Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83643
  • *Latest: pubbys

  • *Total Posts: 514922
  • *Total Topics: 15358
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 8
  • *Total: 9

Author Topic: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output  (Read 291539 times)

Offline Les Banki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #465 on: June 20, 2014, 05:34:07 AM »
ALL,

About DOWNLOADS (of my files).

Yes, I DO monitor downloads from this thread AND from my Dropbox Folders regularly and I have made the following observations:

From THIS thread, the number of DOWNLOADS of 'autorpm1' and 'autorpm2' are NOT EQUAL!

This means that some of you only have about HALF the circuit diagram!

The simple reason for the TWO diagrams is that this is a LARGE circuit which does not fit on single sheet!

If you intend you use this design in any way, you need the complete diagram.

If not, just ignore this post!


As for the downloads from Dropbox, I note that the number of DOWNLOADS of the 'WFGPsch.zip' is about HALF of the 'LB_WFGP-Feb 2014.zip'.

This means that HALF of you DON'T HAVE any of the 14 circuit diagrams at all!


Cheers,

Les Banki


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Mark69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #466 on: June 20, 2014, 05:07:38 PM »
Les, do you have a video of your system running?  I am unable to build your system at this time, do to being in an apt., but eventually would like to try (plus, I am a novice at electronics).

Offline Les Banki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #467 on: June 21, 2014, 05:48:47 AM »
Les, do you have a video of your system running?  I am unable to build your system at this time, do to being in an apt., but eventually would like to try (plus, I am a novice at electronics).

Mark69,

I have NO INTENTION to make videos.

For what possible purpose?

If you find the above statement strange, just go back to the first page and number 1 post of this thread!

What do you see?

Let me "break it down" for all readers here!

Stefan Hartman, (the owner of this Forum) started this thread.

He presented (posted) the link to the video by Oliver & Valentin.

Read his comments!

Now go ahead and read all the "skeptical", ridiculing, discrediting , STUPID posts, trying to deny the OBVIOUS by screaming for

University review, "exhaust analysis" and so on!

I admire Stefan for his patience and for tolerating all those MORONIC posters!

Further, I was savagely attacked also.

My "gloves are OFF" now so don't expect me to be a Mr "nice guy" any more.


However, during several live demonstrations (of several units) the attendants will be making their own videos.

What they will do with them is their business.

Cheers,

Les Banki


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #467 on: June 21, 2014, 05:48:47 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Paul-R

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #468 on: June 21, 2014, 03:28:30 PM »

Stefan Hartman, (the owner of this Forum) started this thread.

He presented (posted) the link to the video by Oliver & Valentin.


***********************************
***********************************
***********************************

Yes, he did. - It is about the Anton cell.

Why have you hi-jacked it?

Start your own thread. Leave this to Anton researchers.

***********************************
***********************************
***********************************
.

Offline Les Banki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #469 on: June 22, 2014, 03:38:23 AM »
Just WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, Paul-R??

I have made it VERY CLEAR in my introductory post WHY I choose to post in this thread which has been DEAD for 2 1/2 years!

But it seems you have some problems READING and UNDERSTANDING....

You only want to ARGUE.

The Anton cell has been MENTIONED a couple of times but NOBODY has claimed that THIS thread is about the Anton cell!

In case you haven't discovered, there is a thread SPECIFICALLY for the Anton cell.

In any case, this is the LAST time I respond to your USELESS ravings!

Cheers,

Les Banki

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #469 on: June 22, 2014, 03:38:23 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Paul-R

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #470 on: June 22, 2014, 02:49:21 PM »

 NOBODY has claimed that THIS thread is about the Anton cell!


There is a clue in the title.
.

Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #471 on: June 22, 2014, 05:41:17 PM »
Hey Les,

I've actually learned something! I think.

First, your designs are not just Analog they are Pulse Width Proportional hybrid
Analog/Digital. If one can translate a control system to an entirely linear system
then one can model it entirely as control sequences and pulse-proportional
modules. (PID proportional control is actually pulse-proportional where the circuit
attempts to learn one important proportionary hidden variable of the system by
operational trial and error. Not required here.)

If one can translate control entirely to linear systems then one can ignore the
non-linear control laws which most often result in the more complex differential
equations intermediates.  Efficiency calculations can then be looked at as linear
equations.

---

Somewhat along the same lines with the system in question.  What I hear you saying is;
"Get the subsystem function from whatever the source you can, overunity comes with it.
Then carefully construct a demand control structure so that as the next subsystem raises
vs lowers it's energy demand, the current subsytem raises or lower it's demand in response."
Which make the chain efficiency more or less constant by PWP means. Try to get the
HydrOdxy to stay at a constant pressure so the proportioning injector can accurately
control how much hydrogen is injected into the engine manifold based in energy demand.

Avoid those subsystems that attempt to run at constant fixed power level then behave
very inefficiently at demand limits.

---

Ok..Thanks. You've made something very valuable available to us here.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #471 on: June 22, 2014, 05:41:17 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Les Banki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #472 on: June 23, 2014, 05:24:28 AM »
Hey Les,

I've actually learned something! I think.

First, your designs are not just Analog they are Pulse Width Proportional hybrid
Analog/Digital. If one can translate a control system to an entirely linear system
then one can model it entirely as control sequences and pulse-proportional
modules. (PID proportional control is actually pulse-proportional where the circuit
attempts to learn one important proportionary hidden variable of the system by
operational trial and error. Not required here.)

If one can translate control entirely to linear systems then one can ignore the
non-linear control laws which most often result in the more complex differential
equations intermediates.  Efficiency calculations can then be looked at as linear
equations.

---

Somewhat along the same lines with the system in question.  What I hear you saying is;
"Get the subsystem function from whatever the source you can, overunity comes with it.
Then carefully construct a demand control structure so that as the next subsystem raises
vs lowers it's energy demand, the current subsytem raises or lower it's demand in response."
Which make the chain efficiency more or less constant by PWP means. Try to get the
HydrOdxy to stay at a constant pressure so the proportioning injector can accurately
control how much hydrogen is injected into the engine manifold based in energy demand.

Avoid those subsystems that attempt to run at constant fixed power level then behave
very inefficiently at demand limits.

---

Ok..Thanks. You've made something very valuable available to us here.



Mark,

Thank you very much for your kind words and even more thanks for your SUPERB analysis!

While highly "technical", I sincerely hope that your analysis does not fly above too many heads here!

As for me, I simply ACCEPT and thank SOURCE for the ideas and then try my best to implement them into usable form.

I also want you to know that ever since I started researching and experimenting with "water fuel" 20 years ago,

I have "copped" nothing but abuse!

So your posts are certainly "a breath of fresh air" and are much appreciated!

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Les Banki






Offline weirdal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #473 on: September 06, 2014, 03:54:50 AM »
I'm hoping someone can help me size an appropriate transformer for Les' super simple 2kw electrolyzer power supply circuit (SS2KWEPS), I have a 21 plate dry cell electrolyzer (19*19*11 cm) that can 'reportedly' handle up to 35v/70amp (2.45KW). If I wanted to get as close to 2kw as possible what transformer should I use?

I already have a couple AC Motor Run 100uF Capacitors, I haven't calculated or measured how much current these will limit yet so I will likely need a few more. I'm in north america so mains here is 120v, the bridge rectifier I'm using is KBPC5010W, any suggestions would be helpful.

Capacitors:
http://www.amazon.com/Conditioner-CBB65A-1-50uF-Motor-Capacitor/dp/B008DEZIM0

-Al

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #473 on: September 06, 2014, 03:54:50 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #474 on: September 07, 2014, 03:55:56 AM »
I'm hoping someone can help me size an appropriate transformer for Les' super simple 2kw electrolyzer power supply circuit (SS2KWEPS), I have a 21 plate dry cell electrolyzer (19*19*11 cm) that can 'reportedly' handle up to 35v/70amp (2.45KW). If I wanted to get as close to 2kw as possible what transformer should I use?

I already have a couple AC Motor Run 100uF Capacitors, I haven't calculated or measured how much current these will limit yet so I will likely need a few more. I'm in north america so mains here is 120v, the bridge rectifier I'm using is KBPC5010W, any suggestions would be helpful.

Capacitors:
http://www.amazon.com/Conditioner-CBB65A-1-50uF-Motor-Capacitor/dp/B008DEZIM0

-Al
2.5V * (N-1) is enough voltage to eletrolyze with reasonable electrolyte.  So you want at least 50V @ 40A.  35Vrms will peak at 50V, and your capacitors will droop after that. All is not lost, but you are running kind of ragged.  The simplest solution is to reduce the number of plates from 21 down to 14 or 15.    Your capacitors aren't really what you want.  At line frequency, your rail will droop about 1V for every ampere at 8,333 uF.    It would be a good idea to limit the droop to no more than 30% peak or 40% of the rms value.  So:

C = 8,333uF / A / V * 40A / ( 35V * 40% ) ~ 24,000uF.  You will need a ton of 100uF motor start capacitors to get there.  The caps should be rated at least 80V.

Another option is to remain light with the capacitors.  In that case, the electorlysis will start and stop 120 times per second as the voltage rises above 1.23V + margin per plate pair.  If you frop to 14 or 15 plates then you will get electrolysis about 50% of the time at a current that rises and falls 120 times per second.  So, you will maybe get about 25% the output as you will if you use 24,000uF of caps.  You will be more limited by the ripple current.  If you put ten of these in parallel, your ripple will be under control for a 14-15 plate design:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SLPX682M080E9P3/338-1653-ND/1882130

Offline weirdal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #475 on: September 08, 2014, 02:28:45 AM »
2.5V * (N-1) is enough voltage to eletrolyze with reasonable electrolyte.  So you want at least 50V @ 40A.  35Vrms will peak at 50V, and your capacitors will droop after that. All is not lost, but you are running kind of ragged.  The simplest solution is to reduce the number of plates from 21 down to 14 or 15.    Your capacitors aren't really what you want.  At line frequency, your rail will droop about 1V for every ampere at 8,333 uF.    It would be a good idea to limit the droop to no more than 30% peak or 40% of the rms value.  So:

C = 8,333uF / A / V * 40A / ( 35V * 40% ) ~ 24,000uF.  You will need a ton of 100uF motor start capacitors to get there.  The caps should be rated at least 80V.

Another option is to remain light with the capacitors.  In that case, the electorlysis will start and stop 120 times per second as the voltage rises above 1.23V + margin per plate pair.  If you frop to 14 or 15 plates then you will get electrolysis about 50% of the time at a current that rises and falls 120 times per second.  So, you will maybe get about 25% the output as you will if you use 24,000uF of caps.  You will be more limited by the ripple current.  If you put ten of these in parallel, your ripple will be under control for a 14-15 plate design:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SLPX682M080E9P3/338-1653-ND/1882130

Thank you, this was very helpful. For the cost of capacitors I wonder if just using a stick welder for a power supply and plugging into a bigger bridge rectifier (KPBC8010 - 80A) will do the trick as output voltage is 50V and amperage is adjustable. I need to get about 7 LPM to run my genset so I don't know if a 14-15 plate design will produce enough, unless I run two of them separately.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #475 on: September 08, 2014, 02:28:45 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #476 on: September 08, 2014, 02:32:27 AM »
The problem is that you need the capacitors of some size in order to maintain the DC voltage.  Output is a function of the number of plates, the plate area, and the current.  The number of plates sets the floor on the voltage needed to produce gas.

Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #477 on: September 08, 2014, 03:25:23 AM »
weirdal,

How about letting us knows how it goes, Len Banki seems to indicate that one cause of troubles in this field is having insufficient HHO
to meet the motors energy demands with the subsequent problems that can cause. For example his estimate is that one needs
2400Watts for a gen loaded 11HP engine.  George Wiseman's capacitive impedance driven 240VAC at 10amp = 2400W HHO generator
produces 1600 LPH 1atmos. HHO. You say you need only 420LPH, something is not quite adding up with 2400Watts in but I wondered
what HP rating your engine is? Don't give up too quickly on looping as there may be some alternatives to try.

The other thing is he says precise control of the amounts of HHO put into the engine are required which would seem somewhat
more difficult for the average experimenter to achieve.


:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline weirdal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #478 on: September 08, 2014, 04:48:01 AM »
Ok, I'll see how much I can get out of my cell and plan on re-sizing it as suggested and add the necessary capacitors. FYI - The generator I'm using is a Champion 41552:

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generators/41552/
http://www.championpowerequipment.com/pdf/manuals/41552/41552_manual-english.pdf

I'll be using a gaseous fuel injector for improved efficiency.

-Al

Offline Les Banki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #479 on: September 08, 2014, 10:17:41 AM »
Ok, I'll see how much I can get out of my cell and plan on re-sizing it as suggested and add the necessary capacitors. FYI - The generator I'm using is a Champion 41552:

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generators/41552/
http://www.championpowerequipment.com/pdf/manuals/41552/41552_manual-english.pdf

I'll be using a gaseous fuel injector for improved efficiency.

-Al


 Al,

 
I see you are new here and have already fallen 'prey' to the resident FULL TIME SABOTEUR of this Forum!!

 
His “advise” is the most technically ABSURD post I ever had the misfortune to read since I started reading/posting on several forums more than 10 years ago!

 
It is downright CRAP!
ALL OF IT!
It is VERY clear that he has NO knowledge whatsoever about electrolysis and has NEVER made an electrolyser of any description in his miserable life!

 
The “game” he is PAID to play was already last several DECADES ago!
His performance is PATHETIC to the point of being embarrassing.

 
Now to the technical part.

 
The generator you have has the same rating as mine and a couple of friends' who are duplicating my WFGP.
The cell you have described is NOT big enough to run a generator of this size.

 
Basically, you have two options:
You could get two more cells like the one you already have and connect them in SERIES.
You then have 63 cells but may still need some current limiting, yes, capacitors but NOT 24.000µF!!
(24.000µF, my ASS!  What an idiot!)

 
or,

 
Make an electrolyser like mine but with 68 cells, which will become SELF-REGULATING.

 
If you wish to see HOW it is done, you should visit these links:

 
http://www.energy-shiftingparadigms.com/index.php/board,9.0.html

 
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2578.msg41402;topicseen#msg41402

 
where you don't have to worry about saboteurs, they are on READ ONLY!

 
Cheers,
Les Banki
 

 

OneLink