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Author Topic: Joule Ringer!  (Read 831794 times)

Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #480 on: May 21, 2012, 11:08:54 PM »
Conrad,

Don't restrict yourself with that Torroid.  36:9 (4:1 ratio) turns isn't what LaserSaber suggested.  Before giving up on that Torroid, be bold and try 90:9, or 100:10 turns.  Yes, that will be a lot of wire, but give it a try.  That Torroid you have can handle high frequency.  And if it is a gapped Torroid it will be even better.  The black ones wont work.

You might try the circuit with just the transistor and delete the other components for now.  My guess is with another try you will be pleased.  Don't over think it, it is so easy, just a simple 10:1 ratio on an aircore, ferrite core, torroid and the one transistor.  The heavy insulated wire is important.

With the turns ratio 10:1 you wont light CFL bulbs and especially if they are left unmodified.  The 10:1 ratio works well for LED bulbs.

Try it one more time!

conradelektro

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #481 on: May 21, 2012, 11:30:04 PM »
@Lynxsteam:
 
Thank you for the reply. Trying one more time is no problem.
 
My reasoning:
 
The toroid (Ferrite material 3E27) can handle the high frequency, but some unmodified LED-lamps (which I bought) can not handle high frequency and the unmodified CFLs can not handle it either.
 
The right Ferrite material is 3C90 or 3C85, and its high inductance will cause a low frequency (around 1 KHz, up to 3 KHz).

Bigger laminated iron core transformers will also cause a low frequency (because of their high inductance).
 
But I might be wrong, trial and error is better than "over thinking".
 
Greetings, Conrad
 

Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #482 on: May 22, 2012, 04:39:04 AM »
I wanted to report back on my experiments.

The aircore LJL with heavy insulated secondary made no difference.  It was actually a bit worse because I couldn't get as many turns in the same space.  The bulb is very bright but amp draw is slightly higher. 
The aircore coil with Tesla Parallel windings for the secondary was even worse.  Very high amp draw, very bright.
I rewound my second Super Joule Ringer e-core with the right bell wire and proper turns.  Very bright bulb and 400 ma.  This is slightly higher amp draw than my first SJR2.0 but brightness is superb.
Is this circuit also back charging the source battery between pulses with DC component?  Are we reusing current through the circuit?  Is there a reverberating bounce of magnetic field?  Something isn't right that we are seeing this many watts of work with so little input.

Below is an updated chart showing the 2nd Super Joule Ringer 2.0 with 22:220 turns of telephone wire 24 awg.  The bulb brightness is very good up to three bulbs.  The 4th bulb causes the brightness to drop but so does the amp draw.  I didn't chart the newer LJL aircores, because without lumens/lux it doesn't mean much.  What i find interesting is that with the aircore the amp draw increases with each bulb, whereas with the SJR 2.0 the amp draw rises and plateaus.


JouleSeeker

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #483 on: May 22, 2012, 07:43:15 AM »
I wanted to report back on my experiments.

The aircore LJL with heavy insulated secondary made no difference.  It was actually a bit worse because I couldn't get as many turns in the same space.  The bulb is very bright but amp draw is slightly higher. 
The aircore coil with Tesla Parallel windings for the secondary was even worse.  Very high amp draw, very bright.
I rewound my second Super Joule Ringer e-core with the right bell wire and proper turns.  Very bright bulb and 400 ma.  This is slightly higher amp draw than my first SJR2.0 but brightness is superb.
Is this circuit also back charging the source battery between pulses with DC component?  Are we reusing current through the circuit?  Is there a reverberating bounce of magnetic field?  Something isn't right that we are seeing this many watts of work with so little input.

Below is an updated chart showing the 2nd Super Joule Ringer 2.0 with 22:220 turns of telephone wire 24 awg.  The bulb brightness is very good up to three bulbs.  The 4th bulb causes the brightness to drop but so does the amp draw.  I didn't chart the newer LJL aircores, because without lumens/lux it doesn't mean much.  What i find interesting is that with the aircore the amp draw increases with each bulb, whereas with the SJR 2.0 the amp draw rises and plateaus.

Wanted to express my appreciation for all this work, Lynxsteam.   The graph is particularly instructive.

Well done!!

ADDED:

Now if I may request detail:
Quote
Below is an updated chart showing the 2nd Super Joule Ringer 2.0 with 22:220 turns of telephone wire 24 awg.

Single or double -- "telephone" wire?  solid or stranded?  Would you recommend 24 awg, rather than a thicker wire?  for both secondary and primary?Did you use the cores recommended by Lasersaber, from Nebraska I think, or some other E-core?

Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #484 on: May 22, 2012, 10:42:33 AM »
I am using an EA-77-625 Ferrite E-Core out of a power supply.  I had two of these and they are rated for 200 watts.  The wire I am using for the primary and the secondary is 24 gauge solid copper telephone wire scavenged from some 6 pair telephone cable.  Bell wire is a little too thick and stiff for these smaller E-Cores.

The dimensions on the E-Core are 1-11/16" x .625"  The Bobbin will accept about 259 turns total of insulated 24 awg wire if you are really careful winding.  I used 22 turns on the primary, 220 on the secondary and had a little room to spare.

On this second unit I used the pair of primary wires leaving one of the two disconnected. 

These units will light all 6 LED bulbs nicely with no noise and no heat. 3-4 Bulbs brightly, 6 bulbs at 60%.  One transistor is all you need.  There is no adjustment necessary from 1 bulb to 6.

EA-77-625

lasersaber

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #485 on: May 22, 2012, 01:41:38 PM »
Quote
What i find interesting is that with the aircore the amp draw increases with each bulb, whereas with the SJR 2.0 the amp draw rises and plateaus.

This is right in line with my findings.  The only way I could find to light up ten LED bulbs super bright on low current as I show in my video was to use my largest ferrite E core and bell wire.  I think the phone wire would be better suited to the smaller E core that I give the link to on laserhacker.com.  I would really like to try a super huge ferrite E core with a much larger gauge heavy insulated wire.  I think the results would be amazing!

powercat

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #486 on: May 22, 2012, 04:07:36 PM »

b_rads

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So Simple - A Caveman Can Do It!
« Reply #487 on: May 22, 2012, 05:59:52 PM »
In my feeble attempt to replicate Lasersaber’s SJR, I did everything wrong and it still worked.  While it did not work well, it did light 2 120VAC LED’s.  The E-Core transformer was way too small.  It was one salvaged from some junk electronic (printer I think).  I used stranded CAT-5e wire and was only able to get 6 winds primary and 60 winds secondary and was barely able to close the transformer.  I connected it as per Lasersaber’s diagram posted on his website and it fired right off using a Lights of America 2 watt bulb running very bright.  Added a FEIT 1.2 watt bulb and both bulbs lit, the FEIT was very dim though.  Connected only the FEIT and it was very bright when ran alone.  The source was 12 volts and the current draw was ½ Amp, the 2n3055 ran very warm.  I will not try this one again until I can get a better suited core and the correct wire.
 
For lighting a single LED bulb, it is hard to beat the circuit posted by Xee2.  This circuit uses a RadioShack transformer, 1 transistor, 1 resistor, and 1 cap.  I have this connected to the USB port on my laptop and power it up several times a week for the last 5 months.  At 5 volts it only uses about 150 mA and runs cool.  I have the transistor on a heat sink, but it is not required.  It runs very well on AA battery as well.  This does not handle multiple bulbs very well though.  Here is a video of that build.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyiaYaZqtAs
 
On my AIR CORE – Lynx Joule Lamp, I have not changed anything until I get my light meter in to check bulb brightness.  I very much like the CFL’s for light distribution over the LED’s even though they might not be as environmentally friendly, plus CFL’s are very cheap in comparison to LED’s.  For fun, you might try this, suspend a CFL in a clear plastic jar or glass canning jar and fill with mineral oil.  The effect is really cool.  I would only do this on a modified bulb though.
 
BTW: thanks Lasersaber for the “Low Power Joule Ringer”.  I have replicated this and have a couple running at the moment.  They have been running the light 24/7 for over a month now on an AA battery.  In the picture below, the black project box holds this circuit.
 
Brad S  :)

Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #488 on: May 22, 2012, 06:21:42 PM »
LaserSaber:  How big an E-Core would you like?  What would be your goal for performance? Are you looking to drop power vs light output or just light more bulbs? 

Incidentally, I have a very large Ferrite Torroid that weighs 3-4 Lbs.  Its 4.5" D x 1.5" thick.  I believe its gapped around the circumference with a plastic piece between two Torroids.  I'll see what it can do.

I never knew how much useful junk was in my shop!

Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #489 on: May 23, 2012, 04:35:43 AM »
The best way to describe this Joule Ringer is

Ladies and Gentlemen - KONG


b_rads

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #490 on: May 23, 2012, 03:56:51 PM »
 ;D  OK - got my aircore LJL to light LED's.  Using 30g magnet wire for a length of 8" and 2 conductor 24g solid speaker wire.  On the primary I wrapped 60 turns which covered the entire secondary.  I had to connect the end of the first conductor to the beginning of the second conductor to get my current draw to tolerable limits.  This gives me 120 turns on the primary for a current draw of 250mA and lit up 2 LED's very well. 
 
 ???  Has anyone tried this?  It seems everyone has been testing with matching bulbs.  I connected a 0.4w LED night light to the circuit and the current draw jumps up way over 1 Amp.  With or without other LED's on the load.  Anyone have any idea why this happens and does this happen on the ferrite core builds?
 
Brad S

Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #491 on: May 23, 2012, 05:50:19 PM »
Great that you got it running!  Nice amp draw too!  I'll have to try the increased turns on the primary.  More turns definitely drops the amp draw on the aircore.

No I haven't seen the problem with mixed LED bulbs on an aircore.  Definitely mixing CFL or tubes and LED bulbs doesn't work.  There may be some circuitry in the Nite Lite that is dropping voltage which would probably send amp draw up. 

Easy fix - don't use the Nite Lite. :)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 08:08:03 PM by Lynxsteam »

JouleSeeker

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #492 on: May 23, 2012, 06:11:41 PM »
The best way to describe this Joule Ringer is

Ladies and Gentlemen - KONG

KONG -- lol...  Can you tell us about this sucker, and what kind of power draw you found (compared with your smaller cores)?

I have been thinking along similar (toroidal) lines, I guess -- yesterday I used a high-permeability core, wound in bifilar mode 75 turns for the secondary. (I actually wound this some months ago for another purpose).  I added 8 turns bell wire for the primary to give the approx 10:1 ratio.

I then built the simple Lasersaber 2.0 circuit also used by Lynx, with a 9.5W LED lamp.  Would not light up.  I also built the Lidmotor circuit shown in the photo, with added diagnostic circuitry.  The "white" LED lights up showing current to the base, but the LED would not light up...
Hmmmm.... 

Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #493 on: May 23, 2012, 07:03:39 PM »
If you are using a Torroid, that is a very different animal.

Try a couple of things:
1.  Switch leads on the primary. + and C switch, nothing else
2.  Try cutting a little insulation at every turn on the primary where you can poke into it with a probe.  10:1 doesn't work so well with Torroids.  You may find you hit resonance with fewer turns.  Back off a turn (increase by one turn) and then dial in with your potentiometer for best amp draw.

"Kong" is pretty cool.  It does ring.  Left alone (single component transistor) it puts out 50 watts and plateaus.  I don't think I would ever want to run 20 LED bulbs so I am tinkering to see if I can calm it down with capacitors, and an adjustable base tie.  I got it to dimly light one LED bulb on 40 ma.  I have to go shopping for the right resistors and pot.  I will probably try Slider's 3 color LED indicator.  Torroid Joule Thiefs have been exhaustively looked at, I am just doing this to try the one transistor and to see how a large Torroid behaves.  It is not something to replicate because it is a $377 torroid transformer new.

b_rads

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #494 on: May 24, 2012, 04:33:28 PM »
 :)   My Lux Meter arrived yesterday and I now have three different setups to test.  The LJL with multiple taps for CFL’s, the LJL with speaker wire for LED’s, and a third setup which I will describe.  Have not made the box yet to test the bulbs,  
The third setup can be seen below.  I found a transformer that I had salvaged from a speaker system some time back.  This was a Harman/kardon 10 year old system that went bad.  The transformer is a 120VAC 60Hz input with 18VAC 3A output.  This setup is very sensitive to get started, but when it does, it performs very well.  I placed a string of 50 LED’s rated at 4.8 watts, a LOA rated at 2 watts, and a FEIT Bathroom and Vanity rated at 1.2 watts on the circuit for a total of 8 watts load.  Running off a 12 Volt battery, the current draw was 240mA resulting in 2.88 watts.  Using my new Lux Meter I tested the LOA on AC and the meter showed 660.  Running off the circuit the meter showed 1450.  Those numbers are approximations since the numbers were bouncing around a bit.  With these readings being totally unexpected, I performed the test a second time and the results confirmed the first test.
 
Brad S