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Author Topic: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field  (Read 22606 times)

Offline JackH

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2006, 02:06:44 AM »
Hello z_p_e,

""2) You originally stated that the means of turning a magnet OFF was by way of applying a ~180kHz square wave across the magnet (perpendicular to the field).""

The above quote was not any of my idea.  I did not talk about using ~180kHz square wave across the magnet, that must have been someone else.  I have only two ways to turn on/off a permanent, one is by dc power(8 watts), the other is by means of a mechanical lever.  Both have been patent applied for. The dv voltage is not applied across the magnet, this I think would totally destroy the permanent magnet.

Later,,,,JackH



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Offline z_p_e

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2006, 04:21:22 AM »
Hi Jack, thanks for your response.

I see that I have made a mistake in thinking that this topic, as well as the "Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism..." topic were speaking of the same inventor. Being that you had posted in that topic, I assumed it was a more or less duplicate topic. I wonder if others made the same erroneous assumption.

Anyway, that definately cleared some things up...thank you.

You mentioned that 8 watts is required to do your switching, and again I'm wondering, what is the percentage reduction in the field?

You also mentioned that your method increases the strength of the magnet by 4X. In this "ON" state, are you still using 8 Watts of power? In other words, when using the DC voltage means of switchng the magnetic field, is 8 Watts of power required for both the "ON" AND "OFF" states?

Regards,
z_p_e

Offline JackH

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2006, 03:27:37 AM »
Hello z_p_e,

Well I'm sorry but I just do not know what you mean when you say, what is the percentage reduction in the field?

8 Watts of power is only needed for the ON cycle. No power is used during the off state, in fact it gives power back from back EMF during the off state. Currently I am just feeding this back EMF to ground through a capaciter, but it will be used in the future to help run the motor.  During the off state the magnetic field is at about 99% gone.

Later,,,,JackH


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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2006, 03:27:37 AM »
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Offline z_p_e

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2006, 04:10:39 AM »
Hi Jack. Sorry for the confusion.

What I mean by the ON state, is the default state of every magnet, with no influence to try and increase or decrease it's field by some external effect. In other words, take any normal magnet in your hand...this magnet its in it's ON state.

Now take that same magnet, influence it by some external effect (such as your invention), and the magnet's field is either reduced significantly, or eliminated all together....the magnet is now in what I have been calling an "OFF" state.

I am referring to the state the magnet's field is in, not when you are using the electric power (8 Watts) to achieve your effect.

What I meant by percentage reduction of the field, could be stated by a ratio such as: "100% - Boff/Bon", the magnetic field ratio of OFF to ON, taken from 100%. You have already answered that by saying 99%, thanks.

Quote
8 Watts of power is only needed for the ON cycle. No power is used during the off state


Having said what I meant by ON and OFF, and reference to the magnet vs. applied power, does your quote still stand, or is it now reversed?

Taking a stab:

[400% magnetic field strength, magnet ON state] = no electrical power required or applied
[1% magnetic field strength, magnet OFF state] = 8 Watts electrical power applied to achieve effect

Is this correct?

Regards,
Darren

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2006, 06:28:50 AM »
No power is used during the off state, in fact it gives power back from back EMF during the off state. ....
During the off state the magnetic field is at about 99% gone.

Later,,,,JackH


Ahh Jack, now I have understood your design.
You norrmally have shorted out the flux of the statormagnet
via a shortout core at the OFF state, no power required.

And then use an 8 Watts energy pulse via a coil around this
shortout core to redirect the flux
from the shortout core to a different core, where your rotor
magnet is driven , right ?

Looks like an "inverted" Flynn design then...
Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2006, 06:28:50 AM »
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Offline Mica Busch

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2006, 09:24:34 PM »
No power is used during the off state, in fact it gives power back from back EMF during the off state. ....
During the off state the magnetic field is at about 99% gone.

Later,,,,JackH


Ahh Jack, now I have understood your design.
You norrmally have shorted out the flux of the statormagnet
via a shortout core at the OFF state, no power required.

And then use an 8 Watts energy pulse via a coil around this
shortout core to redirect the flux
from the shortout core to a different core, where your rotor
magnet is driven , right ?

Looks like an "inverted" Flynn design then...
Regards, Stefan.

Actually, he previously mentioned that flynn's design could not be used for his purposes, because a motor requires an air-gap, and the flynn device requires direct contact or the magnetism has nowhere to 'flow'.

He refers to the use of a 'valve' to turn the magnets on and off, therefore I would think of it as a sort of field constriction, an analog of the water and air valves we are familiar with...

Offline JackH

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2006, 04:21:37 AM »
Hello hartiberlin,

You are close, but you still do not have the valve correct yet.   I have allready tryed what you have talked about.   Works but not very efficient.

Keep up the good work and you may get it.

Later,,,JackH

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2006, 04:21:37 AM »
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Offline z_p_e

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2006, 06:25:51 AM »
Quote
Actually, he previously mentioned that flynn's design could not be used for his purposes, because a motor requires an air-gap, and the flynn device requires direct contact or the magnetism has nowhere to 'flow'.

This is incorrect. Flynn has already adapted his method for rotation, see his website. Direct contact is not required. Magnetism will jump an air gap to flow through a higher permeable medium.

Quote
He refers to the use of a 'valve' to turn the magnets on and off, therefore I would think of it as a sort of field constriction, an analog of the water and air valves we are familiar with...

I would be cautious about assuming that "valve" really means "valve" in this case. Jack may have chosen the term "valve" because the end result is the same. I do not believe it is possible to cut off the flow of flux between the poles of a permanent magnet. Constricted or not, and diverted or not, the total flux flowing from pole to pole has to remain constant. Probably a more appropriate term for what Jack is doing is "switching" the magnet's field like a SPDT switch for flux, using a flux diversion means such as what Flynn et al are doing.

Jack, as you have said that Stefan was close in his analysis, I am assuming that mine is reversed.

As you have stated that your method increases the field strength by 400%, and that your method works for any size and strength of magnet, one must assume that the applied DC pulse (which is always 8 Watts) for the ON state, is not aiding the permanent magnet's field in any way.

Darren

Offline Mica Busch

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2006, 03:39:09 PM »
Quote
Actually, he previously mentioned that flynn's design could not be used for his purposes, because a motor requires an air-gap, and the flynn device requires direct contact or the magnetism has nowhere to 'flow'.

This is incorrect. Flynn has already adapted his method for rotation, see his website. Direct contact is not required. Magnetism will jump an air gap to flow through a higher permeable medium.

Ah! I see that now...  I think what I meant was that with an air-gap, the flux of the magnet wont be diverted unless power is applied, when power is switched off, the flux returns to its normal state. With direct contact, I would assume [assume!] that the flux would stay diverted, now that is has an easy path to follow - air is much more difficult to traverse than metal.
But as I have no experimental proofs to establish this, I cannot be sure.

And yes, the valve analog probably was not the best, but again my knowledge is limited as to the true workings of a magnet... It is intruiging though, a method to 'turn off' a magnet either electrically or mechanically... What comes to mind is a 'sheath' around the magnet periphery, not on the faces, but there to 'short circuit' and concentrate the flux lines into the sheath so there is minimal outer interaction...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2006, 03:39:09 PM »
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Offline nightwynd

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2006, 08:44:55 PM »
sorry to interrupt the train of thought - got into this thread a little late. The material in the hard drive that you were referring to is called mu metal. There are many companies around the web that can fabricate it - it also comes by the roll... mostly used for EM shielding, but apparantly can be used on Permanent magnets if it's thick enough. It also has some very interesting properties when hooked up to an ELF generator.

2 cents - spent.

Sincerely,
nightwynd

Offline romerouk

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2010, 09:51:03 PM »
Anyone can replicate this setup and I hope I will get some confirmations soon. Do the simple testing, first from the instructions in the picture below and I am waiting for someone to replicate it soon.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2010, 09:51:03 PM »
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Offline aaron5120

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2010, 06:24:47 AM »
Dear Romerouk,
I am willing to replicate your idea. Can U please provide a little bit more data of the setup? How many turns and gauge of the magnet wires used in the Mumetal core, and number of turns and gauge in the pickup coil?
Also if you can give hints about the frequency used for the pulsing, is it all right a 30% duty cycle of 50KHz square wave pulse? 5V peak to peak?
Aaron5120

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2010, 08:19:05 AM »
Good to see you around romerouk.  As far as frequency goes it would probably be best to take any advice romerouk has but if he doesn't get back around here soon you might try something around 180 Khz as I had some info saved from someone else that this frequency worked in turning off a magnet.  Although at 180 Khz it was likely a different setup using solid state switching.  It appears the setup above uses a relay which I'm sure can't turn on and off at that frequency. 

Offline romerouk

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2010, 03:28:09 PM »
Dear Romerouk,
I am willing to replicate your idea. Can U please provide a little bit more data of the setup? How many turns and gauge of the magnet wires used in the Mumetal core, and number of turns and gauge in the pickup coil?
Also if you can give hints about the frequency used for the pulsing, is it all right a 30% duty cycle of 50KHz square wave pulse? 5V peak to peak?
Aaron5120
Hi,
I have used different gauge and different size of wire. All depends of the magnet used also the size of your mumetal core.Better is to try yourself with different turns and size, depending of what u have. Build only one coil only and after attaching the magnet to the core make sure that the magnetic field is not penetrating the core.Hang a small piece of metal at some distance from the coil(eg. 1cm) then power the coil.Use small voltage, starting with 1 volt and see what you need to transform the core into an electromagnet but just enough to allow the magnet field to pass thru.Too much voltage will cancel the effect.
I am attaching below a picture that can explain more.
Success all!

Offline luishan

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Re: Turning on and off a Pernament Magnet Field
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2010, 08:00:50 PM »
Thank you for your efforts to share with us about the device.
Would show us working prototype on Youtube with explain.
Thanks.

 

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