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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 438995 times)

Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #255 on: March 11, 2011, 11:05:51 AM »
Quote from: popolibero on March 11, 2011, 09:59:53 AM

The Kunel stuff tends to use the control coil to neutralize (hide) a magnet from the pick up coil(s) and let go. In this case I think it's really just shifting the bloch wall, in a very powerful way.


No it that is not the right thinking. When you bring two similar poles of magnets
you feel the magnetic force. A bit like pushing two baloons together. This is how I see the magnetic fields.

Also, think of a bow and arrow, you pull the bow back to the right amount. too little or too much is no good. The magnetic field is the pressure behind the bow.

So you fire the magnetic field and you let go!

I have a feeling that on collapse of the holding force, the earths magnetic field over compensates and that is the bounty.

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Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #256 on: March 11, 2011, 02:38:01 PM »
@popolibero
The magnet with the gap must be in repulsion mode. I have tried all Magnacoasters setups but without gain at the level Richard is claiming. I am sure he's got another secret there, maybe coil lenght in relation with the magnets, the coil itself,winding,...
Recently I have tried to short the driving coil and the spike I got burned all components, transistor, hall,... The spike was about 1600v.
Richard has the same problem for long time now, the spike burns the components and is difficult to control. He is using a chopper transformer but even there he has some problems too. Dumping the charge in

Shorting the BEMF is a better approach, timing is very important.
I have redone my circuits and now I am using better components.
One thing to mention, I am not shorting the coil directly, I am doing it with a capacitor, in fact the shorting is adding a capacitor in parallel with the coil.The capacitor value in my case is 0.33uf.
The coil I use is not the old MOT fan anymore, I have made a coil with 500 turns, 0.8mm wire.
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Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #257 on: March 11, 2011, 04:42:51 PM »
Okay , it sounds like this is promising ,but we really need to put this together as an open-source PDF for this to be viable.  It's hard when the information is scattered around in 10 different places.

Anyway, I'll try to dig more into this, but the basic idea is what.  Solenoid in parallel with 3-4 magnets driven with 20-50khz ... okay, cool... what waveform drives the solenoid?  How does the inverter fit in to the schematic?

To be honest, I feel more confident replicating the Boyce TPU than the Magnacoaster thing, but maybe thats cause I've done more research on it, and programming microcontroller pulses seems to be easier to me somehow.
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #258 on: March 11, 2011, 04:46:03 PM »
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Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #259 on: March 11, 2011, 04:52:13 PM »
Quote from: giantkiller on March 11, 2011, 04:46:03 PM
'nuff sed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lU2Ijs_8TY

Thanks GK, that's really interesting.  Putting the magnets and toroid against the television to measure the flux was a good idea.   Still I'm not clear on how to get from this to a practical system...

In the Kunel patents, the systems still use battery banks.   As far as I'm concerned, I want 'solid-state' or bust... no Bedini battery banks.  Just capacitors and invertors etc.

But what you've posted is definitely promising, hopefully you're able to use that information to build a new circuit.
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #260 on: March 11, 2011, 04:53:06 PM »
Quote from: romerouk on March 11, 2011, 02:38:01 PM


Recently I have tried to short the driving coil and the spike I got burned all components, transistor, hall,... The spike was about 1600v.



romero, fascinating... could you clarify that for me? were you driving in attraction or repulsion, where did the short take place, before, during, or after the power pulse?

Ron


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Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #261 on: March 11, 2011, 05:33:37 PM »
What if when the driving pulse subsides the collapse is faster than light and more powerful?

Place the Kunel Patent and the tv demo on top of each other for a configuration verification.
You don't want to use batteries? LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL. Excuse me for that but simplicity is raking me over the coils. Put a coil on the ring to bias the iron wire into a polarized magnetic field. MuwHaahahahah! 90 degree coupling again. Oh yeah! AND(drum roll please) you can control the magnetic field at your whim! (This is a biggie).
Instead of a big ol' fat iron handful you could use a single strand of iron wire and make it as small as you want to create the virtual spark gap. MuwHahahaha!

And you can short that whole mess when ever it deems fitting. A very big MuwHahahahah!

Placement, alignment, polarity and timing.
It is going to be a very great weekend!

p.s. Don't beat this info up with hypos or technikies. It is just too simple not to bench it out, turn it on and let it rip!
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Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #262 on: March 11, 2011, 05:44:04 PM »
You bastard you seem to have had a  technical revelation...  I'm tempted to skip out of work early and go organize my box of mosfets  ;)
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #263 on: March 11, 2011, 05:55:16 PM »
MuWHahahaha!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcuXkicCTro

Fire in the Hole!

Quote from: Feynman on March 11, 2011, 05:44:04 PM
You bastard you seem to have had a  technical revelation...  I'm tempted to skip out of work early and go organize my box of mosfets  ;)
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Offline ramset

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #264 on: March 11, 2011, 06:06:45 PM »
GK
I suppose its no Coinkydink your TV coil looks just like the Kunel Patent you posted?
GK Quote:
"Read this and absorb it."
http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Patents/DE3024814.pdf

Or most of your recent coils for that matter!
Thanks !
Chet
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Offline romerouk

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #265 on: March 11, 2011, 06:28:33 PM »
Quote from: i_ron on March 11, 2011, 04:53:06 PM
romero, fascinating... could you clarify that for me? were you driving in attraction or repulsion, where did the short take place, before, during, or after the power pulse?

Ron
I was driving in repulsion.Transistor also had a diode 1n4007 to capture the BEMF.After few seconds running all components where dead, inclusive the diode.I had it running ok for hours but only when I shorted the BEMF with the capacitor all went KAPUT....:)
Now I am using SS DC Relay 280v/50A and it looks much better, I hope I will not blow that one too, it is quite expensive. I'll do more testing later.
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Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #266 on: March 11, 2011, 06:36:17 PM »
Very good work GK. Good investigative skills breaks down the hype into simple explanations. As far as i know Ismael Aviso Meg works similar but he doesn't use perm magnets but rather powerful electro magnet coils which oppose each other to generate intense flux field. Its the collapsing reflux which is OU and not the energising flux so you must make sure your load is not applied during pulse activation but only on the collapse. As the collapsing flux leads the current pulse you short the sine several times on the peaks gives energy boost. Its by far not the best technology though with a COP of just 2.7 typical of MEGS puts it way behind Kapandze COP about 100 and TPU and VTA the COP >1000. But hey a COP of 2 or 3 would be a nice start!
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #267 on: March 11, 2011, 07:50:22 PM »
The iron core lowers the C.O.P. Better to have air or copper.
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Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #268 on: March 11, 2011, 07:55:35 PM »
Hi Romerouk,

Quote
Shorting the BEMF is a better approach, timing is very important.
I have redone my circuits and now I am using better components.
One thing to mention, I am not shorting the coil directly, I am doing it with a capacitor, in fact the shorting is adding a capacitor in parallel with the coil.The capacitor value in my case is 0.33uf.


This way you can collect some energy with that cap as well and dump it to a load every once in a while. Your shorting spike will probably be a bit less in voltage though, depending how much you let the voltage climb in the cap. Higher voltage in that shorting cap is like having a higher ohm resistor, thus the bang from letting go will be smaller.

Mario
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #269 on: March 11, 2011, 08:12:52 PM »
The circuit of the scope shot of the shorting on the peaks hasn't shown up yet. It is zero crossing.
Anybody got an idea for one?
Thinking of using 555s myself.
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