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Author Topic: Joule Ringer!  (Read 701191 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #585 on: October 04, 2012, 01:52:54 AM »
  Gadget:
   Thanks for the information on the new rod.  There is something wrong with the info on the amount of turns, I believe it to be 60 turns for the primary, and about 600 for the secondary. If you look at his video, you can count the turns of the red primary wire, and is it a lot more than just 20 turns. He mentioned to totally cover the single layer of 28 gauge secondary the full width of the rod. Not just 200 turns, which would only be a couple of inches.
  So, we need more information to replicate this properly.  There is more than one mistery to this circuit, and we need to discover them. Everyone is frying eggs on their transistors... and he doesn't even use a heat sink.
  Try adding a couple of diodes on the base. That is how I got the HV to light the Cfls.  This circuit can shock the living Sh!t out of you, so be careful.
                                                     Nick


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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #585 on: October 04, 2012, 01:52:54 AM »

Offline gadgetmall

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #586 on: October 04, 2012, 03:23:37 AM »
Yea . no diodes don't work . resistors don;t work  caps don't work . It will almost fire an unmodified cfl not quite . It lights any led unmodified bulb . light all filiment lamps but no HV , tomorrow i am going to visit  my mom so i won't have time tomorrow but i am going for the gusto on the other rod . I also have tried winding the outside both ways just in case . there is no difference either way .you just have to go to one end or the other for the bulb connection and the pos . Yea he didn't count them like i said i have his rod and if he used 28 wire then yea its 600 plus turns from ens to end. i tried 24 and no where near the end . then tried heaver 20 . it took 350 turns . that is not enuff either . but it sure will carry the current . see yall later .

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #587 on: October 04, 2012, 04:29:15 AM »
The circuit I posted earlier, with a 2n3055,  will flash a 13 W unmodified CFL about once every two seconds, running on less than 1.2 volts input. Just take out the NE-2 and hook the CFL across the diode. Try both polarities.




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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #587 on: October 04, 2012, 04:29:15 AM »
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Offline gadgetmall

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #588 on: October 05, 2012, 07:28:39 PM »
I am building one like your too Tk . thats surprises me . It is right on the verge of firing that cfl . I bet of you hit the bulb with a blow dryer and get it hot it might fire right off .

I now have finished one rod to my liking . it will also run from a 1.2 volt battery and light led bulbs and make filaments glow .
I just posted a video of it running on just 5 volt caps(ultra of coarse) lighting anything i screw in in . It fires a clf FULL bright and hot just like house current would . http://youtu.be/8_0OsJUNlgw This is a major improvement from LS 14.5 volts . And this is Real world power that can kill you from a few batteries . This One is a keeper . I also have an extra 350 turn secondary on this one .. I wound another one too and put twp layers of secondary one on the other . I taped the first one then continued with the same wire back to the start then tapped it . and then wrapped it with house wire . this is my small one . She blew three darn transistors on anything over 5 volts . I blew an expensive Darlington power tab also . This is why i hate working over 1.2 volts . need more neons for protection . this 6 inch one will be my 1.2 volt power house .
In the picture is a microwave 130 volt oven bulb glowing off 1.2 volts with my 6 inch radio rod.MAx volts is 3 volt dc running TIP3055 with a neon to protect it .

 http://youtu.be/8_0OsJUNlgw
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 01:42:31 AM by gadgetmall »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #589 on: October 06, 2012, 10:59:34 AM »
I got a major improvement in current (way lower) and also general performance by putting in, first, a 220 R in series with the base, and now I'm using 1K and parallel 60 nF in series with the base. Here's the circuit I'm using now, and I just made a video, showing lighting a 110 V incandescent.

I am using more input voltage than you are at this point for the CFL and incandescent, but my neon NE2 will burn using a 1.2 volt AAA battery very nicely.

With 20 VDC from my power supply I can light the 110 V 15 W bulb but very dimly. Using the same 20 V I can get the bulb lit up brilliantly, and in series with the NE-2/diode !!

Also, with no load and 20 V input, I can start an oscillation that is perfectly sinusoidal and apparently over 1000 V p-p, and this lights up the CFL---- but with only one wire connected. I can't get the CFL to light with both wires connected !! What am I doing wrong, or right, or something ? I also haven't managed to blow a single transistor yet.... but I am getting plenty of hot RF burns on my fingers again.....

You all have probably covered this ground before... but it's pretty neat stuff to be able to light a NE-2 on less than 1.2 volts, I think.

The oscillation that lights up the CFL and makes my fingers burn isn't a normal transistor triggered oscillation. It doesn't seem to matter what I do at the base, during this oscillation. The fact that it is perfectly sinusoidal, rather than a pulse like normal, makes me think it is a resonant feedback oscillation rather than a triggered, transistor-switched pulsation.



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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #589 on: October 06, 2012, 10:59:34 AM »
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Offline gadgetmall

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #590 on: October 06, 2012, 04:50:55 PM »
Sweet .. your frequency has to be much higher . I noticed with these heavier  wire primary's (outside) using different power transistors the frequency is radically different . Seems the higher the frequency the less it likes shorts on the out (filament bulbs)put but the higher the voltage is and the less the current is . So lower frequency's make more current .I tried using resistors and it don't work for me . I had to double the secondary because it is what is connects to the base .I might try putting a bulb in series with the base today ..

Tk ? what is the diode doing ? Is it protecting the transistor and how can you get sine from half wave ? where are you measuring it? I need to go look at your video . can you post your link .

One more thing . When you are measuring current with a good meter . in my case i have 300ma setting and 10 amp setting, do we really need a resistor to read across? Will it not show a false reading because the  meter already has them built in . this is something i have never understood . When i check current i put the meter in series and it becomes part of the circuit . Some  say this is incorrect and i do not understand how when i was taught the meters have a shunt already?

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #591 on: October 06, 2012, 06:14:38 PM »
Hmm...
As far as measuring current with a DMM: Yes, you put them in series with your circuit, and yes, they do it by measuring voltage drop across a calibrated shunt. This means that the meter will have a series resistance when used as an ammeter: mine has 1.8 ohms series resistance. This can be significant for some circuits, and that's why sometimes you don't want to use them this way. For low power circuits, 1.8 ohms can be a lot of resistance!
Current is measured by digital meters in two ways normally: by looking at the voltage drop across a known low resistance (shunt) or by looking at the magnetic field the current produces (current transformers, Hall effect probes). For DC especially it is almost always done by voltage drop across a shunt but we've all seen and used clamp-on current meters for AC: cheap ones are current transformers and more expensive ones can use Hall sensors.
So inside the DMM meter there is a small resistance, very accurately known, and the meter is actually reading the voltage drop across this resistance and computing I=V/R to give you the current through this internal shunt.
You can obviously do this externally too, by using the meter's voltage function and your own, accurately known, external shunt. Or use the oscilloscope to look at the waveform across your external shunt and compute the current at each instant of a complex waveform.

As to my circuit variant of Lasersaber's one:....  The diode. Yes. Hmm. I could not get the neon to light at low input voltages without the diode. I tried many different diodes and resistors and capacitors.... the circuit is very sensitive here and I even went through a pile of 4002s to find the one that worked the best (lowest turn-on voltage for the NE-2). But to get the sine wave oscillation that makes the highest voltage, this is with the NE-2 and diode out of the circuit. With the diode I only measure half-wave at the load, as you'd expect. The incandescent lights up with or without the diode and NE-2.... weird.

I can't remember the frequencies this morning, just got up, but it can be all over the place. It varies greatly with applied voltage, and it also flips into several different stable modes, like 2x and even 1.5 x some base frequency at times.  I suppose I should measure it, rather than just looking at the pretty spikes on the screen.  :P

Putting in some resistance in the base leg cut my current by a factor of 5 in some cases...... from 250 mA down to 50 mA for example.... did make the turn-on voltage a bit higher but even the added 220R 3W made a big difference in input current, but the 1K+60 nF is working the best now. A .01 uF between C and E doesn't seem to do much for me, but between C and B, or B and E, it can have big effect or little effect, depending on input voltage.

There are subtleties to this little circuit that are fascinating, and it's not as simple as it looks.

My whole setup with this particular experiment was basically to see how necessary the magic rod ferrites really are..... I'm actually kind of surprised that the bead works so well, it's very cheap and low-quality material I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11cBBjjd2qA




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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #591 on: October 06, 2012, 06:14:38 PM »
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Offline xee2

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #592 on: October 06, 2012, 11:01:14 PM »
@ TinselKoala

If you remove the diode and the ne-2, you will see that your circuit is a slayer exciter. This is a resonant oscillator that automatically adjusts to the resonant frequency of the output coil. This is why you are getting sine waves. You should be able to light a fluorescent tube wirelessly when the circuit is oscillating. Thanks for sharing your results.

see  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vdg4DzMfM&feature=plcp



Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #593 on: October 07, 2012, 12:11:16 AM »
Thanks, unfortunately not wirelessly. I need to have just one wire hooked to the coil side of the "gap" where the NE2 and diode goes, with the collector side open. I guess it needs an antenna or something. It certainly makes the 1000 v p-p sine oscillation very nicely, and lights a straight tube or a CFL with a touch of a single wire... but not a glimmer wirelessly.

The sine oscillation is at about 245 kHz.

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #593 on: October 07, 2012, 12:11:16 AM »
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Offline xee2

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #594 on: October 07, 2012, 12:18:57 AM »
Thanks, unfortunately not wirelessly. I need to have just one wire hooked to the coil side of the "gap" where the NE2 and diode goes, with the collector side open. I guess it needs an antenna or something. It certainly makes the 1000 v p-p sine oscillation very nicely, and lights a straight tube or a CFL with a touch of a single wire... but not a glimmer wirelessly.

The sine oscillation is at about 245 kHz.


Have you tried just a tube? It is hard to get the CFL to light wirelessly with the circuit attached.
EDIT:  Opps, sorry I see you tried a straight tube. You probably need a higher output voltage (more turns).

Offline xee2

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #595 on: October 07, 2012, 03:53:13 AM »
@ TinselKoala


After studying your circuit some more, I do not think it is a variation of the slayer exciter. Your base resistor is not connected to the battery plus terminal directly and your added components significantly modify the circuit. So I think it should be considered as something new.


When you are lighting the filament bulb brightly in the video I think the meters are reading 10.3 volts and 1.8 amps. Is that about the correct values (about 18 watts in)?

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #595 on: October 07, 2012, 03:53:13 AM »
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Offline Billxx

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #596 on: October 07, 2012, 05:45:11 PM »
The oscillation that lights up the CFL and makes my fingers burn isn't a normal transistor triggered oscillation. It doesn't seem to matter what I do at the base, during this oscillation. The fact that it is perfectly sinusoidal, rather than a pulse like normal, makes me think it is a resonant feedback oscillation rather than a triggered, transistor-switched pulsation.

@TinselKoala

Excellent observation, seems the entire circuit is oscillating and tuned to a certain frequency based on a certain voltage?

Just inquiring, thanks.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #597 on: October 07, 2012, 07:23:12 PM »
  It appears that your rattler is what is making a difference, similar to Johhy Davro's piezo buzzer idea.
Your Cfl is still not being lit 100% though, even at 20 volts and almost 2 amps. It may be the neon that is helping to keep the transistor from frying at those high voltage/current levels.
  I'm going to try something similar using a 2.5 inch crt monitor ferrite yoke, as I can't get the big rods, nor want to spend that much on them if it can be done much cheaper, or for free.  The E-cores will work fine in any case, but it's ferrite that's the key to being able to use much smaller coils to get the same effect generation.
  I really see no point to being able to have a wireless circuit, as it can only be use within a couple of feet from the source. On the other hand a one wire connection can be taken to light bulbs throughout the whole house, if needed.
  Thanks for sharing.

   NickZ


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #598 on: October 07, 2012, 07:26:34 PM »
I've put a switch and a 3.3 nF cap in series with the neon/diode now. The additional cap seems to make a big difference at higher voltages, but maybe it's just fooling my regulated power supply into going out of regulation.

The circuit has at least three modes of operation. I'll show a video a bit later on today. But when it's making the nice sinusoidal oscillation, the frequency doesn't seem to depend on the input voltage. The frequency is constant at around 220 kHz and only varies slightly with input voltage, but the p-p output voltage is dependent on the input. But in the low-current mode with the NE-2, making the usual transistor spike pulsations, this frequency is very dependent on voltage, and varies from 40 kHz to 60 kHz or so, and the output voltage is less dependent on input.

Then there is the "supernova" mode, where something about the circuit messes with the regulation of my power supply and strange things happen, the neon glows extremely bright and hot and gets kind of purplish or pinkish rather than orange..... this happens during the high-voltage oscillations.

This is the schematic I'm looking at now, and what I'll show in the next video. Thanks for comments, I would really like to understand this circuit.


Offline NickZ

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Re: Joule Ringer!
« Reply #599 on: October 07, 2012, 07:38:30 PM »
  I also get the very high pulses at times, which changes the color of the neon to purpleish-white, and burns the transistors which can't handle the much higher current, that will burn ones fingers, with hot current, not just RF.  It may be some type of resonance kicking in at times. I get this when I hold a diode and touch it to parts of the circuit. This happens when I use a wall adapter at about 14v, so I suggest to try a 12v battery instead, so that your power supply output  is not being influenced by the circuit.
 
   Here is Jonny's video on the buzzer idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PNgpWUJGB4&feature=channel&list=UL

 

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