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Author Topic: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com  (Read 48943 times)

Offline Low-Q

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1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« on: February 10, 2011, 01:48:07 PM »
Hi all,

I got a request from @Neptune about posting a link to www.peswiki.com regarding a simple zero point energy thing:

Here it is:
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_Claus_W._Turtur:_Zero_Point_Energy_Converter_in_the_Kilowatt_Range

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« on: February 10, 2011, 01:48:07 PM »

turbo

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2011, 01:53:49 PM »
That's a rotary lifter.
Don't you see the sharp tips at the edges of the can?
It's just propelled by ion wind man.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 02:04:21 PM »
Maybe ;D I was just asked to help to create a new thread with this link. I have no clue whatsoever how this are suppose to work. Maybe some reading will help...

Vidar

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 02:04:21 PM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2011, 03:40:51 PM »
First of all many thanks to Low-Q for starting this thread . I wanted to do it myself , but do not have the necessary computer skills . It seems to me that  Prof Turtur is a very well educated man , and in this article ,he describes the basic theory behind a practical FE motor , first analysing several different designs , and pointing out their shortcomings . He then goes on to describe his final design , which consists of no more than a simple magnet revolving inside a simple coil , across which is connected a capacitor . He goes on to describe the theory of how and why it should work as a motor , and how it could drive a load of 1Kw .
         Obviously there is more to it than that , and he goes on to talk about resonance .[ we have heard that before] Somewhere in the article he suggests a max speed for the magnet rotation of 6000RPM . Now IF I understand him ,the Tank circuit formed by the coil and capacitor must have a resonant frequency of 100 Hz . Because the output of the alternator formed by the magnet and coil will be at 100Hz . Based on what I remember from my Amateur Radio days , This will cause practical problems . Notice that the coil is air cored . So to resonate at this frequency we will need a huge coil and a huge capacitor . Can someone who is good at mathematics work out the value of these components .The other possibility is to tune the circuit to a higher , harmonic frequency , but he does not mention this . Any Ideas?

Offline tak22

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2011, 03:41:35 PM »
Yes, reading is better, start here: http://philica.com/display_article.php?article_id=219

tak

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2011, 03:41:35 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2011, 06:01:16 PM »
First of all many thanks to Low-Q for starting this thread . I wanted to do it myself , but do not have the necessary computer skills . It seems to me that  Prof Turtur is a very well educated man , and in this article ,he describes the basic theory behind a practical FE motor , first analysing several different designs , and pointing out their shortcomings . He then goes on to describe his final design , which consists of no more than a simple magnet revolving inside a simple coil , across which is connected a capacitor . He goes on to describe the theory of how and why it should work as a motor , and how it could drive a load of 1Kw .
         Obviously there is more to it than that , and he goes on to talk about resonance .[ we have heard that before] Somewhere in the article he suggests a max speed for the magnet rotation of 6000RPM . Now IF I understand him ,the Tank circuit formed by the coil and capacitor must have a resonant frequency of 100 Hz . Because the output of the alternator formed by the magnet and coil will be at 100Hz . Based on what I remember from my Amateur Radio days , This will cause practical problems . Notice that the coil is air cored . So to resonate at this frequency we will need a huge coil and a huge capacitor . Can someone who is good at mathematics work out the value of these components .The other possibility is to tune the circuit to a higher , harmonic frequency , but he does not mention this . Any Ideas?
Frequency = 1 / 2 x PI x (root[C x L])

If the coil (L) are 100mH, then the capacitor (C) will be 25uF at 100Hz resonance. To achieve this capacitor with just two parallell plates, the area would cover a quite big area...

The Q-value should be as high as possible, and will depend on the load, and choise of inductor and capacitor. A lower inductor value, means greater capacitor to achieve same resonant frecuency.

When this circuit are loaded, the Q-value will drop, and it require more energy input to maintain the amplitude of that given frequency. Also a lower Q (Low-Q) will result in a different resonant frequency.

To achieve harmonic frequencies, you need to apply distordtion into the system, a non-linear component can do that. How to implement such a device, I do not know except using a coil with iron core. These coils will generate a significant harmonic distrortion at the point when the iron core are significantly saturated with magnetic flux as the amplitude of the signal increase and more current can flow through the windings.

Offline neptune

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 06:15:55 PM »
@marco. Your comments dont seem to relate to the article in question . Are you sure we are discussing the same article ? I dont see any cans , or sharp edges .

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 06:15:55 PM »
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Offline bourne

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 06:32:45 PM »
@marco. Your comments dont seem to relate to the article in question . Are you sure we are discussing the same article ? I dont see any cans , or sharp edges .

@neptune, marco is referring to the video about half way down the peswiki page. The video shows a cut down drinks can which has sharp edges bent out to form vanes.


Offline neptune

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 06:37:39 PM »
@Low-Q . once again I am indebted to you for your help .Thanks . I f you read the article very carefully , you will see that the capacitor does not have to be just two plates in the final version . The two plates design was for the earlier version . Never the less , we are talking a lot of capacitance at 25mf . An electrolytic capacitor is unsuitable . The author says a "commercial" capacitor is suitable ,but I would think that such a cap would be physically large . Same with the coil . I seem to recall that the author mentions a coil diameter of 7cms . Does anyone have any idea of the number of turns to achieve 100mH on a 7 cm former . As you rightly point out , the aim is a tank circuit with a high Q factor . This brings in to play , I seem to remember , coil shape factor [length/diameter ratio] and also , I think there is an optimum L to C  ratio . I do not say that these problems are insurmountable ,but the author talks about a unit the size of an electric drill . So it is not going to be as easy as building a crystal radio set ... On the other hand , If i built a 1Kw unit the size of a washing machine , I would be quite Happy .

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 06:37:39 PM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2011, 06:39:04 PM »
@bourne . Thanks.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2011, 06:59:30 PM »
@Low-Q . once again I am indebted to you for your help .Thanks . I f you read the article very carefully , you will see that the capacitor does not have to be just two plates in the final version . The two plates design was for the earlier version . Never the less , we are talking a lot of capacitance at 25mf . An electrolytic capacitor is unsuitable . The author says a "commercial" capacitor is suitable ,but I would think that such a cap would be physically large . Same with the coil . I seem to recall that the author mentions a coil diameter of 7cms . Does anyone have any idea of the number of turns to achieve 100mH on a 7 cm former . As you rightly point out , the aim is a tank circuit with a high Q factor . This brings in to play , I seem to remember , coil shape factor [length/diameter ratio] and also , I think there is an optimum L to C  ratio . I do not say that these problems are insurmountable ,but the author talks about a unit the size of an electric drill . So it is not going to be as easy as building a crystal radio set ... On the other hand , If i built a 1Kw unit the size of a washing machine , I would be quite Happy .
You can use a smaller inductor, like any value, but the capacitor must also be adjusted to the approperiate value to maintain same frequency. The smaller the inductor are, the less resistance, hence higher Q. A 100mH air core inductor at only 7cm in diameter means quite many turns of thin wire. Use an even bigger oil, thicker wire and less turns. Make the coil as short as possible to increase the inductivity further.
However, with a 1000uF capacitor you need only 2.5mH inductor to meet the requirement of 100Hz resonance. Now the inductor can be made maller, with less resistance, and higher Q. However, in such circuit, the current flowing through the components will increase greately compared to a bigger coil and smaller capacitor. What do you need? High or low current flow?

I guess a "suitable" balance in component values can provide the highest efficiency. What values these are, are depending on the mechanical system and the load.

Vidar

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2011, 06:59:30 PM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 07:34:18 PM »
@Low-Q . I have taken note of all the information you gave me . Thanks . It is true what you say about the highest efficiency being obtained by a suitable choice of component values . To start with , it would be enough to build a machine that would self rotate , without a load . Proof of concept . At this stage ,the actual current value would not matter as long as the wire used could carry it without melting . When we consider a load , we can then think about current and voltage . Initially ,the load could only consist of a purely resistive load with a neutral temperature coefficient , or it would de-tune the machine and stop it .
        In my radio days , I used a home made Grid Dip Oscillator to find the resonant frequency of tuned circuits . This method could not be used here due to the low frequency . One idea is to add a temporary extra feedback coil to the tank circuit , and build a one transistor audio oscillator . You could listen to the oscillation on headphones and compare it to the notes of an electric organ , or use a frequency counter . Although this device looks deceptively simple , I feel that success would only be achieved by someone who is very good at mathematics .

Offline neptune

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 08:08:48 PM »
Further to my last post . Re organ notes . find middle C , then work down one octave to the C below . now go down to the G below that . The frequency of that G is 98 Hz . Here is another thought . This design will either work or it will not work . Therefore , providing the tuned circuit has a reasonable Q , All you need to do is rotate the magnet by outside energy , and allow it to slow down until its speed is synchronised with the frequency of the tuned circuit . At this point it should "lock" and continue to run on its own . In practise this may need many tries . I remember trying to use a bicycle dynamo as a synchronous motor on a 6 volt 50 cycle supply . I could start it as above using a bit of string wound round the pulley , but the success rate was only about 10% .In the case of the zero point machine , it would be more difficult because the magnet has to turn at the correct speed for about 2 seconds for current to build up the electrical circuit .

Offline Low-Q

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2011, 10:15:14 PM »
I will make one with 10 pcs. 100uF capacitors in parallell (1000uF) and use a regular crossover coil for loudspeakers. 2.5mH air core. Our coils have less than 0.3 ohm resistance, which is good for a 2.5mH air core coil. Lucky for me, I work as an engineer in a loudspeaker company (dynaBel AS in Norway - this is happy me:http://www.dynabel.no/vidar-web.jpg, and have access to any parts needed to make a device such as this :)

Vidar.

Offline LightRider

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Re: 1 kW zero point energy @ Peswiki.com
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2011, 01:22:19 AM »
From the article... (final conception)

6000 RPM (magnet) mecanic part => 100Hz electric part

Coil:
1.0 mm^2 (wire)
n = 1600 turn
diamater of the coil 0.09m
length of the coil 0.01m

Capacitor:
0.23 E-6

magnet:
diam.: 2x (0.039m)
lenght: 0.01m
0.7 tesla
(iron +/- 7.8E3 density... unity ?)

LightRider

(information come form the source code)

 

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