Graphite will enable you to determine if you are actually influencing the electrons with the outer magnetic feild of the coil and not the conductor meterial.Besides pencils are cheap.

Doug

I am not sure how graphite can show  if you are influencing the electrons

I also have some questions about the parts you talked about using
The parts you describe are very small and for the most part not low resistance........
One magnet may be enough  to prove something is possible........but the original unit had many magnets....It seems to me that if you use 1 magnet or dozens  you still only want to have enough magnetic flux to slow down the pulse............the big difference is how much time  you have to entrain then capture extra energy
My plan was to have my magnetic tube at least a ft long....


gary

The pitch or angle of the feilds created from the coil around the conductor will have to be worked out experimentally .Tuned for the intended application.Thats why small parts.Working units are very small to begin with only a few centimeters for microwave range. If the parts you already have to play with are large then go for it. There are only two magnets required one for each termination of the outer coil which is fed with a signal as well. I beleive the magnets are to polarize while the signal is for bunching up the wave guide so it can grow in magnetic amplitude at the ends.
  Im still looking over the letter from Otto post.Very interesting stuff regarding materials.Not to much of a shock when you think about it. A vacume tube uses materials that work well in a vac. That doesnt mean there are no materials that will work well in open air just means they chose not to go that route back in the day.

Doug 

Are you sure that there are only 2 magnets?
I have watched the animation in your link several times
The word Magnets is a yellow color ........for a second or 2 what looks to me like a row of ring magnets is highlighted in the same yellow color then the magnets and the word magnets is pulsed a few times.


gary

Your correct Gary
 I found autobiography on one of the inventors. The evntually ended up using farite beads with washers between them to create the effect of multible magnets.They also played with alternating stationary magnets between beads. It's a cool read so passing the link to ya.
http://www.smecc.org/john_r__pierce____electron_tubes.htm
  I finally stumbled on the Daniel Dinggle vid where he clearly states that his gov could not help him or even consider getting involved with the HHO car because they have a signed agreement with world bank that prevents such efforts.Very depressing. I wonder if there is a copy of chaarter for the world bank floating around to confirm this is part of their charter. It would be nice to know with validation who's door step we should be crapping on and making it public.

Doug   

Thanks for the link
It gave me alot to think about.

The 2 frequency thing kept reminding me of the TPU
..... they use 3 frequencys....... what if one frequency was used kind of like an electro magnet   and the other 2 worked like  a Traveling wave tube?

I am wondering  about the helix...... how to  incorporate it into my design.

I have some basic ideas but nothing solid yet


Sense I plan on using pulses .......small disruptive discharges.
The coils will need to be high impedance .....
I was thinking the frequency of the second coil could be a lower harmonic of the original frequency.... in other words the second coil would  be in effect open except for every few cycles its transistor would  conduct and clip the peak off  of a cycle.......letting some power out while still maintaining over all resonance

It is my opinion that in alot of  experiments  with resonance  the experimenter tries to take to much power out effectively dampening the resonance itself.

gary

@lasersaber:

I do not know about the other readers of this thread, but I feel let down and teased again. No circuit diagram, what is the second coil doing, how many turns and which wire on the transformer and the coils? Is that so difficult to tell?

Do you want other people to replicate this circuit or do you want to brag in a rather strange way? Look what I have got, but I like to hold back the only interesting stuff to get some attention! Have fun with that, but it is not my kind of fun.

Well, either we talk about your circuit in a serious way or we play sucker games. I do not like the video, this is not a practical way to talk to technically oriented readers. The intention is not to transmit information, I wounder what intentions are behind it. Must be a Freudian thing beyond me. This Forum is full of such psychological interactions. I suggest a video art forum if the point is a well made video for entertainment purposes and self-portrayal. Take a photo of a simple hand drawing with some notes on it, that is more than enough for electronics buffs.

There are a handful of folks handing out information in this thread, but I do not understand what you want to say? Do you want to tell us how great you are? We should set up a thread with the title "Look what I have got, but I won't tell, because I or the thingy are too good for you low lifers".

Greetings, Conrad

To the best of my understanding, I have used dot notation to illustrate the transformer, please see attached. And here I would briefly explain how I understand the working of the Joule Ringer. Note that I am no expert, so please excuse my rather brute way of expressing my thoughts below.

Static analysis of the Joule Ringer circuit:

1. The points of interest in the circuit: the pins 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 of the transformer; the + and - pin of the electrolytic capacitor; the E, B, C of the transistor.

2. The circuit consists of three loops (loops will be shown by visiting the points of interest as given above). Loop (1): +, 5, 6, C, E, - (this is the Joule Thief type driving loop). Loop (2): +, 4, 2, B, E, - (this is the Joule Thief type trigger loop, which clearly includes the bifiler coil, as does the next loop). Loop (3): +, 4, 3, - (this is the Big Joule Thief type power loop, which also includes the modified CFL).

Once identified these three loops in the circuit, let's call them driving, trigger, and power loops, and each loop contains exactly one part of the coil in the transformer, and let's call those coils the driving, trigger, and power coils.

Dynamic analysis of the Joule Ringer circuit:

The circuit works cyclically. Let's say the cycle starts at the moment when the driving coil 5,6 has no current.

The driving and trigger loops work almost the same way as the Joule Thief circuit, which I will pass for now (however, scope shots suggests that the transistor could switch on twice in one cycle will be explained later, let's ignore such subtlety for the time being, which won't really hurt much of the understanding of the first order effects).
Basically, the current in the driving coil climbs up flowing from pin 5 to 6, then at a certain point, the transistor turns off, and the current drops to zero all in a sudden, causing great spike of voltages in the other coils. As the current in the driving coil drops down to zero, the cycle starts again.

The power loop. When the current in the driving coil is climbing up, some induced induced voltage over the power coil (from pin 4 to 3), but the current should be tiny by reason of the diodes and the induced voltage being relatively small compared to what will happen next. Next, when the current in the driving coil collapses all in a sudden, huge spike of voltage is induced in the power coil (arching could be observed at this moment), the direction is from pin 2 to 4, causing a brief recharging of the electrolytic capacitor through the bifiler and diodes.

At the recharging moment, by reason of the capacitance of bifiler, big voltage is developed across it, and if the voltage is high enough (higher than the induced voltage in the trigger coil at that moment), the transistor could be turned on again briefly. That is why the scope shots suggests that the transistor could switch on twice in one cycle.

Comments on the bifiler and diodes

From the analysis above, the ideal function of the bifiler+diodes in the power loop is to encourage recharging of the electrolytic capacitor in the collapsing stage and discourage the current flow from the electrolytic capacitor in the building stage (when the current of the driving coil climbs up).  Replacing the diodes by a pot may still work because of the induced voltages on the power coil during the two stages are dramatically different in magnitude.

Finally, this analysis is limited in traditional wisdom, I can not exclude the possibility that some abnormal thing happened during the recharging stage, maybe in the bifiler coil or somewhere else.

Hope this somehow helps replicating.

lanenal

@lanenal

That looks great!  I am on the road with work right now but I will give it a try when I get back in town.

@All

I am almost ready to post the DIY videos on how to build a joule ringer including the transformer.

I have also discovered that the Joule Ringer will run a lit CFL for a couple seconds after the power is disconnected, even with no electrolytic capacitor in the circuit. It just runs on the coils alone for a few seconds. I will also show this effect in my next videos.  Here is the circuit that I use when running with no capacitor.

Great news lasersaber !

Maybe your bifilar coil then acts as a cap,
as in your bigger designs it probably has about 100 nF capacitance between
the 2 wires...

Looking forward to see the videos.

Regards, Stefan.

Based on the understanding I have, I would like to propose a modified Joule Ringer circuit as in the attached. A diode is used to encourage recharging and forbid discharging. The value 1N4007 is tentative (ideally, it should have high breaking voltage and fast response). The 4M pot is for standard Joule Thief trigger coil configuration, which will regulate the frequency.

Clearly, the huge spike picked up by the power coil is directly dumped onto the cap. This is something to be careful about.