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Hydrogen energy => Water arc energy systems => Topic started by: The Power To Be on February 17, 2011, 12:11:02 PM

Title: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 17, 2011, 12:11:02 PM
 

This is a  full disclosure of the facts that will enable humanity to attain a sustainable civilization without the need for oil. Full non proprietory disclosure into the Public Domain by me, the origin inventor. The Power To Be.

PIEZOELECTRIC PRODUCTION OF ATOMIZE WATER WITH HHO FOR INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE, COMBUSTIBLE WATER FUEL.


This system uses plain tap water with no electrolyte, all parts are off the shelf components.

The best solution to producing Water Fuel for Internel combustion Engine is to atomize water as being done in atomize water injection. You can buy an pond fogger that has piezo ceramic transducers. These piezoelectric transducers will atomize large volume of water with economical energy expense. make sure it's a piezoelectric machine that uses piezo transducers. what you need is fine atomize water fog and ultrasonic waves, in addition, piezoelectric crystals is employed to harvest surplus waves to make HHO, these ultrasonic waves would have otherwise been wasted as heat.

The result is a rich combustible atomize water gaseous mixture with HHO produced.

Make some zinc oxide crystals and and put it in wettable envelope. It will harvest surplus ultrasonic waves from the transducer and liberate water into HHO with piezoelectrochemical effect.

Zinc oxide crystals are synthetic and made from oxidize zinc . It is tetrahedral structures and have polar Zn-O bonds whis is ionic and highly piezoelectric. You need a durable envelope that will withstand the vibration, tyvek envelope might work, has to be wettable by water. The envelope is to contain the crystals from being splattered by the splashing water caused by the transducer. The crystals are very fine particles, nano meter sizes.

I have been trying to come up with a simple low temperature method to growing micro size single crystals at low temperature that is simple enough for anyone to perform. The mainstream ZnO single cystals are fused at high temperature and vapor deposited requiring complicated setup and technical expertise.

Ref:
How to make ZnO crystals.
more information on growing crystals to commercial standards, see this paper
nathan.instras.com/documentDB/paper-243.pdf

Piezoelectric HHO production.
http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2010/03/23/zinc-oxide-hydrogen-piezoelectric/


This is a simplified version for home use.
Please use all precaution, I am not responsible for anything that may occur.

Materials:
1lb. Zinc powder nano.
1 gallon ammonia cleaning (ammonium hydroxide)

Tools:
Hot plate with Magnetic Stirrer
teflon coated stir bar.
1 liter boiling flask with rubber stopper.
reflux condenser if available.
water bath.
thermometer


Dissolve 30 grams of ZnO in each 300 ml of 30% ammonium chloride/ hydroxide. This is best done by filling 300 ml of 30% amonnium hydroxide into the flask and place on stirrer with teflon bar. Turn on the heat to medium, Turn on Stirrer to low speed, #3. Slowly add zinc oxide to solution. When all ZnO is dispensed, cap flask and turn up stirrer to maximum, bring the heat up to 60 deg C and let it mix for 30 minutes.



Place flask in the Freezer and freeze solution to -0 degrees C.
When you reach this temperature, allow an additional 1 hr.

Before reflux, bath flask in a bowl of room temperature water for 5 minutes to avoid thermal shock and breakage of flask.

Set up water bath, large boiling glass bowl with water. Put your flask of cold solution in the water bath and set up reflux condenser with water tube, if you don't have one then just cap your flask tightly and turn on heat. Allow solution to heat up to 60 degrees C, maintain 60 deg C temperature for 2 hours, crystals will grow during this time.

Let solution cool to room temperature, Filter solution and recover crystals.

the crystals are self seeding. these crystals are not the typical large crystals that most people grow at home. the single crystals are very small, nano size, at this size, they are able to pick up all induced waves and convert waves into electrolysis of water.

When water is atomized with pond fogger, it is easily dissociated into HHO by the crystals. The gas mixture is rich in HHO, I don't know the H content but it is highly combustible. I got the idea after watching Dingles youtube video. You can clearly see the fog rising so I made the same unit in an old battery case and it works. The zinc crystals vibrates upon ultrasonic vibration generating it's own electricity and aiding in splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen. This makes the gas mixture richly combustible and the atomize water will keep your generator running cooler with greater power generation. This can also be ported for motive use.


Obtain a small generator to learn on, you can get a 6 kw/hr electric start Champion genset from costco for $500 or so. Swap out the spark plug, put on a Diamond/Splitfire or high performance spark plug from autopart store. If you can make Krupa spark plug, that will work much better.

Construct a chamber to house your Atomizer and duct the fog into the engine air intake. Start engine with regular gasoline, then switch over to water injecion. It will run good and you can improve upon it by selective filtering of H and O2 seperately into a storage tanks so no gasoline/ diesel is needed to start engine, you can also add 2 and 3 stage tanks to seperate atomize water also and be able to precisely blend your gaseous mixture on demand according to your engines needs, thus allowing you to run all types of ICE, small engines, diesel and gasoline.






Copy of Krupa's Firestorm spark plug .
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/howtomakeplasmaplugs.pdf
replication Instructable.


Ultrasonic Water Fogger-The Mist Maker
http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html
K006 is the transducer, there machines are bit too $$$ but they ship fast. buy em cheap from aliexpress or taobao, delivery takes 1 week.


zinc oxide is $11/ lb from ebay. ammonium hydroxide is $15 per bottle.

more reading
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1239.0

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on February 19, 2011, 02:39:29 PM
Thank you for sharing.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Qwert on February 19, 2011, 05:30:40 PM
Years ago I have read an article in a pop-tech magazine, that pure hydrogen makes steel parts brittle when contacting them, by fluxing away the structural carbon from the steel lattice. So, be aware of this when using your car's engine! Just "Google" it. My fast "Googling" research can confirm this here for example: http://www.springerlink.com/content/p475551841jhh711/
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Sprocket on February 20, 2011, 05:08:40 AM
Hi.  Are the ZnO crystals consumed over time and at what rate?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: markdansie on February 21, 2011, 09:10:13 AM
@The Power to be
Thank you for sharing
You have my attention.
Appart from the water does anything else get consumedor or need replenishing.
Having read your other threads you are a serious researcher.
The devil is in the detail...have you any figures for the power needed for instance to run the electrics to produce the gas to run the generator. IE is it possible to close loop.
I have seen no over device or replication of a device that has managed to do so.
Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on February 22, 2011, 02:05:30 AM
Hey Guys,

Here is a link to the other forum for powerme's work:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-11.html

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on February 22, 2011, 02:55:56 AM
More links:

Best Way to Use Heat From HHO to Generate Electricity
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274423/B...te-Electricity

Growing Crystals, Piezoelectric Energy Harvesting
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274617/G...rgy-Harvesting

Magnets on Fuel Line Experiment
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274519/M...ine-Experiment

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on February 22, 2011, 03:09:30 AM
Thanks
Altrez
Also say thanks to slovenia for all he does to help!
Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 25, 2011, 12:14:31 AM
Thank you all for you interest in this project. We have been trying to replicate this simple method with difficulties at EF forum.

The concept is simple, A piezoelectric transducer atomizes water whereby ZnO crystals harvest the surplus ultrazonic waves to liberate atomize water into HHO.

Atomized water is a fine molecule measuring 1 micro meter or less, it takes very little energy to liberate HHO at such small size compared to regular water with molecular bond. The difference is just like grinding fine sand into powder versus 1 inch gravels.

I have been labelled with various names of which that does not bother me. From the very begining of our discussion, I had asked everyone numerous times, DO NOT LOOK up to me, I am no difference. You have your own intelligence that resides within you, my goal is to help you liberate your own natural conscious.

Everything is whole, you can not learn Natural Conscious from reading a book as it is only self taught. You can not theorize Conscious as that is pure speculation. When you understand Natural Conscious, you learn to let go, your EGO is the barrier that seperates you from your higherself.

I apologize for ranting continously but you have to understand, the only way to knowing the Truth of Nature is by becoming One with Nature, you do not need a Teacher, you are the Teacher. You do not need me as you are very capable on your own, but I am only here to lend a hand, to show you the first steps.

Nature is abundant with everything that anyone will ever need. When you understand, you will see the many many things that is wrong with this world, and together we will all make a Change.

I am not holding anything back, I have simplified the process by  utilizing common elements inplace of Chemicals that is restricted from Public Access, there by allowing you to see How Nature truly works, how transmutation occurs, how any different elements can be fused together to achieve the same property. There is no Law in Nature, you are the Creator.

I thank you all for your trouble and efforts in helping me distribute this knowledge, Together, we will make a Change.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 25, 2011, 12:35:43 AM
And for the record, I am not ill.

I am in peace and harmony, I do fast, it is a wonderful way of allowing your body to harvest energy directly from the enviroment, much higher energy that allows one to see much clearly.

Everything is just ONE,  you can not dissect Conscious into different fields, that is how your are lost. Spirituallity, Conscious, Mind, there are no such division. Forget everything that you have ever learned, that is the only way. If you can not do that, than I ask that you please do not attempt to do this, it will simply not work. Nature is the Opposite of everything that you hold as knowledge.

My impatience is a simple way of pushing you to please move on and take action.

I am scouting a site that is related and suitable for our work, where everyone is treated equally and where information can flow freely.



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 25, 2011, 10:06:36 AM
@The Power to be
Thank you for sharing
You have my attention.
Appart from the water does anything else get consumedor or need replenishing.
Having read your other threads you are a serious researcher.
The devil is in the detail...have you any figures for the power needed for instance to run the electrics to produce the gas to run the generator. IE is it possible to close loop.
I have seen no over device or replication of a device that has managed to do so.
Kind Regards
Mark

The test 6kwh generator was closed loop with further developments of low pressure storage tanks for H and O2 to enable start/ stop operation without the need for fossil fuel.

ZnO crystals just needs permanent adhesion, there are many ways of doing this, composite plating, ceramic etc, you decide.

My effort is not to give you a solution, but help you develop your own solution in your own unique way, Energy is around you 24 hrs, you just need to see it!.
 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 25, 2011, 10:10:59 AM
Years ago I have read an article in a pop-tech magazine, that pure hydrogen makes steel parts brittle when contacting them, by fluxing away the structural carbon from the steel lattice. So, be aware of this when using your car's engine! Just "Google" it. My fast "Googling" research can confirm this here for example: http://www.springerlink.com/content/p475551841jhh711/
This system is a primitive method of utilizing widely available Internal Combustion Engines. The gas mixture contains 60 to 80 percent atomize water, only enough HHO is injected to make water fuel combustible, the result is a cooler running engine which shall prolong engine life.

There are oil additives such as ceramic that you can use if you are so concern of such damage, It has not been a concern for me.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: MasterPlaster on February 25, 2011, 11:12:09 AM
Years ago I have read an article in a pop-tech magazine, that pure hydrogen makes steel parts brittle when contacting them, by fluxing away the structural carbon from the steel lattice. So, be aware of this when using your car's engine! Just "Google" it. My fast "Googling" research can confirm this here for example: http://www.springerlink.com/content/p475551841jhh711/

This point is normally raised by people ( I don't mean you ) who in an underhanded way
want to distract the would be explorer from continuing his search.

Finding a way of creating free energy does not mean we can all go home and relax.
I am sure the hydrogen solution brings lots of opportunities for metalurogists and the steel industry!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 25, 2011, 11:26:33 AM
I have had time to see this through clearly.
Guys, I am very sorry but I will no longer pursue this project.

It is not my call, it is yours.

I must continue on my own journey.

I wish you all the best.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on February 25, 2011, 12:49:57 PM
The Power to be Quote:
This is a  full disclosure of the facts that will enable humanity to attain a sustainable civilization without the need for oil. Full non proprietory disclosure into the Public Domain by me, the origin inventor. The Power To Be.

------------------------
So much work you have done!

So many intriguing things you say!

You Know everything can change with a thought?

Give it another think!
Thanks for sharing
Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on February 25, 2011, 06:35:35 PM
You will not pursue this project any more here in this forum, or period?

Not your call, but ours?  Please explain!  I for one am waiting on supplies I have ordered to complete this project!  Now you say you are dropping it!  Thanks!

I have had time to see this through clearly.
Guys, I am very sorry but I will no longer pursue this project.

It is not my call, it is yours.

I must continue on my own journey.

I wish you all the best.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Qwert on February 25, 2011, 07:09:50 PM

Finding a way of creating free energy does not mean we can all go home and relax.
In my post I meant to warn experimenters to be wary of an issue of using hydrogen in their ICEs. However, there still exist an enormous opportunity in using hydrogene otherwise. Hydrogen Fuel Cells Industry is the immediate example to this.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Qwert on February 25, 2011, 07:23:12 PM
This system is a primitive method of utilizing widely available Internal Combustion Engines...
Anyway, the final decision always belongs to experimenters. My concern here is to warn those unconscious/unaware ones.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on February 25, 2011, 08:00:58 PM
Power1, You might be giving up, but I am not.  I have also already ordered supplies in order to complete this project -- so I'm in too deep to not give it a try.  My chainsaw arrives this weekend -- and I need to wait for the parts of my spark plug to arrive.  I will be ON this project -- at the latest -- in a week.

If anyone else is in a similar situation -- or if anyone else simply wants to pool together information about this project, that we may collectively string these ideas together, and get it working in some way.  :)

I'm not sure if I can access "higher states" of consciousness yet, so as to rely on my inner knowledge -- but I beleive that through collective collaboration, we may yet get this project running/working.  I meditate, and ask myself questions in dreams -- keep a dream journal, and occasionally am gifted with answers.  I do not know if this is useful information to anyone -- but I know I get some pretty solid answers sometimes.  Off topic:  Does anyone else do this?  Can anyone else TRV, or dowse?  If yes, we might be able to pool together some "data gathering" -- see if that leads anywhere.

I think There are too many good ideas applied in this project -- to bring nothing to fruition.  At the very least, I'll get a brand new HHO torch, and can experiment with suggested silicone refinement, and odd matieral properties with HHO.  I can also use the HHO to bubble through olive oil, or water to "charge" it with a negative millivolt potential -- I've seen some good health results with this already -- this would help to produce more of the stuff.

But Enough about my ideas of how I will apply this project.  I simply know I also had a strong gut feeling to go with this project -- I also wish to ask Power1 many questions about the things he has done with ORME's, and seawater reactions. 

Call me crazy, I but it seemed as though he knows some of the things I have been trying to use/do for the past year or two, since I had my first experience with kundalini.  If anyone has any guidance, or wishes to collaborate, I will leave a spare email address it is -- askromo@gmail.com

Power1, if you read this, and are kind enough to reach out and share where you learned these things from, I would be very greatful.  If not, I understand -- I simply hope the next time you wish to share your ideas, or further your ideas -- to not leave so abruptly.  I feel you have AT LEAST a few people who are humbled by the information and work you share with us -- we ARE willing to listen, and experiment. 

Please, give us time.  In the least, I am working as fast as my own time will allow.  I am sorry if this does not produce results in your measure quickly enough.  I can only offer what I CAN do -- If what we have not offered enough -- I wish that you may be blessed with someone who may asborb the information in its entirety.

I have also done internet research based on the keywords you have left in multiple threads -- this leads to a large wealth of information, and books.  While I could pile through all of the information you have left in a year or so -- I wish to know which path you took, to better understand how I might apply this "databank" of tangents you've left us with.

If nothing else -- in spite of my desires and wishes -- thank you for sharing with us.  It is a feeling I get around my heart -- not organ-related.  I beleive this is sincerity -- I know you did not have to share this information, nor lead us on with further tangents (albeit, through several accounts) in spite of having been kicked several times.  I see the effort here.

I, in the least, very much appreciate the effort.  You are right -- the world is too F*cked up to not do anything about it.  I'm 20 years old, and I'm stepping up -- I want to help make a change.  I'm posting here, because I'm looking for help from any community to do so.

Anything you can share will be further appreciated.  If it is to me, I will share it with anyone who I know can use it -- If to others, I hope I may hear of it.

I have the procedure, (almost) all the matierals -- and will either improvise a lab, or rent part of my school's lab for a short time.  I will be working on this whether anyone else joins me or not -- I simply hope I am not alone in this pursuit.  It is much easier to realize a working machine with multiple people shooting in the dark -- instead of just one.

I hope I can exchange contact information with anyone else who is interested in working with this idea.

Please contact me via email, or through "PM" at the Energeticforum -- My username is also "petar113507".

I hope to be working with some of you, in order to find the ways in which it CAN work, instead of the ways which we THINK it won't work.  I beleive that we must think in the LIGHT, to see the truth in the workings of nature.


Peace,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 25, 2011, 08:07:05 PM
You will not pursue this project any more here in this forum, or period?

Not your call, but ours?  Please explain!  I for one am waiting on supplies I have ordered to complete this project!  Now you say you are dropping it!  Thanks!
Your call some call it self learning,  some call it enlightenment, I call it Natural Conscious when you are mature.

You still can not see what I have been trying to say all along. The mind virus has been rooted deeply into the populace, and it only lives if there is a host.

Please continue, I will lend a hand where needed, but will not pursue calling upon you to take action. Everyone my find their way at their own pace. You are the creator, please do create.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on February 25, 2011, 08:10:16 PM
Anyway, the final decision always belongs to experimenters. My concern here is to warn those unconscious/unaware ones.

There are always risks.  I can see it may have been with good intent -- but sometimes I just don't want to hear it.  I'll take my chances with the risk.

A reason why power1 may have been frustrated with your questions, was that he is trying to get people to go ON board with this project, to spread the knowledge of this kind of working device.  When you tell people too much about the inherent risks (which, should have already been analyzed by the experimenter) -- it sounds discouraging.  Discouraging prospects of a new project, can be frustrating for an inventor/tinkerer -- especially when they're trying to get people to replicate the project.

I ask, if power1 comes back -- is there a way to re-word your speculative concerns, so that it may be seen as furthering the discussion/troubleshooting of the project, instead of sounding discouraging to new prospects?  I ask this out of courtesy, because it appears (to me, at least) that this type of frustration, and mis-understandings were the things which made the project "dropped" by him.  I wish to pursue this project -- and I sure could use some guidance -- I can't have that direct council if he's "out".

I mean no foul play.  I only seek to bridge the communication gap here.
Peace,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 25, 2011, 08:12:14 PM
Great job Romo, you are well on your way. :)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 25, 2011, 11:45:04 PM
There is no defined path or short cut, everyone will have their own way, everyone is unique.

A little help for you first steps.

Work on you own, observe well, you have your own intellgence, Tesla was a loner so has been every other inventor that found good knowledge.

You can not cheat your way through Conscious, it may work in the lower realm that we all experience but it will only do more harm, be sincere.

Do not Believe, when someone has a Secret, run as fast as you can the other direction. Do not join groups or be fooled into being organized, you will be vulnerable to manipulation.

Stay away from the beaten path, you are the creator, create your own path, I did not learn a thing from these forums, conductyour own research, read old books. There was an interesting quote by Eric Dollard regarding the falsehood knowledge that is keeping everyone confused and lost.

There are sacrifices that you must make, when you are ready. Sentimental beings do not eat meat, find natural foods or grow your own, you are what you eat.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on February 26, 2011, 05:17:44 PM
 1st attempt at making crystals.  :-\

 It may save others from making the same mistake. I have no experience working with chemical or chem lab equipment.

The first problem i ran into was adjusting the temperature. This was much harder than expected.  I used water to dial in the Heater Stirrer. An hour latter i had the  test water at 138f with the stirrer on, so i referenced the dial.

First mistake, I underestimated vapors of the 30% Ammonium. (this is 10 time stronger than household stuff, but it seems 1000 times stronger) This stuff is a very serious chemical the vapors alone will burn your eyes. 
All I had to do was just pour it, and mixed some powder, then cover it. With the windows open, and exhaust fan on, this would be no problem, right? Wrong! It all had to go outside ASAP.
So now with the everything outside in a windy 55 degree environment my preset for the temp was way off and it took 40 minutes just to find 140 F. I continued the mix for 20 minutes more. (1 hour mixing instead 30 minutes)

 2nd mistake, I used a 1 litter pyrex bowl, The lid was a SS dog bowl with a rubber ring around the bottom. I fill the bowl with ice water to condensate the vapors. it worked in that it did condensate some of the vapors but the faster the stirrer was turned up the higher the pressure build and it did push the lid up and the ammonium did gas off a good bit. (this need to be kept in mind, the tighter the lid the higher the pressure could potentially get to high for the container. Caution needed)     

3rd the freezer is around 5F (not 32f) even when i turned it to its warmest setting.
(i had to leave and it stayed in the freezer 4 hours instead of 2)

I don't know if any of these mistakes render my crystals bad but i did learn what not to do. Hope this helps someone.



PS.  Like Altrez my nano-crystals look like powder sugar paste right now.   
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on February 26, 2011, 08:25:19 PM
fishman,  thanks for posting that.  I am not quite ready yet to make the crystals but I had assumed it would be best to do outside.  Thanks for confirming that as 30% ammonia is VERY strong.  I've got a portable hot plate (single stove top type 120 volt coil) for cooking that should work well for that.  I'd suggest everyone keep it outside or extremely well ventilated.  I remember long ago my Mother saying she had to go to the hospital one time from inhaling to much ammonia just from cleaning in a small space and that was probably just the 3% stuff. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on February 26, 2011, 11:55:44 PM
When you see how small these Nano cyrstals are something become's quite obvious. That is it looks as if i have put the cart before the horse.

The main thing that we need to complete this experiment is something to contain our nano crystals while in the water with the U Fogger.

Powerme AKA Power to be mentioned a
1. PEM envelope, (1-10 microns)
2. Tyvek mail envelope (which he ruled out)
3. Made mention of some type of material/envelopes inside car battery's 10 -30 microns

Has anyone found a source for ether 1 or 3???

He never mentioned the proximity these envelopes should be in relationship to the UF.

Im not clear on a few things.

1. Do the crystals (in their bag) have to be directly in the same bath with the UF?
Or does the water pick up some charge/___ just from coming in contact with the crystals?   

I don't imagine water would flow much though these bags.

Any opinions or ideas ?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: citfta on February 27, 2011, 01:37:18 AM
Guys I have found a source for nano particle size ZnO.  You can buy a 1 pound bag for $9.99 with free shipping.  I don't think we have to go to all this trouble and possibly danger to make our own.  Here is the link:

http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-103/Zinc-Oxide-Powder-ZnO/Detail

 Maybe this will save some effort and get us moving farther along.  I have some ordered and expect it in next week.  Does anyone know how much we actually need?  I don't recall Powerme saying how much we need.

Carroll
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on February 27, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
Carroll
I believe you can find what you need in these Docs That user Slovenia at energetic asked to be brought here.

Best Way to Use Heat From HHO to Generate Electricity
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274423/B...te-Electricity

Growing Crystals, Piezoelectric Energy Harvesting
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274617/G...rgy-Harvesting

Magnets on Fuel Line Experiment
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274519/M...ine-Experiment

Chet

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on February 27, 2011, 02:22:18 AM
cifta, that is a fine powder but not the crystals.  To make the crystals it has to be combined with ammonia by the process he has mentioned here and on energeticforum.  The crystals are what will help get some hydrogen out of the ultrasonic mist of water.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 27, 2011, 10:39:18 PM
I would like to thank you all for your continued efforts in this project. Sharing of your finding is great, but please continue to develop your own intelligence, see the result of others but only apply it if it makes sense to you. This process of self learning is no different from Pshycic development, where you are encouraged to connect with your own intelligence.

All of the answers are readily avaliable, look for it on your own way, there are many online forums, resources that will show you how to proceed with already known methods, read them, ask them questions, but only apply the Facts that makes sense to you.

I have been helped greatly from aborad, you can find tools to enable multiple-dialect communications, As long a you are sincere and understand that We are All Equal, others will be willing to share their findings with you openly and honestly.

These abilities will lead on to other great such as being able to self learn complex technologies in very little time that normally takes years to learn. You are the creator, allow your intelligence to grow and mature, enormous amounts of energy is around us, but you need the understanding to see your responsibilities.

Nature will only reveal herself to you and you only, everything is balanced, everything is ONE.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on February 27, 2011, 11:20:32 PM
I finally got my ammonium hydroxide and did try to grow some crystals. I think I succeeded. Photo1 is after freezer and before heating to 60 deg C for 2 hrs. Photo3 is after heating to 60 deg C for 2 hrs. and cooling to room temp. If you look close at the pics, you can see that there is more in Photo3.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on February 28, 2011, 06:21:32 PM
Are these dry crystals fragle?


The paint like paste does dry sticking to the container. Is there a preferred method to un-stick them?  Do we just scarp the dryed paste off the sides? does it mater?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 28, 2011, 09:44:21 PM
Are these dry crystals fragle?


The paint like paste does dry sticking to the container. Is there a preferred method to un-stick them?  Do we just scarp the dryed paste off the sides? does it mater?
You are the creator, what do you think is best?.

Good job RAD, now proceed to testing. Do not discard ammonium, save for next batch. Then fuse the same crystals with magnesium to achieve higher permittity. Methods already discussed.

For those of you that still do not understand the Power of Natural Intelligence, the whole mainstream knowledge of electricity was observed by Henry Cavendish and later theorized by James Maxwell. Tesla made major improvements.

While most of you are fascinated by Ismael's radiant car, You too have the power to achieve the same result if you choose to take control of your own reality. Ismael was self taught, but he seems to have fallen for the same bait of Greed. 

We are surrounded by energy, I have already discussed practical methods to harvesting energy directly from the enviroments, this knowledge is not new nor exotic, Photovoltaic effect of Lead Sulfide was first disclosed in 1904, and for the multi-aliases manipulators that don't have a clue of reality, check your facts, there is more properties of Silicon that you can not comprehend with your current state of false mentality.

Listen to your own intelligence, I will aid you only when necessary, you are very capable on you're own.

For those same party that are trying to takje this project private, It simply will not work, everyone is a Tesla, let's grow your intelligence so that Man will be Free.

There are already Artificial-Intelligence System bots that will penetrate and manipulate these discussions,  I suggest that you the People move, propergate and multiply these discussions to mainstream portals such as Facebook, Youtube etc. I will hep you there and so will many other honest decent human beings.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on February 28, 2011, 11:24:54 PM
Slovenia,
If you sincerely wish to pusue this project, then please utilize your energy and spread this project to other mainstream fields, create new posts in Chemistry, Ceramic, Metallurgy, HHO borards etc, there are many many ways to do this Piezoelectric HHO  production, you are only limited by your own imagination.

For those from other countries, start your own thread locally, while we are tinkering with 100 years old technology, others countries continue to accelerate far ahead, you can get help everywhere on basic questions that you may encounter. You own intelligence will easily solve your problem, China has more higher education graduates than the whole population of California and the West Coast combined!, and they will eagerly help you if you are sincere, honest and understand that We are all Equal.

You are the Teacher, You are the Creator, please take control of your own Reality, many more great things will follow. :)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 01, 2011, 01:06:02 AM
You are the creator, what do you think is best?.
I am not the creator. I am a guy trying to find out if there is any truth in what you originally claimed. If i deviate from your method too much i will not achieve that goal.

I'm not saying i wont be creative at some point, im just trying to understand and prove to myself that your idea actually works as you describe first. 


I made my decision to try these experiment based on you and your many the posts in many threads. Usually i understand the projects i start before i spend money, this project was an exception, so yes i could use help.

Some of the things you say lately are very bazaar to me. I've concluded that you ether genius with good intentions, or a escapee from a crazy house. More than like a little of both. I realize you not that interested in helping much more, but i will continue to ask questions in hope that if not you someone may have a good suggestion. I will also offer ideas where i can. I for one, do believe we all can learn from each other.   I'm just not one with nature yet :)
 



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 01, 2011, 03:19:28 AM
Allright -- things are starting to come in, and that means I'm a few steps closer to construction.

I thought I would briefly share a pricetag of the project so far -- For a prototype, this is relatively cheap.

Engine: 160CC Lawn mower engine -- 75$
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0226011601.jpg)

Bottom side:
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0226011603.jpg)

Ammonium Hydroxide: Janitorial grade 10% -- 6 Dollars at my local hardware store
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/photo.jpg)

Cooking Plate: 42 ish Dollars.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/photo2.jpg)

Masonry Jars: Quart Jars -- 12 Dollars
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/photo3.jpg)


Total So far: 135 $

(Plus Zinc crystals -- approx. 10 Dlls + free shipping)


As I'm hurrying up to wait while the zinc arrives, I was wondering -- Rad HHO -- How did you cook the crystals?  Was it with, or without a reflux condenser in your masonry jars?

I have been thinking I could drill out the top of the masonry jars, and use a valve and some aquarium tubing to make a makeshift condenser -- if it is nescessary at all.
I don't want to have one of these jars blow up on me -- But I was sort of hoping that the jars could withstand the pressures.

The next questions I have for the future:
1)Has anyone found any retailers for the sub-micron-pore bags?

2)What Kind of spark plugs have you decided to do?  I'm pretty sure Powerme suggested to use Kupra "firestorms" -- I'm just a little fuzzy on making them myself as of yet.  Does anyone have an idea if there might be an available "off the shelf" model to simply purchase?  I'm not entirely clear on what specifications I'm looking for the sparplug, or the driving circut.

Thanks Rad, and Power To Be -- It's nice to know someone else is working on this project.

When I get this thing to work -- I will be spreading the technology locally -- and will have some friends working with me in different cities for this.  :)

The future will be here shortly,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 01, 2011, 04:05:19 AM
I am not the creator. I am a guy trying to find out if there is any truth in what you originally claimed. If i deviate from your method too much i will not achieve that goal.

I'm not saying i wont be creative at some point, im just trying to understand and prove to myself that your idea actually works as you describe first. 


I made my decision to try these experiment based on you and your many the posts in many threads. Usually i understand the projects i start before i spend money, this project was an exception, so yes i could use help.

Some of the things you say lately are very bazaar to me. I've concluded that you ether genius with good intentions, or a escapee from a crazy house. More than like a little of both. I realize you not that interested in helping much more, but i will continue to ask questions in hope that if not you someone may have a good suggestion. I will also offer ideas where i can. I for one, do believe we all can learn from each other.   I'm just not one with nature yet :)

Hey fishman, great humor, thanks. I cannot forget the scent, I have given up seafood long time ago, Tesla turned 100% vegan too. While we’re discussing Tesla, I have no desire to be compared to this great man, He suffered the same treatment that I am encountering. Name calling, Madness etc., etc., I thought we were already pass this stage?.

Fishman, If you cannot believe in yourself then please STOP right there. Save yourself the time and hassle.
I have already discussed ways to proceed with this project that is not expensive. You can make zinc oxide from Zamak, you can find zamak easily, old cars, electronics, car transmission, motor casing etc. If you use transmission Zamak, go online and find out what class it is, make, model, year simple search will tell you what it is. Use sodium hydroxide to oxidize zamac which has high zinc content, you can refine further by using floathing method etc.

There are many ways to make these crystals, it can be done with Red Phosphorus reflux, Sulfur etc. but we will stick with Ammnium as everyone can get it easily. Ditillaton has already been discussed.
This invention belongs to Dingle,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_WJfFzBe28&feature=related
He encountered legal problem, same scenario with all other non-petroleum technology.  Dingle never did reveal his secret, but after watching his clip, I made an atomizing chamber out of an old battery using ceramic piezo transducers and ZnO crystals, and I was able to produce the same result.

My work on crystal is not limited to Internal Combustion Engines as it I have been able to modify lattice of PbS to harvest Radiant Energy directly, the same principle Tesla originated and further developed by many others.

Hey Slovenia, please no hard feeling from my earlier comment,  the understanding is unique to everyone, some people may have to go through endless lifetimes where as others  can achieve it in a matter of seconds, if you feel that you are ready, then please do proceed.


If you wish to commercialize this project, please do proceed, I had mentioned other fields and they will be very helpful with new inputs that you may not have been able to see on your own. I have no interest in the application of this project, but others will have useful purpose for it.
When you understand the meaning of life, of nature etc., everything materialistic no longer have value, you will see that money is just pieces of paper, assets are mere possessions,  the only thing of value is Life itself.


Good job petar, this is not the greatest technology, there are other greater things, but this is a good start.



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 01, 2011, 05:19:50 AM
link to Daniel Dingles site with more informtion and certificates of tests, his piezo transducers are much more effecient, I don't know of his formulation but it seems he's able to fracture HHO with only 36watts, you can use off the shelf transducers that will produce enough HHO t run a 2.4litre engine consuming under 300 watts, fine tuning will bring it down to 100 watts.

http://danieldingel.com/
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 01, 2011, 06:47:57 AM
I am not the creator. I am a guy trying to find out if there is any truth in what you originally claimed. If i deviate from your method too much i will not achieve that goal.

I'm not saying i wont be creative at some point, im just trying to understand and prove to myself that your idea actually works as you describe first. 


I made my decision to try these experiment based on you and your many the posts in many threads. Usually i understand the projects i start before i spend money, this project was an exception, so yes i could use help.

Some of the things you say lately are very bazaar to me. I've concluded that you ether genius with good intentions, or a escapee from a crazy house. More than like a little of both. I realize you not that interested in helping much more, but i will continue to ask questions in hope that if not you someone may have a good suggestion. I will also offer ideas where i can. I for one, do believe we all can learn from each other.   I'm just not one with nature yet :)

Not bazaar.  I call it new age, unity consciousnes, enlightened, heart consciousness, genius or one who listens to the 'small still voice within' (as taught by author Susan Shumsky) .... it's all very familiar to me.  I'm glad to see Power to Be is still around.
    petar113507,  for being 20 y.o. you are way ahead of the crowd.  If you were 50 y.o. you would still be way ahead of the rest.  I think right here on this forum will be a good place to do group work unless the trolls get to heavy.  If that happens there are many alternatives. 
   Still waiting to get some ammonia as I'm far from any sources and I doubt ordering online is affordable as it's surely a hazardous liquid with high shipping cost.  I'll likely have some soon when we make our semi-annual trek into civilization :) 
   I'd ask everyone to communicate here but if another forum or place gets especially active on this please post a link to it in this thread.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 01, 2011, 08:34:54 AM
@Petar
I did not use a reflux condenser.  I did however use a one gallon zip lock bag filled with ice sat on top, hanging down on the sides of the jar.  Yeah I was concerned about the jar exploding too, so I took it outside and placed it inside a large 48 qt cooler.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 01, 2011, 02:46:57 PM
 
   Still waiting to get some ammonia as I'm far from any sources and I doubt ordering online is affordable as it's surely a hazardous liquid with high shipping cost.  I'll likely have some soon when we make our semi-annual trek into civilization :)

I got 500ml 30% for $15, the shipping was $15 dollars, it took about 3 days. The science company. www.sciencecompany.com  It would be nice to find it locally.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 01, 2011, 03:44:41 PM
Not bazaar.  I call it new age, unity consciousnes, enlightened, heart consciousness, genius or one who listens to the 'small still voice within' (as taught by author Susan Shumsky) .... it's all very familiar to me.  I'm glad to see Power to Be is still around.
   
Yeah im glad to see he is still around and that he gets my humor also. :)

I do understand a little about New Age. But the part i find very confusing (or bazaar) is when The power to be says "Just believe in yourself and you can do it". What does that mean? For face value the words don't add up to much for me.
 Of course i believe i can do this.

On the other hand, many people believe they can do things but fail every day. Believing you can do something, and success in doing something are not always 100%. Look at the dozens of folks who tried and are still trying to replicate Fast Freddy's cell.

What I don't believe is that i could have done this, and many other things Ive succeeded at, by myself. I rely on my internet, i rely on my computer, i rely on the forum host, i rely on the participants, and all the people that made those tools and ideas available, that list goes on and on. So to think, or believe, i can do this or anything on my own, seems bazaar.  It appears to me that we are interdependent and that that is not a bad thing. FWIW 
 
Since this is off topic, if you care to explain this maybe you could PM me. Thanks
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 01, 2011, 03:52:01 PM
I got 500ml 30% for $15, the shipping was $15 dollars, it took about 3 days. The science company. www.sciencecompany.com  It would be nice to find it locally.

I got mine on E-Bay. 1000ml for $27 total. Got it in one week.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=120688102947&index=0&nav=SEARCH&nid=97191406678
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: geotrouvetout on March 01, 2011, 03:58:14 PM
Hi all,

the melting point of ammonium hydroxyde is lower than the water, maybe it's more easy to have high concentration of ammonium hydroxyde by freezing instead of evaporating and condensing, just a thought.

Geo ;)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 01, 2011, 04:01:38 PM

I don't want to have one of these jars blow up on me -- But I was sort of hoping that the jars could withstand the pressures.

The next questions I have for the future:
1)Has anyone found any retailers for the sub-micron-pore bags?

2)What Kind of spark plugs have you decided to do?  I'm pretty sure Powerme suggested to use Kupra "firestorms" -- I'm just a little fuzzy on making them myself as of yet.  Does anyone have an idea if there might be an available "off the shelf" model to simply purchase?  I'm not entirely clear on what specifications I'm looking for the sparplug, or the driving circut.



1.  Im still looking myself. It would be nice to find a source for this material.

2 The power to be said E 3 spark plugs http://www.e3sparkplugs.com/ would be better than standard plugs you can get them at O-Reilly's automotive and some other part places
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 01, 2011, 05:32:48 PM
Hi All,

Could you replace the zinc crystals with atomized quartz crystals?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 01, 2011, 06:10:49 PM
RAD, conduct simple test with Luc’s spark circuit, record your result and continue, don’t need to be more complicated, simple is better.

Fishman, the purpose of this project is to teach folks Nature’s Truth knowledge, transmutation, element phases, elements properties etc.  etc. These things are not taught in School. Give people the proper knowledge and people will have the abilities to do ANYTHING!!, Folks, you do not have the slightest idea of your True Potential, You can be as knowledgeable as Tesla, if you choose to observe nature and listen to your own Intelligence.

Kapanadze, Ismael Aviso etc, they only found their knowledge from self learning. By continuing with the Installed System of knowledge, you are only parroting falsehood knowledge such as Einstein and Thompson, I never did subscribe to those views, jargons such as neurons is a legalese to describe Nature which is useless.

Dream think, you can use any piezoelectric crystals, quartz, transitional crystals, you just need to transmute crystals by fusion with high energy elements like ammonium, this results in higher piezoelectrochemical activity. I use ZnO because it resonates well above 40khz, the range where water freely dissociates.

Geo, yes, water will freeze at -0 C, this will yield anhydrous ammonium which requires extreme care, I suggest that everyone only use Sola Distillation to make 30% unless you have the proper facilities to store 100% freeze separated ammonium.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 01, 2011, 06:52:26 PM
How do you listen to yourself, to your intelligence?.
I cannot answer that, only you can.

How did you learn to walk, how did you learn to speak?.
Do blindfold tasting, blindfold walking a straight line?.

How did you do that?.
Only you can answer that, but I'll give you a hint, it only happens if you are sincere and honest. Understand tht we are all Equal, only then will you become your own Teacher.

How do you read 1000 wpm and have patience in waiting for your unconscious to catch up?, how do you do bizarre things like leaving your body, encountering other Intelligence beings?,  that is bazaar things that I experience but wish to leave out of discussions.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 01, 2011, 07:05:21 PM
How do you listen to yourself, to your intelligence?.
I cannot answer that, only you can.

How did you learn to walk, how did you learn to speak?.
Do blindfold tasting, blindfold walking a straight line?.

How did you do that?.
Only you can answer that, but I'll give you a hint, it only happens if you are sincere and honest. Understand tht we are all Equal, only then will you become your own Teacher.

How do you read 1000 wpm and have patience in waiting for your unconscious to catch up?, how do you do bizarre things like leaving your body, encountering other Intelligence beings?,  that is bazaar things that I experience but wish to leave out of discussions.

Makes sense, you are a spirit with a body.

I'm ordering stuff for this project, too. I already have the plasma discharge circuit setup correctly, I'm sure that will cause results even without the crystals.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 01, 2011, 08:01:19 PM
Thank you Super God, you are the Spirit, allow you're spirit to grow and mature, then you will be able to do anything.

You're current state of mentality is no difference from a caged Lion, in Nature you have freedom and posses extra sensory, but confined in a cage, you then become same as all other domesticated pets.

The knowledge you posses is like telling a Bee to ONLY make honey from citrus, and after many generations, you only know how to make citrus honey, Imagine the possibilities if you wandered off and tasted pollen of other trees!.

Do not believe what others are saying, Do not believe me either!, Only Believe yourself, that is how you learn. From observing your own work.
Do not subscribe to organizations, religions  etc, they will only hinder your development, ofcourse they are good for socializing but only apply Facts if they make sense to you first.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 01, 2011, 08:40:53 PM

The next questions I have for the future:
1)Has anyone found any retailers for the sub-micron-pore bags?


On Powerme suggestion.

I did tare apart a small lawnmower battery today. 24 PEM envelopes where inside 5" x 4".
Water does not seem to flow through them at all.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 01, 2011, 09:23:55 PM
One thing I am confused on is, if the crystals are not wet, how will they make HHO? I am totally new to this crystal stuff, but it seems to have promise.

Do we dump the crystals in the water so they pick up the waves? Can the crystals make HHO from inside the bag, even if they aren't touching water? I will experiment once I get the necessary equipment.

I know my (capacitor70's) circuit causes water to react anomalously and "explode" in the cylinder when subjected to high current, but I do not know why. Perhaps it is doing the same thing the crystals do.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 01, 2011, 11:13:02 PM
Hey Super God,
Do know that we are al Equal
My envelope was my method of measuring piezoelectrochemical effeciencies of several different types of crystals in a controlled manner effectively.

Forget about the envelope, just put your crystals in the water and conduct your test, the crystal needs to make contact with the waves, envelope blocks most of the waves. You need to permanently adhere crystals to a surface, you decide what you think is best. Porous composite, electro plating, aerated ceramic, etc.

Where we are heading is the Forbidden Zones of knowledge, and You will get LOST is you continue with your current understanding.

The ZnO refluxed with NH3 under pressure forces NH3 to bind with ZnO at molecular level, same principle employed at Gene Modification where atom size particles of other elements are bombarded into living cell.

What causes these transmutation?.
What are the electrical properties of these elements?.
What are their electrochemical properties?.
What causes piezo electrical conversion of acoustic waves?.
What is a wave, why is it not called a helix, there are 2 equalized intertwined forces isn't there?.
Why do elements known transmute or transform into other known elements, what is the cause?.

There are other many fascinating things that you will learn, phase changes that occurs, what causes them, how to control them etc.

You are the Teacher, you are the Creator, there are many powerful things that I wish never to disclose as you first need to understand Nature and the Responsibilities that lays behind these Wisdom.

I can control the forces of nature and so can you!.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 02, 2011, 12:40:07 AM
Hey Super God,
Do know that we are al Equal
My envelope was my method of measuring piezoelectrochemical effeciencies of several different types of crystals in a controlled manner effectively.

Forget about the envelope, just put your crystals in the water and conduct your test, the crystal needs to make contact with the waves, envelope blocks most of the waves. You need to permanently adhere crystals to a surface, you decide what you think is best. Porous composite, electro plating, aerated ceramic, etc.

Where we are heading is the Forbidden Zones of knowledge, and You will get LOST is you continue with your current understanding.

The ZnO refluxed with NH3 under pressure forces NH3 to bind with ZnO at molecular level, same principle employed at Gene Modification where atom size particles of other elements are bombarded into living cell.

What causes these transmutation?.
What are the electrical properties of these elements?.
What are their electrochemical properties?.
What causes piezo electrical conversion of acoustic waves?.
What is a wave, why is it not called a helix, there are 2 equalized intertwined forces isn't there?.
Why do elements known transmute or transform into other known elements, what is the cause?.

There are other many fascinating things that you will learn, phase changes that occurs, what causes them, how to control them etc.

You are the Teacher, you are the Creator, there are many powerful things that I wish never to disclose as you first need to understand Nature and the Responsibilities that lays behind these Wisdom.

I can control the forces of nature and so can you!.

Do you subscribe to the Pantheistic theory, in that we all as a whole compose everything? I don't know about that (I am Spiritist) but I do know that this information is for the benefit of Humanity as a whole.

I do realize we are equals. Thank you for your advice, I will try to adhere them to one of the surfaces in the container. As far as lost, I'm already dazed and confused, but I will try and see if I can understand what is going on.

Thanks again for the base information!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 02, 2011, 05:08:58 AM
Do you subscribe to the Pantheistic theory, in that we all as a whole compose everything? I don't know about that (I am Spiritist) but I do know that this information is for the benefit of Humanity as a whole.

I do realize we are equals. Thank you for your advice, I will try to adhere them to one of the surfaces in the container. As far as lost, I'm already dazed and confused, but I will try and see if I can understand what is going on.

Thanks again for the base information!
I am not aware of this Theory, generally I would just listen to what one will have to say and absorb only what makes sense to me. However the God concept does help those that are starting out, but one must know that such Universal Ruler and Law does not exist, there are other intelligence entities but we are all equal.

Everything is just ONE, there is no seperation, what you experience is your own manifested delusion.

For those new to this thread, I sometime respond to question from Energetic Forum and quote them here as I no longer am allowed to post there due to their private and regulated laws and beliefs.

I have already covered the safety concerns regarding NH3, maintain reflux temperature at 60 C by cooling and excessive pressure will not accumulate. Just use the largest Mason Jar that you can find, 1/2 gallon with moist towel wrapped on top portion constantly sprayed with water to remove excess heat.

You are free to do whatever that you wish to build, there is no particular method here, just like building an automobile, all styles allowed and all will be drivable.



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 02, 2011, 08:23:33 AM
Some of you may question my sanity or may have a hard time grasping the fact or validity of the things that I have said. Let me tell you this, your projected reality is planned and  engenieered values that you have voluntarily installed upon yourself.

The GOD concept is a timeless control method mechanism that has been deployed successfully for eons,  "I do not believe in God - I do not report to him." - Baron Benjamin de Rothschild, a recent interview of one of the highest rank of the Elites.

These transmutation effects are not new, We Humans posses many different qualities, some choose to modify their own DNA to accumulate power over others, longetivity, god abilities etc, the methods are already known. A few take advantage of the opportunity to finish this life cycle and continue on, it is just a Phase Change.

You are what counts, yourself only, nothing else matters, but 99.9% of the population still do not understand this fact. Your incomplete after life is also controlled where 99.9% will be re-incarnated  and the whole process continued all over again.

You have the power to make the change now, but it is your call not mine.

 This is also out of topic in regards to our project so I wish not to discuss it further.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 02, 2011, 05:18:37 PM
Altrez have posted his findings,  please absorb only what makes sense to you, do not continue with the old habit of Believing, conduct your own test and observe the result, that is the only way that you will ever learn.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 02, 2011, 08:50:29 PM
Slovenia 
Senior Member   Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City, Missouri (USA)
Posts: 560 
 
No Offense Taken Power1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Power1. No offense taken. You are a very good teacher and I want to see the light.

Also, I like the oriental peoples very much. They are very hard working; very eager to help others; very courteous; and they have very keen minds. I wish one of them would help me reach the next level of being able to communicate with the higher self.

Thanks again for all your help and your responses!!
 
Slovenia 
Senior Member   Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City, Missouri (USA)
Posts: 560 
 
Power1 (Response to reply #55 on OU)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Power1,

Those that are trying to duplicate your experiments do not question your sanity and/or the validity of what you have shared. What you have shared however is hard for I think most of us to grasp since we do not know how to plug in to this power within ourselves that you talk about. What you have shared concerning this concept is pretty incredible and I think most of the persons I know would like to be able to utilize this method. It is very foreign to us however and elusive to understand how to apply it. I don't know how to apply it and I have been trying to get in touch with that source you refer to but to no avail.

Anyway, what you have shared concerning the power within all of us is I think very pertinent to this project. It is not only interesting but a science that needs to be grasped by all of us so that we can achieve the endeavor you have put before us concerning the crystals and piezoelectric scenario.

Thanks again for continuing to share with us. I know I appreciate it very much.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slovenia,
You are the source, yourself only.

I am not your Teacher, no one is, only you. For as long as you continue to look elsewhere in books, peers, authorities etc., you will continue to surpress, rob yourself and sabotage your own development.

Why peek through a tiny little whole with TRV when you, yourself is the whole, why continue to hold on to false knowledge when it is the barrier that blocks you from your own intelligence. A fictious book once quote that a camel will easily pass through the eye of a needle where as one with vast accumulation of possesions such as parroted knowledge will never be able to pass.

The knowledge is only self taught, there is no ther way. Perhaps your current purpose is to continue with your current occult, If I were you, I would put in all efforts and conduct many other  virtuous deeds, perhaps you may have the chance in another life time.

Best of Luck to you.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 02, 2011, 11:17:49 PM
"Man, not being able to make himself God, would fain make himself out to be, at least, a part of God."
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 03, 2011, 07:11:26 PM
Super God
Sr. Member

Posts: 383

Dark backward abysm of time...

 
   (No subject)
« Sent to: The Power To Be on: March 02, 2011, 11:18:27 PM » Quote Reply Save PM Remove   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"God exists. You cannot doubt His existence, and that is one essential point. Do not seek to go beyond it; do not lose yourselves in a labyrinth which, for you, is without an issue. Such inquiries would not make you better; they would rather tend to add to your pride, by causing you to imagine that you knew something, while, in reality, you would know nothing. Put aside systems. You have things enough to think about that concern you much more nearly, beginning with yourselves. Study your own imperfections, that you may get rid of them; this will be far more useful to you than the vain attempt to penetrate the impenetrable."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 The force that you doth attain to is not All.
We are the whole, each and everyone of the sentimental beings.

How does man attain the knowledge?.
1. By GOD love

2. By DOG evol

One that chooses cunningness and  parably will remain a coded man but a Dog that has evol is edoc of the universe.

I have already disclosed all that you need to proceed. Do not Believe, continue your learning.
Best of luck to you all.

Farewell.

Mod: Please delete this account.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 04, 2011, 12:54:38 AM
Personally, I was hoping you could drop us some more clues Powerme.
   :-\

Please, keep in touch, or check on our progress from time to time.  What you were describing with the lead sulfide crystals, is something I wished you had shared a few more tidbits with us.

Why is there this necessity you have to leave?  :(

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 04, 2011, 01:38:48 AM
Farewell Notes:
The eternal ignorance and arrogance of Man.

The History of Humanity has been a long cycle of surpressor and the surpressed, sinner and the sinned against, voilent and the victim. It is has been a non ending cycle that will continue forever. Do not fall victim to the prank, You have your own Brain, you have your own intelligence, Use it.

It is time that you STOP letting the small 1% of the population called the Elite Ruling Class continue their corruptive manipulation. It is time for you to THINK for yourself, Free Energy does EXIST but it will never materialize if you continue to follow the Lies and False Knowledge that is your current Habit.

Do not Believe, that is how you fall victim to their LIES, Do not join any group such as Slovenia, or any of the Authorities in these Forum, avoid following any of the Long time Researchers that have been posting endlessly, DEMAND evidence from them, Demand working prototype.

I will not show you a working prototype because I want you to Learn on your Own, Use your own brain, think for yourself, it is not that hard. You do have higher intelligence that resides within you. Allow it to grow and prosper. If you question my Ethic, then May your GOD help you, I do not have any EGO, nor should you, we are all equal.

Common people like you and me are getting tired of the abuse, not only of the Economic Slavery, Mental Slavery, Spiritual Slavery but also of their brutality, murdering, torture etc. There is an uprising that is taking momentum worldwide, this is your Chance to Stand UP and Free yourself.

Romo:
I will no longer post here, complicated issue.
Continue your work, show me progress.

Post youtube, I will lend a hand there, I will  give you my production method for PbS, when you are ready, show me first.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 04, 2011, 08:58:21 PM
ROMO
All canadian posted this on another thread,I don't know why but I never heard it put quite like this!
Quote:
"give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him to fish and he will never go hungry", but once I have taught you how to fish then what good am I?.
-----------------------------------
Chet
PS
ROMO
You ain't the only fish in the bowl!
There's a reason for that!
Mingle Bro..................................
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 05, 2011, 10:53:39 AM
ROMO
All canadian posted this on another thread,I don't know why but I never heard it put quite like this!
Quote:
"give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him to fish and he will never go hungry", but once I have taught you how to fish then what good am I?.
-----------------------------------
Chet
PS
ROMO
You ain't the only fish in the bowl!
There's a reason for that!
Mingle Bro..................................
Chet, Romo and All that stands taller.
I am glad to know that I am all Canadian, All of your responses carries the sender's natural imprint, it doesn't matter what type of  instrument they are trying to play, your key is still the same. Stop inflicting harm upon yourelf, the price is hefty, let me tell you this.

I am not to continue but feel obligated to help any pesron wishing to make the transition. The system of hierarchy is old and far penetrating the entire world causing reversal  in the core of humanity.

While  you tend to upkeep your shop, earning your wage but Now know that Gold was not intended for legal tender, it's much more valuable within you, but the wiser would rather earn copper, and the elders may prefer mercury, but the wisest of  all will not dare indulge as Nature is much more pleasant.

One that fails to see Our Equality and continues to value possesions and will forever be blinded by the consquences. A fool is just a tool, very dispensable and easily replacable. The world is at their disposal, You now have the Power to make the Change, your chance may not come again!.

Socrates had paved the way, the Renaissance accelerated the self  intellectual transformation, but they feared of loosing control and massive efforts had resulted in our current confinement and containment.

I once seeked God and found that I was him, but after I knew that I know nothing, I saw that I was a Dog, and glad to know of who I am, Nature allowed me  to evol.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 05, 2011, 03:25:50 PM
Powers
Its nice to know that you Created yourself!
But that takes all the "Fun" out of life!?[The "Knowing" part]

Fare thee well..................................................
Chet
PS
Oh, and if you ever really want to "teach a man to Fish" [no strings attached]?
Come on back!
Your taunts make you look uppity and mean![Perhaps that's just my ignorant perception]

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 06, 2011, 11:45:39 PM
Good to know the feeling wasn't just mine, although, don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your sharing of this information.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 07, 2011, 08:43:07 PM
Good job Romo.

Ramset, EF forum, FCR etc and those Standing Tall.
There is no Religion being marketed here, As I do not subscribe to Organized Faith where
Man is robbed of his intelligence in exchange for Beliefs without Proof.


You can NEVER understand the Forces of Nature if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND yourself first. It is that simple.
How can you liberate water Gaseous fuel without undertanding the Aether bond that holds bind in the first place. And you will not know the properties of Transmutation if you do not DO the experiment. It is not taught anywhere, WHY?, because NATURE is abundant, everything is right infront of YOU!.

How can you harvet the waves if you DO NOT KNOW the properties of the body that moves in the water, creating others motion in perpetual and continue until the limit of material space and immensity.

You can not use Math here as you will wander off with infinite equations that holds NOT a single FACT to Reality, The only way for you to LEARN is by doing the Work and Observing, BY YOURSELF ONLY, use your own intelligent, other interference  will only hinder the  the progress. Differrent Phases of Water, from making Water Fuel to Cold Fusion and many other fascinating possibilities.
 

Tesla described relativity as "a beggar wrapped in purple whom ignorant people take for a king."

Beginners, this is a Good Read.
"Occult Ether Physics". This book is dedicated to the rediscovery of, examination of, and the integration of these secrets into the public knowledge. Because of the last 76 or more years of progressively intensifying false propaganda and manipulation of knowledge and science, a majority of
scientists ridicule the concepts of the existence of an ether and of flying saucers, as if such thinking belonged in the category of a "flat earth" theory and the "little green men" from outer space babblings, but the reverse is true.

The proponents of Relativism and the Big Bang (the "Big Bangers") want you to believe that the universe is finite, so that, if you go "too far", you will "fall off the universe", rather than off a "flat earth".
What's the difference? Flat earth...finite universe...they're both dumb theories.

And what do the "little green men" lies have to do with exclusively man-made electric flying machines, and technology based on sound and well-established electrical science and physics, but  which, like the existence of the ether, has been tucked away in secret vaults, to keep you from using
it, while you are being fed false and useless "theories"? These range from "curved space", "time travel", "Big Bang", and "alien abduction" stories, to "parallel universe", "interdimensional travel", and any other
outrageously incredible stories, concocted by government spooks, national security personnel, and secret agents in the "UFOlogy" and "pseudodebunker" communities ("pseudo-debunkers" in my vernacular, are official government spokesmen or scientific know-it-alls whose job it is to completely deny the existence of flying saucers, or to ridicule their other covert government counterparts, the UFOlogists, new-agers, or
paranormalists).
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 07, 2011, 08:58:13 PM
The Human Quality Needed:
Virtue (Latin: virtus, Greek: ἀρετή "arete") is moral excellence. A virtue is a trait or quality deemed to be morally excellent and thus is valued as a foundation of principle and good moral being.

You do not need ANYONE to teach you, as you already have these qualities but buried deep within you.

You need to know how Nature works, the Free Energy is abundant in the enviroment, all you have to do is Harvest it. But  How can you Harvest energy if you DO NOT HAVE a clue of what they are.

Transmute, the phases of Elements, how the work, it is simple!. It is no different from going to a lake and taking water with a bucket. Examples of virtues include:

ability
acceptance
altruism
assertiveness
attention, focus
autonomy
awareness
balance
benevolence
candor
caring
caution
charity
chastity
citizenship
cleanliness
commitment
compassion
confidence
conscientiousness
consideration
contentment
cooperativeness
courage
courteousness
creativity
curiosity
dependability
detachment
determination
 diligence
discernment
ethical egoism
empathy
encouragement
endurance
enthusiasm
equanimity
fairness
faithfulness, fidelity
flexibility
foresight
forgiveness
fortitude
friendliness
generosity
gentleness
goodness
gratitude, appreciation
helpfulness
honesty
honor
hopefulness
hospitality
humility
humor
impartiality
independence
individualism
industriousness
 integrity
intuition
inventiveness
justice
kindness
knowledge
logic
lovingness
loyalty
meekness
mercy
mindfulness
moderation
modesty
morality
nonviolence
nurturing
obedience
openness
optimism
order
patience
peacefulness
perseverance
philomathy
piety
potential
poverty
prudence
purity
purposefulness
reason
 readiness
remembrance
resilience
respectfulness
responsibility
restraint, self control
reverence
salubrity
self-awareness
self-confidence
self-discipline
self-reliance
self-respect
sensitivity
service
sharing
sincerity
spirituality
stability
strength
sympathy
tactfulness
temperance
tenacity
thankfulness
thoughtfulness
trustworthiness
truthfulness
understanding
unity
vigilance
wisdom
wit
 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 07, 2011, 10:43:33 PM
You left out paranoid.

I'm not a "bad guy" [the out to get you kind]!
I am here trying to make a difference,sometimes attempting to get fellows that "beat around the bush"
Or give "clues" etc to techs that could change our world.to just spit it out!!
I don't want them handing rifles to my boys,or yours,or to young men like Romo,or superGod!
Thats why I'm here!

Why are you here??
Chetkremens@gmail.com [Thats me]
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 08, 2011, 04:19:10 AM
Ramset,
Read the most recent posts I've made.

I don't think anyone else will spoon feed you guys any more.  It's all there.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-16.html

I would also appreciate it if you left your age-based prejudices at the door. 
We youngsters are here to help too.

Peace,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 08, 2011, 07:15:06 AM
Just to verify, when we take it out of the freezer (before reflux) we put the flask in room temp water. Then, assuming I don't have a condenser, I would tighten the rubber stopper and apply heat to the flask until it is at 60C for 2 hours.

Sounds easy enough, this is the only step that caused me to stumble a bit, once I do it Im sure it'll come to me.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 08, 2011, 08:03:28 AM
Good job Romo.

Ramset, EF forum, FCR etc and those Standing Tall.
There is no Religion being marketed here, As I do not subscribe to Organized Faith where
Man is robbed of his intelligence in exchange for Beliefs without Proof.


You can NEVER understand the Forces of Nature if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND yourself first. It is that simple.
How can you liberate water Gaseous fuel without undertanding the Aether bond that holds bind in the first place. And you will not know the properties of Transmutation if you do not DO the experiment. It is not taught anywhere, WHY?, because NATURE is abundant, everything is right infront of YOU!.

How can you harvet the waves if you DO NOT KNOW the properties of the body that moves in the water, creating others motion in perpetual and continue until the limit of material space and immensity.

You can not use Math here as you will wander off with infinite equations that holds NOT a single FACT to Reality, The only way for you to LEARN is by doing the Work and Observing, BY YOURSELF ONLY, use your own intelligent, other interference  will only hinder the  the progress. Differrent Phases of Water, from making Water Fuel to Cold Fusion and many other fascinating possibilities.
 

Tesla described relativity as "a beggar wrapped in purple whom ignorant people take for a king."

Beginners, this is a Good Read.
"Occult Ether Physics". This book is dedicated to the rediscovery of, examination of, and the integration of these secrets into the public knowledge. Because of the last 76 or more years of progressively intensifying false propaganda and manipulation of knowledge and science, a majority of
scientists ridicule the concepts of the existence of an ether and of flying saucers, as if such thinking belonged in the category of a "flat earth" theory and the "little green men" from outer space babblings, but the reverse is true.

The proponents of Relativism and the Big Bang (the "Big Bangers") want you to believe that the universe is finite, so that, if you go "too far", you will "fall off the universe", rather than off a "flat earth".
What's the difference? Flat earth...finite universe...they're both dumb theories.

And what do the "little green men" lies have to do with exclusively man-made electric flying machines, and technology based on sound and well-established electrical science and physics, but  which, like the existence of the ether, has been tucked away in secret vaults, to keep you from using
it, while you are being fed false and useless "theories"? These range from "curved space", "time travel", "Big Bang", and "alien abduction" stories, to "parallel universe", "interdimensional travel", and any other
outrageously incredible stories, concocted by government spooks, national security personnel, and secret agents in the "UFOlogy" and "pseudodebunker" communities ("pseudo-debunkers" in my vernacular, are official government spokesmen or scientific know-it-alls whose job it is to completely deny the existence of flying saucers, or to ridicule their other covert government counterparts, the UFOlogists, new-agers, or
paranormalists).

The book powerme refers to above 'Occult Ether Physics' by William Lyne is indeed a good read as well as his other book.  You can get it right here in the downloads section : http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=404
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 08, 2011, 08:29:07 AM
Just to verify, when we take it out of the freezer (before reflux) we put the flask in room temp water. Then, assuming I don't have a condenser, I would tighten the rubber stopper and apply heat to the flask until it is at 60C for 2 hours.

Sounds easy enough, this is the only step that caused me to stumble a bit, once I do it Im sure it'll come to me.

If you don't have a reflux tube -- you're going to want to watch out for pressure build up.
I would suggest a cooling mechanism of some sort on the top of a flask -- or maybe a failsafe "pop top", so that the glass/flask doesn't explode.  :o

I don't want anyone getting hurt by being careless (by not calibrating/compensating for the pressure build up), Please be careful. :-[

The Masonry jars worked beautifully, because they are pretty pressure & heat resistant -- Plus there is a large space in the top of the jar for the gas to cruise around on top. 
I used a bag of ice atop the masonry jar (was not my idea though) -- and the metal lid allowed the top to get rid of heat pretty well.

For your 'hiccup' in the process, The reason you would take the flask out of the ice water -- and let it sit in the room temp. water for about 5 mins or so, is so that the flask does not shatter from thermal shock.

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 08, 2011, 01:04:05 PM
Romo
Thank you ,

Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 08, 2011, 04:50:45 PM
WOW
I apologize to all involved here!
I did not understand this is Two threads on two different Forums [these things happen]
Thanks
Slovenia

A special apology to Powerme!

EF
Link[from Romo]
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-16.html
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 08, 2011, 07:06:31 PM
I have a condenser tube, so doing some research on the use of these things, it would appear that the flask would be boiling the vapors would go up and somehow go down the tube where they would condense and drop into the cool flask in the cold water bath. I'm gonna add a few more parts to the list just in case, so I can do this properly.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 08, 2011, 08:18:08 PM
Good job Romo.

Ramset, EF forum, FCR etc and those Standing Tall.
There is no Religion being marketed here, As I do not subscribe to Organized Faith where
Man is robbed of his intelligence in exchange for Beliefs without Proof.




Tesla described relativity as "a beggar wrapped in purple whom ignorant people take for a king."

 

Do have to keep going back to this in order to teach your piezo water fuel technology?

"Religion
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

You don't think what you're saying falls in this category? at least the first half.

Insulting against other peoples beliefs. Really? Do you really think this is helpful? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Edited

I cooled down. Sorry all

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 08, 2011, 08:22:42 PM
Fishman,
So the Dude has beliefs ?

BE COOL............

It be what it be!
So................... "let it be"

Chet
PS
See also
EnergeticForum Link[from Romo]
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-16.html



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 08, 2011, 08:33:35 PM
Fishman,
So the Dude has beliefs ?

BE COOL............

It be what it be!
So................... "let it be"

Chet

What ?

We all have beliefs. Nothing wrong with that.
Im talking but referring to others beliefs as ignorant... that all.
Also asking us to follow his beliefs to get questions answered (mainly on the other thread).  Maybe im wrong about the second part, but not about the first.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: MasterPlaster on March 08, 2011, 08:42:36 PM

For those who are critical of power to be, I only ask you to ask yourself,
What would you do with free energy if you had it?
How would free energy help the humanity and our planet?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 08, 2011, 11:25:40 PM
great
job guys, we're almost there. RAD, what caused your poor result?

fishman, What binds H2 + O, that is what you need to control,  What is it?.  It's the link that connects everything, When you understand, then you will Know that there is no seperation, dividing knowledge into seperated fields of studies will only confuse you more.
You will only Learn more if you Know who you are first, Do not wait for your Death experience as it will be too late.

MasterPlaster, Give Man all of the Technologies of the World and it will NOT change a thing. Many great men have tried, their efforts were fruitless as common man could not understand and never can see any significances and their findings buried deep. It is not about Technology, Findings etc. etc. It is only about YOU, yourself only and what you Value.
This water fuel project is not important  any sane person can make crystals and produce piezoelectric water fuel with many different kinds of elements. It's primitive technology, explosion, noise, deterioration etc., sure you can run your car on water and travel or run a genset to make electricity, it is a good start but what is it worth to you?.
Chet, you said Knowing takes the Fun out of Life but Knowing that you know nothing is what Life is all about. Man will not lift a rifle if only he knows his virtues. Knowing is not important, Clear Perception is. 
What you VALUE is what counts, nothing else. We would happily be trading sticks as legal tende if that is what's valued. Paranoid is a natural defense.

“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.” - Nikola Tesla.

"Civilization is a limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. Every civilization carries the seeds of its own destruction, and the same cycle shows in them all. " - Mark Twain,


"Education is the transmission of civilization." - Ariel and Will Durant

"The more rapidly a civilization progresses, the sooner it dies for another to rise in its place." - Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life


"Civilization begins with order, grows with liberty, and dies with chaos." - Will Durant

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." - John Steinbeck



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 09, 2011, 12:18:39 AM
great
job guys, we're almost there. RAD, what caused your poor result?

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure Its was because I did not keep my temperature a constant 60 degrees C.  I believe It went a little above that.  The jar fogged up and the ammonium reacted with the plastic lens on the $2 thermometer I got from walmart. The lens frosted up and I could not read it anymore.  I had it  in a water bath, the water never boiled, so it did not  reach 100.

Rick
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 09, 2011, 02:29:04 AM
Making a batch right now. 8)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 09, 2011, 02:43:12 AM
great job RAD,
ZnO has many phases, too hot above 80 C and you will have forced hydrolysis where NnO structure is different.

How did you test?.

I have used clear tupperware shoebox $2 with a custom vacuum molded plastic lid, In the lid  I build in vent port and pump mount, any  polycarbonate from hardware store works. Plastic molding is cheap good prototyping material, oven plastic and mold over vacuum chamber, only shop vacum is needed. Don't ask me, it's common knowledge.

I also used the above gadget to inject atomize water into regular ICE with E3 plug, BIG gas saving!.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 09, 2011, 03:02:36 AM
great job RAD,
ZnO has many phases, too hot above 80 C and you will have forced hydrolysis where NnO structure is different.

How did you test?.

I have used clear tupperware shoebox $2 with a custom vacuum molded plastic lid, In the lid  I build in vent port and pump mount, any  polycarbonate from hardware store works. Plastic molding is cheap good prototyping material, oven plastic and mold over vacuum chamber, only shop vacum is needed. Don't ask me, it's common knowledge.

I also used the above gadget to inject atomize water into regular ICE with E3 plug, BIG gas saving!.

I used a Lock & Lock tall square food storage container.  I just put the crystals or ZnO which ever it was in a large coffee filter and placed it in the container with the fogger.  I then placed the E3 plasma spark plug in the fog and fired it.

Thanks,
Rick
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 09, 2011, 03:21:17 AM
Power to be, Are you injecting atomized water solution (from ultrasonic transducer) into an air intake on the ICE or directly into a fuel line? 



There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability.  Almine
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 09, 2011, 03:35:21 AM
Slovenia shared this ,
A link to a tutorial on "How To make the Crystals" from Romo

http://www.scribd.com/doc/50271661/Romo-Summation-of-Powerme-Crysals

also Slovenia said 15 or so members at energetic are replcating this here

p://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-16.html

He extends an open invite to all replicaters!

Slovenia Says he can;t log into his OU account here
under user name "Fiditti" and his requests for help have fallen on deaf ears.
I will PM "Supreme Being" to see if he can fix this!

Thanks again Fiditti [Slovenia] for all you do!

Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 09, 2011, 04:37:29 AM
I would like to point out, that It is all powerme's information -- I still suggest reading his procedure.

I wrote it, so that it might help others as a cross-reference.  In and of itself, it is not a complete compendium.

Powerme, I hope to have a youtube link for you by next weekend with test results.
Thank you for being patient,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 09, 2011, 10:17:26 AM
Power to be, Are you injecting atomized water solution (from ultrasonic transducer) into an air intake on the ICE or directly into a fuel line? 



There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability.  Almine
hey Almine,
no master here, I am just like you, no difference.

fog is injected into air intake, works well, but may need tuning according to each vehicle's need.

here's a little injector that I put together, make it bigger, better etc.

Romo: good, I'll look forward to it.

Chet, fishman: please, no hard feelings, we all the same, pls accept my apologies as well.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 09, 2011, 02:30:44 PM
hey Almine,
no master here, I am just like you, no difference.

fog is injected into air intake, works well, but may need tuning according to each vehicle's need.

here's a little injector that I put together, make it bigger, better etc.

Romo: good, I'll look forward to it.

Chet, fishman: please, no hard feelings, we all the same, pls accept my apologies as well.

Nice little injector.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: truesearch on March 09, 2011, 04:42:38 PM
Anyone taken the time to build one of these "fog injectors" and run it with an ICE? What kind of fuel-mileage (before and after) did you experience? What size of engine?

I'd like to put one together but just wonder what others have experienced.

Sincerely,
truesearch
Title: Mix of Zinc Oxide and crystals
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 09, 2011, 05:05:46 PM
Power,

geotrouvetout  posted the following on the Energetic Forum.  What are your thoughts?  Would there be any benefit to just using the top supersaturated solution instead of the whole mix?  :-\  I will try it on next batch.

"The chemical solution has to be supersaturated, the first step is to pour and stir Zinc Oxide into the amonium hydroxide at 60°C, next not necessary to put in a freezer, just put some ice in a bowl of water to get as cold as possible near 0°C and let your mixed solution set until the Zinc Oxide that did not melt with the amonium hydroxide fall down to the bottom of the jar.
Next pour only the saturated liquid in an other jar and continue the next steps as before, crystals should grow instead of a mix of Zinc Oxide and crystals."
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 09, 2011, 09:32:09 PM
petar113507 
Member   Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 57 
 
I have a few ideas here.

If the water molecules are held together by an electric/magnetic bond on a molecular level, would changing the water, alter how it burns at all? In this, I mean by magnetizing the water, will it make it dis-associate easier with the pizeoelectricity? I have noticed that the water become more viscous when it is 'alive' -- it could go either way.

Partially related -- Jetijs posted a great ionizer circut. (Here: Ozone generator...) I was thinking of replacing the 12V fan with the ionizer. It also 'pumps' air, but it makes the air negatively charged in polarity. I was thinking this might have some effect to the way it would burn -- just like it does in a car.

If you use one of those air ionizers on the intake manifold on a gasoline engine, you can get away with letting the fuel burn leaner, and using less fuel. I do not know why this works this way, but I have a hunch that I might be able to use the ionizer similarly, to make the car run off of even LESS water.

These are just tests I'm going to do when I get this thing up and running -- it sure tickles my imagination to see the different ways in which I can test, and tweak this.

I'd also like to ask -- where should I pose general questions about powerme's clues? I had some "dreamthinking" last night I'd like to discuss. Should I start a new thread about this, to keep this one on the "nuts and bolts" procedure? I ask this, as I do not want anyone to think that this project is less legitimate, or workable due to any 'partially related' tangents. 

Trying to bounce around some ideas,
==Romo
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
great intelligence Romo,
use spark gap with magnet quenching to produce  electric wind, this moves gaseous at the same time solidifying bonding force thus liberating HHO by ionization.
Same principle used by Tesla in his Electric flying machine. Electric wind has many peculiar properties too!.

Truesearch,
You can expect 30%  gain minimum, but you can go much higher!.

RAD,
There is no wrong or right here, please look beyond these forums for knowledge. Best if you conduct think dream, you have  much more knowledge than what you now perceive.


Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: truesearch on March 09, 2011, 10:17:06 PM
@ThePowerToBe:

Thanks for your reply! I'd like to see what sort of measurable results I can get.

sincerely,
truesearch
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 09, 2011, 10:40:21 PM
@ThePowerToBe:

Thanks for your reply! I'd like to see what sort of measurable results I can get.

sincerely,
truesearch
great, please post your process if possible for others to see. I did not add heater etc, but one can build according to their specific need.

Slovenia,
thank you for your efforts, but please let everyone be Free, We are here on earth as individuals for a reason. Good job, please post your process if you are building too.

Electric Wind, electric whirls etc are not well known, old books will hep you understand the effect, there are some patents too.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 09, 2011, 10:54:58 PM
A note to Folks here,This thread is only Half of the info
The rest is at Energetic,
Arron Mahacmedkowalski [probably misspelled his name]
Has a disagreement with "The powers To be" [AKA powerme]
Hopefully they can work this out ? in the mean time
Its Thread Ping Pong.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-17.html

Enjoy
Chet
PS
Post the link every now and then fellahs!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 09, 2011, 11:04:13 PM
A note to Folks here,This thread is only Half of the info
The rest is at Energetic,
Arron Mahacmedkowalski [probably misspelled his name]
Has a disagreement with "The powers To be" [AKA powerme]
Hopefully they can work this out ? in the mean time
Its Thread Ping Pong.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-17.html

Enjoy
Chet
PS
Post the link every now and then fellahs!
Thanks Chet.
 EF had banished me  ;D
"Thou shall not commit fraud" thanks @ Aaron

I am not right nor wrong, it is only what one wishes to see.

@ Arron Mahacmedkowalski, can you please post your finding?.
thank you very much.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 09, 2011, 11:56:59 PM
Romo,
can you expand on your new ideas please, quite fascinating.

I only use positive charge for ionization, the beneficial result is well known, lots of old books that explains it, Influencing as it was called. The earth is already charged negative.

Thank you all for your interest and efforts.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 10, 2011, 04:04:08 AM
Here are before and after pics of my second batch of crystals.  The first picture is after ice bath before cooking @ 60°C for two hours.  The second picture is after cooking @ 60°C for two hours.  Another definite increase.   ;D
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 10, 2011, 05:23:00 AM
Great job RAD, not to discourage you but everything that you msay ever need to know has already been done and published and readily available. ZnO crystals have been researched for many different applications, which is great as it will save us lots of time.

For testing, it is best to use Air tight chamber and route gas to a small ICE, may be a small genset to power ultrasonic as well. It's a plus to develop speed reading, you can read all of the materials before hand so to have a vast library of your own refrences, it is best to work on your own so that you can observe what is happening without having others tell you of what they think, you can always look for the mainstream coined terms that best describes your observence.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you Slovenia, the back up files will come handy someday.
Nature has remedies to aid with your dreams and manifestation of reality. Shaman uses them but I dont.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romo brought up a totally different route to making HHO from ultrasonic water fog, the process is called Influencing. It is a very effecient process where very little current is needed. This process is still utilized in powder coating today but it's wider application has been halted due to other complicated political issues.

Anyhow, only the positive of high frequency high potential voltage is fed thorough spark gap, the negative is grounded. This spark is used to ionize large volume of air with very little energy input, and since our water is already semi gas, we can apply the same method here to produce HHO at very high effeciency.  The ionizer is very simple to build and it is robust and realively free maintenance, it consists of a simple TT coil and rectify vacuum tube, no semiconducter is needed.

Another method to produce HHO, thanks Romo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 10, 2011, 08:51:05 AM
hey Almine,
no master here, I am just like you, no difference.

fog is injected into air intake, works well, but may need tuning according to each vehicle's need.

here's a little injector that I put together, make it bigger, better etc.

Romo: good, I'll look forward to it.

Chet, fishman: please, no hard feelings, we all the same, pls accept my apologies as well.

Oh I'm not Almine.  She is a great teacher and sometimes you sound a bit like her (that is a good thing :)  ) so I just thought I'd toss one of her quotes out here. 
  Thanks much for the diagram and info on the injector setup.  That will be a big help knowing that and all the more motivation to get the crystals made. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 10, 2011, 03:22:25 PM
It has been mentioned that attaching the crystals to a material before putting it in with the fogger is a better option than just free floating crystals. This make since to me. My question is determining what kind of adhesive may be non damaging to the crystals. (solvents, etc)
Would Weld on #3, or Locktite, rubber cement or epoxy damage the crystals?

Any input,Thanks
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 10, 2011, 04:32:32 PM
OK Fellahs ,
This is from bolt,
Over here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10156.msg277260#new

Quote:

When HHO is ignited under great pressure like 150-200 PSI with ICE the power is greatly magnified. Like when you trap HHO in a container then ignite it the explosion almost takes your roof off! Anyone that tries to store any amount of HHO in containers at pressures over 7 PSI has just made a lethal weapon particularly where its raised to pressure like 100 PSI its highly unstable and will try at any time to convert all that energy back to water.

HHO recombination is an electron migration process where water is used as a Zero Point Energy proxy. So the water is not actually the fuel even though it will consume water. For all practical purpose who cares it uses water?  As HHO burns thru metals and raises to thousands of degrees the process has been measured as OU as electrons are accelerated at huge speeds form kinetic energy bombards the adjacent molecules in the material being heated and the temperature is raised several magnitudes hotter than the HHO flame itself.  The process is improved higher by high voltage spark at flame point as within Atomic Welding. High voltage spark adds abundance of free electrons.  See early 1900's books already recognised this process as OU.

For HHO heaters use rock ore materials with high crystal content not metal. As crystal excited by extreme heat the crystals are energised release more and more high speed electrons as piezoelectric effect into adjacent material heating >3000 degrees. The process goes OU. Special cut rock is then built up around the heat chamber to make a HHO core reactor. Then conventional fire bricks cover the stack to make a 300 degree IR radiant heater.  Several patents on this already.

Typically the HHO yields a COP 3 within ICE when all the other parameters have been perfected for engine timing etc.

So if you put 1000 watts into your cell you have 3000 watts of energy within the engine. Take off 1000 you need to give back to keep the cell going plus engine losses, friction and alternator conversion loss etc so total you need to give back 2000 watts of this energy. Now you have 1000 watts OU available to run a load. You can see by making engine super efficient you have 1000 watts here which can be recovered rather then giving it back as losses so as the process is refined you get over 1000 watts OU.

Now you can see without any PWM driving and special tuning already the process has a COP 3. By using PWM high frequency drives, ultrasonic water fog injection, resonance tuned alternator, the COP can easily exceed 5 even higher.

So if you perfected everything and used PWM etc reaching a COP of 10 within a car engine is not impossible in fact its very achievable as others have done this already.  You need a 5kW cell to get 50kW out the engine running only HHO and nothing else. Perfect for a small car.

-----------------------

Fellahs
bolt is an HHO Guru
BE NICE !!
Thanks
Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 10, 2011, 05:24:32 PM
Anyhow, only the positive of high frequency high potential voltage is fed thorough spark gap, the negative is grounded. This spark is used to ionize large volume of air with very little energy input, and since our water is already semi gas, we can apply the same method here to produce HHO at very high effeciency.  The ionizer is very simple to build and it is robust and realively free maintenance, it consists of a simple TT coil and rectify vacuum tube, no semiconducter is needed.

Another method to produce HHO, thanks Romo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the method I use with capacitor70's circuit. It combined HV positive spark with LV positive DC which does something to rapidly separate or expand the water. I still do not understand the effect all that well...good stuff here.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 10, 2011, 06:27:49 PM
fishman,
i have not tried gluing but heck, it's your creation, try and let us know. ZnO is pretty tough,don't worry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chet,
thanks for the new info. HHO alone is will raise ICE temperature unsafely, however the atomize fog acts as a coolant. there are already numerous sites that sells and explain effects of water fog injection kits, some have been doing this for decades successfully, but the ultrasonic HHO is an all new cat in the playground.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Supergod,
I am not sure of the application that you had mentioned. The circuit I am talking about is 100 years old. TT, rectify tube, condensors, Ionizing chamber. Simple stuff. I do not care for new age discrete electronics.
Submolecule water fog is easily nucleated and  ionized to release HHO by white spark from positive charge, NOT the purple spark from negative. An auxiliary tubular condenser chamber will be suitable for this purpose as it can produce electric wind to move fog in and out of chamber at the same time dissociate fog with fine electrostatic force at controlled rate, preferbly 20-40% HHO only.
If you still think that water is binded only by H2 + O then you have not learned a thing. Aether has properties, it can be made a solid out of water and the H2 and O that is why H2 and O is released FREELY
This is a combination of already known work in Sonochemistry and Cavitation Nucleation. Analog circuitry is much easie to build and very robust, not to mention easily replicable and cheap.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone,
When testing your crystals, throw away the transformer that came with the ultrasonic fogger, wind your own transformer, for the single piezo, I run it at 36v, current not important. You can buy just transducer only and mount them yourself, they are $2 each, you need to cast your own housing, metalgury skills. Or better, ask to buy the ultrasonic fogger without power supply, that will shave off some $$.
For automotive application, It does not make sense to run and inverter
Your transducer needs to run at above 43 khz or you will not have combustible gas. My cells runs at 45 khz.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not a guru, no teacher, no expert,  I never ever wish to be one.
I am next to Nothing as I'm just another man like you.  Guys, follow your guru as you have not and may never learn self intellectual.
Best of luck.
Have a nice day
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 10, 2011, 10:14:07 PM
My fogger arrived!  Whoo!  So, I can do my tests a week early!  :)
Unfourtunately, this is the only post I could really squeeze in before I'm headed off to the library to get work done.  So, I havent been able to do tests with the crystals +Pizeo yet.  Soon! :o

Rad HHO, It strikes me that I do not know the vibration rate of my DK-24 Pond fogger.  Do you know that of yours?  This may be what made your crystals "not work" -- they might not have been vibrating fast enough. (For the pizeoelectric crystals, this means there wouldn't have been a strong enough electrical difference at short range -- so no HHO)

I have not conducted any tests yet -- so this is an untested thought.  I'll get back to you on this over the weekend.  :)
Also,
I have a couple of old microwave transformers laying around,  (and my friends think it's nuts, but I dont care :D) and was thinking about substituting the pond fogger transformer for the bigger one.  Problem is, I don't know what the transformer is rated for.

I was even thinking -- the transformer on the fogger is rated at 24V -- Could I just add another "step up" transformer between the fogger, and the stock-fogger-transformer to step it up a little bit more?

Why are we stepping up to 36V?  Is there an upper limit to the voltage that I should not cross  Does increasing the voltage increase the speed of vibration of the pizeoelectric?
If it is not the voltage -- how can we get the fogger to vibrate faster?

I'm drawing a blank here you guys -- and I've gotta study and write a paper tonight.  I'll pick up on these questions later on the weekend if no one knows the answers.  If anyone does though, I would be much obliged for any insight! :)

I will post everything I have done/tested over the weekend. Pictures of setup, Videos of making crystals -- everything I have done.  I hope it helps others get up-to-speed.

Spring break is here for me after my last midterms(tomorrow!) -- and will be able to go full time on this project soon.   ;D

The ball is gettin' a-rollin,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 10, 2011, 11:56:15 PM
My fogger arrived!  Whoo!  So, I can do my tests a week early!  :)
Unfourtunately, this is the only post I could really squeeze in before I'm headed off to the library to get work done.  So, I havent been able to do tests with the crystals +Pizeo yet.  Soon! :o

Rad HHO, It strikes me that I do not know the vibration rate of my DK-24 Pond fogger.  Do you know that of yours?  This may be what made your crystals "not work" -- they might not have been vibrating fast enough. (For the pizeoelectric crystals, this means there wouldn't have been a strong enough electrical difference at short range -- so no HHO)

I have not conducted any tests yet -- so this is an untested thought.  I'll get back to you on this over the weekend.  :)
Also,
I have a couple of old microwave transformers laying around,  (and my friends think it's nuts, but I dont care :D) and was thinking about substituting the pond fogger transformer for the bigger one.  Problem is, I don't know what the transformer is rated for.

I was even thinking -- the transformer on the fogger is rated at 24V -- Could I just add another "step up" transformer between the fogger, and the stock-fogger-transformer to step it up a little bit more?

Why are we stepping up to 36V?  Is there an upper limit to the voltage that I should not cross  Does increasing the voltage increase the speed of vibration of the pizeoelectric?
If it is not the voltage -- how can we get the fogger to vibrate faster?

I'm drawing a blank here you guys -- and I've gotta study and write a paper tonight.  I'll pick up on these questions later on the weekend if no one knows the answers.  If anyone does though, I would be much obliged for any insight! :)

I will post everything I have done/tested over the weekend. Pictures of setup, Videos of making crystals -- everything I have done.  I hope it helps others get up-to-speed.

Spring break is here for me after my last midterms(tomorrow!) -- and will be able to go full time on this project soon.   ;D

The ball is gettin' a-rollin,
==Romo

Dude! You are doing good work but PLEASE be careful with the MOT it can seriously kill you before you even know what hit you. You don't need that much Voltage / Amps / Difference of potential

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 11, 2011, 06:28:33 AM
My fogger arrived!  Whoo!  So, I can do my tests a week early!  :)
Unfourtunately, this is the only post I could really squeeze in before I'm headed off to the library to get work done.  So, I havent been able to do tests with the crystals +Pizeo yet.  Soon! :o

Rad HHO, It strikes me that I do not know the vibration rate of my DK-24 Pond fogger.  Do you know that of yours?  This may be what made your crystals "not work" -- they might not have been vibrating fast enough. (For the pizeoelectric crystals, this means there wouldn't have been a strong enough electrical difference at short range -- so no HHO)

I have not conducted any tests yet -- so this is an untested thought.  I'll get back to you on this over the weekend.  :)
Also,
I have a couple of old microwave transformers laying around,  (and my friends think it's nuts, but I dont care :D) and was thinking about substituting the pond fogger transformer for the bigger one.  Problem is, I don't know what the transformer is rated for.

I was even thinking -- the transformer on the fogger is rated at 24V -- Could I just add another "step up" transformer between the fogger, and the stock-fogger-transformer to step it up a little bit more?

Why are we stepping up to 36V?  Is there an upper limit to the voltage that I should not cross  Does increasing the voltage increase the speed of vibration of the pizeoelectric?
If it is not the voltage -- how can we get the fogger to vibrate faster?

I'm drawing a blank here you guys -- and I've gotta study and write a paper tonight.  I'll pick up on these questions later on the weekend if no one knows the answers.  If anyone does though, I would be much obliged for any insight! :)

I will post everything I have done/tested over the weekend. Pictures of setup, Videos of making crystals -- everything I have done.  I hope it helps others get up-to-speed.

Spring break is here for me after my last midterms(tomorrow!) -- and will be able to go full time on this project soon.   ;D

The ball is gettin' a-rollin,
==Romo

NO!  Do NOT use a MOT between your power supply and the fogger or you will destroy your fogger.  You would be multiplying the voltage by about 15 to 20 times and MOT's can handle all the current you throw at them so you would potentially be putting about 480 volts at serveral amps into your little ultrasonic circuit = Instant Destruction!  Like Altrez said MOT's are dangerous for many reasons and even if it wasn't dangerous for you it would be instant death for your equipment if set up like that.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 11, 2011, 07:59:52 AM
fishman,
i have not tried gluing but heck, it's your creation, try and let us know. ZnO is pretty tough,don't worry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chet,
thanks for the new info. HHO alone is will raise ICE temperature unsafely, however the atomize fog acts as a coolant. there are already numerous sites that sells and explain effects of water fog injection kits, some have been doing this for decades successfully, but the ultrasonic HHO is an all new cat in the playground.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Supergod,
I am not sure of the application that you had mentioned. The circuit I am talking about is 100 years old. TT, rectify tube, condensors, Ionizing chamber. Simple stuff. I do not care for new age discrete electronics.
Submolecule water fog is easily nucleated and  ionized to release HHO by white spark from positive charge, NOT the purple spark from negative. An auxiliary tubular condenser chamber will be suitable for this purpose as it can produce electric wind to move fog in and out of chamber at the same time dissociate fog with fine electrostatic force at controlled rate, preferbly 20-40% HHO only.
If you still think that water is binded only by H2 + O then you have not learned a thing. Aether has properties, it can be made a solid out of water and the H2 and O that is why H2 and O is released FREELY
This is a combination of already known work in Sonochemistry and Cavitation Nucleation. Analog circuitry is much easie to build and very robust, not to mention easily replicable and cheap.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone,
When testing your crystals, throw away the transformer that came with the ultrasonic fogger, wind your own transformer, for the single piezo, I run it at 36v, current not important. You can buy just transducer only and mount them yourself, they are $2 each, you need to cast your own housing, metalgury skills. Or better, ask to buy the ultrasonic fogger without power supply, that will shave off some $$.
For automotive application, It does not make sense to run and inverter
Your transducer needs to run at above 43 khz or you will not have combustible gas. My cells runs at 45 khz.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not a guru, no teacher, no expert,  I never ever wish to be one.
I am next to Nothing as I'm just another man like you.  Guys, follow your guru as you have not and may never learn self intellectual.
Best of luck.
Have a nice day

Thanks again for all your help.  A couple questions.  I've seen TT coil and TT come up a couple times but I don't know what that is unless you are referring to a car HV ignition coil? 
   
Question also about the Ultrasonic frequency.  None that I've seen state their operating frequency.  Do most of them operate above 43 Khz?  Or will we need to modify them some way to get the higher frequency.  While I have never taken one apart I assume there is a small oscillator circuit in them driving the ceramic transducer.  I did build an ultrasonic transmitter from scratch about 40 years ago to demonstrate Doppler effects but it's transducer is not made for fogging or use in water.  I think it is in the 25-30 Khz range.  I do have a frequency reader although I'm not sure how to hook it up to a fogger as they look sealed as I expect they would need to be in order to be water tight.  I did unscrew the top on one to remove a broken disk but below that it appears all sealed with no access to the electronics or output connections.   Anyone have any ideas to know what frequency these run at or how we can get them above 43 Khz? 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 11, 2011, 11:52:35 AM
e2matrix,
The TT is the only Tesla Transformer that I utilize, pancake coil type and not the  tower everyone uses to create spark show. Tesla confined sparks to prevent loss.

The china ultrasonic uses transistor oscillator to tune oscillation frequency, just refresh your memory of  Pierce oscillator circuit,   tune your resonator to 43 khz. Just like crystal oscillators, there are many ways to do this, crystal angles, temp, voltage etc. You can use a network analyzer to conduct reading, I don fancy these things.

There's a wealth of information out there on regular guys like us hacking just about anything that you will ever need to fine tune in this project. Other forums have hacked these cheap piezo and modify them according to their likings.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romo, please use your intelligence, it is not hard  to steup up 12 to 36v?, simple transformer, MOT is overkill. All of the technical specs for your fogger is available online.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on people, please be REAL.
Anyone serious about this project, it is best to leave these forums and seek required knowledge else where. Google Books, Patents, published papers, electronic forums, chemistry forum etc. They are readily available.
Forget about your Free Energy knowledge, Meyers, Boyce etc.  You guys just need a CLEAR mind to see it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While the simplicity of Truth is not exciting, simple things do work best, no exotic myths and tales. Anyone that wants to save on their gas can use my little fog injector, you can also atomize gasoline into vapor, there's a great myth about the 200 mpg car, you can do it now if you wish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwWj-gcYPTg&feature=related

Anyhow, these things are real simple and easy to do. I hope you folks will find uses for them and see that there is no Energy Crisis, the only crisis is your Values and the false reality that you continue to perceive.

Good luck to those people in Wisconsin that are standing up for what is right, and great job for those in Maine that fought for food sovereignty. You are what you eat people, you need good natural minerals to think and see clearly.

What is in your food?.



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 11, 2011, 03:41:33 PM

Question also about the Ultrasonic frequency.  None that I've seen state their operating frequency.

I have seen one fogger with frequency listing, it was (CORRECTION 30khz) for a single US transducer the volt listed at 24 volts. Multi-disk units listed 36 and 48 volts. Unfortunately i cant find that listing anymore to verify that. (I was able to verify 30hz @24 volts)

 I assume you can simply raise the voltage and the frequency goes up also. The Power also mentioned that he has used a PWM. I'm going to figure this out myself this weekend with the help from a equal, Not A Teacher, friend i have.   ;)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 11, 2011, 10:53:08 PM
I have seen one fogger with frequency listing, it was (CORRECTION 30khz) for a single US transducer the volt listed at 24 volts. Multi-disk units listed 36 and 48 volts. Unfortunately i cant find that listing anymore to verify that. (I was able to verify 30hz @24 volts)

 I assume you can simply raise the voltage and the frequency goes up also. The Power also mentioned that he has used a PWM. I'm going to figure this out myself this weekend with the help from a equal, Not A Teacher, friend i have.   ;)
great efforts fishman, the technical data is widely available. A little hacking is all that's needed to tune the resonator or transducer or piezo or what ever one wishes to call it, have fun but be very careful!.

anyone working on increasing their MPG, this is a very good demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A68kTeEpyT0

great job Peter is you are still out there. :)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 11, 2011, 10:53:28 PM
I have seen one fogger with frequency listing, it was (CORRECTION 30khz) for a single US transducer the volt listed at 24 volts. Multi-disk units listed 36 and 48 volts. Unfortunately i cant find that listing anymore to verify that. (I was able to verify 30hz @24 volts)

 I assume you can simply raise the voltage and the frequency goes up also. The Power also mentioned that he has used a PWM. I'm going to figure this out myself this weekend with the help from a equal, Not A Teacher, friend i have.   ;)
great efforts fishman, the technical data is widely available. A little hacking is all that's needed to tune the resonator or transducer or piezo or what ever one wishes to call it, have fun but be very careful!.

anyone working on increasing their MPG, this is a very good demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A68kTeEpyT0

great job Peter is you are still out there. :)
Title: A tad long winded rant.
Post by: petar113507 on March 11, 2011, 11:56:43 PM
Thank you for the quick replies, and the concern for saftey.  I did not mean to come off as stupid, hasty, or unrealistic.  I was kind of rushed for cramming for classes, and threw out a half solidified idea out there.

One of the things I meant to include -- (Yes, but no-one had known aside from me...  :( ) was that I was trying to hack open (break open) the MOT, to try to scrap some of the coils to use in a smaller transformer.

It turns out, that even that wasn't too great of an idea, as the entire housing was firmly welded shut.  If I had an HHO torch (which I hope to have soon) it might stand a fighting chance -- but as of yet -- that was mostly just a bad idea.

Like I said, thank you for the concern.  We all learn things as we work -- I just learned I need to more thoroughly mull through my ideas before sharing them. :O

With that apology @ all, I will mention that I am not very knowledgeable (yet) about pizeo's or modifying them to be at a higher frequency.  This one goes on the backburner for a few days for me.

Onwards,  Powerme is leaving a lot of tangents around. I know they are all inter-related, and very important (from my perspective) towards the goal of thinking in "higher octaves" (as walter russel would put it).
I think this is the goal here -- because this would reflect what powerme is trying to teach us -- Self reliance, and the abillity to think through the problems at hand.  If we can do that (No offense powerme), but we wouldn't need him -- nor to constantly ask him for answers.

As frustrating as that may be for the replicators -- as we want to first completely make a system work exactly as the inventor had it work -- thinking in this manner would allow us to further improve on a design, while we would see how it works.

While we may be thinking "OOh, Treasure!" for the system that powerme has disclosed to us -- I beleive that he wants us to look for something different.  The KEY to the treasure is what he is trying to show us -- At least, this is what I think.

If you have a single key, to a single treasure chest, you are entitled to all the rewards within that chest.  (Understanding the singular system )  If you were to have, however -- the key to ANY treasure chest -- you have the potential to reap all the treasures of the world.   This is to know the wheelwork of nature, so that we may tap it into every facet for adapt to our needs.

In this case indeed, the key to the treasure, IS the real treasure.  That is, understanding why those matierals do that, is the treasure here.

The Problem is (for me) -- because I feel I am running out of time, and need to get as much done as possible -- the sheer quantity of tangents is almost overwhelming.  This is not to say that I am at all, in any way resentful -- I feel very privelaged to have been exposed to all of this type of information.

I only wish I could sometimes have more exact clues, or more time to sift through them.

I CAN do the work over time, and learn about it -- but I feel that we are pressed for exactly that -- time. 

/rant


I will begin with Powerme's little tangents he keeps leaving around.  Thereafter, if no one else has presented anything about pizeo's, I'll follow up with more research about pizeoelectrics and see if I can help in that area.
Fishman, I look foreward to hearing what you find out.  :)

It's the start of spring break for me, so I expect to be pouring a lot of time into this project.  I'm also beginning fasting for a week of spring break -- so I should get more time in to read, because I don't have to prepare food. :)

I will start with what I think I am good at first.  These are my thoughts -- I have read or seen most of this information somewhere (But I cannot recall usually where, so I cannot cite sources).  If anyone has a response, or a further idea to these reflections -- I hope this sparks a discussion, so that we might help each other understand a little more.  :)


=======================
Powerme's Tangents:
=======================

========================
While  you tend to upkeep your shop, earning your wage but Now know that Gold was not intended for legal tender, it's much more valuable within you
========================

On this, I think he is talking about Gold's original purpose -- ORME's.  ORME's were the reason that gold was coveted -- because of what it could be turned into -- not because the darned metal is a "rare, precious metal" in the earth at all.  Not in its yellow-metallic state anyhow.

Think about this for a moment, Gold is not inherently worth anything -- it is just another bit of light/matter (whatever you wish to call it) -- it was attributed to have a worth between humans because many humans desired it.

Many people did not nescessarialy desire the matieral itself, but what the matieral would allow them to do.

I do not exactly know what happened to the gold molecules in order to get into the ORME state -- I have a vauge idea of what they must undergo to get into this state -- but I do not know why they must do that, to get to that state.

I know that in this state, they are "superconducting" -- they are pushed along an ion channel very easily by the "smallest" of potentials.  If you think about this in terms of a music -- a lower, bass note octave pushes a whole lot of air to provide the pressure wave we experience as sound -- Kind of like a brutish, powerful primal thought.  I liken this to "instinct".

A "higher" octave of the bass note, would be a higher pitch -- and would concequently be vibrating much faster.  In order for your brain to be able to pick up all of the information embedded in the carrier wave (the faster vibrating rate) -- (connecting it here to the brain) it would need to be pushed along the ion channel easier.  The mother lode of this is in ORME's -- superconducting.  You would be more "sensitive" if your brain had superconducting elements in it.

Interesting -- because your brain ALREADY has those elements in it -- Traces of ORME's are in the grey matter of your brain.

Think about your brain for a moment.  The finer, more inter-connected the neurons are, the more diverse/inter-connected your thoughts are.  Very intelligent people suposedly have very diverse neural connections.

Does this sound at all like how powerme was saying "See how everything is the same" -- In order to do this, your brain must be pretty darned inter-connected.  This would be, in part -- due to having ingested ORME's.

But I do not think you ingest the orme's raw though. 
There were some papers I read a while back about the way that we currently farm.  I beleive they were some papers done in the 40's in the US about remineralizing the soil, because the natural nutrients which our bodies NEED in order to stay healthy, were being leeched from the soil.  This included ORME's.  That was in the 40's.  I cannot safely assume that the soils have gotten much better since then, as these papers were largely ignored by the general public.

There is a very subtle taste difference in organic food, and processed food as well.  I notice it -- I think the food tastes full of life-giving-substance.  Maybe that's just me.

I think the feeling of "satiated" with food, or being "full" is the sign that your body gives you telling you that you've tanked up on enough nutrients, and you don't need to eat anymore.  Processed food doesn't even make you feel full (think of a box of lucky charms :O ) -- I always viewed this an extention of the lack of nutrients in those heavily processed foods. 

It's almost like your body is telling you "Naah.  Not much nutrients here." and won't give you a "satisfied" or satiated feeling.  Eventually it will give your stomach the feeling of being "filled with mass" -- which is usually what people confuse for the upper limit of their eating capicity.   They think that their stomach being full of mass = full.  That, as far as I can see, is inadvertent gluttony.  Part, from lack of self control, but also in part, due that they aren't treating their body right, with the right nutrients!

Monocultures are constantly leeching nutrients out of the soil.  The soil actually USED to have trace ammounts of collidal gold, and silver in the 'olden days' -- plus some ORME (gold,Rhodium, Iridium) -- and potentially other "Precious metals".

(Ever wonder why they were "precious" metals?  Remember, it's not due to the inherent quantity on this planet.  Silver-ware?  Used to actually be made of silver, so we would ingest silver!)

Before I go on -- ORME's are already present in your brain matter.  Having more of them present in your brain, would allow you to "see" more subtle connections. 

Would this also result in you being more "in tune" with your higher self?  Or being more "enlightened", or more intelligent?

I do not know.  To me, without going much into beleifs, it makes sense that superconducting elements in your brain would change the octave (frequency domain) in which you think.

==============
and the elders may prefer mercury, but the wisest of  all will not dare indulge as Nature is much more pleasant.
==============

Ingesting ORME's directly seems to be a mistake that most people make.  (At least, I think so -- this is a personal hunch.)

Ingesting these elements through your food -- would explain why "nature is kinder".  If you were to directly ingest such a concentrated dosage of the ORME's, I think there might be some kind of negative side effects.  I'm not sure -- but I don't want to really take the risk at my body's expense.  Nature would be kinder.

It woule be the natural way to have your body asborb the minerals.  This is also why Powerme has been so amandant about eating organic foods that you grow yourself.  You could "dope" the soil with some of those ORME's, or precious metals from seawater.

Incidently, I have considered a similar process for growing my own spirulina, or kelp in my living room -- so that I could ensure also doping the foods with those elements to take care of myself.

Your thinking capicity is going to be limited by your body if you don't take care of it.  this is where in eastern philosophies/practices, they regarded your body as a "temple".  In order for you to have the capicity to think at this "upper level" (to understand the wheelworks, and interconnectedness of nature), you cannot be cramming your face full of burgers on a daily basis.

Hence also, "you are what you eat".

===========
but the wiser would rather earn copper,
====================

I think this is very interesting.  I always thought wise people who were working in the now -- were saving up for the future.  So -- put more work in now -- reap rewards later, kind of thing.  Well -- why would we be saving copper for later, in the future?

As John Bedini showed in EFTV 18 (Transmutation) -- Copper IS gold, only it is just a "octave" under it.  It only needs to undergo a phase transition, or shift in order to become gold.  This seems to imply that we may undergo a phase transiton; that our bodies are capable of catalyzing this phase transition (Like us being able to make gold, into an ORME through meditation maybe?)

=======================
and the elders may prefer mercury, but the wisest of  all will not dare indulge as Nature is much more pleasant.
=======================

I don't understand the mercury though.


Is this relevant to anyone?  Does this help at all? I am writing some more things from his clues. This is really just a very small isolated tangent. 
I would like to discuss these things otherwise though -- get some fresh perspectives to see a little more clearly.
Lemme know if these thoughts are too scattered


Best wishes to all,
(it was long, and more coming will be longer too...)

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 12, 2011, 02:07:10 AM
I would also like to add, I'm no expert here.
I just think that all of powerme's ideas should be given careful consideration, as they do seem to relate to understanding more about the universe around us, and in us.

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 12, 2011, 04:38:24 AM
From what I understand about ultrasonic transducers (the fogger) they are basically a sealed oscillator circuit that uses a ceramic disk as a type of high frequency speaker.  So if I am correct changing the voltage input will not alter the frequency and may only damage your oscillator if it is too high.  I think it is more likely there will be a resistor somewhere in the oscillator circuit that will raise or lower the frequency.  I think as power to be has mentioned there are a lot of hardware hacking type forums that will probably have info on this.  I hesitated to open the one I have as there did not seem to be any easy access to the circuit board but there is always a way but it will just take a little more effort.  It would be also a consideration if we could find a manufacturer to get some specs on them and see if any might be higher if if we had enough people here interested maybe the could make a small run of enough with a higher frequency.  I also suspect it would not be hard to make your own 555 chip based oscillator to run one of these.  It's quite easy to build 555 circuits as they typically only require the one inexpensive chip and a small handful of components like a couple resistors and maybe a cap or two.  I just not sure if the direct output from a 555 would be strong enough for the ceramic disk or peizo.   

   I could be wrong about this but that's my take on it as I did build an ultrasonic transmitter and a separate receiver many year ago.  They are not much different than a basic audio tone generator circuit except just above human hearing in the ultrasonic range and thus the speakers become tranducers. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 12, 2011, 05:01:29 AM
great thinking Romo, sound like you are ready for a journey into the higher realm. Many moons ago, i was over lavished with the cosmic bliss but keep keep on going and taking nothing for granted.

ewizard, china piezo were designed for water atomizing, fits the bill well, just work on raising oscillation, very doable. you can easily get ready made commercial resonator units, just look around.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 13, 2011, 06:40:48 PM
My fogger arrived!  Whoo!  So, I can do my tests a week early!  :)
Unfourtunately, this is the only post I could really squeeze in before I'm headed off to the library to get work done.  So, I havent been able to do tests with the crystals +Pizeo yet.  Soon! :o

Rad HHO, It strikes me that I do not know the vibration rate of my DK-24 Pond fogger.  Do you know that of yours?  This may be what made your crystals "not work" -- they might not have been vibrating fast enough. (For the pizeoelectric crystals, this means there wouldn't have been a strong enough electrical difference at short range -- so no HHO)

I have not conducted any tests yet -- so this is an untested thought.  I'll get back to you on this over the weekend.  :)


The ball is gettin' a-rollin,
==Romo

I do not know the frequency of my fogger either.  I have been searching for more info every chance I get (which isn't very often, I'm working weekends and 16 hr days).  From what I have gathered so far, the transducers have a set resonant frequency. They can be operated outside the frequency band with some loss in output.  I have also noticed that the misters that I have been able to find info on are all in the 1.6 to 2.5 Mhz range. I will test when I have time......
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 13, 2011, 07:00:42 PM
Romo,
Have you seen the video Power to be posted the link for a while back?  I almost missed it. His transducer is out of a humidifier and it operates at 48 Khz.  It has the driver circuit too.  Easy access for mods.  I may have to go to walmart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwWj-gcYPTg&feature=related

Great video. 

Thanks again Power to be.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 13, 2011, 08:26:46 PM
Thanks RAD-HHO.

Romo,
Have you seen the video Power to be posted the link for a while back?  I almost missed it. His transducer is out of a humidifier and it operates at 48 Khz.  It has the driver circuit too.  Easy access for mods.  I may have to go to walmart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwWj-gcYPTg&feature=related

Great video. 

Thanks again Power to be.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 13, 2011, 11:51:02 PM
Slovenia
NICE!!,
Glad to See you here with the same handle!
For those that don't know Already,Slovenia is "Top Shelf"!!
WELL,
I forgot we're all on the same shelf [Power Me]............
 ;D
Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 14, 2011, 12:40:50 AM
Thanks Ramset for the nice welcome!!


Slovenia
NICE!!,
Glad to See you here with the same handle!
For those that don't know Already,Slovenia is "Top Shelf"!!
WELL,
I forgot we're all on the same shelf [Power Me]............
 ;D
Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 14, 2011, 12:53:49 AM
Hello OU Members,

For those of you interested, we've received a lot of great material from Powerme, (The Power To Be).  So much information that we could sure use more help analyzing all of it and comparing notes.  I am in the process of trying to compile all his notes into a fast and loose reference guide but I'm not done yet, and I'd like to build his water injector system too complete with the crystals.  We need all the help we can get.  We're all very busy with our own lives but I feel that what Powerme has shared with us is something no less than incredible.  I still haven't learned how to connect with my higher self yet, so I need some of you smart fellows to help me in this endeavor.  I do have a website that is open to anyone who wants to join.  The site is an archive site and I've archived all of Powerme's posts there.  Also, others including myself are putting pictures up there to of their projects.  I have links to all Powerme's recommended downloadable books too.  I continue to add things to the site but it takes a lot of time and I'd like to make these devices too.  Anyway, the link to my site is:

Power1 Crystal-Piezoelectric Study GP
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Power1Crystal-PiezoelectricStudyGP/

Anyway, I continue to update all the Powerme posts to this thread and also to the ongoing Powerme thread on Energetic Forum, "http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-18.html".  So, please join us and help us build a great new working prototype of the Powerme device so we can share the information all across the web worldwide.  Thanks!!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: CompuTutor on March 14, 2011, 02:16:18 AM
Slovenia
NICE!!,
Glad to See you here with the same handle!
Chet

Slovenia,
glad also to see those links worked for you,
and you got things sorted with the login issue.
(You know me as WeThePeople @ EF BTW...)
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on March 14, 2011, 02:21:46 AM
Hi CompuTutor,

Yes, thanks for helping me out with the links.  It's great to be here.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia,
glad also to see those links worked for you,
and you got things sorted with the login issue.
(You know me as WeThePeople @ EF BTW...)
Title: I return with pictures!
Post by: petar113507 on March 14, 2011, 04:41:58 AM
Allrighty,

At first my procedures were very strict -- but now they're a lot more lax.  I'm going to post some pictures outlining my equipment, and what I do with them.

First things first:  I don't know if anyone's ever inhaled ANY ammonium hydroxide Nh3(OH) before
This is the only website that I needed some technical information from.  I suggest looking for more to understand what you need to until your curiosity is satisfied.  This has, thus far, worked excellently for me.
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/ammonia_refrigeration/ammonia/index.html

Specifically, this table:
Summary of properties:
Boiling Point  -28°F
Weight per gallon of liquid at -28°F 5.69 pounds
Weight per gallon of liquid at 60°F 5.15 pounds
Specific gravity of the liquid (water=1) 0.619
Specific gravity of the gas (air=1) 0.588
Flammable limits in air 16-25%
Ignition temperature 1204°F
Vapor pressure at 0°F 16 psi
Vapor pressure at 68°F 110 psi
Vapor pressure at 100°F 198 psi
One cubic foot of liquid at 60°F expands to  850 cubic foot of gas

So, the stuff that we're looking for turns into a gas at 28°F or higher.  Most of the time, it will not freeze if you are careful.

I'll mix in some pictures of my equipment too, so it doesn't get too dull for anyone.  :)

First:

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0312012036.jpg)

At first I used this distilling system.  Looks like a regular distilling system -- Kinda like you might use to make rubbing alcolhol, or make beer flat, and non-alcolholic.

It worked allright, but I had some technical difficulties.  It has to do with the "boiling point" as listed above.  At first, I had thoght I just had to heat up the 1-GAL container, and wait for the ammonium condense on the other side.

So my first 24 hours (last week) were spent, waiting for something to condense out, and it wouldn't.  With little critical thinking, I looked up the table I have listed above -- and realized it will only condense into a liquid at a significantly lower temperature.  (Doh)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0312012101.jpg)

So then I put the two bottle contraptions into the mini fridge, and connected them at the tops with my distilling-contraption.

This works as I have found, but good luck if anything freezes in the aluminum pipe.
:o


Warning:  If you inhale 10% ammonium hydroxide, you will feel a burn in your nostrils like you have inhaled essence bleach or wasabi.

The warning is, as follows: It is Very painful.
Breathe in twice, and you get lightheaded enough that you need to sit down, in a well ventilated area -- and are incapicated for about 10-20 minutes.
Leave your eyes open when pouring to a different jar, and it burns your eyeballs quite badly. (Not physical burn, but quite the sting.) 
This is the only time, that I have been grateful that I had lab goggles for chemistry.  I have even resorted to using (swimming) goggles.  Looks goofy, works great.
That is working with the 10% stuff.

I have been working with my concentrated stuff with by breathe held, and swimmers goggles, and clothespin over my nose.  Like I said -- It looks goofy but I don't even want to find out what it is to make a mistake with the concentrated stuff.  This has been your warning.

It turns out, you don't need all the aluminum tubing fancy stuff. Turns out, After a moment of clear thinking -- most of my fancy add-ons were un-nescessary.

The simplified version -- (The day that superman9976 posted the same thing!  Great idea!  ) -- is throwing it in the fridge, and leaving it at a coldest temperature I can set my fridge to.  The water freezes and the ammonium stays liquid.  (laugh smiley)

If you want to Read his simplified procedure:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7422-growing-crystals-piezoelectric-energy-harvesting-2.html#post134004

He also has some great points.  Another source to contrast against the original procedure.

And when it emerges, the water should be frozen, but not the other stuff.

The slush looks like this
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0313011230.jpg)

I take out the water while it is half-frozen (still slushie form), and strain it through a metal strainer -- to filter out some ice.  (Remember, do this outside)  I then put the solution into the second container. Put the second container back in the freezer.  Rinse and repeat.

Strainer:
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0312012358.jpg)

I do not know the exact concentration -- I poured in about 600 ml in the beginning, and it was concentrated @ 10%.  You gotta do a little bit of math, to see that when the concentration is at about 200ML or LESS, then your concentration is "enough".  A little more won't hurt, but it WILL add more pressure to your reflux condenser.

But, Speaking of the reflux condenser:
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0312012122.jpg)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0312012121.jpg)

Okay, so now that you've got the ammonium at the right concentration, what next?

Go through the crystal procedure:

Cook at to 60* C, adding in the Zno.  Slowly doesn't really matter.  I can even pop off the lid of the jar, and dump in 30 G at once, and then mix it up with my "stirrer".  I suggest "popping" the lid outside, as doing it inside will take quite a while to clear out.

My "stirrer"

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0312012131.jpg)

Three magnets are on the left sides.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0312012132.jpg)

The one in my hand, I threw inside the jar too -- the ones on the drill stayed like that.  :)

Throw it into a big pot of water -- Cook it at 60* C.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0313011327.jpg)

The water/oil/whatever you use acts as a thermal buffer.  It stores up a lot of heat -- so your stove going on/off every so often doesn't matter.  Just keep the water around 60, and you can sit back and relax.  :)

Note that I had the reflux thermometer, and the outside solution thermometer.

The thermometer on the reflux jar tells me the internal temp. of the solution -- and the outside candy thermometer (atop the pot of water) tells me how hot the water "buffer" is.  Comparing between the two has given me "good enough" temp. control.

Eventually though -- if you don't wanna be that fancy, I found that keeping the outside solution between 65-70C, and an ice cube on top of the 1/2 gal kept it the "right" temperature.

Throw in the Zinc oxide when it gets hot enough. (60*)

Stir it every 5 mins or so.  I spent this time reading, and getting up to pick up my jar, and use the "stirrer".

Let it get down to 0* (Freezer/fridge)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0313011517.jpg)

Take the mix out when it has sat at 0* for about an hour.

Let it sit in warmer water, so as to avoid breaking your glass.  Sit for 5 mins to avoid thermal shock.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0313011358.jpg)

Cook it again @ 60* C, stirring it to break up the crystals from getting too large.  (every 5-10 mins for 2 hours.)

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0313011653.jpg)

Even if you mess up a little bit, you still grow crystals.

Here, I have about 2-3 times the original.

Before:
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0313011351.jpg)

After:
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/HHO-ICE/0313011919.jpg)


Tests with them and with the pizeoelectric are on the prioroity list for the next few days.

I grew the last batch to be slightly larger than the other crystals,so that they might perhaps use a slower wave frequencey.

Next few days should tell me that.  :)
I've got a good feeling about getting this done,

==Romo


================================
I don't know about anyone else, but JB's most recent quote:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7351-bedini-earth-light-15.html#post134012

Quote from: JB
Question.........
Inquorate,
This is a subject that I really do not want to get into, but I will answer you this one time. The cell did bounce around a little very small amount with the charting. But the Scalar Tuner was all over the place. I'm sorry to say this but were not finished with any of this. It's going to get far worse and "They" know it, that is why they are storing food, but not for us just them. It is time to put all differences aside and work together. I really hate to know anything about any of this, but I guess it's my path in life. I just see things far different then most people and always have. Yes I'm off the wall sometimes but I'm really afraid at what I see going on with the whole world. Take for example the Sun and what is going on with it, that Star can cook you right one side of the planet, reason for under ground bases built everywhere, but not for you. That is all I'm going to say about it.
John B

This has been the reason I've been driving in overhaul about this energy stuff for the past few years.  Does anyone else know why I've felt pressed for time?
=======================
Title: Pizeo
Post by: petar113507 on March 14, 2011, 05:07:56 AM
So I got fed up with looking at the blank pages, I couldn't find the right information about the transformer, or pizeo circut.

So I cracked it open. ::)

It looks like the transformer is just the transformer -- nothing to break up or modify really in there.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/0313012049.jpg)

it would be then, potentially something inside the circut. I would need to, therefore, break open the pizeoelectric transducer itself, and either modify, or replace something in there.

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/0313012053.jpg)

Does anyone have any leads that I can run with in doing this at all?  I'm looking for a certain resistor or potentiometer. 
Can we brainstorm at all in how to get the pizeo tuned?

Closer,
==Romo


(P.S.-- Copper IS gold picture I was talking about:
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/petar113507/CopperISGold.jpg))
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 14, 2011, 12:54:13 PM
Wow Romo,

I wish I had some of your energy and whatever else you have going for you.  You're doing a great job.  Thanks for sharing all your great information.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 14, 2011, 01:00:29 PM
Thanks Power1 for sharing this information.  I'm communicating with higher self but it's not getting back to me yet.  When I'm talking to it in a relaxed state, I get a very strange feeling from it like I'm really talking to another person.


Thank you Slovenia, the back up files will come handy someday.
Nature has remedies to aid with your dreams and manifestation of reality. Shaman uses them but I dont.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 14, 2011, 03:58:23 PM
I have everything except the ammonia, I picked up some 29%. Starting trials asap...I picked up a distilling kit from Lab Depot and a hot plate...
Title: Making Crystals (Alternate Method)
Post by: Slovenia on March 14, 2011, 05:00:07 PM
One of our team members from Energetic Forum, Vickers, just shared an easy way to make the Powerme crystals in an easier alternate way.  He's had great success with this method.  Here you go:


From EF by Vickers
Hope Powerme dont mind but I would like to simplify some of his very simple instructions. (just to speed things up a little).

Zinc oxide can be bought at any pottery supply outlet over the counter.
May not be nano... but if u really keen u can grind the hell out of it with a mortar and pestle for as long as u can.

Can concentrate ammonia easily and safely using a crock pot with upside down lid full of icewater. Place a small collector bowl in center of crock pot.

Instead of mag stirrer and hotplate use a plastic drink bottle. Ur household hot tap water is 60C. To prevent fumes make sure u seal it as mentioned in powerme first post. This is perfectly safe. There will be zero pressure build up. Learn boiling temp of water VS boiling temp of ammonia.
Immerse bottle in hot tap water to heat and shake the hell out of it every minute or so. The longer the better.

Freeze overnight to concentrate the ammonia and slowly heat again to maximize the reaction of highly concentrated yet safely contained ammonia.

Pour onto oven tray and evaporate.

Scrape up ur crystals.

Done.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 14, 2011, 07:31:06 PM
Two things.

One -- Distilling the ammonium is easiest done inside the freezer, and a jar of some kind.

Bring it down to 0* -- the water freezes, and the ammonium doesnt.  Use a metalfilter, to "screen" off the ice.

Do it twice, and it's WAY above the concentration that we need for this experiment.  THAT is the simplest that I've found, and stick to this one as of yet.  Takes about 6 hours to distill it twice.


Second,
Those "natures aids" reminded me of something I read about shaman, and psychoactives.  They called Salvia divinorum  the "shaman's herb".  Someone I knew, also grew crystals (a concentrated version of the psychoactive in Salvia) from the stuff, and tripped out really hard.  Kid never was the same thereafter.

Drugs, are not the "real" way to open up various parts of your endocrine system (chakras) -- but can temporarily open them up, so that you know when the thing is "open" or not.  For some people, it works because it gives them a roadmap of getting themselves more "enlightened"  but because your body needs to 'process' the chemicals, it can be harder on your liver or kidneys.

Knowing when the different parts are "open" can let you know what you need to do, on a daily basis in order to become more "open".  Now, taking drugs -- won't help you if you don't pay attention to where your feelings go in the first place.  This might be a little bit over some people's heads -- but feelings travel places in your body. 

When you are frustrated, or angry -- Most people know the "lump" in your throat. How did the lump get there?  Where does it go when you get rid of it?  (Answer here, Most people know the sigh after being frustrated & had solved it -- The sigh is the physical indicator of a deeper process.  When I say the feelings "travel" between bodyparts -- I am asking you to pay attention to where your feelings go, or how they feel when they go somewhere.  You become more sensitive with this over time.)

Also, people don't always pay attention to the "tingles" that happen when you have a good idea, or have done something right.
Your body is a very powerful tool, and will tell you quite a bit you'll need to know.  All you need do, is listen.

If you are sensitive to these internal processes, and are aware what happens to you on a regular basis -- experiencing the altered state, can be insightful.

This is terribly off tangent though.  Onward to the pizeo-electric today and tomorrow!

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 14, 2011, 07:57:33 PM
Hey Slovenia,
Thank you for your continued effort. Your pvc idea is great, it is a very durable material. My little shoebox was just a quick way to entice people into seeing the many possibilities of water as fuel.  Experiment with your setup, you will come up with your own unique way.
For self eccentric, it will develop over time, much like speech process. My process started with cosmic orgasm, and the manifestation of intelligent entities, yes they do exist, hence I was a Dog but don't dwell upon the phases, keep moving.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romo, you have a great mind, there are many papers though restricted in Sonochemistry and other published works that employed Keeleys findinds of water dissociation at 43khz. The ZnO crystals amplifies the HHO production.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nature is the best way to go, but a concentrated natural dose will allow one to experience the higher realm first hand, not a good way but a helpful one, Leary had already explained them but it's a tiny portion of the All.

Good luck all and thank you for your efforts, everyone has their own unique way.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 14, 2011, 07:59:55 PM
Hi Romo,

Thanks for going off track on the higher senses thing.  I appreciate it very much.  I think this process is also important to our work or Powerme wouldn't have referenced it so much.  He said a lot of things that were very insightful and interesting, but I couldn't really relate to this aspect, because I've never utilized it before.  I've just been running on empty with the regular brain.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Thanks Powerme
Post by: Slovenia on March 14, 2011, 08:08:29 PM
Thanks Powerme for your continued support.  Most of us need it because we don't have the gift yet that you and Romo share.  We are fortunate to have both of you sharing with us.

Hey Slovenia,
Thank you for your continued effort. Your pvc idea is great, it is a very durable material. My little shoebox was just a quick way to entice people into seeing the many possibilities of water as fuel.  Experiment with your setup, you will come up with your own unique way.
For self eccentric, it will develop over time, much like speech process. My process started with cosmic orgasm, and the manifestation of intelligent entities, yes they do exist, hence I was a Dog but don't dwell upon the phases, keep moving.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romo, you have a great mind, there are many papers though restricted in Sonochemistry and other published works that employed Keeleys findinds of water dissociation at 43khz. The ZnO crystals amplifies the HHO production.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nature is the best way to go, but a concentrated natural dose will allow one to experience the higher realm first hand, not a good way but a helpful one, Leary had already explained them but it's a tiny portion of the All.

Good luck all and thank you for your efforts, everyone has their own unique way.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 14, 2011, 08:19:17 PM
Romo,
Have you seen the video Power to be posted the link for a while back?  I almost missed it. His transducer is out of a humidifier and it operates at 48 Khz.  It has the driver circuit too.  Easy access for mods.  I may have to go to walmart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwWj-gcYPTg&feature=related

Great video. 

Thanks again Power to be.

Thanks for the link!  I totally missed that.

From the looks of things, as I am taking apart one of the two transducers I have -- They look like they're not going to give up their little circutboard easily.  This leads me to the conclusion, we will effectively have to build our own circutboard, or find one.

Circutry, gentlemen, is not my area of expertise. 
Is there any way we can have circutboards made through an onlinecompany, and then distributed through this group?  I might know a few of them that wouldn't be too expensive. 
Like I said though -- It is not my area of expertise.  I do not think I have the technical-know-how to build one of those things from scratch.  I'm currently looking up the how-to's -- but I think there must be a faster way.

So, what I am proposing, is to make a joint effort to create the circutboard/oscilator circut, and then we would purchase them, distribute them -- and effectively have the same working oscillator on the transducer in the end.

Please contact me via PM, or at askromo@gmail.com
I am looking to get this done as soon as possible (within a few days).
If you're on the ball for this project, I hope to hear from you.

On a side note -- has anyone given much consideration as to where to bind the crystals?

I was thinking of putting them on the inside of a copper-pipe and laying a very thin layer of expoxy or ceramic therein. (pipe as per-that last video)

I could then put the spark gap outside the pipe, and into a secondary mist chamber.  The primary "mister" would be governed by the "influencer" to produce more HHO.  The secondary chamber would be towards adding more water vapor, so that the mixture does not become too HHO rich.

Then, on to the inlet/intake manifold.

The valve on the side of the copper pipe would be attached to a refill-sensor (for a later build version), and added water when need be.

Like this,



==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 14, 2011, 11:11:53 PM
petar113507,  Is the item in your hand in the last picture the inside bottom (or top) of the ultrasonic fogger?  If so it's no surprise that it appears to be encased in silicone or some other potting material since the unit has to be underwater.  If it's silicone rubber like it may be possible to peel away the silicone to get at the circuit but if it's a harder material it's probably going to difficult to avoid damaging the circuit.  I think it would be fairly easy to build a circuit but I would mostly be concerned about how well it would work with the existing disk if the frequency is much higher that the circuit feeding it now. 
The circuit below would be simple enough and is variable by VR1 from 40 to 50 Khz which is right in our target range.  Circuit description below from :http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams.com/audioimages/audiockt10.shtml


"Circuit of a new type of remote control switch is described here. This circuit functions with inaudible (ultrasonic) sound. Sound of frequency up to 20 kHz is audible to human beings. The sound of frequency above 20 kHz is called ultrasonic sound. The circuit described generates (transmits) ultrasonic sound of frequency between 40 and 50 kHz. As with any other remote control system this cirucit too comprises a mini transmitter and a receiver circuit. Transmitter generates ultrasonic sound and the receiver senses ultrasonic sound from the transmitter and switches on a relay. The ultrasonic transmitter uses a 555 based astable multivibrator. It oscillates at a frequency of 40-50 kHz. An ultrasonic transmitter transducer is used here to transmit ultrasonic sound very effectively. The transmitter is powered from a 9-volt PP3 single cell. The ultrasonic receiver circuit uses an ultrasonic receiver transducer to sense ultrasonic signals. It also uses a two-stage amplifier, a rectifier stage, and an operational amplifier in inverting mode. Output of op-amp is connected to a relay through a complimentary relay driver stage. A 9-volt battery eliminator can be used for receiver circuit, if required. When switch S1 of transmitter is pressed, it generates ultrasonic sound. The sound is received by ultrasonic receiver transducer. It converts it to electrical variations of the same frequency. These signals are amplified by transistors T3 and T4. The amplified signals are then rectified and filtered. The filtered DC voltage is given to inverting pin of op-amp IC2. The non- inverting pin of IC2 is connected to a variable DC voltage via preset VR2 which determines the threshold value of ultrasonic signal received by receiver for operation of relay RL1. The inverted output of IC2 is used to bias transistor T5. When transistor T5 conducts, it supplies base bias to transistor T6. When transistor T6 conducts, it actuates the relay. The relay can be used to control any electrical or electronic equipment. Important hints:
1. Frequency of ultrasonic sound generated can be varied from 40 to 50 kHz range by adjusting VR1. Adjust it for maximum performance.
2. Ultrasonic sounds are highly directional. So when you are operating the switch the ultrasonic transmitter transducer of transmitter should be placed towards ultrasonic receiver transducer of receiver circuit for proper functioning.
3. Use a 9-volt PP3 battery for transmitter. The receiver can be powered from a battery eliminator and is always kept in switched on position.
4. For latch facility use a DPDT relay if you want to switch on and switch off the load. A flip-flop can be inserted between IC2 and relay. If you want only an �ON-time delay� use a 555 only at output of IC2. The relay will be energised for the required period determined by the timing components of 555 monostable multivibrator.
5. Ultrasonic waves are emitted by many natural sources. Therefore, sometimes, the circuit might get falsely triggered, espically when a flip-flop is used with the circuit, and there is no remedy for that."
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 14, 2011, 11:18:53 PM
One other note on that circuit is I'm not sure the output power would be strong enough.  If not we might get some help from some others here to suggest some add ons for higher power.  Hopefully this doesn't seem to complex but it may be needed to hit the target frequency which I believe is important.  555 circuits and help in building them is abundant on the Internet.  They are really fairly simple and generally quite inexpensive to build.  No need for a circuit board even at these frequencies.   Last circuit I built around a 555 I just put it into a small box and filled it with Silicone.   
Title: Circuit for Adjusting Piezo
Post by: Slovenia on March 15, 2011, 01:18:47 PM
I just remembered that I have a retired electrician friend in Canada who may be willing to help us.  He can make circuits for anything.  He owns Chemelec.  I'll contact him and see if he'd be willing to help us out.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 15, 2011, 01:52:43 PM
Great job guys, please keep it simple. Stay with the cheap china piezo, they have decent life, 1500 hrs average and is readily available. Someone mentioned the humidifiers,  some model comes with variable frequency, no further modification needed but a bit more costly.

e2matrix,  I had tried  Tesla oscillation  and it does work as well to ionize fog using tubular condensor, added bonus is  repulsion effect but it's a whole different approach.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 15, 2011, 02:05:24 PM
Fellows
I think its ROMO's pic
When you post at this forum ,if your image is to large
It makes the entire page huge and we have to scroll back and forth to read!
please keep your pics at the reccomended size?
Romo if you resize those pics the page will go back to normal.
Thanks
Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 15, 2011, 06:43:16 PM
I just found a great deal on 29% ammonium hydroxide and ordered a 500 Ml container for $10 plus $10 S&H.  That's very cheap guys.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 15, 2011, 09:56:12 PM
So the transducer itself has the circuit on it? Why don't we just use that and feed it with whatever voltage it needs?

Attached is my plan layout. One problem might be the crystals being exposed directly to water. If this causes the effect to disappear I'll try a wettable envelope (although I don't know what difference it will make?)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 16, 2011, 04:34:54 AM
Fellows
I think its ROMO's pic
When you post at this forum ,if your image is to large
It makes the entire page huge and we have to scroll back and forth to read!
please keep your pics at the reccomended size?
Romo if you resize those pics the page will go back to normal.
Thanks
Chet

Currentlyy having problems editing/finding the editbutton on that post.  I'll see what I can do.  :(

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 16, 2011, 04:50:45 AM
So the transducer itself has the circuit on it? Why don't we just use that and feed it with whatever voltage it needs?

Attached is my plan layout. One problem might be the crystals being exposed directly to water. If this causes the effect to disappear I'll try a wettable envelope (although I don't know what difference it will make?)

The ultrasonic pond foggers have an oscilator on them already.  Those oscilators, (for watever reason) were not made to be vibrating at the 43 KHZ that we want them to.  Currently, mine does not vibrate fast enough.

When you make them vibrate faster -- you encounter "ineffecinces" -- I would suspect that this may be the reason powerme has a 36 V input power -- so that the thing still runs or produces forceful enough oscilations.  I will see about keeping the same input transformer (24v) with a faster oscilator, and seeing if the voltage input needs to be stepped up or not.

As chance would have it, one of my room-mates father's is an electrical engineer.  I will be contacting him shortly, and he should also be able to give me his "two cents" about something that should work.

Progress will first be made by someone who posts what their "known electrical engineer" says about a circut.  Mine will contact me in a few days.  If anyone else's contacts them sooner -- please post info, so that we can each 'cross check' to see if one's methods will work or not.  (For me, double checking has been a good practice thus far)

My spark plug arrived today for the 160 CC engine.  So the fogger is the last bit that I need to get working (at the right frequencies), and then I should be able to confirm a replicated "water runner".  I have everything else on-hand, and ready.

At first, I will be testing a lead-acid battery envelopes -- and a will investigate a secondary way of sticking the crystals to some form of acrylic, or steel plates, with some kind of adhesive. 

This is all the progress I can report, aside from reading into some books that powerme might have also "suggested" (at least, a book related to his tangents left behind) to read about.

Will post some of these books shortly,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 16, 2011, 05:05:27 AM
The books contained in "book package"
(Lemme know if the link goes down)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=533MBGYE

The life of henry caverndesh - This guy was also interested in igniting water.  He discovered hydrogen, and all sorts of quirks about water.  This book has given me the beginning of some tangents to press further into his works. (I.E. Looking up more stuff about him)

A treatise on cemistry - Metals (part I & II)

Zinc production and history -- A book about 18th century uses, and refining techniques for zinc.  This book has given me a general idea on how to process zamak -- as well as some of the "crystal" forms of zinc.  I have not carefully looked twice, but have not found that they knew about pizeoelectric properties of the crystals in this book.

Powerme, can you throw out any tangents that relate to these crystals?  How did you learn how to "make the honey of different nectars" with these crystals?  What kind of book/publication can we find the information about lead sulfide/oxide crystals that you are talking about growing?  Did they know in "olden days" what the properties of the crystals were?(I.E.what would they call the effects of the crystals that we would be making?)  What kind of process are we making the crystals with? What did they call those processes?

I am looking for more tangents to research, to 'get ahead' in crystal production -- what aim we will be having with the leaden crystals.  Any clear processes, or instructions are much valued.

For instance -- after you mentioned "influencing", I knew I should become aquainted with all the information about the subject that I could.  (Of which, I am still looking for more, to make the ionizer/wind pump).  Any other processes, or key words in those processes that will assist on what is going on with the crystals (how they draw energy from the enviroment) -- what kind of energy they will be harvesting (I suspect, infared radiation?) -- how we will be rectifying both sides of the wave (in the crystal oscilation), ETC.

That is, unless I am putting the cart before the horse here.

Anything is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for all your help so far,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: CompuTutor on March 16, 2011, 05:18:21 AM
Currentlyy having problems editing/finding the editbutton on that post.  I'll see what I can do.  :(

==Romo

Yeah, the button says "Modify",
it is upper right next to "Quote"
and it disappears after way to short a period of time...

Sadly, that is by design,
and the time limit is set way to low !
Title: Piezo frequency
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 16, 2011, 03:43:41 PM
Hey guys,
I finally got a chance to hook a scope to my piezo.  It's not as simple as it seems.  The piezo disc is part of the circuit.  The oscillator circuit looks to be sending the piezo disc a sawtooth wave @ 120 Hz.
When you hook the piezo disc to the circuit, it turns into a perfect sine wave @ 1.73 Mhz.  This is the frequency the manufacturer said it should be.  This might be a little tricky. :-\

More  to do....

Rick
Title: Piezoelectric Frequency
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 16, 2011, 06:09:00 PM
Added a 33uH inductor in series with the disc and dropped the frequency to about 1Mhz.  The interesting thing I noticed was the voltage jumped up to 206 volts!  :o

I tried driving the disc with a function generator.  I tried 120hz sine and square waves and I could not get anything out of the disc.  I also tried 20hz - 1.5Khz, and nothing got it going. :(  I did not try saw tooth wave, I dont have that function.  :-[
 ???

Rick
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 16, 2011, 07:39:15 PM
RAD-HHO,  Thanks for your info and tests on this.  Very interesting results and not at all what I expected.  This is considerably different than what I thought based on the circuit I built many years ago. 

I think it would be great if we could get some input now from Power to Be on how to get the frequency up to the target 43-45 Khz.  If this is as different as it seems then maybe simply increasing the voltage may be a way to increase the frequency but I wouldn't want anyone to risk ruining their setup based on that assumption.  I've got a function generator that will do sawtooth so I'll try to get time to test that. 

  Also if the piezo is putting out 1.73 Mhz that is way above the 43 Khz.  How does this result in producing the apparent 30 Khz range we were told they run in?  I'm lost now...     I'm curious how you were able to read the frequency with the piezo in the circuit?  I think the electrical frequency across the piezo is not the actual frequency it vibrates at since 1.73 Mhz is way above ultrasonic frequency.  I'm guessing here but it sounds like we may need to raise that frequency to get a higher vibration output at the disk. 
Title: Transducer update
Post by: petar113507 on March 16, 2011, 08:11:01 PM
Rad HHO, as you slowed down the frequency, the voltage went up?  I would think that you would have hit a standstill (a point which thereafter, the pizeo-electric would not respond).  I think that may be limited by your input voltage.

My thought here, is that the two are co-related.  Except with increasing the frequency, you would need more voltage to compensate.  I do not know why, but this is just the route that I would normally investigate with the wave-generators.  (Edit:  This is what e2matrix said.  :)  Thanks for the info!  ;D )

I have found some circut-boards.  China markets are pretty diverse, and can find a lot of stuff.  You just gotta look carefully:
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/hainetec1/product-detailFMOQVpBKMHkI/China-Ultrasonic-Generator-Ultrasonic-PCB-.html

Thoughts there? ???

On the off chance that anyone can look -- why not just look into a high frequencey ultrasonic transducer?
I am finding some transducers which are of novel cost (I'd assume shipping is the kicker):
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/352922184/10w_50Khz_Ultrasonic_transducer.html

If the pizeo's do not work  (or if we cannot easily adapt the input voltage to match the frequency), then I would imagine that these kind of transducers may fit the bill.

My next questions: Do we know if we are trying to hit 43 KHZ exactly, or just above the 43 KHZ range?
Next, why are we looking for the dis-association frequencey?  How do the crystals just "help" the dis-association (does it work better at certain frequencies, or is it just the electrical oscilation of the crystal that rips water molecules apart?)

Is it not the electric force that we are breaking, through the pizeoelectric oscilations at a set frequency?  Or does this somehow infer that through sound that we can manipulate the electric nature of matter?  I would imagine "constructive intereference" to be coupling together, amplifying itself at at certain resonant frequencies to produce electric effects? 
If this is the case, this would sound like a base, in the work that keeley was associated with.

These questions are posed to everyone -- they are questions which I would normally ask myself.  In this case, I have not yet found the answers to them, so instead of reporting back with the answer, I am merely asking the question.

I hope it sparks someone else to discuss,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 16, 2011, 09:36:12 PM
RAD-HHO,  Thanks for your info and tests on this.  Very interesting results and not at all what I expected.  This is considerably different than what I thought based on the circuit I built many years ago. 

I think it would be great if we could get some input now from Power to Be on how to get the frequency up to the target 43-45 Khz.  If this is as different as it seems then maybe simply increasing the voltage may be a way to increase the frequency but I wouldn't want anyone to risk ruining their setup based on that assumption.  I've got a function generator that will do sawtooth so I'll try to get time to test that. 

  Also if the piezo is putting out 1.73 Mhz that is way above the 43 Khz.  How does this result in producing the apparent 30 Khz range we were told they run in?  I'm lost now...     I'm curious how you were able to read the frequency with the piezo in the circuit?  I think the electrical frequency across the piezo is not the actual frequency it vibrates at since 1.73 Mhz is way above ultrasonic frequency.  I'm guessing here but it sounds like we may need to raise that frequency to get a higher vibration output at the disk.

If you look at the last photo http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10388.0;attach=51510;image, you can see I used jumper wires with alligator clips and a small spring to connect the piezo disc.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 16, 2011, 09:57:40 PM
So, the pizeo-ceramic discs:

http://www.annon.com.cn/product/PZT-atomizing.htm

The driving circut board:
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/hainetec1/product-detailFMOQVpBKMHkI/China-Ultrasonic-Generator-Ultrasonic-PCB-.html

I would only like a clear "that should work" before I buy the units.  The pond foggers are nice trinkets, but I don't have the expertise to modify them myself.
I have since, been looking for high frequency transducers, or variable frequency humidifiers.

Written a few emails to a few companies, will wait for replies to point me towards the right product, which should 'fit the bill' for this project.

Cheers,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 16, 2011, 10:12:58 PM
So, the pizeo-ceramic discs:

http://www.annon.com.cn/product/PZT-atomizing.htm

The driving circut board:
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/hainetec1/product-detailFMOQVpBKMHkI/China-Ultrasonic-Generator-Ultrasonic-PCB-.html

I would only like a clear "that should work" before I buy the units.  The pond foggers are nice trinkets, but I don't have the expertise to modify them myself.
I have since, been looking for high frequency transducers, or variable frequency humidifiers.

Written a few emails to a few companies, will wait for replies to point me towards the right product, which should 'fit the bill' for this project.

Cheers,
==Romo

Here is where I'm confused.  If you will notice all of the atomizer piezos are in the range 1.7 to 2.4 Mhz. The piezos used for cleaning are in the 43 khz range.  Can we drive the 1.7 Mhz piezo with the 43 Khz driver?  That is the question.  I'm not so sure.   :-\

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 16, 2011, 10:15:36 PM
More testing, or more input from someone who knows is needed......
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 16, 2011, 11:22:50 PM
Here is where I'm confused.  If you will notice all of the atomizer piezos are in the range 1.7 to 2.4 Mhz. The piezos used for cleaning are in the 43 khz range.  Can we drive the 1.7 Mhz piezo with the 43 Khz driver?  That is the question.  I'm not so sure.   :-\

I'm calling the manufacturer for a few ultrasonic humidifiers. 

I'll post what I find out from them.  From what it sounds like so far -- You have to compensate at a higher input voltage, of offset the "inefficiencies" that ocurr at higher frequencies of the vibrating transducer.

I think it may be easiest (for the primary working model at least) to have an oscilator/humidifier that runs between 40-50 KHZ.

I asked about the frequencies, because if we are just using the crystals in HHO production, we can use a jewlery cleaner for the extra HHO liberation.  Thereafter -- use the pond fogger, and the "ionizer" to pump the air + hho into the intake manifold of the engine.

(These are my plans)
I am not trying for a selfrunner -- just a proof-of-concept model, that you can run an engine on sheerly HHO, and water.  Afterwards, I have generated sufficent interest in a working model, that I can investigate soley using the cheaper pond foggers, and the ionizers to produce the nescessary HHO to make it a selfrunner.  This might have the potential cut out the pizeo-electric crystals entirely -- I do not yet know.  Tests, and funds are further required for that.

I am simply trying to get SOMETHING to produce the HHO nescessary to make a primary model.  So far, I can either modify the pond fogger (might not work, I have not found solid information -- after to days searching, it is a little frustrating.  I don't know if I'm looking for the correct keywords or information about the foggers.)

Any ideas?
==Romo

Edit:
Open mouth = inserted foot
(Look in Comments section for further keyword searching: http://www.instructables.com/community/Pond-Misters/ )
Title: Pond Foggers
Post by: Slovenia on March 17, 2011, 02:26:11 AM
Hi Romo,

You are doing a terrific job.  You have a lot of well focused energy and a great mind.  Thanks so much for sharing with all of us.

In several posts Powerme said we had all the information we needed to go forward with this project, so I've been going back and doing a lot of reading to see if there was something he shared earlier that I might have missed.  Well today, I saw that in one post he had ordered for himself 10 piezo ceramic at $3.00 each delivered.  I didn't find anything about the electronics he used in conjunction with the devices though.  I did see a post on Aaron's Gray Plug, where Powerme said he never used circuits as such.  So, I'm not exactly sure what he was doing.  I also saw in a more recent post where he said there were professional / industrial models of the piezo transducers available that  were fully tunable to the necessary specs.  In an even later post though, Powerme tells us to take care and not make it to complicated.  He's got a lot of clues out there but nothing has really clicked for me yet.  He also said in one post that it would be best for us all to got out and do our own research now instead of working with others.  Well, I'm glad we're working on this project as a team, because I'm not connected with my higher self yet and I need the help of others as we try to tie in all the loose ends here.

Thanks Powerme for all you have shared.  This is for sure a very interesting enlightening project.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Any ideas?
==Romo

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on March 17, 2011, 04:34:43 AM
Hello everyone

Thanks for all your efforts!  I love all the enthusiasm.  I was thinking the other night and did you think the reason there are two piezos in the water tank for running a 2.0L  motor is because they are two separate frequencies?  Like say what Mike is doing like one at say 45khz and one at 270khz?  Spacing of 6 times apart to fracture the water.  So then the crystals are adhered to some sort of sheets and hung into the tank?  This is going to magnify the effect?  The increase in voltage from 24 to 36 helps the piezo produce more(magnify the effect through the many more now oscillating crystals).

Chris
Title: Mega Upload Book Package Query
Post by: Slovenia on March 17, 2011, 11:11:58 AM
Hi Romo,

I'm unable to download your book package from Megaupload.  Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia


The books contained in "book package"
(Lemme know if the link goes down)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=533MBGYE

Thank you for all your help so far,
==Romo
Title: Sharp Electrical Guys
Post by: Slovenia on March 17, 2011, 11:16:30 AM
Hi Romo,

There are two really sharp electrical guys on Energetic who may be willing to help us briefly on the tuning of the China Piezo.  They have not been involved in this project as far as I know and are quite busy on other projects, but I have worked with them before and know them to be very good with electrical applications and such.  I think they are both inventors.  Their names on Energetic are Dragon & John_G.  Anyway, I will contact them ans see if I can spark any interest or help from them.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Piezo Site (In USA)
Post by: Slovenia on March 17, 2011, 01:46:47 PM
John_G sent this site to me.  He was trying to do something else with the piezos and was driving his with a signal generator.  Anyway, he's very busy and doesn't have time to help right now.  Here's the site he recommended that might have information for us.

http://www.americanpiezo.com/knowledge-center/piezo-theory/applications.html
Title: Re: Piezo frequency
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 17, 2011, 02:44:12 PM
Hey guys,
I finally got a chance to hook a scope to my piezo.  It's not as simple as it seems.  The piezo disc is part of the circuit.  The oscillator circuit looks to be sending the piezo disc a sawtooth wave @ 120 Hz.
When you hook the piezo disc to the circuit, it turns into a perfect sine wave @ 1.73 Mhz.  This is the frequency the manufacturer said it should be.  This might be a little tricky. :-\

More  to do....

Rick

Ignore this post!

I did not have the water sensor bypassed!  :-[

SORRY!

I am not able to modify it though!

I will post new results soon.......
Title: Piezoelectric Frequency Test 2
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 17, 2011, 05:59:01 PM
I am soooooo sorry!  :-[

I knew something wasn't right about the voltage being so low.

For some reason when the fogger is plugged in, but the water sensor is not sensing water, there is a saw tooth wave at the output @ about a half a volt.

When I activated the water sensor, the readings changed a little.
The saw tooth changed to a perfect sine wave, but still @ 120 Hz. The voltage is more what I expected @ 31 volts.

When I connected the piezo disc, with the water sensor made, the 120 Hz has 1.7 Mhz modulated on top of it. The voltage went up to 120 volts.

As of yet I don't have a function generator powerful enough to drive the piezo disc at 43 Khz. I have some pwm circuits I will have to dig out and try.

Rick
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 18, 2011, 04:11:05 AM
Guys, you are making this harder than it is. I had asked that you look at the Pierce oscillator circuit, the transducer is driven only by crystal transistor with capacitor. Oscillation can be altered by voltage, crystal angles or temperature. Wave frequency in the water needs to be 43khz +. If you keep increasing frequency, you will end up with abundant HHO from piezo only.

The Zno crystals amplifies the effect. What bonds H2+0, it has a property that you are controlling here. You need to be adhere ZnO to a permanent structure, what crystal geometry best amplifies wave frequency?. they are the same one used in electronics.

Nebulizer circuit, same as humidifier. http://www.tdk.co.jp/tefe02/ef441_nb.pdf

Look at the Sol-tec video, there's a comment on a patent application  there from Japan, research it. There are many ways to dissociate water into HHO with little energy expense.

You do not have much time, TIME is a luxury which you do not have. Earth is Changing!.


Title: IT WORKS!!
Post by: petar113507 on March 18, 2011, 06:26:34 AM
Guys! 
I have Great news!
The last batch of crystals did the trick.  I let them sit for longer than I usually would, and I thought that I was allowing it to grow longer crystals.  I didn't know if it worked or not until I had it dried.  It stopped raining today, and my crystals finally dried out.  Some of them that were stuck to the masonry jar.

So I scratched some of the crystals off the masonry jar.  Put it into a ziplock baggie.  Sucked out all the air I could.

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss173/Romo_Land/SaltWater/0317012142.jpg

Put it in water, above the pizeoelectric.  The waves were heavily dampened by the ziplock bag, but after a few minutes, I could see a few air bubbles in there that were not present before.

Took a bigger ziplock bag, and more of that batch of crystals.  Still little bubbles seemed to add up over time.  Because the crystals were not "stuck" to any surface, they were constantly swooshing around the bag.  I could not easily discern, which were air bubbles,and which were little zinc oxide bits floating around.

So, I stuck the transducer inside the masonry jar, and left it on its side.  No mist was produced, but I hammered the insides of that jar with the pond fogger frequency.  It appeared to still be producing minute ammounts of air, out of the water.  Little bubbles rose to the surface.

The pictures are bad quality -- but you might be able to see them.  They liked to bubble up around the power chord.

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss173/Romo_Land/SaltWater/0317012148.jpg

So, what have I concluded?

They DO work.  The crystals ARE pizeo-electric, and they produce HHO, in minute quantities.

So, what is the next step? 

We need to be making the crystals work better.

=================================

Powerme just mentioned a structure which amplified wave frequency.  I suspect a common household bowl, or "half basketball" shape would do the trick, if the ZnO were bound in the center somehow -- where the wave would be most compressed into the crystals.

Making the ultrasonic transducer run faster -- past 43 KHZ, also suposed to increase HHO production.  Peirce oscilator circut for the frequency mod. (Sorry, I missed that.  :( )

Making my own ZnO from zamak may be useful. (For the Al, and Mg. in small quantities in it)

The Ionizer to produce HHO, Post-mist-fogger in setup.

======================

I will be posting my further progress this week, in how I will be fine-tuning the system.
For now, the proof-of-concept -- IT WORKS.  :)

Happy thursday to a close,
I hope we make it in enough time.


On an off-tangent note -- Powerme, I do not quite know what I am preparing for. 
I only know that I am bracing against something to come.
Is there any way that I can know what I need to be prepared with?  Or how I need to be prepared?  If not from you, where may I learn it?  How long do we have?  It is driving me nuts to see everything slipping up a little bit, and not know how long I have.

Thank you for your time -- I am trying. 
So far, it seems to be working.  :)

==Romo
Title: Very Good Job
Post by: Slovenia on March 18, 2011, 10:32:52 AM
Very good job Romo!!  Thanks for the update.  Looks very promising.
Title: Thanks Power To Be!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 18, 2011, 10:37:47 AM
Thanks Power To Be for continuing to share with us.  It's always nice to hear from you.

Update on self connection:
I can lucid dream almost any time of day now.  But, the images in the dreams have nothing to do with the piezo-electric project.  Also, the persons in the dreams are usually people I don't know and have never seen before.  I am unable to relate to what message I am supposed to be getting from those dreams.  Anyway, I'm glad that I am at least making contact with something.  This is exciting.

Thanks for all you have shared!!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 18, 2011, 11:17:35 AM
Silicon (Si)  Quartz Crystals
Finely ground silica sand is available for sand blasting operations.  Those crystals would be very small indeed.  If the quartz needs to be adhered to a surface, maybe fine industrial sandpaper would work for lining the inside of our piezo cells.  Water proof sandpaper is readily available and comes as fine as you want it.  600 grit is as fine as you'd probably want. 

Anyway, please comment on this.  I'm trying to follow Power1's hints here. 


 You need to be adhere ZnO to a permanent structure, what crystal geometry best amplifies wave frequency?. they are the same one used in electronics.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 18, 2011, 11:33:15 AM
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=533MBGYE

New bookpackage upload link.
Title: Power1 Post (Raising Oscillation)
Post by: Slovenia on March 18, 2011, 12:02:55 PM
FYI:  If we can figure out how to raise oscillation.

Power1 (Post #114)
March 12, 2011
Power1

ewizard, china piezo were designed for water atomizing, fits the bill well, just
work on raising oscillation, very doable. you can easily get ready made
commercial resonator units, just look around.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 18, 2011, 01:43:20 PM
You can buy the circuit board from digikey for $96.
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1680633-nebulizer-unit-12vdc-13-2w-nb-80e-01-h.html


Anybody have any luck looking at the patent power mentioned?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 18, 2011, 01:54:19 PM
This is all I got.
100k to 1.5Mhz in accordance with the change of temperature of the water. My fogger is at 1.7M. This tells me it needs to be decreased, not increased.

Quote:
PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To decompose water into hydrogen and oxygen by using an ultrasonic machine. ; SOLUTION: Water is decomposed by controlling the wavelength of the ultrasonic machine in accordance with the change of temperature of the water, and the frequency is preferably 100,000 to 1,500,000 Hz. Clean hydrogen can be efficiently obtained and oxygen as well. ; COPYRIGHT: (C)2005,JPO&NCIPI
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 18, 2011, 02:27:09 PM
Romo
What you believe becomes your own Reality. Is something hapening, Yes/No, It does not matter. Fear is only a mind game, believe and you will become the victim. Is something happening to Earth, Yes there is. But do not Fear as you will be lost and confused. Demand proof, do not believe. Turn off your TV, forget about the News etc, Don't fall victim to the hoax and prank being played today, use your own intelligence.
----------------------------------------------------
RAD
I must say that I only use simple things from 19th century era, works just fine,  I had tuned my chamber with a balloon. If you are measuring water at 1.7mhz, then you should have lots of HHO already!.

You don't need to buy digikey circuit, you can make it. Or if you want to buy ready made, look at Alibaba, they have the same exact thing for fraction $, or better go taobao.com.
-----------------------------------------------------
Slovenia
Crystal oscillator circuits are old and easy to build.

You are working with ultrasonic waves here. Musical instruments will give fine examples.

What material and  geometry exhibits excellent acoustic harmonic qualities?, use that for your atomizing chamber.

How to adhere crystals, many different ways, what is best for you?. Other researchers used flexible materials, I use solid, it don't matter, what ever way that is practical for you.

How do you harvest ultrasonic waves, what shape or geometry should you make the collector?.

You answer is widely available. Forget wikipedia and these forums, look elsewhere. What did the other inventors used?.  Patents, old books etc.
Title: Thank You
Post by: Slovenia on March 18, 2011, 03:35:38 PM
Great to hear from you Power To Be.  Thanks for sharing!!


Slovenia
Crystal oscillator circuits are old and easy to build.

You are working with ultrasonic waves here. Musical instruments will give fine examples.

What material and  geometry exhibits excellent acoustic harmonic qualities?, use that for your atomizing chamber.

How to adhere crystals, many different ways, what is best for you?. Other researchers used flexible materials, I use solid, it don't matter, what ever way that is practical for you.

How do you harvest ultrasonic waves, what shape or geometry should you make the collector?.

You answer is widely available. Forget wikipedia and these forums, look elsewhere. What did the other inventors used?.  Patents, old books etc.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 19, 2011, 06:34:58 AM
Maybe we can bypass the need for a specific geometry by just maximizing surface area that the waves will contact. Just my thinking...
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on March 19, 2011, 06:36:11 AM
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/296609408/ultrasonic_atomizing_piezoelectric_transducer.html

Are these the cheap transducers that would work for this project?

For shapes what comes to mind is a tube or a cone for the atomizing chamber as it seems everything in electronics is circular or tube shaped. 

Chris
Title: Choices
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 10:36:17 AM
Thanks for your input!

Ultimately it is the choice of the experimenter what they do, but I do want Power To Be to share as much as he will concerning the optimum design of his device.  I want to achieve the optimum results with my machine.  I think the hints he gave us yesterday with the questions directed to me. Slovenia, were significant. 

Maybe we can bypass the need for a specific geometry by just maximizing surface area that the waves will contact. Just my thinking...
Title: Power To Be Questions from Yesterday (Posed March 18, 2011)
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 10:59:14 AM
Power To Be Questions from yesterday (Posed March 18, 2011)

Well folks,

Yesterday Power To Be posed, I think, some very significant questions to me with regard to his water injection device. I feel we need to pool our resources and answer these questions as a group so that he will continue to give us hints like this about how an optimum system should be designed. Anyway, here are the questions he asked again and his support information.

Power1 Questions:

Slovenia,
Crystal oscillator circuits are old and easy to build.

You are working with ultrasonic waves here. Musical instruments will give fine examples.

1.) What material and geometry exhibits excellent acoustic harmonic qualities?

Use that for your atomizing chamber.

2.) How do you adhere crystals to other surfaces?

There are many different ways. Choose what is best for you. Other researchers used flexible materials but I use solid. It doesn't matter, what ever way that is practical for you.

3.) How do you harvest ultrasonic waves, what shape or geometry should you make the collector?

Your answer is widely available. Forget wikipedia and these forums, look elsewhere. What did the other inventors use? Check out patents, old books, etc.
Title: Question Responses (Problems Solved)
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 11:11:09 AM

Please refer to my later posts!!  I answered all of Power To Be's questions.

I still haven't determined what crystal oscillator to use yet, but we're starting to click real well now.

Happy sailing!!
Title: What Did We Learn From Power To Be's Question of March 18?
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 11:23:41 AM
What Did We Learn From Power To Be's Question of March 18?

#1)  We probably need to use a crystal oscillator.

#2)  It would be advisable to use an acoustical horn in conjunction with the transducers with the transducer in the chamber of the horn.

#3)  The acoustical horn should be made of brass.

#4)  We need to adhere the zinc crystals to some sort of structure within the cell.  Flexible or rigid makes no difference.

#5)  We need a collector to harvest our ultrasonic waves and it needs to be a certain configuration.  There's a special geometry required for optimally harvesting ultrasonic waves.  So, we need to utilize that optimum shape, geometry, for harvesting our ultrasonic waves if we are going for optimum results.
Title: HELP!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 11:26:38 AM
We're cooking with gas now but some other ideas would be helpful.
Title: Power To Be Questions Answered (from March 18, 2011)
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 12:12:18 PM
I figured it out!!


Power To Be Questions from yesterday (Posed March 18, 2011)

1.) What material and geometry exhibits excellent acoustic harmonic qualities?
Use this for your atomizing chamber!!

Response:
The atomizing chamber must be in the shape of an acoustic horn and the material used must be brass.

2.) How do you adhere crystals to other surfaces?

Response:
Water proof epoxy

3.) How do you harvest ultrasonic waves, what shape or geometry should you make the collector?

Response:
The receiver, collector, must be in the shape of a bowl.  I noticed the bowls at the top of Power1's diagram and they really puzzled me.  Well, I finally figured out what they were and why they were there.  So, the zinc crystals are not in the water at all but coated on the inside of the bowls at the top of the cell.


Recap:

The transducers are at the bottom of the cell and there are two of them one on each side spaced accordingly.  They are aimed at the bowls, collectors, at the top of the cell.  The bowls are coated with the zinc crystals.  So, the water is atomized at the bottom of the cell with the transducers and they are harmonically aimed with a brass acoustical horn at the bowls, collectors, at the top of the cell.  So, guys we have it.
Title: Thanks You!!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 12:13:50 PM
Thank you Power To Be for making me use my brain!!!  I really do appreciate it.  I'd forgotten I had one.
Title: Acoustic Horn & Receiver Relationship (Power1's Diagram)
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 02:11:15 PM
Acoustic Horn & Receiver Relationship (Power1's Diagram)

http://i52.tinypic.com/20hsdh5.png
Title: Power To Be 12 Volt Fan Query
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 02:20:11 PM
Hi Power To Be,

What is the 12 volt fan for.  I've been meaning to ask about that.  I see it shown on top of your cell diagram.  Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on March 19, 2011, 03:02:21 PM
Wow Solvenia thats awesome thinking!  I missed the splash guards completely.  When I put the crystals into the water something didnt seem right though.  The reaction just seemed to slow to a crawl.  So when the fog comes into contact with the crystals it turns to HHO.  It does this by tapping or bumping into the crystals producing a voltage which in turn causes the fog to become HHO.  Is there anything you guys want me to do or look into further?  I have a friend who is an electrical engineer too. 

Chris
Title: Electrical Engineer
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 04:03:45 PM
Hi Superman,

I think we are getting very close to being ready to do some experimenting.  There are a few loose ends still though that we need to tie up.

#1)  Best easy crystal oscillator circuit for the job.  Power says to only use old ones that were discussed in old books and not from anywhere else.  So, we still need to research that out.  There are a lot of circuits out there but we need the right one, (i.e.: something old and simple that works).

#2)  Easy cheap way to get our voltage for the cell to 36 volts.  There are some really good adjustable transformers and Peter Lindemann has an interesting voltage doubler circuit.  I'm still playing with all this.

#3)  What's the fan for that's shown on top of Power's cell?

Any outside assistance would be much appreciated.

I've got some interesting designs for pvc cells which I'll propose shortly.

Best Regards,
Slovenia




Wow Solvenia thats awesome thinking!  I missed the splash guards completely.  When I put the crystals into the water something didnt seem right though.  The reaction just seemed to slow to a crawl.  So when the fog comes into contact with the crystals it turns to HHO.  It does this by tapping or bumping into the crystals producing a voltage which in turn causes the fog to become HHO.  Is there anything you guys want me to do or look into further?  I have a friend who is an electrical engineer too. 

Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on March 19, 2011, 04:35:12 PM
I think the fan is for recirculating the fog and creating turbulence in the chamber.  The fog always tends to stay low cause its heavier than air.  Did you try creating fog yet?  This is what I observed.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 19, 2011, 06:02:58 PM
Thanks Slovenia for sharing your attempts of deciphering Power's clues. I definitely need yours and others help with this guessing game. I for one don't know how the effective US frequency's travel, whether they can still be effective outside the water, or outside of the direct path of the disks? Your idea is interesting and for all i know may be spot on? I'm going to try to simply coat the inside diameter of a copper pipe with the US disk at the bottom. Then testing it with stock frequency (because changing the frequency is beyond my knowledge and abilities).

FWIW
The these US Foggers do a lot of splashing, and a bowl like splash guards are sold here. http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html

They also sell a controllers, I wonder if those controllers change the frequency?

I bought a different type of US fogger.   I wonder if it runs on a different frequency. If someone in the US has a way of testing the frequency of these things, i can send you one of mine to test if you would like you can PM me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180603160113&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 19, 2011, 07:11:33 PM

@All, thank you for your continued efforts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

superman
there are many transducers, just make sure it is submersible and cxan operate above 43khz.

You can buy small lots from taobao.com, use a translator to search. In their electronic component section you can find transducer, complete circuits, professional high frequency drivers etc for less than 20% or less of listed price in the US. You can buy from several different vendors and have a Broker concile shipment into 1 lot to save lots$$ on shipping.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slovenia,
The DC fan was a quick approcah to moving fog for water injection, not practical due to auto operating conditions but gives a demo of how to move fog out. Ionic air or electric wind is much more feasible. HHO will freely flow out of the chamber but you still need to move atomize fog to help in cooling of ICE.

For circuit, you dont need anything fancy, the Nebulizer circuit will work and you can put one together with readily available parts.
In Sonochemistry, the higher the frequency, the higher the effeciency lowering wattage. This is easily done by increasing voltage alone. 

Acoustic dissociation of water wil cease at higher frequency above few mhz. If you employ electric wind or ion influence, other effects occurs too.
Brass is a great material, optimal effeciency can be utilized at a later stage to fine tune performance and scale down the device into a smaller size.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

RAD
You can dissociate water effeciently with ultrasonic alone, ZnO amplifies effect dramatically lowering input energy, Ion influence will also dissociate atomized water alone at extreme effeciency.

Sonoluminescence in water is also possible where acoustic wave is turned into light, these effects reflects cold fusion properties or may be the same thing!.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romo,
You have a small window to harvest moon dew of Ormes, don't let this one pass.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
fishman,
coat the copper pipe with ZnO and mount piezo on the bottom of pipe. ZnO works best when in contact with water.
Title: Fan
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 07:18:56 PM
No, I haven't built anything yet.  I've been in the alternate fuel business about seven or so years now and wasted a lot of money on projects that didn't pan out, so I'm a lot more cautious now.  I do feel very good about this project.  My gut tells me this is the real deal and that's why I have spent so much time with it.  I also believe that Power1 will show us more stuff if we show him some action, activity, on his cell and I do plan to do that soon.  I got my powder yesterday and should get my ammonium hydroxide by Tuesday of next week.  I don't have my stirring sticks yet.  I've been designing my cells.  I've been utilizing some techniques Romo shared with us about a week back on contacting the higher self.  I think I am starting to see some positive results.  Thanks Romo.  Anyway, I saw the fan on the top of Power1's diagram and noticed that I hadn't heard any explanation of a fan.  There are some other components talked about though that are not shown in the diagram.  We are getting really close guys.  I think we are going to see some very positive results shortly and then Power1 will open another door for us.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

I think the fan is for recirculating the fog and creating turbulence in the chamber.  The fog always tends to stay low cause its heavier than air.  Did you try creating fog yet?  This is what I observed.
Title: Acoustic Horn & Receiver
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 07:23:38 PM
The acoustic horn needs to be made out of brass and I think of fairly thin material.  The configuration of the horn needs to be just so I'm thinking also.  I also think the   bowl receivers need to be made of brass also.  Anyway, I'm thinking that the bowl needs to be able to vibrate too.  The bowl is pure speculation on my part at this juncture.  I will probably try something else first and then experiment with the brass bowls later.  There are a lot of brass bowls available from India and they are fairly inexpensive.

I may be wrong on the bowl material.
Title: Re: Acoustic Horn & Receiver
Post by: The Power To Be on March 19, 2011, 07:39:12 PM
The acoustic horn needs to be made out of brass and I think of fairly thin material.  The configuration of the horn needs to be just so I'm thinking also.  I also think the   bowl receivers need to be made of brass also.  Anyway, I'm thinking that the bowl needs to be able to vibrate too.  The bowl is pure speculation on my part at this juncture.  I will probably try something else first and then experiment with the brass bowls later.  There are a lot of brass bowls available from India and they are fairly inexpensive.

I may be wrong on the bowl material.
There are many fascinating things you can do with Brass in acoustic cavitation!. The sky is not the limit, water has many many phases. For the water fuel project, simple atomizing ultrasonic chamber  will work just fine. For Home power,  water sonoluminescence is extreme power!.
Title: Thanks Power To Be!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 07:40:29 PM
Thanks Power To Be for your quick response back to us.  We really appreciate you hanging in there with us.  Thanks Very Much!!


Slovenia,
The DC fan was a quick approcah to moving fog for water injection, not practical due to auto operating conditions but gives a demo of how to move fog out. Ionic air or electric wind is much more feasible. HHO will freely flow out of the chamber but you still need to move atomize fog to help in cooling of ICE.

For circuit, you dont need anything fancy, the Nebulizer circuit will work and you can put one together with readily available parts.
In Sonochemistry, the higher the frequency, the higher the effeciency lowering wattage. This is easily done by increasing voltage alone. 

Acoustic dissociation of water wil cease at higher frequency above few mhz. If you employ electric wind or ion influence, other effects occurs too.
Brass is a great material, optimal effeciency can be utilized at a later stage to fine tune performance and scale down the device into a smaller size.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 19, 2011, 09:42:22 PM
a good read on water sonoluminescence.
http://gutengroup.mcb.arizona.edu/Publications/Gutenkunst2002.pdf

ultrasonic waves can be concentrated wth horns etc, and reciever such as tuning fork amplifies effect. ion influence accelerates implosion effect.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Sprocket on March 19, 2011, 10:07:23 PM
Can anyone here yet confirm that Zn0 actually amplifies the production of HHO?  I've got a humidifier that's just begging to be dismantled but would have to order Zn0, so it would be nice if someone could confirm its efficacy or lack thereof...
Title: Running Cell
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 10:13:41 PM
I think a couple guys jumped the gun and tried a makeshift application without having all their ducks lined up yet, so it wasn't a representative test.  Now that they have some updated information on actual configuration of cell and most components, I feel we'll all be able to make a much more scientific stab at this experiment soon.  I think Romo is about to get something rolling.  His crystals appear to already be of the caliber they should be and he's chomping at the bit to test out a cell with them. 

My gut tells me that this experiment is worth while.  I've put a lot of hours into it so far, so you can believe I'm really into it.

Can anyone here yet confirm that Zn0 actually amplifies the production of HHO?  I've got a humidifier that's just begging to be dismantled but would have to order Zn0, so it would be nice if someone could confirm its efficacy or lack thereof...
Title: Re: Acoustic Horn & Receiver
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 10:49:34 PM
Hi Power To Be,

I missed this response.  Thanks for sharing your information with me.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


There are many fascinating things you can do with Brass in acoustic cavitation!. The sky is not the limit, water has many many phases. For the water fuel project, simple atomizing ultrasonic chamber  will work just fine. For Home power,  water sonoluminescence is extreme power!.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Sprocket on March 19, 2011, 10:49:52 PM
Thanks for the info.  I think I'll hold-off doing anything till someone reports a favourable Zn0 effect.
Title: Sonoluminescence
Post by: Slovenia on March 19, 2011, 11:26:23 PM
Wow Power To Be,

That sonoluminesence for home power sounds like what I want.  I never heard of that before.  Thanks for sharing about it.  If you would share a little more about it I'd sure appreciate it.  Thanks!!

I'd like to get totally off-grid.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


There are many fascinating things you can do with Brass in acoustic cavitation!. The sky is not the limit, water has many many phases. For the water fuel project, simple atomizing ultrasonic chamber  will work just fine. For Home power,  water sonoluminescence is extreme power!.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 19, 2011, 11:28:57 PM
Powers to be,
Quote:
Water sonoluminescence is extreme power!.
---------------------------
SSSOoooooo......
your saying we can do this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc

Now that would be very nice!!

Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 19, 2011, 11:42:38 PM
Can anyone here yet confirm that Zn0 actually amplifies the production of HHO?  I've got a humidifier that's just begging to be dismantled but would have to order Zn0, so it would be nice if someone could confirm its efficacy or lack thereof...

Yes, It produces HHo.  How much of it, will be determied by determined by our fuel chamber's geometries -- or by the process of "influencing" as listed above.

As for the test I used for that -- I literally dried out my first batch of crystals (they stuck on the inside of the masonry jar) -- and pointed the ultrasonic pond fogger at them, poured water in the 1/2 gal jar --- and I got little bubbles -- kind of like you might see a soda pop bubble up.

This was all the testing I needed before I began making lots of batches of crystals, and researching how to stick the crystals to the inside walls of your atomizing chamber.

As for adhering the crystals:
I have decided to go try an experiment with electrolosis -- if not, I can adhere the zinc by letting it dry out of the substance.  Epoxy, I feel would be a more last-resort way, because of the spring "cushion" feeling of dried epoxy (at least when I've done it).  I think the epoxy could be a minor wave-dampener. If any of these experiments dont turn out well, I will be using epoxy -- but there are equally simple ways to get the crystals to stick to another surface.

Goodness knows I haven't even looked into potential ceramic configurations. 
If you are creative about it, there are no shortages of answers.

I will be likely using folded up aluminum foil, made rough from sandpaper -- stacked side by side, glued/fastened to the underside of a dead CD.  I hope the sheer quantity of surface area, if put directly above the transducer (while in the water) will allow the vibrations to hit enough of the crystals -- quantity is the goal here) (to make them produce enough HHO to make the mixture combustable)

I suspect this will stifle one pond fogger, and not allow as much mist to be produced -- if any -- so I will have a secondary fogger running to produce the mist.  12 V fan could potentially run it into the intake manifold.

This is one "prototype" I had In mind.

Another will be mentioned shortly.

More recently:
I have been diverging my efforts into researching how to get the water to be dis-associated with the ion-wind/air pump.  I feel that if I can get that part of the process to be "good" -- we might not even need the crystals.

It took a little bit of thinking about what powerme meant -- but a TT might = a Tesla Transformer.
If anyone doesn't know -- Tesla coils & tesla transformers can be extremely simple to build if you know how to.

I have been reading for the past few days on all these tangents -- There is a very vast depth to this condensed information powerme is chucking at us.

This leads me to the second prototype (which may be able to bypass using crystals)

The pond fogger, pumps out finely atomized water -- producing HHO, as well as pumping the mixture into the intake manifold.

If too much HHO is made by the ionizer, you could bubble it through a secondary pond fogging-chamber, to "dillute" the HHO gas with more water.  A secondary fogger would produce additional mist, an additional 12V fan to pump mixture into intake manifold.

Making the correct ammount of HHO, would be a matter of tuning the tesla tranformer, to adjust the ionizer voltage, and frequency.  Like I said though, a little more research is needed to understand it (Tesla Transformers, How to build them, how to tune them, Spark gaps, (potentially) Home made Caps / Gaps & coils -- the whole thing, to build yourself) -- but I hope this gives you an idea of the potential secondary "function-able" prototype.

Either way -- I think it could work.  Making the crystals, seeing them produce HHO, have all passed my 'proof of concept' trials to great satisfaction.  I'm getting ready to test a few full setups over the next week.    My buddy who is helping me test, comes back tonight, so we'll be on the ball experimenting this next week.

====================
Powerme, thanks for the heads up about the Dew.  I had been thinking of a way to extract ORME's from the air and seawater (I can see them, darned it -- the little white dust dots constantly moving against the background blue sky)

I have a simple setup in mind which should collect quite a bit of dew.
=====================
Will write more in a bit,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 20, 2011, 12:00:29 AM
Yes, It produces HHo.  How much of it, will be determied by determined by our fuel chamber's geometries -- or by the process of "influencing" as listed above.

As for the test I used for that -- I literally dried out my first batch of crystals (they stuck on the inside of the masonry jar) -- and pointed the ultrasonic pond fogger at them, poured water in the 1/2 gal jar --- and I got little bubbles -- kind of like you might see a soda pop bubble up.

I don't mean to be pessimistic, i think the bubbles being HHO may be a good assumtion BUT  -
How did you confirm the bubbles you made where HHO?
Could those bubbles have been just normal cavitation bubbles? Something other than HHO?

It at least proves that bubbles are made by this interaction.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 20, 2011, 12:18:32 AM
I don't mean to be pessimistic, i think the bubbles being HHO may be a good assumtion BUT  -
How did you confirm the bubbles you made where HHO?
Could those bubbles have been just normal cavitation bubbles? Something other than HHO?

It at least proves that bubbles are made by this interaction.

I saw quite plainly with my eyes, where the bubbles were comming from.  It was near the crystal flake formations on the side of the jar, and near a "slush" zinc deposit on another side.  If you would like to conduct your own tests to see if the crystals produce a satisfactory result, you are welcome to observe.  The escaping gas mixture was enough to produce a flickering in a butate lighter held above the masonry jar.

I think using a different Zno substrate may be useful in obtaining more HHO bubbles. (Substrate =  zamak), Or, by adding magneisum chloride to the crystal 'mix' as it is cooking should add magnesium to the crystals.

I have said that the results I have as to yet obtained, have been satisfactory.  I beleive this project can work.  If I beleive that -- What was it that I was looking for?
In considering powerme's tangents in this way, it has been most helpful to me to getting more answers out of his statements, or hints.

==Romo
Title: Simple internet searching
Post by: petar113507 on March 20, 2011, 12:38:15 AM
This may help you come to your own conclusions about similar problems on this project.  :)

Just do a google search:
http://www.google.com/search?q=electroplating+zinc+oxide&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=614&prmd=ivns&ei=24CETem7GJP4swOb9dCAAg&start=20&sa=N

Pick off what looks interesting.
Between all these pages, you should get an idea what electroplating is, and how to do it yourself.  This what I had in mind.  This might seem painfully obvious to do, but this is the basic kind of searching we need to become accustomed to doing in order to understand all the information that's here (even in old books!)

Read the search results, and look at what is useful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plating
on the wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrogalvanization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherardising

http://www.electro-coatings.com/electroplated-zinc-corrosion-resistance.php
http://nanomatetech.com/Download/Eco-friendly-coating-FastenerInt%27l-2009-10.pdf
http://deltaspecialtycoatings.com/Zinc.html
http://www.btr-plating.com/electroplating_page.htm
http://www.epi.com/pages/zinc-plating

effectively, between all these pages, I figured out there were basically two things you could be doing (along the tangent of electroplating)  These are two experiments I will be conducting during the day.

One process is effectively heating up the zinc crystals (or as it's cooling down from cooking), and letting them dry on a sheet of rough metal, or roughened plastic.  I figure, too much vibration can shake this off.  This has been since true with the substrates I have dried on the masonry jar to date.

My thoughts:
The roughened surface (looked kinda like fogged glass) allowed more crystals to stick in little nooks and crannies -- so there is a small ammount that sticks to the sides.  In the very least, this is the simplest method which will allow me to test the high surface area, alumium sheet.  Not a permanent solution.

The second process is the subject of this search: electro plating

As far as I could glean about electroplating, you basically run a currrent through the water with a finely suspended solution which has some charge to it (in our case zinc oxide) -- and it makes whatever stuff you've submersed/suspended in the water -- get little bits of that stuck on the outside of the metal.

So, I was thinking again -- either aluminum ( cause it's easy to get, from aluminum foil), or some metal sheets from the hardware store. 

Instead of letting the crystals completely dry out after I cook them (I usually recycle the ammonium.  When I would usually recycle it -- when I am "filtering" out the crystals -- I could just dunk them into a masonry jar with water).  Let the remaining ammonium evaporate, leaving a water crystal solution.

I could Then use the crystal-water solution for electroplating it onto sheet metals.

These this might seem a little vauge, or condensed -- if you read the information on the above pages, and then read these thoughts -- it will make much more sense.  I am trying to move in a more practical-application direction.

Either of these two methods are by no means complete, but this should let us get far enough to do some prelimenary tests.  The more people we have doing tests, the better.  :)

Back to work -- will report results this next week,
==Romo
Title: Re: Transducer update
Post by: e2matrix on March 20, 2011, 12:47:28 AM
<snip <
My next questions: Do we know if we are trying to hit 43 KHZ exactly, or just above the 43 KHZ range?
Next, why are we looking for the dis-association frequencey?  How do the crystals just "help" the dis-association (does it work better at certain frequencies, or is it just the electrical oscilation of the crystal that rips water molecules apart?)

Is it not the electric force that we are breaking, through the pizeoelectric oscilations at a set frequency?  Or does this somehow infer that through sound that we can manipulate the electric nature of matter?  I would imagine "constructive intereference" to be coupling together, amplifying itself at at certain resonant frequencies to produce electric effects? 
If this is the case, this would sound like a base, in the work that keeley was associated with.

These questions are posed to everyone -- they are questions which I would normally ask myself.  In this case, I have not yet found the answers to them, so instead of reporting back with the answer, I am merely asking the question.

I hope it sparks someone else to discuss,
==Romo
I think you probably have caught this by now since Power to be posted it again later here but he said earlier that it should be above 43 Khz and I believe he said he used 45 Khz. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 20, 2011, 05:46:23 AM
I'm having trouble keeping enough pressure to raise the boiling point of the ammonia to 60C...I think I ruined the first batch but will keep trying...
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 20, 2011, 10:37:34 AM
Powers to be,
Quote:
Water sonoluminescence is extreme power!.
---------------------------
SSSOoooooo......
your saying we can do this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc

Now that would be very nice!!

Chet
Is that an advise of negligence or your potential application?.

Cavitational sonoluminescence  bursts is produced with negative ion influence, I prefer the nucleation effect of positive influence.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 20, 2011, 11:58:30 AM
Guys,
Have you made time to stop and observe Nature?.
Have you ever wondered why very simple things are made so complicated by Man, his logic is replaced with artificial intelligence that holds no relation to reality. His values are based on artificial commodities that he tirelessly labors for yet they hold absolutely  no value. He lives to consume and create artificial obstruction that Nature will only equalize with decay, Why can't Man see the equilibrium that Nature has always put in place.

Please learn to understand the Forces of Nature, so much power is available right in front of you, All of my Research has all lead to Dead Ends. Simple things that are tuned to the Force of Nature yielding in large enormous amounts of power that holds no purpose in Today's artificial reality, the Internet is just another extension of our false reality.

My findings will only add burdens to our current demise as Today's Man will only seek the worse of things. At least the water fuel is non destructive and may help relieve the economic hardship that is placed upon you.

Good luck and have a nice day.
Title: Thanks!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 20, 2011, 12:22:53 PM
Thanks for giving us some more details on the Cavitational sonoluminescence!!

Is that an advise of negligence or your potential application?.

Cavitational sonoluminescence  bursts is produced with negative ion influence, I prefer the nucleation effect of positive influence.
Title: Participation Requested!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 20, 2011, 12:29:25 PM
Hi Guys,

Some of you folks who are not actively participating on this thread are very sharp and might be a real big help to the rest of us.  We have some good minds working on what Power To Be has shared but we could use a lot more help here.  There is just so much information to study and go through it's not right that a few carry the many.  Some of you silent types are very gifted smart persons and gleaning freely when you should be helping.  We might miss some of the nice little gifts The Power has hinted to somewhere in the information he has shared.  If you are really interested in seeing this project through to a positive end, please help us.  I'm just an average mind and I'm giving as much as I can.  Please Help!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Thanks Power To Be!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 20, 2011, 12:32:58 PM
Thanks for sharing with us Power To Be!!  I look forward to seeing what you post here every day.  When you do post here, it is the highlight of my day.  Thanks!!
Title: Re: Thanks Power To Be!!
Post by: The Power To Be on March 20, 2011, 12:47:12 PM
Thanks for sharing with us Power To Be!!  I look forward to seeing what you post here every day.  When you do post here, it is the highlight of my day.  Thanks!!
Slovenia,
Thank you for your interest but really, these are old findings of others that I just have happened to stumbled upon. I am your equal, no more and no less.

I told someone last week of the water fog injection at the local discount store, he bought a
Vicks Ultrasonic Humidifier - $40
Small inverter -$30
Set of E3 plugs - $30

I saw him today at the Store and he happily reported gains of above 30% mpg for his mileage during this past week. He said it will be better as he's at 10% oil life and doing an oil change. Simple off the shelf items that will help with lower your fuel expenses. He only duct taped a piece of water hose to the humidifier vent and inserted it into the air intake.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 20, 2011, 01:07:51 PM
I'm having trouble keeping enough pressure to raise the boiling point of the ammonia to 60C...I think I ruined the first batch but will keep trying...

save it, and test it with a simple water test.

I have found with my crystals, if I saved the entire batch, I got a "feel" for what I was making -- in regards to HHO production.  I think that This is part of a process of learning the full effects in a system -- the effects of growing the crystals with temperature, pressure differences -- it is all a matter of simply being observant.

If you save the old batches and remember under what conditions they were grown -- it is at least possible to troubleshoot and understand under which conditions that the best/worst crystals were grown under.

I am looking for the answers that, even if the internet were to be brought down tomorrow -- I would still have a fighting chance at observing 'what is happening' on a very small level.  Do as many tests as you can please -- I am waiting for someone else to have results against which I can compare my own findings.

PS. Those ORME dew's have the "peacock" oily signature in them against light.  I feel that this may be better ingested at once, instead of leeched through plant life into consumable vitamin form. 

What would you suggest, to me (or anyone following in your/my footsteps) to undergo the transition?  It is my current aim in life, to live this life out, and fulfill what purposes I can to assist in.  How may I further find answers, if not by soley the method in which I have described? 

Powerme, you seem to be riddled with many ways to understand, I am merely seeking as many avenues as I can to further my progress here.  I want the transition -- I can see my own understandings as to how I can further myself, but I wish to know -- how did you undergo this transition?

If need be, PM or Email is available -- If at all possible, can you make any more information known to others? It is a wish of mine -- I ask, can you help me, or point me in a furthering direction?

Best wishes and many thanks thus far,
==Romo
(Edit: Spelling)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 20, 2011, 01:15:22 PM
Hey Romo,
Yes, the Lunar Oil is highly precious, do not let it go to waste. If it is all natural, you do not need to cleanse with plant transmutation.

Do you have visitations from the higher entities?.

Be as Novel as you can be, your time here on the earth duration is just like the blink of an eye.

Good day.
Title: Re: Thanks Power To Be!!
Post by: petar113507 on March 20, 2011, 01:23:11 PM
Slovenia,
Thank you for your interest but really, these are old findings of others that I just have happened to stumbled upon. I am your equal, no more and no less.

I told someone last week of the water fog injection at the local discount store, he bought a
Vicks Ultrasonic Humidifier - $40
Small inverter -$30
Set of E3 plugs - $30

I saw him today at the Store and he happily reported gains of above 30% mpg for his mileage during this past week. He said it will be better as he's at 10% oil life and doing an oil change. Simple off the shelf items that will help with lower your fuel expenses. He only duct taped a piece of water hose to the humidifier vent and inserted it into the air intake.

I am also thrilled at your friend's gain.

I hope to be reporting similar gains in approx. 1 week's time.  May I ask, however -- how you happened to stumble upon your many tangents, or where I might be able to further investigate some of your findings?  I understand "old books", and am downloading many files of these "older publications" to potentially have a reserve of information in which to investigate -- But I am seeking more information, more experiences & observations (From other people) in which to cross reference (against my own experience) -- that I might be able to clairify the findings in more general, understand-able terms to others.

I am not concerned anymore whether these things contradict modern science, as I seem to have observed some results that defy my explaination -- But simply wish to know more.

(Here is where I issued an apology later -- I was NOT doing something I thought it was.  It was just an embarassing misunderstanding on my part )


One of such, is putting water into a certain geometry [circle] (tuned according to the wavelength) -- so as to make a standing wave at 45-50 KHZ in the middle of the caviation chamber -- So as to compensate for the bubble to be formed at the standing wave in the center of the resonant chamber.

This was done in a basketball-shaped figure from the CVS pharmacy.  I used the ball to form a cast of plastic, and tuned the frequencey accordingly.  This is very similar to keeley's findings -- just do your research on him.  Powerme has been gracious enough to leave some tangents to lead you in the right direction -- this is at least what lead me to "brush up" with this material again, to further understand it.

Anyhow -- These were the general guidelines by which I abided, and have seen water shower all about the room in an abrubt "bang" -- with enough force to shatter my backyard fence. (and a portion of my neighbors fence as well!)

Powerme, I wish to further my avenues in which you have described, as understanding nature.  Also, understanding the ways in which nature seems to store information in frequencies/waves -- would be vastly helpful.  I understand disclosure according to to normal safety standards -- but I am quite sure I am willing to experiment with the "risky" and "unstable" procedures.  Would you like pictures of the shattered fence as proof? 

I am a student here.
I am willing to learn.
Can you help me?

Anything you can offer, will hopefully insightful to me -- and further, I can hope to clairify, and also point others in a similar direction of interest, in order to understand.

Thank you for your answers,
==Romo
Title: Re: Thanks Power To Be!!
Post by: The Power To Be on March 20, 2011, 01:38:55 PM

Powerme, I wish to further my avenues in which you have described, as understanding nature.  Also, understanding the ways in which nature seems to store information in frequencies/waves -- would be vastly helpful.  I understand disclosure according to to normal safety standards -- but I am quite sure I am willing to experiment with the "risky" and "unstable" procedures.  Would you like pictures of the shattered fence as proof? 

I am a student here.
I am willing to learn.
Can you help me?

Anything you can offer, will hopefully insightful to me -- and further, I can hope to clairify, and also point others in a similar direction of interest, in order to understand.

Thank you for your answers,
==Romo
I am trying to help you as much as I can, You still DO NOT know WHO YOU ARE!!!!!

You are not the student.
I have nothing to teach.

Only you, yourself can help, You hold your own key. Think of a destructive caterpillar, it will only morph when it is mature, please grow up.

You will get visitation when you are ready, they will show you the way. It is only self taught, there is nothing more that I can do. Work on your Virtues.

You are trying too hard, take it easy, enjoy life please.

Have a good day.
Title: Great Job Romo
Post by: Slovenia on March 20, 2011, 01:51:42 PM
Thanks for working on the Power1 tangents and sharing.

Power1 has given us a lot of subtle hints that I think are a really big deal if only we'll evaluate them and try to understand where he is trying to lead us and go there.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 20, 2011, 02:06:28 PM
Hey Romo,
Just a heed, since we are both Male, you probably will first encounter the lovely Isis, no prank or joke here. It is not part of the transition, I still do not know why she came first?.
I tried and moved on as quickly as I could but it was a long while, nothing bad just too much excitement for me.

@All,
Sorry if this is way off topic, your higher self comes with a whole new world. Higher octaves as Walter Russell had called it. Do not attempt to cheat your way there by any means, please it is not worth the TROUBLE!
Title: Dreams
Post by: Slovenia on March 20, 2011, 02:11:19 PM
I've been trying to contact my higher self with methods shared by Petar/Romo and have had some interesting results.  I am dreaming like crazy now.  During the dream, everything is really clear and interactive.  Mostly the dreams have been about this Power To Be water for fuel system.  During the dream it's like I am being told what to do and how to do it but there is a problem.  When I wake up, I can't remember any parts of the dream other than it had something to do with learning about this Power1 project.  So, what do I need to do so that I can remember the dreams?  Thanks in advance.

This is related to this project in that I plan on using it to reach a successful end with this project.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 20, 2011, 02:19:00 PM
I'm having trouble keeping enough pressure to raise the boiling point of the ammonia to 60C...I think I ruined the first batch but will keep trying...
I had a similar problem with my first batch also.

I found that that heating a pot of water (like in one of Romo's picture) to transfer the heat worked much better than just the jar placed on on the heater stirrer. Heating that pot of water to 67C made the jar contents 60C and was much easier to maintain. I also had a fan pointed at it the hole time from about 2 feet away. i believe the fan helped to condensate vapors by keeping the exposed part of the jar cooler.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 20, 2011, 06:03:31 PM
In regards to what everyone was fussing about before with the oscilator circut -- powerme has given us a circut to research for the fogger oscilator.  From that circut -- into a tesla transformer and adjust the stepped up-voltage & frequency (might as well look it up, and become familiar with it too, to use it in different components).

If you can figure these things out -- then you can buy just the pizeo ceramic's -- and hook it up to the transformer.  ;)
Much more efficiency, price-wise.  In the extra 20-25 dollars I would otherwise spend on Shipping, I can snag quite a few more pizeo's -- or just buy a bit of wire for winding the transformer.

A friend of mine basically threw one together, and it sort of works.  It's not real pretty -- so I'm looking at how the thing works, and looking into calculating the needs of transformer/specs.  I don't have a real accurate way to measure it, so I'm gonna need to buy some proper equipment

So far -- if anyone wants to also look into it: I read the condensed intro to Tesla Transformers by Eric Dollard -- it's a good start.  Lots of websites helping you build a tesla coil.  I found some blogs to help me for some of the equations to calculate the size of the cap. bank, as well as the length/spark gap size.

Just thought I'd give an update on the "frequency" problem we had before.  These transformers seem to have the potential to simplify a little bit in the long run.

Cheers,
==Romo

As a note:  I'm getting help from an electrical engineer on the Tesla Transformer/Tesla Coils.   I'm even getting friends to chip in a little bit of time too -- I'm not alone on getting my information here.  I don't quite fully understand what I am doing -- I'm still reading up on bits of information I didn't know about electronics.  :(
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 20, 2011, 06:28:55 PM
I had a similar problem with my first batch also.

I found that that heating a pot of water (like in one of Romo's picture) to transfer the heat worked much better than just the jar placed on on the heater stirrer. Heating that pot of water to 67C made the jar contents 60C and was much easier to maintain. I also had a fan pointed at it the hole time from about 2 feet away. i believe the fan helped to condensate vapors by keeping the exposed part of the jar cooler.

Nice work.   ;D

I also find that between 65-70 keeps the solution at the "right" temp. 
I just keep it around that temperature, and it works great.

Have you noticed any differences is cooking the crystals and constantly agitating the ammonium? (Shaking with vigor for higher pressure)  I think that I get slightly more crystals when I cook them at a higher pressure, but I'm not sure.  My reason for agitating the crystals periodically (every 10 mins to so during the "grow" phase), was that I had an ice cube on the lid of the jar.  If I did not shake it hard enough -- the top part of the jar would get too cold, and the pressure would not be high enough to pressure cook them. ;)

Remember though, cook it too hot, and you kill the batch of crystals.  In my experience the temperature is the easiest thing to botch up.  I would suspect there is also an upper limit on pressure -- but I'm pretty sure the jar would bust, before the pressure gets too high for those crystals.

I am currently working on adding less ammonium to the crystal paste -- as I currently feel that with the concentrated ammonium, I should be able to create more zinc "slurry" paste and less liquid sloshing about.  Just a thought.   ;)

I have also found that adding the crystals, after making the ammonium 60 Degrees C, opening the lid, and tossing them in -- and THEN sealing it shut -- doesn't really hurt the overall batch, even if you loose some ammonium.  I wear goggles and a scarf so it doesn't get my face. 

I compensate for the evaporated stuffs by adding about 320 ML's -- I eyeball it around 300 ish (no more than 350 though -- I have had pressure "hiss" leaks if I put in too much, even in the 1/2 gal. jar.)  Remember though -- I am weaning this down. 

I have gotten down to 200 ML of higher concentration ammonium with, as of yet no detriment.  I would suspect a reduction up to 150, or 100 ML would be possible, but this ammount is yet untested.

Finally, if you recycle your ammonium -- freeze-distill it a second time before you use it again.  For me, this helped make it equally as concentrated as the "new" stuff (the non-recycled stuff).  I don't know if this happened to you yet -- but if you don't check by throwing it in the freezer, you could wind up with a "dud" batch, like me...

These are just some ideas that would've been useful if I had known before.  If not -- you'll learn real fast with your "oopsies"

Hope this helps you guys not make too many "oopsies",
==Romo
Title: I'm sorry. :(
Post by: petar113507 on March 20, 2011, 10:33:16 PM
I would like to extend an apology out, as I did not intend to be misleading.   :-[

I should listen more carefully, so that I do not relay any false information.

It was not an HHO explosion -- it was from a propane tank.  Allow me to explain the accident.

Me and a friend were trying to replicate the explosive phase of water to see if it were at all applicable to this engine project.  We had a plastic ball-thingy from cvs -- we put a pvc tube out of it, and filled it with water to see if we could make any standing wave nodes inside the ball -- I was hoping for.

We were "tuning" it by moving the fogger's distance up and down the PVC pipe.  Sometimes the ball shook funny, but it was nothing major.  I did not tune the pond fogger's running frequencey.

I went inside to use the restroom, and while I was there, we left the pond fogger running sitting still.  Upon closer examination, Instead of exploding -- the darned thing just was made poorly.  It fell apart.  >:(

There was also, an unrelated accident with propane tanks nearby -- which blew apart the fence.  Me and my friend were thankfully, unscathed inside the apartment.

I was dumb enough to jump to conclusions of this last night.  We investigated the outside explosion, but found little more than our poorly constructed fence, battered.  :P

Neither of us knew about the propane until this morning, we just knew something blew up out back, and thought it was our device.  It turns out, some of our neighbors were seriously injured, and none of this accident was me "Stumbling upon the explosive phase of water."  It was something with their gas tanks.  :(

Almost immedeately thereafter, I pulled out my "dew trap", and posted a bit on these forums.  I was even ignorant enough to not notice the paramedics outside.  It was late, and they didn't make much noize.... Even so.

Thankfully, that accident wasn't my fault.

Again though, Jumping to conclusions was my bad. 

I shouldn't have thought that unlocking that "phase" of water, would have been that easy.   ::)

I am sorry for having given the appearance of done something incredible, when I had not.

Eesh. 
Now, after such a long night, I'm gonna retire. 
G'day all,
==Romo
Title: Electric Wind (FYI)
Post by: Slovenia on March 21, 2011, 11:17:25 AM
Hi Guys,

I've been studying all the notes Power1 left us so far and ran into this gem from March 9, 2011.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spark Gap

March 9, 2011
Power1

great intelligence Romo,
use spark gap with magnet quenching to produce electric wind, this moves gaseous at the same time solidifying bonding force thus liberating HHO by ionization.

Same principle used by Tesla in his Electric flying machine. Electric wind has many peculiar properties too!.
Title: Altrez Post from Energetic (March 21, 2011)
Post by: Slovenia on March 21, 2011, 11:23:23 AM
I have stumbled upon something with my new ultrasonic setup that I must share.. Please read:

Nuclear fusion by inertial confinement: a comprehensive treatise AND

http://www.wbabin.net/physics/fitzgerald7.pdf

It would seem that a properly configured ultrasonic setup can do a lot more then just simple Water Mist and exciting Crystals. The neat thing is that one reactor can do a broad range of functions that's accomplished by adding a Potentiometer to handle sweep.

Fun thing for you guys with a scope to try, is attaching a Microphone to the side of the reaction chamber you have built. Then put a scope on it. You can adjust the water resonance inside very accurately.

Try it out. It works!

-Altrez
Title: Pierce Oscillator Circuit (March 18 Power To Be Post)
Post by: Slovenia on March 21, 2011, 12:51:24 PM
Pierce Oscillator Circuit

March 18, 2011
Power1
You're making it harder than it is!!
Guys, you are making this harder than it is.
Pierce Oscillator Circuit
I had asked that you look at the Pierce oscillator circuit, the transducer is
driven only by crystal transistor with capacitor. Oscillation can be altered
by voltage, crystal angles or temperature. Wave frequency in the water needs
to be 43khz +. If you keep increasing frequency, you will end up with
abundant HHO from piezo only.
The Zno crystals amplifies the effect. What bonds H2+0, it has a property
that you are controlling here. You need to adhere ZnO to a permanent
structure. What crystal geometry best amplifies wave frequency? They are
the same ones used in electronics.
Nebulizer circuit, same as humidifier.
http://www.tdk.co.jp/tefe02/ef441_nb.pdf
Look at the Sol-tec video. There's a comment on a patent application there
from Japan, research it. There are many ways to dissociate water into HHO
with little energy expense.
You do not have much time!! TIME is a luxury which you do not have.
Earth is Changing!
Title: Spark Gap Scenario
Post by: Slovenia on March 21, 2011, 06:31:43 PM
With regard to the spark gap scenario as it would relate to this project, I remember reading in the Aaron (spark plug 2) thread where Power To Be said the "Lux" spark plug was very simple and all that was really needed.  I don't remember Power's exact words but I think he meant what I have shared.  I need to see if I can find that post again.  He wasn't allowed to many posts on that thread, so it should be easy enough to find.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 21, 2011, 06:39:11 PM
Thank you for the link altrez.
D20 heavy water and other types of water have different qualities, I suggest that we concentrate on regular tap water first to give you the understanding needed before you go full nuclear or worse nucleate yourself with higher energy water elements.

Current nuclear is no match for water nuclear, it is more powerful, abundant in supply  very low cost and safe. All you need is readily available, ultrasonic humidifiers already has transducer and workable circuit. The equipment needed to build robust, maintenance free Home Power 10kw water sonofusion is readily available and it is very cheap.

Schauberger developed the  Heimkraftwerk for domestic electricity production. It was taken away and buried deep, yet no one understands the true principals of fluid dynamic and no one has ever been able to replicate his machine.
http://www.implosion-ev.de/html/heimkraftwerk.html

The only way for you to understand is by doing this experiment and observing. It is my hope that you will learn to understand and respect Nature and deploy these technologies for the benefit of mankind and NOT weaponize the forces of nature to accelerated our current demise.

"Energy producers around the planet are saying in effect, “We own the energy you want but you must pay our price we set.”; and, “Any price we set is reasonable according to private sector markets our friends control.

That is why I encourage all governments to stand firm and keep rights, patents, and copyrights on sonofusion in the public sector for as long as it takes for money mad crooks in the private sector to die off. Governments in the meantime can pay off their debts with fusion and put millions back to work." - Frank B. Fitzgerald
Title: Re: Thanks Power To Be!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 21, 2011, 08:51:23 PM
Hi Power To Be,

Maybe so, but few know how to apply it.  Also, few who know things are willing to share.  You are willing to share and have shared and that makes you very special.  What you have shared will be used by many who aren't that grateful but still you share and that is good.

I studied Schauberger for quite a while but was never able to connect any usable dots so that I could utilize any of his technology.  I would really be grateful if you would show us how to make 10 Kw with water.  I'm very excited about this.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Slovenia,
Thank you for your interest but really, these are old findings of others that I just have happened to stumbled upon. I am your equal, no more and no less.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 21, 2011, 09:09:35 PM
Hey Slovenia
Thank you for your continued support.

I am not very familiar with Schauberger but found some articles while I was researching acoustic cavitation. All we are working with is Waves, common electricity is a dense long wave. Sonofusion is no more than concentration of short very rapid waves.

A lot of people are stuck as they still rely on modern knowledge to proceed, you do not need fancy meters to measure frequency etc, the transducer is your converter of DC to waves, alter the caps, that's all you need to do. Use a baloon to collect HHO and do simple calculations with timing to determine frequency, or just observe the ICE combustion and adjust your gas accordingly.

What we have at our disposal is much more far advance then what Tesla and Schauberger had utilized, yet no one can replicate their result. It is not what that you Know or Have, it is simply using your common sense to see what you can make and Have.

Get the water fuel going and you will understsand the steps needed to transmute water into the next phase that yields sonofusion, it is simple wave and cavitation effects.

Have a good day.

Title: Brass Bowls & Brass Acoutical Horn
Post by: Slovenia on March 21, 2011, 09:39:15 PM
He need to find a good source for brass bowls for our receiver and brass acoustical horns for our piezo pond fogger to be mounted inside.  I've come to the conclusion that a simple brass bell of the proper size would probably work really well for the acoustical horn, while the brass bowl will need to be the normal configuration of a bowl.  There are many Indian imported brass bells and bowls.  We need to find a good source for our experiments. 

I'm looking for them right now.  If anyone knows a good source, please share the information.  Thanks!!

I have designed my chamber while I've been waiting for my ingredients.  So, I'm chomping at the bit to build this cell.

I'm going to make mine out of pvc.  I got to thinking that the tube should probably be a clear acrylic for our experiments, so that we can see what is going on inside the chamber and take pics to share with the other members of the group.  So, that is what I intend to do.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 22, 2011, 01:45:37 AM
Something that will help:

http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~AdvLab/11-Sonolum/sono1.pdf

Peace love and light my friends

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 22, 2011, 02:07:21 AM
Something that will help:

http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~AdvLab/11-Sonolum/sono1.pdf

Peace love and light my friends

-Altrez

Excellent find!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 22, 2011, 03:38:11 AM
Check out post #1 here.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2146-water-disrupting-spark-plug-keely.html

octavian posted this on 6-18-2008:
The following was from a post received on 12/20/97. The names have been removed for privacy.

"A friend of mine, suggested modifying an ultrasonic humidifier (replacing the frequency tuning resistor with a variable resistor) such that it could be adjusted to operate at the 42k frequency requisite for the separation of H2O into it's constituent parts (I haven't tried it). The power level of the humidifier may be inadaquate for the job, however."
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 22, 2011, 11:06:52 AM
Something to think about:
Tesla A/C - conversion of mechanical force to electrical oscillation.
Tesla Oscillation/ Tesla Transformer - variable frequency conversion to electrical oscillation.
Piezoelectricity Crystals - conversion of DC into electrical oscillation, also variable.
Cavitation in sound wave, light wave/ laser, ultrasonic waves etc. all have the same properties.
Oscillation is natural waves,  helices. Only difference is wavelengths.
What is the link here?
How does wave propergate in musical instruments, a drum or trumphet.

"My second discovery was of a physical truth of the greatest importance. As I have searched the entire scientific records in more than a half dozen languages for a long time without finding the least anticipation, I consider myself the original discoverer of this truth, which can be expressed by the statement: There is no energy in matter other than that received from the environment." — Nikola Tesla

------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes on Sonofusion:
Tesla had already shown us the way, I wish not to discuss this process any further at this time until full understanding of current project is achieved.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Title: Configuration of My Test Cell
Post by: Slovenia on March 22, 2011, 11:54:09 AM
Configuration of My Test Cell
http://i56.tinypic.com/256gzki.png
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Sprocket on March 22, 2011, 02:35:35 PM
I finally got around to dismantling my humidifier to experiment with.  It's rated at 30W max and out of the box, does a pretty good job at producing 'steam' at max setting from water. Taken apart, it is obvious that one of the biggest problems the transducer has is overcoming the waters own viscosity.  So does anyone know of a way of reducing the natural viscosity of water?

I also tried it with isoprophyl  alcohol and our old enemy gasoline.  Gasoline's reaction is really impressive - even on the lowest setting its like dropping water onto a hotplate, it's 'steam' almost immediately!  Makes me wonder why this direction for improving fuel consumption seems to be relatively unexplored, particularly since at least one patent exists that uses ultrasonics for this very purpose.

@Slovenia - where does the Zn0 fit in this design?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 22, 2011, 02:52:04 PM
"My second discovery was of a physical truth of the greatest importance. As I have searched the entire scientific records in more than a half dozen languages for a long time without finding the least anticipation, I consider myself the original discoverer of this truth, which can be expressed by the statement: There is no energy in matter other than that received from the environment." — Nikola Tesla

The intent of this post is not to derail or sidetrack anyone.  I found these links and it is turning the lights on for me.  In my opinion this defines the relationship of the zinc in this process and possibly why the power requirements might be less to split the water.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/03/pzec-20100316.html
Also related to this same article is the patent application:
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100012479
I found this interesting in the application:
[0010]More specifically, certain piezoelectric materials, including but not limited to α-quartz (SiO2), ZnO, or BaTiO3, among others, have unique piezoelectric properties where the piezoelectricity is an intrinsic property of the material, such that no physical/chemical doping (cations or anions), chemical additives (including transition metals) or any forms of implantation are needed to create these properties. In addition, one of the materials having these properties, i.e., quartz, is also one of the most abundant minerals on the Earth's surface (i.e. beach sands). As a result, by using quartz as a material in the process, the hydrogen production via direct-water-splitting can be achieved at a low cost, and, because quartz is a natural material that is environmental friendly, no pollution issues are created by the process.

Brad S
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Cherryman on March 22, 2011, 03:08:53 PM
@ B-rads and all

I noticed in the link provided above  that he did the experiment in a (glass) quartz tube.

Quote
Dr. X took periodic readings of his instrumentation and was assured that the standing wave was being maintained. Suddenly, with no warning whatever the water disappeared from the open quartz tube. He looked up thinking to see the water splashed on the ceiling when to his amazement a clean hole went right through the ceiling. The hole was the same size as the inside of the quartz tube.

Could it be possible the quartz tube accidently had an effect on the process?

Another question:

If you grind a larger crystal, does that result in smaller crystals? Or is the structure broken when you do that?

Example: grinding quartz sand to powder, would that powder still be small crystals?





Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 22, 2011, 04:31:38 PM
Something to think about:
Tesla A/C - conversion of mechanical force to electrical oscillation.
Tesla Oscillation/ Tesla Transformer - variable frequency conversion to electrical oscillation.
Piezoelectricity Crystals - conversion of DC into electrical oscillation, also variable.
Cavitation in sound wave, light wave/ laser, ultrasonic waves etc. all have the same properties.
Oscillation is natural waves,  helices. Only difference is wavelengths.
What is the link here?
How does wave propergate in musical instruments, a drum or trumphet.
The Power to be:
I most likely know less about this than anyperson on this forum.  From my reading into this subject, I think this is what is going on here.  By exciting the water at the correct frequency (weakening the hydrogen oxygen bond) and sending the zinc crystals into a frentic dance (bending and flexing) smashes the cavitation bubbles dissassociating the water.  By amplifying the the oscillations reduces the energy required the make the zinc crystals dance.  If this is true, I am truly amazed that you uncovered this method.  Kudos to all you do.
Brad S.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 22, 2011, 06:45:40 PM
----------------------------------------------------
RAD
I must say that I only use simple things from 19th century era, works just fine,  I had tuned my chamber with a balloon. If you are measuring water at 1.7mhz, then you should have lots of HHO already!.
----------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure how you measure the vibration frequency of the water with just a balloon, but I was able to do it with another piezo disc.  I have two slightly different piezo ultrasonic water foggers.  I measured one @ about 1.7 Mhz, and the other @ 2 Mhz.

I checked the gas mixture with an LEL gas monitor, but it did not register anything.   :(

This was without any ZnO crystals in the mix.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 22, 2011, 07:29:29 PM
You need more energy to move the transducer faster. If all we need is 43khz, then we should work to lower the frequency to that level. If we had a 2mhz signal and enough energy to drive the transducer enough to separate the water then maybe...hmm.
Title: Acoustical Horn for Transducer
Post by: Slovenia on March 22, 2011, 09:04:26 PM
I'm pretty sure I just found my acoustical horn.  Here is the link to the website selling it.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/%28S%28a5l1smrssxrhiu45rjkbua55%29%29/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=1&subId=11&styleId=32&partNum=FUNNEL-SB
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 22, 2011, 09:39:25 PM
You need more energy to move the transducer faster. If all we need is 43khz, then we should work to lower the frequency to that level. If we had a 2mhz signal and enough energy to drive the transducer enough to separate the water then maybe...hmm.

Plenty of power.  It melted a hole in the side of the rubbermaid container at the focal point when I had it on its side.  It produces plenty of fog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYO18DyR-Jc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK01ezJlLXA
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 23, 2011, 12:36:13 AM
@ B-rads and all

I noticed in the link provided above  that he did the experiment in a (glass) quartz tube.

Could it be possible the quartz tube accidently had an effect on the process?

Another question:
If you grind a larger crystal, does that result in smaller crystals? Or is the structure broken when you do that?
Example: grinding quartz sand to powder, would that powder still be small crystals?


No, quartz would not work for this specific process unless you had precalculated the size nescessary to make it "active" at a certain frequency -- I.E. near the resonant frequencey of the crystals.  If you were to break down the crystals (grind them up) you would need to have a very consistent "grind".

I think he gave us the process for making the zinc crystals -- because it is this process which produces crystals of the exact size and all (ballpark-ish) active around a certain frequency.  The range we're looking for is between 42-45 KHZ (as mentioned before).  This was already precalculated for us. 

Powerme alluded to the other ways to make crystals with similar properties, however, I have not yet personally been far enough along in this project to have the incentive to research alternatives to make the crystals. (as I would like to have a working prototype first)

Quartz, while pizeoelectric, would require more modification, or require more of an understanding of the zinc crystals we are working with, and the properties that we aim to acheive with them.

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 23, 2011, 01:24:07 AM
Plenty of power.  It melted a hole in the side of the rubbermaid container at the focal point when I had it on its side.  It produces plenty of fog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYO18DyR-Jc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK01ezJlLXA

Are you tuning your setup at all Rad-hho?  I have found that pointing two pizeo's plugged in (1.7 mhz) at each other, can create quite a focused point.  It makes one of my masonry jars slightly ring.

Also, I'm not sure how powerme could tell the frequencey with the baloon.  I think, however -- he may have just been looking for a "sweet spot" -- kind of like how you've gotta tune bedini's ssg's for optimal charging of batteries.  You have to play with the coils to get them to produce the optimum result.  That is at least, what stuck with me after reading that I will use.

Also, is anyone willing to buy pizeo's from china, or through resale (from me)?  I would not be doing this for my own convienence nor profit -- this would be to get all of us to have similarly functioning pizeoelectrics.  If I order tonight (after a phone call), it should arrive in about 3 weeks to a month.

Perhaps this collaboration effort will be more convincing, or stir more interest if I have the "tuning"/oscilator circut parts on hand as well.  If anyone is interested, throw me a PM so I can know how many bulk extra to buy.  :)

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 01:42:29 AM
Are you tuning your setup at all Rad-hho?  I have found that pointing two pizeo's plugged in (1.7 mhz) at each other, can create quite a focused point.  It makes one of my masonry jars slightly ring.

Also, I'm not sure how powerme could tell the frequencey with the baloon.  I think, however -- he may have just been looking for a "sweet spot" -- kind of like how you've gotta tune bedini's ssg's for optimal charging of batteries.  You have to play with the coils to get them to produce the optimum result.  That is at least, what stuck with me after reading that I will use.

Also, is anyone willing to buy pizeo's from china, or through resale (from me)?  I would not be doing this for my own convienence nor profit -- this would be to get all of us to have similarly functioning pizeoelectrics.  If I order tonight (after a phone call), it should arrive in about 3 weeks to a month.

Perhaps this collaboration effort will be more convincing, or stir more interest if I have the "tuning"/oscilator circut parts on hand as well.  If anyone is interested, throw me a PM so I can know how many bulk extra to buy.  :)

==Romo

No, I am not tuning here.  This is using all the standard equipment that came with the ultrasonic mister.  The 1.7 Mhz one I bought locally, the 2 Mhz one is one of three I ordered from China. Power me said I should have lots of hho @ 1.7 Mhz, so I thought I would verify the 1.7 Mhz and see if I had any hho. :-\
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on March 23, 2011, 03:41:00 AM
Hello all,
I wanted to run this replacement nebulizer board by you guys.  I received this from a friend he says its about $22 a piece and you need to order 4 minimum.  It looks to have a really nice controller on it that could be easily modified.  And 4 of them put out quite a bit.  Take a look.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 23, 2011, 04:13:04 AM
RAD,
sorry, these foggers are all built differently, lower frequency if need be. 100khz - 1.5mhz is the range used by Noritada for ultrasonic HHO production.

Don't believe everything that I say or anyone else, observe your own result, that's the only real truth.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 23, 2011, 04:44:38 AM
No, I am not tuning here.  This is using all the standard equipment that came with the ultrasonic mister.  The 1.7 Mhz one I bought locally, the 2 Mhz one is one of three I ordered from China. Power me said I should have lots of hho @ 1.7 Mhz, so I thought I would verify the 1.7 Mhz and see if I had any hho. :-\

1.7 MHZ does produce SOME HHO, but not as much as I would like.  To be quite honest, I am not sure if my fogger is runining at those speeds though.  Some gunk has gotten into it, and I think that might affect the performance -- Maybe the speeds, I don't know.  I only know that I'm not sure what speed mine is running at anymore. :P

I noticed that I only produce HHO (sometimes my crystals work, some batches they dont) when I make certain waves/structures in the masonry jars.  It is kind of difficult to describe, but I look at the way that the crystals settle on the bottom (I do not use a "seperating" envelope or adhesion yet).  What is weird about this, is that I note that the HHO comes from some "spots".

I try to imagine what keeley would try to do with waves -- It seems like he was very good at making the waves stack up in amplitude, until they all collapsed at various pressure nodes.  The water molecules at that pressure/wave node would be very high.

From the way I can interpert my findings, I think I might be also making high pressure nodes, where the waves all collapse on that small pressure zone.  I do not think that this is directly 43 KHZ, my pond fogger's speed is waaay too high for that too.  But around these (suposed) "nodes", I see the crystals swooshing around, and moving a lot.  I figure I'm making them shake real hard.  Not according to resonance, mind you -- but enough for some of the crystals to add an extra "doink" push, and send some of the agitated water molecules in the surrounding area, Into the next "phase change". 

(Superman, this sounds an awful lot like your idea -- so I'm thinking there must be something to it.  I did not want to be the first to share what I thought was going on, so as not to skew other perspectives, which have not first yet conducted experiments.)

(I'm guessing the "phase" is a gas.  I only know phases from music -- I am under the impression that in order to get the next "phase" through harmonics, you'd have to stack the amplitudes of the waveforms constructively)

Now, I do not know what kind of complex standing wave this forms, as it is easier to move my wrist, than to visually imagine what kind of distortions I am making in the water.  I see little bubbles emerging from the swooshed-about substrate, NEAR where I see some of the crystals moving around minimally.  Where they are moving around less, I imagine to be the different pressure zones than that of the vibrating pizeoelectric -- maybe deconstructive wave interference, potentially reducing it to something around that ballpark zone of 43 khz.

Now this is interesting, because I thought I could just brute force the crystals into producing HHO -- but the way that powerme uses the works "amplify HHO production" -- but I now think it is a trick of resonance to make the fuel-cell unit produce the most HHO.  Otherwise, it would not be "amplified" HHO production, as "amplified" presupposes that there was something being produced anyways, and made more of -- instead of brute forced.

Resonance to make the water molecules vibrate at that rate (around 43 KHZ -- would probably just need to tune the fogger to see what produces the most HHO in that ballpark. Then, even though there would be some water being dis-associated -- the crystals in the surrounding area, would give just a little extra "doink" and dis-associate much more water than would normally be possible. 

I think, I am occasionally seeing the crystals give the extra push, just around the deconstructive intereference slush zones.

Hence, my phone call with the electrical engineer in a moment, I wanna make that oscilator to be the most "tuneable circut" possible.  This is with the intent, that I might be able to tune the wave frequencies, to make more "fuzzy zones" (almost disassociated zones, but not quite) that the crystals could give a little further push to disassociate them.

Think about it carefully.  Why else would powerme put a bowl into his fuel chamber?  To focus the waves (vibrating around the 43khz range) into a small area.  Even if you could use those lead-acid sacks from the batteries, and even if they did "dampen" much of the waveform -- I would suspect, that it was in that focused zone (which would compensate for the dampening effects), there would be enough "fuzzy activity" to let the crystals agitate a little further.

I think powerme said he used those lead acid battery pouches for molar mass/timing calculations -- If I remember reading those posts correctly, that would have been with the baloon.  Fine tuning the frequency generator, or the position of the pizeo would have allowed him to see which frequencies were producing the most "fuzzy zones".

Brute force / surface area might work, but it seems that there was "good enough" result, even against the dampening factor of the sack/pouch/envelope -- through resonance, it seemed to be more than enough.  That, and my results seem to be leading me in the direction of experimenting more for resonance.

But, like I said -- I don't wanna skew anyone's newcomming viewpoint, I'd personally prefer enough experimenters on board so that we can see what others imagine is happening.

I use the word imagine here, because I do not really know what is going on that kind of molecular level -- I have not seen it with my two eyes, nor do I have that abillity (yet).  This is my best guess as to the kind of mental model I am working with here.

Please, I want to hear fresh viewpoints on this!   :)

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 23, 2011, 05:34:54 AM
Just a note, but in the Stanley Meyers system he runs around 43khz (i think anyway) maybe those tubes are just giant transducers. (Also note how the guys running the pickup truck 300 miles on HHO looks. Same deal) http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:_Hydrogen_Hog_by_Future_Energy_Concepts%2C_Inc.

Just food for thought...
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 23, 2011, 05:44:53 AM
Another thought about stacking amplitudes.

We are aiming for 43 KHZ, right?  Well, didn't keeley have other frequencies he liked to "stack" on too? 

The way I see it, you'd be pushing all those waves into one spot @ 43 KHZ.  When they all hit the same node at the same time, they induce the phase change.  So how would you get a higher phase change?  Higher frequencies would be stacked on within the same harmonic range.  This means Sonofusion would simply be the collapse onto one point (or a very small point), but with additional higher/faster frequency amplitudes -- that way when the phase change is complete, you would have a higher resulting change, from the higher energy inut. 

I say higher, and not more powerful/stronger (though they may be) -- because higher energy would need to be of a faster osculation than the primary frequency would be.

I am also under the impression that water, or any element for that matter -- would simply be different vibrating frequencies.  By stimulating them at ultrasonic frequencies, I think we might be hitting an "undertone" of what the actual vibrating frequency.  This would explain why the waves collapsing would induce the phase change.  I perceive this, because they are adding power or energy to a much higher harmonic (vibrating rate). (Which, would be much faster than I can currently compare anything to.) 

Question is -- what is it that is vibrating impossibly fast?  If you haven't read any books on Aether theory, it might be a good idea to become acquainted with it.

I'm chewing over some thoughts,
==Romo
Title: Good Thinking
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 11:56:14 AM
Good thinking Romo.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Cherryman on March 23, 2011, 12:14:08 PM
In nature at sea, colliding waves can create a superwave. Even heights are measured wich exceed the sum of the waves.

Giving this fact, it could be possible to use multiple transducers and aim those to have a collision point of the waves in  the water.

I hope I make sense.


Quote
Several researchers are convinced that these random encounters  occur  between  waves  are not the only factor. Hydrodynamic laboratories in the situation under various simulated conditions and that they came to the conclusion that giant waves in many more  ways  to take their toll  on demand than just a storm at sea. In Ottawa, for example,  conducted trials with waves that reverberated against a vertical quay wall and then collide head-on another, still rolling wave. "If the two waves are exactly in  phase  with  the  two  wave  crests  simultaneously  over  each other, partly reaches the  surface  reflection  at
the bottom an even greater height than the sum of both waves alone. Then there is a real monster wave, "said Etienne Mansard, one of the researchers of the Delft Hydraulics Laboratory site. A similar phenomenon, Mansard said, appears to occur when waves break as they approach an island and then bend back if they have reached the island. The waves to collide with each other, they can in the same way grow to monstrous proportions. And while most ships for just a storm shelter behind an island. "

Source: http://www.kennislink.nl/publicaties/de-schrik-der-zeven-zeeen (http://www.kennislink.nl/publicaties/de-schrik-der-zeven-zeeen)
Title: Question for Power To Be
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 12:32:24 PM
Hi Power To Be,

Do we need two pond foggers in our cell or is one okay?  For experimental purposes, I was trying to keep my cost down until I had a good proof of concept and then I was willing to go a lot further with expenses.  Thanks.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Mounting Acoustical Horn Query
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 12:38:32 PM
My pond fogger hasn't arrived yet, but I've been brainstorming about how to mount my brass acoustical horn in the setup.  From the other pond foggers I've seen here, it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to mount my horn directly onto the fogger.  The fogger is to big to fit inside my horn.  So, I will have to build a box around the fogger and attach my horn to an outlet from the box. 

Does anyone have any ideas. 

This is a very important aspect and I don't want to screw it up.
Title: My Pond Fogger for Comparison Purposes
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 12:49:14 PM
My pond fogger is made by China Piezo.  I don't have it yet, but I ordered it from Mainland Mart and here is a pic of it.  What are you all using.

http://i53.tinypic.com/solv6r.png
Title: Re: My Pond Fogger for Comparison Purposes
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 01:24:54 PM
My pond fogger is made by China Piezo.  I don't have it yet, but I ordered it from Mainland Mart and here is a pic of it.  What are you all using.

http://i53.tinypic.com/solv6r.png

This looks like the 1.7 Mhz one I have.  I purchased it locally, but I'm sure it was made in China.
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Thanks for getting back to me RAD-HHO.

This looks like the 1.7 Mhz one I have.  I purchased it locally, but I'm sure it was made in China.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 01:43:02 PM
Hello all,
I wanted to run this replacement nebulizer board by you guys.  I received this from a friend he says its about $22 a piece and you need to order 4 minimum.  It looks to have a really nice controller on it that could be easily modified.  And 4 of them put out quite a bit.  Take a look.

I like it!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 03:15:03 PM
Another thought about stacking amplitudes.

We are aiming for 43 KHZ, right?  Well, didn't keeley have other frequencies he liked to "stack" on too? 

The way I see it, you'd be pushing all those waves into one spot @ 43 KHZ.  When they all hit the same node at the same time, they induce the phase change.  So how would you get a higher phase change?  Higher frequencies would be stacked on within the same harmonic range.  This means Sonofusion would simply be the collapse onto one point (or a very small point), but with additional higher/faster frequency amplitudes -- that way when the phase change is complete, you would have a higher resulting change, from the higher energy inut. 

I say higher, and not more powerful/stronger (though they may be) -- because higher energy would need to be of a faster osculation than the primary frequency would be.

I am also under the impression that water, or any element for that matter -- would simply be different vibrating frequencies.  By stimulating them at ultrasonic frequencies, I think we might be hitting an "undertone" of what the actual vibrating frequency.  This would explain why the waves collapsing would induce the phase change.  I perceive this, because they are adding power or energy to a much higher harmonic (vibrating rate). (Which, would be much faster than I can currently compare anything to.) 

Question is -- what is it that is vibrating impossibly fast?  If you haven't read any books on Aether theory, it might be a good idea to become acquainted with it.

I'm chewing over some thoughts,
==Romo

I'm thinking along the same lines.  Before this project I was very interested in Michael John Nunnerley's thread on none electrolytic splitting of H2O.  The theory there is if you mix two frequencies that are 6X apart you get many harmonics and split the water.  Like Powerme said, the only difference between rf and usf is wavelength.  Maybe if we use two ultrasonic transducers tuned 6X apart......and those frequencies in tune with the size and shape of the chamber.....

Radio frequency hydrogen and oxygen generator and method
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7378063.html

Rick
Title: 36 volts
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 03:41:27 PM
I think that 36 volts is significant with regard to these foggers.  In one Power1's earlier posts, he touched on the 36 volts briefly and then I don't think he mentioned it again.

In the post he was talking about 24 volts and then said you needed to up the voltage to 36 volts.  He said this could be accomplished in two ways, (i.e.: adjustable transformer or winding your own coil to get the extra voltage). 

I just thought I'd add this again.  I need to go back and see if I can find his actual verbage.  He said on numerous posts that this was not hard to do and that we were making it to hard.  He also said to stay with the cheaper China piezo and that the cheapest foggers Mainland Mart had were adequate.

So, what do you think?

P.S.:  Those of you who are contributing here are doing a great job.  Comparing notes saves a lot of time and trouble.  That way nobody has to make the same mistakes twice if everyone reads what has been shared.
Title: Re: Question for Power To Be
Post by: petar113507 on March 23, 2011, 04:34:04 PM
Hi Power To Be,

Do we need two pond foggers in our cell or is one okay?  For experimental purposes, I was trying to keep my cost down until I had a good proof of concept and then I was willing to go a lot further with expenses.  Thanks.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Howdy slovenia. I am using also from mainland mart foggers, 2X Dk-27, and some other one that I found around here.  I will be switching over to just the ceramic transducer, and mount it to the chamber myself, and should be able to hook it directly with the oscilator circut to produce a desired, mildly "tunable" freqency.   (that honestly seems to be the most economical for multiple long-term prototypes)

Powerme did not suggest to use more than one fogger -- but in his fuel chamber drawing he did seem to have two foggers.

The reason I am switching over soley to the transducers -- Because the DK27's don't modify very easily.  You've gotta rip out the expoxy/rubber underside, and I still haven't figured out a clean way to accomplish that.
I figure, overdoing it will still get me a functioning prototype, whereas too little, I will be stuck waiting on shipping again. :(

Hope this helps,
==Romo
Title: Good To Hear From You
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 05:07:36 PM
Hi Romo,

Good to hear from you.  Yes, in his diagram, Power1 shows two piezos, and two receivers.  So, it makes one think that maybe two should be used.  I like what you are doing.  You are right, this project could get very expensive with the foggers by them selves not to mention the brass horns and bowls.  I like what you are doing very much.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Howdy slovenia. I am using also from mainland mart foggers, 2X Dk-27, and some other one that I found around here.  I will be switching over to just the ceramic transducer, and mount it to the chamber myself, and should be able to hook it directly with the oscilator circut to produce a desired, mildly "tunable" freqency.   (that honestly seems to be the most economical for multiple long-term prototypes)

Powerme did not suggest to use more than one fogger -- but in his fuel chamber drawing he did seem to have two foggers.

The reason I am switching over soley to the transducers -- Because the DK27's don't modify very easily.  You've gotta rip out the expoxy/rubber underside, and I still haven't figured out a clean way to accomplish that.
I figure, overdoing it will still get me a functioning prototype, whereas too little, I will be stuck waiting on shipping again. :(

Hope this helps,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 23, 2011, 06:58:21 PM
Slovenia,
Oscillating wave is the force that liberates elements from atomic bind. Your piezo transducer can only produce so much gas, push it too hard and the crystals will change phase themselves. This is very simple, crystals are already complete tuning circuits. You decide how much gas you want to produce and for what application.

I do not use modern electronics, there is not a need to, they are primitive and wasteful. Understand the force at play. Keeley's moto did not have pistons or valves, Tesla's transformer did not have endless circuits of miniature electrical valves, for what purpose other than confusing you!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Romo,
You do not seperate the nectar, it is a transmutation. Saturn eats his own children, Serpent swallowing it's own tail. The Devil ends and God is the next phase.

Follow up on Keeley where he describes the current modern science limited understanding of the fouth source of matter. Know his symphathetic vibration and  dynaspheric force. Elements changes phase and will continue to do so until they reach the source where they will begin all over again.

What is Matter and What is Force?. Keeley found the most occult of all secrets, the secret that they will fight to keep hidden from the mass.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

@All
You possess the power to do anything, your intelligence is much far superior to anything that you have ever seen, yet most will live and die in utter ignorance of being normal.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 23, 2011, 07:20:52 PM
There are many ways to controlling frequency. It depends on what you are using, I used 36 volts stepped up from 12v using  a simple toroid wound step up transformer, the same one they use in JT light. My frequency was controlled simply with a pot, rectifier, caps and a crystal transistor was only needed component.
Title: WOW Power To Be
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 08:30:08 PM
Another very interesting insightful post from you.  Thank you very much.

I know this intelligence you refer to exists, but I do not know how to tap into it.  Occasionally when I am day dreaming, it's like a door opens and I see something that makes real sense and then when I am trying to figure out what I just saw and understand it, my mind goes blank like something didn't want me to have that knowledge.  I am very frustrated.  I want this knowledge very badly but don't know how to access it.  The lucid dreaming is opening some doors but I can't yet apply it fully and I don't think it is the same thing you are talking about.  I wish someone would share how to tap this part of our being.  I can't understand how to do it and I really want it and am also really trying to receive and understand it.  I want it more than the energy aspect and I want that quite a lot.

Thanks for what you have shared.  It is very encouraging knowing that there is much more out there that we don't know anything about and that it is good.

@All
You possess the power to do anything, your intelligence is much far superior to anything that you have ever seen, yet most will live and die in utter ignorance of being normal.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 09:19:49 PM
There are many ways to controlling frequency. It depends on what you are using, I used 36 volts stepped up from 12v using  a simple toroid wound step up transformer, the same one they use in JT light. My frequency was controlled simply with a pot, rectifier, caps and a crystal transistor was only needed component.

Automobiles typically use a 12 DC system. I assume this is what you are talking about when you say 12v.  Please explain to me how you can get 36 volts from 12v using only a simple toroid transformer.  I don't have any idea what a JT light is, but I do know you cant use a transformer with DC unless you pulse it.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 09:20:10 PM
There are many ways to controlling frequency. It depends on what you are using, I used 36 volts stepped up from 12v using  a simple toroid wound step up transformer, the same one they use in JT light. My frequency was controlled simply with a pot, rectifier, caps and a crystal transistor was only needed component.

Automobiles typically use a 12V DC system. I assume this is what you are talking about when you say 12v.  Please explain to me how you can get 36 volts from 12v using only a simple toroid transformer.  I don't have any idea what a JT light is, but I do know you cant use a transformer with DC unless you pulse it.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 23, 2011, 10:51:39 PM
RAD,
I had asked that you read Treatsie in Electricity and Magnetism to gain understanding.

What is Pulse?. It is oscillation.

What happens when you guide wave around circular path as in toroid?.

What happens when you bridge primary and secondary winding in opposing fields in toroid?.

These are old knowledge. Crystals are self build complete oscillating tuning circuits, you control your power input with transformer. Power source is not important, let it be battery or alternator, it does not matter
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slovenia,
The knowledge is already within you, this is not new, Plato told us long ago before this cycle of Man begun. This is not New Age or whatever moronic tern that is being coined today, DO NOT look elsewhere in organizations, religion etc. Look within you, As Jesus had said,"Prepare thy temple and cleanse thou art of sin."

Who is Jesus, you are.

Have you been anointed?.

You are the Temple, how do you prepare?. By raising of your oscillation. You can not recieve the transmission  if you are not tuned. How to raise your vibration and tune to the higher realm, I've already told you so. Natural elements, you are only an elemantry Man.

Virtues, the only  path to inner truth.The only sin that man conducts is self infliction of harm.

If you wish to make the journey, do what Leary had already foretold but do not indulge as it does cost dearly. And you will be limited only to your own level of consciousness, that is only within the 7 Heavens.

Until you know of Who you are, you will never see the light. I AM you, we are ALL.

Good Day.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 23, 2011, 11:27:20 PM
Automobiles typically use a 12 DC system. I assume this is what you are talking about when you say 12v.  Please explain to me how you can get 36 volts from 12v using only a simple toroid transformer.  I don't have any idea what a JT light is, but I do know you cant use a transformer with DC unless you pulse it.

I can help you. Your fogger is it running from AC? If so It should already be at 24v AC output around 1 amp. Can you please verify this?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 11:35:34 PM
I can help you. Your fogger is it running from AC? If so It should already be at 24v AC output around 1 amp. Can you please verify this?

-Altrez

yes
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 23, 2011, 11:38:18 PM
yes

Well all you need to do is step down the AC from 120v to 34v its extremely simple. You use a step down transformer. And then you are done. Do you need help with the Step down transformer?

-Altrez
Title: Thanks!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 23, 2011, 11:38:53 PM
Thanks for sharing with me Power To Be!!!


Slovenia,
The knowledge is already within you, this is not new, Plato told us long ago before this cycle of Man begun. This is not New Age or whatever moronic tern that is being coined today, DO NOT look elsewhere in organizations, religion etc. Look within you, As Jesus had said,"Prepare thy temple and cleanse thou art of sin."

Who is Jesus, you are.

Have you been anointed?.

You are the Temple, how do you prepare?. By raising of your oscillation. You can not recieve the transmission  if you are not tuned. How to raise your vibration and tune to the higher realm, I've already told you so. Natural elements, you are only an elemantry Man.

Virtues, the only  path to inner truth.The only sin that man conducts is self infliction of harm.

If you wish to make the journey, do what Leary had already foretold but do not indulge as it does cost dearly. And you will be limited only to your own level of consciousness, that is only within the 7 Heavens.

Until you know of Who you are, you will never see the light. I AM you, we are ALL.

Good Day.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 11:44:30 PM
Well all you need to do is step down the AC from 120v to 34v its extremely simple. You use a step down transformer. And then you are done. Do you need help with the Step down transformer?

-Altrez

Thanks, but I know how to do that.  I want to know how to take 12vdc and step it up to 36vdc using only a toroid transformer.
 ;)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 23, 2011, 11:51:37 PM
Thanks, but I know how to do that.  I want to know how to take 12vdc and step it up to 36vdc using only a toroid transformer.
 ;)

That is easy as well. If you are using ac you just add more windings on your pickup coil :) I have wrapped a bazillion transformers and have built some close to unity JT's. Do you need more help? Can you please be very specific?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 23, 2011, 11:56:05 PM
Thanks, but I know how to do that.  I want to know how to take 12vdc and step it up to 36vdc using only a toroid transformer.
 ;)

What you are looking for is a DC to DC converter. It needs a transistor a capacitor and a metal material to work.

However your ceramic pizeo needs a pure sine wave to work correctly I believe.

In that case you need to do some things different.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 23, 2011, 11:57:59 PM
That is easy as well. If you are using ac you just add more windings on your pickup coil :) I have wrapped a bazillion transformers and have built some close to unity JT's. Do you need more help? Can you please be very specific?

-Altrez

I know its easy with AC. DC not AC.  How do you do it without using AC, and only a toroid? 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 24, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
I know its easy with AC. DC not AC.  How do you do it without using AC, and only a toroid?

As far as I know you cant do it with only a toroid. If one could that would be extramly intresting. When you apply straight DC current to a toroid you create an Electromagnet.

-Altrez 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 24, 2011, 12:05:05 AM
As far as I know you cant do it with only a toroid. If one could that would be extramly intresting. When you apply straight DC current to a toroid you create an Electromagnet.

-Altrez

EXACTLY!  ;D

Read back a few posts.....
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 24, 2011, 12:10:45 AM
EXACTLY!  ;D

Read back a few posts.....

Is this what you are talking about?

"There are many ways to controlling frequency. It depends on what you are using, I used 36 volts stepped up from 12v using  a simple toroid wound step up transformer, the same one they use in JT light. My frequency was controlled simply with a pot, rectifier, caps and a crystal transistor was only needed component."

If so that is simple. You take the 12v DC run it into a JT with a secondary use the rectifier to convert the 40 or so volts of AC output back to 36vdc. Adjust with a Potentiometer.

Make sense?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 24, 2011, 12:11:58 AM
As far as I know you cant do it with only a toroid. If one could that would be extramly intresting. When you apply straight DC current to a toroid you create an Electromagnet.

-Altrez

I'm sure I just misunderstood Powerme.  What is a JT light?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 24, 2011, 12:13:16 AM
What did Lord Kelvin said about primary winding?.

What is the Hall effect in transformer core?.

What difference does it make if you pulse with transistor or crystal?.

Build it and observe.

 ;D
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 24, 2011, 12:13:47 AM
I'm sure I just misunderstood Powerme.  What is a JT light?

Joule Thief. Its a simple circuit that uses very few parts.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 24, 2011, 12:15:40 AM
What did Lord Kelvin said about primary winding?.

What is the Hall effect in transformer core?.

What difference does it make if you pulse with transistor or crystal?.

Build it and observe.

 ;D

You are talking basics here Power to be. You get a different output with a crystal that is almost freaky on a scope. Very basic stuff.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 24, 2011, 12:16:47 AM
Joule Thief. Its a simple circuit that uses very few parts.

-Altrez

OH! OK, did not register.  ;D
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 24, 2011, 01:07:22 AM
Altrez,
The truth is plain and simple, but people would rather fiddle with 100 components to produce results of a simple wave effect that can be done with a coil and crystal. Coil bridging was done by Tesla in his pancake coil.


RAD
This is very silly. If you  intend to continue to participate in lies and misleading then Let it Be.!  ;D ;D God sped.

You all have a nice day.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 24, 2011, 01:20:06 AM
Simple is good. I like simple. I've got the foggers coming (2) and some crystal oscillators for a simple oscillation circuit. I'd imagine you could just use two pipes of close diameter and hook the thing up to that, but I'll try the transducer parts for now. This is fun. My first batch of crystals should be done tomorrow. I'll post results.

More surface area = more mist = more HHO? Or is it simply the effect of the wave, therefore more crystals exposed = more HHO? I'll mess with some thing, I'm pretty sure from what I've gathered that HHO is dependent on the amount of crystals exposed to the wave at the right point.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 24, 2011, 01:54:21 AM
Altrez,
The truth is plain and simple, but people would rather fiddle with 100 components to produce results of a simple wave effect that can be done with a coil and crystal. Coil bridging was done by Tesla in his pancake coil.


RAD
This is very silly. If you  intend to continue to participate in lies and misleading then Let it Be.!  ;D ;D God sped.

You all have a nice day.

I agree! I am not participating in lies and misleading! I just misunderstood you! I did not catch  the joule thief acronym.  I thought you were saying you were using a transformer with DC only.

I understand now. Thanks Altrez

Sorry  ;D
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 24, 2011, 02:00:40 AM
I agree! I am not participating in lies and misleading! I just misunderstood you! I did not catch  the joule thief acronym.  I thought you were saying you were using a transformer with DC only.

I understand now. Thanks Altrez

Sorry  ;D

You are most welcome ;)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 24, 2011, 05:14:46 AM
I just checked ebay for ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and most of them are already running at 42khz and fairly inexpensive.
Brad S
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: 22sentry on March 24, 2011, 02:36:28 PM
hi all,here is some good info for your project.
pg.39...but the book and the man deserve study.
http://implosia.narod.ru/
 ;)
Title: Piezoelectric Circuits
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 24, 2011, 02:38:49 PM
I came across this forum. It has some good info and links on Piezoelectric ultrasonic circuits......

http://www.electro-tech-online.com/general-electronics-chat/102543-tuned-lcr-circuit-humidifier-5.html
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Cherryman on March 24, 2011, 02:58:27 PM
I just checked ebay for ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and most of them are already running at 42khz and fairly inexpensive.
Brad S

I looked at those too, but those do not produce any fog! 

And I was under the impression the fog also play a usefull part in the progress.  ?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 24, 2011, 03:04:54 PM

RAD
This is very silly. If you  intend to continue to participate in lies and misleading then Let it Be.!  ;D ;D God sped.

You all have a nice day.

I am trying soooooo hard to be the bigger person here and let this go, but it is really eating at me. The only thing I hate worse than a thief is a liar, so please don't call me one!

you have a nice day.  ;D ;D

Peace :)
Rick



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 24, 2011, 03:18:18 PM
I looked at those too, but those do not produce any fog! 

And I was under the impression the fog also play a usefull part in the progress.  ?
I have the feeling that waves, harmonics, amplifications, and frequencies are the major contributors here.  I do not know the value of the fog.  For the price though, I think I will give it a go.

RAD-HHO - Keep up the testing, we are all asking questions and learning. 
Title: Hang In There
Post by: Slovenia on March 24, 2011, 03:50:48 PM
Rick,

Misunderstandings happen.  Hang in there.  Please don't aggravate the TEACHER.  I've been going back through all of the notes and he's offering to share a lot more if we'll reproduce the experiment to his liking, (i.e.: making the crystals, and making a test chamber with pond foggers).

Best Regards,
Slovenia


I am trying soooooo hard to be the bigger person here and let this go, but it is really eating at me. The only thing I hate worse than a thief is a liar, so please don't call me one!

you have a nice day.  ;D ;D

Peace :)
Rick
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 24, 2011, 06:48:22 PM
Altrez,
For your sonofusion, silicon absorbs waves readily. The high notes of ether vibration converts waves into light ahd the lower notes produces cold. You want to avoid the middle notes where waves becomes heat thus causing great loss. Look into zinc sulfide, it inhibts the required quality to excite water at high tones. Your route through scientific approach will be fruitless as Element Phases is already stripped off the current knowledge and you will only be disproved times again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RAD,
If you must uphold your current values then please accept my most humble apology. I am only sorry for having tried to show you what is truth in Nature's realm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@All,
This is a very simple project, so simple that it is quite silly that we have endured durations of weeks and coming into months and later years to replicate a simple approach to liberate water with low tone waves.

I am not your Teacher.  You are ONLY blinded by artificial intelligence and will continue not to see.


Good luck to you all and have a nice day.
Title: Messenger/Teacher/Helper
Post by: Slovenia on March 24, 2011, 09:33:53 PM
Hi Power To Be,

No disrespect was intended by my reference to you as teacher.  I use that only in a humble appreciated context.  You have opened our eyes and many of us appreciate that very much.  Thanks for hanging in there with us.  I am trying to remove the blinders of which you speak.  Many years of study under the false science system has made it a hard venture for me but I am moving forward and have come a long way.  Thanks again for sharing with the herded class.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


I am not your Teacher.  You are ONLY blinded by artificial intelligence and will continue not to see.

Title: Very Serious About Your Project
Post by: Slovenia on March 24, 2011, 10:49:54 PM
Power To Be,

There are a few of us very serious about your project.  Those of us who are will see this through to the end.  We still need your guidance and will soon show you good results.  The rest of my chemistry stuff came today for the crystals.  I'm still waiting for the pond fogger, but it should be here any day now.  I'm going to order some of those piezo transducers from China too.  Maybe I can buy some from Romo if he has extra.  Anyway, I just wanted you to know that we are trying to comply with your experimenting wishes.  I've had a lot of other self imposed duties too which has slowed me down with the archived files and some other things including a lot of study in this area.  I've been gong back and studying all your posts too.  Each time I read the notes I see ten things I missed the first time.  So, it's taken some time but our eyes are opening and we believe the old science books.

Thanks for everything!!!

P.S.:  I could use some help in chamber design for my transducers.  I found a nice brass acoustical horn, but I'm not sure how to properly shroud my transducer.  My horn has a 1/4" opening at the bottom and 1.5" opening at the other end.  So, I can't put my transducer in there.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 24, 2011, 11:13:29 PM
Hey guys, I'm on the final stage (2 hour cooking) I thought I would post a picture. The ammonium is boiling, the thermometer reads 60C give or take a few degrees. I had the condensing tube and all that hooked up but it couldn't reach the appropriate temperature...

For my design I'm going to use an elastic material to adhere the crystals to, first I'm going to just surround the transducer, then space it further away to see what the difference is. Maybe a balloon like material. Since I am the creator, I think this would be best to acclimate myself to this new system and see what happens.

Good luck guys! I read a few papers on this, seems mainstream science noticed a new zinc oxide crystal time generating hydrogen when vibrations were present from cars and the like...
Title: Slovenia Response to Power To Be's Questions
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 03:33:52 AM
Hi Power To Be,

Here's responses to the questions you asked me.

1)  You are the Temple, how do you prepare?

Response:
Cleanse yourself of all unrighteousness and if you have wronged ask repentance of God.

2)  Who is Jesus, you are?

Response:
I was raised Baptist, and even though we were taught Jesus was inside all men who accept him as their savior, we  were also taught that he was a separate entity from us.

The information you have shared is new to me but I am very interested in learning more of it.

3)  Have you been anointed?.

Response:
No

I was studying some of your 0lder posts today and saw where you mentioned Dream REM.  This is all very exciting to me.  I will try to find books by this guy, Leary, you mention and read them too.  Thanks for all you have shared.  You have given me new perspectives on many levels.

Best Regards,
Slovenia



Slovenia,
The knowledge is already within you, this is not new, Plato told us long ago before this cycle of Man begun. This is not New Age or whatever moronic tern that is being coined today, DO NOT look elsewhere in organizations, religion etc. Look within you, As Jesus had said,"Prepare thy temple and cleanse thou art of sin."

Who is Jesus, you are.

Have you been anointed?.

You are the Temple, how do you prepare?. By raising of your oscillation. You can not recieve the transmission  if you are not tuned. How to raise your vibration and tune to the higher realm, I've already told you so. Natural elements, you are only an elemantry Man.

Virtues, the only  path to inner truth.The only sin that man conducts is self infliction of harm.

If you wish to make the journey, do what Leary had already foretold but do not indulge as it does cost dearly. And you will be limited only to your own level of consciousness, that is only within the 7 Heavens.

Until you know of Who you are, you will never see the light. I AM you, we are ALL.

Good Day.
Title: Leary Query (Question to Power To Be)
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 03:46:23 AM
Hi Power To Be,

Which Leary were you referring to when you were talking about books by Leary?  Was it Timothy Leary?  If so, which books or book were you referencing for me to read?  Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Leary Query (Question to Power To Be)
Post by: The Power To Be on March 25, 2011, 04:50:55 AM
Hi Power To Be,

Which Leary were you referring to when you were talking about books by Leary?  Was it Timothy Leary?  If so, which books or book were you referencing for me to read?  Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Much research has already been done in the area of the  After Life. Kenneth Ring,  Karl Jansen, Timothy Leary etc. Please do not believe everything they say or the things that  I had said for granted, only absorb what makesc sense to you.

I am not telling you to do anything here, you have your own life, intelligence etc. If you truly wish to know what life is all about, religion, spirit, soul etc., take a journey there. If you choose to proceed, it will lead to life changing events. I strongly advise that you please take as log as you need to study and understand this field and the phenomena that comes with it, there is no turning back once you get started.

Your Belief is what governs your Reality, find out the truth for yourself first hand. I am no authority. Near Death Experience also brings forth the assimilation of real new information.

Good luck and have a nice day.



Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on March 25, 2011, 05:23:26 AM
I tried the copper I had it sit in the hot ammonia which gradually cooled  overnight and the next day the fluid was blue and the crystals didnt seem to adhere too well to it.  I dropped it into some fresh tap water and some of the crystals came with it.  The transducer I dropped intot the middle of the tube.  Now this tube is just a 2" coupler.  I turned it on and it seemed to produce much more then in the past with crystals in the water.  I think the tube was resonanting and improved the effect.  I tried the flame test and no fire.  I still have an unmodded transducer though.

Here is a relevant quote from a meyer article:
The real differences occur in the power supply to the cell. Meyer uses an external
inductance which appears to resonate with the capacitance of the cell --- pure water
apparently possesses a dielectric constant of about 5 --- to produce a parallel

resonant circuit. This is excited by a high power pulse generator which, together with the cell capacitance and a rectifier diode, forms a charge pump circuit. High frequency pulses build a rising staircase DC potential across the electrodes of the

cell until a point is reached where the water breaks down and a momentary high current flows. A current measuring circuit in the supply detects this breakdown and removes the pulse drive for a few cycles allowing the water to "recover".

So if we modify a transducer and have it cycle a frequency range from 43khz to a yet undetermined higher frequency with say a 555 timer circuit and step up the voltage on a 24v transducer to 36v. Have several transducers inside copper/stainless steel tubes in a cell.  This will fracture the bonds?  I will have to read the treatise on electricity and magnetism yet and that might help.

Does any of this sound right?


Oh and solvenia it seems the acoustical horn idea works since production increased by adding a tube.

Chris
Title: Re: Leary Query (Question to Power To Be)
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 08:36:38 AM
Thanks Power To Be!!

Much research has already been done in the area of the  After Life. Kenneth Ring,  Karl Jansen, Timothy Leary etc. Please do not believe everything they say or the things that  I had said for granted, only absorb what makesc sense to you.

I am not telling you to do anything here, you have your own life, intelligence etc. If you truly wish to know what life is all about, religion, spirit, soul etc., take a journey there. If you choose to proceed, it will lead to life changing events. I strongly advise that you please take as log as you need to study and understand this field and the phenomena that comes with it, there is no turning back once you get started.

Your Belief is what governs your Reality, find out the truth for yourself first hand. I am no authority. Near Death Experience also brings forth the assimilation of real new information.

Good luck and have a nice day.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 25, 2011, 02:51:48 PM
I tried the copper I had it sit in the hot ammonia which gradually cooled  overnight and the next day the fluid was blue and the crystals didnt seem to adhere too well to it.  I dropped it into some fresh tap water and some of the crystals came with it.  The transducer I dropped intot the middle of the tube.  Now this tube is just a 2" coupler.  I turned it on and it seemed to produce much more then in the past with crystals in the water.  I think the tube was resonanting and improved the effect.  I tried the flame test and no fire. 

Chris
Great Work Chris:
Suggestion - Take the temp of the water in the cell.  If your frequencies are too high - you might be making a cavitation heater and destroying the crystals.  Place a balloon or surgical glove on the copper and see if it expands and rises.  Hydrogen being lighter than air should fill the balloon given the temp is not a significant change.  It there is a change in temp, you are probably making steam.  My 2 cents worth.  Again - great work
Brad S
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Sprocket on March 25, 2011, 03:47:46 PM
Why does everyone seem to be going the route of making Zn0 themselves, rather than just buying the stuff?  It would make sense if this was something that was suppressed and unobtainable, but it's not - it's dirt-cheap, ($11 per Ib, shipping included) high-grade and easily bought online.  And what is this obsession with the piezo's frequency?  Unless I'm mistaken this has nothing to do with 'resonance', all you're looking for is something that will produce lots of 'fog' and I'm sure the piezo manufacturers have already chosen the optimum frequency for the transducer in question to produce this effect.  The premise of this thread is that the piezo/Zn0 combination greatly enhances the production of HHO, yet 20 pages later, not one single confirmation of this - it either works or it doesn't!  And "cavitation" is now entering the fray! Aaaaggghhhh......
Title: Why not buy ZnO crystals?
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 04:33:54 PM
Hi Sprocket,

You are right, if we could purchase the crystals ready made it would greatly simplify things.  However, there are some problems with that.  We had one guy purchase some of the zinc crystals somewhere and they turned out to not be what we are looking for here.  The only way to make sure you have the right type of crystals is to make your own according to Power1's instructions.  There are a lot of guys doing this replication, but many are not sharing what they are doing with the others.  That's the problem with these types of forums.  Energetic Forum has the same problem, everyone is off doing their own thing solo.  A few of us are working together here and you will soon see some results posted.  I for one have been archiving and studying all the information posted by Power1 and also doing some other reading, so it's thrown me behind.  Romo is a college student and very busy with his studies.  There are about twenty or so at Energetic doing this experiment too.  Some of us belong to both forums since Power1 isn't able to post on Energetic now.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Why does everyone seem to be going the route of making Zn0 themselves, rather than just buying the stuff?  It would make sense if this was something that was suppressed and unobtainable, but it's not - it's dirt-cheap, ($11 per Ib, shipping included) high-grade and easily bought online.  And what is this obsession with the piezo's frequency?  Unless I'm mistaken this has nothing to do with 'resonance', all you're looking for is something that will produce lots of 'fog' and I'm sure the piezo manufacturers have already chosen the optimum frequency for the transducer in question to produce this effect.  The premise of this thread is that the piezo/Zn0 combination greatly enhances the production of HHO, yet 20 pages later, not one single confirmation of this - it either works or it doesn't!  And "cavitation" is now entering the fray! Aaaaggghhhh......
Title: Re: Why not buy ZnO crystals?
Post by: Sprocket on March 25, 2011, 06:03:59 PM
Hi Sprocket,

You are right, if we could purchase the crystals ready made it would greatly simplify things.  However, there are some problems with that.  We had one guy purchase some of the zinc crystals somewhere and they turned out to not be what we are looking for here.  The only way to make sure you have the right type of crystals is to make your own according to Power1's instructions.  There are a lot of guys doing this replication, but many are not sharing what they are doing with the others.  That's the problem with these types of forums.  Energetic Forum has the same problem, everyone is off doing their own thing solo.  A few of us are working together here and you will soon see some results posted.  I for one have been archiving and studying all the information posted by Power1 and also doing some other reading, so it's thrown me behind.  Romo is a college student and very busy with his studies.  There are about twenty or so at Energetic doing this experiment too.  Some of us belong to both forums since Power1 isn't able to post on Energetic now.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

I missed the posts about someone having bought the wrong crystals, but Power* himself has linked to a source of the crystals in his opening post, the same stuff/price I was referring to.  The only criteria seems to be that they're nano-sized, and there are lots of sources selling this.
Title: Powerme's Link to Finished Crystals
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 06:27:30 PM
I missed Powerme's link to finished crystals.  If he linked us to specific crystals then I would trust those, but I am now leary of the finished crystals unless I know for sure they are okay by Powerme saying so.
Making the crystals has slowed everyone down a lot.  It would have been a lot more expedient without this exercise, but I think Powerme wanted us to learn how to make the crystals too.  Also, he wasn't going to show anyone any more stuff if they didn't make the crystals.  Then, when a few made the crystals, he started sharing more stuff.

I missed the posts about someone having bought the wrong crystals, but Power* himself has linked to a source of the crystals in his opening post, the same stuff/price I was referring to.  The only criteria seems to be that they're nano-sized, and there are lots of sources selling this.
Title: Plating Crystals on Receiver Bowl and/or Other Surface
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 06:33:50 PM
We need to find a good way to plate the finished crystals onto the receiver bowl and/or other surfaces within the cell.  This is a current area we could use your help in right now.  We don't want to waste any more crystals just screwing around.  If you know a good method, please come forward and share it. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 25, 2011, 07:07:22 PM
Slovenia,
Can you post alink to the "Energetic thread"?

Thanks
Chet
PS
It does sound like The "Transducer in a sphere"
Timothy Thrapp/ "WITTS" hot water heater ,may also be figured out here!
Title: Re: Plating Crystals on Receiver Bowl and/or Other Surface
Post by: b_rads on March 25, 2011, 07:49:15 PM
We need to find a good way to plate the finished crystals onto the receiver bowl and/or other surfaces within the cell.  This is a current area we could use your help in right now.  We don't want to waste any more crystals just screwing around.  If you know a good method, please come forward and share it.
In “Power To Me” very first post, he refers us to this site for info on Piezoelectric HHO production.
http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2010/03/23/zinc-oxide-hydrogen-piezoelectric/
Patent application number: 20100012479 is the supporting research and patent request from this link.
From [0164] of this application is the following:
The piezoelectric material fibers can be positioned on the material in arrays that provide the necessary spacing between fibers to prevent any cancellation of the vibration of adjacent fibers by direct interaction of the fibers with one another. In a preferred embodiment for this application of the fibers for producing the PZEC effect to drive a redox reaction, e.g., water-splitting, the spacing is approximately from 50 nm to 20 microns. The orientation of the fibers on the substrate is less important, as the deformation of the fibers occurs as a result of the vibrations striking the fibers regardless of whether the fibers are secured to the substrate at one end, at both ends, are disposed in a co-planar configuration with regard to the substrate, or are utilized without a substrate entirety, i.e., the fibers are free floating within the reaction environment.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 25, 2011, 08:53:17 PM
For my design I'm going to use an elastic material to adhere the crystals to, first I'm going to just surround the transducer, then space it further away to see what the difference is. Maybe a balloon like material. Since I am the creator, I think this would be best to acclimate myself to this new system and see what happens.
Post From JoesCell2 (this is the opinion of a private person):
"Keely found that water will explode at a frequency of 42,712.2 Hz. ... did it with a Quartz Bowl....Think Quartz and how symmetry applies to magnets because that is how quartz crystals are formed, via symmetry."
I plan to submerge a small crystal bowl covered with a coffee filter and a few crystals freefloating and direct my acoustic horn at the bowl.  All parts are on order and hope to have results soon.
Brad S.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: fishman on March 25, 2011, 08:57:13 PM
Why does everyone seem to be going the route of making Zn0 themselves, rather than just buying the stuff?  It would make sense if this was something that was suppressed and unobtainable, but it's not - it's dirt-cheap, ($11 per Ib, shipping included) high-grade and easily bought online.  And what is this obsession with the piezo's frequency?  Unless I'm mistaken this has nothing to do with 'resonance', all you're looking for is something that will produce lots of 'fog' and I'm sure the piezo manufacturers have already chosen the optimum frequency for the transducer in question to produce this effect.  The premise of this thread is that the piezo/Zn0 combination greatly enhances the production of HHO, yet 20 pages later, not one single confirmation of this - it either works or it doesn't!  And "cavitation" is now entering the fray! Aaaaggghhhh......

I believe the link you refer to is for Zn0 nano podwer, not Zno nano crystals.

This new optimum frequency 43kHz thing,  is a curve that was not really said to be a requirement originally. I was originally under the impression that was not required. 
Changing the frequency of a fogger is beyond my capability, so for that part im in a indefinite standby mode. 

The other thing that holds me up is adhering the crystals. I cant help but think if i use any adhesive that the adhesive would wick up the crystals, and probably render them useless? I hate to waste the crystals so im really in no hurry to try that.

The 2 or 3 people how have tried the crystals free floating had no positive results to report. I guess i could go ahead and do this test scene i have no good answers to the other 2 issues.

I did put the US fogger aimed at the crystals attached to my cooking jar.  I did not see any bubbles form. 

I don't think its as simple as "ether it works or it doesn't" Like most things, if you don't do it right, it is not going to work.
Title: Energetic Forum (Power To Be Thread)
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 09:01:11 PM

Energetic Forum (Power To Be Thread)
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity.html

This is the ongoing thread at Energetic Forum.  There are a total of six threads on Energetic where Power To Be posted some pretty cool stuff.  I have archived files on each of these threads at my Yahoo website and also on Scribd if anyone is interested.  If there is interest, I'll post a link to my site where I've archived all the Power To Be intel and also a Scribd link to all the archived files there.


Slovenia,
Can you post alink to the "Energetic thread"?

Thanks
Chet
PS
It does sound like The "Transducer in a sphere"
Timothy Thrapp/ "WITTS" hot water heater ,may also be figured out here!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 25, 2011, 09:14:34 PM
Slovenia
Quote:
If there is interest, I'll post a link to my site where I've archived all the Power To Be intel and also a Scribd link to all the archived files there.

------------------
Thank you
That would be Very Nice!!

Chet
Title: Power To Be's Transducers
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 09:23:09 PM
I was going through some old Powerme notes last night that I hadn't studied that throughly, and came across something interesting.  He said that he used 5 cm Piezo transducers, but that the 2 cm would be fine to use.

I personally think I want to use what he is using myself.  Anyway, I wanted to share this.

Also, Power To Be said in an early post that we only needed to buy the ceramic piezo transducers and we as a team with his help would design our own atomizing chamber which the piezo transducer would be mounted in.  I hope this offer still stands Power To Be.  Thanks for everything.

36 volts pulsed dc
2 x 5 cm piezo runs at 36v pulsed dc taken from genset, average 280 watts power consumption.


Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on March 25, 2011, 11:42:34 PM
Here is something that is interesting..

-Altrez

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 25, 2011, 11:48:19 PM

Slovenia's Website for Power To Be
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Power1Crystal-PiezoelectricStudyGP/

These are my links to archived files I made from Power1 & Powerme threads & posts archived at Scribd.

Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric from OU
http://www.scribd.com/doc/51189669/Practical-Method-for-Production-of-Water-Fuel-From-OU

Best Way to Use Heat From HHO to Generate Electricity
Best Way to Use Heat From HHO to Generate Electricity (http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274423/Best-Way-to-Use-Heat-From-HHO-to-Generate-Electricity)

Growing Crystals, Piezoelectric Energy Harvesting
Growing Crystals, Piezoelectric Energy Harvesting (http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274617/Growing-Crystals-Piezoelectric-Energy-Harvesting)

Magnets on Fuel Line Experiment
Magnets on Fuel Line Experiment (http://www.scribd.com/doc/49274519/Magnets-on-Fuel-Line-Experiment)

New One Added Feb 22, 2011
Plasma-Effect-Cosmic-Ray-Amplification
Plasma Effect - Cosmic Ray Amplification (http://www.scribd.com/doc/49292744/Plasma-Effect-Cosmic-Ray-Amplification)

New One Added February 22, 2011
Bedini-Earth-Light
Bedini Earth Light (http://www.scribd.com/doc/49312133/Bedini-Earth-Light)

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia

Thank you
That would be Very Nice!!

Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 26, 2011, 12:03:40 AM
Just some observations. The transducer causes a water jet to shoot up from it. If the transducer is in the water too deep, the water jet will not breach the surface and the mist effect does not happen. If the jet does breach the water, misting takes place. This leads me to believe that the chamber must be constructed such that the upside down bowl is in the mist area and the water level must be low enough for the transducer to cause it's effect. This is with the stock transformer, mind you. I will rewind it for 36 volts later tonight.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on March 26, 2011, 01:39:15 AM
Yes, you are right Fishman.  That link was for the ZnO powder to make the crystals and not for ready made crystals.   Very Good!!


I believe the link you refer to is for Zn0 nano podwer, not Zno nano crystals.

Title: Chamber for Transducer & other stuff
Post by: Slovenia on March 26, 2011, 02:24:35 AM
I think the geometry for the chamber where the transducer sits may be important too and so far I don't have any ideas for it that really make me feel great.  I can think of a lot of possibilities, but none of the ones I'm thinking of give me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside.  You know the one I mean.  I want our project to be successful, so I'm hoping Power To Be will give us a few pointers on this.

A good material for the chamber I feel would be polypropylene, cutting board material.  It's easy to machine, easy to get online, and fairly inexpensive.

We need to get a good working prototype going soon or  we're going to have a lot of folks loose interest.  Power To Be wants us to all take an active part in this project, but I know how things go, a few do all the work while a majority sit in the stands and watch to see if it's a successful venture before helping.  Well guys, we do need your input and their are some hurdles we need to jump over.

We need a good way to plate the crystals on the bowl receiver so that they will stay in place and not easily be vibrated or washed off.  There's serious water activity in the cell and if the plating is not done right, it will wash off the bowl quickly.  I was going to use epoxy to attach my crystals to my receiver bowl, but the still small voice inside me said don't do it that way.

I've found a good brass horn for us to use I think and it's only $6.00 each, but I still haven't found a suitable brass bowl.  My gut is telling me that a good bowl size is approximately 2.5" in diameter and I just haven't found those dimensions yet.  Also, we need the walls of the bowl to be thin enough that they will resonate freely and I'm thinking 1 mm to 1.5 mm might be the right thickness.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Also, I'm getting a gut feeling that we really should have two transducers in the cell like in Power's diagram.  I was trying to keep my price down in my test cell, but anything worth doing is worth doing right.  So, what do you think?
Title: Egg Shaped Chamber
Post by: Slovenia on March 26, 2011, 02:28:05 AM
I'm leaning towards an egg shaped chamber to help direct a spiraling upward spinning vortex wave towards my receiver.  Of course, the horn would be attached to the top end of the egg if that's what I finally decide on.  Small end pointed in the up position.
Title: Power To Be (His Transducer Circuit)
Post by: Slovenia on March 26, 2011, 03:04:56 AM
March 23, 2011
Power1

Power To Be Gift, his transducer circuit described pretty well.

There are many ways of controlling frequency. It depends on what you
are using.  I used 36 volts stepped up from 12v using a simple toroid
wound step up transformer.  The same one they use in jewel thief light.  My
frequency was controlled simply with a pot, rectifier, caps and a crystal
transistor was the only needed component.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 26, 2011, 10:43:09 AM
Howdy.  It's been a little while.

I had to kill off a midterm, so I am sorry for not having posted this stuff sooner, though I learned of this earlier in the week.  After finishing some precalc/calc equations on that test -- I cannot express the sense of resentment, and dis-satisfaction I had with the theoretical problems I have completed, for a teacher to scribble a number on a page "45/50 points".  I guess it just made sense to me that it didn't have a real connection to reality -- and that working instead with my hands -- seemed to be the real learning.

I do not know if anyone is experiencing anything similar -- I now consider my chemistry 109 Class to be a joke.  If I could learn things like this for the rest of my life -- regardless of from whom it is taught (I hope to be teaching these things to myself eventually) -- I would be a very happy man.

=================================
So, without further indulging in personal life -- here is some information (nuts and bolts) that I am not sure if everyone is clear on already.  Hope it clears some stuff up.  :)
=================================

The Pizeo ceramic discs are specifically made to have a resonant frequency.  The ones that come in the pond foggers already -- run at about 1.7 MHZ -- much too fast.

Putting them for an hour or two on several batches of crystals has destroyed most of their functionality.  I do not know why they were destroyed -- I only know that after awhile, the batches go "dead", and no longer produce tiny HHO bubbles.  To this extent, I am certain that you can get minute quantities of HHO -- I mentioned before that I can get a lighter to flicker.

===============================
Experiment
================================
Get a baloon to test what kind of gas is comming out of the fuel chamber/tupperware.  Light it on fire if you want a test "bang" (and if you don't have ear plugs -- get them. a very small quantity of air in the baloon will suffice -- If it "bangs" it is HHO, if not -- I don't know what to tell you.  Also, A full baloon is very dangerous) 

If you havent constructed a fuel chamber -- tupperware are cheap, and dispensible.  Don't put the tupperware too close to the side of the transducer, it burns from the fogger, just like RadHHO showed.  It's pretty nifty to burn it though to see what happens.   :o
=============================

I know at least, I dont want the crystals to be destroyed after a few hours of operation.  So, This means, we will need a transducer which resonates around 45 KHZ.  There are several different kinds you can get -- some for ultrasonic welding and cosmetic cavitation -- those are the ones which do not produce mist.

You CAN use these ones -- but you will need another pond fogger to produce the mist effect -- so that you have mist along with the HHO to burn inside the engine cylinder.  This is a use for a secondary pond 1.7 MHZ fogger.  Just to make the mist.

Here are Some examples of the 50 MM discs that run at 45 KHZ -- Look at the bottom of the page
http://www.steminc.com/SAMPLES_USA.asp?PZ_TYPE=PIEZO%20DISC

They're a little pricey, but if you dont want -- you can find similar ones on ebay if you want to rush ship it.  They also come cheaper from overseas, at the cost of time in shipping.

I.E --
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/374131292/Ultrasonic_piezo_transducer_45Khz.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/424619797/ultrasonic_cleaning_transducer_45khz.html

Here's a little something that I couldn't find on the internet -- I had to talk to a technician for this bit of info.  The pizeo foggers do not tune well.  They are MADE to shake at a certain speed.  If you tune it anything drastically past its frequency -- without compensating by increasing electrical power input (which, I do not know how to do safely) -- You will loose power to your wave amplitude.  For the sake of making the setup the most efficient possible -- we need to look for a pizeo disc with (+/-)5 KHZ.  So, either a 40-45 KHZ fogger should be good to tune with around the proper frequency.  I would even think a 50KHZ might work, because you could tune it slightly out of resonance, with small power losses.

The reason we are looking for "around" 45 KHZ, is because we are looking to tune it within the resonant frequency -- so that we do not loose power in the amplitude of the waves we are creating.

Something else to look out for -- is the maximum power rating of the transducer.  You will need a power circuit, and a transformer to be around that rating.  (I would suggest slightly less, or spot on the max power rating).

You might even be able to hook up simply a different ceramic without much modification to the original 1.7 MHZ circuit.  I have not yet tested this yet.  When I do, I will post results -- for now, this was intended for a little bit of "food for thought".

If need be, I found a great local electronics shop where I got help with transformer winding.  I might need a different transformer than the stock transformer that came with the original pond fogger. (Like powerme was saying all along... >.< ) 
I suggest also finding a local shop.  Sincerely asking for help, because I did not understand completely what I was doing at the shop I went to -- the people were remarkably friendly and helpful.

=============================
Something I wanna stress here:
The internet is by no means the limits to the ways you can find your solutions.  Books, libraries, Phone books (to call companies who make electronics parts), electronics shops, engineers, professors -- If you do not give up and beleive that you are capable of finding a solution -- you will have the determination to poke around any knowledge-barrier.  This is at least, my experience.
=============================


I am also working on electroplating with a car battery and a pretty hefty resistor, instead of one of them power supplies.  Much cheaper alternative.  :)

If you are looking up electroplating, there IS a specific voltage and current input you're going to need to make it stick to a given surface area.  You usually need a variable power source -- but I wanna do it cheaper, and can use my brain to calculate the necessary resistor values (with the help of a book).  Hence, the resistor on the battery -- to reduce voltage and limit current flow, so that I do not "fry" my solution anymore.  The crystals also become "dead" if you ram too many volts, or amps through it.

I don't have the volts or amps figures off the top of my head right now, but I found the value I needed in an electroplating hobbyist handbook.  It was under "zinc electroplating" or "Zinc oxide electroplating".

I find it interesting that, though electricity is a dampened wave, It still can destroy the crystals functionality. (I.E -- Induce an undesirable phase change) 

I am currently working on a book list to download and read -- I am now determined to accumulate all the works of Russel, Keeley, and Tesla.  Does anyone know if there has already been a list of compiled works from either of those authors?  If nobody answers, I'll find he answer soon enough anyways...

Also, Just a tangent Has anyone ever seen keeley's acoustic charts, and compared to Russel's charts?  They're awfully similar. (Or, the charts from code 144.com? -- posted @ energetic forums about leedskalinin)  :)

I found that reading keeley after being in trance (meditating, bineural, or hypnosis) -- makes it much easier to understand.  After reading it, I only know that it makes sense to me.  I do not know how -- But I only know that I get a "feel" for what the author meant, and then I understand.  Does anyone else get this?  Does anyone know what this is??  This is a curious matter for me, as I want to understand why It makes sense to me, and sometimes not my friends whom I tell about these things.

Anyways, While I am waiting for the foggers with the correct resonant frequency to come in the mail -- I will be using the 1.7 MHZ fogger ceramic to make a fuel atomizer, so that I can begin tweaking my engine to run on a water-mist/gasoline mixture as is.  Some of powerme's general figures said that his friend was able to reduce by 30% gasoline with the atomizer.  This will be a target figure for me to investigate tomorrow and sunday.

I begin testing tomorrow after I can bike down the the auto store for the fuel-can, and fuel-line tubing.

===========================
Technical information /end
============================

Guys, if you ARE experimenting with this -- I would highly appreciate it if you Post your setups, and READ CAREFULLY what powerme said.

Most of the questions, or recent posts I have seen in this thread seem to be fluff -- repeating what powerme has said -- or someone else going "Aha!  This is what he meant!" When the answer has laid in front of us all along.  That isn't exactly learning -- that's reading more carefully what should have been read in the first place.  I'm personally trying NOT to ask powerme direct questions and work with what I have, because I feel like that's pestering him for information that he already may have said.  I know I sure don't like to repeat myself.

Plus -- I figure -- what if Powerme decides to leave?  I would not like this, because I am still trying to process, and understand the information -- but the bottom line is, I need to be able to collect my information myself.  Like the bailout with the US auto industry, and foreign trade regulations/taxes on foreign import cars -- It's only hurting the companies who are getting the "easy way out" in the end.

I can only imagine that it would be frustrating to see this thread post little progress -- and seem to be floundering through the information we have been given.  I at least, know that my patients gets thinner when I desire something to be done quickly.

I am trying to fill in some gaps that powerme left in his information, with answers that I have encountered in my research.  I hope this is helpful, and that it encourages other people get caught up to speed on the project,

==Romo
Title: Fluff (Repeating Power To Be Posts)
Post by: Slovenia on March 26, 2011, 12:09:24 PM
Hi Romo,

Great to have you back.  I've been trying to keep the thread alive on both Energetic and here at OU, so I have reposted some Power1 information that I thought some of the others may have missed.  As you said everybody ought to have got it the first time, but some guys don't read everything posted and then they don't go back and study the old posts.  So, much information is missed and I was just trying to help in that area.  I don't want the thread to die, because I think Power To Be has a lot more to share if we'll show him some success in our experiments, (i.e.: producing the crystals to his specifications and building a test cell to his specifications).  I for one, what to have a look at this 10 Kw free energy machine he made reference to.  Anyway, I also wanted to show Power To Be that there is still interest in his project so he'll keep visiting this thread and helping us from time to time.

Thanks for all you have shared!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Meditating, bineural, hypnosis
Post by: Slovenia on March 26, 2011, 12:25:02 PM
I've been working in this area too with regard to the meditating.  I'll try the bineural too now.  Thanks for sharing this.  The bineural really put me into a relaxed state where I'm not much good for anything all day long, so I don't do them during the day ordinarily.


I found that reading keeley after being in trance (meditating, bineural, or hypnosis) -- makes it much easier to understand.  After reading it, I only know that it makes sense to me.  I do not know how -- But I only know that I get a "feel" for what the author meant, and then I understand.  Does anyone else get this?  Does anyone know what this is??  This is a curious matter for me, as I want to understand why It makes sense to me, and sometimes not my friends whom I tell about these things.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on March 26, 2011, 11:59:19 PM
I scrounged around what I could today and got a simple oscillator made out of a 555 timer, I didn't have any crystals. I hooked a doorbell transformer up to it and I'm getting about 36V RMS at 73khz, and 27V RMS at 43khz. Looks pretty good so far...I just hope it can deliver enough current to get the job done.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Sprocket on March 27, 2011, 12:28:16 AM
I believe the link you refer to is for Zn0 nano podwer, not Zno nano crystals.

...

Thanks for the clarification, I thought they were one and the same thing!  Think I've got some re-reading to do...
Title: $125
Post by: Slovenia on March 27, 2011, 03:06:19 AM
I was hoping you were wrong Sprocket, because I already have $125 tied up in my crystal making project.  That does include by magnetic stirring sticks and hot plate with magnetic stirrer plus all the chemicals.  I'm going double check the recipe to make sure I make my crystals the right way too so I don't end up with wasted dollars.  Thanks for showing your interest.


Thanks for the clarification, I thought they were one and the same thing!  Think I've got some re-reading to do...
Title: Good Job Romo
Post by: Slovenia on March 27, 2011, 03:09:41 AM
Good job Romo!!  Some very nice tidbits in your last post.   As Power To Be says, you have a very good mind indeed!!
Title: Higher Knowledge REM Dreams
Post by: Slovenia on March 27, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
Thanks Power1 & Romo!!

REM Dreams:
Well guys, there is something to this REM Dream thing.  Thanks Power1 & Romo for sharing about it on this thread.  It's like there is an information download during your REM Dream cycle.  So, how do you get your Higher Self to share with you during this time?  Well, you get into a relaxed state before you go to bed in the night and you ask yourself questions expecting an answer.  Last night, I ask myself a whole lot of questions concerning this Power1 project, specific questions.  Well, in the night I thought about aspects of this project all night while I slept.  Whenever I would get up in the night, this project was on my mind hot and heavy.  I woke up this morning and couldn't tell you what I learned in the night, but I am at peace with this project now.  I know we are going to be successful with it.  I know also that I am going to have some help from an area of myself that I was totally unaware could help me.   

Timothy Leary:
Also, thanks Power1 for mentioning Timothy Leary.  His books are awesome indeed and will get a lot of reading from me.  He was a very prolific writer too.  Anyway, he has a book on learning that is very awesome indeed.  It's entitled "Super Learning".

Anyway Guys, don't sit on the side line.  Check out some of these awesome things Power To Be has shared with us.  It's all very incredible stuff!!
Title: Pond Fogger Use Update
Post by: Slovenia on March 27, 2011, 01:30:22 PM
Fogger Update
I did see where Power1 said the foggers would work with regard to this experiment but at a less efficient rate. He did say though to throw away the power supplies that came with the foggers and do certain other things in order to have them work better. I don't remember which post specifically at the moment, but he did mention this. I'll be going back and trying to find that reference again.

Good job Romo!!
Title: Re: My Pond Fogger for Comparison Purposes
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 27, 2011, 07:06:36 PM
My pond fogger is made by China Piezo.  I don't have it yet, but I ordered it from Mainland Mart and here is a pic of it.  What are you all using.

http://i53.tinypic.com/solv6r.png

Hey guys,

I Just noticed something in the first post that I missed before.


Ultrasonic Water Fogger-The Mist Maker
http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html
K006 is the transducer, there machines are bit too $$$ but they ship fast. buy em cheap from aliexpress or taobao, delivery takes 1 week.


Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 27, 2011, 07:48:35 PM
RAD-HHO,  I tried looking once on aliexpress and taobao but didn't seem to find them.  Can you post a link on their ultrasonic foggers? 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 27, 2011, 08:28:36 PM
RAD-HHO,  I tried looking once on aliexpress and taobao but didn't seem to find them.  Can you post a link on their ultrasonic foggers?

I could not find any on taobao, but I did find some on aliexpress.

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/386739037-wholesale-3pcs-lot-Mist-Maker-Fogger-20mm-Ceramic-Disc-ceramic-disk-Replacement-bit-free-shipping-wholesalers.html

They are 20mm, but they dont say for DK-3. I dont know if they are the same or not. They are 20mm, but there are other 20mm discs on the http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html site that they state are only for certain other misters.

I sent Mainlandmart an email to get some more specs on the K006 replacement discs.
Title: Nice To See You!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 27, 2011, 10:09:05 PM
Nice to see you are still with us.  I think it was taobao requires a language converter to see what all they have in their search engine.  I think I recall Power1 mentioning that somewhere.

I could not find any on taobao, but I did find some on aliexpress.

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/386739037-wholesale-3pcs-lot-Mist-Maker-Fogger-20mm-Ceramic-Disc-ceramic-disk-Replacement-bit-free-shipping-wholesalers.html

They are 20mm, but they dont say for DK-3. I dont know if they are the same or not. They are 20mm, but there are other 20mm discs on the http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html site that they state are only for certain other misters.

I sent Mainlandmart an email to get some more specs on the K006 replacement discs.
Title: Piezoelectric Transducers
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 27, 2011, 11:20:34 PM
Heres another good source of info on piezoelectric transducers.

http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/CommunityCollege/Ultrasonics/EquipmentTrans/piezotransducers.htm
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 28, 2011, 01:43:12 AM
After thinking about this project this weekend and doing some research,  this is a simplified explanation of what I think is going on.  If I am correct, this will greatly simplify this project for me towards replication.  Please do not read the attachment if you have already formed your own ideas as I do not wish to influence your thoughts.
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on March 28, 2011, 02:17:23 AM
Thanks for sharing your document. 

After thinking about this project this weekend and doing some research,  this is a simplified explanation of what I think is going on.  If I am correct, this will greatly simplify this project for me towards replication.  Please do not read the attachment if you have already formed your own ideas as I do not wish to influence your thoughts.
Title: Re: Fluff / Reposting Power To Be Info
Post by: Slovenia on March 28, 2011, 02:28:51 AM
Fluff / Reposting Power To Be Info

I'm going to step back and limit my posts on this thread now.  I was reposting a lot of Power To Be info on this thread for two reasons.  One was to keep things moving and the other was to refocus on some truths shared by Power To Be that might have been missed by many of those who aren't keeping up with these threads like I was.  It's been very time consuming doing what I have been doing and I took a pretty good hit the other day for doing it in a fellow member's post.  Anyway, I will now let someone else take the lead.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: happyfunball on March 28, 2011, 03:23:50 AM
Have you seen this?

World's First 'Practical' Artificial Leaf Can Cheaply Turn Water Into Energy

http://inventorspot.com/articles/worlds_first_artificial_leaf_doesnt_look_leaf_it_acts_one
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 28, 2011, 09:45:41 AM
Whoo!  So after a full weekend, I made an atomizing chamber out of a red gasoline tank.  I used a soldering iron to melt a hole in the side of the can for the pizeo's wire to go out of.  Used Epoxy to keep the pizeo stuck on one side of the tank.  Melted another hole in the side of the can with fuel-line hose to connect to th intake manifold for gas out.  Used epoxy to make all of the "holes" I had made in the can waterproof.  I can connect a little computer fan to where you would usually pour gas out of to blow air into the can, and push out the atomized fuel.

Filled it with water after the epoxy dried to be just above the "optimal level" -- I played with water levels over the pond fogger until I found one that produced some pretty good water-fog that was still a reasonable distance away from the fogger/water sensor.  I don't know if the "sensor" part of the foggger would holdup against gasoline -- so I needed the water-buffer in between the gas and water.

I marked that with a sharpie so I could easily see it and refill it to that level.

And it works.  It "atomizes" fuel to be very finely suspended in the air.  This was shown to be a viable way to atomize fuel in the sultek video posted a while back.  Very cool.

I can hook up this tube to the intake manifold, and it runs.  The speed that you blow/have the fan on dictates how rich the mixture is for now.  This is just the first make -- I plan on making it better by adding valves to the gas output, and using the secondary mister and a large Tupperware.

=================
Further ideas:
If I can put valves on both foggers, and then make a junction between the two misters before they go into the intake manifold.  The atomizer uses very little gasoline.  Using the valves, I should be able to roughly modify the fuel/water mixture.

Even before my pizeo's of the proper frequency come in, I should be able to make the engine.

I'll post drawings, and pictures of the setup when the sun comes out.  :)

The good news is, it works, and the engine runs, and it runs on the atomized fuel, no problem.  I'll be testing efficiencies of the atomizer vs. Carburetor soon. (which lets the engine run for longer might be a good test)  This would let me know how much I can improve it from original efficiencies, and how much water/fuel mixture I can put in for it to still be able to work without noticing a difference.

Then, I can test water/HHO mixtures -- and be able to "lean down" the gasoline mixtures, hopefully to zero.  I beleive this is possible, and is my goal.  I hope to be able to tune the setup by building in a sort of "learn/modify as I go along" approach.

This is amazing, and looks very promising.  I am sincerely grateful information so far.

I now have in my possession three batteries.  I found an old scrapped battery in an odd synchronicity.  Is there anything else I should try to get beforehand for the Lead-battery procedure?

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 28, 2011, 09:47:56 AM
Have you seen this?

World's First 'Practical' Artificial Leaf Can Cheaply Turn Water Into Energy

http://inventorspot.com/articles/worlds_first_artificial_leaf_doesnt_look_leaf_it_acts_one

I don't mean to be a damper, but I don't quite see the connection between this, and the HHO production.  Can you please clairify if it is related?

==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on March 28, 2011, 09:54:41 AM
ROMO
Its the science!!
Probably what your doing here, Just different soup/recipe!

Freaking amazing!!

Holy Crap Amazing.............................

Straight to "Power" Using Carbon Dioxide ,water and a few simple "nano" things no burning etc...

Happyfunball
Quote:

Have you seen this?

World's First 'Practical' Artificial Leaf Can Cheaply Turn Water Into Energy

http://inventorspot.com/articles/worlds_first_artificial_leaf_doesnt_look_leaf_it_acts_one

-------------------------

Chet
PS
Slovenia
I/m not trying to be dramatic here.
But THIS IS HUGE!!

Its like Manna from heaven ! I'm Dumbfounded!
You fellahs realize that you are playing in the same "SandBox" [nano Crystal Tech]!!
We have someone who's trying to Change the world for the better [This Inventer}

And we are a group of like mind..............

Daniel Nocera [the Inventer] we gotta call this Guy!!





Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 28, 2011, 10:44:53 AM
Hey Romo,
Great job, observe well and Nature will reveal all there is to know.

I hope everyone has made an effortt to read the suggested books to gain a true understanding of electrical waves. There are many ways to do this project, very simple coils can be build wit common materials, you can control your frequency in many different ways, they are very simple, really!.

The leaf is a discrete electrolysis method using well known element polarity properties. PEM is done real cheap with common elements, do not believe the hype that you need expensive noble elements. There are lots of publications already covering this field, the Russians had  many great findings both in PEM and Sonochemistry, Sonofusion. Study your elements and their electrical properties. Nature works hard to keep our balance, in this method, you would have to alloy elements to obtain desired property. As Tesla had said, matter does not contain energy, energy comes only from the enviroment where it is abundant. Keeley had done a fine job describing Matter and Force.

The Sun provides us with abundant amount of energy daily. These are all waves, many wave lengths. Nature does produce HHO daily, enormous  amount of HHO. This may not be practical for closed loop automotive use but one can make some space and you can produce all of the HHO that you may ever need just by using natural crystals, quartz etc, you just have to size your crystals proportional to the wave that you wish to harvest. By alloying or doping crystals with other elements, you increase the effeciency of the crystals

Man creates artificial obstacles that nature breaks down with atomic decay, but if you create according to Nature's defined pathways, you will allow the force of Nature of oscillating waves to do useful work that we call energy instead of decaying unorganized structures tthat Man loves to create. What is the size of the waves?. Size your collector accordingly, use known geometries to govern waves. That is how you harvest energy with PbS.

If you understand Nature, hopefully you are starting to do so, you will see that everything is abundant. That is why we are all Equal, all of the wealth that Man desires is right in front of him, but One that can See will find it very silly to care for such nonesense and worthless things.

The only thing of Value is life it self, and perhaps the Stone but a Man that can See will grow tired of it soon.

Good luck all and have a nice day.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 28, 2011, 11:16:36 AM
Chet,
For what it's worth, crystals is Nature's designed circuit to generate/ harvest waves.  There is nothing else that you need to do, Nature does the work for you. What is in a Leaf, Lattice, this is biological lattice of tuned crystals.

You are the creator, you can create anything according to your liking.
Title: Good to See You Power To Be
Post by: Slovenia on March 28, 2011, 12:27:54 PM
It was very good to see you post again!!  I'm glad you are still with us.
Title: Re: Good to See You Power To Be
Post by: The Power To Be on March 28, 2011, 12:55:32 PM
Thank you for your continued efforts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAkM_dV6CFs&feature=player_detailpage#t=3346s
Very good video on MIT electrolysis material, at the end, he does tell you the elements that they use, there's also an element that will allow self repair of your crystals. These are common elements that you can find everywhere. We are doing sonofusion here where we create fog and HHO for ICE fuel .

If you are want just straight DC, then  electrolysis is the way to go. Your crystals will work there also. What is going into the water through electrodes?. Waves. What is the plant absorbing through it' leaves?. Waves,  BUT, you can harvest  a wider array of the spectrum than what a plant can.

It was very good to see you post again!!  I'm glad you are still with us.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 28, 2011, 05:51:55 PM
@petar113507
Great work Romo.
If you are not opposed, you might try adding a drop or two of water soluable detergent into your soup to increase the water/hydrogen output.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant
Surfactants are compounds that lower the surface tension of a liquid, the interfacial tension between two liquids, or that between a liquid and a solid. Surfactants may act as detergents, wetting agents, emulsifiers, foaming agents, and dispersants.
Brad S.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on March 28, 2011, 08:54:16 PM
After thinking about this project this weekend and doing some research,  this is a simplified explanation of what I think is going on.  If I am correct, this will greatly simplify this project for me towards replication.  Please do not read the attachment if you have already formed your own ideas as I do not wish to influence your thoughts.

b_rads,  thanks for your explanation on this.  Was that video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hPn5y2we8M ) you put in your write up one that you did or someone else?  I'm at a loss to understand where the hydrogen was coming from in that video as all I saw was a pump and the ultrasonic.  Was this the result of having the ultrasonic running at around 43 Khz? 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 28, 2011, 09:21:06 PM
b_rads,  thanks for your explanation on this.  Was that video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hPn5y2we8M ) you put in your write up one that you did or someone else?  I'm at a loss to understand where the hydrogen was coming from in that video as all I saw was a pump and the ultrasonic.  Was this the result of having the ultrasonic running at around 43 Khz?
Many thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts on this subject.
No I did not post that video, it was by someone else.  I realize now that I did not do a good job of relating why I put this link in.  The idea relating to this video was to evacuate the chamber quickly, else the hydrogen will reunite with the oxygen reforming water and all of the work in separating would be lost.  In the video he is using gasoline, no hydrogen involved.  He mentioned using a fogger, so I would think he was running much higher than 43Khz.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 28, 2011, 11:25:29 PM
@B_rads, Thank you for your suggestion about surface tension in the water.  I'll give it a test to see if it modifies the HHO rates when the epoxy dries on the tupperware.
In regards to your PDF, you have an interesting way to think about the subject -- but I have one question.

This may seem like a basic question, but Do you think the bowl is suspended in the air, or the water?
To me, it came across as though your bowl covered in the zinc oxide crystals would be in the air -- which I beleive to be the incorrect setup. 

To anyone who thinks the bowl should be in the air -- I ask, how would the ultrasonic transducer propagate the waves to the crystals?  I think "in the air" bowl could be a viable option, if you tweak the entire setup.  As powerme has laid it out so far -- this does not seem to be the case -- instead to be laid in the water where the waves can readily make the crystals vibrate very quickly.

If the effect were soley due to temperature -- why would we be shooting for 43 KHZ, and not use the 1.7 MHZ fogger?  1.7 MHZ produces more "heat", but not more HHO with the crystals.

As far as I can tell -- the reason that the crystals are destroyed in my setup have been due to too MUCH heat/vibrations from the ultrasonic fogger -- They should stay stable while they are around their resonant frequency, or slighty above it @ 45 KHZ.

I am only trying to clairify, to see if I can set any potential "group" to be in a similar direction.  I don't want anyone to be confused.  I would love to hear your theory after you've put some tests out to verify that that is the "effect". 

My results seem to currently indicate that it is not the thermal dis-association of water as you would suggest, which produces the dis-association.  Temperature may be a symptom that we can see relating to cavitation, but it would not nescessarialy be the cause.  I think the effects of the cavitation, were what powerme knows how to use/altrez working to use to produce power.

If I have mis-understood what you meant -- Can you please clairify it further?  I'd like to encourage as many people as I can to work on the project -- but I would not like anyone to give up frustrated, because they had a hypothesis which was not clearly, or completely formed.

I do not mean to dampen your creativity, but I simply do not think that you have considered all of the factors contributing to this particular setup.  Powerme told us in his posts it was pizeoelectric -- If you can prove it to be thermoelectric, that would be very interesting.
So far, my setup seems to be pizeoelectric, and I'm thinking it will be more so pizeo-electric when I get the correct frequency correct.

Cheers mate,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 28, 2011, 11:48:24 PM
Romo and all,

regarding the bowl, in the original drawing Power posted, it stated they were splash guards.  As far as I can tell thats the only purpose they can serve with this set-up.  On the other hand, Power says the fog is easily disassociated with the crystals.  No fog in the water.  ???
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 29, 2011, 12:09:40 AM
Great observation RAD-HHO
@petar113507
Thank you for entertaining my view on what I think this process is doing.  I certainly enjoy a good theoretical discussion with you on this, however I am far behind you in the experimental stage.  Still awaiting supplies.
If my physics serve me correctly – the speed of sound in air is around 750mph, whereas it is approximately 3,000 mph in the water.  When the sound escapes the water it loses velocity and deflects in strange ways.  We want these sound waves to move around the chamber as quickly as possible, so I agree, the bowl needs to be in water.
The effect we are looking for is not the temperature of the entire body of water.  In fact, when the temperature of the water gets to within 10 degrees of boiling, cavitation ceases.  It would be unreasonable to believe that we could bring the entire body of water to 3,000 C or higher in our home experiments.  We are looking for cavitation bubbles that implode with temperatures said to be 10,000 C.  Remember that these cavitation bubbles implode immediately and this whole process is incredibly fast affecting only the water molecules adjacent to the bubble.  This is why the whole mixture should not overheat.  At 43Khz, the cavitation bubbles are at there largest size, and are the most violent.  Even at 43Khz, you probably wouldn’t see them as they are microscopic in size. 

When I have conclusive tests I will be happy to share them with you.  Until that time, you are the man with answers as you appear to be much further along than I am.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 29, 2011, 12:24:09 AM
Great observation RAD-HHO
@petar113507
Thank you for entertaining my view on what I think this process is doing.  I certainly enjoy a good theoretical discussion with you on this, however I am far behind you in the experimental stage.  Still awaiting supplies.
If my physics serve me correctly – the speed of sound in air is around 750mph, whereas it is approximately 3,000 mph in the water.  When the sound escapes the water it loses velocity and deflects in strange ways.  We want these sound waves to move around the chamber as quickly as possible, so I agree, the bowl needs to be in water.

The effect we are looking for is not the temperature of the entire body of water.  In fact, when the temperature of the water gets to within 10 degrees of boiling, cavitation ceases.  It would be unreasonable to believe that we could bring the entire body of water to 3,000 C or higher in our home experiments.  We are looking for cavitation bubbles that implode with temperatures said to be 10,000 C.  Remember that these cavitation bubbles implode immediately and this whole process is incredibly fast affecting only the water molecules adjacent to the bubble.  This is why the whole mixture should not overheat.  At 43Khz, the cavitation bubbles are at there largest size, and are the most violent.  Even at 43Khz, you probably wouldn’t see them as they are microscopic in size. 

When I have conclusive tests I will be happy to share them with you.  Until that time, you are the man with answers as you appear to be much further along than I am.

There we are, it was just a mis-understanding from my part. 
Thanks for clearing that up.   :)

I was going to be a physics major in college, so I know a little bit on about how we view the world.   ;)  I have only become more intensely interested in older theories, and what people could do in "olden days" science. 

It sounds then, like you might be going along a similar thought tangent I had a while back.

This may just be food for thought, but these are questions which helped me better understand (what I think) is going on here.  If you have not already considered these:

What relation does electricity have, compared to temp.? 
What is temperature/heat? 
How are we using that to our advantage with the crystals?  (I already may have shared that with the "doink" push of the crystals)

And finally -- If all of these do have a relation to one another, then why are we adding Magnesium to the crystal structure?

You are simply describing that that resonant frequency creates the cavitation bubble effect.   I got a little confused when you were talking about temperatures/cavitation bubbles being (as I interperted it, to be) the cause of the crystals vibrating -- not the "symptom", or effect of the waves moving through the water.

There is a subtle difference.  :)

Glad to be able to compare notes. 
Cheers,

==Romo


@All I am not an expert at the setup, and my fogger has not yet arrived, so I cannot accurately say whether the bowl is better suited in the water/air.  It is, (until I test it), my opinion that it should be in the water.  I want to be clear about this, so that everyone is open to testing their hypothesis-es.   ;)
Title: Update with pictures
Post by: petar113507 on March 29, 2011, 12:29:56 AM
It doesn't have to be too pretty -- I stuck the pizeo inside by cutting out part of the top of the fuel tank.  It will be epoxied shut when I no longer need access to the inside of the container.
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss173/Romo_Land/HHO%20ICE/0328111025.jpg

This one was taken as I was making it.  You can see the little circle cut out on the back for the black fuel-line hose.  Soldering iron in the background, as well as an old audio amp I'm taking apart, and some of my batteries for the project.
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss173/Romo_Land/HHO%20ICE/0328111026.jpg

The white tubing is the "in" tubing to connect to the fan.  the chamber is the fan which I will use (It is large enough for overkill of both the fogger, and the fuel-atomizer).  The pizeo is inside the chamber.
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss173/Romo_Land/HHO%20ICE/0328111417.jpg

This one shows the tubing hooked up to the intake manifold.  This is where the air filter was on the engine -- and you can even see the filter + screws below it just after I took it off.  I am pointing to the junction where the tube goes to the engine.
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss173/Romo_Land/HHO%20ICE/0328111418.jpg

It is before where I am pointing, that I plan on making a 3 way junction, with an on/off valve -- like in this picture.

I plan to duct-tape a trash bag to the fan (labeled "bag"), and then use large aquarium tubing to connect the air-pressure bag to BOTH the gas atomizer, and the HHO/water atomizer (Labeled "HHO Gen" in picture).
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss173/Romo_Land/0328111439.jpg

Then, get two "Ball Valves" in front of the HHO "Gen" on the the output lines, so that by opening or closing the valves slightly, I can modify the ammount of either side of the fuel-input.

If you don't know what ball valves are google it.
Here you go:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=614&q=ball+valve&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=

The whole purpose of this post, is to show that the setup doesn't have to be pretty, or very expensive.  Probably the most expensive part of this setup was the epoxy (they're five dollars per tube -- and I liberally apply epoxy to be on the safe side of sealants), and the fuel cans -- 10 bucks or so (nescessary to be gasoline-resistant).

These are my ideas for a prototype -- this prototype will not be very mobile, but should be functional, and should allow me to run tests on the engine.

I'll keep you guys posted when the new pizeo head comes in, and what I'll be doing with that.

 :)

=======================================
Powerme, I am researching the Lead Sulfide effect which you had mentioned as your next project to share.  It is looking like the "Epitaxial" process of laying down the lead sulfide vapor over a silicone surface would form the crystals we are looking for -- the timing, and very precise weight measurement would allow us to see what size of crystals we are growing.  Putting it over the silicone surface, as well would form some type of "diode" junction for the "power out" which we would obtain. (I am assuming this is why you mentioned silicone refinement with an HHO torch -- so that we could do it ourselves at home to make the pure silicone slab/sheet)

I asked what kind of equipment I might need to make the crystals, because I am under the impression that this process will require a little bit more intense equipment -- such as a vacuum chamber, or a high heat source. 

If we do require these things, then I need to start to look for someplace outside of my apartment to do my experiments, now, as this breaches my contract with the complex. I would also need to look where I can find such machines to establish the conditions, under which the crystals will grow to the proper size. 

I do not mean to prod here, but I have done a lot of work recently without knowing exactly what is ahead.  Because what you have said so far has made sense to me, and I have regonized it to be true -- I have been willing to take those risks.  I do not mean to come across as unwilling to work, or unwilling to research, and look to you for an easy answer -- But I have been taking risks that could have been a little smoother if I had a little bit of a heads up before hand.  With more expensive/dangerous equipment, I need to know as much as I can about it.  In order to research this, it would be nice to know sooner, rather than later.  I don't think this is entirely unreasonable.  If you are unwilling to share any information -- I understand.  I would like to know, because I am "on board" for future project information which you might share -- and could be getting a "head start" on it.  I am eager to work.

Like I said, I feel that I need to act quickly in order to change things.  I am ready to act.

I do not know the procedure which you have planned, or machines/matierals used to make this project.  Anything would help.  I will make a post later tonight about everything I know about lead sulfide and the expitaxial depositing of lead/lead sulfide, so that you do not have to explain everything.

Like I said, I am willing to work dilligently -- and I am listening carefully to what advice you give. 
Thank you for everything you have been sharing. 

In regards to the virtues, I have been reading over the list often, and I feel more resonance in my heart from it -- I feel happier, and kinder towards others, and more sincere.  I think the word is "heartfelt".  Perhaps "coincidentally" related, but I understand more concepts from walter russell now.

I am currently reading the book you suggested on electricity.

Thank you,
==Romo
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 29, 2011, 02:06:45 AM
What relation does electricity have, compared to temp.? 
What is temperature/heat? 
How are we using that to our advantage with the crystals?  (I already may have shared that with the "doink" push of the crystals)

And finally -- If all of these do have a relation to one another, then why are we adding Magnesium to the crystal structure?
Romo
I feel like we are very close in our thinking, possibly I have not expressed myself very well.  I would like a better understanding of where you think we differ.
I think the better question would be "What relationship does energy have,-compared to temp?"
If you have not already looked at this, you might find it very interesting.
http://frankgermano.net/svp.htm
I do subscribe to your "doink" principle.
Great pictures, you are to be commended for your openness and sharing, Thanks
This is going to be a fun and interesting journey and I look forward to everyone sharing their results.
Brad S.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 29, 2011, 03:38:36 AM
I could not find any on taobao, but I did find some on aliexpress.

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/386739037-wholesale-3pcs-lot-Mist-Maker-Fogger-20mm-Ceramic-Disc-ceramic-disk-Replacement-bit-free-shipping-wholesalers.html

They are 20mm, but they dont say for DK-3. I dont know if they are the same or not. They are 20mm, but there are other 20mm discs on the http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html site that they state are only for certain other misters.

I sent Mainlandmart an email to get some more specs on the K006 replacement discs.

I received this response from Mainlandmart:

   Hello Rick,
 
   The frequency for our mist makers is 1.72 MHz.

   Best Regards
   Mico Inc.
   Tel:626-258-2928

   --- On Sun, 3/27/11, Rick wrote:

   From: Rick
   Subject: Item K006 20mm replacement discs
   To: mainlandmart@yahoo.com
   Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 10:36 AM
   What frequency do the K006 replacement discs operate?
 
   Thanks,
 
   Rick
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: petar113507 on March 30, 2011, 12:56:32 AM
====================================
Allright, so funny story.  I slept last night with my computer on -- I crashed before I posted this, so my bad on the late post.  In an odd turn of events, when I woke up this morning, I poked around a little bit, and found this little bit:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pssa.2210160149/abstract?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+disrupted+2nd+Apr+from+10-12+BST+for+monthly+maintenance

It's cool, because this was one of the first articles I looked at this morning, and it seemed to deposit lead crystals in thin films.  Timing, in letting the solution sit, would determine the length the crystal film deposited.

Lead oxide:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=5093446
Describes lead oxide crystals grown by sodium hydroxide, at high pressure, using "hydrothermal techniques".  So, they're using some kind of "hot water" techniqe to deposit the lead.  This is straight from the summary -- at the very least, this is a way to get information about potential production methods.

Seems to be a similar "wet/liquid" deposit-ing techniqe.

This is the secondary process seems much easier, and I am currently investigating what would be a solution which would make either (lead sulphide/oxide) dissolveable.  I am investigating this, in hopes that you will contribute a little more information where I am missing it about the general guidelines of the procedure.  If not, I understand that you do not wish to disclose information before we are ready to work with it.
========================

I am only sharing what I know, and my speculations about the upcomming project.
That is just it -- speculations so far.  I hope this informs you, or gets you to think a little bit about this stuff.  I definitely think it is worth it to at least invent the time to consider it as a possibillity.

The tangent: Epitaxial Lead Sulfide crystal Photovoltaic:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=614&prmdo=1&q=epitaxial+lead+sulfide+crystal+photovoltaic&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epitaxy

Quote from:
Epitaxy refers to the method of depositing a monocrystalline film on a monocrystalline substrate. The deposited film is denoted as epitaxial film or epitaxial layer. The term epitaxy comes from the Greek roots epi, meaning "above", and taxis, meaning "in ordered manner". It can be translated "to arrange upon".

Epitaxial films may be grown from gaseous or liquid precursors. Because the substrate acts as a seed crystal, the deposited film takes on a lattice structure and orientation identical to those of the substrate. This is different from other thin-film deposition methods which deposit polycrystalline or amorphous films, even on single-crystal substrates. If a film is deposited on a substrate of the same composition, the process is called homoepitaxy; otherwise it is called heteroepitaxy.

From this, we'd need to lay down very thin layers of the lead sulphide to grow the microcrystals.  I would assume that we would calculate the size of crystals by the timing of the vapor.

Powerme, How do you calculate the exact size of the crystal?  I understand that smaller crystal resonates at a faster frequency -- but I do not know how to calculate what frequency a crystal will resonate at, given its size.  Is this a function of its geometry(crystal shape?), or atomic makeup (matierals used)?  At the very least, where can I find this kind of information?

As a note I know lead sulphide can be cross-searched, near interchange-ably with "galena".  This is probably what tesla might have played with this "back in his day".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galena
Quote from:
Galena is a semiconductor with a small bandgap of about 0.4 eV which found use in early wireless communication systems. For example, it was used as the crystal in crystal radio sets, in which it was used as a point-contact diode to detect the radio signals. The galena crystal was used with a safety pin or similar sharp wire, which was known as a "cat's whisker".

the "small bandgap" is describing a property of lead to "resonate at a wide range of frequencies"

What I find interesting, is that you mention using different chemicals interchangeably to create the same effect. 
I have seen a lot of papers on Zinc oxide, and Zinc sulphide -- effectively in thin crystal layers, which are also photoelectric.  I note this, because we are using similar crystals for pizeo-electrics.  What properties of the

"Natural lead = galena"
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1951AuSRA...4..569L

This page is also very interesting.  It gave me a little more information about "the cat's whisker".  Also, it reviews thermo-electric efffect (think about the wavelength -- Infa-red).

"This is not taught in school" -- I asked some professors, and they actually did not help me with even finding useful tangents, or information about this stuff.  Whatever it is -- books, and internet have been my two sources so far in investigating what I could.

A treatise on chemistry tells a little bit about the preperation of Lead oxide and Lead sulphate -- neither appear to be in crystaline form, and were described to be a byproduct/waste.  Otherwise, some different ways to manapulate the lead industrially.
Lead oxide (pg 284), grew in crystaline form on the positive anode due to a galvanic current. 
I am not sure if this is actually "growing" a crystal, or if it is electroplating the lead form in the solution.

"this knowledge is not new nor exotic, Photovoltaic effect of Lead Sulfide was first disclosed in 1904"

When I look at how we would produce lead oxide, or sulphide "today" --
http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2010/CC/b926176a

Lead sulphide:
http://iopscience.iop.org/0022-3727/38/12/023
Basically is teling us the same thing -- lead sulphide is photo-voltaic.

This patent was one of the most informative:
http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT3716424&id=EqU4AAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=lead+sulphide+photovoltaic&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=false

In a nutshell -- I've posted the most useful links I've found -- overall, from what I have gleaned from all these processes -- in order to finely control the growth of the crystals -- I think I'd have to control the ammount of vapor, to control the size of the crystaline film over the stuff I was growing it on.

This would be the option with a bunch of fancy equipment -- and I've got a hunch there is an easier way.

This post is winding down, and Hence I have my questions about the process.  We need lead, sulphur, and some way to deposit it.  If I could not purchase sulphur -- it is present in the air, or the seawater -- I could extract it myself if I had to.

I noted this about nitrogen/ammonia -- if I could not, for whatever reasons, get my hands on the stuff -- I might be able extract nitrogen from the air with a semi-permiable membrane, and store it with a small air compressor, and make ammonium myself.

I have recenly begun to look at things around me, for all of the potential uses they could have -- or walk through a junkyard and look at all the golden peices I can find for various projects.  It is effectively, looking for the ways in which the objects/parts are useful to me.

I don't have a vacuum chamber, or the vapor-depositive facillities available but could investigate this, if you were to say what we will need.  I am looking to work now, for it to pay off later.  Thank you for your help powerme.

==Romo

Thoughts anyone?  Any ideas, aside from the two procedure types?  How could you be making these things yourself? :)

Hope this gets the wheels turning in the right direction.
Title: Archived Files Update
Post by: Slovenia on March 30, 2011, 03:06:05 AM
I'm working on some new files for everyone. The pdf file compiled from all the
Power1 entries on OU got pretty big and cumbersome to be a useful document
anymore. It's still readable, but it's so big that it's hard to find the
master's stuff. There's just to much interference in there, so I decided to
make an easier version for myself and I will share it with everyone when it's
done. The new version will be comprised of all the threads dealing with Power1
information and broken into three distinct documents. The first will be a
compilation of all of Power 1's posts dealing with his device. The second will
deal with all Power1's post dealing with higher self and learning. The third,
will be a compilation of all of Romo's posts dealing with the Power1 device.
Romo is a very enthusiastic player and has added a lot of information that is
very interesting and useful to this project. Anyway, I just wanted to give you
a heads up. I'm still here but working on other things including this Power1
project.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on March 30, 2011, 05:51:33 AM
Hey Guys,

I ordered a CDI for my car with E3 plugs and eventually will make the krupa plugs.  I want to set that up and put just fogger transducers in a tank and pipe the fog by the exhaust to make steam and inject that into the motor to burn.
I did a bench experiment with plasma ignition awhile back.  Where I took a dirt devil steam cleaner and sprayed it over a modified spark plug.  The vapor would actually flare up and burn blue and orange in color.  The spark was so intense I eyes felt flash burned after word.  I am thinking I will explore this route and let you guys know.  Romo I am thinking you will continue working with different frequencies especially the lower ones which are said to separate water more efficiently and not damage crystals as quickly.  So I will have this system ready in case there is something you think of that you would like to test out.  I have heard just this system is 30 to 40% gains in mileage.  I need at least a good starting point way to save money for now and keep improving from there.  Thanks Solvenia for all your time in documenting!  Thank you power to be for your generosity.  I look forward to working with everyone here on this project and am still here even though I dont post all that often.

Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on March 31, 2011, 01:38:18 AM
@all
Food for thought – trying to figure out what material to affix your crystals to and your acoustic chamber – check out these two links and try to understand.
http://web.mit.edu/nanophotonics/projects/Dissertation_Shu.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance
Brad S

Edit - Ooops
I forgot to mention that these two links support Slovenia's idea of the egg shape acoustic horn. 
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 02:27:32 AM
Thanks for sharing this Brad.

@all
Food for thought – trying to figure out what material to affix your crystals to and your acoustic chamber – check out these two links and try to understand.
http://web.mit.edu/nanophotonics/projects/Dissertation_Shu.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance
Brad S
Title: (Power1 BOOK) A Treatise on Electricity & Magnetism by James Clerk Maxwell
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 03:35:52 AM
 A Treatise on Electricity & Magnetism by James Clerk Maxwell

I've been trying to wade through this recommended book of Power To Be.  It's a very good book with a lot of good stuff in it, but it's not like reading mystery who done it.  It's very serious in depth stuff that takes a lot of mulling around to get the gist of what is being said so you can start to make sense of it in your own mind.  Those guys in the 19 century were not idiots at all.  There's some very heavy duty principles being dealt with in that book.  From what I understand, there are some truths in this book that we need to understand to help us in the Power To Be Project.

Anyway, Power To Be said he can read 1000 words per minute and that's a lot of words for sure.  I speed read too but not that fast and this stuff is hard for me to speed read and get any level of comprehension that I'm aware of.  I do know that I've read all the Power To Be posts and dream think of them now and they are starting to flow together a lot better than they did when I was just reading and looking at them during the day.  This dream study is pretty interesting.  From what I gather, you can focus at the center of each page you are trying to read and turn the pages about every one to two seconds.  You have to be in a relaxed frame of mind.  So far, this method may put the information into my computer, but I'm so far unable to extract it.

Am I understanding this correctly Power To Be & Romo?  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 31, 2011, 03:38:05 AM
Thank you all for your continued efforts.

RAD,
You can oscillate those low cost transducers at your desired frequency. Please translate your search phrase to Chinese and search on taobao, you  can find many transducers there, some already tuned to our desired frequency. You can also find toroid and many other things there at low cost.

Superman,
Atomize your gasoline as well, someone is doing this with 200+ mpg

Romo,
I am trying hard to show you the way, I applaud your efforts but please learn to see with sincerity. Heat and brute force DC are medium paced waves that are wasteful, observe well and you will see. All matters observes the same law, control the binding force and elements will separate freely. Pay attention to your frequency, PbS lattices is best constructed cold.

I must not share the knowledge of Nature as One must earn their passage by learning to understanding. Entire populace were reduced before us due to ignorant inheritance and misuse of the great force.

@All,
There's free ebooks on Lucid Dream, the easiest way to your higher self. Many years ago, when I started to transform my reality, it starts with your physical body. I jog for miles in the early mornings when the dew is abundant, push yourself further and progress daily and you will be grown wiser with the life force. Your manifestation will be enhanced greatly. The breath will come to you naturally, break through the limiting barrier and the rest will be easy. Your body needs Natural elements to oscillate and tune to the Higher Realm.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 31, 2011, 04:09:44 AM
Hi The Power to Be,

Lucid dreams are a great source of inspiration and learning when mulling over a problem. I won't go into it here let's just say way back in high school I had a lot of time to practice. Dream it, Think it through, then Build it.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on March 31, 2011, 05:33:49 AM
Hi The Power to Be,

Lucid dreams are a great source of inspiration and learning when mulling over a problem. I won't go into it here let's just say way back in high school I had a lot of time to practice. Dream it, Think it through, then Build it.

Dreamthink,
Please do share your experience with us if you have the time. Tesla always visualize his creations in Dream like state, perfecting all components and their operations before he lays hand into physical creations. It is a very useful process, I at times also call in help from prior memories in learning the properties and working of things.

-------------------------------------------------------


Hey Slovenia,
Maxwell had only theorized Henry Cavendish's work, knowledge of the 18th century that was further adulterated and legalized causing our  current Reverse of wisdom as some have called  calls us the lost generations. My way of self learning is by speed reading, funny that I would finish a book and wait patiently for the mortal mind to finish absorption. I only pick out what makes sense.  There is a lot of dis-information and you need to avoid parroting.

The only way to understanding nature is to replicate those old experiments from the old books, wind many different coils, use many different elements, create effects such as ionization, high  electric winds with different geometries, spheres, needles, tubes etc. and observe the result. Transmute elements with chemistry, learn how oscillating waves governs the state of matters.

Nature is the opposite of what is taught, phases of elements such as Zinc and Lead are most occult kept secrecy, but one can easily learn by mere observation. There is no Law in Nature, what we use today in modern electronics are really stone age technology, entire circuits can be build easily at home just by controlling the phases of matters, complex nano structures and alloys are not so complex at all. But what is worse is that these enormous energy machine are also highly destructive un-creation  machines.


-------------------------------------------------------

@All
Ormus is an easy way of harvesting life force elements, use morning dew as your base but know that your extracted ormus must be purified by plants or better, fill and cap a half full glass bottle and place it in the ground. After many moons, you will find transmuted crystals that has been prepared all by Nature that is good for hum-man consumption.

Please see energy for what it really is, forget photon and the other jargons.

Good luck and have a nice day.
Title: Re: (Power1 BOOK) A Treatise on Electricity & Magnetism by James Clerk Maxwell
Post by: Liberty on March 31, 2011, 05:37:00 AM
A Treatise on Electricity & Magnetism by James Clerk Maxwell

I've been trying to wade through this recommended book of Power To Be.  It's a very good book with a lot of good stuff in it, but it's not like reading mystery who done it.  It's very serious in depth stuff that takes a lot of mulling around to get the gist of what is being said so you can start to make sense of it in your own mind.  Those guys in the 19 century were not idiots at all.  There's some very heavy duty principles being dealt with in that book.  From what I understand, there are some truths in this book that we need to understand to help us in the Power To Be Project.

Anyway, Power To Be said he can read 1000 words per minute and that's a lot of words for sure.  I speed read to but not that fast and this stuff is hard for me to speed read and get any level of comprehension that I'm aware of.  I do know that I've read all the Power To Be posts and dream think of them now and they are starting to flow together a lot better than they did when I was just reading and looking at them during the day.  This dream study is pretty interesting.  From what I gather, you can focus at the center of each page you are trying to read and turn the pages about every one to two seconds.  You have to be in a relaxed frame of mind.  So far, this method may put the information into my computer, but I'm so far unable to extract it.

Am I understanding this correctly Power To Be & Romo?  Thanks in advance.

This writing of Maxwell is an excellent hypothesis and gets you to think deeply about magnetics and how it might work.  However if you sift and filter through by setting aside all of the extreme mathematics and analyze the individual steps and assumptions during the thought process, that he puts math to, it is experimentally unproven and unsupported in some instances in my opinion. 

To his credit, he is really trying to understand how magnetics operate and wrote a very complex and elaborate paper to support his hypothesis with mathematics.
Title: Re: power1 to be in me - recommended book
Post by: oscar on March 31, 2011, 11:19:29 AM
A Treatise on Electricity & Magnetism by James Clerk Maxwell ....

According to the posting:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-2.html#post130120
the recommended book is not by Maxwell (who wrote a book with a similar title), but by George Carey Foster, Jules François Joubert, Edmund Atkinson. The recommended book is this one:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pvQ4AAAAMAAJ&q=Edmund+Atkinson&dq=Edmund+Atkinson

I can not read it on google, as I don't have a user-profile. So if anyone can upload it here or to some other file sharing service, please feel free ...
Title: Thanks Power To Be!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 11:58:05 AM
Thanks Power To Be!!  There's a lot of wonderful information in your post.


Thank you all for your continued efforts.

RAD,
You can oscillate those low cost transducers at your desired frequency. Please translate your search phrase to Chinese and search on taobao, you  can find many transducers there, some already tuned to our desired frequency. You can also find toroid and many other things there at low cost.

Superman,
Atomize your gasoline as well, someone is doing this with 200+ mpg

Romo,
I am trying hard to show you the way, I applaud your efforts but please learn to see with sincerity. Heat and brute force DC are medium paced waves that are wasteful, observe well and you will see. All matters observes the same law, control the binding force and elements will separate freely. Pay attention to your frequency, PbS lattices is best constructed cold.

I must not share the knowledge of Nature as One must earn their passage by learning to understanding. Entire populace were reduced before us due to ignorant inheritance and misuse of the great force.

@All,
There's free ebooks on Lucid Dream, the easiest way to your higher self. Many years ago, when I started to transform my reality, it starts with your physical body. I jog for miles in the early mornings when the dew is abundant, push yourself further and progress daily and you will be grown wiser with the life force. Your manifestation will be enhanced greatly. The breath will come to you naturally, break through the limiting barrier and the rest will be easy. Your body needs Natural elements to oscillate and tune to the Higher Realm.
Title: Re: power1 to be in me - recommended book
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 12:05:18 PM
Thanks Oscar.  I have both the book you name and the other one.  There were four books that Power To Be recommended and I was under the impression the James Clerk Maxwell book was one of them too.  The book you mentioned was definitely one he said to read too.  Maybe I made an error there.  Thanks for sharing with me.  Send me your e-mail in a pm and I'll glad you send you the book you request.

Thanks again for helping out!!


According to the posting:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-2.html#post130120
the recommended book is not by Maxwell (who wrote a book with a similar title), but by George Carey Foster, Jules François Joubert, Edmund Atkinson. The recommended book is this one:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pvQ4AAAAMAAJ&q=Edmund+Atkinson&dq=Edmund+Atkinson

I can not read it on google, as I don't have a user-profile. So if anyone can upload it here or to some other file sharing service, please feel free ...
Title: Thanks for 2nd Post!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 12:18:28 PM
Wow Power To Be, great stuff shared indeed.  Thanks for hanging in there with us all.  We are all on about thirty different channels and each of us is trying to grasp what you share in our own way.

This is the most exciting stuff I've heard of in 58 years of living!!

Dreamthink,
Please do share your experience with us if you have the time. Tesla always visualize his creations in Dream like state, perfecting all components and their operations before he lays hand into physical creations. It is a very useful process, I at times also call in help from prior memories in learning the properties and working of things.

-------------------------------------------------------


Hey Slovenia,
Maxwell had only theorized Henry Cavendish's work, knowledge of the 18th century that was further adulterated and legalized causing our  current Reverse of wisdom as some have called  calls us the lost generations. My way of self learning is by speed reading, funny that I would finish a book and wait patiently for the mortal mind to finish absorption. I only pick out what makes sense.  There is a lot of dis-information and you need to avoid parroting.

The only way to understanding nature is to replicate those old experiments from the old books, wind many different coils, use many different elements, create effects such as ionization, high  electric winds with different geometries, spheres, needles, tubes etc. and observe the result. Transmute elements with chemistry, learn how oscillating waves governs the state of matters.

Nature is the opposite of what is taught, phases of elements such as Zinc and Lead are most occult kept secrecy, but one can easily learn by mere observation. There is no Law in Nature, what we use today in modern electronics are really stone age technology, entire circuits can be build easily at home just by controlling the phases of matters, complex nano structures and alloys are not so complex at all. But what is worse is that these enormous energy machine are also highly destructive un-creation  machines.


-------------------------------------------------------

@All
Ormus is an easy way of harvesting life force elements, use morning dew as your base but know that your extracted ormus must be purified by plants or better, fill and cap a half full glass bottle and place it in the ground. After many moons, you will find transmuted crystals that has been prepared all by Nature that is good for hum-man consumption.

Please see energy for what it really is, forget photon and the other jargons.

Good luck and have a nice day.
Title: Re: power1 to be in me - recommended book
Post by: CompuTutor on March 31, 2011, 12:34:50 PM
I can not read it on google,
as I don't have a user-profile.

Click on the "Read On Your Device" on the main page:
http://books.google.com/books?id=pvQ4AAAAMAAJ&output=acs_help

Scroll to the bottom for "Download PDF":
http://books.google.com/books/download/Elementary_treatise_on_electricity_and_m.pdf?id=pvQ4AAAAMAAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U0dnVO1QKpSKZ0D_k8aKoKyLB4foA

It is 607 pages long, and is
13.7-MB (14,403,629-bytes)



If that fails for anyone, I put it here for everyone too:
http://rapidshare.com/files/455243090/Elementary_Treatise_on_Electricity_and_Magnistism_.pdf

As long as it gets downloaded within a 30-day period,
it will stay there until a 30-day lack of activity occurs...
Title: Thanks CompuTutor!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 12:48:08 PM
Thanks CompuTutor!!

Click on the "Read On Your Device" on the main page:
http://books.google.com/books?id=pvQ4AAAAMAAJ&output=acs_help

Scroll to the bottom for "Download PDF":
http://books.google.com/books/download/Elementary_treatise_on_electricity_and_m.pdf?id=pvQ4AAAAMAAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U0dnVO1QKpSKZ0D_k8aKoKyLB4foA

It is 607 pages long, and is
13.7-MB (14,403,629-bytes)



If that fails for anyone, I put it here for everyone too:
http://rapidshare.com/files/455243090/Elementary_Treatise_on_Electricity_and_Magnistism_.pdf

As long as it gets downloaded within a 30-day period,
it will stay there until a 30-day lack of activity occurs...
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on March 31, 2011, 03:33:27 PM
This link will get you in to where the ultrasonic transducers are on the Taobao site.
http://s.taobao.com/search?q=%B3%AC%C9%F9%BB%BB%C4%DC%C6%F7&s=40#J_FilterTabBar

1 Chinese Yuan Renminbi in US Dollars is 0.15237 for 2/20/2011

I'm not sure how I would go about making a purchase with U.S. Dollars. The Google translate, or the site does not do a very good job translating. I am not ready to make a purchase right now anyway, I have more testing to do with what I have first. I will be on vacation for a week with my family starting tomorrow. I will resume testing when I return.

Have a great week!  :)

Rick

Thanks Power to be for your help.
Title: Thanks for the Link!!
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 04:05:35 PM
Thanks Rick for going to the trouble of looking that link up for us!!
Title: Power To Be Early Post
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 05:00:11 PM
Hi Power To Be,

In one of your early posts either here or on Energetic, you mentioned that other before you had also tried to share with us.  Would you please give us some names so I can go back and research what they shared?  Thanks!!

P.S.:  It's hard to discus your posts with others without parroting.  I wake up now thinking of something you shared in one of your posts and then go back and study it again.  I'm excited about what you have shared and have been trying to develop interest in other also, but without to much success I feel.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Dream Think (Sharing)
Post by: Slovenia on March 31, 2011, 09:45:45 PM
Sharing My Experiences With Dream Think:
I'm still learning this, so I am no expert yet but I have seen some things any way. 

I try and get myself thoroughly relaxed before I go to bed, with nothing else troubling my mind.  Then, before trying to go to sleep, I close my eyes and think of all the Power To Be posts I can remember so far including the ones that I don't understand.  I try to get myself totally into a trance thinking of Power To Be and what he has posted.  Anyway, within five or less minutes I am fast asleep.  I wake up about five or six time a night, and each time this Power To Be project is on my mind.  Occasionally, I wake up with a specific problem on my mind.  So far, I don't have any answers to any major questions I might have, but the subject matter is starting to be organized in my mind really good.

This dream thinking really works.  I am going to soon try to apply it to problem solving.  I've downloaded four lucid dreaming books today and have to study them too.

P.S.:  If any of you have any ideas about how I can improve this experience, please share it.  Thanks.

Dreamthink,
Please do share your experience with us if you have the time. Tesla always visualize his creations in Dream like state, perfecting all components and their operations before he lays hand into physical creations. It is a very useful process, I at times also call in help from prior memories in learning the properties and working of things.
Title: Re: power1 to be in me - recommended book
Post by: CompuTutor on April 01, 2011, 01:08:33 AM
If that fails for anyone, I put it here for everyone too:
http://rapidshare.com/files/455243090/Elementary_Treatise_on_Electricity_and_Magnistism_.pdf

As long as it gets downloaded within a 30-day period,
it will stay there until a 30-day lack of activity occurs...


I posted this link to an online shared file server.

It was that RapidShare one.

I checked the file link today and found this:

"Unassigned file limit of 10 downloads reached."

They offer a thirty day inactivity deletion schedule,
that seems longer than other ones I thought,
and they don't require a sign-up to use it.

But ten downloads max makes it basically useless.



Can anyone suggest a better website for (FREE) sharing
that doesn't require a sign-up to use it ?

Thanks
Title: Re: power1 to be in me - recommended book
Post by: Slovenia on April 01, 2011, 02:32:39 AM
Hi CompuTutor,

I use Scribd but it also requires a sign up but it allows for any number of downloads.  Plus as an added perk you get to download some very serious books free.  I highly recommend it.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Can anyone suggest a better website for (FREE) sharing
that doesn't require a sign-up to use it ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: CompuTutor on April 01, 2011, 03:20:23 AM
Yes, I am aware of them, but I know this about them too.

They steal your uploads,
then force people to have to either pay to download,
or upload something themselves before they can download
what you uploaded to them meaning for it to be free for all.

I had it happen to me a while back,
I'll never trust them with anything again...



I'm currently awaiting return email with inactivity
and download count limitation clarifications
from these three hosting websites so far:
(Found via Google)

60-Days inactivity, unknown DL limits:
http://www.mediafire.com/faq.php#faq12

60-Days inactivity, 2-DL's per hour (?):
http://sharing.tuboodle.com/help/faq.php

Unknown inactivity limit, unknown DL limit:
http://www.mozillashare.com/faq.html



UPDATE:
email from MozillaShare indicates:
90-Day inactivity limit, NO DL limit,
Captcha entry, and a 60-Second delay.

So here goes a test trial with them instead:
"Elementary Treatise on Electricity and Magnistism .pdf"
13.7-MB (14,403,629-bytes)

Direct Link:
Elementary_Treatise_on_Electricity_and_Magnistism_.pdf - 13.7 Mb (http://www.mozillashare.com/ags2e1t0vt1o.html)

Download Page:
http://www.mozillashare.com/ags2e1t0vt1o.html

(Both seem to link to the same Captcha/60-Sec page...)


I have been checking thread to watch progress,
one thing I haven't seen mention though is this.

Try not to run your piezo ultrasonic element
without some kind of liquid as a load on it,
it will dramatically shorten It's life (Cracks).

Good luck to everyone, hoping for success.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on April 01, 2011, 06:14:38 AM
I don't think Im cut out for this crystal making stuff. I made the crystals, now I can't separate them. I'm thinking of just boiling off the ammonia now, my filters aren't good enough for the small crystals apparently.
Title: Dream Thinking (Update)
Post by: Slovenia on April 01, 2011, 02:51:03 PM
Well guys, this stuff really works.  I was studying about it most of yesterday, and so last night I experimented with it.  I went to bed in as relaxed a state as possible with my mind focused only on tranquil things like being at a beach playing with my Power To Be project.  I found myself in a dream like state all night.  I felt like I was a cloud flying about through the dark cosmos.  I, the cloud, was a strange color of blue.  I never felt that before.  It was a very tranquil cool relaxed state.  I felt like I was high on the laughing gas they give you at a dentist office.  Everything seemed so nice and happy.  I asked myself to focus on the Power To Be experiment, but nothing was going on there, so I tried something else.  I thought of an old movie I like to see now and then.  I asked myself what the names of the three main characters were.  I couldn't remember their names in my conscious mind.  I asked my unconscious mind their names twice and then drifted off to sleep again.  It was no time at all until all three names of the main characters of the movie were clear in my mind.  I came to the realization that the information has to be a known in the subconscious mind before you can extract it to the conscious mind.  There are  many unknowns in the Power To Be project, and so that must be why my mind isn't kicking those solutions out to me.  I need to read and study all the books Power To Be recommended and see if that makes a difference.  I'm pretty sure that these books hold  some pretty serious information for us.  Power To Be has given us a lot of hints.  I don't want to parrot anything here now.  I like to share stuff and if I can't repeat something Power To Be has said it's going to be hard for me to communicate but I don't want to make him unhappy with me either.
Title: FRC Post from Energetic Forum (Ultrasonic Gasoline Power1 Experiment)
Post by: Slovenia on April 01, 2011, 03:31:02 PM
Post #658

Jetijs Video

A very interesting video from jetijs using a fogger.

YouTube - ultrasonic gasoline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x1Po-C4W4k

FRC
Title: Jetijs Ultrasonic Gasoline Experiment
Post by: Slovenia on April 01, 2011, 03:40:22 PM
Background on Jetijs (Prolific Experimenter on Energetic Forum)

Jetijs is one of the top professional quality builders on Energetic Forum.  He's a very serious experimenter indeed  Anyway, he saw Power To Be's post on using transducers with gasoline and there you have it.  We need to stay in touch with him and see what he will share.  He's gone the gasoline route instead of the water route, but still that is very important to our project.  Most of us drive the gasoline cars.  He's from Latvia and the gasoline prices are prohibitive there.

Top View of Chamber:
http://i54.tinypic.com/aaka6a.png

Side View of His Chamber:
http://i56.tinypic.com/kedg29.png

Side View of Total Experiment:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2jaksh5.png
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Mike Sliver on April 01, 2011, 05:06:47 PM
Hello All,

I found this on a hacker site, chased down to this site

http://www.eng.rpi.edu/lemelson/finalist_lawry.cfm

Reason I mention it is that he is using ultrasonics , and a power at this time
50 watts... now, again I mention it because their might be some novel different type of circuitry or ideas he is working that might be of value to this
forum for the Pezoelectric or ultrasonics part.

Now their are many paragraphs I did not copy - paste in the event some might
think... " enough space used up or is this spam _ I think now" but the URL is
included to make your own decision on this.

Thanks

Mike Sliver
 
His Name is Tristan Lawry
Department of Electrical, Computer, and Systems Engineering

A High-Performance System for Wireless Transmission of Power and Data Through Solid Metallic Enclosures

Steel walls are no match for Tristan Lawry. The doctoral student at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute has developed and demonstrated an innovative new system that uses ultrasound to simultaneously transmit large quantities of data and power wirelessly through thick metal walls, like the hulls of ships and submarines.
Title: Thanks Mike Silver!!
Post by: Slovenia on April 01, 2011, 05:47:30 PM
Thanks Mike for sharing this!!

Hello All,

I found this on a hacker site, chased down to this site

http://www.eng.rpi.edu/lemelson/finalist_lawry.cfm

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on April 01, 2011, 06:28:03 PM
With the weekend almost upon us and some time to spend in the workshop, you might want to spend a little time on this site.  Easy read, several good pages, might give some good ideas.
http://www.keelytech.com/water.html
The picture is from the experimentors page and is "The Acoustic Turbine"
Have a good weekend all.
Brad S
Title: Thanks!!
Post by: Slovenia on April 01, 2011, 07:13:46 PM
Very cool site.  Thanks for sharing it!!

With the weekend almost upon us and some time to spend in the workshop, you might want to spend a little time on this site.  Easy read, several good pages, might give some good ideas.
http://www.keelytech.com/water.html
The picture is from the experimentors page and is "The Acoustic Turbine"
Have a good weekend all.
Brad S
Title: Re: Dream Think (Sharing)
Post by: b_rads on April 01, 2011, 07:56:23 PM
This dream thinking really works.  I am going to soon try to apply it to problem solving.  I've downloaded four lucid dreaming books today and have to study them too.

P.S.:  If any of you have any ideas about how I can improve this experience, please share it.  Thanks.
Slovenia,
Try this the next time you are ready to look for solutions to you questions.  Imagine yourself as a water molecule, your head is the “O” and your ears are the “H2”.  You are in the chamber, the sound is about to explode your head and you are moving around trying to escape the sound.  You bump into the electric fence and zap, you are disintegrated.  How was the fence built, did you have to pass through the fence or just bump into it?  How was the chamber arranged?  What was the fence made of?  By doing this, you can break down complex problems into simple (for you) solutions.  This is how I try to solve problems in my profession, only I do not have to sleep to get there.  Try-it, this does work.
Brad S
Title: Re: Dream Think (Sharing)
Post by: Slovenia on April 01, 2011, 09:02:06 PM
Brad,

Thanks for sharing this.  I'd like to know more about doing this during being awake.  Sounds terrific!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Slovenia,
Try this the next time you are ready to look for solutions to you questions.  Imagine yourself as a water molecule, your head is the “O” and your ears are the “H2”.  You are in the chamber, the sound is about to explode your head and you are moving around trying to escape the sound.  You bump into the electric fence and zap, you are disintegrated.  How was the fence built, did you have to pass through the fence or just bump into it?  How was the chamber arranged?  What was the fence made of?  By doing this, you can break down complex problems into simple (for you) solutions.  This is how I try to solve problems in my profession, only I do not have to sleep to get there.  Try-it, this does work.
Brad S
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on April 01, 2011, 10:36:50 PM
Hi Slovenia, The Power to Be,

Quote
If any of you have any ideas about how I can improve this experience, please share it.  Thanks.

Try to imagine a work table in front of you when you relax and focus. Put all the items that you need on it. Then mentally try to build from those pieces. If you have a hard time visualizing it then create a mental story of how you are moving and connecting pieces. Try to do this as you are going to bed for the night keep a note pad handy and just write or scribble any idea/dream that comes through no matter how strange it is. Usually you want to do it quick because it is easy to lose an idea if you don't write it or scribble it down.

I recently had dream imagery for a magnet motor that had magnets on fixed offset levers as a large beam with magnets spun around it would push these levers down which would push a offset magnet up behind magnets that were facing 90 degrees from the ones pushing the magnets down. As the magnet comes up it pushes the beam forward from the beams back facing magnets. I scribbled it down it looks quite interesting, whether this translates to reality is something to test. Dream sequences like these you want to capture.

In the early 90's I read about lucid dreaming when I was attending high school. The first book I read was Dr. Stephen Laberge's book on Lucid dreaming.
http://www.amazon.com/Lucid-Dreaming-Stephen-LaBerge/dp/0345333551

Now it took me a while to learn and find a technique that worked for me. One thing that will help you immensely is a dream journal, even if you write down just a couple words of a dream you are consciously making a effort recognizing subconscious imagery, which creates sort of a feedback loop for remembering dreams in the future. It doesn't have to be a novel. "I see a door, weird writing, woke up" I think that was my first entry and I usually scribble a image/map of what I see. The key is just acknowledging your subconscious to create that feedback/awareness loop. You will notice that as you keep a journal you will start to be able to recall more detail from your dreams.

My first true lucid dream was one that changed my whole perception of how amazing the human mind is, it was worth all the doubt that I would ever get it to work, trial and error testing leading up to it:

"I feel a cool wind to my back, spread before me is a endless sea of dunes with glimmering black sand. I look down to see individual grains of sand all slightly reflective and wavering. I look to the sky it is filled with the most vibrant sea of stars stretching all the way to the horizon."

I awoke quite stunned this dream I actually felt as if I was there. I had full awareness I was controlling the dream by looking where I wanted to look, it wasn't like some dreams where it feels like your watching a movie and don't have control or just some passing memory of remembering a dream the next morning. The idea that this entire reality with billions of grains of sand and stars could be generated by the mind and I was for the first time in control just floored me.

Memory and control is where you will notice lucid dreams. In a normal dream when you wake up you are just remembering events of the dream just like a movie. In a lucid dream you have conscious control and awareness of the memory as it is happening. There is a distinct difference of memory awareness, which is what I find most fascinating. Something that always boggles me is are you remembering the dream or are you controlling the memory of the remembered dream?

Lucid dreaming is like walking a balance beam to much control and you wake up, too little control you fall into normal sleep. You have to maintain a subdued observer type of control when following a dream. Like anything practice makes you better at staying in between the two states. We all have this ability, everyone dreams, you are only limited by your own self doubts. The worst that can happen is you fall asleep, just try again the next night. :)

Quote
I'd like to know more about doing this during being awake.

There is another way to do this while you are awake which is called conscious dreaming but it is something I toyed with but won't do again. It's just not healthy to bring subconscious imagery into waking reality.

Sorry for going off topic
Title: DreamThinkBuild Link
Post by: Slovenia on April 01, 2011, 11:40:13 PM
Hi DreamThinkBuild,

I appreciate your post.  I think this is important to our Power To Be project.  We don't have a lot of time according to Power To Be, and most of us don't know that much about this type of stuff he has presented, and we're trying to move quickly without all the book reading and/or understanding, so we need all the help we can get.  Power To Be was always talking about this knowledge innate to each of us that we needed to rely on.  He gave a lot of hints, but left a lot of information out too.  So, I for one am very happy that you posted this information.  I think some of the others are too.  We do need to move forward rapidly with this project. 

Thanks so much for sharing with us!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Hi Slovenia, The Power to Be,

Try to imagine a work table in front of you when you relax and focus. Put all the items that you need on it. Then mentally try to build from those pieces. If you have a hard time visualizing it then create a mental story of how you are moving and connecting pieces. Try to do this as you are going to bed for the night keep a note pad handy and just write or scribble any idea/dream that comes through no matter how strange it is. Usually you want to do it quick because it is easy to lose an idea if you don't write it or scribble it down.

Title: Re: Dream Think (Sharing)
Post by: Nrgaway on April 02, 2011, 08:06:25 AM
Brad,

Thanks for sharing this.  I'd like to know more about doing this during being awake.  Sounds terrific!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia,

I used to take Nada from Enada for chronic Fatigue Syndrome and had to stop taking it after a few weeks cause it was freaking me out since I was remembering ALL of my dreams.  It got really hard to remember what was reality and what was not (some things in dream seem real while others you can tell are not reality like flying around or turning your head and being in another place).

All my best thinking is done when I am sleeping!  I always get a lot accomplished by the time I wake up... complicated problems often make me wake up many times during the night but I usually have things sorted out and the answers to any question that I did not have the day before.  I have always had this ability though; not sure how to replicate it; it was interesting to me that not everyone was this way.

On another note, I just came across this thread and am interested in experimenting.  Just taking a few days to review the threads and read the recommended books.  For some reason I am really picking up on this stuff fast and understand most of what is need and going on.  I don't completely understand why I am understanding this stuff so quickly though.  I find this link to nature very interesting; something I have never thought of before, but now the 'flood gates' are open I am coming to understand things very quickly.  I am very cash poor at the moment but will help out where I can.

I also want to thank you so much for combining both forum threads together and creating the yahoo site.  That really helps for people like me stumbling into this thread.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on April 02, 2011, 10:49:47 AM
Sleep is the emancipation of the spirit after all. The best time to receive advice from those who love you and watch over you on the other side...

Best of luck to all of you!
Title: Re: Dream Think (Sharing)
Post by: Slovenia on April 02, 2011, 11:45:17 AM
Nrgaway,

Great to hear from you and thanks for your encouragement.  I'm very glad my efforts were of help to you.  I'm also very glad you are also willing to get involved and participate on this project with us.  We definitely need your help.  To many of our members are silent.  If you can help us connect all the dots Power To Be has given us, we have persons who can design very sound systems for all of us to share.    The problem for me is that I don't want to miss anything from Power To Be and he has shared a lot of tangents with us that I think are significant.  I think a lot of his information ties together directly while some of it sends us in a different direction.  He has also given us some very good hints on what to look for in the old books.  In his one post where he talks of winding many different coils and testing their qualities; when he talks about characteristics of elements changing when you put a certain vibration to them; and where he hints to some special uses and properties of zinc and lead.  It's all very good stuff and I think helps us focus in certain areas without having to completely read all three of those old books right now.  I think in time that we do need to read those old books in their complete entirety but for now that is greatly slowing down this project.

Thanks so much for coming forward and sharing with us.  If I can help you any way with regard to finding any Power To Be information that has already been posted, please e-mail or pm me.  I would like to help you get up to speed as fast as possible so you can help the rest of us understand how all this information ties together.  We need to show some great progress soon with regard to this project while Power To Be is still willing to share information with us. 

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia,

I used to take Nada from Enada for chronic Fatigue Syndrome and had to stop taking it after a few weeks cause it was freaking me out since I was remembering ALL of my dreams.  It got really hard to remember what was reality and what was not (some things in dream seem real while others you can tell are not reality like flying around or turning your head and being in another place).

All my best thinking is done when I am sleeping!  I always get a lot accomplished by the time I wake up... complicated problems often make me wake up many times during the night but I usually have things sorted out and the answers to any question that I did not have the day before.  I have always had this ability though; not sure how to replicate it; it was interesting to me that not everyone was this way.

On another note, I just came across this thread and am interested in experimenting.  Just taking a few days to review the threads and read the recommended books.  For some reason I am really picking up on this stuff fast and understand most of what is need and going on.  I don't completely understand why I am understanding this stuff so quickly though.  I find this link to nature very interesting; something I have never thought of before, but now the 'flood gates' are open I am coming to understand things very quickly.  I am very cash poor at the moment but will help out where I can.

I also want to thank you so much for combining both forum threads together and creating the yahoo site.  That really helps for people like me stumbling into this thread.
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on April 02, 2011, 11:48:15 AM
Thanks Super God.  If you have any other proven information gathering techniques that work for you please share them.

Sleep is the emancipation of the spirit after all. The best time to receive advice from those who love you and watch over you on the other side...

Best of luck to all of you!
Title: Special Archived Files Update
Post by: Slovenia on April 02, 2011, 05:33:33 PM
Well, I have been working on some special files for everyone.  One will contain all the Romo files regarding the Power To Be project and the other will contain all the Power1 files both from here and all those separate threads from Energetic Forum.  In time I'll take all the spiritual stuff and put it in it's own separate file, but it was taking to long to bring the files to you, so I decided to just bring them as two files and make some other changes later.

The Romo compilation is done but the Power To Be Compilation is almost done but not quite.  I'll try to have both of them posted by some time tomorrow.
Title: Re: Thanks
Post by: Super God on April 02, 2011, 09:01:50 PM
Here is a good excerpt for you guys, as this is directly related:

"In somnambulism the independence of the soul is more complete, and its functions are more developed, than in dreaming, and it has perceptions that it has not in dreaming, which is an imperfect somnambulism.

"In somnambulism, the spirit is entirely freed from the action of matter; the material organs, being in a sort of catalepsy, are no longer receptive of external impressions.

"This state most frequently occurs during sleep, because the spirit is then able to absent itself from the body which is given up to the repose that is indispensable to matter. When somnambulism occurs, it is because the spirit of the sleeper, intent upon doing something or other that requires the aid of his body, makes use of it in a manner analogous to that in which spirits make use of a table, or other material object, in producing the phenomena of physical manifestations, or of a human hand, in giving written communications. In the dreams of which a man is conscious, his organs, including those of memory, are beginning to awaken; and, as they only receive and transmit to the spirit imperfectly the impressions made on them by exterior objects or action, the spirit, who is then in a state of repose, only perceives these impressions through confused and often disconnected sensations, which, in many cases, are still further confused by being mingled with vague remembrances of his present life and anterior existences. It is easy, therefore, to understand why somnambulists do not remember their visions, and why the greater number of the dreams you remember have no rational meaning. I say the greater number, for it sometimes happens that dreams are the consequence of a precise remembrance of events that have occurred in one of your former lives, or even a sort of intuition of the future."
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Super God on April 02, 2011, 09:08:38 PM
Please excuse my wall of test, here is more on dreaming:

402. How can we ascertain the fact of a spirit's liberty during sleep?

"By dreams. Be very sure that, when his body is asleep, a spirit enjoys the use of faculties of which he is unconscious while his body is awake. He remembers the past, and sometimes foresees the future: he acquires more power, and is able to enter into communication with other spirits, either in this world or in some other.

"You often say, 'I have had a strange dream, a frightful dream, without any likeness to reality' You are mistaken in thinking it to be so; for it is often a reminiscence of places and things which you have seen in the past, or a foresight of those which you will see in another existence, or in this one at some future time. The body being torpid, the spirit tries to break his chain, and seeks, in the past or in the future, for the means of doing so. "Poor human beings! how little do you know of the commonest phenomena of your life! You fancy yourselves to be very learned, and you are puzzled by the most ordinary things. To questions that any child might ask, 'What do we do when we are asleep?' 'What are dreams?' you are incapable of replying.

"Sleep effects a partial freeing of the soul from the body. When you sleep, your spirit is, for the time being, in the state in which you will be after your death. The spirits who at death are promptly freed from matter are those who, during their life, have had what may be called intelligent sleep. Such persons, when they sleep, regain the society of other spirits superior to themselves. They go about with them, conversing with them, and gaining instruction from them; they even work, in the spirit-world, at undertakings which, on dying, they find already begun or completed. From this you see how little death should be dreaded, since, according to the saying of St. Paul, you 'die daily.'

"What we have just stated refers to spirits of an elevated degree of advancement. As for those of the common mass of men, who, after their death, remain for long hours in the state of confusion and uncertainty of which you have been told by such, they go, during sleep, into worlds of lower rank than the earth, to which they are drawn back by old affections, or by the attraction of pleasures still baser than those to which they are addicted in your world; visits in which they gather ideas still viler, more ignoble, and more mischievous than those which they had professed during their waking hours. And that which engenders sympathy in the earthly life is nothing else than the fact that you feel yourselves, on waking, affectionately attracted towards those with whom you have passed eight or nine hours of happiness or pleasure. On the other hand, the explanation of the invincible antipathies you sometimes feel for certain persons is also to be found in the intuitive knowledge you have thus acquired of the fact that those persons have another conscience than yours, because you know them without having previously seen them with your bodily eyes. It is this same fact, moreover, that explains the indifference of some people for others; they do not care to make new friends, because they know that they have others by whom they are loved and cherished. In a word, sleep has more influence than you think upon your life.

"Through the effects of sleep, incarnated spirits are always in connection with the spirit-world; and it is in consideration of this fact that spirits of a higher order consent, without much repugnance, to incarnate themselves among you. God has willed that, during their contact with vice, they may go forth and fortify themselves afresh at the source of rectitude, in order that they, who have come into your world to instruct others, may not fall into evil themselves. Sleep is the gate opened for them by God, that they may pass through it to their friends in the spirit-world; it is their recreation after labor, while awaiting the great deliverance, the final liberation, that will restore them to their true place.

"Dreams are the remembrance of what your spirit has seen during sleep; but you must remark that you do not always dream, because you do not always remember what you have seen, or all that you have seen. Your dreams do not always reflect the action of your soul in its full development; for they are often only the reflex of the confusion that accompanies your departure or your return, mingled with the vague remembrance of what you have done, or of what has occupied your thoughts, in your waking state. In what other way can you explain the absurd dreams which are dreamed by the wisest as by the silliest of mankind? Bad spirits, also, make use of dreams to torment weak and timid souls.

"You will see, ere long, the development of another kind of dream, a kind which is as ancient as the one you know, but one of which you are ignorant. The dream we allude to is that of Jeanne Darc,1 of Jacob, of the Jewish prophets, and of certain Hindu ascetics, a dream which is the remembrance of the soul's experiences while entirely freed from the body, the remembrance of the second life, of which I spoke just now.

"You should carefully endeavor to distinguish these two kinds of dreams among those which you are able to recall: unless you do this, you will be in danger of falling into contradictions and errors that would be prejudicial to your belief."
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Nrgaway on April 03, 2011, 12:23:23 AM
Is this what The Power to Be uses for transformer for transducer in able to control frequency?

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1239.msg17775#msg17775 (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1239.msg17775#msg17775)

Quote from URL above:
Quote
This is a neon power supply used in video...
I'm working on Tesla coil circuit to power a much larger cell.....
Here's a couple of links that will help everyone to build a working WFC.

Tesla Coil Cad
http://www.richardsplace.net/tesladownload.htm (http://www.richardsplace.net/tesladownload.htm)
This will allow you to plug your WFC capacitance in spot of top load or toroid to aid in building resonant transformers.

This is Andrija PUHARICH Water Decomposition by AC Electrolysis Circuit...
(Click link below to see image as I can not figure out how to embed it)
(http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/2fig1.jpg) (http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/2fig1.jpg)

And waveform
(Click link below to see image as I can not figure out how to embed it)
(http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1fig5.jpg) (http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1fig5.jpg)

Here's a link to the pulsing power supply needed to pull this off....

Eastern Voltage Research
Go here for Plasmasonic Instruction Manual (PDF)
http://www.easternvoltageresearch.com/datasheets/plasma2_manual.pdf (http://www.easternvoltageresearch.com/datasheets/plasma2_manual.pdf)

Features:
 
- Full-Bridge switching circuit for high power operation
- Configurable as pulsed SSTC or CW SSTC (Audio Modulation)
- Customizable Audio Filtering
- 10-Step LED Onboard VU Meter
- Connects directly to practically any audio source
- Operates from 50kHz to 350kHz
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Nrgaway on April 03, 2011, 12:55:19 AM
The Power To Be mentioned this article to read for reference in growing crystals:
http://nathan.instras.com/documentDB/paper-243.pdf (http://nathan.instras.com/documentDB/paper-243.pdf)

Within this article there seems to be another step in growing the crystals that appear to me that no one has mentioned before.  I am just wondering if it applies since we are using a different 'home based' approach to growing the crystals in the first place.

The following is the text I am referring to in the article:
Quote
...
2.2. Growth of ZnO nanorods

The ZnO nanoparticle colloids were directly dipped
into ITO substrates and dried at room temperature. Be-
fore growing nanorods, the nanostructured substrate was
under the heat treatment in dry air at 300 â—¦ C for 12 h
(Fig. 1(b)). Then ZnO nanostructured substrates were im-
mersed in equimolar of zinc nitrate (Zn(NO)3 ·6H2 O) and
methenamine (C6 H12 N4 ) aqueous solutions at 90 â—¦ C for
24 h to grow ZnO nanorods (Fig. 1(c)). Finally, the grown
ZnO nanorods on nanostructured substrates was thoroughly
washed with deionized water and allowed drying in air at
room temperature.
..
Title: pdf article on crystals
Post by: Slovenia on April 03, 2011, 01:29:51 AM
Thanks for sharing that information.

I downloaded that article early on, but there was so much other stuff to read I never got around to reading it.  I remember early on that Power To Be made mention of a chemical that needed to be used in the process and that referenced chemical was not in the recipe that our guys were working with.  Maybe we are missing a step in our zinc crystal fabrication. 

The Power To Be mentioned this article to read for reference in growing crystals:
http://nathan.instras.com/documentDB/paper-243.pdf (http://nathan.instras.com/documentDB/paper-243.pdf)

Within this article there seems to be another step in growing the crystals that appear to me that no one has mentioned before.  I am just wondering if it applies since we are using a different 'home based' approach to growing the crystals in the first place.

The following is the text I am referring to in the article:
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Nrgaway on April 03, 2011, 02:04:43 AM
Here's another observation... hope you people aren't getting sick of my posts, but I also think this point should be clarified.

Originally 'The Power To Be' indicated we could just drop the crystals directly in the water.  Other posts seem to indicate people moving to attach the crystals to bowls, plates etc, which I took as the crystals would not be suspended in the water.

According to the following news article, the crystals must be submerged in water:
http://www.energyboom.com/emerging/piezo-crystals-harnessing-sound-waves-generate-fuel (http://www.energyboom.com/emerging/piezo-crystals-harnessing-sound-waves-generate-fuel)

Quote
Scientists at the University of Wisconsin-Madison may have discovered a new, somewhat strange way to efficiently produce hydrogen fuel without the need for "dirty" catalysts like oil.

The new ingredients: water submersion and noise pollution.

The team has made piezoelectric crystals of zinc oxide that, when immersed in water, absorb vibrations and develop areas of strong negative and positive charge. These charges rip apart nearby water molecules, releasing hydrogen and oxygen gas.

"This is like a free lunch," says lead researcher Huifang Xu. "You are getting energy from the environment just like solar cells capture energy from the sun."

Hydrogen fuel being the greenest around, but sadly void of any efficient means of extraction.

What The Heck Are Piezoelectric Crystals?

Piezoelectricity is the ability of some materials (notably crystals and certain ceramics, including bone) to generate an electric field or electric potential in response to applied mechanical stress.

The effect is closely related to a change of polarization density within the material's volume. If the material is not short-circuited, the applied stress induces a voltage across the material.

The word is derived from the Greek piezo or piezein, which means to squeeze or press.

What Makes These New Crystals Different?

Xu and colleagues generate hydrogen using a new variation on piezoelectric crystals.

The new crystals are designed to be submerged, so the charge they generate instead pulls apart water molecules to release hydrogen and oxygen gas, a mechanism Xu's team calls the piezoelectrochemical effect.

By submerging a new type of zinc oxide crystal in water, the scientists claim to be able to harvest hydrogen using vibrations from passing traffic and crashing waves.

And Just How Efficient Is This Process?

Well, it's better than the old way, but not necessarily a home run. Xu says that lab tests suggested the material can convert 18 per cent of the energy it absorbs from vibration into energy locked up in hydrogen gas, which can be released by burning.

Conventional piezoelectric materials are not as efficient at converting vibrations into electricity, and typically achieve around a 10 percent conversion rate.

Something new and cool under the sun, which just might cause a momentary consideration for the unbearable noise of morning traffic.

Sources: New Scientist and Inhabitat
Title: Another Player in The Game
Post by: Slovenia on April 03, 2011, 03:46:39 AM
It's great to have another player in the game.  Power To Be has given us a lot of information to chew on and we need to sort it all out properly.  Thanks again for sharing!!

Here's another observation... hope you people aren't getting sick of my posts, but I also think this point should be clarified.

Originally 'The Power To Be' indicated we could just drop the crystals directly in the water.  Other posts seem to indicate people moving to attach the crystals to bowls, plates etc, which I took as the crystals would not be suspended in the water.

According to the following news article, the crystals must be submerged in water:
http://www.energyboom.com/emerging/piezo-crystals-harnessing-sound-waves-generate-fuel (http://www.energyboom.com/emerging/piezo-crystals-harnessing-sound-waves-generate-fuel)
Title: zinc crystals
Post by: Slovenia on April 03, 2011, 03:57:46 AM
Originally Power To Be wanted us to house the crystals in an envelope.  Later he said to just put them in the water.  I think he just wanted us to jump in there and see how effective the crystals were when used in the equation.  I think folks were taking to long to get their envelopes and get on with their experimentation and he was trying to get them to experiment quickly and see how impressive the addition of the crystals was.  He said later that we needed to decide how to adhere the crystals to a surface.  He said that there were many ways to do this and that we needed to find a suitable way to do that.  He later said that he attached his crystals to a rigid structure while some attached theirs to a flexible structure.  He never mentioned what structure he was referring to.  I jumped to a conclusion that maybe it was the inner surface of the bowl, but I have since changed my mind about that.  I think that the acoustical properties of the brass bowl would be adversely affected if the inner part was coated with the crystals.  I'm more inclined now to find some sort of envelope arrangement for my crystals and have it affixed to the side of the cell beneath the water.  I may affix my envelopes to the bottom of the cell around the transducers.  The brass acoustical horn will ring out and be deflected back into the water by the resonating brass bowl.  Therefore, the envelopes would house the crystals and keep them from going all over the place and possibly being lost and also perfectly position them where they will be a good target from waves being deflected back from the resonating brass bowls.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this and don't know if I'm right or wrong, but it seems like a good idea.
Title: Mechanism for Direct-Water-Splitting Via Piezoelectrochemical Effect
Post by: Nrgaway on April 03, 2011, 04:05:00 AM
Mechanism for Direct-Water-Splitting Via Piezoelectrochemical Effect Papers
Inventors:     Xu; Huifang; (Madison, WI) ; Hong; Kuang-Sheng; (Madison, WI) ; Li; Xiaochun; (Madison, WI)
http://www.rexresearch.com/xu/xu.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/xu/xu.htm)

I have provided a link (http://www.rexresearch.com/xu/xu.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/xu/xu.htm)) to several articles written about and by Huifang Xu.  There is also the paper submitted to 'The Journal of Physical Chemistry Letters' (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jz100027t (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jz100027t) and patent application within the link.  There is a ton of valuable information in here that should help us.  In particular I will include a few excerpts.

Quote
[0127] 3. ZnO Fibers

[0128] A hydrothermal method was used to synthesize ZnO fibers (FIGS. 27-29). Hexamethylenetetramine (C.sub.6H.sub.12N.sub.4) and zinc nitrate hexahydrate (Zn(NO.sub.3).sub.2.6H.sub.2O) precursor solutions were mixed together (1:1 molar ratio) in Teflon cup with 60% capacity followed by magnetically stirring in 15 min. The mixture was then sealed tightly in a stainless steel autoclave. The closed bomb was heated at 95.degree. C. for 48 hr. After that the bomb was cooled naturally to room temperature. The final products were washed with DI water and dried at room temperature.

[0129] Hydrogen Production from Water Using Ultrasonic Vibrations and Fibers of Piezoelectric Material

[0130] In support of the above theory, testing was done utilizing zinc oxide (ZnO) micro-fibers synthesized using the bottom-up method (i.e. hydrothermal synthesis method). Nano-fibers of quartz and other materials can be fabricated using photolithography, dry-cutting and other methods, some of which were discussed previously.

[0131] The micro-fibers were positioned in a pure water aqueous environment to which a suitable ultrasonic vibration generator was connected in order to direct ultrasonic vibrations at the fibers within the aqueous environment. An identical trial utilizing a similar aqueous environment without any ZnO micro-fibers was also conducted to provide a control for the experiment. Initially, the aqueous environments were left alone in order to measure any hydrogen production from the aqueous environments. This was done for an initial forty (40) minute time period with a suitable hydrogen gas detection device such as described previously used to detect any hydrogen produced by the micro-fiber containing and control aqueous systems. After the initial time period, the ultrasonic vibration generator was activated to direct vibrations through the aqueous environment at the micro-fibers to deflect and "mechanically strain" the micro-fibers. The ultrasonic vibration generator was left active for a second forty (40) minute time period, and the hydrogen production from the system during this period was measured in the same manner as during the initial time period.

[0132] The results of this experiment are shown in FIG. 23, in which the evolution of H.sub.2 from pure water under an application of ultrasonic waves. As seen in the graph, during the initial forty (40) minute period where the ultrasonic vibration generator inactive, no hydrogen was produced in either the micro-fiber containing or control aqueous environments. Regarding the control system, no hydrogen production was detected during the second time period as well. However, when the ultrasonic generator was activated during the second time period in the system including the ZnO micro-fibers, rapid hydrogen production was obtained at an initial rate of 12.9 ppmh.sup.-1. This hydrogen gas production upon mechanical vibration of the ZnO micro-fibers in the aqueous environment agrees with the previous experiments, in which the strained ZnO powders were also active to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.

[0133] This is because, in a mechanism similar to that caused by the deformation of the structure of ZnO grains by ball milling, with regard to micro- and nano-scale fibers, ZnO fibers will build up electric potentials on the surface through deformation caused as a result in an aqueous environment, the mechanical or strain induced electric potential caused by the vibrations is transformed on the fibers into the chemical energy that is utilized to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gas.

[0134] The performance of direct water-splitting was further investigated showing the capabilities of ZnO fibers and BaTiO.sub.3 dendrites for scavenging vibrational waste energies from urban environments to generate hydrogen and oxygen gases from pure water. In order to first measure hydrogen gas production, ultrasonic wave vibrations at a frequency of 40 kHz using a Branson 5510-MT Ultrasonic Cleaner were applied to 5.0 mL of DI water in a Pyrex glass tube to determine the results of the piezoelectrochemical effect on as-synthesized ZnO fibers prepared on a Si (100) wafer of 1.times.1 cm.sup.2. The results for hydrogen gas production for the ZnO and the BaTiO.sub.3 are shown in FIGS. 30 and 32. A control experiment was also conducted with a cleaned Si wafer (1.times.1 cm.sup.2), without ZnO fibers in the system. In the first period when external vibration was used (0.about.40.sup.th minute), rapid hydrogen production was obtained at an initial rate of 3.4.times.10.sup.-3 ppm per second (ppm/s). The reaction cell was then evacuated at the 40.sup.th minute allowing a fresh run beginning at the 41.sup.st minute. Ultrasonic wave vibration was turned off at the beginning of the 41.sup.st minute, and the H.sub.2 production was measured again. It was found that hydrogen generation stopped when the ultrasonic wave vibration was turned off, leading to a negligible H.sub.2 production rate (<0.0001 ppm/s). This is similar to the control experiment (0.about.40.sup.th minute). A possible reason for the low gas concentration in the experiments without ultrasonic vibration or the control experiment could be due to contamination from air in the room.

[0135] The oxygen production performance of ZnO fibers via the piezoelectrochemical effect was also investigated. Oxygen concentration was measured in solution as a function of time as shown in FIG. 31. The response of the ZnO fibers to external vibrations was demonstrated by turning the ultrasonic wave in the system on and off. Consistent with the hydrogen production test, when ultrasonic waves were applied to ZnO fibers, oxygen concentration grew rapidly at an initial rate of 1.7.times.10.sup.-3 (ppm/s).Oxygen production stopped in the 41.sup.st to 80.sup.th minutes, corresponding to when the ultrasonic waves were turned off. ZnO fibers in DI water with applied ultrasonic vibrations evolved hydrogen and oxygen gases with a stoichiometric equivalent of H.sub.2O.sub.2=2:1. As with the previous experiments, no oxygen production was observed for the Si wafer control experiment.

[0136] Thus, based on the hydrogen and oxygen production tests utilizing the fibers of piezoelectric materials (e.g., ZnO, quartz, BaTiO.sub.3) in an aqueous environment, there is a direct conversion of mechanical energy (ultrasonic vibration) into the chemical energy (water splitting) as a result of the mechanical strain placed in the fibers. This is believed as a very important step forward to recycling the waste energy into alternative fuel in the future.

[0137] The micro- or nano-scale fibers of these materials create high levels of hydrogen production in the aqueous environment conditions as utilized in the above experiments, because the piezoelectric materials are more chemically stable, and able to generate greater electrical potential on the surface for further chemical reactions. In addition, quartz and certain other piezoelectric materials are much cheaper to obtain than other piezoelectric materials, further reducing the barriers to effective use of the piezoelectrochemical effect to generate useful energy from waste energy.

[0138] Similarly, when the external mechanical input is turned off, electrical charges will no longer accumulate on the fiber surface. Thus no sufficient potential can be used to reduce or oxidize the water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen, respectively. This is evidenced by the fact that we did not observe a rapid gas growth rate without vibration compared to the vibration mode. Our conclusions are that quartz, ZnO fibers and BaTiO.sub.3 dendrites show very good responses to the application of ultrasonic vibrations by generating H.sub.2 and O.sub.2 directly from water. Based on the gas production tests above, we have confirmed the piezoelectrochemical (PZEC) effect by using the quartz, ZnO and BaTiO.sub.3 fibers in wet conditions.

Title: Re: zinc crystals
Post by: Nrgaway on April 03, 2011, 04:32:21 AM
Originally Power To Be wanted us to house the crystals in an envelope.  Later he said to just put them in the water.  I think he just wanted us to jump in there and see how effective the crystals were when used in the equation.  I think folks were taking to long to get their envelopes and get on with their experimentation and he was trying to get them to experiment quickly and see how impressive the addition of the crystals was.  He said later that we needed to decide how to adhere the crystals to a surface.  He said that there were many ways to do this and that we needed to find a suitable way to do that.  He later said that he attached his crystals to a rigid structure while some attached theirs to a flexible structure.  He never mentioned what structure he was referring to.  I jumped to a conclusion that maybe it was the inner surface of the bowl, but I have since changed my mind about that.  I think that the acoustical properties of the brass bowl would be adversely affected if the inner part was coated with the crystals.  I'm more inclined now to find some sort of envelope arrangement for my crystals and have it affixed to the side of the cell beneath the water.  I may affix my envelopes to the bottom of the cell around the transducers.  The brass acoustical horn will ring out and be deflected back into the water by the resonating brass bowl.  Therefore, the envelopes would house the crystals and keep them from going all over the place and possibly being lost and also perfectly position them where they will be a good target from waves being deflected back from the resonating brass bowls.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this and don't know if I'm right or wrong, but it seems like a good idea.

For what it's worth, the link to the paper published in the post above contains very detailed procedures that can be used to replicate most parts of this experiment.  They used very simple devices for their chamber. (I do think this was only for the quartz part of the experiment, since paragraph 131 specifies that they used an aqueous environment for the ZnO portions.)

Quote
[0094] The experiments of water splitting to hydrogen and oxygen were carried out using sealed glass tube and samples in water under a standard condition. Glass tubes a half-inch diameter and one-foot in length were used for the experiment. The reaction cell (glass tube) was filled with nitrogen gas after adding samples of the piezoelectric material being tested. To monitor the hydrogen and oxygen concentration variation, the gas inside the cell was extracted by syringe and inject into the external hydrogen analyzer. Hydrogen and oxygen production kinetics were obtained by calculating the evolved hydrogen concentration as a function time.
Quote
[0131] The micro-fibers were positioned in a pure water aqueous environment to which a suitable ultrasonic vibration generator was connected in order to direct ultrasonic vibrations at the fibers within the aqueous environment. An identical trial utilizing a similar aqueous environment without any ZnO micro-fibers was also conducted to provide a control for the experiment. Initially, the aqueous environments were left alone in order to measure any hydrogen production from the aqueous environments. This was done for an initial forty (40) minute time period with a suitable hydrogen gas detection device such as described previously used to detect any hydrogen produced by the micro-fiber containing and control aqueous systems. After the initial time period, the ultrasonic vibration generator was activated to direct vibrations through the aqueous environment at the micro-fibers to deflect and "mechanically strain" the micro-fibers. The ultrasonic vibration generator was left active for a second forty (40) minute time period, and the hydrogen production from the system during this period was measured in the same manner as during the initial time period.

In the article written on http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/03/pzec-20100316.html (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/03/pzec-20100316.html) they also mention using barium titanate crystals as well.  It is also mentioned in the paper.

Quote
The researchers, led by UW-Madison geologist and crystal specialist Huifang Xu, grew nanocrystals of two common crystals, zinc oxide and barium titanate, and placed them in water. When pulsed with ultrasonic vibrations, the nanofibers flexed and catalyzed a chemical reaction to split the water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen.

Paragraph 134 specifies an additional test where they use a Branson 5510-MT Ultrasonic Cleaner @ 40 kHz where a crystal coated wafer was applied to 5 mL of distilled water in a Pyrex glass.

Quote
[0134] The performance of direct water-splitting was further investigated showing the capabilities of ZnO fibers and BaTiO.sub.3 dendrites for scavenging vibrational waste energies from urban environments to generate hydrogen and oxygen gases from pure water. In order to first measure hydrogen gas production, ultrasonic wave vibrations at a frequency of 40 kHz using a Branson 5510-MT Ultrasonic Cleaner were applied to 5.0 mL of DI water in a Pyrex glass tube to determine the results of the piezoelectrochemical effect on as-synthesized ZnO fibers prepared on a Si (100) wafer of 1.times.1 cm.sup.2. The results for hydrogen gas production for the ZnO and the BaTiO.sub.3 are shown in FIGS. 30 and 32. A control experiment was also conducted with a cleaned Si wafer (1.times.1 cm.sup.2), without ZnO fibers in the system. In the first period when external vibration was used (0.about.40.sup.th minute), rapid hydrogen production was obtained at an initial rate of 3.4.times.10.sup.-3 ppm per second (ppm/s). The reaction cell was then evacuated at the 40.sup.th minute allowing a fresh run beginning at the 41.sup.st minute. Ultrasonic wave vibration was turned off at the beginning of the 41.sup.st minute, and the H.sub.2 production was measured again. It was found that hydrogen generation stopped when the ultrasonic wave vibration was turned off, leading to a negligible H.sub.2 production rate (<0.0001 ppm/s). This is similar to the control experiment (0.about.40.sup.th minute). A possible reason for the low gas concentration in the experiments without ultrasonic vibration or the control experiment could be due to contamination from air in the room.

This is getting exciting!!!
Title: zinc Crystals
Post by: Slovenia on April 03, 2011, 01:26:05 PM
I went back and studied what Power To Be shared about the crystals in all of his posts on Energetic as well as OU and it became clear to me that his recipe for us regarding the zinc crystals was strictly a home brew kind of thing that would work.  He admitted that there were very complicated processes used for making the crystals but he was trying to come up with a recipe for the guy who wanted to make them in his home.  He also said that for best results you should use the technique in the referenced pdf.

Anyway, Power To Be was trying to help us!! 

Thanks Power To Be!!!!
Title: NEW Power To Be Archived Files Available
Post by: Slovenia on April 03, 2011, 03:21:22 PM
NEW Power To Be Archived Files Available

Well guys, I have a complete compilation of all of Power To Be's posts in one place now.  I have uploaded them to Scribd and you can download them at the following links:

Power To Be Complete Compilation of Posts to date:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52177573/Compilation-of-Power1-Posts

Romo Complete Compilation of Posts with regard to Power To Be Project:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52177635/Compilation-of-Romo-Posts

Title: Re: zinc Crystals
Post by: Nrgaway on April 03, 2011, 10:50:28 PM
I went back and studied what Power To Be shared about the crystals in all of his posts on Energetic as well as OU and it became clear to me that his recipe for us regarding the zinc crystals was strictly a home brew kind of thing that would work.  He admitted that there were very complicated processes used for making the crystals but he was trying to come up with a recipe for the guy who wanted to make them in his home.  He also said that for best results you should use the technique in the referenced pdf.

Anyway, Power To Be was trying to help us!! 

Thanks Power To Be!!!!

I am aware The Power To Be has provided a home based recipe.  This of course is awesome and allows us to run this experiment at home!

He also stated that some steps were purposely missing.  Thats why I posted the information above so we can try to figure out what was missing.  I think we have all the information we need now if the home grown crystals work. 

The whole process seems very simple and easy to understand.  I don't understand why you would need horns or bowls or even fancy ways to attach the crystals.  I think if the crystals are formed correctly you will get a reaction within 20 minutes that should be measurable. 

I am not saying you don't need the horns and bowls, I just say I don't understand why it would not work without them.  For that matter I figure the process should work (but maybe not as efficient) even if you are not tuned into the 'exact' / correct frequency based on my understanding of the piezoelectric effect..
Quote
When [the crystals are] pulsed with ultrasonic vibrations, the nanofibers flexed and catalyzed a chemical reaction to split the water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen.

When the fibers bend, asymmetries in their crystal structures generate positive and negative charges and create an electrical potential. This phenomenon, called the piezoelectric effect, has been well known in certain crystals for more than a century and is the driving force behind quartz clocks and other applications.

I applaud everyone's effort so far and am looking forward to a successful replication very soon. 
Thanks for listening.

Correction to post #411:
I mistakingly stated they used distilled water, I meant deionized water
Title: Should tranducer be imersed in water or below aqueous environment?
Post by: Nrgaway on April 03, 2011, 11:37:32 PM
What are people using for their pure water aqueous environment for testing the ZnO crystals hho production?

In particular are they submerging the transducer directly within the water solution or putting the container above above transducer like in the way the Branson 5510-MT Ultrasonic Cleaner works ?(manual url: http://www.bransonic.com/pdf/p214-142ra.pdf (http://www.bransonic.com/pdf/p214-142ra.pdf)).

I would think either way would work, but not having the transducer exposed to the water would likely make sure its life span is greater.  Maybe using a quartz flask / beaker would then contain the the deionized water and crystals for the test?
Title: Tap Water
Post by: Slovenia on April 04, 2011, 12:07:30 AM
Power To Be was saying to just use plain tap water.

What are people using for their pure water aqueous environment for testing the ZnO crystals hho production?

In particular are they submerging the transducer directly within the water solution or putting the container above above transducer like in the way the Branson 5510-MT Ultrasonic Cleaner works ?(manual url: http://www.bransonic.com/pdf/p214-142ra.pdf (http://www.bransonic.com/pdf/p214-142ra.pdf)).

I would think either way would work, but not having the transducer exposed to the water would likely make sure its life span is greater.  Maybe using a quartz flask / beaker would then contain the the deionized water and crystals for the test?
Title: Power1 Frequency Control
Post by: Slovenia on April 04, 2011, 04:25:41 AM
Recommended Circuit
(Pierce Circuit with subcomponents such as)

Frequency Control

March 23, 2011
from Power1 Post #266 @ OU
There are many ways to controlling frequency. It depends on what you are using,
I used 36 volts stepped up from 12v using  a simple toroid wound step up
transformer, the same one they use in JT light. My frequency was controlled
simply with a pot, rectifier, caps and a crystal transistor was only needed
component.
Components:

Pierce Circuit Configuration
36 volts stepped up from 12 volts using:
simple toroid wound step up transformer, the same one found in Joule Thief
light,
Pot,
Rectifier,
Caps, &
Crystal Transistor

P.S.:  Power To Be, I'm not trying to parrot or mimic you in any way.  I have great regard for you and would not maliciously say anything against you.  You have helped me a lot in many ways and I don't repay good with evil.

Favor Request of Electrical Person:  (Someone in this Group)
It would be nice if some electrical person ran down the components we need for a suitable Pierce Circuit to Power1 specs so the rest of us will have a guide to go by.  For instance, Power1 mentions caps as one of the components he used with no specifics as to the type of cap.  We need someone to lay out specific subcomponents for us so we can make a good Pierce Circuit for this project. 

Please help us out here electrical guru.  Thanks in advance!!

Title: Good news so far!
Post by: petar113507 on April 04, 2011, 09:17:30 AM
I need to run a few more tests on this during the following week -- but I got some basic results from this weekend.

So far, as I have been able to measure -- I could run about 40% mixture water/ 60% atomized gasoline without noticing a difference in power output -- the engine runs just the same.  This already represents a chunk of prove-able gas savings for me.  :)

The reason I need to do some more tests, is because when I get it a round 50-50%, I need to adjust the air/water ratio in th water mixture, in order to keep increase the percentage of the atomized water vs. gas.  I just need a little bit of fine tuning -- so it'll just be playing with the setup this next week.

What's nifty here, is this part of the project is the part without the crystals yet, and without the HHO addition to the atomized water.  I'm still waiting for the pizeo's to arrive this next week.  (Delayed shipment on pizeo :( ).

Thanks for more posting, and interest in the thread everyone!  I am restricting my posting to "progress only", so that I spend time working on things I need to do.  This is turning out to have good results so far.  I think those spark plugs allow it to run pretty well on the atomized gasoline/water mixtures.  Adding HHO to the mix will only improve efficencies from here on out. :)

Will post procedure of How I tested the increase/gain from the engine when I do it more in the following days.
 
Slovenia, thanks for archiving everything to make it more easily accessable to all.

Powerme, I will do the best I can to continue to learn.  Thank you for what you have shared already.

Goodnight all,
==Romo
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on April 04, 2011, 01:45:22 PM
Romo,

Thanks for sharing your update.  It's very exciting indeed. 

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Electronic Components Very Cheap (Electric Goldmine)
Post by: Slovenia on April 04, 2011, 04:15:13 PM
Electronic Components Very Cheap
http://www.goldmine-elec.com/

They may have some of the components we need for our Pierce Circuit and/or other applications.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on April 04, 2011, 04:30:14 PM
@all
Please do not read this post as being too negative towards this project.  Possible some of you can take my observed failures and solve this riddle.  I attempted several experiments this weekend (albeit my set-up is very micro).  See below.  I ran tests of plain water, and water with crystals placed 3 different ways, with and without brass in the mix, varying the water level and air pressure.  I observed no gas being formed in any of the above experiments.  Primarily using the patent application, much time is devoted to crystal placement, nanotube sizes, crystal spacing.  I do not believe at this time that experimenters like me have the current ability to replicate this process.  Just because I might think I have a fairly good understanding of cell phone technology doesn’t mean that I can go into the shop with a soldering iron and some Radio Shack components and build one.  I will no longer pursue crystal generated hydrogen.  With that said, I do have promising results to share.  @Superman9976 and @petar113507, I think you guys are on to something.  I put powdered carbon into the water and using my setup with a bubbler, I got some very nice sparks in the exhaust.  Not enough to create a continuous flame but encouraging nonetheless.  I think blending hydrocarbons with water at fogger frequency is very doable and within the scope of a home experimenter like myself.  Best of luck to all the rest of you pursuing the crystal route.
Brad S
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on April 04, 2011, 05:02:08 PM
Brad S,  thanks for your contributions to this project.  Looks like a nice setup you have started.  Was that an ultrasonic cleaner before you added to it?  Sorry it didn't do much on this attempt.  I had the feeling this was not going to be an easy first-build-it-and-go project.  Easy maybe for those who understand the process and already have it working.  But as we know after following things like SM's TPU some very smart people have been at that for years and still almost no success.  Hitting on the exact rights set of ingredients may seem easy if you are lucky enough to find it in the first few tries or if you have access to the info you need (whether that info is from your higher self or the Internet) but it doesn't always work out to be easy for a lot of people. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Cherryman on April 04, 2011, 07:14:12 PM
I was doing some knowledge refreshment.. and found something intresting on good old Wikipedia:

Quote
Crystodyne

In the early 1920s Russia, devastated by civil war, Oleg Losev was experimenting with applying voltage biases to various kinds of crystals for manufacture of radio detectors. The result was astonishing - with a zincyte (zinc oxide) crystal he gained amplification.[93][94] This was negative resistance phenomenon, decades before the tunnel diode. After the first experiments, he built regenerative and superheterodyne receivers, and even transmitters. However, this discovery was not supported by authorities and soon forgotten and no device was produced in mass quantity beyond a few examples for research. Crystodyne was produced in primitive conditions; it can be made in a rural forge - unlike vacuum tubes and modern semiconductor devices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: TEKTRON on April 04, 2011, 08:41:21 PM
Because you are having so much trouble trying to affix your crystals to the horn or whatever,
I have thought of a better way to approach the problem.  ;D
Scrap the idea of pregrowing the ZnO crystals.
Electro-plate your parts with zinc metal and simply heat them with a torch in open air or in a kiln at  reduced atmosphere. The zinc will oxidize and crystallize leaving crystals bonded in place.   
Have a look at the first page of the patent app. See the Efficiency/Fiber Length graph? :o
The larger the crystals, the higher the efficiency. Crystal growth size can be controlled by time and temperature.  Copper or steel seem like good candidates for the horn and other parts to be plated because of their high melting points. A vacuum kiln would be ideal to control the oxidation reaction and crystal growth.  ;D   
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on April 04, 2011, 08:53:48 PM
Wow Cherryman, good find!!  Thanks for sharing it.

I was doing some knowledge refreshment.. and found something intresting on good old Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: TEKTRON on April 05, 2011, 01:21:00 AM
 :-\ http://www.zinc.org/compounds/news/nanosprings_may_work_as_actuators_and_transducers_in_microsystems  8)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: TEKTRON on April 05, 2011, 01:25:08 AM
 :o http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/nanosprings.htm  :o
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on April 05, 2011, 02:08:38 AM
Genius is nothing but continued attention. The power of sustained attention grows with restrict distraction and solicitation. Great intellectual power turns on the ability to concentrate attention. To know how to exercise the attention, how to call forth it's full activity is the first success in learning. With strict attention, observation and learning, New knowledge is brought forth and the growth of extra sensory that develops into higher intelligence.

People, please for the sake of Man, please STOP.

What is a transducer?.
It is just a structured lattice of crystals tuned to a particular frequency. You can buy or make your own very easily.

So why would you waste your time and efforts wandering far off topic with distractions and speculations, all were working with here is Waves.

Learn to know what waves is, build different coils and observe. Learn the phases of elements, know their properties. Combine different element to achieve desired property. Everything has already been researched and published.

I've already told you to oscillate DC with a toroid, with your output AC, you amplify the frequency with a crystal. DC is pulsed at desired frequency/ oscillation, the lattice of the transducer crystals steps up oscillation and this allows atomizing of water into fine molecules. The induced waves is further amplified in oscillation to where the receiver ZnO crystals resonates to the state where the fine molecules of water ether bond is solidified allowing the release of H2 and O freely.

The same property applies to all matter, control the etheric bond and elements will separate freely. Metals, Rocks, Crystals etc. All you need is waves. Oscillating waves will convert elements to different phases, vapor, solid, molten etc, Do not use Heat as it is wasteful. You do not need to waster your time building electronic circuits, they are primitive, impulse and wasteful. You crystal and it's lattice is already complete build in tuning receiver/broadcasting circuits.

You do not need much to achieve this process, Really why do you people continue to CONFUSE yourselves?.




 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: TEKTRON on April 05, 2011, 02:25:51 AM
Genius is nothing but continued attention. The power of sustained attention grows with restrict distraction and solicitation. Great intellectual power turns on the ability to concentrate attention. To know how to exercise the attention, how to call forth it's full activity is the first success in learning. With strict attention, observation and learning, New knowledge is brought forth and the growth of extra sensory that develops into higher intelligence.

People, please for the sake of Man, please STOP.

What is a transducer?.
It is just a structured lattice of crystals tuned to a particular frequency. You can buy or make your own very easily.

So why would you waste your time and efforts wandering far off topic with distractions and speculations, all were working with here is Waves.

Learn to know what waves is, build different coils and observe. Learn the phases of elements, know their properties. Combine different element to achieve desired property. Everything has already been researched and published.

I've already told you to oscillate DC with a toroid, with your output AC, you amplify the frequency with a crystal. DC is pulsed at desired frequency/ oscillation, the lattice of the transducer crystals steps up oscillation and this allows atomizing of water into fine molecules. The induced waves is further amplified in oscillation to where the receiver ZnO crystals resonates to the state where the fine molecules of water ether bond is solidified allowing the release of H2 and O freely.

The same property applies to all matter, control the etheric bond and elements will separate freely. Metals, Rocks, Crystals etc. All you need is waves. Oscillating waves will convert elements to different phases, vapor, solid, molten etc, Do not use Heat as it is wasteful. You do not need to waster your time building electronic circuits, they are primitive, impulse and wasteful. You crystal and it's lattice is already complete build in tuning receiver/broadcasting circuits.

You do not need much to achieve this process, Really why do you people continue to CONFUSE yourselves?.


nanosprings are ZINC OXIDE CRYSTALS and they are also transducers.

Did you see the patent application that I spoke of in my previous post? Regarding the size of the crystal fibers in relationship to efficiency on page 1 ? BIGGER IS BETTER to a point. Here is the patent:


edit: spelling

edit again:  can't spell to save my life! LOL
Title: Good To See You Again Power To Be
Post by: Slovenia on April 05, 2011, 02:53:30 AM
Great to see you again Power To Be!!

Genius is nothing but continued attention. The power of sustained attention grows with restrict distraction and solicitation. Great intellectual power turns on the ability to concentrate attention. To know how to exercise the attention, how to call forth it's full activity is the first success in learning. With strict attention, observation and learning, New knowledge is brought forth and the growth of extra sensory that develops into higher intelligence.

People, please for the sake of Man, please STOP.

What is a transducer?.
It is just a structured lattice of crystals tuned to a particular frequency. You can buy or make your own very easily.

So why would you waste your time and efforts wandering far off topic with distractions and speculations, all were working with here is Waves.

Learn to know what waves is, build different coils and observe. Learn the phases of elements, know their properties. Combine different element to achieve desired property. Everything has already been researched and published.

I've already told you to oscillate DC with a toroid, with your output AC, you amplify the frequency with a crystal. DC is pulsed at desired frequency/ oscillation, the lattice of the transducer crystals steps up oscillation and this allows atomizing of water into fine molecules. The induced waves is further amplified in oscillation to where the receiver ZnO crystals resonates to the state where the fine molecules of water ether bond is solidified allowing the release of H2 and O freely.

The same property applies to all matter, control the etheric bond and elements will separate freely. Metals, Rocks, Crystals etc. All you need is waves. Oscillating waves will convert elements to different phases, vapor, solid, molten etc, Do not use Heat as it is wasteful. You do not need to waster your time building electronic circuits, they are primitive, impulse and wasteful. You crystal and it's lattice is already complete build in tuning receiver/broadcasting circuits.

You do not need much to achieve this process, Really why do you people continue to CONFUSE yourselves?.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on April 05, 2011, 05:36:07 AM
The induced waves is further amplified in oscillation to where the receiver ZnO crystals resonates to the state where the fine molecules of water ether bond is solidified allowing the release of H2 and O freely.
Here is a site selling the Crystal ZNO mounted on substrate.
Someone willing to shell out and remove the crystal making process from the puzzle.
http://www.mtixtl.com/crystalssubstratesa-z.aspx
Brad S
Title: FRC Post from Energetic Forum (April 4, 2011)
Post by: Slovenia on April 05, 2011, 12:53:14 PM
April 4, 2011
FRC

Interesting Quote with reference to Powerme
Posted on Bedini Earth Light about crystals.


QUOTE=Armagdn03;136492]My work lately has centered on macroscopic crystal building using the seed patterns described by Aaity Olsen. Work coincides with this page (though I have not finished reading through it).

Powerme alluded to some very important topics, however I think it is always very important to distill process to be simple and effective for the layman.

One of the primary things noted was wavelength of the "cosmic rays" and how to interface with them. Nano crystaline material need not be used for this purpose. In such a case the corpuscles act in tandem with an overtone which corresponds to the energy's they react with. (a bell will respond to stimulation which matches the resonant spectrum peaks). but this can be done on a planar geometry...

Consider electroplating. Thickness of layers can be controlled through adjustment of temperature of carier liquid, time of treatment, current, NON ELECTRON FLOW ELECTRIC FIELD GRADIENT, etc....The purpose?

Quarter wave cancellation, as used in thin film optics as anti reflective coatings.

Anti-Reflection Coatings

It just so happens that germanium is translucent to the infrared spectrum....ever see a germanium lens? Did you know you can electroplate this and MANY other materials, some require very high voltage may be required for low conductivity semi conductors.

Germanium Optical Components

Oxides are important why???? most salts have a cubic of parallel piped crystalline structure. Oxide layer thickness can also be controlled. electrically "charged" elements find their line of economy within salts, this is the "marriage" of equal and opposite elements from a proper periodic table. for example note the location of potassium and bromine in making a very stable salt sodium-bromide. (spanning octaves 6-7)(equal and opposite locations about a line of economy)

ever wonder why "orgone" accumulators use alternating layers of conductor and insulator? We see immediately perhaps capacitor.....but there is more to it....How do you make an electromagnetic check valve?

Ever wonder why the house of Nathan Stubbfield was so warm when they entered? two plates, parallel, carefully placed a purposeful distance apart, dissimilar metals (each chosen for a purpose), impedance (air gap) in-between. Similar concepts, different use (to create heat). Perhaps Peter Lindeamann would like to expand on this topic.

Enjoy your experimenting![/quote]

FRC
Title: Power To Be (IMPORTANT Post)
Post by: Slovenia on April 05, 2011, 01:05:11 PM
Power To Be sent us an important message in (Post #428) of today.

We are getting very close to understanding some things that we were never intended to know thanks to Power To Be.  These secrets have been kept from us by very powerful people.  That said, there are other things going on in the background.  Anyway, study his post carefully and come to your own conclusion of what he is trying to say.    DON'T MISS WHAT HE IS TELLING YOU!!!
Title: Power To Be (Archived Compilation of His Posts)
Post by: Slovenia on April 05, 2011, 01:20:36 PM
I just found a lost thread on Energetic Forum, "Plasma Effect - Cosmic Ray Amplification", which contained some important Power To Be information.  I added the lost thread to the Power To Be compilation file and updated the version on Scribd.

Link to Updated Version:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52177573/Compilation-of-Power1-Posts
Title: Compilation of Power To Be's Higher Self Posts
Post by: Slovenia on April 06, 2011, 01:05:59 AM
Compilation of Power To Be's Higher Self Posts

For those of you who are interested, I've put together a compilation of all of Power To Be's Higher Self posts.

Link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52367676/Power1-Higher-Self-Compilation
Title: PVC Tubing Cell Update
Post by: Slovenia on April 06, 2011, 01:24:05 AM
PVC Tubing Cell Update

I've been studying this really hard because I plan to use pvc for my cells.  I also plan on making a bunch of them once I have several good working prototypes, so I'm studying all sorts of options.  The diameter of my fogger is 1.5", so that would fit perfectly inside an end cap with an ID of 1.5".  The end cap would be attached via a stainless screw through it's center at the bottom of the cell.  You could either use a vertical application or a horizontal application.  I would cut down my end caps so they weren't quite as deep.  I plan to start with the vertical applications of the pvc tubing, and I'll try and have a picture of a setup for you tomorrow.  My camera battery is dead today so it has to be recharged.  Anyway, for my initial vertical application, I'm going to use 4" diameter tubing.  I'll use a 4" end cap for the bottom and glue it in place.  For the top of the cell, I'll use a sewer clean-out attachment.  The clean-out is an open ended end cap scenario with an opening for a threaded cap.  You teflon tape the threaded cap and you have an airtight seal inside the cell.  There is a square removal bracket on the outside of the threaded cap for quick removal of the cap.  I'll drill my outlet in the top of the end cap and a 1" opening should just fit through the dead center of the square in the cap.  Anyway, I'll try and have a pic for you tomorrow.  I'm trying to show Power To Be that I'm still alive and trying to get in motion with this project. 

I still have a lot of reading to do, but I have to get started now regardless of whether I have complete understanding of everything or not.
 
Title: 45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers
Post by: Slovenia on April 06, 2011, 04:08:38 AM
45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers

I found some 45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers in China.  I sent them a message inquiring about the transducers to find out price and how many would be the minimal order.  These are coming straight from China, so customs will probably get involved with these too.  I'll get back to you when I have all the information I requested. 
Title: Re: 45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers
Post by: altrez on April 06, 2011, 04:16:06 AM
45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers

I found some 45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers in China.  I sent them a message inquiring about the transducers to find out price and how many would be the minimal order.  These are coming straight from China, so customs will probably get involved with these too.  I'll get back to you when I have all the information I requested.

You are making this too hard. Look at what you want and find a different way to make it happen. Its so easy..

-Altrez
Title: Re: 45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers
Post by: Slovenia on April 06, 2011, 04:41:42 AM
Wow Altrez, I don't see it.  I'm very much outside my area of expertise, but I'm trying to catch up quickly.  Thanks for sharing!!

You are making this too hard. Look at what you want and find a different way to make it happen. Its so easy..

-Altrez
Title: Re: 45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers
Post by: altrez on April 06, 2011, 04:49:10 AM
Wow Altrez, I don't see it.  I'm very much outside my area of expertise, but I'm trying to catch up quickly.  Thanks for sharing!!

It wasn't until I started researching sono that my eyes were opened. I don't agree with everything power to be might say. However you need only look in the wave to understand the way it communicates. And it really does...Communicate. <--- that's a hint

-Altrez
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on April 06, 2011, 11:44:54 AM
Thanks for the tip Altrez.  I really appreciate it.

It wasn't until I started researching sono that my eyes were opened. I don't agree with everything power to be might say. However you need only look in the wave to understand the way it communicates. And it really does...Communicate. <--- that's a hint -Altrez

Title: Project is Alive and Well
Post by: Slovenia on April 07, 2011, 01:52:15 PM
This project is alive and well.  Things are just going on behind the scenes.  So, keep working on this project and Power To Be, please hang around.  Thanks!!
Title: 45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers
Post by: Slovenia on April 07, 2011, 04:48:21 PM
FYI:

I found a good source of 45 Khz ultrasonic cleaning transducers in mainland China.  They are complete assemblies and they will ship in small quantities for $15 US each plus shipping.  The company details are:

http://hainertec.en.alibaba.com/

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on April 07, 2011, 06:45:28 PM
Thanks Slovenia for finding that.  I'd probably be up for getting one or two depending on payment method.  Hopefully they can do PayPal or Google checkout. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 07, 2011, 07:57:40 PM
Hi e2matrix,

They only do Western Union Funds Transfer and the shipping is $61 for two units.  So, that puts a damper on those transducers.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Thanks Slovenia for finding that.  I'd probably be up for getting one or two depending on payment method.  Hopefully they can do PayPal or Google checkout.
Title: Parroting Scenario
Post by: Slovenia on April 07, 2011, 08:08:35 PM
Parroting Scenario
I've been repeating some of the great information I've turned up in the Power To Be posts, and Power To Be let me know I need to avoid parroting him.  Well guys, there is a wealth of knowledge in those posts and we all need to understand it,but I don't want to be seen as a parrot here.  We may need to set up a private website for serious builders, so we can mull over all of Power To Be's info amongst ourselves.  I just saw some more information I'd missed before in an old thread of Power To Be's on Energetic Forum.  You need to check out my latest compilation of all of Power To Be's posts.  It includes all the posts he ever made on Energetic Forum and OU in all the threads.  In my compilation, I have all the separate threads where he posted separated out individually for easier study.  Anyway, have a look at them.  He's got a lot of details there in many different places.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: geotrouvetout on April 07, 2011, 11:22:53 PM
Hi Slovenia,

Nice to see you still going on the project :)
A place for the piezo, http://www.steminc.com/SAMPLES_USA.asp?PZ_TYPE=PIEZO%20DISC , at the bottom of the page, a bit pricy ???

Geo ;)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 07, 2011, 11:30:32 PM
Nice to hear from you geo.

quote author=geotrouvetout link=topic=10388.msg280784#msg280784 date=1302211373]
Hi Slovenia,

Nice to see you still going on the project :)
A place for the piezo, http://www.steminc.com/SAMPLES_USA.asp?PZ_TYPE=PIEZO%20DISC , at the bottom of the page, a bit pricy ???

Geo ;)
[/quote]
Title: Slovenia Cells Update (Pics)
Post by: Slovenia on April 08, 2011, 05:31:43 PM
Well, I wanted to show some pics of what I have going.  I have a test cell with clear acrylic tube with end caps made from 1" cutting board material, polypropylene.  I also have my pvc working cell.  Nothing is actually working yet, because I'm working on my pierce oscillating circuit with joule thief light scenario and that's taking me some time to figure out exactly which specific components I want to use. 

Anyway, I wanted to publish this to show Power To Be that I'm not just parroting him but am actually trying to do this thing proper.

Thanks for all your help Power To Be!!!

Pictures of my test cell & work cell:
Test Cell
http://i55.tinypic.com/21ngn69.jpg

End View of Test Cell End Cap
I'm going to attach my end caps together with (4) 1/4" threaded rods with nuts and washers.
http://i56.tinypic.com/kdodtx.jpg

Side View of my Cell (Car Application)
http://i54.tinypic.com/2guzkoh.jpg

End View of PVC Working Cell
http://i56.tinypic.com/4vlco9.jpg

End View of Working Cell Without Cap In Place
http://i56.tinypic.com/2qbehs2.jpg

Side View of Working Cell to Show PVC Components
http://i53.tinypic.com/2ecohnp.jpg
Title: Cosmic Orgasm (Thanks Power To Be)
Post by: Slovenia on April 08, 2011, 11:18:29 PM
Thanks Power To Be for the heads up on the Cosmic Orgasm.  I just ran into your post on referencing that again today and looked it up and found a useful book on the subject by Barry Carter.  It's very cool stuff indeed.  Thanks again for giving me that lead!!

For the rest of you, if you are interested, Barry Carter has several books on Ormus and the Cosmic Orgasm.  It may sound a little weird, but I found it very enlightening.
Title: Joule Thief Light Replication
Post by: Slovenia on April 09, 2011, 03:01:13 PM
Here's a link to a Joule Thief Light weekend project for those of you who want to utilize the pierce circuit with jt light for frequency control like Power To Be did.

Joule Thief Light Replication
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/joulethief
Title: Need Help With Pierce Circuit & Joule Thief Light)
Post by: Slovenia on April 09, 2011, 10:56:20 PM
I'm trying to put together the pierce circuit and joule thief light right now.  I could use some help from some of you electrical guys.  I don't want to screw this project up and Power To Be wasn't specific about what specific subcomponents to get for our pierce circuit.  He did mention the various components, but tell us any specifics about those subcomponents.  Well, I need to know what specific types of subcomponents to get for the following:

Joule Thief Light (Specific Subcomponents):

transistor  (Okay, have specific value of 2n3904 for it)

diode
#1)  Which specific diode would be best suited for this project?

Rectifier?
Power To Be mentioned needing  rectifier too.  This must be the diode he is referring too here?
Cell
#2)  What specific battery would be best for the application?

Toroid
#3)  What specific size of ferrite ring should be used for optimum results?
#4)  What size of wire should be used when winding the toroid for optimum results?

Resistor  (okay, have specific value of 1K for it)

Pierce Circuit (Specific Subcomponents):

Crystal Oscillator = (X1)
#1)  Which specific crystal oscillator?

Resistor = (R1)
#2)  Which specific resistor?

NOT Gate = (U1)
#3)  Does it matter which NOT gate?

Capacitor = (C1) & (C2)
#4)  Which specific capacitors are needed?

#5)  What size wire would be best suited for this project?
Title: Re: Need Help With Pierce Circuit & Joule Thief Light)
Post by: altrez on April 10, 2011, 07:42:47 PM
I'm trying to put together the pierce circuit and joule thief light right now.  I could use some help from some of you electrical guys.  I don't want to screw this project up and Power To Be wasn't specific about what specific subcomponents to get for our pierce circuit.  He did mention the various components, but tell us any specifics about those subcomponents.  Well, I need to know what specific types of subcomponents to get for the following:

Joule Thief Light (Specific Subcomponents):

transistor  (Okay, have specific value of 2n3904 for it)

diode
#1)  Which specific diode would be best suited for this project?

Rectifier?
Power To Be mentioned needing  rectifier too.  This must be the diode he is referring too here?
Cell
#2)  What specific battery would be best for the application?

Toroid
#3)  What specific size of ferrite ring should be used for optimum results?
#4)  What size of wire should be used when winding the toroid for optimum results?

Resistor  (okay, have specific value of 1K for it)

Pierce Circuit (Specific Subcomponents):

Crystal Oscillator = (X1)
#1)  Which specific crystal oscillator?

Resistor = (R1)
#2)  Which specific resistor?

NOT Gate = (U1)
#3)  Does it matter which NOT gate?

Capacitor = (C1) & (C2)
#4)  Which specific capacitors are needed?

#5)  What size wire would be best suited for this project?

You really should use pot's in place of your resistors for the tuning it will make you life a lot easier. The JT is already everything you need n a circuit to replicate the correct frequency. Do you have a scope?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Need Help With Pierce Circuit & Joule Thief Light)
Post by: The Power To Be on April 10, 2011, 08:36:39 PM
You really should use pot's in place of your resistors for the tuning it will make you life a lot easier. The JT is already everything you need n a circuit to replicate the correct frequency. Do you have a scope?

-Altrez
Right, frequency is easily controlled with cap and coil, just like in TT, where each coil is tuned with matching cap. Horizontal arrangement produces consistent electrostatic effect needed.

I have produce amazing ionization of atomize water with a differential  exciter  running at over 5 milion cycles per second.

Altrez,
Did you look into zinc sulphide for your project?.
Title: Re: Need Help With Pierce Circuit & Joule Thief Light)
Post by: Slovenia on April 10, 2011, 08:38:38 PM
Hi Altrez,

Great to hear from you!!

I have a scope but I have no idea how to use it yet.  I knew I would be needing one so I got one.

I have the cheap pond fogger too, but the circuit is the only thing holding me up right now.  I have a donated lawn mower to test it on too.  So, we're trying to show Power To Be some progress. 

Thanks for the extra information.  I'm not an electrical guy at all and need help in this area.  The guy who usually helps me says this is all a waste of time and won't help me.  So, I need help from another source. 

Best Regards,
Slovenia

You really should use pot's in place of your resistors for the tuning it will make you life a lot easier. The JT is already everything you need n a circuit to replicate the correct frequency. Do you have a scope?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Need Help With Pierce Circuit & Joule Thief Light)
Post by: Slovenia on April 10, 2011, 08:50:51 PM
Thanks Power To Be!!  I didn't see your post.  You must have posted while I was writing back to Altrez.

Right, frequency is easily controlled with cap and coil, just like in TT, where each coil is tuned with matching cap. Horizontal arrangement produces consistent electrostatic effect needed.

I have produce amazing ionization of atomize water with a differential  exciter  running at over 5 milion cycles per second.

Altrez,
Did you look into zinc sulphide for your project?.
Title: Re: Need Help With Pierce Circuit & Joule Thief Light)
Post by: altrez on April 10, 2011, 10:35:14 PM
Right, frequency is easily controlled with cap and coil, just like in TT, where each coil is tuned with matching cap. Horizontal arrangement produces consistent electrostatic effect needed.

I have produce amazing ionization of atomize water with a differential  exciter  running at over 5 milion cycles per second.

Altrez,
Did you look into zinc sulphide for your project?.

Yes I have thank you for sharing. Its very interesting, the IR effects that is. It would seem that it could be used in a lot of different ways once someone understood wave lengths =) "Again sono opened my eyes to all this"

could this be a 24/7 power source? <-- that's a hint guys.

Question for the group as I am sure Power to be already understands this:

what happens when you take  a 1 THz frequency collection crystal an attach a ground potential to it?

-Altrez

EDIT: Again the way I figured this out was from the sono research. If you are having issues you can learn quit a lot from that area of study. It really helped me to understand why its important to see the waves.. Remember every thing communicates.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on April 10, 2011, 11:07:52 PM
ZnS anyone lol. Its really so easy once you understand. Everything that's needed is from nature. You just need to know what to look for ;)

-Altrez
Title: Thanks!!
Post by: Slovenia on April 11, 2011, 12:33:19 AM
Hi Altrez,

Great to see you posting again!!  Thanks for all the interesting tips too!!  I so appreciate them.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Yes I have thank you for sharing. Its very interesting, the IR effects that is. It would seem that it could be used in a lot of different ways once someone understood wave lengths =) "Again sono opened my eyes to all this"

could this be a 24/7 power source? <-- that's a hint guys.

Question for the group as I am sure Power to be already understands this:

what happens when you take  a 1 THz frequency collection crystal an attach a ground potential to it?

-Altrez

EDIT: Again the way I figured this out was from the sono research. If you are having issues you can learn quit a lot from that area of study. It really helped me to understand why its important to see the waves.. Remember every thing communicates.
Title: Sonoluminescence
Post by: RAD-HHO on April 11, 2011, 02:42:09 AM
Sonoluminescence How To Link

http://www.techmind.org/sl/
Title: Re: Sonoluminescence
Post by: Slovenia on April 11, 2011, 03:58:57 AM
Great to see you RAD-HHO!!


Sonoluminescence How To Link

http://www.techmind.org/sl/
Title: 40 Khz vs 45 Khz Transducers??
Post by: Slovenia on April 11, 2011, 04:03:53 AM
I know that Power To Be does use the 45 Khz transucers.  Since we have a good methodology of tuning the transducers, will the 40 Khz transducers work just as well as the 45 Khz, or should we really use the  45 Khz transducers?  The 45 Khz are more expensive and harder to find.  I found a good supplier but the shipping is cost prohibitive.  Thanks!!

P.S.:  I do want to only buy stuff that will work to optimum specs.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on April 11, 2011, 04:52:14 AM
Hi Solvenia,

I am inquiring that china company you posted about the transducers.  I will order them.  The 45khz at 35watts.  I have a question though.  Is the joule thief circuit the controller and power supply for the transducer?  That Mary at the company is asking what PCB I need and what are my power requirements after reading these last few pages on this thread I think I just realized I dont even need their PCBs for the transducer.  Am I correct?  It would certainly save me money and time.  If you are near my location I could drop one off or mail it to you I want to order 5 of them. 
If any of you were at the energy conference and remember the Mag heater.  In the past week I realized what it would take to build one and ordered the magnets and put them onto a plywood disc.  Wow it turns water to steam rapidly within a minute or two.  Whatever material you put in front of it, copper is my favorite, it heats up very rapidly with what? Magnetic waves! 
The E3 plugs I found out were resistor plugs they have a value of 4.9 Kohms so they do not work well with my CDI setup.  They put out a very weak spark normally and with the resistor its not much better.   I am using the AEM 4 channel off of amazon.com but I have found other resistorless plugs that will work and want to use copper plug wires with it.
Told you I was still around  ;D
Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 11, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
Hi Chris,

Nice to hear from you.  I do believe this project is the one we've all been waiting on.

I'm pretty sure that those transducers are the proper transducers we need, but as for the pcbs, I don't know anything about that.  I'm not an electrical guy, so we need to rely on some electrical guys info before you order five of those transducers.  We have a lot of electrical guys here but for some reason most of them are staying quiet.  We do need some one to speak up here electrical guys.

Mary's shipping was $61 for two transducers, so you might want to verify shipping before placing your order.  Anyway, hold off a bit and I'll try to get the particulars you requested.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Hi Solvenia,

I am inquiring that china company you posted about the transducers.  I will order them.  The 45khz at 35watts.  I have a question though.  Is the joule thief circuit the controller and power supply for the transducer?  That Mary at the company is asking what PCB I need and what are my power requirements after reading these last few pages on this thread I think I just realized I dont even need their PCBs for the transducer.  Am I correct?  It would certainly save me money and time.  If you are near my location I could drop one off or mail it to you I want to order 5 of them. 
If any of you were at the energy conference and remember the Mag heater.  In the past week I realized what it would take to build one and ordered the magnets and put them onto a plywood disc.  Wow it turns water to steam rapidly within a minute or two.  Whatever material you put in front of it, copper is my favorite, it heats up very rapidly with what? Magnetic waves! 
The E3 plugs I found out were resistor plugs they have a value of 4.9 Kohms so they do not work well with my CDI setup.  They put out a very weak spark normally and with the resistor its not much better.   I am using the AEM 4 channel off of amazon.com but I have found other resistorless plugs that will work and want to use copper plug wires with it.
Told you I was still around  ;D
Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Sprocket on April 11, 2011, 05:38:35 PM
Hi Solvenia,

I am inquiring that china company you posted about the transducers.  I will order them.  The 45khz at 35watts.  I have a question though.  Is the joule thief circuit the controller and power supply for the transducer?  That Mary at the company is asking what PCB I need and what are my power requirements after reading these last few pages on this thread I think I just realized I dont even need their PCBs for the transducer.  Am I correct?  It would certainly save me money and time.  If you are near my location I could drop one off or mail it to you I want to order 5 of them. 
If any of you were at the energy conference and remember the Mag heater.  In the past week I realized what it would take to build one and ordered the magnets and put them onto a plywood disc.  Wow it turns water to steam rapidly within a minute or two.  Whatever material you put in front of it, copper is my favorite, it heats up very rapidly with what? Magnetic waves! 
The E3 plugs I found out were resistor plugs they have a value of 4.9 Kohms so they do not work well with my CDI setup.  They put out a very weak spark normally and with the resistor its not much better.   I am using the AEM 4 channel off of amazon.com but I have found other resistorless plugs that will work and want to use copper plug wires with it.
Told you I was still around  ;D
Chris

Hi.  Do you have any further info on this 'Mag Heater'?  Sounds interesting!

Regarding power requirements for the transducers, I think 'Mary' was quite right in her inquiry.  35 * 2 Watts is a LOT - I built a meager 20W supply and was surprised with the amount of heat generated in several metres of resistance wire (14 Ohm total) I was using as a test-load.  And you are talking 70 Watts - good luck finding a Joule-thief to power those!  Also, having gutted a 30W humidifier for other things, I can attest that its power-supply is non-trivial.

I don't get why people are still going on about transducer frequency here - these things are already 'tuned' optimally to do the job in question, ie. produce a mist from water, at their rated frequency.  It's akin to buying an AM radio then trying to tune it to pick up UHF signals!

And unless I've missed the boat completely, there has still been no proof-of-concept that Zn0 crystals even work as described - why are people buying 'power-transducers', looking for power-electronics circuits to supply same, when the concept itself hasn't yet been shown to work?!?!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: b_rads on April 11, 2011, 09:09:02 PM
ZnS anyone lol. Its really so easy once you understand. Everything that's needed is from nature. You just need to know what to look for ;)

-Altrez
Altrez - you are absolutely correct, zinc is available in many foods(vegetables, oysters, beef, etc)
A few tidbits on ZnS
From wikipedia - zinc sulfide
Laboratory preparation It is easily produced by mixing an amount of zinc and sulfur and then igniting it. The result (after cooling) is zinc sulfide.
Zinc sulfide is insoluble in water and solutions containing Zn2+ readily precipitate ZnS in the presence of sulfide ions (e.g., from H2S).

Zn2+ + S2− → ZnS
This has formed the basis of a gravimetric analysis for zinc.[4]

It is produced in quantity from zinc oxide as a by-product of the synthesis of ammonia from methane.


Description from ebay product - search for zinc sulfide - $12.00 for 10grams.
Glow Powder
Glow in the Dark Pigment
16 Ounces
Did you ever wonder how Glow in the Dark things get that GLOW?
 
This is the stuff (Zinc Sulfide) that makes it happen! It is a non-hazardous powder that activates in almost any light source but is especially sensitive to the blue portion of the light spectrum.  It will glow when exposed to a regular incandescent light bulb, sunlight, blacklight or fluorescent light.  What a fun way to teach about energy.
You can turn regular putty into Glow in the Dark Putty by mixing a little of this Glow Powder into it.  Add this Glow Powder to paint and Presto! you have glow in the dark paint.  Add it to acrylic sealer or white glue.
@Sprocket.  I agree, why go superpower on the electronics until proof of concept has been achieved. If a large amount of hho is produced going with higher current electronics then off the shelf electronics should prove working model.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on April 12, 2011, 12:25:16 AM
The continuum of  the usual belief, brute force current will always produce heat, the desired effect is quite the opposite.

The toroid transforms DC into oscillating AC, slow waves will produce cold, cool your the lattice of your toroid and you achieve super-conduction if your alloy proper elements. Enclose your coil in ideal vacuum and you have perpetual power source.  Receiver ZnO produces rapid disruptive discharge via oscillation and you obtain unity transformation of waves, the desired electrostatic skin effect. No energy is wasted to heat.

You do not need to buy anything as you can harvest materials locally easily. I will not think for you, you need to learn on your own.

Heat is medium paced waves that is wasteful.

Good luck and have a nice day.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on April 12, 2011, 05:40:16 AM
Hi.  Do you have any further info on this 'Mag Heater'?  Sounds interesting!

Regarding power requirements for the transducers, I think 'Mary' was quite right in her inquiry.  35 * 2 Watts is a LOT - I built a meager 20W supply and was surprised with the amount of heat generated in several metres of resistance wire (14 Ohm total) I was using as a test-load.  And you are talking 70 Watts - good luck finding a Joule-thief to power those!  Also, having gutted a 30W humidifier for other things, I can attest that its power-supply is non-trivial.

I don't get why people are still going on about transducer frequency here - these things are already 'tuned' optimally to do the job in question, ie. produce a mist from water, at their rated frequency.  It's akin to buying an AM radio then trying to tune it to pick up UHF signals!

And unless I've missed the boat completely, there has still been no proof-of-concept that Zn0 crystals even work as described - why are people buying 'power-transducers', looking for power-electronics circuits to supply same, when the concept itself hasn't yet been shown to work?!?!

Yeah I do what did you wanna know?  I suggest looking at magnetic heater video on you tube too.  The magnets are alternating north south configuration the more the better and thinner metal stock works better than thick.  It puts more load on the motor which draws more current which makes it less efficient.

I am trying to replicate Power To Be's setup since he started out by saying 45khz transducers work best.  Someone from the past had efficient HHO production with the lower frequency like around 43khz which was said in earlier posts.  Something about acoustical resonance?  These transducers have a minimum power requirement is 15 watts and go up 2400 watts.  So by building this pierce circuit we will achieve acoustical resonance? And power it with toroid transformer?  Or just a joule thief circuit?  In the design book I have the pierce circuit they are showing goes down to 600 khz and up 30mhz.  They call it a Pierce Crystal Oscillator.  I'm pretty sure there's a design somewhere that will go down lower though. 

Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on April 12, 2011, 05:42:49 AM
I also wanted to ask has anyone had any success adhering their crystals to a substrate?  Or know what material to use for adhesion.  If it was posted earlier I probably missed it. 
Thanks
Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on April 12, 2011, 07:05:46 AM
I also wanted to ask has anyone had any success adhering their crystals to a substrate?  Or know what material to use for adhesion.  If it was posted earlier I probably missed it. 
Thanks
Chris

I've been thinking about silicone.  It's cheap as I get it around $3.00 for about a 10 ounce tube (like you use in a caulking gun) and that will go a long way.  You will normally have at least 10 to 20 minutes to get your crystals on to it before it starts setting up but the sooner the better.  Unlike most adhesives it does not get hard but remains flexible.  I think that may be good since anything that sets hard might limit the ability of the crystals to flex as we want them to do.  However I'm not sure silicone is ideal as it might have a somewhat dampening effect of vibration.  I'm mostly thinking out loud on this as I have not tried it yet. 

  I also want to mention the possibility of using two transducers at different frequencies if no one has yet found some readily available (and affordable) in the target frequency of 43-45 Khz.  If you have two transducers with a frequency difference between them of about 43-45 Khz then you will get the same effect and maybe even some extra benefit in harmonics. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on April 12, 2011, 07:05:56 AM
I also wanted to ask has anyone had any success adhering their crystals to a substrate?  Or know what material to use for adhesion.  If it was posted earlier I probably missed it. 
Thanks
Chris
Hey Chris,
What material have you chosen for your substrate?. By adhering crystals, it is the same as building a transducer but self build transducers is much superior as you can optimize it's properties,  there are many ways to adhere crystals.


@All
Thank you for your continued efforts
I must apologize for my anxious habits at times but there is so many fascinating things that awaits us.

@b_rads
glowing paint is fun but how about using ZnS  as a transducer to convert electromagnet waves into water   sonoluminescence.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: The Power To Be on April 12, 2011, 07:51:18 AM
I've been thinking about silicone.  It's cheap as I get it around $3.00 for about a 10 ounce tube (like you use in a caulking gun) and that will go a long way.  You will normally have at least 10 to 20 minutes to get your crystals on to it before it starts setting up but the sooner the better.  Unlike most adhesives it does not get hard but remains flexible.  I think that may be good since anything that sets hard might limit the ability of the crystals to flex as we want them to do.  However I'm not sure silicone is ideal as it might have a somewhat dampening effect of vibration.  I'm mostly thinking out loud on this as I have not tried it yet. 

  I also want to mention the possibility of using two transducers at different frequencies if no one has yet found some readily available (and affordable) in the target frequency of 43-45 Khz.  If you have two transducers with a frequency difference between them of about 43-45 Khz then you will get the same effect and maybe even some extra benefit in harmonics.
Great idea, it may work to lower frequency at same time with dampening effect, may be good for prototype.

You guys should spend more time building things, observe and just have fun. You creativity flows freely if you enjoy and have fun with your work.
Has anyone reduced Zamak?, you can build a simple HHO torch very cheap with common plumbing parts.  All materials that you need for this project can be recycled from common electrical waste. Use your stirrer to evenly mix metal solution for complete reduction.

Si is a great material to alloy in your toroid, you can refine common glass to semiconductor purity easily, even oxide silicon as well. You can make ceramic parts easily by refining common dirt that you walk on. You can build a small kiln with home made fire bricks, use HHO as your fuel. Utilize common materials such as Al, Zamak etc. Refine your own materials, you will learn a whole lot at the same time.

The secret of the Universe awaits you, please do proceed and learn to understand the forces of Nature, Together we can make a Change and set Man Free.



Title: Mary's 45 Khz Transducers
Post by: Slovenia on April 12, 2011, 12:49:38 PM
Hi Chris,

Great to see you are still around.   The 45 Khz transducers Mary has appear to be the right deal.  It looks like you are really getting into this now.  That's great!  The JT Circuit is to tune the transducer to the right frequency.  The power is increased by the transformers, but there also has to be an input voltage.  We're working with Pierce circuit in conjunction with the JT Circuit as I understand it.  I wouldn't mind getting one of those transducers from you if you are going to be ordering them.  Please PM me what the price would be including shipping and I'll get back to you if I want to do it.  Thanks!

Best Regards,
Slovenia   

Hi Solvenia,

I am inquiring that china company you posted about the transducers.  I will order them.  The 45khz at 35watts.  I have a question though.  Is the joule thief circuit the controller and power supply for the transducer?  That Mary at the company is asking what PCB I need and what are my power requirements after reading these last few pages on this thread I think I just realized I dont even need their PCBs for the transducer.  Am I correct?  It would certainly save me money and time.  If you are near my location I could drop one off or mail it to you I want to order 5 of them. 

Told you I was still around  ;D
Chris
Title: Archived Files Update
Post by: Slovenia on April 12, 2011, 01:15:17 PM
The updated archived file of this thread is available at Scribd.

This Thread Update:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/51189669/Practical-Method-for-Production-of-Water-Fuel-From-OU

Compilation of Power To Be Posts Update:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52177573/Compilation-of-Power1-Posts
Title: Activation of Human Brain
Post by: Slovenia on April 13, 2011, 01:06:06 PM

Sun Gazing
I've been doing a lot of research on how to activate the human brain since Power To Be got me interested in this area.  I discovered there are many ways to accomplish this.  One of the less complicated and straightforward methods is by Sun Gazing.  It has been practiced by many ancient civilizations for a long time but pretty much kept quiet in recent times.  It enables the brain to be activated to full capacity and also the pineal gland.  It also enables man to go without food for long extended periods of time.  One yogi hasn't eaten since 1995.  Anyway, for your pleasure and our research:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48567043/Sun-Gazing
Title: Luc's Circuit
Post by: Slovenia on April 13, 2011, 06:56:20 PM
I think this is very pertinent to the electric wind or ionic scenario.  Anyway, last night I woke up with this on my mind, so I want to share it in case it will help someone.

A post of Power To Be came to mind last night while I was sleeping.  I will refer you to the post so you can read it for yourself and come to your own conclusion.  Anyway, Power To Be brought up a point in Aaron's thread on Energetic, "Spark Plug 2".  He said that the Luc circuit was adequate to do the job. 

Anyway, please refer to that thread in my compilation of Power1 posts.  It is somewhere toward the back of the pdf file.

Share what you believe to be true.

Link to Updated "Compilation of Power1Posts":
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52177573/Compilation-of-Power1-Posts
Title: Thoughts
Post by: superman9976 on April 15, 2011, 04:44:17 AM
So I have been thinking for the past few days.  I keep thinking the substrate could be steel since zinc naturally adheres to bare steel.  I will try this idea this weekend.  It seems the transducer is where the crystals are adhered right on to the disc.  If I cut a circle from a piece of sheet metal grind off the coating and soak it in heated mason jar with my crystals and allow it to dry will this be a start to a transducer?  I could take silicone and put a few dabs on the disc and this would adhere to some solid material (like little stand offs) but still allow it to oscillate with the pierce crystal oscillator circuit attached to it.  Of course I would have to put the homemade transducer in a container and then attach a balloon to the opening of the container to capture the gas.  The faster the balloon fills the closer I get to the right oscillation. I should build this pierce circuit with adjustable capacitors inducers and resistors like a varible cap varactor diode or a pot.
Am I to figure a fundamental frequency with overtones?  Or does the fundamental frequency just automatically produce overtones? 
I will keep thinking about it and looking at my books.  I have a friend I can ask too.  But if you power to be can help in anyway like component selection?  This stuff is a lot to take in for a beginner.  I definitely want to learn about it though. 

I think the toroid transformer will be the easiest part but the pierce circuit will require the most work.  The build my own transducer idea is just out there I never considered building my own.  I am wondering where I would place the leads.  Is it a two wire setup or just one to get it to oscillate? 

The CDI project is taking a bit longer than I thought but definitely showing signs of progress.  I am coming up with ways for a good heat exchanger for my mag heater project. 

Solvenia I got a price on the transducers $11 ea. plus the shipping which is probably $61 like you said but I am holding off until I try to build some things for now.

Chris
Title: Power To Be Project Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 15, 2011, 10:04:56 PM
Anybody else working on this project?  I know there are two or three of us still kicking.  It would be helpful if we got our heads together and shared a little bit.  I'm really into it but don't have the electrical background, so it's a real slow progress for me.  I would like us to show Power To Be progress really soon of some fashion or other.  I'm used to working as a team on these projects, and I've put a lot of effort into this project to help others and keep it alive.  Of course, in helping others I also helped myself in the understanding aspect too but I was expecting a lot more from the group than I am seeing.  I'm having to find experts outside this forum to help me now and that's making me take a hard look at some things if you get my drift.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: eisnad karm on April 15, 2011, 10:26:04 PM
work on what exactly? have a read of the thread..there is no grand design
Mark
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 15, 2011, 10:52:06 PM
Mark,

That's the main problem.  Power To Be gave us many details but also left out some very important details such as specific components to use in our Pierce Circuit and Joule Thief Circuit.  This circuit is the main thing holding me back from providing a prototype for this group to see and improve on.  I need help with the circuit.  If I know the specific components to buy, I can build this circuit quickly.  I also need to know where to hook in the JT to the Pierce Circuit. 

I am in the process of getting some outside experts involved right now but might not be that willing to share my results with members of this forum if others don't step up soon and get involved.  Outside experts want money or they don't want you to waste their time.

So, what is your expertise?   

I am the author of all the Power To Be archived files.  There are many of them.

Regards,
Slovenia

work on what exactly? have a read of the thread..there is no grand design
Mark
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on April 16, 2011, 12:18:18 AM
Mark,

That's the main problem.  Power To Be gave us many details but also left out some very important details such as specific components to use in our Pierce Circuit and Joule Thief Circuit.  This circuit is the main thing holding me back from providing a prototype for this group to see and improve on.  I need help with the circuit.  If I know the specific components to buy, I can build this circuit quickly.  I also need to know where to hook in the JT to the Pierce Circuit. 

I am in the process of getting some outside experts involved right now but might not be that willing to share my results with members of this forum if others don't step up soon and get involved.  Outside experts want money or they don't want you to waste their time.

So, what is your expertise?   

I am the author of all the Power To Be archived files.  There are many of them.

Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia,

I will give you some help. First tell me exactly what you want to do? I have been building Joule Thief circuits for years if you don't believe me please check the Joule Thief thread on here. I am very well versed in electronics an have a degree from the University. So what would you like to know.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 16, 2011, 01:07:52 AM
Hi Altrez,

Great to hear from you!!  Thanks for your willingness to help.  Thanks also for the hints you gave in the past.
 
Right now I'm just wanting information on how to properly set up and assemble the pierce circuit and joule thief circuit.  I have studied the two circuits but my expertise is not in electronics and I am at a loss from the standpoint of which specific subcomponents to purchase for both these circuits.  There are a wide range of choices for many of these subcomponents and I wanted to make sure that I didn't order the wrong parts.  Any suggestion on proper subcomponents and setup of the two circuits would be very helpful.  I'm planning on using the 45 Khz transducers and need to be able to adjust them to somewhere at or about 43 Khz and also I want my voltage increased from 12 vdc to 36 vdc. 

Anyway, I appreciate your willingness to share with me.

Best Regards,
Slovenia 

Slovenia,

I will give you some help. First tell me exactly what you want to do? I have been building Joule Thief circuits for years if you don't believe me please check the Joule Thief thread on here. I am very well versed in electronics an have a degree from the University. So what would you like to know.

-Altrez
Title: Altrez
Post by: superman9976 on April 16, 2011, 01:13:54 AM
Hey Altrez,

Could you answer some of my questions from my last post?  I have an electrical engineer friend but he doesn't have at the time in the world right now.  He is working on the RF project from energetic as he has time.  I have two books complete wireless design and practical electronics for inventors that I am using for reference.  There some formulas and some schematics in there I could post a picture of the schematic and you see what you think if you wanna take a look.  I am not sure if the components they list are thee components to use or not. 
Appreciate it,
Chris
Title: Transducers
Post by: superman9976 on April 16, 2011, 01:16:07 AM
Solvenia,

If you really want me to buy those transducers I will but maybe we should get more of a clue to what the other circuits consist of before spending the money what do you think?

Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on April 16, 2011, 01:35:37 AM
Hi Altrez,

Great to hear from you!!  Thanks for your willingness to help.  Thanks also for the hints you gave in the past.
 
Right now I'm just wanting information on how to properly set up and assemble the pierce circuit and joule thief circuit.  I have studied the two circuits but my expertise is not in electronics and I am at a loss from the standpoint of which specific subcomponents to purchase for both these circuits.  There are a wide range of choices for many of these subcomponents and I wanted to make sure that I didn't order the wrong parts.  Any suggestion on proper subcomponents and setup of the two circuits would be very helpful.  I'm planning on using the 45 Khz transducers and need to be able to adjust them to somewhere at or about 43 Khz and also I want my voltage increased from 12 vdc to 36 vdc. 

Anyway, I appreciate your willingness to share with me.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
There is a very easy way to do this an that is with a function generator. They are very cheep on ebay. The next is to build the "pierce circuit " an for that I will need you to post a schematic an I will order the parts build it then post a video on how to do it. Remember this, there are  a lot of different ways to reach the same goal we are looking for a sine wave once we have that it can be replicated a 1000 different ways.

Look at a Function Generator! Its very practical an can be used for lots of free energy study.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Altrez
Post by: altrez on April 16, 2011, 01:39:16 AM
Hey Altrez,

Could you answer some of my questions from my last post?  I have an electrical engineer friend but he doesn't have at the time in the world right now.  He is working on the RF project from energetic as he has time.  I have two books complete wireless design and practical electronics for inventors that I am using for reference.  There some formulas and some schematics in there I could post a picture of the schematic and you see what you think if you wanna take a look.  I am not sure if the components they list are thee components to use or not. 
Appreciate it,
Chris

Of course I will help you please post any schematic / formulas you may have and I will study it an post any solutions that I may find here.

Take Care,

-Altrez
Title: Schematics for Pierce & JT Circuits
Post by: Slovenia on April 16, 2011, 01:49:40 AM
Thanks Altrez!!!  Your the man.

Here are the schematics I have for the Pierce Circuit & JT Circuit:

Pierce Circuit Schematic:
http://i55.tinypic.com/jzd4r7.png

Joule Thief Circuit Schematic:
http://i52.tinypic.com/30tgj2p.png

I was especially concerned about possibly selecting the wrong crystal oscillator, caps, toroid ferrite ring.

A toroid builder told me to use 24 awg wire for winding the toroid but that's the only hint he gave me.  He also said the crystal oscillator needed to be right but he didn't give me a recommendation as to which one to use.

Here is what I know:

Pierce Circuit Schematic:
http://i55.tinypic.com/jzd4r7.png

Parts for Pierce Circuit:
1) Crystal = (X1) (Crystal Oscillator)??
Which crystal oscillator would be optimal?

2) Resistor = (R1)
You already recommended "Pots" in place of resistors.

3) NOT Gate = (U1) **Inverter Function** ??
Which NOT Gate would be optimal?

4) Two Capacitors = (C1) & (C2) ??
Which Capacitors would be optimal?

5) Two Earth Grounds


Joule Thief Circuit Scematic:
http://i52.tinypic.com/30tgj2p.png

Parts for Joule Thief:
1) 2n3904 ??
Is this the proper transistor to use?

2) diode??
Which diode to use?

3) Cell (12 volt car battery)

4) Toroid?? 
What size ferrite ring should I use?
What size wire would be optimal?
Approximately how many windings on the ferrite core?

5) 1K Resistor
You already recommended "Pots" in place of resistors.

Thanks again Altrez!!!


Of course I will help you please post any schematic / formulas you may have and I will study it an post any solutions that I may find here.

Take Care,

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: eisnad karm on April 16, 2011, 03:10:35 AM
@Slovenia
I admire your efforts and it is pleasing that you are now being offered help by others.
I do not have the qualifications in electronics to be able to contribute.
My fears were that there was a lot of non clearly defined information. At the very start of this thread I read up on all the reference links and could not see anything there that made sense..in some cases quite the oppersite. It like you are given hints but nothing concrete..lots of verbage. So I was never clear of the foundation this was based on.
The plot seems to keep changing. This proberbly exposes many of my short commings.
However rather than be the critic (and I am certainly not critical of you and many other here) I will just keep a watching brief and wish you all the best.
mark
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on April 16, 2011, 03:48:10 AM
Actually, Power To Be has told us a lot of stuff in many different threads.  He has given us a lot of very fine information.  I believe from the bottom of my heart that his system works, or I would not have thrown myself into this project the way I have.  Anyway, most of the info is on the Energetic Forum site in many different threads.  I don't know if you looked at any of my archived pdf files or not.  They make it much easier to follow and find important details laid out by Power To Be.  My favorite file I put together is "Compilation of Power1 Posts" and it has been downloaded 169 times.  Anyway, this file has all the threads where Power To Be commented on something of interest to this project.

Compilation of Power1 Posts (Link)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52177573/Compilation-of-Power1-Posts


@Slovenia
I admire your efforts and it is pleasing that you are now being offered help by others.
I do not have the qualifications in electronics to be able to contribute.
My fears were that there was a lot of non clearly defined information. At the very start of this thread I read up on all the reference links and could not see anything there that made sense..in some cases quite the oppersite. It like you are given hints but nothing concrete..lots of verbage. So I was never clear of the foundation this was based on.
The plot seems to keep changing. This proberbly exposes many of my short commings.
However rather than be the critic (and I am certainly not critical of you and many other here) I will just keep a watching brief and wish you all the best.
mark
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: eisnad karm on April 16, 2011, 04:43:30 AM
@slovenia
many thanks for the links I will enjoy reading them
Mark
Title: Re: Schematics for Pierce & JT Circuits
Post by: altrez on April 16, 2011, 09:11:50 AM
Thanks Altrez!!!  Your the man.

Here are the schematics I have for the Pierce Circuit & JT Circuit:

Pierce Circuit Schematic:
http://i55.tinypic.com/jzd4r7.png

Joule Thief Circuit Schematic:
http://i52.tinypic.com/30tgj2p.png

I was especially concerned about possibly selecting the wrong crystal oscillator, caps, toroid ferrite ring.

A toroid builder told me to use 24 awg wire for winding the toroid but that's the only hint he gave me.  He also said the crystal oscillator needed to be right but he didn't give me a recommendation as to which one to use.

Here is what I know:

Pierce Circuit Schematic:
http://i55.tinypic.com/jzd4r7.png

Parts for Pierce Circuit:
1) Crystal = (X1) (Crystal Oscillator)??
Which crystal oscillator would be optimal?

2) Resistor = (R1)
You already recommended "Pots" in place of resistors.

3) NOT Gate = (U1) **Inverter Function** ??
Which NOT Gate would be optimal?

4) Two Capacitors = (C1) & (C2) ??
Which Capacitors would be optimal?

5) Two Earth Grounds


Joule Thief Circuit Scematic:
http://i52.tinypic.com/30tgj2p.png

Parts for Joule Thief:
1) 2n3904 ??
Is this the proper transistor to use?

2) diode??
Which diode to use?

3) Cell (12 volt car battery)

4) Toroid?? 
What size ferrite ring should I use?
What size wire would be optimal?
Approximately how many windings on the ferrite core?

5) 1K Resistor
You already recommended "Pots" in place of resistors.

Thanks again Altrez!!!

Lets start with the JT.

1. The transistor should be matched for your input voltage try this with a heat sink http://www.taydaelectronics.com/servlet/the-46/15A-fdsh-60V-2-2N-2N3055/Detail

2. The LED would not be used in this application for light. You are using the output to feed the amp.

3. Start with an adjustable power source an use your scope to watch the output.

4. The Toroid http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16460 use 24 Gage hook up wire, the number of turns would need to be calculated but I say start with 8 and look at the output with a scope. 

5. Yes use a potentiometer with a scope on the output to fine tune.

Lets get this part done then we can move on.


-Altrez
Title: Re: Schematics for Pierce & JT Circuits
Post by: Slovenia on April 16, 2011, 01:10:41 PM
Thanks Altrez!!!  Sounds very good.

Lets start with the JT.

1. The transistor should be matched for your input voltage try this with a heat sink http://www.taydaelectronics.com/servlet/the-46/15A-fdsh-60V-2-2N-2N3055/Detail

2. The LED would not be used in this application for light. You are using the output to feed the amp.

3. Start with an adjustable power source an use your scope to watch the output.

4. The Toroid http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16460 use 24 Gage hook up wire, the number of turns would need to be calculated but I say start with 8 and look at the output with a scope. 

5. Yes use a potentiometer with a scope on the output to fine tune.

Lets get this part done then we can move on.


-Altrez
Title: Diode Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 16, 2011, 03:55:19 PM
Hi Altrez,

Is a diode not necessary in the JT circuit?  Thanks!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Altrez
Post by: superman9976 on April 16, 2011, 10:12:17 PM
Here are the pics and formulas I have:

http://www.filedropper.com/circuitspics

 if that doesnt work I know it takes a while to show up.
Title: Thanks
Post by: Slovenia on April 16, 2011, 10:27:39 PM
Thanks for sharing the file!!  I ordered my parts today for the JT.

Here are the pics and formulas I have:

http://www.filedropper.com/circuitspics

 if that doesnt work I know it takes a while to show up.
Title: JT
Post by: superman9976 on April 17, 2011, 03:13:19 AM
Solvenia,

Did you just order the JT parts for now?  So we are gonna learn that first right?  I have yet to go through that list of links you posted but I will start doing that tonight yet.  It took awhile to scan in the files and post them so thats why I ended up posting them today.  Those two books I have have a lot to offer in them but the only way to learn it is by building.  Where did you order your parts mouser?

Chris
Title: Re: JT
Post by: Slovenia on April 17, 2011, 05:10:02 AM
Hi Superman,

Yes, I just ordered the JT parts since I don't know which specific parts to order for the Pierce Circuit yet.  There are so many choices, and I don't want to waste any money guessing on this.  I want to get this right the first time so I can show success to the group and get a whole bunch more folks on board with this project.  If we can get a good working proof of concept machine going, I know that there will then be much interest in the project and then maybe Power To Be will show us the next door to open.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Solvenia,

Did you just order the JT parts for now?  So we are gonna learn that first right?  I have yet to go through that list of links you posted but I will start doing that tonight yet.  It took awhile to scan in the files and post them so thats why I ended up posting them today.  Those two books I have have a lot to offer in them but the only way to learn it is by building.  Where did you order your parts mouser?

Chris
Title: Higher Self Study Update
Post by: Slovenia on April 17, 2011, 05:24:41 AM
Higher Self Study Update

I've been doing a lot of research in this area since Power To Be turned me on to the possibilities related to the higher self.  I wanted to tap into this area of my own being as well.  I wanted to become all I could be and the normal education system here in US has not helped me that much in this area.  I've also been studying some of the hints left by Power To Be on this subject.  He's made my brain come alive both day and night and yet I'm still not satisfied with where I am presently and expect to be when I'm finished.  So, I continue to search and I have found some interesting things which I wanted to hint at without wasting to much time in this off-topic area.  The importance of the morning dew was once mentioned in a post directed to Romo from Powers.   I have found that Reiki talks to this morning dew and it's importance as well.  If you have interest in gaining this knowledge talked about, I suggest you study both Reiki and Sun Gazing.  The Sun Gazing takes about nine months before true success can be achieved but it seems to be the easiest method I have found.  The Reiki is also I do believe a very important science to study too.  I feel that both these methods need to be studied if you have knowledge in this area.  I have been sun gazing now only twice and yet still seen some interesting results.  My dreams are more clear to me now and easier to remember even though they still don't make much sense.  Also, I can now dream while I am awake without any trouble.  So, I do believe I am onto something here.  I also feel more perceptive than I felt before.  Also in sun gazing they show you how to make charged water which you drink, and it does seem to make you feel energized and more focused.  Anyway, I wanted to share this information with you.  I'm not trying to mislead anyone but am truly hunting for the truth within all of us.
Title: Reiki
Post by: superman9976 on April 17, 2011, 02:50:02 PM
Solvenia,
I have a book on reiki I was studying it for a while but realized I would need to burn sage to cleanse rooms and to avoid being attacked.  I guess I get a little weary of doing reiki since once you open yourself up to that dimension it cant be closed.  I know someone who does reiki and she seems paranoid to me at times and her logic seems off to me.  It also seems like she lost the ability to decipher wrong from right.  To my understanding it gives the ability to accept other people's problems burdens onto yourself and allow them to heal while you have to dispose of it. 
Chris
Title: Re: Reiki
Post by: Slovenia on April 17, 2011, 03:03:44 PM
Thanks Superman for that info.. 

Solvenia,
I have a book on reiki I was studying it for a while but realized I would need to burn sage to cleanse rooms and to avoid being attacked.  I guess I get a little weary of doing reiki since once you open yourself up to that dimension it cant be closed.  I know someone who does reiki and she seems paranoid to me at times and her logic seems off to me.  It also seems like she lost the ability to decipher wrong from right.  To my understanding it gives the ability to accept other people's problems burdens onto yourself and allow them to heal while you have to dispose of it. 
Chris
Title: Re: Diode Query
Post by: altrez on April 17, 2011, 08:21:57 PM
Hi Altrez,

Is a diode not necessary in the JT circuit?  Thanks!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

If you want to run a light application then yes. If you are using it as a frequency generator then no.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Altrez
Post by: altrez on April 17, 2011, 08:24:44 PM
Here are the pics and formulas I have:

http://www.filedropper.com/circuitspics

 if that doesnt work I know it takes a while to show up.

It tells me the RAR file is corrupted.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Diode Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 17, 2011, 09:27:29 PM
Altrez,

Thanks!!  No, just as frequency generator.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


If you want to run a light application then yes. If you are using it as a frequency generator then no.

-Altrez
Title: Potentiometer for JT
Post by: Slovenia on April 17, 2011, 09:33:19 PM
I ordered the 5K OHM Linear Taper Potentiometers for my JT Circuit.  I hope they will work.  They had many different OHM ratings and I didn't know which one to get so I just took the highest rated one.  I hope my guess was okay.  Thanks for all the help Altrez!!!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on April 17, 2011, 09:45:44 PM
Hey Altrez,

I don't get why it would be corrupt?  I just downloaded it again today unrared it and it opens fine.  I am using windows 7 ultimate and used winrar to compress it.  If you PM your email I can send it through my gmail that way.

In your earlier post when you said adjustable power supply meant that I should pick up a 110v power supply?  We are not going to use a battery then?  I should also pick up a function generator and scope?  What specs am I looking for?  Like ranges I mean?

I appreciate your help Altrez hands on approach is the best!

Thanks
Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 17, 2011, 09:53:48 PM
Hi Superman,

You should have a variac, adjustable transformer.  They are fairly cheap on e-bay and come in really handy for our work.  I got an industrial one for $10 on e-bay.  You will need a scope to adjust your potentiometer to the desired frequencies.  I think you can do without the function generator.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


In your earlier post when you said adjustable power supply meant that I should pick up a 110v power supply?  We are not going to use a battery then?  I should also pick up a function generator and scope?  What specs am I looking for?  Like ranges I mean?

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on April 17, 2011, 11:34:46 PM
Hi Superman,

You should have a variac, adjustable transformer.  They are fairly cheap on e-bay and come in really handy for our work.  I got an industrial one for $10 on e-bay.  You will need a scope to adjust your potentiometer to the desired frequencies.  I think you can do without the function generator.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia,

Variacs are great to have this is true. However I am going to show you a way to run this from a 12v car / lantern battery. We will convert to AC that can produce a clean sine wave at the correct frequency rage, then output that to our transducers.

You need to remember that we are simply making a dedicated circuit for the piezo an not using the standardized one that comes with the transducer..

The function generator is done ready to go. All you have to do is change the dial to the correct frequency select your wave form and output voltage. Its a very simple way to tinker with the right frequency. AND I RECOMMEND that if you have the cash to pick one up for prototyping.

When you have it tuned in. The you produce the correct circuit. Its so very easy to do. Takes all the guess work out of the circuit.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on April 17, 2011, 11:41:42 PM
Hey Altrez,

I don't get why it would be corrupt?  I just downloaded it again today unrared it and it opens fine.  I am using windows 7 ultimate and used winrar to compress it.  If you PM your email I can send it through my gmail that way.

In your earlier post when you said adjustable power supply meant that I should pick up a 110v power supply?  We are not going to use a battery then?  I should also pick up a function generator and scope?  What specs am I looking for?  Like ranges I mean?

I appreciate your help Altrez hands on approach is the best!

Thanks
Chris

Hello Chris,

I am not sure I will re download it later. We are going to use a battery. The reason for the adjustable DC power supply is to really get the input power tuned in. Then we will run from the correct battery.

Think about it like this. We are building a frequency generator based on the information we have. If you buy a Function generator then you can fine tune everything to your personal reaction chamber. Its the easy way to go an it will save you hours of hard work an headaches in the long run. I encourage you to look up how one works then you will completely understand where I am coming from.

If you do not have scope you will have a very hard time understanding how all this is working. You can get one form eBay for $60 its pretty much a requirement.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 18, 2011, 12:04:23 AM
Altrez,

Thanks for your recommendations.  I like your way much better.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Slovenia,

Variacs are great to have this is true. However I am going to show you a way to run this from a 12v car / lantern battery. We will convert to AC that can produce a clean sine wave at the correct frequency rage, then output that to our transducers.

You need to remember that we are simply making a dedicated circuit for the piezo an not using the standardized one that comes with the transducer..

The function generator is done ready to go. All you have to do is change the dial to the correct frequency select your wave form and output voltage. Its a very simple way to tinker with the right frequency. AND I RECOMMEND that if you have the cash to pick one up for prototyping.

When you have it tuned in. The you produce the correct circuit. Its so very easy to do. Takes all the guess work out of the circuit.

-Altrez
Title: Joule Thief Circuit
Post by: RAD-HHO on April 18, 2011, 02:53:29 AM
I built a Joule Thief circuit today and took some pics.
I used a 2" toroid with 22 awg cat3 solid copper wire wound 1:1 with 46 turns all the way around.
I used an ECG 287 300v NPN transistor.
12vdc supply, 103v @ 42.7Khz output.  :)

Rick
Title: Re: Joule Thief Circuit
Post by: altrez on April 18, 2011, 03:03:25 AM
I built a Joule Thief circuit today and took some pics.
I used a 2" toroid with 22 awg cat3 solid copper wire wound 1:1 with 46 turns all the way around.
I used an ECG 287 300v NPN transistor.
12vdc supply, 103v @ 42.7Khz output.  :)

Rick

Nice!

Good Job!

-Altrez
Title: Re: Joule Thief Circuit
Post by: Slovenia on April 18, 2011, 03:50:04 AM
Good to see you are still there RAD-HHO!!  Nice workmanship indeed.

I built a Joule Thief circuit today and took some pics.
I used a 2" toroid with 22 awg cat3 solid copper wire wound 1:1 with 46 turns all the way around.
I used an ECG 287 300v NPN transistor.
12vdc supply, 103v @ 42.7Khz output.  :)

Rick
Title: Re: Joule Thief Circuit
Post by: Slovenia on April 18, 2011, 04:02:34 AM
Nice to see you there RAD-HHO!!  Great workmanship indeed.

I built a Joule Thief circuit today and took some pics.
I used a 2" toroid with 22 awg cat3 solid copper wire wound 1:1 with 46 turns all the way around.
I used an ECG 287 300v NPN transistor.
12vdc supply, 103v @ 42.7Khz output.  :)

Rick
Title: Re: Joule Thief Circuit
Post by: RAD-HHO on April 18, 2011, 06:19:45 AM
Nice to see you there RAD-HHO!!  Great workmanship indeed.

Nice!

Good Job!

-Altrez

Thanks guys

Title: Function Generator Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 19, 2011, 04:36:51 PM
Altrez,

Which function generators will work for us on this project?  I noticed there are many different setups out there in many different price ranges.  I want to go as cheap as possible and still have something that will work for me.  There are some inexpensive ones, but I didn't know if they would fit our needs or not.  They are much older models.  Thanks for sharing with us!!

I had my eye on a nice 2 MHz model but noticed others went up to 20 MHz.  So, I was confused and thought I better check before jumping.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on April 19, 2011, 07:10:56 PM
Since the cost of function generators seems directly related to their frequency coverage (higher frequency = more expensive) you probably will want to get one only as high as you think you may need for your projects and this one certainly does not need a 20 Mhz frequency.  So the 2 Mhz would be fine IMO.  I rarely seem to find projects that need much higher than my 3 Mhz generator. 
Title: Function Generator
Post by: Slovenia on April 19, 2011, 08:01:31 PM
Thanks e2matrix!!

Since the cost of function generators seems directly related to their frequency coverage (higher frequency = more expensive) you probably will want to get one only as high as you think you may need for your projects and this one certainly does not need a 20 Mhz frequency.  So the 2 Mhz would be fine IMO.  I rarely seem to find projects that need much higher than my 3 Mhz generator.
Title: Re: Function Generator Query
Post by: altrez on April 19, 2011, 11:46:45 PM
Altrez,

Which function generators will work for us on this project?  I noticed there are many different setups out there in many different price ranges.  I want to go as cheap as possible and still have something that will work for me.  There are some inexpensive ones, but I didn't know if they would fit our needs or not.  They are much older models.  Thanks for sharing with us!!

I had my eye on a nice 2 MHz model but noticed others went up to 20 MHz.  So, I was confused and thought I better check before jumping.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

I have a simple 2 MHz one from eBay. It was really cheap. That should do fine for a lot of cool free energy projects.. You can construct your chamber an test it over a wide rage of frequencies with the cheap one.

-Altrez

Title: Re: Function Generator Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 20, 2011, 01:33:42 AM
Thanks Altrez!!

I have a simple 2 MHz one from eBay. It was really cheap. That should do fine for a lot of cool free energy projects.. You can construct your chamber an test it over a wide rage of frequencies with the cheap one.

-Altrez
Title: Chinese Transducers (NEW Place)
Post by: Slovenia on April 21, 2011, 12:52:44 AM
Hey guys,
I found a new site in China that has exactly what I think that we are looking for in the way of piezo transducers.  They have them in all the frequencies we are looking for such as but not limited to:

42.8 KHz, 43.4 KHz, & 45.5 KHz

They are also fairly cheap at $6.67 / unit.  The only drawback is that the minimum order is 48 pieces.  Oh well!!
LINK:
http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/2502822/Piezoelectric_transducer.html

I found these at the site Power To Be recommended, taobao.com.
Title: Re: Chinese Transducers (NEW Place)
Post by: TEKTRON on April 21, 2011, 06:30:19 AM
Hey guys,
I found a new site in China that has exactly what I think that we are looking for in the way of piezo transducers.  They have them in all the frequencies we are looking for such as but not limited to:

42.8 KHz, 43.4 KHz, & 45.5 KHz

They are also fairly cheap at $6.67 / unit.  The only drawback is that the minimum order is 48 pieces.  Oh well!!
LINK:
http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/2502822/Piezoelectric_transducer.html

I found these at the site Power To Be recommended, taobao.com.
Title: Re: Chinese Transducers (NEW Place)
Post by: TEKTRON on April 21, 2011, 06:42:44 AM
Hey guys,
I found a new site in China that has exactly what I think that we are looking for in the way of piezo transducers.  They have them in all the frequencies we are looking for such as but not limited to:

42.8 KHz, 43.4 KHz, & 45.5 KHz

They are also fairly cheap at $6.67 / unit.  The only drawback is that the minimum order is 48 pieces.  Oh well!!
LINK:
http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/2502822/Piezoelectric_transducer.html

I found these at the site Power To Be recommended, taobao.com.

@Slovenia
I'll do 6 units plus shipping if you will accept PayPal.
I want roll on this. PM me. Thanks, John






Title: Re: Chinese Transducers (NEW Place)
Post by: Slovenia on April 21, 2011, 01:09:16 PM
I'm not ready to order 48 units at this time.  I have inquired about the possibility of getting a few samples in lieu of a complete order. 

@Slovenia
I'll do 6 units plus shipping if you will accept PayPal.
I want roll on this. PM me. Thanks, John
Title: Function Generator Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 21, 2011, 05:02:26 PM
How many leads are supposed to come with these function generators and what's the best way to check one to make sure it works properly?  I have my eyes on one and I want to get everything lined up properly before I buy it.  Thanks in advance!!
Title: Re: Function Generator Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 21, 2011, 05:33:40 PM
I just found the answer to my question from the seller of the function generator.  He said it was missing the test leads.  The test leads for BK Precision function generators cost more than this guy was selling his generator for, so I guess I'll probably have to buy new.  I don't want any surprises.  Thanks.

How many leads are supposed to come with these function generators and what's the best way to check one to make sure it works properly?  I have my eyes on one and I want to get everything lined up properly before I buy it.  Thanks in advance!!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on April 21, 2011, 07:59:54 PM
Slovenia,  Most function generators just use a BNC connector and small coax with the shield side hooked to a ground alligator clip and the center hooked to another alligator clip.  It would be fairly easy to make yourself or you might find something similar like this 60 Mhz scope probe with BNC on one end and alligator clip plus usual probe end for less than $6 shipped (but it can take a month to get).  http://www.dealextreme.com/p/60mhz-oscilloscope-probe-with-x1-x10-switch-max-600v-34220   
Some on fleaBay for a bit more.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on April 21, 2011, 08:01:08 PM
how much was the BK?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on April 21, 2011, 08:49:05 PM
Hi Slovenia,

I'm not sure what range your looking for but I've dealt with this company, RSR Electronics, before. They have some pretty good deals every now and then. They are based out of NJ.

Function generators
http://elexp.com/tst-gen.htm

http://elexp.com/tst_fg32.htm
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 21, 2011, 09:23:40 PM
Thanks for the info!!

Hi Slovenia,

I'm not sure what range your looking for but I've dealt with this company, RSR Electronics, before. They have some pretty good deals every now and then. They are based out of NJ.

Function generators
http://elexp.com/tst-gen.htm

http://elexp.com/tst_fg32.htm
Title: Joule thief
Post by: superman9976 on April 22, 2011, 05:28:33 AM
You know guys I have been thinking I tried the other day on the weekend to adhere crystals to the bare piece of metal and it doesnt seem the best.  Even tried heat.  Power to be did he get into electrostatic plating at all.  Is that what he meant when he said there's way more to it then just powder coating?  So what spray our zinc crystals onto a material and bake it?  Is that what powder coating is?
 I built a joule thief circuit just the way the PDF says too and got it to work.  Wrapped the 1" torroid eight times used 26 gauge wire. 1/4 watt 1K resistor and the transistor they suggest.  The 3 volt blue LED has been running for over 72 hours now. The battery is down to .6 volts.  My brother sees this circuit as similiar to a bedini circuit because of the toroid tapping into the vacuum and barely using any current. 
So with this joule thief circuit we are too make say a crystal plated disc/antenna oscillate in our reaction chamber to gain the desired reaction?   High voltage low current around 43khz?
I borrowed a scope from my brother and purchased other components from radio shack to build what Altrez was talking about.  I will play around with that stuff this weekend and post any questions I have. 
I sent an email to our Mary to see if she offers other frequency transducers besides 40khz and 45khz maybe something in between with low order quantities.
Thanks Guys this is been quite the journey but its definitely been fun so far.
Chris
Title: Re: Joule thief
Post by: Slovenia on April 22, 2011, 01:31:30 PM
Hi Superman,

Thanks for sharing.  In this particular application, we are using the Joule Thief Circuit as a frequency generator and not as a light, so for our purposes we don't need either the light or the diode.  We are going to be using this circuit to tune in our piezo transducer to the desired frequency.  Also, Altrez has said that we need to also add a heat sink to the equation.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

You know guys I have been thinking I tried the other day on the weekend to adhere crystals to the bare piece of metal and it doesnt seem the best.  Even tried heat.  Power to be did he get into electrostatic plating at all.  Is that what he meant when he said there's way more to it then just powder coating?  So what spray our zinc crystals onto a material and bake it?  Is that what powder coating is?
 I built a joule thief circuit just the way the PDF says too and got it to work.  Wrapped the 1" torroid eight times used 26 gauge wire. 1/4 watt 1K resistor and the transistor they suggest.  The 3 volt blue LED has been running for over 72 hours now. The battery is down to .6 volts.  My brother sees this circuit as similiar to a bedini circuit because of the toroid tapping into the vacuum and barely using any current. 
So with this joule thief circuit we are too make say a crystal plated disc/antenna oscillate in our reaction chamber to gain the desired reaction?   High voltage low current around 43khz?
I borrowed a scope from my brother and purchased other components from radio shack to build what Altrez was talking about.  I will play around with that stuff this weekend and post any questions I have. 
I sent an email to our Mary to see if she offers other frequency transducers besides 40khz and 45khz maybe something in between with low order quantities.
Thanks Guys this is been quite the journey but its definitely been fun so far.
Chris
Title: Project Update
Post by: Slovenia on April 22, 2011, 01:36:17 PM
I'm still waiting on my parts for the joule thief, frequency generator, as described by Altrez.  I did finally break down and purchase a new function generator yesterday. 

I have the pond fogger waiting for the joule thief circuit before we can test it in the clear acrylic test cell I have.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on April 23, 2011, 02:50:26 AM
Hi Solvenia,

Yes I understand the light function is not used but for my learning I wanted to make sure I could make it work and I did.  It is still running almost 96 hours now.  Im not so sure about the function generator but I did find one for about 125 shipped to my door off ebay.  There's something about the toroid in the joule thief.  My other idea was to make a two stage reaction chamber.  First stage using the fogger transducers to make the water vapor then stage two is too oscillate an antenna in the vapor to further it break down whether its using the joule thief in the way radhho did it or using the pierce oscillator. 

Mary emailed me back and has a transducer that oscillates in between 42khz and 44khz so it seems perfect.  What do you think get a minimum quantity and price?

Chris
Title: Mary's Transducers
Post by: Slovenia on April 23, 2011, 03:00:05 AM
Hi Superman,

Your JT Light is definitely a success.  Sorry, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

As for Mary's transducers, the shipping is $61 no matter what, so you would be better served buying at least 10 and then selling those you don't want or need.  I'd take two to four of them at this point but after careful consideration, I only want the 45 KHz transducers.  You can always adjust down a bit but it's harder to go up and have it work properly.  There might be some other guys that would be willing to chip in there too if you were interested in doing that.  Romo & Altrez might want some too.  There is a lot of interest in the project still, but most guys are just watching to see how a few of us come out with the experiment before spending their money.  Good Job!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Hi Solvenia,

Yes I understand the light function is not used but for my learning I wanted to make sure I could make it work and I did.  It is still running almost 96 hours now.  Im not so sure about the function generator but I did find one for about 125 shipped to my door off ebay.  There's something about the toroid in the joule thief.  My other idea was to make a two stage reaction chamber.  First stage using the fogger transducers to make the water vapor then stage two is too oscillate an antenna in the vapor to further it break down whether its using the joule thief in the way radhho did it or using the pierce oscillator. 

Mary emailed me back and has a transducer that oscillates in between 42khz and 44khz so it seems perfect.  What do you think get a minimum quantity and price?

Chris
Title: Oscilloscope vs Function Generator
Post by: Slovenia on April 23, 2011, 03:04:29 AM
Altrez says that an oscilloscope will work for this project but that it might be many hours of messing with the tuning while the function generator will give you immediate results.  Even though I already had an oscilloscope, I didn't want to mess around with the tuning aspect, so I jumped out there and got one of the function generators.  Mine was $125 plus $19 S&H.  It was a new unit. 
Title: Re: Oscilloscope vs Function Generator
Post by: altrez on April 23, 2011, 01:35:30 PM
Altrez says that an oscilloscope will work for this project but that it might be many hours of messing with the tuning while the function generator will give you immediate results.  Even though I already had an oscilloscope, I didn't want to mess around with the tuning aspect, so I jumped out there and got one of the function generators.  Mine was $125 plus $19 S&H.  It was a new unit.

Hey Slovenia,

Actually what I said was that an oscilloscope is a must have for this project. You need it to tune the Joule Thief and also to verify the output of your Function Generator. Here are three different scopes that will work.

http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Sized-Digital-Oscilloscope-AGPtek-reader/dp/B004TJNH4O/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1

http://www.amazon.com/DSO-Nano-V2-Pocket-Sized-Oscilloscope/dp/B004G4XS32

http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1052E-Oscilloscope-channels-connectivity/dp/B003MYND5A/ref=pd_cp_e_2

You are doing well thank you for all the hard work you put into this project.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Oscilloscope vs Function Generator
Post by: Slovenia on April 23, 2011, 02:52:52 PM
Hi Altrez,

Good to hear from you.  I know you said that an oscilloscope was a must have for the project, but I thought you also said that a function generator would make it much easier to tune the JT than an oscilloscope.  Did I misunderstand that?  Wow, I hope not because I didn't have $150 to throw away.

P.S.:  I already had an oscilloscope but I wanted to take all the guess work out of this project.  I want it to succeed very badly.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Hey Slovenia,

Actually what I said was that an oscilloscope is a must have for this project. You need it to tune the Joule Thief and also to verify the output of your Function Generator. Here are three different scopes that will work.

http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Sized-Digital-Oscilloscope-AGPtek-reader/dp/B004TJNH4O/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1

http://www.amazon.com/DSO-Nano-V2-Pocket-Sized-Oscilloscope/dp/B004G4XS32

http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1052E-Oscilloscope-channels-connectivity/dp/B003MYND5A/ref=pd_cp_e_2

You are doing well thank you for all the hard work you put into this project.

-Altrez
Title: Function Generator Scenario
Post by: Slovenia on April 24, 2011, 04:06:01 AM
Hi Altrez,

I was just going by the two posts I have coped below.  If I misunderstood, I'll make the best of it. 
Thanks for your willingness to help on this project!!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

April 17, 2011
Quote from: Slovenia on April 17, 2011, 09:53:48 PM
Hi Superman,
You should have a variac, adjustable transformer.  They are fairly cheap on e-bay and come in really handy for our work.  I got an industrial one for $10 on e-bay.  You will need a scope to adjust your potentiometer to the desired frequencies.  I think you can do without the function generator.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia,
12v car / lantern battery
Variacs are great to have this is true.  However, I am going to show you a way to run this from a 12v car / lantern battery. 
Convert to AC
We will convert to AC that can produce a clean sine wave at the correct frequency rage, then output that to our transducers.
Dedicated Circuit for Piezo
You need to remember that we are simply making a dedicated circuit for the piezo and not using the standardized one that comes with the transducer..
Function Generator
The function generator is done ready to go.  All you have to do is change the dial to the correct frequency select your wave form and output voltage.  Its a very simple way to tinker with the right frequency.   AND, I RECOMMEND that if you have the cash to pick one up for  prototyping.
No Guess Work

When you have it tuned in.  Then you produce the correct circuit.  It's so very easy to do.  Takes all the guess work out of the circuit.
-Altrez


April 17, 2011

We are going to use a battery.  The reason for the adjustable DC power supply is to really get the input power tuned in. Then we will run from the correct battery.
Frequency Generator
Think about it like this. We are building a frequency generator based on the information we have.  If you buy a Function generator then you can fine tune everything to your personal reaction chamber. Its the easy way to go and it will save you hours of hard work and headaches in the long run.  I encourage you to look up how one works then you will completely understand where I am coming from.

If you do not have scope you will have a very hard time understanding how all this is working. You can get one form eBay for $60 its pretty much a requirement.

-Altrez
Title: 12 volt car lantern battery Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 24, 2011, 11:13:03 AM
Hi Altrez,

You mentioned that you are going to show us how to utilize a 12v car / lantern battery for our experiment in lieu of a variac.  Would you give us an idea where we can pick up this particular battery and what if anything else is needed to go with it such as but not limited to chargers?  Thanks!!

P.S.:  Also, does it matter what range of potentiometers we use with our joule thief circuit?  I want to get the one that will allow for the best fine tuning ability.   Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Oscilloscope vs Function Generator
Post by: altrez on April 24, 2011, 08:15:06 PM
Hi Altrez,

Good to hear from you.  I know you said that an oscilloscope was a must have for the project, but I thought you also said that a function generator would make it much easier to tune the JT than an oscilloscope.  Did I misunderstand that?  Wow, I hope not because I didn't have $150 to throw away.

P.S.:  I already had an oscilloscope but I wanted to take all the guess work out of this project.  I want it to succeed very badly.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

It does make it much easier you simply dial the function generator to the required frequency an you are done.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Function Generator Scenario
Post by: altrez on April 24, 2011, 08:20:15 PM
Hi Altrez,

I was just going by the two posts I have coped below.  If I misunderstood, I'll make the best of it. 
Thanks for your willingness to help on this project!!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

April 17, 2011
Quote from: Slovenia on April 17, 2011, 09:53:48 PM
Hi Superman,
You should have a variac, adjustable transformer.  They are fairly cheap on e-bay and come in really handy for our work.  I got an industrial one for $10 on e-bay.  You will need a scope to adjust your potentiometer to the desired frequencies.  I think you can do without the function generator.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia,
12v car / lantern battery
Variacs are great to have this is true.  However, I am going to show you a way to run this from a 12v car / lantern battery. 
Convert to AC
We will convert to AC that can produce a clean sine wave at the correct frequency rage, then output that to our transducers.
Dedicated Circuit for Piezo
You need to remember that we are simply making a dedicated circuit for the piezo and not using the standardized one that comes with the transducer..
Function Generator
The function generator is done ready to go.  All you have to do is change the dial to the correct frequency select your wave form and output voltage.  Its a very simple way to tinker with the right frequency.   AND, I RECOMMEND that if you have the cash to pick one up for  prototyping.
No Guess Work

When you have it tuned in.  Then you produce the correct circuit.  It's so very easy to do.  Takes all the guess work out of the circuit.
-Altrez


April 17, 2011

We are going to use a battery.  The reason for the adjustable DC power supply is to really get the input power tuned in. Then we will run from the correct battery.
Frequency Generator
Think about it like this. We are building a frequency generator based on the information we have.  If you buy a Function generator then you can fine tune everything to your personal reaction chamber. Its the easy way to go and it will save you hours of hard work and headaches in the long run.  I encourage you to look up how one works then you will completely understand where I am coming from.

If you do not have scope you will have a very hard time understanding how all this is working. You can get one form eBay for $60 its pretty much a requirement.

-Altrez

The function generator is the same as tuning a Joule Thief. You can do the whole design an testing phase with the Function Gen an once you have it perfect then you make the Joule Thief that outputs what you want.

So for eaxmple when you get your pizeo all you need to do is clip the leads from the Funtion Gen to it an move the dial on the gen until yiou reach the perfect balance.

You then write down the output that is displayed on the function generator. Verify it with a scope an then build the Joule Thief an put it in place on the Function Generator for a portable device.

-Altrez
Title: Re: 12 volt car lantern battery Query
Post by: altrez on April 24, 2011, 08:26:34 PM
Hi Altrez,

You mentioned that you are going to show us how to utilize a 12v car / lantern battery for our experiment in lieu of a variac.  Would you give us an idea where we can pick up this particular battery and what if anything else is needed to go with it such as but not limited to chargers?  Thanks!!

P.S.:  Also, does it matter what range of potentiometers we use with our joule thief circuit?  I want to get the one that will allow for the best fine tuning ability.   Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Any 12v 7 amp hour or above battery should work. So basically you could use two 6v battery's as well.

I like to have 4 pot's to test with to get the best sweep. a 5k a 10k a 100k an a 1Meg ohm should work an be less then $10 bucks and give you a lot of sweep.

Do you have any other questions? I am glad to help :) However I have a huge work week ahead of me so my posts my be a bit delayed.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Oscilloscope vs Function Generator
Post by: Slovenia on April 24, 2011, 09:55:47 PM
Easy is good.  Thanks Altrez!!

It does make it much easier you simply dial the function generator to the required frequency an you are done.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Function Generator Scenario
Post by: Slovenia on April 24, 2011, 09:57:41 PM
It sounds like the function generator will be a good device to have around.  Thanks for the clarification Altrez!!

The function generator is the same as tuning a Joule Thief. You can do the whole design an testing phase with the Function Gen an once you have it perfect then you make the Joule Thief that outputs what you want.

So for eaxmple when you get your pizeo all you need to do is clip the leads from the Funtion Gen to it an move the dial on the gen until yiou reach the perfect balance.

You then write down the output that is displayed on the function generator. Verify it with a scope an then build the Joule Thief an put it in place on the Function Generator for a portable device.

-Altrez
Title: Re: 12 volt car lantern battery Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 24, 2011, 10:01:31 PM
No more questions at the present time.  I'm still waiting on parts and trying to get caught up with all my reading.  It looks like I need to get some more pots.  Thanks for all you have shared Altrez!!  With your help we can make this happen, and then we'll have some prototypes to share with everyone.  Thanks!!!

Any 12v 7 amp hour or above battery should work. So basically you could use two 6v battery's as well.

I like to have 4 pot's to test with to get the best sweep. a 5k a 10k a 100k an a 1Meg ohm should work an be less then $10 bucks and give you a lot of sweep.

Do you have any other questions? I am glad to help :) However I have a huge work week ahead of me so my posts my be a bit delayed.

-Altrez
Title: Cost of BK Function Generator
Post by: Slovenia on April 24, 2011, 10:47:16 PM
Hi e2matrix,

Sorry, I didn't see your question until today, Sunday April 24.  The cost of the BK function generator was $65 plus $14.95 S&H.  I just orders a new one instead.  The BK looked very nice and was guaranteed to work.  I saw it on e-bay if you want to look into it.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

how much was the BK?
Title: Pond Fogger Circuit Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 26, 2011, 02:08:23 AM
Hi Altrez,

I did think of another question.  I know this is a very busy week for you too, so no hurry getting back on it.  I know that we are using the JT frequency generator to adjust our piezo transducer instead of the circuit that comes as part of our pond fogger setup.  So, do we have to tear out the circuit that came with the pond fogger or can we just use it along with the JT frequency generator the way it is?  Thanks for all your help.  It's very much appreciated.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Altrez JT frequency generator
Post by: Slovenia on April 26, 2011, 02:13:11 AM
This is Altrez JT frequency generator circuit as I understand it.

If I'm in error, please correct me.  Thanks!!

http://i55.tinypic.com/eskm88.jpg
Title: Re: Pond Fogger Circuit Query
Post by: altrez on April 26, 2011, 04:08:59 AM
Hi Altrez,

I did think of another question.  I know this is a very busy week for you too, so no hurry getting back on it.  I know that we are using the JT frequency generator to adjust our piezo transducer instead of the circuit that comes as part of our pond fogger setup.  So, do we have to tear out the circuit that came with the pond fogger or can we just use it along with the JT frequency generator the way it is?  Thanks for all your help.  It's very much appreciated.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

You need just the piezo not the rest.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Altrez JT frequency generator
Post by: altrez on April 26, 2011, 04:10:50 AM
This is Altrez JT frequency generator circuit as I understand it.

If I'm in error, please correct me.  Thanks!!

http://i55.tinypic.com/eskm88.jpg

Thats a start it needs some tweaking. We will get to it soon.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Pond Fogger Circuit Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 26, 2011, 04:15:27 AM
I was afraid of that.  Thanks. 

You need just the piezo not the rest.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Altrez JT frequency generator
Post by: Slovenia on April 26, 2011, 04:17:36 AM
Thanks Altrez.  You are a kind fellow.

Thats a start it needs some tweaking. We will get to it soon.

-Altrez
Title: JT Parts Came In
Post by: Slovenia on April 26, 2011, 11:35:14 PM
Hi Altrez,

Well, the rest of my JT parts just came in today, so I'm ready to put my JT together.  You said that my circuit diagram for the JT needed some tweaking.  Do you have time to elaborate?  I know it's a very busy week for you.  Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: JT Parts Came In
Post by: altrez on April 27, 2011, 01:53:13 AM
Hi Altrez,

Well, the rest of my JT parts just came in today, so I'm ready to put my JT together.  You said that my circuit diagram for the JT needed some tweaking.  Do you have time to elaborate?  I know it's a very busy week for you.  Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

It might need more or less turns on the toroid an the resistance is key. Put it together and tell me what the output is please.

-Altrez
Title: JT Circuit Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 27, 2011, 02:43:18 AM
Hi Altrez,

The transistor you recommended for use, 2N3055, only has two connection points while the typical transistors used in the JTs have three.  So, I was confused about how to connect the 2N3055 transistor into the circuit.   I was planning to connect one leg of it up to the wire coming from the toroid to the pot and then to the transistor.  The other lead from the toroid I was going to take to the other post on the transistor.  I didn't know which post of the transistor to connect back to the other side of the battery from the transistor.  I had no problem with where the toroid is connected directly to the battery.  I also had a problem with the heat sink.  I was pretty sure that you wanted to apply the heat sink to the transistor, but I wasn't sure how to connect it to the transistor.  I'm not sure where to tie the transducer in either.  Thanks for all your help!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: RAD-HHO on April 27, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
Data Sheet for 2n3055

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/2N3055-D.PDF

The case is the Collector.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on April 27, 2011, 04:32:04 PM
Yes just stick a small screw and nut through one of the mounting holes in the case and connect to that for the collector. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 27, 2011, 05:29:22 PM
Thanks!!

Data Sheet for 2n3055

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/2N3055-D.PDF

The case is the Collector.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 27, 2011, 05:30:21 PM
Thanks!!

Yes just stick a small screw and nut through one of the mounting holes in the case and connect to that for the collector.
Title: Case of Transistor Connection?
Post by: Slovenia on April 27, 2011, 05:47:35 PM
So, the wire from the potentiometer connects to the case of the transistor?  Thanks!!
Title: Re: Case of Transistor Connection?
Post by: RAD-HHO on April 27, 2011, 08:06:28 PM
So, the wire from the potentiometer connects to the case of the transistor?  Thanks!!

No, see attachment....
Title: Re: Case of Transistor Connection?
Post by: Slovenia on April 27, 2011, 09:08:04 PM
Thanks a bunch!!  I've learned a lot here but I never had any prior training in electrical.

No, see attachment....
Title: 2N3055 Data Sheet
Post by: Slovenia on April 27, 2011, 10:35:44 PM
Thanks  Rad,  I understand how to read the data sheet now.

Data Sheet for 2n3055

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/2N3055-D.PDF

The case is the Collector.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on April 27, 2011, 11:57:16 PM
Hey sorry I am in the middle of installing a huge network. The case is the other connection.

-Altrez
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on April 28, 2011, 12:06:43 AM
Thanks Altrez!!  No problem, sorry to bother you on this busy week.  The other guys helped me get it figured out. 

Hey sorry I am in the middle of installing a huge network. The case is the other connection.

-Altrez
Title: 40 KHz transducers
Post by: Slovenia on April 28, 2011, 12:15:14 AM
There seems to be only one supplier I've found in China who makes the 45 KHz transducers and her shipping is way to high, so I've been looking at 40 KHz transducers.  Will the 40 KHz adjust to where we need it to or am I just wasting my time?  I'm waiting for pricing and shipping costs from about five Chinese suppliers now.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Case of Transistor Connection?
Post by: TEKTRON on April 28, 2011, 04:51:10 AM
No, see attachment....


@RAD, So where does the brush on the pot connect?
TIA
Title: Re: Case of Transistor Connection?
Post by: RAD-HHO on April 28, 2011, 06:27:12 AM

@RAD, So where does the brush on the pot connect?
TIA
It doesn't matter. Connect the brush and just one of the other terminals.
Title: Transducer Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 28, 2011, 12:43:51 PM
Hi RAD,

What type of transducer are you using and where did you get it if you don't mind my asking?  Also, what's your final output voltage?  Thanks.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Title: Transducer Update
Post by: Slovenia on April 28, 2011, 12:52:27 PM
Well, I found a transducer supplier in China who will sell you one 40 KHz ultrasonic cleaning transducer for $6.50 but the shipping is still high at $32.00, but I ordered one anyway.  They want to ship them out fast and that's the reason for the expensive postage.  Mine is FEDEX Air.  Anyway, it's a better shipping cost than Mary's.  Hers was $61 shipping for one or ten.  The website I used was: http://www.bjccwy.com

I found this company on Aliexpress.  Aliexpress was one of the sites recommended by Power To Be.

I'm finding that most of the transducer sites won't get back to me for whatever reason.
Title: Power To Be Query
Post by: Slovenia on April 28, 2011, 12:58:09 PM
Hi Power To Be,

I hope you are still hanging around.  You mentioned in one of your posts that the transducers needed to be attached in a certain way inside the cell but you didn't explain how.  Would you please elaborate on that.  Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on April 30, 2011, 06:33:53 AM
Hey Solvenia,

Sorry I have been busy this week with my cdi.  My brother and I figured out how to delay the firing of the ignition by intercepting the ecm signal for a few ms.  Since it wasn't running right because it was firing too soon.  Then we wanna change the injector pulse width by intercepting it and make it shorter by 1 - 2 ms to force lean.  I have some krupa plugs on the way now too.  I also am working on my mag heater changing a box fan into a heater.   I wanted to share this link with you it is very similar to what power to be has proposed and it put some new ideas in my head.  I think about this stuff everyday and work on it when I can. 
http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=210

I'm glad you received your parts so you can start having some fun.    Did you notice power to be hasn't been online here since april 12th?  I wonder what he's up too?

I still can't figure out how to really attach zinc to a substrate.  I draw a blank on what material to use.
chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on April 30, 2011, 01:00:44 PM
Hey Solvenia,

Sorry I have been busy this week with my cdi.  My brother and I figured out how to delay the firing of the ignition by intercepting the ecm signal for a few ms.  Since it wasn't running right because it was firing too soon.  Then we wanna change the injector pulse width by intercepting it and make it shorter by 1 - 2 ms to force lean.  I have some krupa plugs on the way now too.  I also am working on my mag heater changing a box fan into a heater.   I wanted to share this link with you it is very similar to what power to be has proposed and it put some new ideas in my head.  I think about this stuff everyday and work on it when I can. 
http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=210

I'm glad you received your parts so you can start having some fun.    Did you notice power to be hasn't been online here since april 12th?  I wonder what he's up too?

I still can't figure out how to really attach zinc to a substrate.  I draw a blank on what material to use.
chris

Chris,

I am interested in the Mag Heater can you please post some direct links to how its constructed. I have looked all over but cant seem to find any information.

Thanks!

-Altrez
Title: Power To Be
Post by: Slovenia on April 30, 2011, 02:37:51 PM
Hi Chris,

Wow, Krupa plugs.  How do some of the rest of us get hooked up with your supplier?  Thanks.

Hopefully Power To Be is still in the wings waiting for us to show him some good results before he will respond.  I know he was very frustrated because everyone wasn't duplicating his stuff quickly and showing positive results.  He gave us much information but with many loose ends, so I hope he will be willing to share some more information with us soon.  My problem is that I'm just as interested in his higher self info as I am in this projects info, so my interests are split in the middle which is slowing me down because I have spent as much time as I could in both areas.  I figure if I figure out how to utilize that power he kept referring to that it would really help me with this project.  Anyway, I've found a lot of dead ends with respect to the higher self thing and so that's caused some frustration for me. 

With regard to my parts, they have all arrived for the JT now and also my function generator has arrived.  My wiring setup is a real mess, so I'm going to have to redo it on some hardboard to tidy it up.

Thanks for sharing your results.

It looks like most of the guys who were interested in this project have either dropped out or decided to go their own way.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Hey Solvenia,

Sorry I have been busy this week with my cdi.  My brother and I figured out how to delay the firing of the ignition by intercepting the ecm signal for a few ms.  Since it wasn't running right because it was firing too soon.  Then we wanna change the injector pulse width by intercepting it and make it shorter by 1 - 2 ms to force lean.  I have some krupa plugs on the way now too.  I also am working on my mag heater changing a box fan into a heater.   I wanted to share this link with you it is very similar to what power to be has proposed and it put some new ideas in my head.  I think about this stuff everyday and work on it when I can. 
http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=210

I'm glad you received your parts so you can start having some fun.    Did you notice power to be hasn't been online here since april 12th?  I wonder what he's up too?

I still can't figure out how to really attach zinc to a substrate.  I draw a blank on what material to use.
chris
Title: Chinese Co Engineer
Post by: Slovenia on April 30, 2011, 02:44:43 PM
The Chinese company I purchased my transducer from had me contact their engineer and he said he could help us with regard to any transducer question.  So, he might be able to help us get the exact transducer we need for this project.  This company does not manufacture a 45 KHz transducer but they make about every other kind.  I might be able to convince him to make us the exact frequency range we need but for starters, he might make us some 45 KHz.  I'll check into that.  He's a really nice guy and very interested in this project.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Blue_serge_00 on April 30, 2011, 05:24:36 PM
Hello to everyone!

I have been following this thread and the one on Energetic Forum for awhile now and I wanted to share my progress with everyone.

Crystals:

I created my crystals using the process described by "Power to be".

I used household cleaning ammonium (1.5L) bought from Wal-Mart. There was no indication as to what percentage of ammonium was inside the solution so I processed it until I got a very strong solution. I basically just froze the household ammonium in the freezer to 0 degrees then kept it in the freezer for another hour so the water freezes but not the ammonium. Then I just poured out the frozen solution through a coffee filter to eliminate the ice from the solution. I repeated this process about 4 times to get a strong concentration of ammonium. Unfortunately I have no clue as to the percentage, but I can tell you this. If you get your eyes or nose anywhere close to the solution it will burn and you will smell ammonium for the next couple of hours. Not a pleasant smell, so I caution everyone working with ammonium.

I mixed about 30 grams of Zinc Oxide nano power bought from http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-104/Zinc-Oxide-Powder-1/Detail with 300ml of ammonium. I used a magnetic stirrer for about 30mins to mix the powder properly then capped the solution. Once mixed I placed the solution in the freezer at the coldest my fridge would go. Took a temperature reading around 2 hours later and it was 0 degrees. I left it in the freezer for another hour before doing the reflux.

Once the solution was taken out of the freezer I placed it in a water bath at room temperature for about 15 minutes. Then I placed the water bath and the solution on top of a hot plate and brought the temperature inside the solution to 60 degrees (temperature reading was taken with an infrared meter). Once it reached 60 degrees I started the timer for 2 hours with the reflux tube setup. I also made a second batch and did not use a reflux tube. Instead, I caped the opening of the flask with a surgical glove and just watched the expansion of the glove as an indication of pressure inside. I also placed a cold wet paper towel over the glove to reduce the pressure inside the flask. You need to have some pressure inside the container while you are cooking it for 2 hours at 60 degrees because I believe the pressure it the key to combining ammonium and zinc oxide together. I studied a bit of Walter Russell's work and according to his chemical chart there needs to be pressure to combine these two elements (I don't know if this is correct but it makes sense to me).

Once I finished cooking for 2 hours I let the solution rest for about 2 hours. The Zinc will settle to the bottom at which point I poured out the clear solution into another flask for later use. I then poured about the Zinc solution into couple of Petri dished and left them by my window to dry out. It took about 2 days for the Zinc to dry out and form crystals. They still look like Zinc Oxide power but they feel coarse to the touch unlike the Zinc nano powder.

Atomizing Chamber:

I constructed my water tank with a 2 inch diameter PVC tube with a height of 5 inches. I purchased my transducer from http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html and got their M001 model which had a 20mm disc. The transducer was placed at the bottom of the tube and the tube was capped off on the top end. I drilled 2 holes on the top end cap. One was for the output to the air intake of engine and the second one was for the wire leading out from the transducer. The transducer by the way was operating at 1.7Mhz @ 24V (factory default). I also just dropped the crystals into the water directly. I did not have any suitable material to attach the crystals to.

I started with a leaf blower engine which was a 2 stroke engine with 1 spark plug. I started the engine first with gas then tried to connect the output tube from the atomizing chamber to the air intake. At first the engine shut off as soon as I connected the tube. I realized there wasn't enough air to the engine, so I drilled another whole on the end cap of the PVC tube so a vacuum is created and more air can flow into the engine from the atomizing chamber. I started the engine again and connected the tube from the atomizing chamber to the air intake and the engine did not stop. I wanted to see if the RPM would increase at idle when I connected the tube from the atomizing chamber. It did not. The engine sounded like it was struggling as though it wanted to increase in RMP but kept dropping back down to idle speed. I don't have a RMP meter so I had to use my ear instead. I can also visually see atomized water being sucked into the engine through the tube. I stopped the test at this point because I realized some problems with my design for the atomizing chamber.

Here is my conclusion:

The atomizing chamber needs to have more surface area so enough gas can be produced for the specific engine we need to work with. The consumption rate must much the engine. My 2 inch diameter PVC tube was just not cutting it.

Also the transducers can only operate with a water level about 2 inches from its surface. Anything more and the water will not be atomized. Which lead me to the conclusion I need a rectangular shaped chamber. The water level has to be about 2 inches above the transducer and I also need another 1 inch of spacing above the water level so there is room for the atomized water to occupy. I had decided for my next chamber I will use a 12 inch by 6 inch rectangular shape with a height of 4 inches. 1 inch for the transducer, 2 inches for the water and 1 inch of spacing for the atomized water.

I also think the crystals are not resonating properly at 1.7Mhz. I will create a new circuit for the transducer so I can bring the frequency down to about 44KHz to 60KHz and up the voltage from 24V to 36V. For the next chamber I will also use 3 transducers wired in parallel at 36V with a lower frequency. I have a function generation as well which I will use to test different frequencies for the highest HHO production rate. I will post that data once I done the tests. 

Also the water becomes somewhat thick when the crystals are dropped directly into it. The transducer was having problems atomizing the water. So I would suggest the crystals should be attached to something and placed about ½ inch over the transducer. I was thinking of electroplating a metal plate but I don’t have any experience in this area. I would appreciate help if anyone knows how to electroplate these crystals to a metal plate properly. Or if someone has a better idea about how these crystals should be attached and what materials I should use, I’m all ears.

By the way there was some Hydrogen production from the chamber I built. I tested this by running the output tube into a beer can held upside down then igniting inside of the beer can. There was a very small burst of flame. This also indicates there was not enough hydrogen production from my chamber and this could be due to many reasons. Hopefully my next chamber will produce some better results.

Questions for “Power to Be”

If “Power to be” is still around I could use some input as to why there was not enough hydrogen produced from my build and if I heading in the right direction.
1.   Should I use bigger transducers discs?
2.   Is the problem due to surface area of the atomized water?
3.   Can you suggest a better method for the crystal placement?
4.   I also created a dome shaped receiver from brass metal which I was going to attach the crystals to and place the receiver just above the transducer. This way the wave would bounce off the receiver dome and be directed back down again to the floor of the atomizing chamber then back up again to the surface of the water. Would this increase HHO production?

On a final note,

Guys don’t give up on this method of hydrogen production because the concept does work but it still needs more refining before we get higher production rates. Fortunately I have the resources financially and time wise to work on this project. So any suggestions will also be appreciated from everyone. I will keep you guys posted on my progress and will post some pictures later.

Thank you and good luck to everyone.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: e2matrix on April 30, 2011, 08:47:25 PM
Thanks Blue_serge_00 for posting your results in such a well documented manner.  A couple of thoughts I'll mention.  I think we may do better with ignition of both H and water fog if we are using a much hotter spark than normal.  A Plasma spark would be ideal for this as there is a lot of evidence it directly ignites the water which is in a fog or ultrasonic mist state. 
   I do think we definitely need a fair sized container as you concluded and I think some larger or additional ultrasonic units will be needed for most any size engine.

 I have mentioned using silicone as a way to attach crystals to a container but I don't know if it will be a good way or not.  I know it will work to attach them and be waterproof but I'm not sure if it is a good idea from the resonance standpoint.  I would simply get a $4 (more or less) 10 ounce caulking gun size tube of silicone and smear it all over a surface in your container and then sprinkle the Zinc oxide crystals onto it.  You have about 10 minutes working time at least after putting on the silicone to sprinkle on your Zinc oxide crystals although the sooner you can do it the better I believe.  I have not tried this so I'm just taking a guess on this but I have used 100% silicone for many projects and find it easy and cheap to work with. 
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Blue_serge_00 on April 30, 2011, 09:23:11 PM
Thank for the feedback. I will try silcon next and see if that works. The spark plug was the other problem as well. I will look into a plasma spark plug. Thanks again for the idea.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on May 01, 2011, 12:37:10 PM
Hi Blue_serge,

Thanks for sharing with us.  I had computer problems yesterday or I would have responded then.  Anyway, Power To Be left a lot of details in his posts all over the place that talk to a lot of some of the questions you are asking.  Do you have a copy of my compilation on all of Power To Be's posts?  It's a lot of reading at 168 pages but it tells us a lot of stuff.  That is all his information from about five separate threads on Energetic Forum and this thread on OU.  Anyway, I would like to help you if I may.  You have the resources and are willing to help us all and since I put together all the archived files on Power To Be, I remember a lot of what he posted.  Let me know if I can help you with any clarification.  You can just pm me if you like.  Here is a link to where you can download Power To Be's compilation of posts.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52177573/Compilation-of-Power1-Posts

Thanks again for sharing with us.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Thank for the feedback. I will try silcon next and see if that works. The spark plug was the other problem as well. I will look into a plasma spark plug. Thanks again for the idea.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on May 01, 2011, 08:30:17 PM
Solvenia and Altrez,
To make a krupa plug you need a tig welder so you can weld a blob of inconel on the tip of the electrode.  I bought NGK   7317 plugs they are a resistorless racing plug.  You need some dremel sanders to help shape the blob.  I have a friend with the tig welder so he's gonna do that part then I'll chuck them in a drill and turn them until they have a nice dome shape to them.  I will be careful not to breathe the filings cause I guess they are pretty toxic.   

Altrez if you go to magtransauto.com and look under the albertson link on the left side and scroll down you'll see an example of what I'm talking about.  I tried the box fan motor but it is a tad too weak and doesn't spin fast enough.  Its rated at 2.4 amps and about 1800 rpm.  So far I found about 3000 rpm and a motor that draws 3.5 amps or higher works the best. Drill press motor seems to have enough torque and speed with pulleys to make lots of heat.  It also doesn't draw too much current.  If send me your email I could send you some pics of what I got.  Don't want to get off topic too much here.  Since your into electrical engineering did you have a look at the article I posted?  I figure I'll learn a lot from trying it out.  All this stuff seems tied together high voltage potential low current and frequencies.  There isn't any one frequency but many that work.  It varies with water levels and capacitence in the cell.  Maybe your the one who could design the microprocessor to maintain the system?
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: altrez on May 02, 2011, 04:54:59 PM
Solvenia and Altrez,
To make a krupa plug you need a tig welder so you can weld a blob of inconel on the tip of the electrode.  I bought NGK   7317 plugs they are a resistorless racing plug.  You need some dremel sanders to help shape the blob.  I have a friend with the tig welder so he's gonna do that part then I'll chuck them in a drill and turn them until they have a nice dome shape to them.  I will be careful not to breathe the filings cause I guess they are pretty toxic.   

Altrez if you go to magtransauto.com and look under the albertson link on the left side and scroll down you'll see an example of what I'm talking about.  I tried the box fan motor but it is a tad too weak and doesn't spin fast enough.  Its rated at 2.4 amps and about 1800 rpm.  So far I found about 3000 rpm and a motor that draws 3.5 amps or higher works the best. Drill press motor seems to have enough torque and speed with pulleys to make lots of heat.  It also doesn't draw too much current.  If send me your email I could send you some pics of what I got.  Don't want to get off topic too much here.  Since your into electrical engineering did you have a look at the article I posted?  I figure I'll learn a lot from trying it out.  All this stuff seems tied together high voltage potential low current and frequencies.  There isn't any one frequency but many that work.  It varies with water levels and capacitence in the cell.  Maybe your the one who could design the microprocessor to maintain the system?

I could defiantly program the microprocessor. I will send you my email. I never could get the rar to work. I have winrar an don't have any issues with any other files. Can you post just the files?

-Altrez
Title: 40 KHz Transducer Arrived from China
Post by: Slovenia on May 02, 2011, 04:55:41 PM
Well, today my 40 KHz transducer arrived from China.  It's quite a spectacular assembly for $6.50.  It's very well machined and manufactured.  I'll put some pics up later.

Power To Be, I hope you are still around.  You said in one of your posts that the transducers had to be attached in the cells in a particular way, and that you would share how to do that.  Well, I am ready to attach mine and have no idea what I'm doing with that aspect.  Thanks for any light you are willing to share on this.  I hope you are very well!!  You opened my eyes to many things.  I have a mentor now who is a genius trying to share with me about the consciousness aspects you shared.  Thanks so much for that info.!!

Title: Re: Power To Be Query
Post by: fishman on May 02, 2011, 05:07:14 PM
Hi Power To Be,

I hope you are still hanging around.  You mentioned in one of your posts that the transducers needed to be attached in a certain way inside the cell but you didn't explain how.  Would you please elaborate on that.  Thanks!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
FWIW
I'm not sure if this is what you are refereeing to. I think he did refer to a 15 degree angle.
It seems that most foggers have a little dimple on the bottom that  raises one side to get that 15 degree mark.
Title: Re: Power To Be Query
Post by: Slovenia on May 02, 2011, 05:53:41 PM
Hi Fishman,

What I have is the real deal, transducer, and not the fogger.  I have a fogger too, but saw it wasn't going to do what I wanted, so went ahead and purchased a transducer from China.  I'll post a pic of my transducer assembly later today.  Thanks for sharing!

Best Regards,
Slovenia



FWIW
I'm not sure if this is what you are refereeing to. I think he did refer to a 15 degree angle.
It seems that most foggers have a little dimple on the bottom that  raises one side to get that 15 degree mark.
Title: 40 KHz Transducer Pics
Post by: Slovenia on May 02, 2011, 06:16:17 PM
Here are my transducer pics:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2ivmz4.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/sy5j5d.jpg
Title: Re: 40 KHz Transducer Pics
Post by: altrez on May 03, 2011, 12:33:58 AM
Here are my transducer pics:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2ivmz4.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/sy5j5d.jpg

Nice!!

-Altrez
Title: Re: 40 KHz Transducer Pics
Post by: Slovenia on May 03, 2011, 12:54:16 AM
Hi Altrez,

Thanks!!  They didn't come with any information on how to use them and/or how to hook them up, so I'm going to have to contact Lissy in China and see if she can find out for me.

Thanks for all your help!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Nice!!

-Altrez
Title: 40 KHz Transducer
Post by: Slovenia on May 04, 2011, 11:09:18 PM
I got some more information from China on my transducer.  They sent me some pics of how they utilize them in their ultrasonic cleaners and welders, and they are not supposed to be in the water themselves.  They are attached with epoxy to the floor of the cleaner but on the bottom side of the floor where they are not exposed to water.  So, this is going to be interesting figuring out how to use them in a wet environment.  I'm going to have to build a water proof base for the bottom side of the transducer to keep it dry in the bottom of my cell.

The company had pcbs to drive the transducers too and they can build whatever we want but Lissy said that would cost more since it would be a custom build scenario.  Their shipping is less on one unit but more than the original place I mentioned where the shipping was $62 for 10 or 1 units.  The other place has exactly what we need but I didn't want to pay $62 shipping for one unit and I didn't want to order several units before I had conformation they would work for me.  So, that's where we are.

I asked what instructions the company had to go along with my transducer and they sent me the following four pics:

http://i56.tinypic.com/rk66uf.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/2s6alxj.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/11aj2fb.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/28krqfn.jpg
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on May 05, 2011, 04:35:42 AM
Solvenia,

Use your fogger first to vaporize the water then have your second transducer catch the vapor and turn it to its elemental hydrogen and oxygen.  This is the two stage idea I was talking about.

Do you think it possible to mix zinc in paint or primer and spread it onto a material (substrate)? 

I am trying to concentrate my efforts on the cdi at this point.  We are getting RF from using resistorless copper wires and ghost firing.  So we are going to try fine wire braid on the plug wires and ground it to the engine block for shielding and try a tvs diode on the trigger. 

Chris
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on May 05, 2011, 02:01:13 PM
Hi Chris,

Good to hear from you.  It sounds like you are having a lot of fun.  With regard to the zinc crystals, I do believe that they need to be contained in some sort of envelope as initially suggested by Power To Be.  He did mention that he had utilized a way of adhering them to some surfaces but he was not explicit in how he accomplished it.  I do know that the zinc crystals have to be under water to work most effectively.  I've seen that in Power To Be posts several times.  Initially I thought we were supposed to coat the receiver bowl at the top of the cell and then decided the brass receiver bowl was to direct the signal back down into the water for optimum results.

Thanks for the suggestion about the fogger.

Thanks for sharing with us.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Solvenia,

Use your fogger first to vaporize the water then have your second transducer catch the vapor and turn it to its elemental hydrogen and oxygen.  This is the two stage idea I was talking about.

Do you think it possible to mix zinc in paint or primer and spread it onto a material (substrate)? 

I am trying to concentrate my efforts on the cdi at this point.  We are getting RF from using resistorless copper wires and ghost firing.  So we are going to try fine wire braid on the plug wires and ground it to the engine block for shielding and try a tvs diode on the trigger. 

Chris
Title: Re: Radiant Energy NOW, 24 hrs a day can be produced at home
Post by: kampen on May 07, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
Q: Any progress on this Radiant Energy NOW, 24 hrs a day can be produced at home??
..........
We will start this project ASAP, I do not want to overwhelm you with too much information.

Research has already been done on this, you can easily harvest 500 watts per meter square 24 hours a day. Let's do this people.


Radiant Energy NOW, 24 hrs a day can be produced at home with Lead Sulfide and Lead Oxide nano crystals.

The Power Elite will never make these technologies available to the public but you have the Power to make it happen.

The Sun bombards earth with energy daily, enormous amount of energy. For the so called 1000 watts per meter formula, typical Si photo-voltaic only harvest less that 20% of the visible spectrum, that is less than 10% or 100 watts per meter, that is simply absurd and insanely ridiculous.

Grow your own crystals that will work 24 hours daily, Radiant energy is the infra-red, X ray and Gamma Ray range, and you can tap into this energy source today if you choose to make a Change.
...........
Title: Re: Radiant Energy NOW, 24 hrs a day can be produced at home
Post by: Slovenia on May 08, 2011, 12:10:02 AM
Power To Be never got around to sharing this aspect with us.  I think he was waiting for all of us to get the water cell  with the zinc crystals and transducers running before he gave us the secrets associated with PbSO2 and how to apply them.  I think our brother Power To Be is gone now, so many of his secrets may remain lost to us unless we can learn how to activate the inner genius in all of us, that he talked about.

Q: Any progress on this Radiant Energy NOW, 24 hrs a day can be produced at home??
..........
We will start this project ASAP, I do not want to overwhelm you with too much information.

Research has already been done on this, you can easily harvest 500 watts per meter square 24 hours a day. Let's do this people.


Radiant Energy NOW, 24 hrs a day can be produced at home with Lead Sulfide and Lead Oxide nano crystals.

The Power Elite will never make these technologies available to the public but you have the Power to make it happen.

The Sun bombards earth with energy daily, enormous amount of energy. For the so called 1000 watts per meter formula, typical Si photo-voltaic only harvest less that 20% of the visible spectrum, that is less than 10% or 100 watts per meter, that is simply absurd and insanely ridiculous.

Grow your own crystals that will work 24 hours daily, Radiant energy is the infra-red, X ray and Gamma Ray range, and you can tap into this energy source today if you choose to make a Change.
...........
Title: Transducer & Water Contact
Post by: Slovenia on May 12, 2011, 12:41:35 PM
I got back in contact with the company that manufactured my 40 KHz transducer.  I specifically asked them about the transducer in regards to it's contact with water and they told me that under no circumstances was any part of their transducer to come into contact with water.  They said the transducer needed to be mounted to a stainless steel panel at the base of the water cell on the outside of the water.

For full effect of the transducer, I was really wanting to place the ceramic piezo directly into contact with the water at the bottom of my cell.

This is evidently why Power To Be designed his own horn housing for his ceramic piezos and mounted them a certain way.  It's just another hurdle to cross but we can do it.

Manufacturing Companies Recommended Mounting Method: 
http://i51.tinypic.com/9k5o4z.jpg
Title: Project Update
Post by: Slovenia on May 16, 2011, 04:33:36 AM
I had a serious setback.  My oscilloscope shot craps on me and I can't afford to have it serviced at this time.  The fuse did not blow and the on light still lights up when the machine is turned on.  Also, you can hear a slight hum of the transformer inside the unit.  There is no longer the presence of a trace on the CRT screen.  You can see lights inside the screen if you fully illuminate the trace switch, but the CRT screen no longer operates.  So, I don't know what went south with my machine and am still trying to ascertain that.  I've been reviewing a lot of oscilloscope troubleshooting manuals but so far to no avail.  Anyway, I wanted to let you know I was still alive and still interested in this project.

Power To Be left so many interesting tangents to look into that I've been having a hard time just focusing on the project at hand.  I want it all and he opened my eyes to many things but the research takes a lot of time and I still haven't figured out how to tap the higher self to the degree I'd like to.  My knowledge is gaining in that area but I'm still not there yet.   
Title: Re: Project Update
Post by: TEKTRON on May 16, 2011, 06:00:00 AM
I had a serious setback.  My oscilloscope shot craps on me and I can't afford to have it serviced at this time.  The fuse did not blow and the on light still lights up when the machine is turned on.  Also, you can hear a slight hum of the transformer inside the unit.  There is no longer the presence of a trace on the CRT screen.  You can see lights inside the screen if you fully illuminate the trace switch, but the CRT screen no longer operates.  So, I don't know what went south with my machine and am still trying to ascertain that.  I've been reviewing a lot of oscilloscope troubleshooting manuals but so far to no avail.  Anyway, I wanted to let you know I was still alive and still interested in this project.

Power To Be left so many interesting tangents to look into that I've been having a hard time just focusing on the project at hand.  I want it all and he opened my eyes to many things but the research takes a lot of time and I still haven't figured out how to tap the higher self to the degree I'd like to.  My knowledge is gaining in that area but I'm still not there yet.



David, What a bummer but if I were in your shoes, I think I'd crack it open and look for a bad solder joint at the HV supply. Couldn't hurt :'(
Title: Re: Project Update
Post by: Slovenia on May 16, 2011, 01:31:05 PM

Textron,

Thanks for the help.   It's a very nice scope and I really don't want to get rid of it so I'll have a look at it.

Best Regards,
Slovenia



David, What a bummer but if I were in your shoes, I think I'd crack it open and look for a bad solder joint at the HV supply. Couldn't hurt :'(
Title: Re: Scope Update
Post by: Slovenia on May 16, 2011, 07:41:05 PM
Hi Textron,

After taking my scope apart and checking the transformer, my scope is now giving me a split second trace on screen when I flip the time/div switch.  The trace is there for a split second and then gone.  Do you have any idea what this means?  Thanks for your help.

The trace is all over the place too, not just in the same place every time I switch the time/div switch around.  Thanks.

Best Regards,
Slovenia



David, What a bummer but if I were in your shoes, I think I'd crack it open and look for a bad solder joint at the HV supply. Couldn't hurt :'(
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: TEKTRON on May 17, 2011, 12:39:04 AM
No I don't sorry :'(
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on May 17, 2011, 02:49:09 AM
Thanks anyway Textron!!

No I don't sorry :'(
Title: Dead Thread
Post by: Slovenia on May 17, 2011, 03:39:02 PM
I have a recommendation.  This thread is dying and that's for sure.  Everyone is going there own way it would appear and many are not posting their results if they are still interested in this technology of Power To Be.  Anyway, my recommendation is that the few of us who are interested in seeing this tech through get together on our own website and be more of a small team scenario.  Most are not sharing here and so it becomes frustrating for folks like me who have put a lot of time and effort into this.  There are a few of you who I appreciate very much for what you have shared and done.  We need to help each other to keep this tech alive.  I've had some setbacks which has messed up my time  table big time.  We need to have a small group of folks who are willing to share and encourage each other.  We can always share what we come up with at this site, Over Unity.  PM me if you want to set up a closed site for serious experimenters.  If we get even three guys or gals who want to do this, I'll set up the site.  Contrary to what Power To Be says, these small sites work a lot better than the big ones.  I worked on them for years and we accomplished a lot of stuff together.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: superman9976 on May 20, 2011, 05:49:04 AM
Sorry Solvenia,

I sent power to be a message and never replied back.  I am concentrating my work on one project the plasma ignition.  Need to get it going then I will have revenue for other things.  Have you looked into the don smith stuff?  I ran out of ideas for this thread and don't have quite enough info to put something that works together.  I finally got a hold of the guy with the mag heater but told me he wont have them ready till the fall.  I also have a guy working with me on machining the krupa plugs. 

send PM if you want my email.
Chris
Title: 4 of Us
Post by: Slovenia on May 20, 2011, 03:59:37 PM
Hi Chris,

Nice to hear back from you.  There's now only about four of us that I know of who are still working on this project.  Maybe everyone else went their own way like Power1 suggested.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: TEKTRON on May 20, 2011, 09:25:34 PM
No, I think they're all over here...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.new
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on May 21, 2011, 12:03:26 AM
Hi Textron,

Could be.  That machine looks a little to hard and expensive for the average experimenter though.  I recognize some of those guys, posters, from IonizationX.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


No, I think they're all over here...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.new
Title: What We Know vs What We Don't Know (Power To Be Application)
Post by: Slovenia on May 31, 2011, 05:29:56 PM
What We Know:

1) The optimum voltage for running the cell is 36 volts. Power1 converted 12 volts to 36 volts with his circuit.

2) Recipe for making zinc crystals.

3) Optimum frequency of 42.8 KHz

4) Power1's transducer is a 45 KHz unit

5) Transducer should be inside the cell, so it needs to be immersible.

6) Cylindrical tank/cell lends itself to runaway reactions.

7) Should have a transducer horn of brass and a receiver of brass.

8) The cell only uses tap water.

9) Use only Krupa plugs or other high quality plasma plugs.

10) He recommended utilizing the JT Circuit & Pierce Circuit in the cell application. He said complicated circuits were not necessary and recommended using the easiest methods possible.

11) Zinc crystals need to be in the cells water for optimum results.

12) We need to read all Power1's required reading especialy the "Treatise of Physics & Chemistry", so that we'll be on the same page with Power1. Otherwise, he said we are wasting his time.


What We Don't Know:

1) The actual configuration of power1's cell.

2) We don't know the actual configuration of his transducer.

3) How he plated his zinc crystals onto surfaces.

4) Which surfaces he coated with the zinc crystals.

5) Anything about his lead sulfide 24/7 battery cell that collected all the energy. This was to be the next project he talked about.



Feel free to add to this list and share ideas and answers!!!
Title: Activity on This Thread At Energetic Forum
Post by: Slovenia on May 31, 2011, 07:14:51 PM
There is finally a little activity on this thread at Energetic Forum, so if you are interested go to the following link and check it out.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-24.html
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on June 02, 2011, 12:22:56 AM
Things are starting to cook at Energetic Forum again today with regard to Power1's device.  Check it out and share with us too.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-24.html
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on July 04, 2011, 12:08:06 AM
Connect With Your Inner Intelligence (How It's Done Book)
I have found the book that will help you connect with your inner intelligence at Power1 eluded to. Here is a link to the book, "The Power of Your Subconscious Mind".

http://www.ichoosetoheal.com/downloads/the-power-of-your-subconscious-mind.pdf

I've been reading this book and think it is truly an incredibly worthwhile read.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: bugler on July 04, 2011, 12:23:40 AM
Hi Slovenia,

this is bugler. I was banned from energeticforum by jew Aaron for daring to expose the jewish criminal network.

These jews are everywhere protecting the crimes of their people so the rest won't find out about it and keep paying taxes and interes forever while they kill us all.
Title: Power To Be Update
Post by: Slovenia on July 04, 2011, 04:31:49 AM
Power To Be is no longer a member of OU.

I tried to pm him today and got the message back that my pm was not deliverable to a Power To Be.
So, that explains at least one thing.  I wonder if he was kicked off this site too.

Does anyone know?  Thanks.
Title: KEY
Post by: Slovenia on July 07, 2011, 01:25:02 AM
The "Key" to understanding all of Power To Be's secrets and activating the power power of your own mind is something that has been known for a long time but kept from us intentionally.  That KEY, secret, is the subconscious mind.  If you know how to utilize your subconscious mind you can do anything and/or become anything you want.  Just knowing the subconscious mind is the secret is not enough to make you successful.  You have to know how to apply your subconscious mind properly.  There is a free book available for download that will guide you through the steps of activating your subconscious mind properly.  The name of the book is, "The Power of Your Subconscious Mind", and the book can be downloaded from the following link. 

http://www.ichoosetoheal.com/downloads/the-power-of-your-subconscious-mind.pdf

This is a very exciting book indeed.
Title: This Works!!
Post by: Slovenia on July 07, 2011, 01:36:31 AM
I've been applying what I learned from this book for two weeks now and I just got $1600 out of thin air and my understanding of Power1's art has greatly improved too.

It does work.  I never had anything like that happen to me before.
Title: Re: This Works!!
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 07, 2011, 02:01:04 AM
I've been applying what I learned from this book for two weeks now and I just got $1600 out of thin air and my understanding of Power1's art has greatly improved too.

It does work.  I never had anything like that happen to me before.

you are either a doer or a not doer or just dam lucky, doers make things happen, non doers don't, they just want it to happen but both doers and non doers can be just as lucky.

you either give up your failures to seek out success-fullness or you don't.

everyone's choice.

since most humans don't migrate anymore their success rate in survival has lessened because they trap themselves in a burdened area for reasons that they may own some land and wish to stay put.

you trap yourselves not un-like your ancestors did. besides, if you pay taxes on an object you are just renting it, you really don't own it. your just renting it from your ruler. the ruler by count owns everything taxed.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on July 07, 2011, 03:02:15 AM
Oh well, whatever.
Title: Power1's Secret
Post by: Slovenia on August 12, 2011, 05:14:29 PM
I think I've found Power To Be's secret.  If there is any interest I'll post a link to Energetic Forum where I posted this information already.

Things are still going on with this thread but most folks are now not sharing for whatever reason.  There are only five of us I know of still working on this project.
Title: Power To Be Message
Post by: Slovenia on August 13, 2011, 10:18:21 PM
Thanks so much for taking the time to share with us Power To Be.  I know you were treated very poorly by many and yet you stayed with us for a while and shared great information and insight with us.  You opened my eyes to many other things which until you share with us were unknown factors to me.  I wanted to thank you again for sharing all your great information with us.  I am now spending much more time studying about some of the other things you shared with us than the piezo transducer scenario.

I'm also pretty sure that I discovered the secret you referred to but wouldn't elaborate on.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on August 14, 2011, 03:26:27 AM
Slovenia
Can you discuss your findings?I know you spent a lot of resources pursuing this!
What can be done with this Tech?

Thank You
Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Slovenia on August 14, 2011, 05:21:58 AM
Hi Chet,

Yes, I'm happy to discus my findings.  I have spent a lot of time researching the many leads Power To Be gave us in his posts.  He was vague on the most important aspects such as the secret of the universe.  The main thing I was looking for was superior knowledge and understanding that would enable me to better achieve my goal of finding a free energy source for both electricity and a way of utilizing water as a fuel.  Power kept giving hints of how to achieve this without really getting that specific but my interest was really caught in this area.  I wanted this aspect very badly.  What I have found is a method for gaining superior knowledge and riches, (i.e.: Book of Aquarius).  It is a book on alchemy and tells how to make the philosopher's stone.  If you go to the following link you can download audio files of the complete book and/or a pdf file of the book.  It is a very fascinating book and I do believe the real deal.   

http://bookofaquarius.forgottenbooks.org/

I am going to make this stone myself.  If you go to this other link, you'll see my recent posts to Energetic Forum.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7365-discussion-best-way-use-heat-hho-generate-electricity-25.html

I am in the process of trying to open my 3rd eye right now and appear to getting some great results.  I'm starting to feel much more intuitive but I have the worst migrains now.  Supposedly they indicate that I am on the right track.  With the 3rd eye open, you become much smarter supposedly.

P.S.:  Thanks for your interest.  I have other things I could share but I'd prefer to share them in a pm if you want more info..

Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia
Can you discuss your findings?I know you spent a lot of resources pursuing this!
What can be done with this Tech?

Thank You
Chet
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: ramset on August 14, 2011, 10:06:41 AM
Slovenia
Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts,I do not feel "led" to explore "my third eye" ,I feel some are inclined this way ...
It scares me![being very serious]
  I feel We are spiritual beings in worldly bodies ,and I'm a chicken when it comes to leaving this one and wandering around ,I'll spend a lot of time out of this body someday ,I don't want to "rush it",I prefer to Savor it, all the aches all the pain all the good and all the bad.

I COMPLETELY RESPECT YOUR CHOICE!!

I will Pm you later

Your friend
Chetkremens@gmail.com
Title: Infinite Knowledge of The Ages
Post by: Slovenia on August 14, 2011, 02:13:57 PM
Hi Chet,

I'm looking for the infinite knowledge mostly but good health and gold or silver would be nice too.  I'm not looking for out of body experiences even though they may be a side effect of my study.

I'm primarily interested in the philosopher's stone but have heard good things about the 3rd eye too.  It will take at least 18 months to make the philosopher's s tone and so in the mean time I need a backup plan.  I don't want to wait 18 months for my free energy devices.

Thanks for your interest.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: imburner on November 08, 2011, 04:46:43 AM
Any replication attempts recently? I am finishing up my car project then I am making this a priority!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: pro unity on January 29, 2013, 05:16:53 AM
Hi there! I read almost all the posts regarding this discovery and also read the uploaded docs in scribd. Thanks to Power To Be for sharing this in public.
I do have some sources here in my location for the ZnO powder and some 'mist maker' piezo-type transducer.
I could not find a stainless piezo transducer most are made of thin brass...but I think this will last in water? can't wait to cook some crystals :-)
more power! *just excited*

-jun
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: pro unity on January 30, 2013, 05:29:50 AM
ooopppssss.....I'm outdated! sorry and thank you...
a lesson learned -- next time I have to take in account of 'dates' :-)

more power!
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: abarghouie on January 03, 2015, 09:02:18 AM
Dear Sir : Thanks for your useful suggestion and effective process , dear sir i have couple question appreciate to get your valuable response .
 
1- For generating HHO via piezo ultrasonic transducer what i have understand is first via fog generating apparatus create fog or water mist then again by secondary chamber which mist are there using piezo ultrasonic transducer having zno cristal plate as vibrator about 43khz splitting mist to hho please tell me if the process is correct and be happy to be consulted if there are any further suggestion.
Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: DeepCut on October 28, 2016, 06:52:28 PM
I haven't read the whole thread yet, but i'm wondering if people have tried this with barium-titanate in addition to the zinc-oxide ?


Best, DC.

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 08, 2021, 01:02:54 PM
Finally got ahold of one of these ultrasonic water atomizers
It has a 12-watt power supply which has to be considered
I would have to meter each of the modes to see what the draw is for each


There are LEDs and a control circuit with multiple modes and timers, light colors etc
Not sure what the minimum power requirements would be for a stripped down module
running in a single, constant mode.
The modes control preset flow rates of vapor
the timers are designed for the size of the 1-cup reservoir
(4-12 hrs)


Things to think about:
Size of the vapor electrolyzer chamber
vs flow rate and expansion/cooling, condensation,….


Back pressure? Evac of the production gas?
will the excess water in the gas lines be a problem for storage?
Will the water run-off in the storage container build up charges?
Will the water vapor interfere with open air burning/ compressed detonation?
Can we convert it directly back to electricity using a mixed-flow fuel cell?

Title: Re: Practical Method for Production of Water Fuel with Piezoelectric
Post by: Schauberger Viktor on July 04, 2022, 10:53:59 PM
https://t.me/gravitationisparticles