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Author Topic: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)  (Read 20133 times)

Offline G_Motion

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2011, 08:17:57 AM »
The reward for the non magnetizable pole piece is increased to $2500. 

It could have been a manufacturing defect, it didn't need to be highly permeable.  I checked cold rolled steel, mu metal and superpermalloy and find it strange that CRS with P around 1K has the strongest attraction and super A with P 200 times greater the least.  This contradicts the formula P = M*C in text books.  If a material with P > 1 could be moved between poles using less energy than could be harvested from the motion of the poles, overunity would have been achieved. 

The question, where would the energy be coming from?   Anyone seriously considering overunity has to answer that question before starting.  It is well established energy can't be created or destroyed only converted.  The problem is those working on overunity don't know science and those who know science know overunity is impossible, so nothing significant is getting done.

Magnetic fields just like gravitational ones have energy.  When a permeable material is moved into a magnetic field, the field shrinks and gives up energy.  Some in the form of M*V^2 (velocity of the material) some in the form of heat.   When atoms in metals are aligned by magnetic fields, electron free space is reduced. The majority of thermal energy in  conductors is in the velocity of electrons, when electron free space is reduced it increases their velocity (temperature) just as happens in a cylinder when the piston moves up.

The only way a magnetic motor can work is by harvesting some other form of energy.

Of the four ways to harvest thermal energy I'm considering, magnetism is the weakest.  I suspect the best a single stage could convert would be less than a micro watt. If I'm right, high vacuum, frictionless bearings, perfectly balanced and the right materials will be necessary.

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Offline G_Motion

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2011, 08:24:59 AM »
The reward for the non magnetizable pole piece is increased to $2500. 
 
 It could have been a manufacturing defect, it didn't need to be highly permeable.  I checked cold rolled steel, mu metal and superpermalloy and find it strange that CRS with P around 1K has the strongest attraction and super A with P 200 times greater the least.  This contradicts the formula P = M*C in text books.  If a material with P > 1 could be moved between poles using less energy than could be harvested from the motion of the poles, overunity would have been achieved. 
 
 The question, where would the energy be coming from?   Anyone seriously considering overunity has to answer that question before starting.  It is well established energy can't be created or destroyed only converted.  The problem is those working on overunity don't know science and those who know science know overunity is impossible, so nothing significant is getting done.
 
 Magnetic fields just like gravitational ones have energy.  When a permeable material is moved into a magnetic field, the field shrinks and gives up energy.  Some in the form of M*V^2 (velocity of the material) some in the form of heat.   When atoms in metals are aligned by magnetic fields, electron free space is reduced. The majority of thermal energy in  conductors is in the velocity of electrons, when electron free space is reduced it increases their velocity (temperature) just as happens in a cylinder when the piston moves up.
 
 The only way a magnetic motor can work is by harvesting some other form of energy.
 
 Of the four ways to harvest thermal energy I'm considering, magnetism is the weakest.  I suspect the best a single stage could convert would be less than a micro watt. If I'm right, high vacuum, frictionless bearings, perfectly balanced and the right materials will be necessary.

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2011, 12:35:48 PM »
It's just aluminum, whats the big deal ?

Aluminum has been used in the flux path of speakers for years,
it is used BECAUSE it will not retain a polarity, and dampens...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2011, 12:35:48 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2011, 07:02:53 PM »
Have you looked at Bismuth?  It's easy to get from melting down shotgun shell pellets (in the ones that have changed from lead to bismuth).  Bismuth is diamagnetic and is actually repelled from a magnet instead of attracted to it.  So that may be part of the formula. 

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2011, 07:13:49 PM »
Hey G

Was working on a 57 vet that had a bad speaker that we replaced with a more modern one. Im not even sure if the old one was the original.

But it had the framework of the speaker magnet that you show in the pdf. The magnet has a pole piece attached to the magnet, right in the gap as you show, but it is thin, 1/6 of an inch, roughly the thickness of the gap plate.

It took me some time to get the U frame and gap plate separated(welded)

The magnet and the pole piece have what seems to be copper plating on them. 

Havnt separated the mag from the plate yet.

Mags

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2011, 07:13:49 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2011, 08:54:53 PM »
In my above post, that speaker is probably 50's - 60's, dunno

A lot of older speakers use coils as the pole magnets.

These ebay items were found with the search " vintage speakers " 2800 items  Good pics. ;] Scroll down on some, or just below the title pic, enlarge to see.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Old-Antique-Vintage-RCA-Philco-Speakers-Parts-/280772379040?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item415f5681a0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/old-58-MAGNAVOX-10-AlNiCo-Instrument-Speaker-PAIR-tube-guitar-amplifier-P10-/170730571032?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c055c518

A very interesting 30's speaker by Jensen  ;]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-1930s-Jensen-PM-1-8-speaker-model-2103-/250930743586?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a6ca34922



Mags

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2011, 12:40:13 PM »
I fell now that I have come back and re-read the whole thread
that I may have seemed a bit trite in my response to you.

I responded because I know that what you assert is true,
but the magic isn't that spectacular in retrospect really.

Before I became a marine electronics technician I had the wonder of
designing upper-frequency electrostatic tweeter assemblies by trade,
and the "other" team had to fill in the lower freq. end of the spectrum.

they did this by response-tailored core materials in the flux path

One of the things they learned early on, and you can easily test this,
is that linear motors basically suck at flat audio reproduction.

You already know this judging your comments.

But the circular flux path that the magnet contributed,
was easily damped via aluminum coated in copper.

Just like dropping a magnet down a copper tube,
the induced emf into the copper tubing during drop,
was reciprocated by a slightly less than 100% BEMF.

you will note upon testing that an aluminum tube will exert
the same effect, albeit a 12.6% difference in overall effect.

So I aside that to tell you of modern stuff that is relevant NOW !

You may very well be onto something lost to time.

Oh, and let me say this right up front,
if I answer your question as asked,
I DON'T want your money at all !

I'm retired and poor,
but that is just wrong...

Put it towards a methodological review of a core,
one that exibites the terms you exert above.

Any master maschinest worth his's/her weight in salt,
can recommend a reputable alloy spet to access this,
and grade into into a catagory and alloy number.

It (I'm near sure) will be less than your "Prize" value anyway to do this ...

But I can assure you that what your dealing with is a specific aluminum alloy,
that will be plated with an external containing barrier of another metal for sure.
(And to be clear, aluminum requires an interstificial metal to be plated with copper)

I hope this helps your awsome quest to difine the unknown.

You've got the right idea.  :)

And MaglLuvin's input is always worth It's salt for the record...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 02:00:45 PM by CompuTutor »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2011, 12:40:13 PM »
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Offline Nali2001

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2011, 09:25:15 PM »

Offline PiQPoT

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Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2015, 05:04:08 AM »
It was piece of plastic. When next to magnet it would not be attracted, but when placed in-between magnet and metal the attraction of metal and magnet stuck the plastic wiring together with and within the joined force. How to get money here?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Lost Magnetic Property (1930-1950 Pole Piece)
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2015, 05:04:08 AM »
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