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Author Topic: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.  (Read 3831 times)

Offline nicbordeaux

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From a nylon wheel with a 40 gramme OB driver weight, we fling a magnet weighing say 20 grammes 0.8 x the height of the driver weight loss. The magnet then ataches itself to a steel plate which happens to be up there.

An inert (non magnetic) identically sized flung object will go from gpe, ke, to gpe if caught in a hopper, at apex preferably.

The magnet is a N45 28 kg nominal force. That means that it's "potential energy" on being attached is what ? You need 28 kgs pull to remove it from the steel plate and get your gpe to ke.

As one supposes that the magnet's qualities (eg 28 kg potential) has in no way changed during the process (the only change being it's environment: non magnetic to ferrous), one totally discounts the fact that 28 kgs force/very real resistance have been "added" to the setup ?

We got this magnetic conservative potential which manifests itself in a certain form upon a change in environment.

It's like a pingpong ball which has for sure a bouncability/cor or just straight gpe. But if we change the environment to water, whaddayaknow, we got buoyancy potential.

So running brain.exe and associated programmes says that how do you get a magnet into a pingpong ball, 'coz that's a task which defeated even Einstein, and if you doubt that show me where he demonstrates that you can get a pingpong ball with a magnet in it.

So you got this aquarium w/ no fish, you got a pingpong ball with a smallish neo mag in it, on the bottom of the tank you have a big neo magnet. The ball magnet gets attracted then repelled (cause the pingpong ball kinda rotates and polarity repel stuff happens, added to the the buoyancy stuff). And this should reach a point of equilibrium at some point. Except each time the pingpong ball/mag gets a differential in attraction from the big mag, it creates turbulence in the water, which is even more unpredictability, causing more unpredictabilty in turn, so the thing can never stop moving. Hey presto, PM.

You can keep the Nobel fiziks prize, just send the bread this way please.

Edit : brain.exe is in runaway mode... So the big mag at the bottom of tank we consider for reasons of simplicity as being fixed, not on a spring or else, and orientated South up. The pingpong balls (plural) have little donut or washer neo mags (6 x 2, .640 kg force) glued inside them, the glued to wall side being North. They are all north so will repel each other. "Ang on, you can holler, they'll attract from the other side. No way, mag attraction decreases I think with the square of distance, so square the dia of a pingpong ball and do the math, it's too a long way, even if by rotation that distance can decrease somewhat. "Yeah, but the ping pong ball mag combo get's attracted to the big mag in the tank, the further is sinks the greater the attraction". Hold yer hawses. The deeper the ball sinks, the more that Archie Meedys bloke becomes relevant. The force increases against immersion. The deeper you sink, the harder it becomes to sink further. Plus Archie (again) says that a pingpong ball immersed in a bucket of water will displace an amount of water equal to it's own volume, or something to that effect.

The way you get a mag into a pingpong ball is like this : the mag is dia. 6 mm. Skewer a 12 mm hole in the ball. Insert mag. Insert sticky tape and press down to secure mag. Inject a adequate amount of expansive foam from a aerosol can and wait until it dries and finishes expanding. Sand of the surplus.

Let me give you another tip : using a cyclinder container for this trick does significantly reduce the likelyhood of your pingpong balls getting caught in a corner  ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline e2matrix

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Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2011, 11:50:54 PM »
Fascinating.  I've always liked the idea of using two opposing forces (in this case buoyancy and magnetism) to generate power or PM.  One thing I do see in brain.exe is the ping pong balls attracting each other near the edge of the magnets in them.  I'm not sure about that but if it did happen I think it could be defeated by using a smaller or larger size of the magnet. 
   
  It sounds like you have actually tried this.  Is that correct? 

Offline nicbordeaux

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Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 12:20:19 AM »
  One thing I do see in brain.exe is the ping pong balls attracting each other near the edge of the magnets in them.  I'm not sure about that but if it did happen I think it could be defeated by using a smaller or larger size of the magnet. 
   
  It sounds like you have actually tried this.  Is that correct?

Thx for the interest e2matrix. Yup, tried the principle quickly, looks ok, all went to plan with just a few balls and playing around with water depth to adjust for mag strength/water circulation/movment.

The 6 x 2 ring mags don't have a load of pull on the edge 2 mm part, but you are correct, there is attraction. The amount of turbulence you can create will determine how much of a problem that becomes, as well as the power of the mags you use on the bottom of the tank. At a guess, adding a little non-ferrous keel weight actually on the magnet in the pingpong ball might help ? Whatever, the shallower the depth of water you can get away with the better, easier to make a storm wave pattern in a tea saucer than in a deep pond. I am open sourcing this, it would be nice to see some confirmation/replication.

Generating energy ? Maybe a bit from induction... maybe a mite by having the tank able to move aroung a bit on a spring or else.

Probably won't be replying to any other questions, the whole thing is self-explanatory, just needs hands on experimentation. More than a planet saving energy source (who wants to save the planet anyway ?), this is a fun hobby ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 12:20:19 AM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 01:34:04 AM »
Cool!  It sounds like a fun project as it wouldn't take a lot of cost or time I'd guess.  At least since I've got a lot of different magnets in many sizes and shapes I'll probably give it a try.  Anything that will agitate the PM naysayers will be fun :)

Offline nicbordeaux

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Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 01:39:08 PM »
Well, if you want to check it quickly -never take anybody's word for anything in this business - you don't need pingpong balls. Use a piece of polystyrene with a thin board with the small mags stuck wired (copper) at decent spacing. Wire (copper) board to underside of polystyrene. Steal the wife's plastic floor wash container bucket thing, tape the big mag underneath. Add water as required. That will give you an idea.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 01:39:08 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 09:50:15 AM »
If rotation direction can be clearly determined, it might be worth a try. If there is 50/50 wheter it will rotate clockwise or counter clockwise, it will probably not work. This is also  general tips: Try to imagine how your design could run in the oposite direction than initially expected. In most cases there should not be a reason why a motor shouldn't run the other direction too - which means the motor will not run at all.

Vidar

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 03:47:09 PM »
Hi Nicbordeaux,

Here some interesting observations when playing with your idea.

I cut a small square(1/2") section of polystyrene from some packaging. I stuck a toothpick in the center and placed a small ring magnet on it. Took a clear plastic glad container and filled it with half water. I placed a large neo mag underneath and dragged it back and forth. The little magnet was attracted to large magnet but the flat edges of square polystyrene caused a noticeable delay/lag in movement but it will continue until it hits the edge with some force from the mass of the attached magnet.

Another idea I tested but gives a weak pulse is take the same square and magnet but sandwich a piezospeaker in between wrapped in a plastic bag with the wire sticking out. If you move the large magnet up and down under the container it will squeeze the piezospeaker between the small magnet being pulled down and the polystyrene trying to float up generating a small pulse.

Placing 4 long north pointing magnets up around the bottom outside container and adjusting the long magnets angle in small increments causes the polystyrene square/magnet in the center to slowly spin.

In your idea of using a ping pong ball you may want to use two or three so they are all fighting for equilibrium with the magnet underneath. They should swirl around each other until finding balance all you need to do then is just create a little jitter in the magnetic field to get them going again.

There are so many other ideas to test with this, thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 03:47:09 PM »
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Offline nicbordeaux

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Re: Forget the zero point nonesense. Environment change of objects is better.
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2011, 09:17:43 AM »
Sounds interesting. Great observation, didn't think about the compression/seperation tendancy of the mag material and the float. Don't know much about mags and electricity, if you use piezzo you get very little juice. If you use a shake-a-gen type float, do you get enough current to feeback to magnet so as to create instabilty ?

 

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