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Author Topic: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output  (Read 320994 times)

Offline mdlarouche

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #195 on: December 29, 2010, 05:37:02 AM »
For every action there is a an equal and opposite reaction!

My personal thought is that for every action there could be any number of reactions and those combined reactions are the net energy that comprises the universe. That energy does two things.

1. If uncontrolled... radiates out from its center point in all directions, or in some cases in a linear manner

2. if properly confined and directed to channel as much of the energy in a manner that allows work to be done.

We burn gasoline in an engine where it is confined and released in a manner that allows us to do work. The heat on the other hand... much of it is lost parasitically, as is vibration and sound.

The heat, the expansion of burned gasses, the vibrations, the sound are the reactions that are derived from burning a fuel and each in their own is not an equal reaction to the total energy released but when comprised as a whole they are the sum of the total energy potential from the initial action.

The key to energy sustainability lies in harnessing all the reactions in a more complete system or by lessening the energies in some reactions so that other reactions may be augmented.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #196 on: December 29, 2010, 01:16:56 PM »
You need power to start the process and a cell which can handle at least 1kw. This rules out 95% of the shabby DIY builds made from SS scraps.

1Kw at 13.2 volts = 75 amps! Throwing caution to the wind the cell has got to manage at least 50 amps to get enough power into the engine to run it. So if you got 4 plates hanging off a coat hanger inside a cookie jar,  using Bi Carb as electrolite and pushing 3-5 amps from a flat car battery then no you havent got a chance in hell.

 AND the timing changes,  4 stroke skip spark is VITAL. Inlet valve already open 2 degrees when crank TDC if you just advance ignition = BAANGGGGGGGGG! You just found out your bubbler doesnt work too  good:)

Oh and timing does matter ..a lot. Why do you think they went to all that trouble modifying it and using plastic cogs?
sorry but at the point of ignition no valve should be open and they always fire just after tdc if not then they is a chance the engine could be kicked into reverse

Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #197 on: December 29, 2010, 01:18:44 PM »
Timing shouldn't matter... at least when you are talking about advanced timing and that sort of thing. Advanced timing as it pertains to gasoline engines is because of it's octane rating. I don't recall the rating of gasoline in particular but hydrogen has an octane rating of 130 which is the highest of all fuels. It will not cause the common "knocking" that is associated with other fuels if they aren't manged with their timing to prevent this condition. The mechanical timing on the other hand should be set to bottom top dead center. If the engine is new and assembled that is the way it would be set... If you're assembling an engine that has been disassembled it simply means to have the piston at the top of the cylinder during the compression cycle when the valves are closed and with the rotations of the crankshaft so that the piston has just begun to move in the downward direction. This is the point where the spark plug fires... pushing the piston down and finishing off with the next... exhaust stroke

As for the issue of two stroke vs. four stroke... a two stoke needs to be lubricated by oil carried in the fuel mixture or it will seize up and except for maybe a little experimentation... it shouldn't be used long term because it will ultimately fail. You might be able to go to the extra length of using a two stroke with an oil injection system like they use in some motocross motorcycles but it would be to the detriment of still polluting the air.

As for something else I read in another thread... to clear things up a little, hydrogen does not produce any hyrocarbons but does in some circumstances produce nitrides.

i feel the main problem is with a 2 stroke is yes the oil system but also the fact the half of the fule air pixture goes out the exuast befor compresion has ethern started

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #197 on: December 29, 2010, 01:18:44 PM »
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Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #198 on: December 29, 2010, 01:23:58 PM »
my unit was a stainless steel reacing tank
the outside of the tank was the anode
the inside had 40 plates in total the cathode
i thoght this would work best as i wonted more hydrogen than oxygen
i feel my main problem was the wrong engine

Offline mdlarouche

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #199 on: December 29, 2010, 02:21:24 PM »

i feel the main problem is with a 2 stroke is yes the oil system but also the fact the half of the fule air pixture goes out the exuast befor compresion has ethern started

You are correct! In the case of a two stroke engine the cylinder has ports cut out of it. I haven't worked on a two stroke in more than thirty years but if I remember correctly both ports at some point in time are open so yes you kind of get a fuel mixture that wants to go right out the exhaust.. the path of least resistance. I suppose that the weight and density of the gas mixture as compared to the HHO is why there isn't a real problem with gasoline... other than the pure inefficiency of the system!

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #199 on: December 29, 2010, 02:21:24 PM »
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Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #200 on: December 29, 2010, 02:25:48 PM »
You are correct! In the case of a two stroke engine the cylinder has ports cut out of it. I haven't worked on a two stroke in more than thirty years but if I remember correctly both ports at some point in time are open so yes you kind of get a fuel mixture that wants to go right out the exhaust.. the path of least resistance. I suppose that the weight and density of the gas mixture as compared to the HHO is why there isn't a real problem with gasoline... other than the pure inefficiency of the system!

the best engine for this would be the Wankel engine in a smaller scale a normal 4 stroke has to many losses maybe a boxket style engine might work better

Offline mdlarouche

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #201 on: December 29, 2010, 02:33:02 PM »
sorry but at the point of ignition no valve should be open and they always fire just after tdc if not then they is a chance the engine could be kicked into reverse

You are right that all the valves must be closed at the point of ignition. A note to those wanting to experiment with timing... if your budget allows get one of them new fangled engines with variable valve timing. The newest generation of these engines is all computer controlled so you can really play with any scenario you'd like.

As for kicking an engine in reverse that wouldn't likely happen. I suppose if it were to fire accidently before top dead center it could begin rotation in the wrong direction but the remainder of the cycles would not continue because all the timings would be off. You'd more than likely suffer from a catastrophic failure before it would start running completely backwards.

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #201 on: December 29, 2010, 02:33:02 PM »
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Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #202 on: December 29, 2010, 02:36:02 PM »
You are right that all the valves must be closed at the point of ignition. A note to those wanting to experiment with timing... if your budget allows get one of them new fangled engines with variable valve timing. The newest generation of these engines is all computer controlled so you can really play with any scenario you'd like.

As for kicking an engine in reverse that wouldn't likely happen. I suppose if it were to fire accidently before top dead center it could begin rotation in the wrong direction but the remainder of the cycles would not continue because all the timings would be off. You'd more than likely suffer from a catastrophic failure before it would start running completely backwards.
you your are right it would only run backwards until moment is lost i wouldent say anything would be damaged maybe a flame out of the carb but other then that not alot

Offline mdlarouche

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #203 on: December 29, 2010, 02:36:06 PM »
You are right that all the valves must be closed at the point of ignition. A note to those wanting to experiment with timing... if your budget allows get one of them new fangled engines with variable valve timing. The newest generation of these engines is all computer controlled so you can really play with any scenario you'd like.

As for kicking an engine in reverse that wouldn't likely happen. I suppose if it were to fire accidently before top dead center it could begin rotation in the wrong direction but the remainder of the cycles would not continue because all the timings would be off. You'd more than likely suffer from a catastrophic failure before it would start running completely backwards.

I guess I should correct myself here... what I said above I was thinking in regards to a four stroke... a two stroke engine will in fact run backwards with no problem at all if ignition is given at the correct time.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #203 on: December 29, 2010, 02:36:06 PM »
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Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #204 on: December 29, 2010, 02:39:34 PM »
I guess I should correct myself here... what I said above I was thinking in regards to a stroke... a two stroke engine will in fact run backwards with no problem at all if ignition is given at the correct time.

 
lol that had sliped by me a 4 stroke wouldent but a 2 stroke in sence would yes
but we wont an effecent engine and well that counts a normal 4 stroke and 2 stroke out maybe a boxer engine or wankel may work best who knows a jet engine my also work but be way to dmn noisy

Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #205 on: December 29, 2010, 02:44:41 PM »
some one said delaying the spark dosent work that just bs
what you think  moveing the mag or pick up point of the ignition system dose
you are infact dealying the spark by moveing the points etc
so sorm sort of circuit to do this would work just as well

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #205 on: December 29, 2010, 02:44:41 PM »
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Offline mdlarouche

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #206 on: December 29, 2010, 03:20:06 PM »
some one said delaying the spark dosent work that just bs
what you think  moveing the mag or pick up point of the ignition system dose
you are infact dealying the spark by moveing the points etc
so sorm sort of circuit to do this would work just as well

I'm not sure weather that is in relation to a comment I posted but I thought I'll add this. The reason that you have the ability to change the electronic timing on an engine is to prevent engine knock... it has to do with the octane of gasoline. If the compression ratio is too high you get knock. If you set the spark to a point in the timing when full compression has not been reached then knock is eliminated because by the time that point is reached some of the fuel has been burned and some heat has been released to create better conditions for the remainder of the fuel mixture to burn more efficiently. 

Hydrogen of all fuels has the highest octane rating and is immune to causing engine knock so it is really unnecessary.  If there is any other reason for changing the timing in this manner... I don't see it but hey... I don't know everything. My dad is a mechanic of fifty years so I have learned from one of the best!

Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #207 on: December 29, 2010, 03:22:29 PM »
I'm not sure weather that is in relation to a comment I posted but I thought I'll add this. The reason that you have the ability to change the electronic timing on an engine is to prevent engine knock... it has to do with the octane of gasoline. If the compression ratio is too high you get knock. If you set the spark to a point in the timing when full compression has not been reached then knock is eliminated because by the time that point is reached some of the fuel has been burned and some heat has been released to create better conditions for the remainder of the fuel mixture to burn more efficiently. 

Hydrogen of all fuels has the highest octane rating and is immune to causing engine knock so it is really unnecessary.  If there is any other reason for changing the timing in this manner... I don't see it but hey... I don't know everything. My dad is a mechanic of fifty years so I have learned from one of the best!
yeah same for my father but i always thoght if it nocked you ajusted further past tdc been awhile since i done this so can not remeber exactly

Offline mdlarouche

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #208 on: December 29, 2010, 03:35:18 PM »
yeah same for my father but i always thoght if it nocked you ajusted further past tdc been awhile since i done this so can not remeber exactly

Actually I think you are right on that one...after tdc for knock and if you go before tdc it is simply because when you installed your rotor you might have been off a tooth. It would still run but would idle roughly. The only other situation where I think the electronic timing would come in play is on an engine  that was built using lean burn technology... Chrysler was big on this in the eighties.

Offline dasimpson

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Re: Selfrunning HHO system with 400 Watts additional output
« Reply #209 on: December 29, 2010, 03:39:06 PM »
Actually I think you are right on that one...after tdc for knock and if you go before tdc it is simply because when you installed your rotor you might have been off a tooth. It would still run but would idle roughly. The only other situation where I think the electronic timing would come in play is on an engine  that was built using lean burn technology... Chrysler was big on this in the eighties.

it also all depends on the rpm the engine is at as the rpm changed so dose the point of ignition and the length of combustion man i forgot how complercated tuning engines was

 

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