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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 352794 times)

Offline forest

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2011, 11:58:30 PM »
What is the input current ? if input power is below 4Watts then self-runner is possible imho

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2011, 11:58:30 PM »

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2011, 12:03:53 AM »
Test with measurements.
Shorting the coil seems that is not affecting the speed or the power used to drive the rotor.
I am working to replace the reed with mosfets and a hall sensor.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33IQaN-M27U

Offline dekoratör

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2011, 12:05:56 AM »
Hi everyone, I just did a little experiment.
This tool is very beautiful. but it does not work itself. only a very low amps and high voltage.  you can try to charge a(220 uf 400volt) cap takes a long time ...
  Connect the battery to drive the output of coil with diodes.

then follow with a voltmeter voltage falls.

nevertheless romrouk friend thank you very much for sharing.

I wish you success in your work ...
(sorry my bad english..(google translate)) :-)
best regards ...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2011, 12:05:56 AM »
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Offline dekoratör

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #93 on: February 25, 2011, 12:09:49 AM »
perhaps the same as the inverter is running...

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2011, 12:13:57 AM »
Hi Conrad,

If I may chime in, here is a video from which you can get some explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRyKVU6YzYw

So shorting (not shortening) a coil means just bridging the two wire ends of a coil together at will with a piece of wire (i-e- with a reed switch or with a MOSFET etc), when the induced voltage in it is just at its peak values (both at the positive and the negative peaks).

When you use an air coil then you surely have a much lower coil inductance than in case of a soft iron cored coil. Hence the voltage spike should surely be lower versus a iron cored coil. (Normal induction law.)

I think the higher L you use with the lowest copper resistance, the bigger kick you get back from the coil after the shorting moment. This means multiturn coils wound with thick wire. I think coils made for audio cross-over filters are a good example for higher L and less ohmic losses, especially, if you deliberately use soft iron core in them.  ;)

rgds,  Gyula


Hello Laurent,

the experiment in your video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB9wxySoBQE is just amazing (lightning the white 3 Volt LED with such low speed). I would like to replicate it (because I have a rotor with four magnets sitting in my work shop). But I do not understand your circuit. The most simple circuits are hardest to understand without a diagram (at least I am such a dummy). Specially I do not get what you mean by "shortening the coil"? Do you permanently connect a wire somewhere in the circuit?

I would like to ask you to make a very crude hand drawing of your circuit (used in the video) and to post it here (a photo or as a video). Your experiment is very important for understanding what is going on, because it looks so simple and easy to replicate. You seem to have come up with the most simple demonstration of this incredible effect.

I wounder what happens when you use an air coil? Because the rotor should loose much less speed (less cogging) than with the coil (having a core) you are showing in the video. But may be the induction is then too little?

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2011, 12:13:57 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #95 on: February 25, 2011, 12:24:06 AM »
Hi Romero,

VERY, VERY GOOD!  Thank you for showing the input current behavior.
If you need help in choosing MOSFET switch, tomorrow I can suggest some.

Greetings,  Gyula


Test with measurements.
Shorting the coil seems that is not affecting the speed or the power used to drive the rotor.
I am working to replace the reed with mosfets and a hall sensor.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33IQaN-M27U

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2011, 01:24:11 AM »
Thank you Gyula, your explanations (and the video you recommended) made things a lot clearer for me.

@romero: I am always worried about reed switches, their life is rather short. A hall sensor and a MOSFET would be great. May be one needs two MOSFETS, one for the positive and one for the negative side of the sine wave coming from the pick up coil.


Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2011, 01:24:11 AM »
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Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2011, 02:09:23 AM »
Hi Conrad,

If I may chime in, here is a video from which you can get some explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRyKVU6YzYw


The video is a very good demonstration but there is a big MISTAKE.

There is a drawing shown at the begining of the video which shows a sine wave.
Note that the magnet passing the coil generates a uni-polar wave pulse and not
a sine wave.


Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2011, 03:33:41 AM »

Hi Romero,
Thank you Gyula, your explanations (and the video you recommended) made things a lot clearer for me.

@romero: I am always worried about reed switches, their life is rather short. A hall sensor and a MOSFET would be great. May be one needs two MOSFETS, one for the positive and one for the negative side of the sine wave coming from the pick up coil.


Greetings, Conrad
I believe that Conrad is correct in the following...

You can double down on the effect by shorting the coil at both the peak of the spike and the center of the notch (negative). This alone should double your output.

Good luck! 
Bruce

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2011, 03:33:41 AM »
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Offline teslaalset

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2011, 10:11:41 AM »
The video is a very good demonstration but there is a big MISTAKE.

There is a drawing shown at the begining of the video which shows a sine wave.
Note that the magnet passing the coil generates a uni-polar wave pulse and not
a sine wave.

@Masterplaster,
This depends  on the North/Southpole orientation of the magnets that are used.
If they N/S axis is pointing to the centre of the wheel you will have a different waveshape than when the N/S axis is pointing parallel to the outer side of the wheel.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #100 on: February 25, 2011, 01:13:01 PM »
Hi Romero,

Would you mind answering some questions.

1) What is the DC resistance of your generator coil (you mentioned it is fan motor coil from a microwave owen with its laminated core, right?) Normally such motor coils have some hundred Ohms copper resistance.
Do you happen to have an L meter to measure the inductance of this coil?

2) There is a yellow rectangular shape capacitor on this generator coil, I assume it is in parallel with the reed switch to reduce sparking?  If yes, then it eventually is in parallel with the gen coil, right? What is the capacitor value? 

3) Did you find any input drag increase when you tried to position the gen coil closer to the rotor magnets (to have bigger output voltage)?  [Here I am aware of the fact that once you fixed the reed switch onto the gen coil's side facing the rotor magnets, then if you place this coil closer or away from the rotor magnets then you unwantedly change the switch ON/OFF time too.]

4) Have you considered using a full wave bridge across the gen coil instead of the single diode? 

5) In the latest videos, did you have the recovery diode on the input battery side as you showed in your very first schematic in the first page of this thread?

Sorry for nagging you, I think these are important details...  ;)

Thanks,  Gyula


Test with measurements.
Shorting the coil seems that is not affecting the speed or the power used to drive the rotor.
I am working to replace the reed with mosfets and a hall sensor.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33IQaN-M27U

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #100 on: February 25, 2011, 01:13:01 PM »
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Offline nilrehob

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #101 on: February 25, 2011, 05:27:46 PM »
I did this some time ago, very interesting it is,
but i believe a reed switch is too slow not to create a drag,
using a microcontroller for this is on my todo-list, (together with turning the magnets 90 deg)
maybe an arduino would work, but i would like to have a faster cpu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKYqblP5ieg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OZKE1dvrvE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA6qVv4Ono0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck4y70TGTqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSONkDcl72g

/Hob

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2011, 12:20:38 AM »
@nilrehob:

I am impressed, you did a great job with your videos, outstanding. Much has become clearer to me. And one sees again, there is hardly a thing on earth which has not been tried by some clever person before.

Below please sea a frame I grabbed from one of your videos (and I added two red dots). Is the reed switched triggered at both dots (positive and negative peak of the quasi sine wave)?

I do not understand a reed switch well enough. Does the south AND the north pole of a magnet trigger a reed switch? (With hall sensors it depends on the type of the sensor.)

For me, the last video (the one with the LED) shows gain when shorting the coil. And since you heard a clear difference in the noise made by your rotor when shorting, the rotor could slow down faster with the reed switch (more breaking force induced by the coil), which would explain where the additional energy came from.

Microcontroller: I was thinking about using one, may be the new MSP 430 LaunchPad (I got four of them) is good enough (up to 16 MHZ)
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_(MSP-EXP430G2)?DCMP=launchpad&HQS=Other+OT+launchpadwiki

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #103 on: February 26, 2011, 02:51:19 AM »
Hi romero,

Think about this principle from Steven Mark and our work on the TPU.  You take ten thin individually insulated wires and wrap an input coil.  Parallel both ends of the ten strands each.  Now, not only is the output increased because the resistance is decreased, but you have taken the effect and multiplied it by TEN!


Double that to twenty, if you short the coil in the center of both the positive peak and negative notch.

That should drive it into OU territory.   ;)

Add another coil at the perfect distance across and parallel both coils, now you have dropped the resistance again and doubled the output from having two coils which is 40 times the power output that you started with.

Good success to you,

Bruce

Offline akunkeji

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #104 on: February 26, 2011, 04:54:14 AM »
Two years ago, I have been in the experimental coils shorted, then used primary of transformer as storage inductor, is a static device. Can improve the efficiency of the charging capacitor.

 

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