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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 355975 times)

Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #300 on: March 15, 2011, 09:03:38 AM »
Quote
Yes i did thanks and i read all your tests its looks very interesting. I still haven't had time to watch your YT vids yet as the internet for me this last weekend was very slow and take forever to load so i was going to reply after i seen them. I have been getting a LOT of PM's lately so sorry if i cant answer them all but i do read them. I prefer them in public on relevant forum so i don't have to keep answering the same questions over and over unless of course its a really private matter.

Bolt, I think you must have confused me with someone else lol as I'm not sure what texts and vids you are referring to. My PM was called "wake up tool". I didn't post here as I didn't want to be off topic.

Mario

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #300 on: March 15, 2011, 09:03:38 AM »

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #301 on: March 15, 2011, 12:20:32 PM »
@popolibero
The coil in Magnacoasters setup is most important.The magnets used are also important, you must match the coil with the magnets used.When the single magnet on the gap side is close to the core should attract to the coil even if it is in repulsion because attraction to the core, then when power is applied should push that magnet away.If the coil is not right and powerful enough then it will not create enough gain when the power applied returns to zero.
Suggestion:
Make a coil with 2 layers of wire then continue making another 2 but only on half of the coil, on the side where you have the gap.This way you will get stronger field on that side where you need to cancel the magnet.
The coil does get hot after some time that's why Richard is using oil cooling.
I have been working on this setup since Richard posted his first results but still without having more than 1.7 -1.8 .
We need a bit more than 2 then we are in business.
I got best results with the mecanical setup not with the solid state.
Success,

Romero

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #302 on: March 15, 2011, 05:42:54 PM »
@Romerouk,
Thanks for the explanation. I kind of see what you are talking about.
Just a suggestion. If you could use windows paint program to just draw blocks over lapping. This would make any explanation more clear then you can focus on specificity quicker. I tend to try to over mentalize and get the wrong idea. No different than most of us.  :D

I use Visio. That lets you then move items individually to accomodate any adjustmentment.


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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #302 on: March 15, 2011, 05:42:54 PM »
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #303 on: March 15, 2011, 09:17:24 PM »
@l_ron,
Thanks for the zero crossing circuit.
I posted 555s because this is a predominant item in most inventories. Was just trying to accomodate quick prototyping at no monetary outlay.

I interpreted your response to the Falstad script as 'My bad'. I didn't take into account the complexity this might prove to most. I tend to shy away from simulators also but in this case it proved invaluable to expidite another version of your circuit.

Also when I mention the 'I' word I am not claiming ownership or plagerism. Never. I was only expressing effort to present an alternative solution even though it used more parts. My goal is always to get more out there quicker.

If anybody was offended I apologize.

Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #304 on: March 15, 2011, 09:32:47 PM »
Just a note on Bob Boyce.  Its my understanding after dissecting all the info i can find on it that the toroidal thing he uses is wired as a  3 phase transformer in essence driven by processor for control of very narrow PWM pulses, amplitude  and frequency control. The HF ferrite transformer is driven out of phase to create very high VARS and the cell sits in series with another inductor with a cap across it to make alike RF tuned circuit. This is basic RV technology.

Bob says the overall system from DC to gas has a COP around 3-5 typical. The only reason i mention this is because i seen reference to Bob's stuff having a COP > 1000 and this it not true.  So his devices puts on par with a good MEG but falls way short of Kapanadze COP 100 and the real TPU and VTA has a COP > 1000. Anything with a COP 5 or over should be capable of looping very easy.

Bolt, where do you get the figure of 5?  From what I've heard , or what's in the documents I've managed to scrounge up, indicates that Boyce's device could potentially be really high COP if done properly.  I'll go with a COP = 5 though since you seem to have more information than I do.


Quote
Although many people have produced COP 1.2 or 1.8 etc within well tuned Joule Thief's, Bedini wheels and chargers etc you cant loop till you get a COP 2 plus losses to loop it usually means in practice at least COP 2.5  and even then its twitchy as hell to get a motor/gen looped at low COP and will have no power to drive anything else other than barely keep itself going.

Thanks, this is great information.   


I'm trying to figure out how to do the Boyce TPU pulses and phase properly with microcontroller interrupts.  It's hard because on a 16Mhz/20Mhz Atmel the fastest you can interrupt is around 37ns.   But if you want phase control with resolution of 1-3ns then you have do calculate your phase correction over multiple frequency cycles (calculate pulse wave phase over multiple microcontroller interrupts).   

This is for a wave with around 1% duty cycle btw, so for example 500ns on and around 49.5us off.   I suppose actually , thinking about it now, that you could do this within a single interrupt cycle , but I need to start playing with Atmel assembler and my scope.


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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #304 on: March 15, 2011, 09:32:47 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #305 on: March 15, 2011, 10:06:22 PM »
@l_ron,
Thanks for the zero crossing circuit.
I posted 555s because this is a predominant item in most inventories. Was just trying to accomodate quick prototyping at no monetary outlay.

I interpreted your response to the Falstad script as 'My bad'.

If anybody was offended I apologize.

Apologies accepted. The zero crossing was a published circuit to which I provided the link. The one shot and gated oscillator are standard circuits.

You had said you were going to put this into Falstad with 555's and then gave the code... fine, but then when the schematic was posted some time later, credit was given to Falstad. That is what I felt was wrong.

One of the problems in using 555's for this circuit is they require a negative going trigger. Whereas the 4047 can trigger on either a negative or a positive logic, while requiring only one cap and one resistor, and a fraction of the drive current. Same with the 4093.  But then, people love their 555's

Ok, on with the show

Ron

 

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #306 on: March 16, 2011, 12:00:25 AM »
@Romerouk,
Thanks for the explanation. I kind of see what you are talking about.
Just a suggestion. If you could use windows paint program to just draw blocks over lapping. This would make any explanation more clear then you can focus on specificity quicker. I tend to try to over mentalize and get the wrong idea. No different than most of us.  :D

I use Visio. That lets you then move items individually to accomodate any adjustmentment.
Here is how I have Magnacoasters coil.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #306 on: March 16, 2011, 12:00:25 AM »
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Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #307 on: March 16, 2011, 12:55:32 AM »
@Romerouk, all

OKay so that diagram makes sense, but what are the winding directions, and do they matter?   And that winding looks CCW with respect to the left of the diagram, but why is the output wire coming off the end?

Wouldn't a CCW winding go down the core to the end, then come back say 20% of the core, then be taken off as output lead?

What is the core material?  (Ferrite?  Powdered Iron?   Rusty Nail?)

I see a 1cm gap to the right of the image, but what about to the left of the image?  Is there a gap there, or does the core touch the magnet on the left?

What is the diameter of the core?

How many total leads come off the windings on the core (2 leads?  4 leads?)?

What is the strength and composition of the magnets?

etc

Thanks,
Feynman


Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #308 on: March 16, 2011, 01:13:03 AM »
"Bolt, where do you get the figure of 5?  From what I've heard , or what's in the documents I've managed to scrounge up, indicates that Boyce's device could potentially be really high COP if done properly.  I'll go with a COP = 5 though since you seem to have more information than I do."

Watch the Bob Boyce DVD/Vid on google about his stuff he mentions in the vid that his 3 phase toroid produces a total DC to Gas COP of about 4-5.

With the exception of trying a few different core materials the construction using special silver litz wire and covered in bees wax etc is just an expensive waste of time.  In fact i will go so far to say you can get excellent VARS and ferromagnetic resonance by pinging a standard 3 phase transformer ..and the bigger the better. When its close for too heavy to lift its big enough. A 50/60Hz transformer will tend to go into very high ferro-resonance around 150-600Hz with 5% duty cycle so look around there. It must be tuned VERY carefully using 450VAC motor run caps.

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #308 on: March 16, 2011, 01:13:03 AM »
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Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #309 on: March 16, 2011, 01:21:30 AM »
"I have been working on this setup since Richard posted his first results but still without having more than 1.7 -1.8 .
We need a bit more than 2 then we are in business."

Exactly, so you see as i mentioned just before in earlier post it is not so hard to attain a COP of 1.2-1.9 as can be done with many methods but breaking the looping barrier plus recover losses about a COP of 2.5 is a tough cookie!  You must get this by using caps and SS switches to pulse on off loads.

That said you have already made a good Energy Power Saving device for solar charging etc. and its OU but of course don't try and convince anyone thru measurements its just a waste of precious time and energy.

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #310 on: March 16, 2011, 02:01:25 AM »
@Romerouk,
Great Pic! The 4 layer wrap at the end is pure genius for who ever thought that up.  :D

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #310 on: March 16, 2011, 02:01:25 AM »
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Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #311 on: March 16, 2011, 02:27:11 AM »
@Romerouk, all

OKay so that diagram makes sense, but what are the winding directions, and do they matter?   And that winding looks CCW with respect to the left of the diagram, but why is the output wire coming off the end?

Wouldn't a CCW winding go down the core to the end, then come back say 20% of the core, then be taken off as output lead?

What is the core material?  (Ferrite?  Powdered Iron?   Rusty Nail?)

I see a 1cm gap to the right of the image, but what about to the left of the image?  Is there a gap there, or does the core touch the magnet on the left?

What is the diameter of the core?

How many total leads come off the windings on the core (2 leads?  4 leads?)?

What is the strength and composition of the magnets?

etc

Thanks,
Feynman
The winding is normal from left to the right then back for the second layer then when finished the second layer jump with the wire to the half of the core and continue winding in the same direction.When we get to the right hand side continue winding to the left but now only to the half of the coil where you stop and continue winding again to the right.Direction for the winding not very important, just test the coil to get attraction on the left and repulsion on the right.You might have NN or SS, depending of the coil winding.
On the left hand side the magnet is in contact with the core.
The wire I used is 1mm, not sure how many turns (about 150) but make sure you have 2 full layers then another 2 to the half of the coil.You can try even more layers on the right hand side, that will make that side stronger.
The core I use is ferrite 2.5cm square , might work with other materials too.
The magnets I use are 5 x 5/2.5/1 cm on the left side and 1x 5/2.5/1 cm on the right hand side, all neodymium n48.
We have 2 wires comming out as from a normal coil.

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #312 on: March 16, 2011, 02:32:23 AM »
@Romerouk,
Great Pic! The 4 layer wrap at the end is pure genius for who ever thought that up.  :D
I thought that after trying many different windings and realised that I need much stronger field to cancel the magnet field.Maybe more windings on the right hand side will do better, I must make a new coil and try but for now I am still working on the shorting coil setup.

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #313 on: March 16, 2011, 02:50:16 AM »
I thought that after trying many different windings and realised that I need much stronger field to cancel the magnet field.Maybe more windings on the right hand side will do better, I must make a new coil and try but for now I am still working on the shorting coil setup.

So just to reiterate for the record can you say again what COP you got from this about 1.7? The reason i ask i know this can work given bench time and money to get the details ironed out but so many people have said for years magnacoaster can not work and its a hoax.  I love you to put the record straight that your tests have shown it CAN go OU.

Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #314 on: March 16, 2011, 03:11:48 AM »
So just to reiterate for the record can you say again what COP you got from this about 1.7? The reason i ask i know this can work given bench time and money to get the details ironed out but so many people have said for years magnacoaster can not work and its a hoax.  I love you to put the record straight that your tests have shown it CAN go OU.
I have got about 1.7 COP with the mechanical version.I have tested the solid state version too but with simillar results. People where talking here about Magnacoasters and I posted my results.I don't think this one is a hoax but ofcourse, this is my opinion not a crime.This is the reason we are here, to share info.
I have got those results without this type of coil I posted early and after playing with the setup from GAP Power I built this type of coil and got much better results. Since then, I have not done proper measurements but I am confident that this coil will increase the COP.
People should try this type of coil even in other setups and see the results.

All the best,
RomeroUK

 

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