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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: tuckbone on December 16, 2010, 09:11:31 AM

Title: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: tuckbone on December 16, 2010, 09:11:31 AM
First post, so take it easy on me!  :P

I was reading up on Electron Microscopes, and read about the way they direct the electrons is through a magnetic lens of sorts. The magnetic force drives the electrons through a small gap, blah blah..

any body have any thoughts on focusing the magnetic field instead? sort of taking the field and condensing it, so that it's stronger or more condensed? Like focusing light down to make it brighter?

Just a thought..
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: Jerry Volland on December 16, 2010, 09:58:06 PM
Patent #5929732 shows a focusing assembly for making a magnetic beam.  The claim is that when focused in this way a small magnet's field will have an effect on the colors of a monitor's screen from a distance of a few feet.  It's also claimed that the focused beam can transmit electrical power.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 16, 2010, 10:45:38 PM
By "focusing" the magnetic field would this have the same effect as "shielding"??

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: Jerry Volland on December 16, 2010, 11:55:44 PM
By "focusing" the magnetic field would this have the same effect as "shielding"??

truesearch
This doesn't really shield the magnetism, it just squeezes into a beam.  At a distance this might be almost as good as shielding since shifting the beam a small angle would move it from the region of interaction.  There's also the question if a repelled magnet at a distance would produce a counter force on the focused magnet.

As far as I know the only things which will shield magnetism are a superconductor or a plasma.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 17, 2010, 12:33:23 AM
Hi Truesearch,

Welcome to the forum.

Hi Jerry,

I built patent #5929732 last year. It's a really interesting device. If you take a square magnet and run it over the beam area you will notice a push in the middle. A larger steel ball will make a larger (dome like) falloff of the beam. A small steel ball beam will make the beam narrower (pinpoint).

The magnets are pretty weak and it still put out a good beam. I wrapped a coil around the top magnet and pulsed it with a square wave into a air core coil it does pickup the signal, about a half foot away, on the scope. I was thinking of removing the top magnet and putting a iron core with a control coil to see if I could make a pulsed magnetic switch but never got back to it, so many projects, so little time.

If you could either focus or reflect magnetic fields then you could create a magnetic motor. From all my experimenting I haven't found a way yet.

Here are some pics of it.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: Jerry Volland on December 17, 2010, 01:40:15 AM
Hi DreamThinkBuild,

That's a good looking build.  Glad to know the patent is valid.  I wonder if you put an opposite polarity magnet into the beam if you could stretch the beam by pulling the magnet back?

I'm a firm believer in magnetic motors.  We just need a shield or reflector which doesn't require more energy than can be obtained from the motor, or produce too much repulsion while being slid into place.  Field switching also seems to be a good approach.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 17, 2010, 05:11:49 PM
@DreamThinkBuild

That is a nice looking concept build!

I'm trying to understand what the flux "field" or "map" would look like with this magnetic lens/beam. Got any ideas?

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 17, 2010, 09:11:20 PM
@DreamThinkBuild:

How "tight" or "focused" is this magnetic beam?

I was wondering if something like this rough diagram might work. It's simply a wheel with magnets situated around the edge at an angle so that the magnetic "beam" would push against the face of those magnets for rotational movement.

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 18, 2010, 12:54:53 AM
Hi Truesearch & Jerry,

I can only get a rough estimate of what the flux map feels like by dragging a flat magnet over the top. A large sphere will create a dome like beam and a smaller sphere will be tighter. There is a falloff it's not like a laser beam. Six inches was the falloff of this but the signal to the air core coil was weak.

The smaller the sphere the harder the challenge in getting the magnets to cooperate. You need, like in the patent, to have metal shafts or bolts so the magnets are away from each other but still linked to the sphere. If they are too close the magnets want to twist and snap together which provides many hours of enjoyable fun. :)

In your picture of the wheel you may need shielding on the edges of the magnet. When I take the flat magnet and place it anywhere near the edges it wants to snap down to the south sides of control magnets.

I drew a picture to show what the beam looks like this is just from passing a flat magnet over the beam area. The outer edges attract as you get to the center you can feel a noticeable push/repel up on the magnet. As for stretching I'm not sure, maybe with another ring of magnets around the beam area you could make a focus control.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: Jerry Volland on December 18, 2010, 02:29:49 AM
Hi DreamThinkBuild,

Those graphs look pretty interesting.  Since the blue sides of the magnets on the wheel would be attracted at the edges of the beam assembly, then repelled closer to the center, the question is if the wheel will rotate from one area to the next on its own momentum.  If not, the switching coil could provide a little help if pulsed correctly.  The gambit is whether the pulse energy can stay below the output from the wheel.  The beam angle might need to be adjusted, with the spacing also touchy.  What are your thoughts, having felt the relative strengths of the effect?
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 20, 2010, 06:02:30 PM
@DreamThinkBuild and @Jerry:

After seeing what you've posted and getting a little better grasp of the "possible" flux field/lines I wonder if the following magnetic "wheel" would potentially work. Look it over and see what you think.

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: tak22 on December 20, 2010, 07:33:31 PM
@DreamThinkBuild

A couple questions if you don't mind.

1. The patent makes no mention of what the focus sphere is made of, but it does say the connecting
bolts are nonferric. Have you tried a nonferric object to see if there is a difference?

2. If a ferric focal point works best, which works better, a sphere or a block?

thanks for any thoughts to these,

tak
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: FatBird on December 20, 2010, 08:14:07 PM
Why go thru all that work? 

Just get an old CRT PC Monitor & bust the neck part off the CRT.

Presto, you have an Electron Beam Gun, all FOCUSED & READY TO GO.

.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: neptune on December 20, 2010, 08:44:05 PM
@Fatbird . I am not sure that a magnetic beam and an electron beam are the same thing . Also once the tube looses its vacuum , the cathode heater [filament] would burn out if energised .Nice idea for all that .
Title: FEMRADD Generator
Post by: kampen on December 20, 2010, 10:12:48 PM
@ All,

Any NEWS and/or updates on this device?
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 20, 2010, 10:30:34 PM
To all:

Anyone involved here good with FEMM-4.2 or some other "magnetic-simulation" software? Maybe we could get an idea about the potential of the magnetic-beam.

I'm not any good with it yet. . . . .  ???

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: armagdn03 on December 21, 2010, 12:43:44 AM
Patent #5929732 shows a focusing assembly for making a magnetic beam.  The claim is that when focused in this way a small magnet's field will have an effect on the colors of a monitor's screen from a distance of a few feet.  It's also claimed that the focused beam can transmit electrical power.

Mr. Volland.....

 ;D great  find. I will elaborate on this back at our heretical place.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: Jerry Volland on December 21, 2010, 01:15:40 AM
@DreamThinkBuild and @Jerry:

After seeing what you've posted and getting a little better grasp of the "possible" flux field/lines I wonder if the following magnetic "wheel" would potentially work. Look it over and see what you think.

truesearch

It looks like it would have very little area where it might stick.  With a small amount of momentum, it looks like this might work.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 21, 2010, 04:43:46 PM
@Jerry:

I think that there is only 1 "sticky" spot in this arrangement (see following picture) and it appears like there would be sufficient "push" to get past it. However, I don't know how to calculate or simulate the experiment with the software I have.

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: armagdn03 on December 21, 2010, 06:12:54 PM
I am running a magnetic simulation as we speak, however I do not believe that the the "graph" that has been shown is correct, ill post results and pictures when done,

the key aspect of this is variation from the inverse cube law with respect to the "beam"
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 21, 2010, 06:26:47 PM
@armagdn03

Thanks for your help ~ I look forward to seeing your results on this.

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 21, 2010, 07:29:29 PM
Hi All,

I've been busy with the holidays and family coming to visit.

In the wheel setup I still think it will still find a sticky spot on the edges. I'm wondering though if instead of having the magnets perpendicular to the control magnet, angle them back 45 degrees on the sphere. It would look more like an arrow but the south facing field would be toward the back.

Hi Tak,

I used a steel ball bearing for the sphere. The magnets are directly pushed onto the sphere. The ring magnets are from K&J Magnetics http://72.3.133.7/proddetail.asp?prod=R636 . These have just the right inner diameter(3/16") to fit on the standard Lego shafts, which hold it in place. I have not tried a cube yet but might be interesting.

Hi Armagdn03,

I would be very interested in seeing the output of the magnetic simulation. If you have time could you try to simulate with the outer magnets swept back 45 degrees? Thank you.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 21, 2010, 07:53:16 PM
@DreamThinkBuild:

Not sure if I followed your idea on rotating the magnets. . . . Is this drawing sort of what you had in mind?

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: armagdn03 on December 21, 2010, 08:17:14 PM
Some preliminary photos for visulization (2d)

These are a 2d version of the original array,

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/11.jpg (http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/11.jpg)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/12.jpg (http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/12.jpg)

and an "improvement" where I cut off the pole at the bloch wall, seems to get better results.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/21.jpg (http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/21.jpg)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/22.jpg (http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/22.jpg)
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 21, 2010, 08:30:32 PM
@DreamThinkBuild:

Oops! After re-reading your post I realized that you were addressing the magnets in the "beam" array. My bad. . . .

Is this more like what you had in mind??

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: armagdn03 on December 21, 2010, 09:55:40 PM
someone is on their game....

http://www.leedskalnin.com/Bushman3.JPG (http://www.leedskalnin.com/Bushman3.JPG)
http://www.leedskalnin.com/00_00044.JPG (http://www.leedskalnin.com/00_00044.JPG)
http://www.leedskalnin.com/00_00043.JPG (http://www.leedskalnin.com/00_00043.JPG)

Here is the site:
http://www.leedskalnin.com/MagneticBeamAmplifierAP.html (http://www.leedskalnin.com/MagneticBeamAmplifierAP.html)
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 21, 2010, 10:15:23 PM
Hi Truesearch,

You got it. Make them 45 degrees so it minimizes the south pole influence.

Hi Armagdn03,

Thank you for the simulation images. The design of the Leedskalnin beam amplifier is really great. It looks like all the coils are series wound. Any other information on that build?
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: phoneboy on December 21, 2010, 11:39:36 PM
Looking @ that vizimag pic, seems like your lens is an incomplete halbach array? You can do some really interesting things with them!
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: dasimpson on December 22, 2010, 03:07:32 AM
i think the kogging will still happern ethern with a magnetic beam but i feel that the kogging would be greatly reduced because of the distance between the magnets
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 22, 2010, 05:42:23 PM
To all:

The simulated-flux field posted by @armagdn03 doesn't seem to reflect the experiments done by @DreamThinkBuild. I'm not sure what this tells us. ??? Perhaps Vizimag isn't calculating this design correctly as it is a 2D program and this is a 3D array.  :-\

@DreamThinkBuild, do you still have your "lego" build of the array? How difficult would it be to assemble a wheel with several magnets in repulsion on it and see what happens? I mean, if your time permits this.  ;D

Currently I'm not setup to do any experimental builds  :(

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: Jerry Volland on December 22, 2010, 05:58:13 PM
To all:

The simulated-flux field posted by @armagdn03 doesn't seem to reflect the experiments done by @DreamThinkBuild. I'm not sure what this tells us. ??? Perhaps Vizimag isn't calculating this design correctly as it is a 2D program and this is a 3D array.  :-\

@DreamThinkBuild, do you still have your "lego" build of the array? How difficult would it be to assemble a wheel with several magnets in repulsion on it and see what happens? I mean, if your time permits this.  ;D

Currently I'm not setup to do any experimental builds  :(

truesearch
The simulated flux field apparently doesn't include the central sphere.  This is likely to be a crucial difference, although Vizimag may not be able to include effects produced by this part of the apparatus.  Sims can only deal with effects which are programed in.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 22, 2010, 06:02:57 PM
@Jerry

I agree complete on your points. And just because the simulator doesn't offer much promise, the "reality" will probably only be evident in an experimental build.

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: armagdn03 on December 22, 2010, 07:56:49 PM
@J Volland

Agreed,

Im purchasing a few magnets specifically for this. Well see what is what.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: tak22 on December 22, 2010, 08:24:47 PM
I have a fully built array which seems to throw a pretty
impressive beam, but my interpretation of the patent led
me to make the central sphere nonferrous. I plan to try both
a ferrous block and a sphere to see what difference there is.

I don't have any bar magnets, just cubes and discs, but
I'll mount a few on a spinner and see if anything happens.

None of this will happen until next week.

tak
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 22, 2010, 08:38:02 PM
Sounds promising! I look forward to see what your results are in this experiment.

The reason I drew "bar-magnets" on the wheel diagram was simply to get the N/S poles seperated (via bloch-wall).

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on December 28, 2010, 10:12:57 PM
@armagdn03, @tak22

Hope everyone had a great Christmas holiday time.

Have either of you had any time to play with this "magnetic-beam" experiment anymore?

Wishing the best to all, and a happy, rewarding new year to everyone! 8)

truesearch
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: SuperCaviTationIstic on December 29, 2010, 10:51:56 PM
http://www.totalizm.org.pl/1_4e_pdf/14e_11.pdf

find the "telepathic telescope" thing in this.  It's actually something I thought up too.  Basically take a nightvision scope and add 2 magnets, one on either end, with the same polarity facing in.  You'll prevent rotationally polarized light from moving through it and only accept direct rays! The charge carriers that are bumped around because of the light hitting them (it's just a photomultiplier tube) try to spin one way, and then are forced to spin the other, but they don't want to, so only ones going straight make it through. same deal if you just make a polarizing glass lens with 2 opposite but equal spirals as the etches.  one clockwise and one counterclockwise, with the same center point. The interference patter on the glass forms a pyramid (prism) at each intersection of the spirals.  These ways are how I believe Royal Rife saw the microorganisms, and how classical astronomers were able to see the cities on other planets which they drew and wrote about.....
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on January 07, 2011, 08:57:40 PM
Hi All,

Just got a linear Hall effect sensor (UGN3503) up and running and went back and forth over the beam. I put the scope on 1s time scale and it looks exactly like a Gaussian beam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_beam

Anyone have any ideas on how to focus a magnetic field?

Hi Truesearch,

I haven't tried the wheel yet but I think if you could focus the beam narrower then you can start doing some really interesting things. Imagine a generator that just has a magnetic lens that moves in and out of the beam into a pickup coil.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: tak22 on January 07, 2011, 09:01:27 PM
Have either of you had any time to play with this "magnetic-beam" experiment anymore?
truesearch

I've acquired the ferrous focuser and determined it's worth pursuing, so next step is to
drill and tap it for mounting the magnet array. Soon.

tak
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on January 07, 2011, 09:35:35 PM
To all:

Sounds like encouraging progress! I'm looking forward to where this takes us.  ;D

@DreamThinkBuild
Quote
Anyone have any ideas on how to focus a magnetic field?

I'm not sure that this will be helpful or not. . . . It seems to me that this array is a 3-d Halbach-Array (sort of). Using ViziMag (which is only 2d) I've experimented a little and got the following interesting result. It's a simply 5-magnet Halbach with a soft-metal "flux-shield" around one end.
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: truesearch on January 18, 2011, 06:58:16 PM
@tak22:

How's your experiment going? Anything you care to show us yet?

trueseach
Title: Re: Magnetic 'Lens'
Post by: exnihiloest on January 19, 2011, 10:08:51 AM

What would be the interest of a magnetic lens?

To obtain a particular topological pattern of the magnetic field doesn't help. Field lines are looped and we can't neither modulate the flux along the field lines nor break the loops: they expand from and around the magnetic source, nothing is flowing along the lines.
The only problem to deal with for FE is that the flux is conservative. A lens won't change anything.