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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 360279 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #225 on: March 09, 2011, 10:08:32 PM »
Mario,
Its definitely On topic!, Richard Willis is opening two new factories for this!
Please post em.
Chet

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #225 on: March 09, 2011, 10:08:32 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #226 on: March 09, 2011, 10:29:02 PM »
Hi Mario,

Thanks for the circuit and the pictures. You use an interesting circuit with the 555, the frequency control potmeter is in series with the oscillator capacitor, have not seen such connection but if you are happy with it then no problem of course.
I cannot explain yet why a single chopping pulse gives more 'juice' than multiple choppings, hopefully sooner or later an answer will be found.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

right now I don't have the whole circuit on paper like it is right now, but I've attached the basic schematic of the 555 circuit I've been using over the last  few years for many solid state experiments.
I said hall but right now I went from the wheel to solid state so I'm using one 555 circuit to drive the bottom coil (attached pic) at resonance with a cap to simulate the rotating magnet, it has 100 feet og 18AWG wire. On top of that is the big coil which I filled up with 23AWG I believe. Both cores are ferrite.
Since the 555 signal is hitting the power coil at sine peak for resonance I can use the same signal to drive the two mosfets that short the generator coil, convenient right? ;D
To chop that signal I send it to the trigger input of a second 555 circuit and send this signal to the fet driver. You asked about the width, I went from a few % (very narrow) to 100% duty cycle which is like just using the first main pulse. Whatever I do, the output cap has more voltage with just the one main pulse, when I start chopping, whatever frequency, output gets lower. I have more spikes but lower amplitude.

I use a third 555 circuit fed from a separate supply to discharge the cap to the little 240/110 - 12V toroid transformer.

Mario

Offline woopy

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #227 on: March 09, 2011, 10:34:37 PM »
hi all

this thread is really taking off

thank's to all for sharing

good luck at all :D

laurent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #227 on: March 09, 2011, 10:34:37 PM »
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Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #228 on: March 09, 2011, 10:47:30 PM »
Here you go:

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #229 on: March 09, 2011, 10:51:27 PM »
Hi yssuraxu_697,

While I may agree to a certain degree with your saying "I seem to know the tech stuff", LOL,  I by no means know everything, unfortunately.
I have tinkered a lot several years ago on different pulsed circuits when my circumstances both in free time and in lab wise were much better, so when I give technical advice on something to others in forums it is based on earlier hands on experiment and a fairly good amount of background knowledge.  And I never claim or say anything I am not sure of.
Unfortunately, I have been very limited in doing serious tinkering nowadays. And I have not witnessed any extra energy in circuits which clearly could be utilized as being excess over the input.

And I do not think it may be time for me to step in with measurements, particularly in this coil shorting circuit, for I have not claimed anything unusual with it... rather I tried to give some help by pointing out possible problems in the shown schematics so that at least the circuit itself should be as good as possible.
I also think that it is time to step in for those persons why claim extra output: they simple ought to show it with correct measurements data, not with words, that is all.

rgds, 
Gyula



Ok guys, lets quit playing ;)

My testrig is small very low power pulse motor.

Currents status is:
INPUT: 6.55V 15mA = 0.1W
OUTPUT: 0.024W (efficent up to 160V, maximal usable output at 250V)
BEST EFFICENCY: 24%

It must be said that output seems to have zero effect on the input and rotor speed. So it is only 24% but it's totally free. The number is carefully calculated and tested over and over and I found it very good for such low powered mechanical design made from crap lying around. I could extract much more in addition to that 24% from that motor-generator when using additional regular generator coils that put some load on the rotor. But this is not the point, point is the timeline of shorting process:

0ms unused generator pulse (2ms)
2ms drive pulse from battery* (6ms)
8ms backspike (0.1ms)
8.1ms resonant ringing (~6ms)

*yes, this means I short the drive coil, not separate gen coil

Explained this means that first starts the sine wave from natural generation from approaching magnet. Then I connect the battery for 6ms, this drives the disc. After disconnecting the battery there is sparking at the reed, duration is only 0.1ms, most of the energy gets dissipated because of too much microsparking. This can be seen on the rectified shot - no usable energy in backspike - it just gets radiated all over the place. Then resonant ringing kicks in, excited by sparking. Duration is same as drive pulse. And when viewing rectifier and cap shots under load we see that cap charging duration for given load is around 0.4ms.
I have no reference point to sync all the shots but it is clear that cap is being charged only by resonant ringing.
For me the point is that there is real energy in resonant ringing and I doubt that shorting will give any meaningful output when coil does not get excited at its natural resonance. Likely all the hell breaks loose if some modern Tesla shorts also the peaks of resonant ringing. I have seen random hits when amplitude is much larger than regular.
Works just like hydraulic shockwave. Shock the shockwave and for real kicks...

This explains the spark gaps in almost every claimed OU design - no spark - no ringing - no good stuff.
Maybe it is possible with ultra-fast transistors also, I'm no specialist on this.
I tried with RF transistor and got nothing. i_ron also got nothing so far.

Maybe is time for Gyula to step in with some real-world self-made example and scope shots, he seems to know the tech stuff. I would be really glad to avoid spark gaps and such because of RF emission and unstable operation.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #229 on: March 09, 2011, 10:51:27 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #230 on: March 09, 2011, 10:56:40 PM »
Guys, when I chop the hall signal with the 555 circuit to get more shortings per sine peak the output decreases. I mean, from what I see one big bang per peak gives more output than many shorts per peak, this I see from what I collect in the output cap. Of course I've tried sweeping the frequency and duty cycle of the 555, even to match the ringing frequency of the coil, still no luck.
Anyone else getting the same?

Mario

Mario,

 What I noticed, with a small load resistor across the collection cap, was  50 volts DC single pulse, 35 volts for three pulses and then back up to 52 volts when five pulsed.

However I have no resonance ringing so need to try a small cap across the coil

Ron

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #231 on: March 09, 2011, 11:04:45 PM »
Hi Groundloop,

Here is another one, besides what i_ron already showed you:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10398.msg276699#msg276699

Gyula

Konehead,

>>Also this summer Gyula gave me excellent bidirectional mosfet circuit, where mosfets >>connect at the source and gate so they switch AC this works very great.

Can you post this circuit here?

GL.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #231 on: March 09, 2011, 11:04:45 PM »
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Offline popolibero

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #232 on: March 09, 2011, 11:26:41 PM »
Ron, thanks. You do have resonant ringing though, if you zoom in on the spike you'll see the natural ringing of the coil dictated by its inductance and self-capacitance.

regards,
Mario

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #233 on: March 09, 2011, 11:50:56 PM »
Hi Doug, and All,

The simplest "peak finder" that I could find was this one...

http://www.8051projects.info/blogs.asp?view=plink&id=198

Just use an extra coil as you were doing and with one transistor... voila... zero crossing. With the coil adjustable one just moves the coil until it sits squarely on top of the sine peak.

Here is what the circuit looks like, the diode D2 separates the voltage regulator from the transistor sense part of the circuit...

Q1 puts out a positive logic signal so a 555 won't work, I used a CD4047 for the one shot. The one shot then triggers the CD4093. R5 is a pot to set the pulse width.

But minimal parts!

Second pic is my RV setup

Third pic is what the signal looks like, but not shorting the coil in this shot

Ron

Quite a nice circuit i like the way it charges off the second coil. Only thing i am not keen is the very fact a second coil is required. With direct zero point sensing this coil is redundant as can sense just the same coil that will be shorted and also my 555 setup will work with solid state devices. You may have seen yet another version in EVgray where Kone has a circuit that uses another hall trigger to get pulses off the magnets without using a coil then you can do all the timings from that instead.

BTW in case other builders are reading make sure you use independent power supplies batteries etc for these trigger circuits and coil shorting fets. The voltage levels are all over the place in respect to each other so don't try and common everything together they need to stay floating.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #233 on: March 09, 2011, 11:50:56 PM »
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Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #234 on: March 09, 2011, 11:55:00 PM »
Hi Bolt can you please post a diagram of this?
Thanks

I am really bad with drawings i don't have any fancy 3D drawing packages. You draw it as you think i describe it and i tell you if its correct or not and if you need to change anything.

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #235 on: March 10, 2011, 12:24:55 AM »
Guys, I don't know if you think it's off topic but I have a few magnacoaster pics to have a visual of the setup both mechanical and solid state, can't see the magnetic polarity of course, but still...

Let me know if you want me to post them here.

Mario

Sorry to bring Magnacoaster back into this again after all these years but its VERY relevant! He started off with spinning wheels and magnets. You can see he did the pulse motor stuff. He made dozens of types of coils and tried a lot of things.  Within a few months of starting this  he found he could bang magnets with coils and much of this hardware became redundant.  Now i know some of you may be thinking well if magnacoaster found the secret and got tons of OU how come he is not rich and selling tons of stuff by now? Two main reasons. Money AND Politics.

You can not just make and sell a 5kw system as a retail seller without spending many thousands on type approvals, FCC and UL etc because they day you sell ONE is the day you be shut down and fined $100k+ or even face jail time.  Nor do i think anyone would have the nerve to go on Dragons Den, take on staff, commit to commercial office space, spends thousands on hardware UNLESS you have amazing evidence that coils and magnets can produce an incredible amount of OU power. He is certainly not unique history shows many more devices and OU motors are laying around in "museums" collecting dust and no finance. With this said alike many thousands of expired and dormant patents it does not stop people at home making this stuff as you will only get these problems if you try to cash in on it and see $ signs.

There is no easy money in free energy. Its free to use and free to share but VERY expensive to research and build and proving OU device will see no big shot investors come running.... those days back in the 80' an 90's have long gone. So don't build stuff for proof of concept. No one is the slightest bit interested if you have 1mW or 1000 watts OU.

I know you think the world owes you a favour for saving the planet? Nope Ask Ismael Aviso is the latest on the scene with his OU electric car,  government certified by DOE and still no funding!

The only person it will effect is you IF you can put a device to your own practical use to save energy and money.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #235 on: March 10, 2011, 12:24:55 AM »
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Offline Feynman

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #236 on: March 10, 2011, 06:56:02 AM »
Quote
The only person it will effect is you IF you can put a device to your own practical use to save energy and money.

And it will effect the good of the world if we can open source it and make it go viral.  It's one thing to have OU , it's another to make it well-documented and replicable.

Kind of like how different linux distributions run on the same underlying open-source linux kernel.

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #237 on: March 10, 2011, 09:15:04 PM »
@Bolt,
Great posts. Thanks.
And yes the Magnacoaster is very, very relevant.
JDO300 and I discussed this in great detail last year as he did work in trade for a unit. But alas Willis did keep his end of the bargin. I have always been a proponent of the Bloch wall manipulation and it events. I  achieved the same events with the high frequency on the iron core of the GK4 although not controlled. But I don't consider frequencies below 1Mhz high.

The heart of this circuit can be PCB'd for less than twenty bucks and given away or sold from offhore under the guise of safe stun gun, rodent control or LED blinker mechanism. The add on power stages can be sold seperately by another company with instructions who license the driver connection. ;) and pay a subscription fee to the licenser. This way no U.S. federal dollars are involved by the consumer for the right to use the driver. This excludes the U.S. government. What stops the customer from making their own output stages? Nothing. How does the licenser get their fee per unit?
Have an offshore seller do the transactions also. Sell it as one thing and connect it as another. There are many ways to skin a cat.
The driver units can also be sold as kits with the disclaimer 'The customer assumes all responsibility'.  ;D

Sell the antenna but give away the radio.

Offline bolt

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #238 on: March 10, 2011, 10:00:13 PM »
Hi GK!

Nice to see you around i hope you are well! Good ideas about shipping in sections and let user put together 2 parts for a working system wil overcome many problems.

BTW for anyone that still doubts his technology works take a look at this and ask yourself WHY would anyone (magnacoaster) go to make something as complex and expensive as this if it were just a dud? Its clear he has spend his time albeit slowly in bringing this up from a kitchen table design to a production quality OU power supply.

In its most simple form the low power version of about 150 watts has a 2 fet o/p stage is little more than a 50Khz inverter driving a small solenoid size coil with 3 neos one end and 1 the other.

Photo taken about 24 hours ago...

I think this is a 3 phase 5kw PSU with active oil pump cooling.


Bottom photo oil pump assembly. If you look close at top centre is some coils he is using now for power generation. It looks no more then about 150 turns of about 16 awg hardly changed from devices shown years ago. This gives you a good heads up and how you should replicate.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 11:55:43 PM by bolt »

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #239 on: March 10, 2011, 10:34:49 PM »
@Bolt,
Doing well. Spent time talking to Moab last night about this. We talked about control for safety in some of the other devices that are easy to create that runaway in usecs. Lets call them EMPs.  ;D
This device is like the devices on a mechanical spindle in that the meduim has some resistance or latency to it. Something physical slows it down or keeps it below a certain rpm or switching speed.

The Magnacoaster device is the Kunel patent. The weak field in space is the same as shorting the coil at the peaks or manipulating the Bloch wall at the correct place or angle.  ;) 8) ;) 8)

This configuration should make more sense now.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 11:04:40 PM by giantkiller »

 

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