kirchhoff do not apply. And thats already half-done deal.

Also forget about directly measuring amps out of this contraption! This power is only good for driving not resistive loads (or charging acid batteries)! To use it for resistive load you must first transform it.

And as always, trust no one, follow your instincts, progress only after replicating basic effects :)

Offline yssuraxu_697

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #139 on: March 01, 2011, 01:02:35 PM »
Look attach. Page 1055 (3), Fig. 6 - looks familiar :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #139 on: March 01, 2011, 01:02:35 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4021
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #140 on: March 01, 2011, 02:05:17 PM »
Hi Laurent,

From the RSonline link above here is two 200V FET types I would choose for tinkering:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6887153   

and
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6886973

Of course there are many other types, these are maybe the cheaper ones, with still good parameters.

Yes I agree you try to establish a working plan / order. If you wish to replicate Romero setup, you have to use at least 24 white LEDs in series (I assume his 72 LEDs are connected as 24 in series, he has 3 such series line and the 3 lines are paralleled.  This means that the lowest forward voltage needed for lighting the 24 LEDs in series is 24 x 3.2V=76.8V or so. (White LEDs has a forward voltage range between 2.9 - 3.4V to conduct current.)
By the way,  this means that under this voltage level, there is NO current consumption from the generator coil. So the best loading test would be what Stefan suggested first with a low power incandescent light bulb  (it has no forward voltage threshold like any LED has). Of course such a light bulb could be substituted by a power resistor of appropiate value.

Unfortunately, the fan motor coil you also use has a big DC resistance coil and when you try to load it, the current drops voltage from the output and it heats the wire, you cannot use it for LED or bulb driving. You measure 3V after the full wave bridge, while your unloaded AC output is about 80V peak to peak which is about 28V effective value...  The only solution is to make another gen coil with thicker wire, to bring down the several hundred inner DC resistance to under 10 Ohm or less. 

Gyula

Hi Gyula and all

Thanks for advice and i am looking for the best fet.

But more important at this point is to make some order in the research.

Because the general setup is really interesting and after 3 days of full scrumble upon i begin to see a way to go on.

So my aim is to replicate exactly what ROMERO UK did in his video, where he can light 70 LED very brightrly with only one REED and one 47 uf 250 volt cap  and this WITHOUT LOOSING RPM.

So  far from today, is that i replicated this and finally i could get my (all that i have at disposal for the moment)  13 led IN SERIE to very good lighting.
But the price for this is a slight increase in current draw on the motor.

So the aim of the AC cap (as per Konead) is to suppreseed the lugging of Mister Lenz. So i think that, the MATCHING  of the coil + core + cap + magnet rotorspeed  is at atmost importance.

And for today  when the rotor is spinning (without the shorting the coil ) it gives 3 volts after the FWBR  (and the 13 leds in serie does of course even get a sign of light) and  as soon as i connect the shorting circuit with the 2 mosfet , the same led ramp light very happily and the the voltage is about 36 volts.

Very interesting

i will make some thinking on this subject to prepare a video

good luck at all

laurent

Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4021
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #141 on: March 01, 2011, 11:19:27 PM »
Hi Laurent and All,

I think you have to see this new schematic drawn by Doug Konzen today because it shows the series non-polar capacitor in series with the AC input of the diode bridge and NOT in series with the switch that does the shorting.

This should make a difference in the Lenz drag as per bolt's explanation in the previous page, namely the series capacitor forms a high pass filter. This should mean that the induced sine wave is mostly supposed to be blocked by this capacitor (i.e. its capacitive reactance is chosen as a relatively high impedance at the sine wave frequency), however the spikes created by the shortings mainly contain harmonics for which this capacitor should show low impedance to be able to pass them towards the full wave bridge.
If I recall correctly, Romero used his 0.47uF capacitor in series with the reed switch.  And schematics so far from Doug Konzen showed the capacitor in series with the switch too. 
I think the capacitor in series with the input of the AC bridge makes more sense if the role of the capacitor is indeed working as a high pass filter.

This needs to tested of course.

rgds,  Gyula

PS The schematic also shows a MOSFET driver IC, capable for very fast switching. You find them under different brand names like TC4422 or MIC4422 etc.  According to Doug Konzen, this driver circuit works nicely, controlled by a normal Hall sensor. The RF filter shown in series with the gates of the FETs are small ferrite beads with a few turns (kind of choke coils), you can replace them with series 47 or 56 Ohm 1/8 or 1/4 Watt resistors. The goal is to prevent spurious oscillations in the gate circuit should it happen.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #141 on: March 01, 2011, 11:19:27 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline woopy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 608
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #142 on: March 02, 2011, 12:21:12 AM »
Hi Gyula

Thanks a lot for this info about Doug shematic

will study and try it ASAP

for today, i could replicate Romero uk result  and i tried LED in serie and in parallel i will report the result because it is not so simple and i want to be sure before saying anything

For info i tried a bigger coil with much less impedance and also inductance with good results also ,i will go on the testing ( see the pix with very strong and probably too large pulse at the top and bottom of the sine wave)

good luck at all

Laurent


Offline e2matrix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1835
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #143 on: March 02, 2011, 02:15:32 AM »
Woopy, you have good nose :)

With reasonable confidence I can say that to access this "effect" one needs very sharp gradients and/or exiting coil at its resonance frequency,

Easiest way to hit resonant frequency is to use spark gap, reed in this application works as spark gap. Thats why people have seen good results with reed and virtually nothing with transistors etc. Ordinary solid state components when driven in ordinary way are slow and transparent for HF and just do not work in this application.

For those who are trying to make solid state version, good choice would be russian "kacher" type circuit. There solid state components are "shockwave" driven and give desired effects. (NB! Kacher can and will affect your health, strong RF emission! NB!)

I dont see how one can easily combine very sharp gradients at exactly right frequency with rotary version and transistors etc. So I would bet on heavy duty reed or some other component exibiting wide spectrum sharp gradient "white noise" emission (and physical breaking of circuit).

Also series AC cap is a must. When there is AC cap in series, Ohm and Kirchhoff do not apply. And thats already half-done deal.

Also forget about directly measuring amps out of this contraption! This power is only good for driving not resistive loads (or charging acid batteries)! To use it for resistive load you must first transform it.

And as always, trust no one, follow your instincts, progress only after replicating basic effects :)

Totally agree with everything you said as part of why this works with a reed switch but will be difficult using solid state.  I'm thinking now about a possible cam setup with multiple automotive type points and larger coils. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #143 on: March 02, 2011, 02:15:32 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Arthurs

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 79
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #144 on: March 02, 2011, 04:52:38 PM »
    I always think that the core of the coil is very important, it seems very suitable for the coil core Fe3o4

YouTube Video Links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA8HalLJ92c&feature=feedwll&list=WL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZE-pIXipm4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Offline woopy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 608
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #145 on: March 03, 2011, 12:21:39 AM »
Hi all

Thanks fo every contributers

let's go on

it is a very interesting subject and a lot of of remaining work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7SeAzDhXK4

good luck at all  :)

Laurent


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #145 on: March 03, 2011, 12:21:39 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4021
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #146 on: March 03, 2011, 12:21:57 AM »
Hi Laurent,

Ok, just take your time, this is not a race, at least I do not consider it that way, just take it easy.  ;) 

Gyula

Hi Gyula

Thanks a lot for this info about Doug shematic

will study and try it ASAP

for today, i could replicate Romero uk result  and i tried LED in serie and in parallel i will report the result because it is not so simple and i want to be sure before saying anything

For info i tried a bigger coil with much less impedance and also inductance with good results also ,i will go on the testing ( see the pix with very strong and probably too large pulse at the top and bottom of the sine wave)

good luck at all

Laurent

Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4021
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #147 on: March 03, 2011, 07:05:50 PM »
Hi Laurent,

Late last night we wrote at about the same time I noticed but had to finish.

Good video, thanks and my question is whether you simply has not redrawn your schematic you showed at 1:22 on the two Hall sensors? I mean the corrections I showed in this schematic:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10398.0;attach=51179

The 22k (or now the 10kOhm) resistor's right hand side leg cannot connect to the common point of the source electrodes: that is what I meant by editing out your black wire with a gray line to mask it, ok? And you have to connect the 9V battery negative not only to the HAll device negatives but to the common source electrodes, too this is what I showed in blue line.

Please confirm how these two 'problems' are connected in reality on your board.

My other question is on the Hall sensor types: you indicate SS443A which are unipolar types so they react on normally to one dedicated magnetic pole, I suppose it is the South?  IF this is so, then how can you use the same type for reacting on the the opposite magnet pole?

Thanks, Gyula

PS More on later.

Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4021
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #148 on: March 03, 2011, 10:14:43 PM »
Hi Laurent,

While the modifications in the Hall switch schematic are needed as I wrote above, there is still a problem I am going to explain.
When I showed you this reed switch controlled schematic:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10398.0;attach=51183 
the 10kOhm was indeed between the gate-source electrodes, to discharge the CGS capacitance of the MOSFETS at switch off, otherwise this capacitance would keep the 9V from the battery (in spite of the reed already went in the off position) for a longer time, the FETs could not switch off when you you want them).

Now that you use Hall switch, it does NOT have two independent switch points like a reed has,  only one, the so called output, designated with letter o in the SS443A data sheet. This means that you simply cannot use this Hall switch at the same place where the reed is shown. This is why I wrote and showed in an edited schematic how the 'correct' connections should be done.
SO the 'problem' with this modified schematic is that the Hall cannot help but control the FETs with an opposite duty cycle: when the Hall sensor switches on from the coming (South) magnetic pole, then its "o" output goes to the negative ground and switches OFF the FETs! And when the magnet leaves this Hall sensor, then its "o" output goes in fact into an open circuit BUT there is the 22k (or now 10k) which makes this output to be a positive 9V with respect to the Hall sensor's negative leg & with respect to the FETs source electrodes  i.e. the FETs switch ON!
So what is missing is a device which inverts the Hall output and this is the 2N2222 or any other NPN bipolar transistor as shown in Doug Konzen recent schematic I showed you the other day.

To make it more understandable for you, I modified Doug's schematic to
your present needs: I left out the MOSFET driver 4422 integrated circuit.
What is remained is one Hall device that drives a 2N2222 transistor and this transistor drives the MOSFETs. 

I hope now all is clear and sorry I have not realized this 'problem' yesterday.

I attached the modified schematic below.  OF course you can use the
4422 driver chip too, it will make the switch ON & OFF times very quick whenever the Hall is positioned correctly.  For the time being, I advise you to use only one Hall sensor, say, to switch at the positive peak sine wave and when it runs ok then you could connect a second Hall and position it so that it would control the FETs at the negative peaks of the induced sine waves.  The latter Hall could act also on a South pole like the first one but position it slightly offset from the first Hall.

If you wish to use driver chip like the 4422 as shown earlier, then I suggest buying 4421 instead, which is the inverting version of 4422, so that the 2N2222 transistor is not needed for inverting the output response of the Hall sensor. When you wish I can draw a new schematic with the 4421 too.

rgds,  Gyula

Offline joefr

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #149 on: March 03, 2011, 10:34:19 PM »
Thanks Gyula for new schematic and detailed explanation

I will be ordering components for this setup, so could you please draw new schematic with the 4421 driver too.
And cay you specify which Hall sensor model is needed in this setup ?


Here I found some info about Hall Sensors:

Unipolar Hall-Effect Sensor:
Unipolar Hall-effect sensor ICs, often referred to as "unipolar switches," are operated by a positive magnetic field. A single magnet presenting a south polarity (positive) magnetic field of sufficient strength (magnetic flux density) will cause the device to switch to its on state. After it has been turned-on, the unipolar IC will remain turned-on until the magnetic field is removed and the IC reverts to its off state.
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/unipolar/index.asp

Omnipolar Switch Hall-Effect:
Omnipolar Hall-effect sensor ICs, often referred to as "omnipolar switches," are a type of digital output Hall-effect latching switches that operate with either a strong positive or strong negative magnetic field. This simplifies application assembly because the operating magnet can be mounted with either pole toward the omnipolar device. A single magnet presenting a field of sufficient strength (magnetic flux density) will cause the device to switch to its on state. After it has been turned-on, the omnipolar IC will remain turned-on until the magnetic field is removed and the IC reverts to its off state. It latches the changed state and remains turned-off, until a magnetic field of sufficient strength is again presented.
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/omnipolar/index.asp

Latching Switch Hall-Effect:
Latching Hall-effect sensor ICs, often referred to as "latches," are digital output Hall-effect switches that latch output states. Latches are similar to bipolar switches, having a positive BOP and negative BRP, but provide tight control over switching behavior. Latches require both positive and negative magnetic fields to operate. A magnet presenting a south polarity (positive) magnetic field of sufficient strength (magnetic flux density) will cause the device to switch to its on state. When the device is turned-on it latches the state and remains turned-on, even if the magnetic field is removed, until a north polarity (negative) magnetic field of sufficient strength is presented. When the negative field is presented, the device is turned-off. It latches the changed state and remains turned-off, even if the magnetic field is removed, until a south polarity (positive) magnetic field of sufficient strength is again presented.
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/latching/index.asp

Bipolar Switch Hall-Effect:
Bipolar sensor ICs are designed to be sensitive switches. (Note that the term "bipolar" refers to magnetic polarities, and is not related to bipolar semiconductor chip structures.) A bipolar switch has consistent hysteresis, but individual units have switchpoints that occur in either relatively more positive or more negative ranges. These devices find application where closely-spaced, alternating north and south poles are used, resulting in minimal required magnetic signal amplitude, ΔB, because the alternation of magnetic field polarity ensures switching, and the consistent hysteresis ensures periodicity.
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/bipolar/index.asp

 

OneLink