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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: Butch LaFonte on January 31, 2011, 11:50:55 PM
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This link > http://www.youtube.com/user/LaFonteResearchGroup
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I think this concept could be along the right track in the fact that the disks never leave the field. Appears to be easy enough to test.
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Any design of a magnetic motor involving mechanical switching, such as this one, is doomed. Even @Roober33's which was one of the most interesting so far, much better in terms of handling frinction than the one under discussion, has mechanical problems which can hardly be overcome. The successful solution should be sought along the lines of Steorn's Orbo, using "switches" based on the inherent asymmetries in the materials used and avoiding mechanical overcoming the sticky spot like the plague. Mechanical magnet motors such as Torbay's, also a better design than the one proposed here, may work but the fine-tuning of such motors to make it work is hell of a job, barely possible under the substandard conditions almost everyone here is working.
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Any design of a magnetic motor involving mechanical switching, such as this one, is doomed. Even @Roober33's which was one of the most interesting so far, much better in terms of handling frinction than the one under discussion, has mechanical problems which can hardly be overcome. The successful solution should be sought along the lines of Steorn's Orbo, using "switches" based on the inherent asymmetries in the materials used and avoiding mechanical overcoming the sticky spot like the plague. Mechanical magnet motors such as Torbay's, also a better design than the one proposed here, may work but the fine-tuning of such motors to make it work is hell of a job, barely possible under the substandard conditions almost everyone here is working.
I agree this will likely not work well in a high speed application, but think of it as a power stroke of about 50Newtons about once a second, or maybe a method to extend a weight outward on a gravity wheel to obtain a continuous rotation with increased torque. There are plenty of uses for a large spring push if it takes no energy to rewind it!
Or possibly like a piston in a rotary wheel connected to a center cam and rotated as the wheel rotates much like the gravity wheel concept.
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I don't think that it would work at all due to the friction which cannot be overcome by the low excess energy produced. Many of us here have enough experience with these machines to know not to waste time with such designs.
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I can see what he intends with it. When collapsed and solid, easy to rotate. And when separated, the mag field is attracted to the more solid parts of the rotor. But, imagine trying to separate those plates, while in the pole face of the stator mag. Might be tough, let alone the time and speed in which it has to happen. ::)
I like the morphing rotor and the concept of neutralizing the rotor mechanically. But I think the morph would have to happen another way if possible.
Mags
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I don't think that it would work at all due to the friction which cannot be overcome by the low excess energy produced. Many of us here have enough experience with these machines to know not to waste time with such designs.
Yes, I agree that friction is an issue, but LOW output? Just two magnets 2" x 1" x .5" across 1" diameter disks will easily push 50 Newtons of force or about 5kg. This could spin a large flywheel on a crankshaft and the next stroke could rotate it back and compress it down to prepare for the next stroke. You could leave the disks stationary and rotate the magnets in a circle around them at 1/2 the flywheel speed. Power stroke then compression, just like an internal combustion engine. You could also add many of these around the flywheel for more power.
Of course, this is if the testing shows that indeed it takes no energy to compress as suggested.
At this point, talking is of little value without additional facts and contemplation of a working device is merely the suggestion from ones own ability to visualize a machine using the concept.
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I can see what he intends with it. When collapsed and solid, easy to rotate. And when separated, the mag field is attracted to the more solid parts of the rotor. But, imagine trying to separate those plates, while in the pole face of the stator mag. Might be tough, let alone the time and speed in which it has to happen. ::)
I like the morphing rotor and the concept of neutralizing the rotor mechanically. But I think the morph would have to happen another way if possible.
Mags
I understand it works like this.
With the bars at the magnet poles, the disks will compress easily making the rotor into a solid form that can rotate in the magnetic field easily.
Rotating so the disks are at the poles, the disks will expand and push apart for the energy stroke.
Once expanded, the rotor can still easily rotate to the bars since the attraction is higher to the bars.
Now you are at step one and almost no work was required but a large amount of energy was gained from the expansion of the disks.
To do this with little friction is essential but possible if all else stated is true.
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Oh, so the disks expand automatically when in the pole fields?
Mags
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Mr.LaFonte,
Does seem like a bit of Magic,the right kind of magic!
When you get it going will you post another Vid?
I hope so!
Thanks
Chet
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My last post wasnt meant to be cocky, I was asking because of this quote from lumen
"Rotating so the disks are at the poles, the disks will expand and push apart for the energy stroke."
By that I assumed you meant, it happens, expands, when the disks reach the poles. ;]
No that would be great.
Mags
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Yes, I agree that friction is an issue, but LOW output? Just two magnets 2" x 1" x .5" across 1" diameter disks will easily push 50 Newtons of force or about 5kg. This could spin a large flywheel on a crankshaft and the next stroke could rotate it back and compress it down to prepare for the next stroke. You could leave the disks stationary and rotate the magnets in a circle around them at 1/2 the flywheel speed. Power stroke then compression, just like an internal combustion engine. You could also add many of these around the flywheel for more power.
Of course, this is if the testing shows that indeed it takes no energy to compress as suggested.
At this point, talking is of little value without additional facts and contemplation of a working device is merely the suggestion from ones own ability to visualize a machine using the concept.
It may appear so at first sight but one usually forgets that there is a counteracting force which in most cases nullifies the effect you're talking about. In the constructions which are potential perpetuum mobile there is a discrepancy between the acting and counteracting forces which typically is very slight despite the enormous individual forces. As an illustration take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo . It is this differential or asymmetry which we are relying upon when trying to build a working pmm.
Now, because the said differential is very small it is an additional problem when it appears during rotational movement but needs to be used to overcome the sticky spot through translational movement, as in the construction at hand. The losses are enormous in such a construction and the meager excess energy obtained can in no way compete to overcome these losses. Therefore, like I said, such constructions should be abandoned for the time being mainly because f the substandard conditions almost everyone works under.
Not so in construction such as the one proposed by Steorn in their Orbo. In that case the excess energy is being obtained along the same mode of motion and, nevertheless, constructing a working model by independent parties poses difficulties (at present no one know as to whether or not Steorn themselves have a working one either).
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This link > http://www.youtube.com/user/LaFonteResearchGroup
Sorry, wont work. This is just another desktop dream that will not come true!
There is no "OU" forces making the rotor spinn by itself using this design.
Case closed.