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Author Topic: I need your design help please!  (Read 8473 times)

mountainman61

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I need your design help please!
« on: January 29, 2011, 05:09:51 AM »
Hello everyone!

I have been lurking for quiet some time now, and I gotta say...this is a great forum. I just can't seem to stop reading and go to bed though.

Anyway, If there was ever a place to get good advice, this is it.
So... here goes...I have built a small cabin in the woods and plan on living there full time this summer. I want/ need a small supply of power. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 or 5000 w/hrs will work. So 200 - 300 watts per hour generated 24 hrs a day would be great. First we must rule out solar because I don't get enough sun. Wind is out of the question too.

I will tell you my resources and abilities first and then my ideas. With your kind help and knowledge, maybe I can get there.

Resources:
65 acres of mountain land in Ky., 2 ponds side by side one about 15 foot above the other (not enough flow for hydro)
A nice shop with many tools, drill press, lathe, etc.
endless supply of trees, firewood/lumber via my sawmill.
I have very good mechanical skills and a decent understanding of basic electronics. However, I do not have the knowledge to carry out my ideas without costly trial and error because I lack the ability/ skill to calculate the outcome of the ideas first. This is where you guys come in!

My Ideas 1 of the following or a combination of them:
A large earth battery (tractor with loader makes it easy) or use the pond as a huge battery??? I don't begin to think 200 watts is realistic for this one.

Anything powered by a large suspended or rolling weight. I was thinking pendulum?
I also have large hills that I could use for a rolling weight...using a couple pulleys I could easily get a 1000 foot of travel and drive the car back up the hill to rewind or better yet, use my truck to rewind when I go to my shop to work everyday. No / little excess energy spent!
I also could have a few hundred gallons of water per day(15 ft. head) to add to the equation if it was worthwhile?
I  have plenty of fire wood that I heat with (5 months) and cook with(year around) so any means of heat to electricity would be a good consideration too.

I thank you in advance for any help you can offer and all ideas are appreciated!!


Kelly



Paul-R

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2011, 05:00:22 PM »
Do you have a stream running through anywhere?

Try this:
http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter14.pdf

neptune

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2011, 05:34:18 PM »
Don't dismiss solar because you don't get enough sun .A little power is better than nothing . Why is wind out of the question ? Why do you need all that power for a cabin? If it is to operate machine tools for short to medium periods , use a diesel generator or add a modified extra generator to your truck engine . Small steam engine running on wood , with waste heat to heat cabin . Festoon you
 woodstove and chimney with Peltier cells for lighting/battery charging?
    Start small , with a few second hand solar panels and arrange for them to track the sun , or move them manually 4 times a day . Small wind plant if feasible  . Then the peltier cells . Walk before trying to run .

Lakes

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 06:03:21 PM »
Wood Gasifier running a generator?

Have a look at Tommy Reed`s thread here.

broli

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2011, 07:07:00 PM »

mountainman61

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2011, 07:10:38 PM »
Thanks for the replies!

I don't have a source of running water and nearly no wind because I am surrounded by hills and trees.
I don't want the noise of fueled generators. (should have already said this)
I may have over estimated the power I need though. I need to have refrigeration, small appliances, lighting, PC and TV for entertainment. lighting don't really have to be part of this though. With closer calculations, I could get by with as little as 2000 w/hrs. per day.  I have a generator but hate the noise and the waste. I also have grid power at my shop (1500 ft. away) so I can charge battery's there if I have to, but I want my home to be self-sufficient.

I certainly have considered peltier cells, but I don't understand how to estimate their output, thus I'm unable to get an idea of the cost. Under proper conditions will watt rating of the cell also be their output? I can use gravity feed water to cool them.

As for solar, we average less than 100 sunny days and my location will only get sun for 4-5 hrs per day. I just thought it would not be a good choice, but if I'm wrong, please correct me! I would love to have PV panels if doable.  What percentage of the panels output could I expect factoring in cloudy days too? If I could get 50% then 2 kw panels would be great!

Why is nobody addressing the falling/rolling weight? I can't find much info on this. Is it not worthwhile, too inefficient???


neptune

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2011, 07:23:51 PM »
Having just done a quick search on peltier cells , their efficiency is only about 10% at best .Not cost effective ,although I did read of a muffler/silencer generator based on this idea ,output was 1000watts , but no idea on cost .Probably no one has experience of the falling weight idea . Your chance to bbe first!

Cherryman

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2011, 07:44:11 PM »
65 acres en not enough sunlight?  Are you at the north-side of the hill?

Solar panels do deliver power without direct sun, but way less. So a large array could solve it. Too expensive i guess.

With that much wood, you have also the possibility as mentioned above, a woodgas setup powering a conventional generator.

Even more efficient would be a Stirling generator, but building plans of a good Stirling of a reasonable seize seems not available at the Internet.

A simple steam generator could do the trick, but i do not know the efficiency.

Also energy economic equipment would lower youre power demand.

This fridge/freezer is very low on energy consumption, between 4 to 43 watts to freeze in minutes to -18 celsius.
http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/trucking-product-reviews-truckers-truckers/34264-coleman-stirling-cooler-fridge-299-a.html
http://www.ctlny.com/stirling-cooler/stirlingcooler.html

Although i read a lot of happy consumers, they don't seem available anymore, not even on ebay.  Amazon sold the last ones for 299,-
I Guess the powers that be do not want Stirling equipment in ordinary consumer hands. ( On medical equipment sites they are still sold, as medical coolers, but the price is way over 1000 dollars.... ) 




fritznien

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2011, 07:57:15 PM »
Thanks for the replies!

I don't have a source of running water and nearly no wind because I am surrounded by hills and trees.
I don't want the noise of fueled generators. (should have already said this)
I may have over estimated the power I need though. I need to have refrigeration, small appliances, lighting, PC and TV for entertainment. lighting don't really have to be part of this though. With closer calculations, I could get by with as little as 2000 w/hrs. per day.  I have a generator but hate the noise and the waste. I also have grid power at my shop (1500 ft. away) so I can charge battery's there if I have to, but I want my home to be .

I certainly have considered politer cells, but I don't understand how to estimate their output, thus I'm unable to get an idea of the cost. Under proper conditions will watt rating of the cell also be their output? I can use gravity feed water to cool them.

As for solar, we average less than 100 sunny days and my location will only get sun for 4-5 hrs per day. I just thought it would not be a good choice, but if I'm wrong, please correct me! I would love to have PV panels if doable.  What percentage of the panels output could I expect factoring in cloudy days too? If I could get 50% then 2 kw panels would be great!

Why is nobody addressing the falling/rolling weight? I can't find much info on this. Is it not worthwhile, too inefficient???
falling weights don't hold enough energy. one kg falling one metre gives 9.8 watt seconds be for any lose to friction etc.
a cubic metre of water gives 9800 watts as it drops a metre a second, that's a drop of over two miles per hour!
use a laptop for your computer, get the best fridge lights etc.(most efficient) look into using pink ice to store cold
for your freezer. plumbing antifreeze mix that will freeze just above the temp your freezer runs at to store cold
for when the power is off.
your site looks average for solar, not a lot of gain when the sun is low. google "solar panels by the pallet"
then you can get them for less than 2$ watt.
keep in mind your bottom line is what its going to cost to do what you want.
good luck
fritznien.

brian334

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011, 10:29:27 PM »
Give up, Spend the money to run power the 1500 ft. from your shop to your house and enjoy cheap electricity  24-7-365.

spinn_MP

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2011, 10:45:12 PM »
In the middle of the woods, I'd surely use wood as a main source of energy (already mentioned proposals), or even some more fancy (solar,  etc) energy source.

For your laptop and a few other el. dependable "necessities", you have a 2kWh/day more than enough.
Have some fun!

And don't run that petrol el.generator for more than what you really need...

mountainman61

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 11:49:22 PM »
Give up, Spend the money to run power the 1500 ft. from your shop to your house and enjoy cheap electricity  24-7-365.

Actually, the power company will do it for free. This is just a personal choice. I do have to depend on the grid for my shop (my living), but I want to be off grid for my home.

I guess it looks like solar is, after all, the best option.
It does seem a shame to let all that waste heat go unused!
Can someone tell me a rough cost per watt of peltier? I still would like to try to capture something from the heat!

Again, Thanks to all.....Your a great bunch!
 

DreamThinkBuild

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Re: I need your design help please!
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2011, 05:16:35 PM »
Hi Mountainman61,

Welcome to the forum.

With plenty of wood steam might be viable.

A 2Kw Steam Powered Battery Charger
http://www.otherpower.com/steamengine.shtml

Check otherpower.com site for more off grid power ideas.