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Author Topic: The paradox of overunity  (Read 72796 times)

Offline Ar-el-es

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2010, 04:45:54 AM »
Such a device is trivial but will have practical application. Any device that taps into a known or unknown (to be discovered or unused so far) energy source is not an OU device.

Okay, so finally having enough power to levitate off the ground and into space is still going to be trivial? Besides ending the use of fossil fuels and bringing power to areas of the planet that has none this is one of the logical uses of these untapped sources of energy. We would finally be able to afford to lift tons of equipment into space and colonize the entire solar system. If that's your idea of trivial then what in the hell do you want?

Let me make clear that I don't think there could be such a thing as an OU device within the true definition of the term. I believe that low cost or almost "free energy" devices will become more common in the future. The science behind most of these devices will still be of interest to science even if the methods used to create this energy becomes well known. We're always going to be trying to improve on designs like we have been doing with internal combustion engines. These devices may not be comparable to cold fusion but then again cold fusion may not be needed anymore if the proper device such as a gravity wheel is created.


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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2010, 04:45:54 AM »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2010, 04:51:00 AM »
I've explained it more than once -- OU in its true sense (producing energy without it coming from a pre-existing energy reservoir) is possible and is proven definitively. As to the technical developments you're mentioning, they are non-trivial in engineering sense but they are foreseeable. Anything foreseeable is trivial and doesn't constitute a step ahead in our understanding of nature which is the subject of the scientific exploration.

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2010, 04:52:20 AM »
There is no such thing as zero point energy. This is a deficiency in quantum mechanics which should be fixed as well as a number of other deficiencies in that otherwise beautifully crafted mathematical system.
then your comments are irrelevant as that is the device under discussion as per gwandau in reply 17 and ar-el-es in reply 24... ::)

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2010, 04:52:20 AM »
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Offline Ar-el-es

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2010, 05:31:19 AM »
I've explained it more than once -- OU in its true sense (producing energy without it coming from a pre-existing energy reservoir) is possible and is proven definitively. As to the technical developments you're mentioning, they are non-trivial in engineering sense but they are foreseeable. Anything foreseeable is trivial and doesn't constitute a step ahead in our understanding of nature which is the subject of the scientific exploration.
Please explain or post a link to where the evidence for OU is and I'll change my mind.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2010, 05:33:17 AM »
Please explain or post a link to where the evidence for OU is and I'll change my mind.

This I can only do at an official presentation, not here.

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2010, 05:33:17 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2010, 05:34:41 AM »
then your comments are irrelevant as that is the device under discussion as per gwandau in reply 17 and ar-el-es in reply 24... ::)

That discussion is nothing else but a speculation. There isn't and there cannot exist a device utilizing zero point energy.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2010, 03:10:37 PM »
There is no such thing as zero point energy. This is a deficiency in quantum mechanics which should be fixed as well as a number of other deficiencies in that otherwise beautifully crafted mathematical system.
If I remember correct, zero point energy are understood as the lowest possible energy state - where there are absolutely no action in any atoms, no spinning electrons etc. Also absolute vacuum are described as a form of zero point energy. The "beauty" of zero point energy is the potential enormous energy difference up to non-zero point energy sources such as any matter in any temperature above the absolute zero K.

This is an example taken from Wikipedia (Which have some flaws sometimes):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2010, 03:10:37 PM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2010, 03:30:11 PM »
This I can only do at an official presentation, not here.
translation: you have called out omnibus so he must refuse since he cannot provide what is asked.

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2010, 03:35:01 PM »
That discussion is nothing else but a speculation. There isn't and there cannot exist a device utilizing zero point energy.
more delusions of grandeur from omni... look omni, we all (well, most of us) know that there is no way you could have such knowledge, and for you to tell us what cannot exist is simply evidence of your megalomania. the name omnibus doesn't make you omniscient no matter how many times you click your heels and say 'there's no place like home'... ::)

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2010, 03:35:01 PM »
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Offline skidmark

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2010, 03:35:41 PM »
Just a dumb question. Within overunity devices there must be maintenance or otherwise they will wear out or lose their value. Every part or piece will return to nature one day. Is this maintenance counted as input energy?

Offline Low-Q

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2010, 04:01:12 PM »
I've explained it more than once -- OU in its true sense (producing energy without it coming from a pre-existing energy reservoir) is possible and is proven definitively. As to the technical developments you're mentioning, they are non-trivial in engineering sense but they are foreseeable. Anything foreseeable is trivial and doesn't constitute a step ahead in our understanding of nature which is the subject of the scientific exploration.
This is true, but are you really sure there hasn't been a miscalculation somwhere, some missing elements in the "equation" which will eventually prove that OU isn't possible after all?

I also did read the HHO thread, where you offered a member a link via PM to some text you have written about OU (If I remember correctly). Could you please provide those links, either here or via PM to me? I promise not to discuss the content. I'm just curious - as always.

Vidar

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2010, 04:01:12 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2010, 07:54:19 PM »
more delusions of grandeur from omni... look omni, we all (well, most of us) know that there is no way you could have such knowledge, and for you to tell us what cannot exist is simply evidence of your megalomania. the name omnibus doesn't make you omniscient no matter how many times you click your heels and say 'there's no place like home'... ::)

No, you don't know. You don't know the essence of what's being discussed let alone what my qualifications and knowledge are. You can't judge such things because you don't have the competence to do so. Yours is just blabber to pass the time.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2010, 07:55:54 PM »
translation: you have called out omnibus so he must refuse since he cannot provide what is asked.

Mind your own business and don't utter opinions about things you don't have a clue.

Offline Gwandau

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2010, 11:15:51 PM »
Hey you guys, this is becoming a really agitated discussion. :D

The smell of hurt egos are bouncing all around the walls in this topic. ;)

As far as I am concerned, scientific discussions are far better off if one stays aloft of personal attachement.

There is no such thing as zero point energy. This is a deficiency in quantum mechanics which should be fixed as well as a number of other deficiencies in that otherwise beautifully crafted mathematical system.

Quantum mechanics is a somewhat misleading word, since this is still only a theory,
and although it is an appealing theory, it still struggles with a lot of contradictions
and paradoxes.

Repeatable empirical experiments on the other hand are undeniable proof.

The indisputable fact that Helium does not become solid at zero degrees Kelvin
does indeed prove the existence of Zero Point energy.

Additionally, physicists at Yale University have made the first definitive
measurements of "persistent current," a small but perpetual electric current that
flows naturally through tiny rings of metal wire even without an external power
source, adding to the proof of a universal underlying energy field.

Then we have the so called Casimir Effect, also empirically verified.

These examples are all known and accepted by contemporaray science,
and the theoretical physicists backing up the Quantum theory are having
severe problems incorporating these proven findings into their theory.

Remember: Zero Point energy is empirically proven, Quantum mechanics is but a theory.

Gwandau

Offline Omnibus

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Re: The paradox of overunity
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2010, 12:00:07 AM »
Casimir effect is the straw they've been hanging onto ever since quantum mechanics came into being. Those trying to justify funding related to quantum mechanics are desperately seeking experimental confirmations and that's one of the few possible experiments to offer. Unfortunately, it is as problematic nowadays as it was at the beginning. We see here what problems even simple and ostensibly straightforward experiments are posing let alone such at the limits of our experimentation capabilities. Like I said, zero point energy is non-existent as a real phenomenon, no matter how certain groups are trying to puch it.

 

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