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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: hartiberlin on November 17, 2010, 11:47:43 AM

Title: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: hartiberlin on November 17, 2010, 11:47:43 AM
Hi All,
what do you think about this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus)

It reminds me of the principle of the Finsrud machine,
but here puts it to work as a real selfrunning permanent magnet powered
motor.

Is this the holy grail we have been looking for ?

It seems to combine magnetic fields and gravity fields to produce
a working magnet motor.

Please comment.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 17, 2010, 11:55:03 AM
well done!

i hope more info is forthcoming...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on November 17, 2010, 11:58:10 AM
I think you don't really want a comment on that.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Cherryman on November 17, 2010, 12:02:25 PM
Well at first sight it looks good.

The only "thing" i can think of that would NOT make it a self-runner is that the starting point of the "flywheel" (The white shaped thing) is at the top.  So it could be that gravitation give it a start energy with will slowly drop of.

Also i wonder if it could do work.

We should see it running for an hour at least.

Anyway it looks nice and promising. 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on November 17, 2010, 12:05:57 PM
"The only "thing" i can think of that would NOT make it a self-runner is that the starting point of the "flywheel" (The white shaped thing) is at the top.  So it could be that gravitation give it a start energy with will slowly drop of."

Doh..
You just spoiled all the fun.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: hartiberlin on November 17, 2010, 12:07:16 PM
Hmm,
it does not seem to slow down.
so the friction would have killed it already after a few spins, if the top white shaped thing would
only work as a start acceleration by letting it go from the top..
I hope he will show it in an outdoor location where there could be no
hidden coils or something like this.

I suggested this already to the  inventor Roobert33 and I hope he will come
forward with more infos.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: hartiberlin on November 17, 2010, 12:16:36 PM
Actually, you see at Minute 1:33 as he pulled the plug and the white shaped circle thing hits the
upper magnet repeller the first time, that the wheel accelerates !

So it is accelerating to a speed, where the friction and magnet-gravity propellation
balances out its forces.

I agree, that it would be nice to see it running much longer time and
in a place, where there could be no hidden power sources like hidden coils
or something like this.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 17, 2010, 01:14:09 PM
Just to give my dime's worth of observation.  The white disc thing is only used as a mechanical mechanism, used to lift (top and bottom) both magnets at just the perfect time, to prevent the "sticky spot" from stopping the motor.   It is using this mechanical aspect to overcome the much reknown sticky spot.  That is the only reason it is there, and the device would otherwise not work.  I think it is a fine piece of engineering (if real) and a creative approach.

Bruce
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 17, 2010, 01:37:55 PM
Stephan,
Are you in contact with the builder?
Looks along the lines of Ehrfinder's Design [which he never Open sourced].

Thank you,
Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on November 17, 2010, 01:42:03 PM
Hi, Ramses!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 17, 2010, 02:07:34 PM
Sup Spinner?

This one looks like it really might work?

Chet
PS
The more I watch it the more I like it!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 17, 2010, 02:16:01 PM
Hi All,
what do you think about this video from
Roobert33:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus

It reminds me of the principle of the Finsrud machine,
but here puts it to work as a real selfrunning permanent magnet powered
motor.

Is this the holy grail we have been looking for ?

It seems to combine magnetic fields and gravity fields to produce
a working magnet motor.

Please comment.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
In my opinion, this motor smells bad. I have placed a comment on this video about some critical issues.

The table (Makes it possible to hide a "activation magnet" or power supply under the table)
Precise placement of the motor during rotation of the whole motor (Like "For Gods sake, do not move the motor away from the spot where the hidden power supply are")
Unstable RPM (Slows down, then suddenly speeds up - bad timing of the manual seesaw magnet setup under the table...)
It slows down rapidly BEFORE the hand stops the wheel (Maybe he removed the foot away from the powerswitch too early...)
This motor are mechanicly stable enough to lift it up by two hands - in case of proof of a working device without hidden power supply.

Untill the inventor can show me a totally independent motor, I will be sceptic.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: happyfunball on November 17, 2010, 03:32:21 PM
So that's what Mylow's brother has been up to...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: happyfunball on November 17, 2010, 03:33:52 PM
It slows down rapidly BEFORE the hand stops the wheel (Maybe he removed the foot away from the powerswitch too early...)

Bingo.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 17, 2010, 03:36:16 PM
So that's what Mylow's brother has been up to...
ahh!! the 'string theory' supporters have arrived. oh, it's all over now but the crying... ::)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: happyfunball on November 17, 2010, 04:09:52 PM
ahh!! the 'string theory' supporters have arrived. oh, it's all over now but the crying... ::)

It slows down a moment before he stops it. External device 100%.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: itanimuLLi on November 17, 2010, 04:22:55 PM
the original video is removed from yuotube.


Maybe Querdenker or Clanzer want to replicate this setup  ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 17, 2010, 05:55:20 PM
Happy

!00%??

This is'nt our first rodeo Bud!!

Just saying the words "Magnet Motor" still makes me break out in Hives!!

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: poynt99 on November 17, 2010, 06:00:07 PM
It appears to slow down around 2:02, speed up, then slow down again just before he stops it.

.99
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 17, 2010, 06:12:52 PM
It appears to slow down around 2:02, speed up, then slow down again just before he stops it.

.99
perhaps the rotor is being attracted to the wristwatch he has on his right arm. it's barely visible under his sleeve as he moves his hand in and out of the shot.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 17, 2010, 07:03:11 PM
perhaps the rotor is being attracted to the wristwatch he has on his right arm. it's barely visible under his sleeve as he moves his hand in and out of the shot.
This is ofcourse possible, but a smooth approach towards a spinning magnet should not affect the rotor that much. If this is the case anyways, there must be a considerable attraction between his wristwatch and the motor - so much so the motor should "jump" instantly towards his wristwatch. This did not happen. My gut feeling anyways. I am still sceptic :)

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 17, 2010, 07:08:49 PM
This is ofcourse possible, but a smooth approach towards a spinning magnet should not affect the rotor that much. If this is the case anyways, there must be a considerable attraction between his wristwatch and the motor - so much so the motor should "jump" instantly towards his wristwatch. This did not happen. My gut feeling anyways. I am still sceptic :)

Vidar
i was just following suit and tossing out assumptions with the 'string theory' guys. ;)

so much so that the motor should "jump" instantly? really? you know then the weight of apparatus and the strength of the magnets? as well as the amount of resistance via friction provided by the pads around the circumference of the base to the table? is this then possibly the reason he so carefully keeps his hand low on the apparatus when adjusting it's position?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: broli on November 17, 2010, 08:03:18 PM
When was the original video posted?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 17, 2010, 08:17:38 PM
at 0:43 you can see the rotor move as his hand nears the vertical support. it appears to be attracted to his wristwatch at this point in the video. or he bumped it with his hand, hard to say from the camera angle.

anyone else notice the magnet on the inside of the wheel @ 0:59? and the hole 90 degrees from it...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spider4re on November 17, 2010, 08:57:34 PM
at 0:43 you can see the rotor move as his hand nears the vertical support. it appears to be attracted to his wristwatch at this point in the video. or he bumped it with his hand, hard to say from the camera angle.

anyone else notice the magnet on the inside of the wheel @ 0:59? and the hole 90 degrees from it...

its not a wristwatch. it is just "jaggies" from the video. You see the same artifact/effect with the spinning white piece.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: pese on November 17, 2010, 09:11:29 PM
nothing ist lost

here free upload...

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2981115/Magnet-motor.mp4.html


interessantly way to move over
the sticky-point.

perhaps rotation power ?
Perhaps, battery and electromagnet
is working.

Because most perpetuum NEED AN EXTRA POWER   ::) :o

www.alt-nrg.de/pppp (pese)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 17, 2010, 09:22:08 PM
its not a wristwatch. it is just "jaggies" from the video. You see the same artifact/effect with the spinning white piece.
i know what video aliasing looks like... and i wasn't assuming that was his watch. i was assuming the bulge underneath the black of his shirt was.
i was just following suit and tossing out assumptions with the 'string theory' guys. ;)

edit: i am on a handheld, when i get to a pc where i can grab a screenshot i will show you where i am assuming a wristwatch is. i apologize for the way i orginally said it, i can see how it would give you the impression i meant the 'jaggies'.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: melsoft on November 17, 2010, 09:40:37 PM
i want 2 make a replica of this motor, could u please send me plans and directions pls???
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 17, 2010, 11:04:33 PM
i was just following suit and tossing out assumptions with the 'string theory' guys. ;)

so much so that the motor should "jump" instantly? really? you know then the weight of apparatus and the strength of the magnets? as well as the amount of resistance via friction provided by the pads around the circumference of the base to the table? is this then possibly the reason he so carefully keeps his hand low on the apparatus when adjusting it's position?
He he, no, I don't know anything about the weight :), but what I can assume from what I see, like how fast the rotor stops, tells me something about the relative relationship between the mass in the wheel, and the time it takes to slow it down. If the wristwatch are the reason why the rotor slows down, there must be a relationship between the attraction to the steel in the watch and the magnetic properties of those neo-magnets that can tell if the attraction between those two are strong enough to pull them together. The rest of the machine are basicly plastic and wood, and probably quite light weight.

Also one other thing is the fact that eddy currents would be the main reason why this motor slowed down. If eddy currents was this strong, on that distance, of a relatively small watch, the pull between the neos and the watch would be quite extreme.

The careful movement of the motor is possibly because he want to keep the motor exactly in the same position on the table. The motor does not seam that fragile, that he couldn't handle it less carefully.

After a few clips on u-tube with "working" magnet motors, there has never been a single demonstration of a motor that is totally independent of the surroundings - in spite of several questions about the this particular way to really proove a working magnet motor. The inventor of this this particular motor should already know in advance that the sceptics would question the surroundings and suspect a possible hidden power source.

I hope this motor is good stuff, but I am very scaptic to the way he demonstrate the motor.

EDIT: I read the previous posts, and wached the end of the video again - there is no wristwatch... maybe hidden under his sweater...

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: woopy on November 17, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
Hi all

woww!!

no time to blabla   it seems too good

i replicate

it is not so hard for a so simple design and no big and expensive alu rotor and exotic u special magnet à la Mylow


one hour work and i did my Calloway  drum with flat neo magnets glued on the plastic drum with double sided scotch, reinforced by external scoch.

2 lines of 33 magnet each

one is south  and the second is north

and the drum is fixed on a HDD without magnet to spinn really free.
and now

1- feel the system

2- try the sticky spot

3- replicate a good mechanism

4 . do not have too much illusion

5- good luck at all

Laurent

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 17, 2010, 11:36:09 PM
I'm posting this comment By "Harvey" at Energetic,
Because He has done some research on why this could work [the last part of this comment]

Quote:

Too bad the battery holders . . . I mean upright supports are not transparent

Sadly, they are large enough to not only house a battery stack but also a motor to drive the axle. All that is needed in that regard is the energy addition necessary to lift the stator magnet out of the conservative loop.

Because the cam would provide a gravity assist in normal conditions, it would have been good to see the device at rest with the cam down. If it truly worked as shown, without any momentum, it would settle calmly to a minimum point of gravitational potential energy balance with the magnetic fields. But if the rotor was driven by a motor, it would not come to rest in this way, but would begin bobbing as it tries to lift the cam against the gravitational minimum and finds its resonant position.

Since these two conditions are avoided (transparent supports, natural state of rest) the video is suspect.

That being said, I have shown with my M.A.P. tests that energy can be extracted from these two conservative fields when they are separated properly into non conservative parts. This device may exhibit such a separation. In my tests, mathematical projections showed there was approximately 10x the energy available for extraction than was required to drive the trigger mechanism. So while the output energy was minuscule, it was cumulative.

Why has Roobert33 removed the video?
YouTube - Roobert33's Channel
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: poynt99 on November 18, 2010, 01:56:07 AM
From what I can tell, he is not wearing a wristwatch. Also, if he was, it should have also affected the RPM when he was moving the unit around, but it did not appear to.

Careful observation seems to indicate that the RPM throughout is somewhat erratic.

.99
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: XS-NRG on November 18, 2010, 02:07:40 AM
fake
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on November 18, 2010, 02:43:31 AM
The device looks simple to replicate, why don't we try it first before we conclude.  ;D

for the truth will set you free. John 4:26
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: pultimo on November 18, 2010, 08:10:56 AM
Beautiful! Fake but beautiful..! Ideal for Xmas!
It looks like a pulse motor: I bet the magnet below IS NOT a magnet, otherwise its movement is totally unexplainable. If it was a real magnet its movement would SLOW DOWN and NOT accelerated the wheel, so....fake, but beautiful
:-)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 18, 2010, 09:13:30 AM
I'd like to see this running inside a bell jar (or plastic enclosure), on an open frame so we can see underneath it -- and running for at least 10 min.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Airstriker on November 18, 2010, 10:31:21 AM
rapid acceleration at the beggining + rapid stop at the end = fake = waste of time
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 18, 2010, 05:34:11 PM
I'd like to see this running inside a bell jar (or plastic enclosure), on an open frame so we can see underneath it -- and running for at least 10 min.
10 min are the limit for youtube, isn't it? Anyway, I think your request will never be met ::) People has been asking for such setups many times, but no new videos... They removes the original videos, rather than displaying the truth.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: sterlinga on November 18, 2010, 07:36:49 PM
I'm looking forward to any replications that will prove/disprove this design. The video doesn't rule out the possibility of the rotation coming from blowing air.

I've created a page about this over at http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:_Mechanical_Opener_for_V-Gate_Magnet_Motor

and I've made an animation gif.

Sterling
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Jdo300 on November 18, 2010, 07:39:07 PM
Hey Everyone,

Just a quick observation in case you missed it. If you look closely at the 'magnets' that he has in the V track, you'll notice that the ends appear to be faced off (as in turned on a lathe to create a smooth finish). This seems to imply that the track is not actually made up of magnets (Neos would actually have a smooth, mirror finish on the ends, not a machined look). These are probably slugs of magnetic steel used to attract to the magnet on the moving arm.

- Jason O
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 18, 2010, 08:15:33 PM
In my opinion, the data presented thus far support no conclusions at this time.  Having said that, I too see some things that really bother me about this video.  I believe all, if not most of them, have been mentioned in the above posts so, no use repeating them.

The first one that always gets my attention is the stupid music that we have heard on many such videos.  If I had built this and it really worked, I would want the folks to hear the smooth action and the clicking of the mechanisms and also to know there was no air supply running it.

The way the fellow exactly positions the device several times looks a little funny also.  The device is in the shot but yet, it has to be moved just right before the demo.

Anyway, a lot to think about but, I am leaning toward the side of it not being a real device at this time.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 18, 2010, 10:30:07 PM
Just a quick observation in case you missed it. If you look closely at the 'magnets' that he has in the V track, you'll notice that the ends appear to be faced off (as in turned on a lathe to create a smooth finish). This seems to imply that the track is not actually made up of magnets (Neos would actually have a smooth, mirror finish on the ends, not a machined look). These are probably slugs of magnetic steel used to attract to the magnet on the moving arm. -Jason O

Hi Jason -- good observation.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 18, 2010, 11:26:52 PM
Hi Jason -- good observation.

I agree the magnets on the rotor look a little suspect from the video.   They may really be chrome plated plastic to keep the cost down.  With only the bottom or top stator magnets really involved to move the rotor.  The inside center of the rotor could have a pulsed coil and battery.   (hope the battery is not to hard to change and lasts)

Nice work... great kit.  Where can I buy one of these?   I looks like it is near production quality.   
It would be a great desktop kinetic energy toy..
 
Just think the moving sticks  in Ironman cost over $200.   
This could sell for almost as much if made more real.  However it is still a great toy invention. 

Bill   
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: TinselKoala on November 18, 2010, 11:35:40 PM
Well well well.
Since we know that standard every-day physics -- the kind that explains how your Prius hybrid works -- tells us that permanent magnet-only motors cannot work by themselves, the default position MUST be that the device and the claims of self-running are not for real, UNTIL someone actually shows unequivocally that it does run itself. And roobert isn't  going to be showing us anything like that.
Replicators will be having fun with this one. I can only encourage the builders to do the correct control experiments along the way. There will be a time when you've got a completed assembly and you are trying various things to get it to self-sustain. So rig up a way to give the rotor a repeatable starting spin -- perhaps using a weight and a string and a pulley like I showed with MyLOW -- and then compare rundown times for your device WITH and WITHOUT the critical stator magnet in place. Substitute a non-magnetic weight for it and use a stopwatch, get an average of ten or twenty runs in each condition.
If you EVER get a configuration that runs longer with the stator magnet in place, rather than an inert weight....please let me know ASAP so I can open the financial floodgates for you.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 19, 2010, 12:18:12 AM
TK:

I agree with you.  I always "hope" that one of these is real and then want to replicate it but, this one has quite a few irregularities from the get go and more observations are still coming in.  At least, I don't see any fish line in this one, ha ha.

Man, will we ever forget that?

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 19, 2010, 12:40:09 AM
I agree,  we all wish and hope this to be real.. 

Does this look similar?   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLwEs0iu7U
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: powercat on November 19, 2010, 12:51:37 AM
Youtube magnet motor 2076, it is only a guess but it seems that many,
anyone know how many they have been on Youtube ?  anyway it's a lot,
is there ever going to be a way to make these things work, hummmmmm  ::)
cat
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2010, 12:56:22 AM
Hi All,
I just received this message from Robert:

Roobert33 has sent you a message:
R: Re: robert
To:overunitydotcom

Yes, It was a joke that I should not do! I apologize to you and all your friends who have lost time in commenting on ....
The device had to operate the magnet inside a coil that I had in my shirt. Greeting, Robert


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: grizli on November 19, 2010, 01:18:14 AM
Hi All,
I just received this message from Robert:

Roobert33 has sent you a message:
R: Re: robert
To:overunitydotcom

Yes, It was a joke that I should not do! I apologize to you and all your friends who have lost time in commenting on ....
The device had to operate the magnet inside a coil that I had in my shirt. Greeting, Robert

hmm ?  :(

so its fake

this principle seemed promising  ;D
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 19, 2010, 03:11:12 AM
The device had to operate the magnet inside a coil that I had in my shirt.
So, how does it operates anyway: how does it respond to a remoted coil? If this guy lies, the lie is right here.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on November 19, 2010, 03:37:15 AM
I believe it is fake and operated from something like a Li-cell in the supports and the contact is the small disk and the metal rod on the right.
The coil inside his shirt? No, it would be too difficult to time a changing RPM and also who would be stupid enough to put the coil in his SHIRT! (you could just put it under the table)

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Poit on November 19, 2010, 03:39:01 AM
My theory on these devices that seem to work (visually) is this:

People make something, find out it doesn't work, then spend more time making it work at any cost (cheating lol).. then making a video..

I believe its a pride issue?

Take this for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5lXNpOnurw I believe he really did try and get this to work, when failed, he cheated (using magnets below table or coil etc etc)...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 19, 2010, 03:54:28 AM
To all.
Imagine this: when you take away the flywheel from four-stroke Internal Combustion Engine, it won't work.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: sterlinga on November 19, 2010, 05:07:40 AM
Hi All,
I just received this message from Robert:

Roobert33 has sent you a message:
R: Re: robert
To:overunitydotcom

Yes, It was a joke that I should not do! I apologize to you and all your friends who have lost time in commenting on ....
The device had to operate the magnet inside a coil that I had in my shirt. Greeting, Robert

At least he came clean early.

Sheesh.

Why do people do this?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on November 19, 2010, 05:22:08 AM
hi everyone

can someone make a fake replication of this please?
 
 intentionally do it in fake design.

;D

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 19, 2010, 07:13:31 AM
At least he came clean early.

Sheesh.

Why do people do this?

Sterling:

God only knows why.  Such a waste of time for the builder and all of those who attempt to replicate.  To me, it is a total waste.

Stefan:

Thank you for letting us know.  As mentioned, at least you found out in the early days, which is a good thing for everyone.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: markdansie on November 19, 2010, 08:53:07 AM
Hi Bill,
I sent the video out to many of my friends around the world including Sterling. It was part of 101 sceptics. Everyone passed with flying colours
Except Sterling...you got to love the guy.
mark
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 19, 2010, 10:32:20 AM
Hi Bill,
I sent the video out to many of my friends around the world including Sterling. It was part of 101 sceptics. Everyone passed with flying colours
Except Sterling...you got to love the guy.
mark
you made this video mark?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 19, 2010, 10:56:21 AM
About wasting time on replicas: It should be at least one rule to follow before anyone spend time on replicas. And that should be quite obvious; Make sure that the video does show everything. This means in general a device which works outdoor far away from things we can suspect is powering this device. A through display of all the parts, including assambling, and running.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 19, 2010, 11:19:39 AM
 >:(
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 19, 2010, 11:22:24 AM
I am now just waiting for the next part of the story.... where some men in black came by and told him to tell everyone it was fake and they took the motor away.     

Anyway,  I still think it would make a great desktop kinetic energy toy if he could get the coil and battery hidden inside.... maybe a fake base.   

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 19, 2010, 12:33:05 PM
Hi, Skeptics.
This guy speaks. You can ask him where, how and why he hides the tiny horses which move his motor.  Calloway V Gate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Poit on November 19, 2010, 12:39:55 PM
Hi, Skeptics.
This guy speaks. You can ask him where, how and why he hides the tiny horses which move his motor.  Calloway V Gate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg&NR=1&feature=fvwp

The "Tiny horses" you speak of is simply the motion of his hand. Everything you see in that clip is legit, no free energy though, the "energy" is coming from him moving his hand up and down to get past the sticky point.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 19, 2010, 12:59:16 PM
The "Tiny horses" you speak of is simply the motion of his hand.
Exactly! And this same function in Rooberts', is the moving frame. The wheel functions as a flywheel. When you take away the flywheel from four-stroke Internal Combustion Engine, it won't work. More:http://www.callowayengines.com/index.htm
Edited
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 19, 2010, 01:25:32 PM
Exactly! And this same function in Rooberts', is the moving frame. The wheel functions as a flywheel. When you take away the flywheel from four-stroke Internal Combustion Engine, it won't work. More:http://www.callowayengines.com/index.htm
Edited
but this isn't a four-stroke ICE... and not all engines need flywheels. ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 19, 2010, 01:51:31 PM
but this isn't a four-stroke ICE... and not all engines need flywheels. ;)
Right! It's not ICE. And your argumentation is not backed by real experiments, it's just theorization. That's why modern science is always backed by real experiments. Anyway, to my knowledge no ICE exists without flywheel; even Wankel has one.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 19, 2010, 01:55:47 PM
Right! It's not ICE. And your argumentation is not backed by real experiments, it's just theorization. That's why modern science is always backed by real experiments. Anyway, to my knowledge no ICE exists without flywheel; even Wankel has one.
so what's your point? this vgate thing is not a 4stroke ICE... it's not even similar. ::)
ok, so to your knowledge no ICE exist without a flywheel, so what... is this vgate thing an ICE? there are other piston engines that do exist and do run without a flywheel. here is some experimentation to back my argument... ::)
http://home.ctlnet.com/~robotguy67/classic_cars/air_engines/V-Twin/air_engines.htm
you can post your mea culpa anytime. ;)

even wankel... oooohh.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 19, 2010, 02:18:56 PM
QWert
I agree, calloway has to be where Robertto started on his trip to madness!
Seems like it should work!

We loose experimenters all the time this way!
They Go nuts!
I really can't blame them ,The little gray cells get soft!

A consequence of seeking OU.
We've seen this before and we'll see it again!
Maybe we should start a 12 step group for some of these poor addicted souls?

I know what I want for Christmas
A "calloway" !!
Gotta try it!!

Chet

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 19, 2010, 02:48:42 PM

even wankel... oooohh.
My point is, that you can't say anything for sure until you make a real experiment on real subject. And your behaviour guys, is theorization only. I believe that you know that there are some examples in real world where something works against rationality or against human judgement.
Pneumatic motor is not an ICE and not an engine; it works on already energized air, like electric motor works on previously created electric current. Also a "motor" cannot be called an "engine" since "engine" always resembles a generator and "motor" never. And this kind of machine (Roobert's) can be called a generator since it does not rely on earlier created energy. That's why I compare it rather to the ICE and not to the "electric motor".
Modified:
And why four-stroke ICE? With human rationality it should not work since three strokes of four are idle, even worse, one of those three is "compression": in fact, it would not work without energy conserving flywheel.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 19, 2010, 02:51:56 PM
Stephan,
PLease ask Roberto to come here!
Tell him we understand!!

Some of your friends would like to play with his idea!!
Or just send us a PDF on what he has done to date!

You have to at least ask him!!
For Christmas  ;D

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 19, 2010, 03:55:08 PM
Chet:

Great idea.  This, at least, might give us an insight into his mindset.  This design is elegant and well built, so what I want to know is, did he try, and try this and it did not work?  Or, was this a red herring from the start?

And, if so, why?

We all might just learn something that might help us in the future.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Jubjub on November 19, 2010, 05:22:49 PM
And now it seems I wasted my time yesterday, adding sound to the original video to time the speed, just to learn that Youtube was broken so I couldn't upload....  :D
Well, today Youtube works again and if you want you can check out my video here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMkeC2ApNO0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMkeC2ApNO0)
Draw your own conclusions  ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: poynt99 on November 19, 2010, 05:47:14 PM
And now it seems I wasted my time yesterday, adding sound to the original video to time the speed, just to learn that Youtube was broken so I couldn't upload....  :D
Well, today Youtube works again and if you want you can check out my video here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMkeC2ApNO0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMkeC2ApNO0)
Draw your own conclusions  ;)

Nice job Jubjub.

Actually, if you listen to the beeps carefully, you will see that the rpm is fairly erratic throughout, as I mentioned before.

.99
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Golden Mean on November 19, 2010, 05:51:56 PM
I spent quite a bit of time on this idea several years ago and from my tests I believe this is possible and probably genuine.  I'm still not convinced it will have enough torque to do much work (yet), but I believe this design would run until something wears out.  If the wheel were much larger that would help and using more powerful magnets would give more torque as well.  Once the torque is there, it's just a matter of adding some gearing to get a generator up to speeds needed to provide some useful power generation.  ;D
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 19, 2010, 06:03:08 PM
GoldenMean
Are you sterlinga's brother?
Only kidding!!

Stephan, Please get more info from Roberto!!
Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 19, 2010, 06:06:49 PM
My point is, that you can't say anything for sure until you make a real experiment on real subject. And your behaviour guys, is theorization only. I believe that you know that there are some examples in real world where something works against rationality or against human judgement.
Pneumatic motor is not an ICE and not an engine; it works on already energized air, like electric motor works on previously created electric current. Also a "motor" cannot be called an "engine" since "engine" always resembles a generator and "motor" never. And this kind of machine (Roobert's) can be called a generator since it does not rely on earlier created energy. That's why I compare it rather to the ICE and not to the "electric motor".
Modified:
And why four-stroke ICE? With human rationality it should not work since three strokes of four are idle, even worse, one of those three is "compression": in fact, it would not work without energy conserving flywheel.
on your first point i agree completely. now let's get to the rest...
really? shall we talk about rockets then? are they motor or engines? and what of an outboard motor...?? and what of a steam engine that works on 'already energized air'?? and now you say a magnet wheel is a generator and therefore should be compared to an internal combustion engine vrs compared to a generator?? LOL
yes i am aware the word 'engine' came from the term 'heat engine' and the word 'motor' came from the term 'electric motor'. regardless, your semantic argument is weak. and now you are running off on a tangential red herring about what can be compared to what...

since we are now arguing semantics i would like to comment on this statement of yours:
Quote
since it does not rely on earlier created energy.
it is said energy cannot be created nor destroyed...

my point was and is that your comment about engines not running without flywheels is laughable, even more so now that you are arguing what is and isn't an engine... and the comparision you made to this vgate wheel is irrelevant, also even more so now that you are arguing what is and isn't an engine.

edit for those who don't know what a flywheel does: flywheels maintain the continuity of motion and smooth out the pulses from individual pistons/cylinders, no matter whether those piston are in a pneumatic engine or an internal combustion engine... in the case of most ICE's, the flywheel includes a harmonic balancer to improve the smoothness of rotation of the flywheel/crankshaft.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Golden Mean on November 19, 2010, 06:16:25 PM
GoldenMean
Are you sterlinga's brother?
Only kidding!!

Stephan, Please get more info from Roberto!!
Chet

Hmm... I don't know who sterlina is so that joke went far over my head.   ::)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 19, 2010, 06:47:52 PM
just to clear up any semantic red herrings that may appear...

in terms of etymology, originally motor was just another word for mover, especially "the prime mover", i.e., the thing that moves the rest of the device. originally, an engine was any device or system (mechanical, chemical, electrical, or even human, social, or political) that effects a result: a catapult is an engine, a crane is an engine, a bomb is an engine, a political party is an engine, a water-powered mill is an engine, a criminal gang is an engine, and a man with a singleness of purpose is an engine... gradually through the 19th century "engine" became especially (but not exclusively) associated with fire, boilers, furnaces, and bombs -- in short any device that tended to get very hot and explode, but the whole system was still considered "the engine", not just the prime mover (the motor). in the 20th century, americans took to calling a car motor "the engine", even though the suspension system, steering system, braking system, gearing, and whole drive train are really collectively "the engine".

also, the word engine comes from the latin word INGENIUM (from which we also get "ingenious") and prior to the 1800's just meant any contrivance that acheives an intended result. it can be and is still used this way. and "motor" comes from the latin word MOTO. it did not originate with "electric motor",  there were motors long before that. motors powered by wound springs. the fact that faraday felt obliged to put the qualifying adjective "electrical" in front of "motor" implies he did so to distinguish it from the common motors of his day. the same is true for watt's placement of the term "steam" in front of "engine" to qualify what kind of engine it was, and to thus distinguish it from the typical engines of his day...

;)

qwert, you can post your mea culpa anytime... :)
edit: i'm just teasing on ya man. don't take me serious...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: grizli on November 19, 2010, 07:53:44 PM
It still seems it may work
Guys.. try to  replicate it :D

IS THIS FAKE ????????



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0oUaPZ_wF8

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: powercat on November 19, 2010, 08:22:02 PM
No no replicate this one from 1965, more fun!  ;D

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=1869 (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=1869)

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 19, 2010, 08:25:29 PM
It still seems it may work
Guys.. try to  replicate it :D

IS THIS FAKE ????????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0oUaPZ_wF8
is this fake? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rySqz7Hgpkk
edit: thread about above video clip is here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7988.0


No no replicate this one from 1965, more fun!  ;D

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=1869 (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=1869)

the snogometer... LOL. good stuff!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 19, 2010, 09:04:24 PM
GoldenMean Quote
Hmm... I don't know who sterlina is so that joke went far over my head.   
----------------
Sterlinga made the movie[Copy] at the forum opening,He's from Peswiki ,he's chewin on his boot[foot in mouth]right now!!
Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 19, 2010, 09:56:11 PM
This idea was discussed extensively months ago in this forum. I wish someone could dig out the thread. It is wonderful that someone put it in flesh and blood. Good craftsmanship indeed.

As many of you know I have already proved conclusively that CoE can be violated and that energy (unfortunately only portions of energy so far) can be obtained "out of nothing" so it is out of the question to doubt that such device can be made. The problem (a purely engineering problem) is to make a device which produces energy "out of nothing" continuously and the present contraption looks like a very plausible device to achieve that. It would be great if the constrictor can share more details so that some of us can replicate it (his admission of deliberately faking it notwithstanding). I am more than willing to do so even if it in the end turns out to be a non-working construction. I'll do that to gain even more experience than the experience I've acquired so far in this area. Gaining experience is important in shortening the time until a working device comes about. Just talking about it and reading unsolicited "advice" by naysayers, especially from some proven scammers who have dragged the whole forum in their fiasco makes no sense.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 19, 2010, 10:06:06 PM
I replied to Sterling a couple of days ago with my opinion:

***********
About time we had another PMM claim. But as usual a shame no detailed information coming forward.
Looking at the video it seems we have the usual V-Track that has been tried before on rotors, like the German Motor. I should think these are magnets, as if just steel bar, I would not see the advantage of using the V-Shape?
 
If they are neodymium's then they do not seem to have the usual shiny coating, but the ends of the rods look more like Alnico magnets?
 
Inside the rotor we can see what looks like a brass counter weight, but we cannot see what is behind the center of the rotor. We could have a battery and a coil hidden in there which gets trigger via the top or bottom external magnet.
 
There seems to many places to hide power source such as the wooden uprights.
If those are magnets on the rotor and the top bar is also a magnet I would expect some vertical movement of the top bar as the magnet fly past it, even if spring loaded.
 
Got a busy weekend a head, but may adapt the V-Rotor I have from the German replication, but not going to the expense and bother to make a exact replication.
If those are 10mm * 10mm neo rods then you are talking about 50 of them on a 6 inch rotor.

Cheers
 
Sean.
**************

Glad the guy came clean before this weekend, as busy with other stuff :)

But his excuse of having a coil in his shirt is bull****

More like a coil inside the internal rotor if anywhere and the bottom magnet pulsing a reed switch.

Clever stuff though and nice bit of work.

Maybe we should have a fake competition and see who can produce the best !

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 19, 2010, 10:16:20 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I think the guy might as well be pulling our leg, as it were, by "admitting" it's fake. Reverse psychology of sorts. There's more to it, I guess. On the other hand, I'm with you. I need exact dimensions and the stencil of the cam in order to consider replicating it although, like I said, with full understanding that it may not work in the end. As several friends here already posted, I too want to see in person the device and how the guy is actually faking it's motion.  
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 19, 2010, 10:35:23 PM
you will see that the rpm is fairly erratic throughout
.99
In all those Tesla-like experiments where sparking is involved, according to the human reasoning the spark should take the closest path, and such path is straight line. In fact it does not look straight: still on its path there are some ions which make the path very erratic.
In this experiment we cannot argue that something cannot work only because its movement is erratic because we see that on video. Heavier flywheel will make it more smooth.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 19, 2010, 10:52:41 PM
@CLaNZeR,
I think the guy might as well be pulling our leg,  ...
Here is a guy who looks more sociable: http://www.callowayengines.com/index.htm
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 19, 2010, 10:58:02 PM
@CLaNZeR,

I think the guy might as well be pulling our leg, as it were, by "admitting" it's fake. Reverse psychology of sorts. There's more to it, I guess. On the other hand, I'm with you. I need exact dimensions and the stencil of the cam in order to consider replicating it although, like I said, with full understanding that it may not work in the end. As several friends here already posted, I too want to see in person the device and how the guy is actually faking it's motion. 

Hey Omni

Hope things are good that end.

Yep this is a bit weird that he has came out with The thing up his shirt sleeve metaphor.

I have received a few emails pointing to there is more behind this, but at the moment I am keeping grounded and open minded, but 90% it is a fake and not worth the effort going much further.
In saying that if I am bored oneday, then maybe LOL :)

Got to try keep it fun as usual !

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on November 20, 2010, 05:47:22 AM
hi everyone

it is easy for a person to back out easily especially if he is threaten.

for me it is not sin to try and see the truth.  ;)

i don't consider it as a waste of time, cause if we succeed then writing here is even more wasting time.  ;D

p.s. i believe more on legitimate.  ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 20, 2010, 10:28:27 AM

really?
Thank you for correcting me.
I never was good in symantics. In fact,  I came to conclusions  similar to yours, after reading it again; but, taking under consideration your ability to jump to conclusions, based merely on theoretical reasoning against experimenting, shown in this thread, I concluded you eventually can be  ignorant enough to oversee  my errors. Sorry, I underestimated you.

There are some definitions about the difference between engine and motor. To me this one is most convincing, not yours, sorry:

"If you look at definitions, there is actually no difference. However, most people associate an engine with something that produces power within, while a motor is something that requires outside energy such as electricity."

Read more: What's the difference between an engine and a motor? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/5431#ixzz15oasFwbb


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 20, 2010, 01:10:44 PM
Qwert
So this is what you're man calloway has to say,
Quote:

Nobody seems to believe anything. The V Track motor will work by lifting the stator magnet above the sticky spot using a cam mechanism. But the lever on the bottom plate raises a magnet by the same cam to assist in pulling at the start of the V magnets on the rotor wheel. It is a complete attraction design. This gives the rotor wheel enough speed and power to overcome lifting the stator magnet. See the video here. This same principle can be applied to a PFI application. I have talked about this extensively on this website. There is even more advances to this design by using up to 4 stator magnets to help get through the sticky spot.

And this is the link he posts in the above text

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus&feature=player_embedded

Chet  PS
Contact has been made
I removed the # from this post [if you need it you can get it in the link]

PS
THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION"WTH??"!!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 20, 2010, 02:37:21 PM
Just a little visualization help.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 20, 2010, 02:39:10 PM
Continuation.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on November 20, 2010, 05:14:47 PM
Suppose this device actually works. What does anyone even know about replicating it? Everyone already knows that a normal "V" gate device increases in attraction as it approaches the end of the track, and for the same reason takes more energy to overcome the attraction, so it will not work.

So now if it does work, then how? Is it a "v" gate working in repel? (also does not work)
Are the rotor magnets even magnets or are they steel?
If they are magnets, what are the polarities?
Which direction are the poles on the stator magnet?
On the ends like a normal "V" gate?
It looks to be a flat thin magnet which usually have the poles on the large faces.
Or is it a flat magnet with the poles on the edges?
Is it even a magnet or a steel stator bar?

I'm thinking replication is not so straight forward, especially in view of the fact that everyone already knows the normal "V" gate configuration does not work.



Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: wings on November 20, 2010, 05:26:20 PM
Qwert
So this is what you're man calloway has to say,
Quote:

It is a complete attraction design.

IMO the small magnet down on the lever is in repulsion mode to the rotor (cannot stay there close to the other, down only by weight) , the larger on the top also repulsion to the rotor.
On the rotor all on the one side north up and other south up (in attraction on the the other side).

otherwise the wheel rotate in the other way
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 20, 2010, 07:21:36 PM
Well
Stephan should call this man!
I just hung up the phone with "Rob"[not roberto]
From the above posted #
And he is a swell guy!!,a gentlemen!!

Some brief info on Robs config[the green Mr. hand one]

One side of the V is all "N"
One side is all"S"
He told me the Mag at the top of Roberto's is attraction
And also at the bottom[attraction]

He has NO PLANS to sell, has no intentions of selling any!
He's building one with the drum STATIONARY and four
bar mags on the INSIDE of the drum that spin inside the stationary  drum,
He said his is different than the guys in Germany [didn't push that ,I'll let Stephan ask].
He said I could call back when I have more questions regaurding replication [that is Stephans call too]

He says it Works as shown!!

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: xee2 on November 20, 2010, 07:53:55 PM
@ ramset


If you talk to him again, please ask how long it has run continuously. I assume it will run forever, but what is the longest he has run a test for?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 20, 2010, 09:04:43 PM
@All,

Just spoke with Rob too. Basically he told me the same things as he told @ramset. One leg of the V is N, the other leg is S. The magnet on top is magnetized through the length. Same is the mag at the bottom but shorter. The drum of the rotor need not be made of metal, can be plastic but has to be light. Positioning of the elements (mags) of the V can have some discrepancies as seen in the video. The arrangement need not be perfect. All in all there are no special requirements and can be made with less effort than initially thought, save for the form of the cam, especially crucial for the timing. The principle resembles very much that of Walter Torbay's motor we discussed at length here in this forum couple of years ago. Also, turns out, Rob is the guy who proposed the design in question some months ago that was discussed here in this forum, as I already mentioned. Now, the guy who posted the video just took the design and made a real working device. Rob said he doesn't know who that guy is and where he's from and that he (Rob) also used to have an actual working model but didn't feel the need to go public with it. He says this contraption does work. That's in a few words the conversation. If there's anything more I'll drop another line. Let me add also that I too find Rob to be a very fine man, open and forthcoming.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 20, 2010, 09:27:30 PM
Omni,
Thanks,This ball is in your court now ,much more capable hands then myself.
I will not make anymore calls to Rob [unless absolutely necessary]


Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 20, 2010, 09:36:36 PM
Sorry if a bit lost on this one guys.

So this Rob you have been talking to on the phone, is Roobert33 who posted the video?

Cheers

Sean.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mscoffman on November 20, 2010, 09:37:19 PM

This idea was discussed extensively months ago in this forum. I wish someone could
dig out the thread. It is wonderful that someone put it in flesh and blood. Good craftsmanship indeed.
...


@Omnibus;

One of them at least is here Web Link;

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8398.0

the other Web Link;

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8867.0

---

@All

Even if this doesn't work at first...there is good chance it could be made to
work by cutting the momentum energy required to move the top bar in half.
Beside friction, it's the only real load on the rotation.

I previously said;

a) You can cut the energy required to move the top
piece in half by having two *synchronized* wheels
of opposite polarity running some distance away
from one another. When one wheel shoves the N
pole of the top piece away from it's sticky spot
it also shoves the S pole of the top piece into place
on the other synchronized wheel. The wheels each
makes one power turn, then cams the magnet away,
then one turn idling. That should do it.

It would be a good application for one of those low friction
"banded bearing" mechanisms.

The little flippy magnet at the bottom probably acts as a
gravity based damper against the cam actuation.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 21, 2010, 12:30:53 AM
Sorry if a bit lost on this one guys.

So this Rob you have been talking to on the phone, is Roobert33 who posted the video?

Cheers

Sean.
i'm a bit lost on this one too sean, but for a different reason. i was under the impression that markdansie was roobert33 because of this post:
Hi Bill,
I sent the video out to many of my friends around the world including Sterling. It was part of 101 sceptics. Everyone passed with flying colours
Except Sterling...you got to love the guy.
mark

but i'm pretty sure the guy chet and omni talked to is not roobert33.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 21, 2010, 12:31:30 AM
There is another replication here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLwEs0iu7U&feature=related

Update:
I went to the link on the clip and found this:

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 21, 2010, 08:45:57 AM
@CLaNZeR,

The guy I spoke to was not @Robert33. He was the person who answered the phone when I called the number @ramset gave. No connection with @Robert33 whatsoever.

@nievesoliveras,

You certainly noticed the person from the link (some Jason George) says that perpetual motion is "clearly not possible" and the pictured device will not work "when analyzed". Where's the analysis, though? Rob, the person I spoke to yesterday, for one, insists it works when actually built. He said he had one working and that wasn't with much effort or precision.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 21, 2010, 11:28:00 AM
I am neutral on this one.
The only problem we have had with this self running devices is that we spend a lot of money just to see if it work.

The great thing would be if someone has the materials already and can test if it works without having a great loss of funds.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 21, 2010, 12:39:08 PM
Just some observations..
In the Jason George design,  the cam is attached to outside of the wheel giving it little leverage.  Thus no way for it to work because too little leverage is provided.

In the Robert33 design the cam looks to have more leverage to lift the stator because it is attached to the shaft in the center of the rotor.   This design looks to provide much more leverage.   

I think any replications need to consider that the cam leverage may be the key to this working.
Any thoughts on this?

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 21, 2010, 09:46:12 PM
Had a bit of spare time this afternoon, so decided to try out a V-Track idea.

It has worked out pretty well and the idea was to have a V-Track that could be used flat for certain experiments and also be wrapped around a rotor or couple of end caps.

I had a few 10x10mm magnets spare, but more coming in for next weekend, where I will also mill the endcaps as well.

Some quick photos attached.


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 21, 2010, 09:55:37 PM
@CLaNZeR,

This a good idea. Have you made these yourself or these are some available pieces adopted for the purpose? Wonder if you can drill the appropriate beds for the magnets directly on a plastic drum with your CNC or you need a 5-axis CNC?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 21, 2010, 10:04:35 PM
@CLaNZeR,

This a good idea. Have you made these yourself or these are some available pieces adopted for the purpose? Wonder if you can drill the appropriate beds for the magnets directly on a plastic drum with your CNC or you need a 5-axis CNC?

Hi Omni

I cut this out myself today on my CNC machine to try out the idea.

Much quicker than cutting out a drum as such.

I have cut drums before for some of the E-Orbo designs and also the German motor.
http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?t=185

I am setting the turntable by hand for each degree spacing, but never got around to putting a stepper on it and automating it.


I thought the nice thing about having a flexible track is that you can detach it from the rotor end caps and use it for HJ track experiments etc etc

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mscoffman on November 21, 2010, 10:28:29 PM
@All

Take two carbon-composite bicycle rear wheels ex-tires, but with their
sprockets and mount them on a frame so that they are in-line and about
two inches apart at the narrowest. Now make the magnet V-gates on
one wheel and the magnet bars on the other. Make a chain connection
so they turn the same direction to stay synchronized. Drop the bars out
at the critical spot and remove them from the 180degree spot for balance
as well.

One may need to replace the bicycle chain with a less stiff ball chain. How
could something like that not work, if there is a constant acceleration force
vector over most of the wheel??? What am I missing?

:S:MarkCoffman
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 21, 2010, 10:48:43 PM
It would be great if someone could make a drawing (preferably a dxf file) of the drum with the exact beds for the magnets so that I can bring it to a machinist tomorrow. In the past our own Jason (@Jdo300) liked to do that but I don't know if he's reading this thread. As for the magnets, I'm gonna go tomorrow to the company that sells them and pick them up from there. It's near the place where the machinist is. Unbelievable, isn't it? I mentioned in the other theread that here in Sofia, Bulgaria it appears to be a hundred times easier to do work than in New York (not to mention the prices). Like I said, unfortunately I'll have to be back in the US at the beginning of December so will have to figure out the best strategy regarding this replication.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 21, 2010, 10:58:55 PM
It would be great if someone could make a drawing (preferably a dxf file) of the drum with the exact beds for the magnets so that I can bring it to a machinist tomorrow.

Took me a while to get the spacing and degrees correct for the length of drum I am working on.

As usual I try to stick as close as I can to 100mm rotor, but in the video it looks more like 150mm.

So by the time I plotted out the V-Track to suit 10mm magnets, the rotor comes out at 89mm diameter inside and 95mm on the outside.

I am thinking of reversing the artwork as such and making a mould for this V-Track. Would simply then mean pouring liquid rubber into the mould to produce one.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 21, 2010, 11:12:28 PM
I guess @Roobert33 has just glued the magnets onto the cylindrical surface and that's all. Rob (not @Roobert33) emphasized the cup where the magnets are stuck to should be light although made out of whatever material, not necessarily metal (copper) as in the vid. Wouldn't it be better to have a cylinder, not a hollow cup, however, to have a flywheel effect?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: woopy on November 21, 2010, 11:52:11 PM
whoww Sean as usual very nice job

For my small contribution , i am playing with my drum (now with 3 layers of magnets to increase the power.

Until now i have no chance to overcome the cam in my config.(but very near)

But after trying everything,  i think that  it could be an opportunity by using a short and sharp cam as per the original (Roobert33) design. So with a config in Attraction on the the nearing of the gate i can get a very strong acceleration and simultaneously a strong and short attraction. So i think that Robert use also the push of the attracted magnet on the rear side of the cam to propel the rotor.

And also the bottom part is surely absolutely necessary. (not tried yet)

On the pix it is some of my testing apparatus. All is mounted with ball bearing. But i have to improve the design   ough a good working day !! but very good fun ;D

Anyway working or not working it is amazing that those Vgate works with every material ,magnetic or non magnetic stators ,small bars or long bars magnets outside or inside the drum etc etc.. very interesting to learn how magnets work, And perhaps with better building....?

Good night at all

Laurent
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 22, 2010, 12:04:27 AM
@woopy,

Nicely done. Indeed, it appears you have to work more on the cam. Good luck.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 22, 2010, 12:08:17 AM

On the pix it is some of my testing apparatus. All is mounted with ball bearing. But i have to improve the design   ough a good working day !! but very good fun ;D


Hi Laurent

What a cool replication you have done mate, well done.

Aligning those magnets must of been a nightmare and taken ages while you taped over them.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 22, 2010, 12:16:21 AM
It seems that everybody is busy replicating this one!
Nice work guys.
Maybe it will work.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 22, 2010, 08:57:51 AM
@CLaNZeR,

I think @woopy's observation is interesting -- the elements need not be magnets (save the stator bars on top and at the bottom) despite what Rob told me. Besides, go figure how to fix repelling magnets the way they're shown in the vid. Also, I haven't seen lathed surfaces of neos such as those in the pics. Seems like these are small iron cylinders glued spirally onto the outer surface of a thin-walled copper tube. When made that's attached to a copper bottom fixed to the axis. The "bearings" seem to be just holes in the wooden pillars where the axis is resting.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: exnihiloest on November 22, 2010, 10:31:53 AM
Quote
There is another replication here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLwEs0iu7U&feature=related

Update:
I went to the link on the clip and found this:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10034.0;attach=48991

It is obvious it doesn't work, question of magnetic potential.
Here is an equivalent reasoning with the gravitational potential: the principle of the device is the same as to let a bowl roll down a slow downslope and when it is at the bottom, to expect it will climb a short but hard steep to the same height. Of course it fails.
The rotor here is increasingly attracted to the top horizontal magnet (1 # downslope) and then must fight the "sticky point" (2 # hard steep). As the cause of the movement is a magnetic potential difference and the work which has to be done is independent of the path (W=dU), the work for step 1 is equal to the work for step 2.
In other words, when we consider a full turn, as there is no magnetic potential difference between the start point and the end point because they are the same, then there is no cause for the rotor to rotate. It can rotate only less than 1 turn.
Additional improvements such systems to move the fixed magnet at a particular moment for avoiding the sticky point are also useless because based on the same principle of potential difference, which implies energy conservation in any way.
All permanent magnet motors based on this principle are thus flawed. And I don't hear about other types   :(


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 22, 2010, 12:26:59 PM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10034.0;attach=48991

It is obvious it doesn't work, question of magnetic potential.
Here is an equivalent reasoning with the gravitational potential: the principle of the device is the same as to let a bowl roll down a slow downslope and when it is at the bottom, to expect it will climb a short but hard steep to the same height. Of course it fails.
The rotor here is increasingly attracted to the top horizontal magnet (1 # downslope) and then must fight the "sticky point" (2 # hard steep). As the cause of the movement is a magnetic potential difference and the work which has to be done is independent of the path (W=dU), the work for step 1 is equal to the work for step 2.
In other words, when we consider a full turn, as there is no magnetic potential difference between the start point and the end point because they are the same, then there is no cause for the rotor to rotate. It can rotate only less than 1 turn.
Additional improvements such systems to move the fixed magnet at a particular moment for avoiding the sticky point are also useless because based on the same principle of potential difference, which implies energy conservation in any way.
All permanent magnet motors based on this principle are thus flawed. And I don't hear about other types   :(

Usless blabber. The device under discussion in this thread may not work but not because of the above reasons.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 22, 2010, 04:51:57 PM
Searching the right spot for the pulse to be, this maybe can solve the sticky spot problem.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 22, 2010, 05:43:24 PM
Jesus ,
You add a new dimension,
NICE!!

Wouldn't it be interesting to make this A "Rubiks cube"
For Overunity ?
This idea gets us SOooo... close [the original concept]perhaps all the way?

But there are Many ideas that can be tried ,Quite easily!

Perhaps a good "Bored" game to play with the kiddypoos?

Thanks
Chet

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: truesearch on November 22, 2010, 06:04:09 PM
@nievesoliveras

Your "electro-magnet-to-get-past-sticky-point" concept reminds me of this motor concept: http://www.japaninc.com/article.php?articleID=1303

The magnet placement is different however.

Truesearch
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 22, 2010, 07:26:12 PM
@nievesoliveras,

Very interesting idea. Are you going to try it any time soon?

@truesearch,

Do you know if there's a working Minato motor that can be witnessed or maybe purchased?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: billmehess on November 22, 2010, 07:42:53 PM
You will find that the energy generated and stored in the cap.  will not be enough to pulse the
rotor thru the sticky spot.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: truesearch on November 22, 2010, 07:45:24 PM
@Omnibus,

I'm not aware of any "working" models available. I had stumbled onto their site earlier and remembered the use of electro-magnets to get passed the "sticky-point".

Truesearch
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 22, 2010, 09:03:17 PM
You will find that the energy generated and stored in the cap.  will not be enough to pulse the
rotor thru the sticky spot.

That's the usual understanding. However, have you tried it experimentally yourself or that's just a guess? Sometimes new effects are discovered, you know. Look at what Steorn have done in this respect. Very impressive indeed.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 22, 2010, 09:30:09 PM
Thank you everybody!

I am not building it right now, but it is in my long to do list.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: billmehess on November 22, 2010, 09:41:09 PM
Hi Omni

Yes I have built quite a number of magnetic motors. The problem with them is that they have very lttle torque in their first ( and subsequent revolutions) At the most in a cap, and I usually use a 4900mf cap. you will see usually  well under 100mv generated and stored in the cap. As we all know you have only the first revolution to be able to provide the necessary work to get past the sticky spot.
Any type of  pulse system will require a lot more stored energy than that to push the rotor past the sticky spot. Also employing a cam system will not work. I have tried many of these. Again when the
stator hits the cam it will cog the system. These cad programs always show them operating so smothly but in reality this is not the case.
I believe a magnetic motor is only possible when viewed as a hybrid system. Where there is some kind of external input that will cause the rotor to "jump". This with multiple revolutions "maybe" might be able to store enough energy in a cap system to in effect rewind the system.
I am sure you remember when I was working with the 30 day wind up clock mechinism. I have taken
the clock motor which will run for 30 day or 43200 minutes. With the pendulum holding a 2" in diameter N-45 magnet it will give me the necessary in and out swing to act on a rotor assembly.
I have been able to get more than one revolution numerous times but so far not more than 1.75 complete revoltions. The timing must be exact so that the stator magnet moves in just at the right time to engage the rotor magnet array. If this can be accomplished then this unit would have a very long time to store energy in a cap. array. Enough to rewind the clock mech. mayvbe? I don't know yet.
Manually the clock mech. takes 12 seconds to rewind. So would it be worth it to store 43,200 min. of generated energy with only having to manually rewind it . I don't know that either. I'll keep playing around and see what developes.
Any one actually trying to build a magnetic motor will see the reasons why it will not work on it's own.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: JoinTheFun on November 22, 2010, 09:57:21 PM
But what if you now enhance the cap filling by using exciter/joule thief/captret techniques? Maybe then the cap will have enough to get past the sticky point.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: billmehess on November 22, 2010, 10:04:53 PM
But what if you now enhance the cap filling by using exciter/joule thief/captret techniques? Maybe then the cap will have enough to get past the sticky point.
Again if you will build one of these motors you will see what it will take to push the rotor past the sticky point. In under one revolution there is not enough speed or torque to generate but a very small amount of energy. A pulse motor will employ a electromagnet. The generated energy will
barely engage the eletromagnet. Not enough to do anything.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 22, 2010, 10:19:44 PM
Bill:

I agree totally with everything you have said thus far.  In looking at Jesus's design, why not think about using a supercap...something with a lot more boost to it?

Of course you are right in that the first 90% rotation will not be enough to charge much of anything BUT, who cares?  If the rotor was similar to one of my Bedini motors that used a vcr head complete to get a really nice flywheel effect, and one were to really give it a good initial spin (input energy) that might be enough to juice the supercap just enough to apply small pules perfectly timed to keep the system going, maybe not forever but possibly quite a long time.

I don't know.  I was not surprised when this designer came out and said it was a fake, but as mentioned if we can use our knowledge of pulse motors and JT circuits and supercaps, we might, just might have something new.

Jesus:

Very good thinking over there.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 22, 2010, 10:32:45 PM
Hi Omni

Yes I have built quite a number of magnetic motors. The problem with them is that they have very lttle torque in their first ( and subsequent revolutions) At the most in a cap, and I usually use a 4900mf cap. you will see usually  well under 100mv generated and stored in the cap. As we all know you have only the first revolution to be able to provide the necessary work to get past the sticky spot.
Any type of  pulse system will require a lot more stored energy than that to push the rotor past the sticky spot. Also employing a cam system will not work. I have tried many of these. Again when the
stator hits the cam it will cog the system. These cad programs always show them operating so smothly but in reality this is not the case.
I believe a magnetic motor is only possible when viewed as a hybrid system. Where there is some kind of external input that will cause the rotor to "jump". This with multiple revolutions "maybe" might be able to store enough energy in a cap system to in effect rewind the system.
I am sure you remember when I was working with the 30 day wind up clock mechinism. I have taken
the clock motor which will run for 30 day or 43200 minutes. With the pendulum holding a 2" in diameter N-45 magnet it will give me the necessary in and out swing to act on a rotor assembly.
I have been able to get more than one revolution numerous times but so far not more than 1.75 complete revoltions. The timing must be exact so that the stator magnet moves in just at the right time to engage the rotor magnet array. If this can be accomplished then this unit would have a very long time to store energy in a cap. array. Enough to rewind the clock mech. mayvbe? I don't know yet.
Manually the clock mech. takes 12 seconds to rewind. So would it be worth it to store 43,200 min. of generated energy with only having to manually rewind it . I don't know that either. I'll keep playing around and see what developes.
Any one actually trying to build a magnetic motor will see the reasons why it will not work on it's own.

I see. This has to be studied more carefully, though. Remember Paul Sprain's motor? Too bad he had to remove all the vids and references after the advice of his lawyers. Indeed, it wasn't self-sustaining but had a great potential in that respect. Don't know what happened further with it, unfortunately.

As for these motors with the positive feedback such as the one at hand as well as Torbay's and maybe @xpenzif's there's no clear theoretical grounds to judge one way or the other because works of different character are being done and, as is known already, at certain conditions violation of CoE can occur. In the current case it very well may be that the magnetic potential energy at the start is less than the overall energy at the minimum where the cam kicks in and that may be enough to lift the lever and prepare the system for a new beginning. That was the principle of Torbay's motor which I still think is a viable, although very difficult to tune up, construction. The current one seems less complicated in this respect (who knows?). One lesson learned from Torbay motor is that one shouldn't use those super strong neos. Notice how delicate this system is -- not only using iron pieces rather than neos but the drum itself is light and delicate. Wonder where I can find such a cup. I'm getting tomorrow the 64 iron pieces from the machinist and am gonna ask him to make a 100mm dia solid drum of 60mm height made of plastic. This is what I'm gonna start with despite what I said about the device being delicate. Just to try and see what the flywheel effect will be (and also because at present I don't have a thin-walled copper drum). Also, I couldn't find the magnet with the rectangular shape used as stator on top. Instead I'll use four cylindrical magnets of 15mm length and 2mm diameter magnetized through the length. Will let you know how it progresses until I'm here in Europe. If I can't finish it will have to repeat the whole thing all over again in the states because I don't want to carry with me suspicious pieces of something through all kinds of airports.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: billmehess on November 22, 2010, 11:11:18 PM
Bill:

I agree totally with everything you have said thus far.  In looking at Jesus's design, why not think about using a supercap...something with a lot more boost to it?

Of course you are right in that the first 90% rotation will not be enough to charge much of anything BUT, who cares?  If the rotor was similar to one of my Bedini motors that used a vcr head complete to get a really nice flywheel effect, and one were to really give it a good initial spin (input energy) that might be enough to juice the supercap just enough to apply small pusles perfectly timed to keep the system going, maybe not forever but possibly quite a long time.

I don't know.  I was not surprised when this designer came out and said it was a fake, but as mentioned if we can use our knowledge of pulse motors and JT circuits and supercaps, we might, just might have something new.

Jesus:

Very good thinking over there.

Bill
Sorry but a super cap will absolutely not work. It would be impossible ( I hate that word) to generate enough energy to charge a cap let alone a super cap to do anything in one revolution or should I day in less than one revolution.
Hi Omni
Regarding Paul Sprains device it was predicated to work by having a electromagnet pulsing the rotor thru the sticky spot. Again with less than one revolution not enough energy can be generated to do this. To increase somehow the torque to generate more energy in a cap system on ly increase the strength of the sticky spot. At this point its a mystery.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: woopy on November 23, 2010, 12:49:03 AM
my 2 more cents


laurent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAUHrVyKJ1k
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 23, 2010, 12:52:18 AM
Laurent
This link isn't going through

laurenthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAUHrVyKJ1k

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 23, 2010, 12:55:45 AM
One more observation about the cam.... it appears that it may make the rotor overbalanced.   I wonder how much counter weight is needed with the bolt in the inside of the wheel of Robert33's design?  At first I just considered the extra weight of the magnets/slugs or what every material on the opposite side of the wheel.  Now I think consideration must be given to whether the wheel must be balanced or overbalanced to work. 

Do you think replications should also be able to adjust the amount of balance weight?
Notice photo from before.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10034.0;attach=48961
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: woopy on November 23, 2010, 12:57:18 AM
ok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAUHrVyKJ1k

must be better so

good luck at all

laurent


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 23, 2010, 01:09:27 AM
Thank you @pirate!

I have been blowing transistors and damaging electronic parts trying to get a self runner.

But I had a small victory yesterday when I made to work an aluminum can made hobo stove with alcohol as fuel.
It has been my first victory for a long time.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 23, 2010, 01:57:19 AM
Just an interesting photo of my balloint pen.   The end looks similar to the magnets...

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on November 23, 2010, 04:56:06 AM
Thank you Laurent, for the video of your tests with different materials. It was pretty interesting how some magnets needed very little displacement from the gate to jump it.

Now if we could just replace "Mr Hand" with "Mr Robot".
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 23, 2010, 02:35:57 PM
Sean,
Can you make a Quick summary of the things that Don't work with a Vgate?

I noticed you had a 2 gate track[flat] where you passed thru the 1st gate to another V ? could these be put at 45's around a long tube??

can the gate be burried? drawn down at the end [the slugs inside Rob33's wheel] diminished somehow?
Tuned out of attraction at the end??

The flat track can have many gates and excellerate ?
Just don't close them??[loop]

And a cnc question?
Can you build an erecter set out of your new machined design [the flat one your going to use for a mold]

Where the whole thing can have tongued/grooved [ ball joints]
slots and grooves for in out [V angles]

Different Magplug sizes [press in mags?]

A quick change chassis for experiments?

I'll buy one!!

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Poit on November 23, 2010, 03:01:25 PM
Just an interesting photo of my balloint pen.   The end looks similar to the magnets...

Bill

Thats an awesome looking pen!!!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 23, 2010, 03:19:36 PM
Sorry but a super cap will absolutely not work. It would be impossible ( I hate that word) to generate enough energy to charge a cap let alone a super cap to do anything in one revolution or should I day in less than one revolution.
Hi Omni
Regarding Paul Sprains device it was predicated to work by having a electromagnet pulsing the rotor thru the sticky spot. Again with less than one revolution not enough energy can be generated to do this. To increase somehow the torque to generate more energy in a cap system on ly increase the strength of the sticky spot. At this point its a mystery.

You missed my point.  I did not say 1 revolution but maybe thousands initially.  Now the supercap has real power and some good, well timed powerful pulses just may do something in Jesus's design.  Super caps charge up very, very fast and can store a lot of power...relatively speaking. 

I can spin my Bedini motor up with one flick of my wrist and it will turn many, many thousands of time with that initial impulse.

Just a thought, I am not saying this will work any better, or at all.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: billmehess on November 23, 2010, 05:20:12 PM
You missed my point.  I did not say 1 revolution but maybe thousands initially.  Now the supercap has real power and some good, well timed powerful pulses just may do something in Jesus's design.  Super caps charge up very, very fast and can store a lot of power...relatively speaking. 

I can spin my Bedini motor up with one flick of my wrist and it will turn many, many thousands of time with that initial impulse.

Just a thought, I am not saying this will work any better, or at all.


Bill
If you have a device that will spin 1000's of time of course a super cap would store a lot of energy. I was talking specificialy about a magnetic motor configuration where so far there has been not a single completed  revolution. Your work with earth batteries is great!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 23, 2010, 06:33:47 PM
@woopy

Thank you for taking the time to show us the different metals on the vgate.
I mean how it reacts to them.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 23, 2010, 11:16:05 PM
Thats an awesome looking pen!!!

@ Poit,   the pen is really just a cheap pen with a metal looking clicker on the end.   Not only does it look like a metal but these plastic coated ends could fool one into thinking it was a magnet.   It could be a way to make an inexpensive fake.   The pen clicker tops would only cost a fraction of real magnets.  My question is what else would be required to make this an inexpensive and real looking/working desktop top toy?  Even if this really does not work,  replication attemps may still be worth building to have a cool desktop demonstration toy.  So even if one thinks this may be fake, it may really encourage some replication attempts.  Who knows,  maybe even discover something that can work.  I may even give it a try with the limited materials that I have from other experiments.   
     
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 24, 2010, 12:00:35 AM
@All,

Here's an update of my replication attempt.  I had the 64 cylinders made by the machinist as well as a drum of 80mm dia and 60mm height. I assembled the whole thing and the result was that it won't budge. The device has to be made really light and the shown construction of the drum with the spirally placed iron cylinders may not be the best setup. I won't show a pic or a vid of it because it is trivial. A year ago I was carrying out experiments which I haven't shown in this or other forums which used much different rendition of the same attraction idea. I had the rotor make almost full turn (up to the sticky spot) but I didn't continue by adding a cam. I think these experiments should be resurrected as more promising than the design at hand. In the discussed case it is obvious @Roobert has found conditions for the device to work and a successful replication would only depend on his good will to share his findings. Otherwise, it would be much simpler to further the research by going back to the design I mentioned above (I'll show it in due time). There's nothing fancy, innovative or exceptional about these feedback type designs. The devil is in finding the right conditions and the right balance of forces which will allow for the perpetuum mobile effect to show itself. It's a pretty painful and time consuming process but those of us who are really interested in this
question have to persevere.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on November 24, 2010, 12:03:43 AM
Hi all.....Ihave been try to get that wheel to spin for over the past ten years,.......gravity and magnetic attraction,......I think you have to add dimension to the mix......magnetism and gravity seem to be equal in force.....instead of a flat plane work with a sphere....I built a spherical rotor..it had 8 poles 4n  4s,....the poles went all around it with = strength.........if you place opposing magnets all around the outside,....slightly offset.............maybe rotation?......just a thought........shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 24, 2010, 12:37:15 AM
This may be a good rotor for me to try.   It is 97mm dia by 50mm wide.
I wonder if thumb tacs would make a good attracting V-gate effect?

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 24, 2010, 03:25:11 AM
This is another way to overcome the sticky spot.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 24, 2010, 07:49:55 AM
@nievesoliveras,

Have you actually tried this?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 24, 2010, 12:43:03 PM
I have not the means to try it.
But my recomendation is to put each sticky spot at 120 degrees around the rotor.

Doing that, there always be two v gates working against one sticky spot.
If I had the means to do it I would. Why not. It seems promising.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 24, 2010, 12:54:56 PM
I have not the means to try it.
But my recomendation is to put each sticky spot at 120 degrees around the rotor.

Doing that, there always be two v gates working against one sticky spot.
If I had the means to do it I would. Why not. It seems promising.

Jesus

Jesus,  If you use only one bar magnet with N at one end and S at the other end... I would think you would have a problem with V gates being designed with one leg N and the other S.   You may need 3 individual bar magnets for your design to work.   Am I missing something?

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 24, 2010, 01:08:45 PM
@maw2432

You are right! The schematic was drawn incomplete just to show the idea of the 120 degrees of the sticky spot placement.
I thought that it was understood that each section of the rotor has its own bar magnet on the same rail.
The width of the bar should cover just the portion of v gate it is actuating on. But all in the same rail in order for the two against one to work.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 24, 2010, 06:21:09 PM
Jesus:

I do not know if that will work or not but it sure is a new approach to the sticky spot problem.  By working 2 against 1 it might have a chance.  Again, great thinking on your part.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 24, 2010, 07:14:32 PM
If you got one V gate, with its sticky spot, - you know the V-gate we all know doesn't work, and take this V-gate and connect together with two more V-gates that doesn't work either. Let us now connect them together with a common shaft, and align them 120 degrees apart. Is it any reason why they now suddenly should work?

I cannot see the logic in this...

You will never avoid the sticky spot. You even it out, but you also add more and more sticky spots as the number of V-gates increase, doesn't you? Each sticky spot must account for itself. 100 V-gates = 100 sticky spots. 100 / 100 = 1, which means each sticky spot must account for its own sticky spot.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 24, 2010, 10:04:53 PM
If you got one V gate, with its sticky spot, - you know the V-gate we all know doesn't work,
Consider: sticky spot is associated with attracted configuration. In fact, there is no sticky spot when magnets repel; this kind of configuration is easier to manage, though attracted one is more powerful.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: billmehess on November 24, 2010, 10:05:49 PM
If you got one V gate, with its sticky spot, - you know the V-gate we all know doesn't work, and take this V-gate and connect together with two more V-gates that doesn't work either. Let us now connect them together with a common shaft, and align them 120 degrees apart. Is it any reason why they now suddenly should work?

I cannot see the logic in this...

You will never avoid the sticky spot. You even it out, but you also add more and more sticky spots as the number of V-gates increase, doesn't you? Each sticky spot must account for itself. 100 V-gates = 100 sticky spots. 100 / 100 = 1, which means each sticky spot must account for its own sticky spot.

Vidar

100% correct
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 25, 2010, 01:25:07 AM
For the negative thinkers.
I stated very clearly on the schematic that may be yours work better.

Just dont sit there and criticize my efforts. Present your solution to it.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: billmehess on November 25, 2010, 01:48:09 AM
Jesus; I sense the frustration in your post. Please do not confuse "negative thinking" with people who have built numerous motors and see why they do not work. Buy some magnets and glue them to a 8" diameter circular piece of wood. Use some simple bearing so that it will turn. Holding some magnets in your hand you will be able to cause the rotor to spin as you move the magnets (the stator magnets) back and forth. Some of us have gone way beyond this. You will see the problem.
The sticky spot and the lack of torque. Not all problems have solutions I know on this site that is cause for being burned at the stake.
But what is true is true. Keep on playing though it's great fun!
If I was made of neutrinos I would be able to walk through solid objects but since I am not I suspect I will only be able to use a door. Point being not everything is possible even if one thinks it is. I suspect I will be flamed for posting this, but...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 25, 2010, 02:05:59 AM
I will try not to post my ideas to solve something. It is just an impulse I have when I think that I have the solution.

I beg eberybody's forgiveness, I will try not to sin that way anymore.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: resonanceman on November 25, 2010, 03:51:32 AM
Searching the right spot for the pulse to be, this maybe can solve the sticky spot problem.

Jesus

Jesus

I think  you are going in the right direction with  your sticky spot pulser.
Your idea  would make the V motor very similar to a magnet motor that   has been on my to do list for a long time.

I believe it was Stephan  Hartmen that said  any magnet motor that is OU would  have to use iron .
I do not believe in such sweeping  comments.........but i think he is  right in this case.

What I am talking about is using the magnetic fluc from the  outer magnets a little more indirectly

Keep in mind  this is  just a theory..... I do not have the final geometry of the parts down yet.

For full potential  this idea would have  iron bars all around the rotor.with magnets  attached to the outside of them.
These bars would  be touching eachother so the magnetic  flux from the magnets could  flow from one bar to the next.

on the inside of ring of bars is another ring of iron bars.......in between  the 2 rings of iron bars would be thin coils.....coils  with the same  purpose  as  the coils in your idea.
These  coils would have iron cores to conduct  the magnetic  flux through the coils.

I was planning on  using a Bedini type circuit to drive the coils......although  your setup should work too.

The reason for  using the iron  is  for the chance to  switch the magnetic  flux  on and off.

WHen  the  coils  are inactive   the flux from each magnet will flow through the coil  and into the second iron  bar .......the magnets on the rotor  will then be more  attracted to the inner iron  bar.

WHen  the coils  are activated  the coil  will inhibit the  magnetic flux from  flowing to  the iron  bar directly on the other side of the coil  so that flux will transfer laterally to the bars on each side and help to attract the magnets to them.
Another little  plus of this design........because of the  iron .....when the coils are activated  the inner iron bar directly  below the coil will switch polarity ........so instead of a sticky spot........you have a low  power attraction

I think a more advanced  version of this idea would have the magnets near the ends of the bars.........then shift the magnetic polarity from outboard to inboard.


Jesus ........ what every  you do..........do not give up.

There are many people here that do little except  try to shoot down  good ideas .
To have them attack you is  probably a good sign.

gary
gary
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on November 25, 2010, 04:50:29 AM
Hi Jesus,

Do not give up on your ideas, I'm very grateful that you share them. They may or may not work the way we envision them but they do spark other ideas.

@All,

Just throwing out another idea. Have the cylindrical v-track stationary but have an outer wheel with the magnets attached that moves.

Instead of using mechanical switching to get over the gate have the v-track so it bows inwards almost like a deformed cylinder. You are essentially taking the path from the pull out that you emulate with your hand near the gate and inverting that path into the surface of the cylindrical v-track.

From Laurent's video the path would be a sharp ramp inward then straight out.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 25, 2010, 09:50:00 AM
Consider: sticky spot is associated with attracted configuration. In fact, there is no sticky spot when magnets repel; this kind of configuration is easier to manage, though attracted one is more powerful.
Yes, this is true because the magnetic material itself are attracted to the other magnet even if equal polarity are facing. However, if you base your design on a repelling machine, the torque provided by the repell are also weaker - because there are a slight attraction between repelling magnets, see? So you will end up with the same result. Take attraction mode: 2 - 2 = 0, but also repulsion mode: 1 - 1 = 0. As you see the sum of the forces will be zero no matter how you put it.

A sticky spot is a notch on the track, but a repelling spot is a peak on the track. Both are accounting for how much of the opposite forces there are on the rest of the track. The sum will always be zero. Both are the reason for eachother to be just like they are.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 25, 2010, 09:56:53 AM
For the negative thinkers.
I stated very clearly on the schematic that may be yours work better.

Just dont sit there and criticize my efforts. Present your solution to it.

Jesus
Everyone must take criticism. Both constructive, positive, and negative. Everyone must also be prepared to be questioned. That is what life is all about at the end. Nothing wrong with your efforts, but it must be allowed to question yours and everyone elses ideas. There is no better solutions than yours, because no one has ever made a working device - yet.

Continuing doing like me and many others. DO NOT STOP TRYING :)

Whish you all the best, Jesus!

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on November 25, 2010, 10:44:39 AM
Hey Jesus!


Your name JESUS The name above every name, the savior of mankind!

DON'T GIVE UP!.

Your ideas are brilliant ok!

Please share them don't imitate me ok  ;D
 
The problem is the sticky spot ok?, i think we have to review the shielding technique. to lessen the sticky one  8)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: exnihiloest on November 25, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Usless blabber. The device under discussion in this thread may not work but not because of the above reasons.

The device doesn't work because of the given reasons (work done due to a potential difference doesn't depend on the path). You should learn physics, in order to understand these reasons or to be able to give yours.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 25, 2010, 12:46:42 PM
Can't we just give up the classic V-gate motor? It will never work - at least not how people this far has done it. Maybe a new way of engineering could give the V-gate more hope?

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 25, 2010, 06:00:17 PM
The device doesn't work because of the given reasons (work done due to a potential difference doesn't depend on the path). You should learn physics, in order to understand these reasons or to be able to give yours.

Anyone who is interested in contributions in science should ignore opportunistic people such as you. It was explained more than once why despite the fact that the integral of force over a closed path is zero there can be instances where excess energy is produced. Don't waste people's time with your trivialities and try not to interfere with your gibberish in the important discussions such as this one.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 25, 2010, 06:08:07 PM
These motors are not characterized by being V-gate or anything of that sort. What really characterizes these motors is that in addition to whatever their construction might be there is also feedback. There's also another type of perpetual mobiles whereby work done along a closed path in a given conservative field is assisted by work done by a different type of a conservative field. Without such assistance on the one hand or without feedback on the other hit is impossible to construct a perpetual mobile. Indeed, anyone who tries to do the latter (that is, resorting to complicating more and more the construction using just one field without feedback) should ignore such attempts.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 25, 2010, 06:33:18 PM
It might be true that in short moments exsess energy are produced, but that energy will be consumed in the next moment somwhere else in the loop. If you try to take out that exsess energy in the right moment, there will not be energy left to complete the loop and the system stops.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 25, 2010, 06:37:39 PM
These motors are not characterized by being V-gate or anything of that sort. What really characterizes these motors is that in addition to whatever their construction might be there is also feedback. There's also another type of perpetual mobiles whereby work done along a closed path in a given conservative field is assisted by work done by a different type of a conservative field. Without such assistance on the one hand or without feedback on the other hit is impossible to construct a perpetual mobile. Indeed, anyone who tries to do the latter (that is, resorting to complicating more and more the construction using just one field without feedback) should ignore such attempts.
Is this something about two different kinds of conservative fields?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10029.msg265129#msg265129 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10029.msg265129#msg265129)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 25, 2010, 07:34:14 PM
It might be true that in short moments exsess energy are produced, but that energy will be consumed in the next moment somwhere else in the loop...
You are exactly right! That is the reason why science uses practical experiments even if theory is known. Thus in this project experiments are needed even more, since nobody here seems to know for sure how to calculate/interpret this machine's potential behavior.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2010, 07:57:40 PM
Why is this motor still being discussed when the "inventor" admitted using fakery to Stefan?

To me this is like folks trying to make Mylow's motor work.

The design is interesting but obviously flawed or fakery would not have been required to make it work.  I have built hundreds of various magnet motors, or should I say attempted to build, maybe, and hopefully there is a way to do it but I do not believe this motor is it.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 25, 2010, 08:03:52 PM
Sinning again!

New hope to stir the inventors thinking!
Just make sure the sticky spots never meet at the center.

You can also add the two magnet bars at both ends.
I mean one bar for each rotor.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 25, 2010, 09:13:47 PM
Why is this motor still being discussed when the "inventor" admitted using fakery to Stefan?

To me this is like folks trying to make Mylow's motor work.

The design is interesting but obviously flawed or fakery would not have been required to make it work.  I have built hundreds of various magnet motors, or should I say attempted to build, maybe, and hopefully there is a way to do it but I do not believe this motor is it.

Bill

I think you should've put "admitted" in quotation marks unless you really know how this can be faked with a coil in a shirt, as per @Roobert33's "admission".

I think @ has done a marvelous job. It is obvious he has put exceptional effort to find the right conditions and obviously doesn't want to have confused individuals such as some here in this thread to have anything to do with it. To find the right conditions in this instance is like chasing a black cat in a dark room. I whish I knew a systematic scientific method to determine the exact shape of the ramp and not just rely on a hunch as to what it might be. Right now I need that very much because I'm now ready with the rest of a feedback motor in way similar to @Roober33's save for the drum (mine isn't a V-gate; like I said, it needn't be). Feels extremely promising if there were no problems with making that darn ramp (cam). Same old, same old. We have this same problem in all kinds of seemingly different constructions of gravity and magnetic motors or combinations therefof. @Roober33 has done it and it beats me why he isn't in the mood of sharing. It really beats me why anyone would put so much effors (as @Roobert33 has obviously done) and then disappear. Rob from Texas, I spoke to, also told me has has had this type of motor running but didn't feel like going public with it. The main reason is, I think, they feel it isn't practical enough and they won't be able to cut their utility bills with it that's why they lose interest. How wrong and how sad.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 25, 2010, 09:22:25 PM
As for Mylow, don't bet your life on his fishing line either. You may be in for a surprise. Way back I was betting my life insisting that there couldn't possibly be anything between Clinton and Monika Lewinsky and a friend of mine warned me that that was too much to bet on unless you've witnessed the whole thing from beginning to end.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on November 26, 2010, 02:19:02 AM
Hi all ...I've been working on this for a long time ,long before I even owned a computer...I was suprised when I searched the web and found this site ....so many people doing the same things I've been trying for years..different perspectives'...different angles'....accumulative knowledge will help find the answer,.....not arguing, who's right, who's wrong...To All throw your ideas' "out there".............could be totally whacked, or might be the answer everybodies been looking for........but sorry to say I'm pretty sure this won't work.....build a totally balanced wheel ....then offset the balance.......tried it still won't work ...a sphere is automatically imbalanced...shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 26, 2010, 02:22:46 AM
Am example using @woopy's version.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on November 26, 2010, 02:39:48 AM
Jesus......the pull between gravity and magnetism will always find equallity..........no matter what the arrangement.......just my thoughts.........many exps........if we could get rid of friction ,we will have a chance....or if we could use friction to our advantage..........maybe produce current flow from the friction,to power an electromagnet to get by the sticky spot......I like your Ideas they are insipiring...........never give up, without people like you we would still be living in caves....thanx ....shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 26, 2010, 02:43:45 AM
Thank you @shylo!

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 26, 2010, 06:14:41 PM
get rid of the V-gate and use the all new, yet somehow improved WaveTrack â„¢... ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 26, 2010, 06:39:57 PM
get rid of the V-gate and use the all new, yet somehow improved WaveTrack â„¢... ;)
Looks promesing.............what is it?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 26, 2010, 09:46:39 PM
Magnets had arrived when I got home tonight, so viced them in.

Left the last two out while playing with it as a flat ramp, will pop them in for the rotor test.



Picture attached.



Here is a video.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJqFMNejrc



Cheers



Sean.



Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 27, 2010, 02:37:40 AM
The idea of the wave seems good.
The flexible v-track is well done.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 27, 2010, 04:00:05 AM
Wilby
{->TM<-}?
Seems very sexy,this wave track!,Where can we learn more?

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 27, 2010, 04:33:21 AM
Wilby
{->TM<-}?
Seems very sexy,this wave track!,Where can we learn more?

Chet
see that picture of that flexible track chet? do you understand how it 'wraps' around the 'hub' of the magnet motor? now imagine the W-track wrapped around a 'hub' and the magnets go where the green lines are...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: exnihiloest on November 27, 2010, 12:29:52 PM
Here's an update of my replication attempt.  I had the 64 cylinders made by the machinist as well as a drum of 80mm dia and 60mm height. I assembled the whole thing and the result was that it won't budge.
...

Congratulation. Your device works perfectly... 
...perfectly according to the physics laws about which I spoke recently and that you denied.    :D
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10034.msg264928#msg264928


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: McGiver30 on November 27, 2010, 06:32:14 PM
I would like to explain how I got a v-track to show great promise.. I don't work in an enviroment which allows cameras or phones. I also work long hours and spend most of my time away from home..But I do like to experiment and my passion is magnets. My motor has 4 v-tracks. I have an inner stator with 2 v-tracks but they do not over lap like everyone shows. Mine have a one magnet gap at the end of each track. same goes for my outer stator other then my tracks have 2 more magnets in length. but the trick is to get both stators to be far enough apart that the magnetic flux just meet(might have to add or remove magnets from end of outer stator) . also each stator is offset by 90 degrees so the end of each track do not line up to inner or outer stator. Now the trick once your to this point is to set the gap at the end of each v=track to be larger then the beginning.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: McGiver30 on November 27, 2010, 06:36:50 PM
I also drilled out small rubber balls to go around my rod magnets, and when I put them between my stators it goes around. I have not been able to have the time to improve it, but did put in a request with clanzer to in the future machine some stuff for me(since he does good quality machining).
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 28, 2010, 11:08:35 AM
see that picture of that flexible track chet? do you understand how it 'wraps' around the 'hub' of the magnet motor? now imagine the W-track wrapped around a 'hub' and the magnets go where the green lines are...

Yiu should restrain from posting crap such as the above because in this way you're clogging important discussions.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 28, 2010, 03:29:50 PM
Okay got the V-Track mounted on Rotor.

Pictue and video below, back off out into the workshop !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq8T7_ZQNTQ

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 28, 2010, 04:23:24 PM
@clanzer

Great job!

You and @zmonkey are the best making the parts needed for a project.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: bourne on November 28, 2010, 04:29:43 PM
@ ClaNZeR I posted this on your utube video but I will repost it here for @everyone

Very nice Clanzer, as usual!

Quote
I feel I have to mention, on the original video, the Spring that was supporting the vertical rod, I would say, was adding its own dynamic to the lifting and drop from the cams passing.

By being slightly compressed at rest and able to compress past the rest position when the slide assembly drops it will add 'more' of the 'random hand movement' required by the 'Hammell device' idea.

The tiny damped oscillations of the bouncing top bar 'might' be beneficial towards 'un-sticking' the sticky spot.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 28, 2010, 04:33:16 PM
@ ClaNZeR   

Very nice construction!!!   I can hardly wait to see the cam in action...

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mscoffman on November 28, 2010, 05:41:52 PM
@all,

The question is what is the optimal configuration of magnets for one
single position of the v track to drive towards/against.

If one can make another synchronized drum and have each position be presented
with it's optimal counterpart, either attract or repel. And then skip the sticky
spot, I think one would have it.

For example *compromise* #1 is to find a single magnetic configuration for
one position to drive all magnetic trak configurations on one wheel. Most
likely with a drive force less than the optimal one. Compromise #2 puts the
cam in a position where it has to drive against that bars momentum mass and
the multiplies that by 2 to simultaneously drive the spring retraction energy,
as well. So I think that a dual drum would get rid of both compromises
simultaneously and therefore have a better chance of working.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 28, 2010, 05:53:58 PM
Mark:

Jesus posted a sketch of this idea a page or two back.  2 drums synced by a rubber drive belt or other means.  I have never seen that tried before anywhere, it just might work.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 28, 2010, 06:05:26 PM
Yiu should restrain from posting crap such as the above because in this way you're clogging important discussions.
crap? did you build it and see how it works oh great omni? you  don't have to be all pissy because your magnet motor attempt failed miserably. furthermore, if the Vgate could work, so could the Wtrack. if you knew squat about physics you would get that...

by the way, how is your version 2 coming? did you even get the rotor to turn yet? ::)

As for Mylow, don't bet your life on his fishing line either. You may be in for a surprise. Way back I was betting my life insisting that there couldn't possibly be anything between Clinton and Monika Lewinsky and a friend of mine warned me that that was too much to bet on unless you've witnessed the whole thing from beginning to end.
you should restrain from posting crap such as the above because in this way you're clogging important discussions.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Magluvin on November 28, 2010, 06:55:53 PM
It seems that the build up of speed of the wheel is key.   By looks of the track, I might think that 2 tracks in series having 2 SPOTS, the angle of the tracks would be more, causing more torque.
The reason there is pull on the wheel is the difference in how the magnets that are close to center of track and the ones that are closer to the outside. The wheel is being pulled in both directions, just stronger in one direction.

So by having 2 in series, the angle is changed more drastically, giving more torque, but now 2 sticky spots.

Now add 3 stators, with lifting cams (maybe mount the wheel axis vertical)  2 stators are always pulling while 1 gets lifted, adding to what is needed to lift rather than a single stator. 

Or maybe just more than 1 stator, without affecting each other   could be 4 , 5  or what ever.

Or another way may be to figure how to tension a spring, adding to the tension as the wheel is being torqued forward, Like charging a cap slowly and discharging it to lift the lever

One problem with the original in the vid, the stator is in attraction, and gravity pulling down on it, having more for the lever to accomplish. How about put that stator on the bottom and the wheel attracts it up to position and gravity helps the lever action to move the stator away, or even on the side where gravity has no effect.

Just thoughts

Mags
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on November 28, 2010, 07:08:03 PM
Hi Clanzer,

That is a great piece of work.

Hi All,

I drew out the idea of embedding the displacement path that your hand makes into the surface of cylinder. The idea is to have an outer drum with magnets that follows the track but have more magnets that are pulled along the track then being repelled at the gate. Maybe this offset of force is enough to push it through the deformed gate? The magnetic vector changes as you move your hand away so the v-track magnets may have to be angled to the normal of the original surface at the point of deformation.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 28, 2010, 07:24:43 PM
Could the V, or W, track work if it was possible to find a "weak" spot where a double shield could help a stator magnet to change polarity in order to repel and attract in the right moments? Maybe this would be another form of V track, but maybe it would be closer to a working one?

I ask because I have in a simulation found promising method to shield magnets. A way that makes the magnetic flux in two magnets, a moment totally independent of eachother. It's not a new discovery, but the shield are made as a double shield so the magnetism in two independent magnets doesn't share the same shield and magnetic path. Therefor these two magnets can for a moment "work alone" in order to to their own work (for example swap magnetic polarity without applying energy), and then continue to cooperate after these magnets have left the shield.

Simulations shows a truely balanced operation during polarityswap, and yet there is lots of excess force left to make motion when the magnets are in repel and attraction mode. I have already made a thread with this idea, about swapping magnetic polarity without applying energy.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: itanimuLLi on November 28, 2010, 09:20:07 PM
@ ClaNZeR   
as allways beautiful work of art
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 28, 2010, 09:39:56 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Beautiful work as usual. You're one of the few doing fruitful work here. I don't think people just offering ideas should be encouraged, even less opportunistic individuals clogging the bandwidth of the forum with trivial objections already understood to allow violation. The ideas of these constructions are trivial and what needs to be done is to apply very skillful engineering and craftsmanship. Those of us interested in this matter should study carefully the lessons given by the exceptional work done by the likes of @Roobert33. If someone doesn't have the means to do that he shouldn't rub it. Shouldn't even mention it. We all don't. Some of us are just more determined, as you are.

Having said the above I'd like to mention my concerns regarding your design. The experience I had with the first model adds to what was obvious from the get go -- the drum has to be very very light. This is every bit a watchmaking job. The interplay of forces to make it work is so delicate that any deviation would amount to a dead end.

Now I'm preparing my second variant with a substantially lighter rotor and an arrangement different from @Roobrt33's V-gate. It seems very promising if I can succeed in manufacturing the proper cam. Will try to get in touch tomorrow with someone who has a super precise metal erosion cnc. I was told that's the state of the art in the Swiss watch making industry. Unfortunately, I have only several days to do that and then, as I said, will have to replicate the whole effort in the states because I don't want to carry with me sharp pieces throught the airports.

The theory this is based is the expectation (one can qualitatively feel that by playing with the above device) that the mechanical work of lifting the stator is less than the work of the drum turning from standstill to the point of lifting. That last work isn't enough to overcome the sticky spot, as is known. That there can be conditions of the former two different types of work to be in favorable proportion has already been show in the case of the magnetic propulsory. the question is how we're going to implement it here. @Roobert33 has obviously done it, we should be able to do it too.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: burgas on November 28, 2010, 10:22:50 PM
Hi All,
http://www.youtube.com/user/isidoropotente#p/u/5/Z1Ral-qQZ0s
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 28, 2010, 11:08:12 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Beautiful work as usual. You're one of the few doing fruitful work here. I don't think people just offering ideas should be encouraged, even less opportunistic individuals clogging the bandwidth of the forum with trivial objections already understood to allow violation. The ideas of these constructions are trivial and what needs to be done is to apply very skillful engineering and craftsmanship. Those of us interested in this matter should study carefully the lessons given by the exceptional work done by the likes of @Roobert33. If someone doesn't have the means to do that he shouldn't rub it. Shouldn't even mention it. We all don't. Some of us are just more determined, as you are.

Having said the above I'd like to mention my concerns regarding your design. The experience I had with the first model adds to what was obvious from the get go -- the drum has to be very very light. This is every bit a watchmaking job. The interplay of forces to make it work is so delicate that any deviation would amount to a dead end.

Now I'm preparing my second variant with a substantially lighter rotor and an arrangement different from @Roobrt33's V-gate. It seems very promising if I can succeed in manufacturing the proper cam. Will try to get in touch tomorrow with someone who has a super precise metal erosion cnc. I was told that's the state of the art in the Swiss watch making industry. Unfortunately, I have only several days to do that and then, as I said, will have to replicate the whole effort in the states because I don't want to carry with me sharp pieces throught the airports.

The theory this is based is the expectation (one can qualitatively feel that by playing with the above device) that the mechanical work of lifting the stator is less than the work of the drum turning from standstill to the point of lifting. That last work isn't enough to overcome the sticky spot, as is known. That there can be conditions of the former two different types of work to be in favorable proportion has already been show in the case of the magnetic propulsory. the question is how we're going to implement it here. @Roobert33 has obviously done it, we should be able to do it too.
Roobert33 haven't done it - he admitted he was just joking with us. If anyone are able to replicate his device 100% correct (CNC "magnets", and a powersupply under his sweather), the device will not work - unless there is a powersupply under your shirt. Or have I missed your point?

A lighter drum, or bigger, heavier, more powerful magnets? I do not see the point in having a lighter drum, if the total weight of the magnets are relatively high anyways.

Are you suppose to be the person who determine whos ideas are good and bad? Offering ideas is the very reason most members actually are members of this forum. Ignoring ideas, bad or good, should be a shame. Who knows? Maybe the least obvious good idea could get us further. "I don't think people just offering ideas should be encouraged"; Those words are MEAN! How can you say that?

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 28, 2010, 11:09:26 PM
Burgas
Thanks
I see Wilby's Wave !!

http://www.youtube.com/user/isidoropotente#p/u/5/Z1Ral-qQZ0s
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 28, 2010, 11:19:34 PM
like I said all these ideas are trivial and posting more of these trivialities should be discouraged to keep the discussion focused. Non-trivial is the actual making of these devices and some individuals such as @Roobert33 are obviously better than others in that.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Jubjub on November 28, 2010, 11:21:35 PM
Roobert33 haven't done it - he admitted he was just joking with us. If anyone are able to replicate his device 100% correct (CNC "magnets", and a powersupply under his sweather), the device will not work - unless there is a powersupply under your shirt. Or have I missed your point?

There's no need for a powersupply under a sweater. A small electric toy car in the drum will do it  ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 28, 2010, 11:33:34 PM
There's no need for a powersupply under a sweater. A small electric toy car in the drum will do it  ;)

There's no need for a small electric toy car in the drum either. Turning the drum by hand will be even simpler. No such things, though, let alone a power supply under a sweater. Instead we see a skillfully made device which needs careful replicating.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 28, 2010, 11:46:44 PM
like I said all these ideas are trivial and posting more of these trivialities should be discouraged to keep the discussion focused. Non-trivial is the actual making of these devices and some individuals such as @Roobert33 are obviously better than others in that.

Omni:

Chill out.  Please do not ridicule others ideas when you admitted that you still think Mylow's motor was real and working without the fish line.  I really thought that you were more intelligent than that.  And the Bill Clinton thing?  Man, I saw that a mile away the first time she stood next to him at a press conference.

This motor is not a real working motor.  The "inventor" freely admitted that.  I really don't see the point of replicating another fake.  It was an interesting design and a unique approach BUT, it did not work which is why it had to be faked.

When you come up with a working design, I will be the first to shake your hand, but, until then, anyone's ideas on how this might be done are as valid as anyone else's.

With all due respect,

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 28, 2010, 11:54:18 PM
Hi All,
http://www.youtube.com/user/isidoropotente#p/u/5/Z1Ral-qQZ0s
Interesting video..   is the solenoid just returning the stator?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 29, 2010, 12:31:50 AM
Omni:

Chill out.  Please do not ridicule others ideas when you admitted that you still think Mylow's motor was real and working without the fish line.  I really thought that you were more intelligent than that.  And the Bill Clinton thing?  Man, I saw that a mile away the first time she stood next to him at a press conference.

This motor is not a real working motor.  The "inventor" freely admitted that.  I really don't see the point of replicating another fake.  It was an interesting design and a unique approach BUT, it did not work which is why it had to be faked.

When you come up with a working design, I will be the first to shake your hand, but, until then, anyone's ideas on how this might be done are as valid as anyone else's.

With all due respect,

Bill

It's not about ridiculing ideas. The truth is these ideas are all trivial and there's no need to generate more trivialities. You won't disagree, I hope, that overwhelmingly the posts are by armchair philosophers, repeating the obvious over and over again although in difference wraps and not by people really involved in the research. @Roober33's is by no means just an idea but is a real apparatus made with superb craftsmanship. You can't compare that with someone's scribble, calling it an idea, not to say with the impudent interference of certain individuals with their useless blabber, interrupting the discussions.

As for the admission, like I said, I don't believe a word of that admission. Please show how this drum can turn, powered by a coil in your shirt and then I may start believing it is fake. I don't know about Mylow either. The fishing line escape was too fishy. If you need a real scam, however, look at what @alsetalokin(@Tinsel Koala) did when trying to teach @overconfident a lesson. Yes, that was a genuine scam. I don't know what lesson @overconfident learned from that but many of us learned not to trust a word of what @alsetalokin(@Tinsel Koala) says.

As for @Roobert33 there may be many reasons why he went into oblivion faking an admission. He might have been threatened or may just want the likes of Sterling Allen to get off his back. People may have all kinds of reasons for such behavior. He may, for instance, think that it isn't good enough because it can't be used in its current form to cut his utility bills.

Of course, there's a new trend among those who want to squash the OU movement. They know the times have changed, especially when there's Internet, and a plain denial won't work let alone prohibition. The innovative approaches to fight the "fools" dealing with OU are, in addition to ridicule, resorting to offering plausible fakes to teach anyone of those wide eyed crazies a lesson by leading them along a garden path to nowhere. In this way they hope the coo coos will be burnt out and will stop multiplying, thus clearing the road for the mainstream. This @Roobert33 action very well may be another one of those projects aimed at what said forces see as nuisance in the face of the OU adherents. That's a possibility if we didn't already have a firm basis to know such machines are possible.

So, look at this situation from its positive perspective following from these two things: on the one hand it has already been proven that such machines can exist and on the other, instead of just theorizing @Roobert33 has actually shown a realliy skillfully made model, a model of perfection rarely seen in these forums. The question we have to ask ourselves at this point is whether or not the principles of the magnetic propulsor (the device definitively proving OU) are implemented in @Roobert33's device. If these principles are implemented then it really is a perpetuum mobile. On the face of it it appears they are but the real answer can be reached only through experiment. The theoretical analysis isn't straightforward, unfortunately.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 29, 2010, 01:47:12 AM
I guess the main thing that made me think this could possibly work was that the cam was leveraged.    I wrote this paper in 2009 about a leveraged stator concept and even named the concept LevStat.  (work in progress)     I really believe it has not been fully explored.    The V-gate rotor design by Robert33 looks to provide a possible a good test of the concept whether it works or not.   

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Dusty on November 29, 2010, 04:58:55 AM
It seems like the sticky spot is always the problem.  I've been working on an idea to get through that sticky spot and it involves turning the magnet at the exact point where it would normally hang up.  I made a video which shows what I'm talking about at:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMtVYat4MKs

It might help with the V-track design, or maybe not? 

Dusty
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 29, 2010, 06:19:34 AM
@Dusty,

Good demo and thanks for sharing. Now you have to think of a way to have the device itself lock and unlock the magnets at the right moments. I tried doing it with a one-way bearing clutch which is something similar to what Mikhail Dmitriyev does. Unfortunately the clutch needs to be able to lock both ways at a certain point and after carrying through one quarter of the circle resume its one-way locking. Probably that can be accomplished but the cam idea seems more technologically viable.

As for rotating @CLaNZeR's stator (and mine too) around the axis of cylinder, that won't seem to help because the poles will stay the same. If, however, it can be rotated sideways somehow just at the right moment, having it mechanically blocked and then later released, that may help. But, again, the device itself has to spend mechanical energy for that reorganization and that energy has to be less than the energy needed to overcome the sticky spot. How can this be done without losing energy to friction?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: phild on November 29, 2010, 02:24:35 PM

Just a quick idea.

I found this vid on YouTube, please take a look and then read the on...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VN6KWM8Rbc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

As you can see (If I'm making sense of the vid), the ball runs up a slight incline and because the ramp is quite far apart, it is able to drop out (via gravity) and continue rolling.

The point is: that the ball drops out at a height which is higher then its starting point.   This would suggest that the track could be bent around in a gentle curve, decreasing in height, until its at the starting point of the ramp where it might start again.

Thoughts?




Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 29, 2010, 02:37:55 PM
Just a quick idea.

I found this vid on YouTube, please take a look and then read the on...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VN6KWM8Rbc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

As you can see (If I'm making sense of the vid), the ball runs up a slight incline and because the ramp is quite far apart, it is able to drop out (via gravity) and continue rolling.

The point is: that the ball drops out at a height which is higher then its starting point.   This would suggest that the track could be bent around in a gentle curve, decreasing in height, until its at the starting point of the ramp where it might start again.

Thoughts?

This experiment (not the concrete video because there are tons of such videos) has been discussed extensively and I have proved conclusively that conservation of energy principle (CoE) can be violated. As I already said, @Roobert33's experiment has to include the principles which the youtube vid you showed is based on. That will guarantee that excess energy is indeed produced which would drive @Roobert33's device. Like I said, it's difficult to analyze that theoretically and the solution will come about only through experiment. Too bad @Roobert33 disappeared in the usual manner so many claimants evaporated into thin air and we can't learn more from his experience. That behavior is so common that I would've wondered if I saw him in this discussion. That would've made me even more suspicious. That's how twisted the whole business in this area of research has become.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 29, 2010, 02:46:06 PM
Dusty
Good to see your still at it ,always thinking and sharing !
Perhaps turning would cost less than lifting?
Thanks
@Phild,
Attraction only [Rob the Mr.Handman said]!! "tune" the magnets out and keep the ball rolling?
Seems to be what this fellow is doing?
Not bad for his first attempt!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VN6KWM8Rbc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Thanks
Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on November 29, 2010, 03:55:10 PM
Hi.
My small observation: all guys here seem to neglect the small contraption at the bottom of the original R33 machine: it is never seen in any replica. I think, it gives a momentary "boost" to the wheel.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 29, 2010, 04:03:19 PM
Hi.
My small observation: all guys here seem to neglect the small contraption at the bottom of the original R33 machine: it is never seen in any replica. I think, it gives a momentary "boost" to the wheel.

Yeah, the role of that detail is unclear. Seems like what you get as boost is due to spending of the earlier produced energy. That's how it appears superficially but there may be more to it.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 29, 2010, 10:37:29 PM
One positive thought about the magnet at the bottom.... Maybe it is a control to slow the motor down since it might speed up too much and break....  if it really works.   
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 29, 2010, 10:38:05 PM
Wonder why R33 used fake magnets in the V-track - made of CNC machined steel rods. I also wonder why the seesaw in the very bottom wasen't affected by the "magnets" at all, except when it was activated by the cam - it should stick instantly into the "magnets" in the V-track. I also wonder why some still believe this V-track was a working one which is worth replicating.

Just wondering.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 29, 2010, 11:00:49 PM
Just a quick idea.

I found this vid on YouTube, please take a look and then read the on...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VN6KWM8Rbc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

As you can see (If I'm making sense of the vid), the ball runs up a slight incline and because the ramp is quite far apart, it is able to drop out (via gravity) and continue rolling.

The point is: that the ball drops out at a height which is higher then its starting point.   This would suggest that the track could be bent around in a gentle curve, decreasing in height, until its at the starting point of the ramp where it might start again.

Thoughts?
Let me apply some facts about such devices:

The energy that appears to "pop" up from nowhere, are actually the work done by the hand in advance. What most people doesn't know (Or just don't admit), is when releasing the steel ball further away from the ramp, it will repell and go backwards. Everyone who have tried this SMOT ramp knows this well - me included. This repelling force is easily overcomed by the hand which place the steel ball close enough to be attracted. This force over the required distance to get close enough to the ramp is the energy you need to apply in order for the steel ball to climb that hill in the first place. So what to the eye appears to be OU are not OU at all.

What seams like to be a potential difference when it regards the hight is also misunderstood. Yes the hight in altitude are greater at the end of the ramp, but the magnetic field which is affecting the ball, is virtually leveling out the difference in hight because it is more attracting at the end than in the bottom. Also when the ball falls through the ramp at the end, it does not fall at 9.81ms^2, but less due to the attraction to the magnetic ramp which slows down the acceleration towards the ground.

The above facts are the very reason why such ramps cannot be looped back. A succesful loop back are depending on overunity. No overunity will not make a successful closed loop. Also for these reasons there has never been a single video on Youtube of a successful closed loop.

EDIT: Furthermore; The ramp is also working like a hoist which exchange weight pr hight with time. It require less force but more time to roll a 1 ton car up a gentle uphill, but if the end of the hill are suddenly terminated into a steep hill, none are able to keep that car from falling down. SMOTs are nice tricks, but not OU.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 29, 2010, 11:13:15 PM
Let me apply some facts about such devices:

The energy that appears to "pop" up from nowhere, are actually the work done by the hand in advance. What most people doesn't know (Or just don't admit), is when releasing the steel ball further away from the ramp, it will repell and go backwards. Everyone who have tried this SMOT ramp knows this well - me included. This repelling force is easily overcomed by the hand which place the steel ball close enough to be attracted. This force over the required distance to get close enough to the ramp is the energy you need to apply in order for the steel ball to climb that hill in the first place. So what to the eye appears to be OU are not OU at all.

What seams like to be a potential difference when it regards the hight is also misunderstood. Yes the hight in altitude are greater at the end of the ramp, but the magnetic field which is affecting the ball, is virtually leveling out the difference in hight because it is more attracting at the end than in the bottom. Also when the ball falls through the ramp at the end, it does not fall at 9.81ms^2, but less due to the attraction to the magnetic ramp which slows down the acceleration towards the ground.

The above facts are the very reason why such ramps cannot be looped back. A succesful loop back are depending on overunity. No overunity will not make a successful closed loop. Also for these reasons there has never been a single video on Youtube of a successful closed loop.

Vidar

Complete nonsense.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 29, 2010, 11:20:30 PM
Complete nonsense.
EDIT: Furthermore; The ramp is also working like a hoist which exchange force with time. It require less force at greater time to roll a 1 ton car up a gentle uphill, but if the end of the hill are suddenly terminated into a steep hill, none are able to keep that car from falling down. SMOTS do the same thing. Using less force but greater time to roll the ball uphill. Where the ramp are terminated, the gravity stright down are a much greater force, and the ball will escape.

It makes absolutely sense.

I fully understand if its hard for you to admit you're wrong, but still denying facts, and base your "facts" on whishful thinking is not better.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 29, 2010, 11:31:17 PM
EDIT: Furthermore; The ramp is also working like a hoist which exchange force with time. It require less force at greater time to roll a 1 ton car up a gentle uphill, but if the end of the hill are suddenly terminated into a steep hill, none are able to keep that car from falling down. SMOTS do the same thing. Using less force but greater time to roll the ball uphill. Where the ramp are terminated, the gravity stright down are a much greater force, and the ball will escape.

It makes absolutely sense.

Vidar

What the hell is this gibberish all about? There's one more person, posting here from time to time, capable of uttering similar gibberish and how good it would be if threads such as this one can be kept clean from that nonsense. This field of research is in desperate need of bright capable brains, especially of such skilled in making precise devices and not of laborious posters, such as the one above, having no clue what their own posts mean.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 30, 2010, 12:16:57 AM
I know you dont like me, but please stop clogging this thread with nonsense, lies, and offencing language towards me and other people you dont like. It will not help neather you, me, or anyone else. Start watching your language, and allow other people than you alone to determine what is true or not, and what is good ideas or not. You are not in charge here. Have that in mind too.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 30, 2010, 12:35:38 AM
I know you dont like me, but please stop clogging this thread with nonsense, lies, and offencing language towards me and other people you dont like. It will not help neather you, me, or anyone else. Start watching your language, and allow other people than you alone to determine what is true or not, and what is good ideas or not. You are not in charge here. Have that in mind too.

It's not that I don't like you personally. I don't like aggressive nonsense. Especially aggressive nonsense such as the one you and that other individual are spreading which interferes with the discussion, thus making it non-productive. You should not only watch your language but should curb "theorizing" about things you don't understand because in this way you're taking up the space of others who may contribute towards the so much needed positive outcome. That's the reason why gibberish such as yours should be nipped in the bud no matter who's in charge. Enough is enough.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on November 30, 2010, 07:38:38 AM
Oh please! How would the outcome of this forum become if only dreamers, wishful thinking should rule the discussion?
I'm not stupid, if it's that what you think - even if also I wave dreams and wishes. My last 'theories' in this thread are very trough tested in real life. End of this discussion. Your attitude really makes me sick. I'm out of here - you win....
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: exnihiloest on November 30, 2010, 09:31:00 AM
What the hell is this gibberish all about? There's one more person, posting here from time to time, capable of uttering similar gibberish and how good it would be if threads such as this one can be kept clean from that nonsense.
...

It's not that I don't like you personally. I don't like aggressive nonsense....  You should not only...

"aggressive nonsense" is for you what you don't understand, i.e. more than 80% of the scientific and technical matter on this forum.
You always call "gibberish" good explanations of phenomena, even Einstein's relativity. You ignore and deny the rational and scientific methodology and knowledge. You are unable to oppose by logical, intelligent and constructive argumentation, so your only referential is your satisfied ignorance and your dialog method is personal attacks against people much more relevant than you.
Your aggressive behavior on this forum is a shame.


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 30, 2010, 09:59:23 AM
"aggressive nonsense" is for you what you don't understand, i.e. more than 80% of the scientific and technical matter on this forum.
You always call "gibberish" good explanations of phenomena, even Einstein's relativity. You ignore and deny the rational and scientific methodology and knowledge. You are unable to oppose by logical, intelligent and constructive argumentation, so your only referential is your satisfied ignorance and your dialog method is personal attacks against people much more relevant than you.
Your aggressive behavior on this forum is a shame.

So, where is the good explanation of the device at hand?

As far as aggressive behavior goes it is your opportunistic behavior that's aggressive. For instance, you know Einstein's "theory" exists in the focus of some mainstream circles and from that you conclude it cannot be wrong. You have no clue what Einstein's "theory" really is and are impudently pushing your ignorance even in threads that have nothing to do with that "theory" (let alone that, being sheer stupidity it cannot have anything to do with any discussion of scientific matters). This is more than a shame. That's impudence and disruptive behavior discussions such as this need the least. That should stop.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: powercat on November 30, 2010, 12:17:11 PM
Argument Clinic anyone  ::)  ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on November 30, 2010, 02:57:38 PM
Hi to all...
I am new as registered user, but it is not first time reading here.
About the V-gate motor I've seen here, in my opinion it is very well posible to work, with few improvments. I hope soon you all will see a real working all magnet motor based on a different principle. The prototype is almost ready, after many problems. It is not so easy to build something without help. And I repeat, this model you are talking here, with few small modifications will work. I did tryied and it can work. The only problem, it is not generating too much mechanic energy. The V gate is not the optimal solution. There is another way to get more mechanical work from a magnet motor.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: truesearch on November 30, 2010, 04:36:59 PM
@marianpiti:

Can you give us some details as to what your "better-design" is? If the V-Gate is wrong what is the better way?

Truesearch
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on November 30, 2010, 06:47:21 PM
I am not saying that is wrong, only that is not good enough... V-gate has limited power, and that power is pretty small. There is another way...I will not tell yet as long is not public. And I am still waiting my patent... When the prototype is ready ( I hope next week) I will make it public. But, as I can tell you, it is a well known effect, but never tried in my way, never tried with magnets...It took 5 - 6 months to understand. It is simple and well known.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 30, 2010, 09:03:29 PM
Let me apply some facts about such devices:

The energy that appears to "pop" up from nowhere, are actually the work done by the hand in advance. What most people doesn't know (Or just don't admit), is when releasing the steel ball further away from the ramp, it will repell and go backwards. Everyone who have tried this SMOT ramp knows this well - me included.

Vidar

Hi Vidar

Got to agree with most ramps this is the case when using a magnet and not a steel ball.

But with this V-Ramp you do not get this, check out the first video. The ball and magnet ball both get sucked in.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on November 30, 2010, 10:14:26 PM
Clanzer, I was following you on youtube for some time...I have a question: how can you get done so many things ? I have many ideas, but not enough money to do what I want; you can get fast almost everything... are you a millionaire ?
Sorry for been so direct, but your capacity to produce different devices amazed me.
And I really like your English :)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on November 30, 2010, 10:30:21 PM
Clanzer, I was following you on youtube for some time...I have a question: how can you get done so many things ? I have many ideas, but not enough money to do what I want; you can get fast almost everything... are you a millionaire ?
Sorry for been so direct, but your capacity to produce different devices amazed me.
And I really like your English :)

LOL no I am not a millionaire, I have to work away from home 5 days a week and my money I earn feeds, clothes and pays the bills for 5 of us.

I only get the weekends to play and wish I had more time to spend on this.

It is expensive to pay companies to build you things, so learn how to do it yourself. I could not afford to buy my first CNC machine, so I designed one. Then after lessons learnt, I built my bigger one at a really small cost, compared to what a commercial one would cost.

Lots of people spend their hard earnt money on their hobbies, mine just happens to be a bit unusual LOL.

But as long as it stays fun then I will continue.

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: gyulasun on November 30, 2010, 10:38:16 PM
Hi marianpiti,

Hopefully in your patent application you cleverly avoided any mention of the possibility to run your motor just by permanent magnets, this would be a red flag for the patent examiners to grant you the patent, unfortunately this is so in many countries. Or as the worst case, they could say your application demands top secret treatment for good just due to national/military interest or whatever and you can forget it from that moment to utilize it. I hope this never happens to your application.
You mentioned the effect that you never tried with magnets earlier, if it is possible to tell: what else does the effect work with,  besides magnets? I am curious... :)

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on November 30, 2010, 10:38:25 PM
Hehe...I am also the type "do it yourself"... I also have busy week at work... I also have a family... but still... You are way too fast when it comes about doing all this...And improvising a CNC is a big deal...I can't afford for the moment...

Thank you,
Marian


p.s.
I have a Rover 620 TI... splendid car...but I cant get parts here in Denmark.... I will ask you when I need some things if you can help with this... I will send the money in advance, to be sure you are not stressed about.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on November 30, 2010, 10:46:52 PM
Gyula, you are right... first time, they ask me to have contact with Danish Technologic Institute so the patent application get an OK from them. Problem is that in Denmark is nobody to understand magnetism physics. After 6 months, talking and meeting many scientists on high level, I did descoverd that many dont even understand fully how the electric motor works...One professor (3rd as importance in Denmark) from Aarhus University told me directly after one hour, that the only place in Europe where physicists are well prepared in magnetism is east Europe. Anyway...after I told them that a first prototype was ready but got destroyed because it was very very improvised, but very good to prove that I am not crazy, they accepted my application, but I must build a prototype before one year from applications date. It was a shock for me to discover many things, but this is how it is... And another problem is I am not danish...I am romanian...(not gypsy).
Thank you,
Marian
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on November 30, 2010, 10:58:14 PM
Hi marianpiti,

Hopefully in your patent application you cleverly avoided any mention of the possibility to run your motor just by permanent magnets, this would be a red flag for the patent examiners to grant you the patent, unfortunately this is so in many countries.


I did, and you are right....many troubles because of that...Many money thrown on meetings with different so called scientists or specialists.


 Or as the worst case, they could say your application demands top secret treatment for good just due to national/military interest or whatever and you can forget it from that moment to utilize it. I hope this never happens to your application.


They never mention about military secrets. Denmark dont have a real army... just something that looks like.


You mentioned the effect that you never tried with magnets earlier, if it is possible to tell: what else does the effect work with,  besides magnets? I am curious...

It is so simple, that only one look  (from somebody that understand how magnets works) on the drawings or the pictures of the prototype and you will do it...
Actualy, Clanzer will ...he is faster and have a CNC. This is why I am reserved.... Only one hint...all magnets are moving. Not all the same...but they are. Actualy there are 2 solutions... The simple one is with all moving...the best ...is with only few moving...but I am not Clanzer, I dont have a CNC :))



Thanks,  Gyula

Thank you, Marian
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on November 30, 2010, 11:09:12 PM
Gyula... 2 more hints...

1. from the bible.... A wheel in a wheel...
2. take a closer look on crop circles ... specially those with circles inside other circles... :)


Thank you
Marian

 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: gyulasun on November 30, 2010, 11:13:35 PM
Marian,

Sorry to hear your "adventures" with 'professors', it must have been a bad feeling for you to directly experience their real knowledge... lol

I hope you will have success in building your setup in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for the hints, I will try to ponder on them.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on November 30, 2010, 11:24:40 PM
The prototype is ready, but because of an error (the guy who did the parts in his mini-factory made an error), it does producing torque, but is not rotating...like you pushing the wall... you do a lot of work, but there is no work done because the wall didn't move :)... Anyway...last week I did measure the torque from system and is very good...This week I talked with the guy with CNC (not Clanzer :) ) and he will modify the part with error... with no extra costs... So, I hope next week is ready and does rotate.

Marian
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 30, 2010, 11:49:41 PM
@CLaNZeR,

You're one of the few researchers in these forums who do actual work at that with great skill and determination. I'd like to say to you once again that I admire you for that. You're setting an example for everyone of us how one can achieve goals against all odds finding fun in addition.

Now, regarding the case at hand. I'm having a great deal of trouble getting the basic setup properly made. Even the making of a right axis turned out not to be a straightforward project let alone a close to adequate cam. As I said earlier, one needs watchmaking precision and that so far has never been the case, the least in what I have done so far. Because of lack of equipment and the specifics of the fine mechanics needed most of the time the models are a crude resemblance of what is needed. This time I'm determined to make it closer to what's right. I'm ready with the drum and the arrangement of the magnets and the next step is to make the cam properly. That darn cam is the stumbling block in all those types of devices. Take Torbay's motor or the ramp of Sjack Abeling machine, for instance. Here there's a precision metal abrasion machine (in another town, unfortunately) and I'll see what I can do this week. If not, will continue that in the states. I'm leaving by the end of this week. Will definitely report back here if there's any development in that important aspect (the making of the cam). I think everyone of us should cooperate and share experience as much as possible so that we can facilitate our activity in making a working OU machine.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on November 30, 2010, 11:52:36 PM
@marianpiti,

What do you mean when you say you measured the torque? Do you have an actual working machine, although crude, and now you're just asking that guy to make it more precise?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on December 01, 2010, 02:41:11 AM
one excuse after the next usually means bullshit.....but not always..shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on December 01, 2010, 02:48:01 AM
if I had a working device I would plaster it all over the internet that way there would be no way of being silenced.............if I ever get my wheel to work the last place I would go would be to the patent office.............the oil barons will kill you.......it's time to get rid of the powers that be.......shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 01, 2010, 06:27:24 AM
@shylo,

You hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what should be done. The sooner the better.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 01, 2010, 08:08:51 AM
I do have a device physically producing torque, not rotation, because of a wrong component, builded with wrong dimension... Different parts of the device are driven with belts... In the belts I have arround 35 - 40 kg. force. But is only static force, as long cant rotate. The diameter of the device is 75 cm. Every rotation reinitiate the start point. My first prototype did worked few minutes... but I didnt have time to record on video. It was made with glue and wires, and the magnets was little to strong for this kind of construction...so everything got destroyed. Now...you are saying to put all on internet...I was ready to do it first time, but then everybody will know that there is a guy that builded...and they will deffinitivelly serch for me...Now I am sharing with few close friends (engineers). If a car hit me, they will know everything about. And I still think to put on youtube, but I dont think this will help more than keeping my mouth shot.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 01, 2010, 08:35:30 AM
And to be honest, I am thinking for some time to get in contact with Clanzer...Now I know he has a CNC, and this is verry important...He can do all alone, not like me. At a moment he will have all details to replicate my idea...actually ideas...I did find 4 methods of using magnets and producing mechanic work. Only 2 of them produce enough. The other 2 just like the V gate, produce too little.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 02, 2010, 04:18:19 AM
SSOOoo.............
Marion,
Perhaps just share one Idea?,We can build it here!!

   It would be fun!![Lots]

   ?
  Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 02, 2010, 08:35:45 AM
I will... Verry soon I will. I will share few ideas...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 02, 2010, 08:55:43 AM
I will... Verry soon I will. I will share few ideas...

Please don't share ideas. If you don't have a working self-sustaining device to show and have third parties replicate all else would be useless waste of forum bandwidth.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 02, 2010, 08:57:34 AM
This is why I was saying ... I will...soon... After I test my ideas, I will share. Or not :)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: exnihiloest on December 02, 2010, 10:16:50 AM
So, where is the good explanation of the device at hand?
For instance, you know Einstein's "theory" exists in the focus of some mainstream circles and from that you conclude it cannot be wrong.
...

Don't demand from others what you yourself are unable to provide, always replacing constructive answers by ad hominem argumentum, even against Einstein.
I understand special relativity, it is not very complicated. If you understood it too, you would recognize Einstein's genius; not a question of academic recognition but of intelligence.
Relativity perfectly explains our observations. If SR was wrong, electromagnetism would also be wrong because both are linked, and mechanics would also be wrong because electromagnetism is fully compatible with mechanics.
The nonsense that you attribute to others is your lack of understanding and your discourse against them personally is that of satisfied and vindictive ignorance.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 02, 2010, 10:29:48 AM
Don't demand from others what you yourself are unable to provide, always replacing constructive answers by ad hominem argumentum, even against Einstein.
I understand special relativity, it is not very complicated. If you understood it too, you would recognize Einstein's genius; not a question of academic recognition but of intelligence.
Relativity perfectly explains our observations. If SR was wrong, electromagnetism would also be wrong because both are linked, and mechanics would also be wrong because electromagnetism is fully compatible with mechanics.
The nonsense that you attribute to others is your lack of understanding and your discourse against them personally is that of satisfied and vindictive ignorance.

Restrain from spewing nonsense and don't clog th thread with unrelated stuff and gibberish. You don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 02, 2010, 12:54:15 PM
@omnibus

It seems that the idea you have is way better than ours.

Would you be so kind as to esplain it with schematics and graphics?
The whole community will appreciate it very much.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 02, 2010, 01:44:00 PM
@omnibus

It seems that the idea you have is way better than ours.

Would you be so kind as to esplain it with schematics and graphics?
The whole community will appreciate it very much.

Jesus

All these ideas are basically the same. They are trivial and what's needed is to work on the practical matter of making a demonstrable device. This is what I'm working on right now and I don't think it's necessary to report on every step of my activity. You may have noticed that I post technical details only when it aopears that there's something important to share. So far, as I said, I'm stuck with making the cam properly. The rest is ready (as is usually the case). Will post details when there's a development in this respect.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 02, 2010, 02:12:01 PM
There is a way to seem that you are doing something and just show words that seem cool as an answer.

But a good schematic or graphic will stir the other inventors mind and can help you with your problem.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 02, 2010, 03:07:10 PM
Omnibus....my idea is not like all the rest... I am aware that with static magnets you cant get results (ex: Perendev idea). The only way to make magnets work as we want is to syncronize them and mentain an unbalanced system all the time (if possible) or as long possible in order to produce more constructive work than consumed or non-constructive work. I did tested many, many configurations and I can say that only syncronizing the magnets in order to reproduce as long as possible the unbalanced state of the system can generate constructive mechanic work.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 02, 2010, 03:11:08 PM
Omnibus....my idea is not like all the rest... I am aware that with static magnets you cant get results (ex: Perendev idea). The only way to make magnets work as we want is to syncronize them and mentain an unbalanced system all the time (if possible) or as long possible in order to produce more constructive work than consumed or non-constructive work. I did tested many, many configurations and I can say that only syncronizing the magnets in order to reproduce as long as possible the unbalanced state of the system can generate constructive mechanic work.

Everybody knows that. Where's the model?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 02, 2010, 03:19:16 PM
There is a way to seem that you are doing something and just show words that seem cool as an answer.

But a good schematic or graphic will stir the other inventors mind and can help you with your problem.

Jesus

Here's a pic of what I've done so far. As you can see the drum is made of a soda can cut with a Dremmel tool and pairs of magnets placed spirally. You can also see the stator magnet. All is self-explanatory, I hope. With a very slight effort the stator magnet is lifted at the right moment and then let go. That done repetitiously causes the drum to turn. The thing that has to be done is to have the turning of the drum invoke that lifting and the hope is that the work for lifting the stator, when everything is positioned right, will be less than the work to overcome the magnetic barrier if there were no lifting. That hope is based on the evident fact that there is an obvious asymmetry between the force of gravity and the magnetic force. Force of gravity falls with the square of distance (it is practically constant in the studied case) while magnetic force falls with the cube of distance. To take advantage of that asymmetry, however, and make a demonstrable device one has to have watchmaking skills and infrastructure and that's what I'm struugling with at this moment.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: The Observer on December 02, 2010, 04:15:03 PM
Hello All,

I'm not sure if this fact has been focused on.

The Larger the Wheel,
                             the more Kinetic Energy can be Stored in the Wheel,
                                                                                      the more Energy would be available for moving the Stator.


Best Regards,
                     The Observer

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 02, 2010, 05:09:42 PM
Omnibus... in my opinion you are on the wrong way if that is your model. About my prototype, wait just a little and you will see it. Everybody will see it.

The Observer... I dont want to be rude, but this is basic physics. Now, my question is... How do you plan to put some energy in your big radius device (and heavy)
in order to have some kinetic energy into the system. This is the challenge...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: The Observer on December 02, 2010, 05:30:28 PM
Marian,

Yes it is basic physics, but sometimes it's good to say it in plain language.

All I am saying is that a bigger wheel, with more mass will have more energy to move the Stator.
If somebody has mentioned that, then sorry for repeating.

Best Regards,
                    The Observer

P.S. The Energy that Moves the Wheel comes from Unpaired Electron Infinite Spin (UEIS) present Ferromagnetics.
        I'm a big fan of  UEIS providing  Free Energy. ;o)~
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 02, 2010, 05:59:13 PM
The Observer...
In my opinion, the word infinite is wrong understood. In my opinion infinite don't exist. Everything is limited in time and space... I am not sure about god, but all the matter and material things are limited. And also the universe. I also believe perpetum mobile is impossible just because of the meaning...producing energy without energy. First, we must find a place in the universe without energy. And this is not possible...not for us, now...To test perpetum mobile you need a place with zero energy. There are many philosophic theories, I have also mine. If reality will prove I'm wrong, then I will accept the fact and I will reconsider my opinions. This is also available to your electron. :)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 02, 2010, 06:11:17 PM
Hello All,

I'm not sure if this fact has been focused on.

The Larger the Wheel,
                             the more Kinetic Energy can be Stored in the Wheel,
                                                                                      the more Energy would be available for moving the Stator.


Best Regards,
                     The Observer


While the part about the larger heavier wheel being able to store more energy is true, you left out the most important part of the equation, and that is it also takes a lot more energy to get it spinning in the first place.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on December 02, 2010, 07:08:53 PM
Omnibus... in my opinion you are on the wrong way if that is your model. About my prototype, wait just a little and you will see it. Everybody will see it.

The Observer... I dont want to be rude, but this is basic physics. Now, my question is... How do you plan to put some energy in your big radius device (and heavy)
in order to have some kinetic energy into the system. This is the challenge...
Weight isn't the problem. The problem is to gain more energy than you put in. Any heavy wheel will start to spin if friction isn't stopping it from running - IF there is excess energy which will accelerate the wheel. It only takes longer time for a given amount of energy to accelerate a heavy wheel versus a light one.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 02, 2010, 07:38:20 PM
Hi Low...this was my point also... how he plan to put energy in the system in order to make it run, and keep running.
How about your project ? Do you have a solution regarding on what your magnets run and what will hold the turning component ?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 02, 2010, 07:47:41 PM

While the part about the larger heavier wheel being able to store more energy is true, you left out the most important part of the equation, and that is it also takes a lot more energy to get it spinning in the first place.

Bill

Quite correct. I was just gonna say that. Great minds think alike.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mscoffman on December 02, 2010, 07:59:58 PM
You don't get out of the fact that the machine has to generate more energy
than it loses *per each of its cycles* or it will simply spin down over time.
A sufficient flywheel is required to lift the weight once and keep the mechanism
from slowing too much when it does.

---

If one could lift/drop the V-bar electronically with a solenoid, stepper motor or
servo motor based on the angle of the wheel. To optimize the wheel's acceleration
profile- if any. It then would be fairly easy to;

a) calculate how much energy is required to match a wheel's magnet acceleration
profile relative to RPM's. This can be done with a string wrapped around the axle
with a weight hanging over the table edge on a pulley.

b) calculate how much energy is required to lift the V-bar. Using it's weight, gravity
constant and lifting distance, assuming one is going to throw this energy away.

With these two pieces of information one could see at a glance whether to go ahead
and build the cam lift mechanism. The cam can try to recover some energy from the
V-bar drop or not, based in wheel rpm.

I'd feel a lot better at knowing analytically if one is generating sufficient energy
magnetically rather than just building something that may not work.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 02, 2010, 09:03:09 PM
Congratulations @omnibus!

You are on the right track. The inventors minds are at work now.
I suggest adding a counterweight to the lifting piece that will go on the axle to have the needed momentum.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 02, 2010, 09:08:22 PM
Quote
I'd feel a lot better at knowing analytically if one is generating sufficient energy
magnetically rather than just building something that may not work.

I feel the same way but what you're proposing isn't an analytical solution but experiments more complex than just building the cam and trying it.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 02, 2010, 09:24:07 PM
Proposed cam addition of a counterweight.
It could be also a threaded bolt soldered to the washer and several heavy nuts and washers to find its sweet balanced spot.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Magneticitist on December 02, 2010, 10:13:07 PM
"1 week ago

I just got this message from Roobert33:

Roobert33 has sent you a message:

R: Re: robert

To:overunitydotcom

Yes, It was a joke that I should not do! I apologize to you and all your friends who have lost time in commenting on ....

The device had to operate the magnet inside a coil that I had in my shirt. Greeting, Robert"

lol get the f outta here. that explanation makes less sense, and i think i'd rather see someone actually do that rather than see a magnet motor. in his shirt?  under the table would have been more reasonable. hey Mylow i know youre watching this thread too its time to chime in


at first i thought the spring was the secret.. and it would degrade over time.. but looking again the timing is off, the spring does nothing but protect the top bar from damaging over time.. the key to his arrangement is the imbalance.. his rotor is clearly NOT balanced and he has set a heavy point in one spot, exactly where the 4 magnets line up rather than just two. also the plastic slider is weighted in the same spot.. this is genius because hes actually using gravity and the magnets at the same time.. you cant run a load in this setup if its large enough to mess up the "unbalance".
also anyone who has played with pulse motors religiously may have noticed that sometimes the wheel goes faster when you "cog" it in the right places.

it seems to me that i think Bruce or something mentioned the plastic thing being used to pass the hump and hes right, but its not just the magnets, its the initial momentum gained from the rotor wanting to fall in the right direction. the motion and cogging should be equal until you bring the extra momentum into the picture hes generating from the rotor imbalance.


then again theres the chance i should have read the whole thread and i missed something important

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 02, 2010, 10:33:22 PM
Now I understand the use of the magnet at the bottom.
When the unbalanced cam with its momentum hits the lever and raise the bottom magnet, the magnet repels or attracts as needed in order to get the cam into speed to overcome the colision with the roller at the top.

The unbalanced shaft then start again the journey after passing the top.
Then the key is a good unbalanced cam mechanism.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 02, 2010, 10:45:00 PM
Longer the cam is, more work must be done in order to move. Think at disc break on the car...bigger is, less friction you need to break. Make it shorter...you need 2 cm up-down on magnet... shorter the arm is, less you spend. Make a 2 cm bump on the axis and an arm from top to the bump
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 03, 2010, 10:29:36 PM
Longer the cam is, more work must be done in order to move. Think at disc break on the car...bigger is, less friction you need to break. Make it shorter...you need 2 cm up-down on magnet... shorter the arm is, less you spend. Make a 2 cm bump on the axis and an arm from top to the bump

You may have a point here.    I was thinking the pivot point was at the point where the cam was touching/pushing the rotatable bearing at the top of the robert33 device. (when the cam pushes the top magnet away.)   Thus would have had more leverage.     Sorry if this is not the case and miss-led anyone in there design replications.    I think leverage is really key to this working. 

The force applied (at end points of the lever) is proportional to the ratio of the length of the lever arm measured between the fulcrum (pivoting point) and application point of the force applied at each end of the lever.  (per Wikipedia)


I think we need some more comments on where the pivoting points are.


Bill

   
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on December 05, 2010, 01:58:36 AM
I am doing some work on a related project and even though the cam is important, it cannot work! All the work gained in pulling the magnets closer will always take the same work to pull them away again. If there was enough energy to push the attracting magnet away, then the rotor would already have enough energy to pull itself away.

The rotor only has two magnets, the two in the center of the start of the "V" track. The rest are steel. The bar stator magnet on top, is magnetized through the faces and not end to end. This is an entirely different type of operation.
Is this possible?

   
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 05, 2010, 03:08:32 AM
@lumen

Use two small bar magnets on the same bar. One facing the north down and the other facing south down.

It is supposed that the weight of the cam starting at the top initiates the turning of the rotor.
The magnet activated at the bottom adds speed to the rotor and after lifting the bar the cam weight start the movement again.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Nihilanth on December 05, 2010, 03:10:50 PM
I was planning on building one of these myself at some point, but right now I'm pretty lacking in materials & tools to work with, so hopefully one of you can try this yourselves.

I thought of using two bar magnets as a lever escapement so that as one magnet gets repelled from the 'speed bump' the magnet on other end of the lever gets pushed towards the v-gate, accelerating the rotor until it does the same. It wouldn't be physically touching the rotor of course, but hopefully you get the gist of the idea.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 05, 2010, 04:05:01 PM
Nice idea!

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mscoffman on December 05, 2010, 05:59:32 PM
@Nihilanth,

A non-touching non-wear magnetic escapement mechanism
sure does sound interesting. I can't immediately visulize overunity
from it though. Better than magnetic gears.

:S:MarkSCofffman
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on December 05, 2010, 09:06:50 PM
Hi Low...this was my point also... how he plan to put energy in the system in order to make it run, and keep running.
How about your project ? Do you have a solution regarding on what your magnets run and what will hold the turning component ?
This must be discussed and updated in that particular thread. ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on December 06, 2010, 12:33:20 AM
Hi Nihilanth.........I already built that rotor, it didn't work for me,.....with a push it was very pulsating in motion,...but always came to rest in the same spot,.....the closest I've come so far is a lever that rides an outer track with a drive magnet,....the track goes up and down at the right times ,....so the drive magnet attracts during down time ,...and repels during up time....the problem I have is the friction on the bearings....if I could get a maglev track like used on those trains I think it would work.........don't stop trying .......shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on December 06, 2010, 07:01:23 AM
The lever must move a magnet away from the sticky spot. The sticky spot is the very reason why the rotor wants to rotate towards that direction in the first place. Moving the stator magnet away from the sticky spot, will of course require the same amount of energy as the possible energy you gain while rotating towards the sticky spot. So before you guys throw away more time on this, read the words from Robert33 once more, and watch the movie once more to confirm that his rotormagnets definitely are just fake. Such V-tracks will never work, because you must use energy to remove the reason why it wants to rotate in the first place.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Nihilanth on December 06, 2010, 09:34:33 AM
Hi Nihilanth.........I already built that rotor, it didn't work for me,.....with a push it was very pulsating in motion,...but always came to rest in the same spot
Do you recall which spot? Did you use a singular 'v' or more? Did you make sure that the 'sticky spot' repelled the magnets instead of attracting them? Did you try adjusting the distance of the magnets around the wheel?

The problem could very well be the angle that the magnets are moving at. One would be moving in the same direction the wheel rotates in as it approaches the rotor, while the other would be moving against it. One of those movements could have a breaking effect on the rotor, especially depending on how the magnets might rotate. If one side does in fact help preserve the rotor's movement, then it's possible both sides could with two gears making the lever into an 's' shape. Or perhaps the crankshaft design is simply the best after all.

Also, can you please stop with all the ellipses?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on December 06, 2010, 10:53:51 AM
Hi Nihilanth.........I already built that rotor, it didn't work for me,.....with a push it was very pulsating in motion,...but always came to rest in the same spot,.....the closest I've come so far is a lever that rides an outer track with a drive magnet,....the track goes up and down at the right times ,....so the drive magnet attracts during down time ,...and repels during up time....the problem I have is the friction on the bearings....if I could get a maglev track like used on those trains I think it would work.........don't stop trying .......shylo
Magnetic bearings might be better? Anyways, if the rotor cannot overcome the little friction we are having in such a design, shouldn't there be extremely little energy you can possibly take out from the system - if any? If it really was possible to make energy with the torque that is available in the right areas, it should easily overcome the friction (?). The problem is the sticky spot, or in other words the area where the attraction are greatest. This area is the one spot the stator magnet wants to approach. If you use energy from the system itself to remove the stator nearby this greatest attraction area to avoid the sticky spot, the consequences will ofcourse be a stalling motor which stops pretty fast, not only because of friction, but the energy you must use to overcome the sticky spot also.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 10, 2010, 05:10:45 PM
@CLaNZeR, buddy, what page did you post that darn video of the magnetic gun on? Can't find it. Sorry to bother you with this.

EDIT: I got it: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10034.msg265349#msg265349

This is a very important experiment. No wonder why the vid showing a similar magnetic gun has got over 5 mill in hits on youtube:
http://www.google.com/search?q=magnetic+gun&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

That's because such experiments show directly violation of CoE and therefore the imminent possibility to build a perpetuum mobile, producing excess energy continuously (production of excess energy discontinuously has already been proven conclusively).

Think about it - even when having an iron piece get attracted to a magnet and then removed an placed back where it was at the start we observe violation of CoE. When we remove an iron piece stuck to a magnet and remove it at a distance d from the magnet we not only impart potential energy to the iron piece, corresponding to it's position at distance d from the magnet, but also, inevitably, kinetic energy. The potential energy plus the kinetic energy imparted to the iron piece to get it at d will not be compensated when the iron piece travels spontaneously back from d to the surface of the magnet.

For the present analysis, however, we can neglect the kinetic energy imparted to the iron piece considering that we move it away from the magnet at infinitely slow rate. Nevertheless, the experiments with the magnetic gun still demonstrate violation of CoE. Indeed, removing the magnetic sphere from where it finds the minimum of the magnetic potential energy to where  it has its maximum (at infinite distance from the magnet which practically is a couple of centimeters away) will not at all be isotropic direction wise. In certain directions it will be more than in other directions. This has an obvious immediate application to our current project.

In order to take full advantage of the above fact we have to minimize the effect of gravity by balancing out, the way @Roobert33 has done it, the drum. The video of the drum you're presenting shows that your drum isn't balance yet. Mind you, balancing also has to include the cam. That's something we (I'm back in the states and will do as much as possible on this project too) should do first. The goal is to ensure that the excess energy we have gained when the construction reaches it's minimum of magnetic potential energy will be enough to overcome the sticky spot. That is possible theoretically, obviously, and what remains is to put into practice.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: wings on December 13, 2010, 05:50:01 PM
see this

http://web.mac.com/dear_someone/TURXATOR%E2%84%A2/Magnetism.html

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 13, 2010, 06:39:12 PM
see this

http://web.mac.com/dear_someone/TURXATOR%E2%84%A2/Magnetism.html

This has been already discussed and it is pretty trivial -- moving along equipotential surfaces when friction is absent requires no work. No discovery here.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on December 14, 2010, 01:58:49 AM
To Nihilanth sorry for the eratic typing I'm not very puter freindly......It was over 15 years ago when I tried that design ,Iworked on it for about 18 months before giving up tried everything I could think of..........To Low-Q....I thought if I could get the wheel to spin on its' own with just the proper arrangement , then adding electromagnets should be able to power wheel and have power left over for a given load.........the trick is to balance the gravity with magnetic force and momentum.........just my crazy thoughts.....shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on December 14, 2010, 11:19:26 AM
This has been already discussed and it is pretty trivial -- moving along equipotential surfaces when friction is absent requires no work. No discovery here.

Hi OmniBot!
Very funny, like you didn't need several forums and over 20000 replies before you "understood" that....
What a joke...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on December 15, 2010, 02:28:30 AM
To spinn_MP & Omni....could we just please avoid two pages of arguments ,...I'm sorry but I"M on dial-up.........it takes forever to load a page .....photos take forever.....everybody knows' something ,...no sense argueing,........just share ideas,...who knows something somebody says might get your wheels turning the right direction.......just a thought...shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 15, 2010, 05:37:09 AM
@All,

Stefan has just posted a vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9R7IJ-lYjA&feature=player_embedded which looks very much like what I'm trying to do (see: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10034.msg265899#msg265899). However, the guy seems to be doing it without a cam. I wonder if he gives the drum an initial push as the vid seems to indicate. Quite slight, though, as it seems. Would be interesting to have this fellow come to this forum and explain a little bit more. Someone has noted in the discussion section of the vid that the wind down time might be longer had he not put the stator magnets, the latter serving only as brakes. Wonder if that's the case.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 15, 2010, 05:54:59 AM
It appears that although overall it is winding down there are moments of acceleration. Would be interesting to see the whole process from start to finish, possibly without any hint of initial push. You may remember a similar behavior in @xpenzif's experiment. Another thing that makes an impression is that there' a gap between the beginning and the end of the spiral. They don't coincide vertically. Also, the magnets of the rotor are light compared to the rest of the construction and their mass can be neglected leaving only the field to be as their contribution.

As for the experiment I'm doing, I'm in the process of picking up since I came back to the states. Because I couldn't have the main pieces with me (especially the axis) due to these airport regulations and check-ups I have to have it made again here and it takes time. Will have to wait for the cam too. The rest seems easier to recover. That's it folks. The road of the OU researcher isn't strewn with roses.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on December 15, 2010, 11:51:21 PM
To spinn_MP & Omni....could we just please avoid two pages of arguments ,...I'm sorry but I"M on dial-up.........it takes forever to load a page .....photos take forever.....everybody knows' something ,...no sense argueing,........just share ideas,...who knows something somebody says might get your wheels turning the right direction.......just a thought...shylo

@Shilo -OK, fair points, i'm off of this arguments....
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 16, 2010, 01:31:13 PM
I will give you an idea:
you are generating a torque with your will and you need to use part of that to control your magnet bar. Closer to the center of the big wheel you are, less torque you consume from what is generated. Then, to move up/down the bar you dont need to take from the axis on up/down...you can use left/right and in this way you make economy of torque (energy). I dont know if you get the point, but this is the only way...generate something and try to use a small part from that to control your magnet bar. As it is now, is wrong...everything you produce during rotation, you loose because the friction at that radius is way to big. Take the impulse from a point closer to the center, this will change everything.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 16, 2010, 02:02:32 PM
@marianpiti,

I don't get your point. Could you please draw something to make it clearer.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 19, 2010, 02:27:03 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Any progress with your replication?

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 19, 2010, 02:46:50 PM
Marianpiti
Quote:
 Take the impulse from a point closer to the center, this will change everything.
------------------------
Do you have a technique for doing this?

,Or is this a Hunch?

Thanks
Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: marianpiti on December 19, 2010, 03:20:47 PM
I will put here a picture of my model from last year, and you will understand what I mean...but I have some things to do...there is Christmas preparations and my wife dont care about other things for the moment.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: el-tigre on December 21, 2010, 06:10:05 PM
A variation on the v-gate motor.

The pic describes it best. Keep the vgate stationary and rotate 3 equally spaced egg beaters with sets of 3 separately rotating drive mags around it.

When the drive mags reach the sticky spot at the end of the vgate, the drive rotors "step" (rotate) over it and reengage the ramp just past the gate.

I hope someone with an existing apparatus likes this enough to try it, I have no opportunity to build it until next summer.

 ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 21, 2010, 06:47:52 PM
A variation on the v-gate motor.

The pic describes it best. Keep the vgate stationary and rotate 3 equally spaced egg beaters with sets of 3 separately rotating drive mags around it.

When the drive mags reach the sticky spot at the end of the vgate, the drive rotors "step" (rotate) over it and reengage the ramp just past the gate.

I hope someone with an existing apparatus likes this enough to try it, I have no opportunity to build it until next summer.

 ;)

Looks similar to what @Dusty did. You have now to figure out, as @Dusty has to, how to disengage the rotating magnets when over the sticky spot and then engage them past it. This engagement and disengagement has to be done by the machine itself through a clever mechanism. I'm not sure it would be easier to do and with less losses than what @Roobert33 proposes. All these devices require negative feedback and it's a matter of engineering ingenuity to find out the practical solution to that.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: The Observer on December 21, 2010, 07:01:43 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Any progress with your replication?

Bill

Last post from Clanzer was Nov. 30th.
At that point it looked like he was very close to doing a replication (working or not).

3 weeks later, no update... hmm.
Hope all is well Clanzer.

Best Regards,
                     The Observer
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: el-tigre on December 21, 2010, 11:35:24 PM
Thanks for the comments Omni.

The hypothesis for this machine is that the momentum of rotation will automatically carry the egg beaters over the sticky spot.  i.e.   when a rotor magnet approaches the spot, it will tend to slow but the rest of the egg beater style rotor will then be carried past due to momentum which causes the egg beater to rotate on its own independent axle over the sticky spot - which causes the topmost rotor mag to approach the vgate magnets and engage them. (remember how the blades move in those old fashioned hand crank pencil sharpeners)

Continued momentum will then roll (twist) the now trailing rotor mag stalled over the sticky spot up and away which will free the egg beater to rotate back into the drive position for another trip around the vgate.  like a large gear engaging a small gear (planetary gear set  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpQTpLurv0&NR=1   but the center (sun gear) is fixed and there is no exterior ring gear). 

Sorry, not able to animate it myself maybe somebody with a simulator can?  Obviously, the rotor mags should be covered on 3 sides with iron or mu-metal to reduce (redirect) magnetic attraction as they are twisted up and away from the sticky spot. 

Will this action slide and roll the rotor mags and the vgate mags apart (requiring less force) rather than pulling them apart like a cam lifter (requiring maximum force)?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 22, 2010, 03:37:20 AM
Thanks for the comments Omni.

The hypothesis for this machine is that the momentum of rotation will automatically carry the egg beaters over the sticky spot.  i.e.   when a rotor magnet approaches the spot, it will tend to slow but the rest of the egg beater style rotor will then be carried past due to momentum which causes the egg beater to rotate on its own independent axle over the sticky spot - which causes the topmost rotor mag to approach the vgate magnets and engage them. (remember how the blades move in those old fashioned hand crank pencil sharpeners)

Continued momentum will then roll (twist) the now trailing rotor mag stalled over the sticky spot up and away which will free the egg beater to rotate back into the drive position for another trip around the vgate.  like a large gear engaging a small gear (planetary gear set  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpQTpLurv0&NR=1   but the center (sun gear) is fixed and there is no exterior ring gear). 

Sorry, not able to animate it myself maybe somebody with a simulator can?  Obviously, the rotor mags should be covered on 3 sides with iron or mu-metal to reduce (redirect) magnetic attraction as they are twisted up and away from the sticky spot. 

Will this action slide and roll the rotor mags and the vgate mags apart (requiring less force) rather than pulling them apart like a cam lifter (requiring maximum force)?

Now, again, there was a proposal similar to that couple of years ago called 'Grandpaw's Shop Magnet Motor Plans'. The guy was even selling them on ebay and there was a bit of discussion about that. I wonder if anyone actually tried to make a model. Also, there was one Lego proposal on youtube ostensibly showing a working motor based on a similar idea but it was said that it's in fact a video shown in reverse. So, I hate to disappoint you but it seems it has already been around as an idea. The problem in this field is that only very few folks have even the basic tools to make a good model and all that remains are ideas which are basically very similar.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on December 24, 2010, 02:47:56 AM
Hi all ,To mirrian I'm not sure what your saying,...the closer to the axis the more torque is required to turn the wheel?? This has been my expierence. To el-tigre,...momentum alone will not work eventually the magnetic attraction will bring the wheel to a stop.It will jump past the spot but, only until the intial input is used up.I've never used the v-gate though, so I could be wrong...........shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 25, 2010, 02:39:18 PM
Last post from Clanzer was Nov. 30th.
At that point it looked like he was very close to doing a replication (working or not).

3 weeks later, no update... hmm.
Hope all is well Clanzer.

Best Regards,
                     The Observer


Not sure how bad things are in the UK  but I got this message the last few days when trying access the UK site where Clanzer posts his results....

"Sorry Overunity.org.uk is Offline till further notice."

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: perma on December 25, 2010, 04:34:15 PM
 ???
Has anyone noticed that Clanzer's page actually has a one line message on it if you scroll through many blank pages? It simply says... "It is easy when you know how, just do not let others know, you know how."

Sounds a bit ominous...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 25, 2010, 06:22:08 PM
Perma
Quote:
Sounds a bit ominous..............
---------------------------------
Sounds like a happy ending to me![couldn't happen to a better fellow],I hope he gets it out there!

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 25, 2010, 09:42:24 PM
???
Has anyone noticed that Clanzer's page actually has a one line message on it if you scroll through many blank pages? It simply says... "It is easy when you know how, just do not let others know, you know how."

Sounds a bit ominous...

@Perma

Hmmmm maybe he got it working then the MIB closed him down?

I hope all is ok.   

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Sprocket on December 25, 2010, 11:17:10 PM
I was wondering what was up with his site.  Thanks for the "scroll down" hint - didn't think to do that!

Wow, that is indeed a cryptic ominous one-liner...

Quote
It is easy when you know how, just do not let others know, you know how.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 26, 2010, 12:50:28 AM
Merry Christmas all, Good tidings to all your family.

Quote
"It is easy when you know how, just do not let others know, you know how."

Sounds a bit ominous...

This is disturbing news. Has anyone been able to contact Sean aka Clanzer? I also noticed that all his YouTube videos are blocked and all the data in wayback machine for 2009-2010 are gone.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://Overunity.org.uk

Was his flexible track the last thing he was working on?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 26, 2010, 01:17:22 AM
I've Emailed Sean.
Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 26, 2010, 01:19:25 AM
Well, leave the guy alone. It's Christmas time, after all.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 26, 2010, 01:27:55 AM
Omni
I'm not calling him ,I'm e mailing, but now I see it didn't go thru!

Can you try?I see he last visited here 4 days ago,But these fellahs make a good point with the cryptic
message ,pulled you tube acc't and closed forum!

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 26, 2010, 01:30:25 AM
Let's wait till after Christmas and New Year's eve. Everything is dead now.

You see what's happenning at London's Heathrow. That's a refugee camp, not an airport. I was lucky to go through there just before the mess started.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2010, 04:51:46 AM
Merry Christmas everyone.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: The Observer on December 26, 2010, 07:20:45 AM
All,

Clanzer's last video was him going into the shop to make the holder for the wheel.
Now over three weeks ago.

If his vids are truly down, it is very possible censorship is upon him/us.

GodSpeed,
                The Observer

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: gaby de wilde on December 26, 2010, 09:51:42 AM
All,

Clanzer's last video was him going into the shop to make the holder for the wheel.
Now over three weeks ago.

If his vids are truly down, it is very possible censorship is upon him/us.

GodSpeed,
                The Observer

http://www.overunity.org.uk/

 :'(
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 27, 2010, 10:29:18 PM
Did anyone make a copy of Clanzers last Video?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 29, 2010, 03:01:06 AM
Sterlings Article
Quote,             

  According to Steve, Robert told him "it works perfect" and that it has been running continuously for "several weeks".  "It's lighting a light in front of me right now."
 


   http://pesn.com/2010/12/27/9501745_Roober33_V-gate_magnet_motor_for_real/

                             Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 29, 2010, 02:05:40 PM
also word from Clanzer

http://pesn.com/2010/12/27/9501745_Roober33_V-gate_magnet_motor_for_real/

     

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on December 29, 2010, 03:25:33 PM
Thanks for caring guys, but I only wanted a break from it all.

Here is update will explain all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQSHVXmUN-E

Cheers

Sean.
Title: CLaNZeR still not copy the success!
Post by: Arthurs on December 29, 2010, 05:40:14 PM
Recent Internet speculation uproar, as if CLaNZeR have been copied successfully, the original, CLaNZeR still not copy the success, disappointment,,,,,
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 30, 2010, 12:56:17 AM
Thanks for caring guys, but I only wanted a break from it all.

Here is update will explain all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQSHVXmUN-E

Cheers

Sean.
"sold it off to the russians..."   i almost spit out my soda!  thanks for the laugh sean!

congrats on the new job, enjoy your holiday and illegitimi non carborundum.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Rehbock on December 30, 2010, 06:45:25 AM
Hello all, my first message, Merry Christmas to all.

 As I see it with Clanzer's model, one cam in the middle should do the trick, or one cam on each side. One cam on one side will only act as a brake.
Cheers , Rehbock   ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 30, 2010, 07:07:43 AM
Well, @Roobert33's only has one cam. Wonder what the role of the bottom lever is? Also, it seems to me the drum and especially the bar that goes across it (the stator) are too heavy.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Rehbock on December 30, 2010, 07:23:54 AM
the cam must to be right below CG.
 Cheers Rehbock  ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 30, 2010, 07:41:21 AM
What's CG?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Rehbock on December 30, 2010, 09:52:45 AM
sorry, CoG ,Centre of Gravity
Rehbock
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: FatChance!!! on December 30, 2010, 10:45:16 AM
I saw this remark at Youtube backup video of Roobert33's motor.
It sounds very likely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

"Look at 2:29 just when his hand approaches to stop the rotor.
It's clearly visible that the rotor slows down well before his hand touches it.
In my book this means he switched off an external power source a bit to early,
perhaps hidden below the table, and the rotor slows down before he can reach it."
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: zapnic on December 30, 2010, 11:39:09 AM
I saw this remark at Youtube backup video of Roobert33's motor.
It sounds very likely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

"Look at 2:29 just when his hand approaches to stop the rotor.
It's clearly visible that the rotor slows down well before his hand touches it.
In my book this means he switched off an external power source a bit to early,
perhaps hidden below the table, and the rotor slows down before he can reach it."

????
and happy new year you too
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on December 30, 2010, 11:49:33 AM
Sean,

i saw Sterling's suggestions and noticed he left out one thing, which you haven't addressed either.  the spring.

it seems logical to me that the load on the cam should be as light as possible.  with the spring tensioned correctly, it could take at least 90% of the lifting mode.

i can't tell from Roobert33's video, but it maybe the spring is stretched at the top making it pull down.  this would take away any hesitation to the down stroke that might delay the return to the working mode.

either way, the spring, in my mind plays an important part.

my description may not be very good, but at least it's food for thought.

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 30, 2010, 04:21:22 PM
I saw this remark at Youtube backup video of Roobert33's motor.
It sounds very likely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

"Look at 2:29 just when his hand approaches to stop the rotor.
It's clearly visible that the rotor slows down well before his hand touches it.
In my book this means he switched off an external power source a bit to early,
perhaps hidden below the table, and the rotor slows down before he can reach it."


Yeah, maybe. However, can you demonstrate with your own experiment how that powering by an external source can really happen? I wish @LightRider would post here his analysis of the timing and explain it more thoroughly.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 30, 2010, 04:30:51 PM
So Omni,
I'm confused about who this Calloway fellah is.

Is he the man we talked to ?
the one Sterling says "doesn't like him any more"?

If so, we both know he's a really nice fellow with some amazingly cool ideas.
Email his number to Sean,tell him to call him !He has a whole diferent method now [the four stator thingy]

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 30, 2010, 04:34:34 PM
So Omni,
I'm confused about who this Calloway fellah is.

Is he the man we talked to ?
the one Sterling says "doesn't like him any more"?

If so, we both know he's a really nice fellow with some amazingly cool ideas.
Email his number to Sean,tell him to call him !He has a whole diferent method now [the four stator thingy]

Chet

No, I don't think he's the guy. The person we spoke to was some unrelated individual having nothing to do with the video an all. I don't really understand how he came into the picture.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on December 30, 2010, 06:10:19 PM
The cam idea is out!
Why would you expend rotor energy to lift the magnet, when you could simply indent the rotor to achieve the same effect?
The rotor could simply have an indentation that followed the same curve as the came provides by moving the external magnet. Then the magnet could remain stationary! This would conserve wasted energy and increase rotor RPM.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 30, 2010, 06:28:29 PM
The cam idea is out!
Why would you expend rotor energy to lift the magnet, when you could simply indent the rotor to achieve the same effect?
The rotor could simply have an indentation that followed the same curve as the came provides by moving the external magnet. Then the magnet could remain stationary! This would conserve wasted energy and increase rotor RPM.

I don't think the cam idea is the problem. The problem is that the excess energy obtained (which is undeniable) is not quite enough in the usual rendition to do all the work needed to overcome all the energy barriers before the next loop begins. The track is too short. Lengthening the track, on the other hand, will lead to yet additional burden. Some optimum should be sought and the first thing to do, I think, is to lighten all the elements of that rig. You need tweaking in all these devices. Even the magnetic propulsor won't work without fine adjustment, still the more this tricky device.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on December 30, 2010, 07:31:30 PM
I don't think the cam idea is the problem. The problem is that the excess energy obtained (which is undeniable) is not quite enough in the usual rendition to do all the work needed to overcome all the energy barriers before the next loop begins. The track is too short. Lengthening the track, on the other hand, will lead to yet additional burden. Some optimum should be sought and the first thing to do, I think, is to lighten all the elements of that rig. You need tweaking in all these devices. Even the magnetic propulsor won't work without fine adjustment, still the more this tricky device.

But if you provide the same change in distance from the rotor to the magnet by changing the shape of the rotor, then  no additional friction is incurred. Additionally, this removes the RPM limit from increased delay time in moving the stator magnet. More RPM = more power.
I have already computer modeled this problem and found the solution and now working on the project.


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 30, 2010, 07:49:59 PM
Hi Lumen,

Quote
...when you could simply indent the rotor to achieve the same effect?

That is exactly what I believe, watching Laurent's video of him doing it by hand he shows different magnets but his hand is still taking the same path to get rotation. I proposed a fixed deformed cylinder which would have the same path that your hand makes as you pull away from the gate. It would be inverse though as a external wheel will rotate around the fixed center track. You would have more magnets that are getting pulled along the track then those that are being pushed through the gate. This offset of force might be enough to get it to get past gate without relying on external mechanics.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on December 30, 2010, 07:58:34 PM
Hi Lumen,

That is exactly what I believe, watching Laurent's video of him doing it by hand he shows different magnets but his hand is still taking the same path to get rotation. I proposed a fixed deformed cylinder which would have the same path that your hand makes as you pull away from the gate. It would be inverse though as a external wheel will rotate around the fixed center track. You would have more magnets that are getting pulled along the track then those that are being pushed through the gate. This offset of force might be enough to get it to get past gate without relying on external mechanics.

That's correct! Except you don't need to taper in the leading edge of the rotor. The higher leading edge causes a greater attraction and is pulled in.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 30, 2010, 08:25:07 PM

Quote
That's correct! Except you don't need to taper in the leading edge of the rotor. The higher leading edge causes a greater attraction and is pulled in.

I see, that could give you 9 magnets pushing only 3 through the gate, a much better ratio.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: synchro1 on December 30, 2010, 10:18:10 PM
@Clanzer,

Why not try use a pendulum and matching force magnet in attraction to help raise the stator, coupled with a strong spring? The "Hatem magnetic cogging effect", the power generated by two magnets in attraction that pass by sheering, may help power both the spinner and the pendulum. The magents want to chase each other as they sheer apart, and this force helps propel the rotation. A diametric tube stator that can roll freely, may help. Everyone's seen the rolling steel ball magnets and pendulums in perpetual motion already from Finsrud, so we know they're a winning combination.

Best regards,

Synchro
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: synchro1 on December 30, 2010, 10:27:23 PM
Well, @Roobert33's only has one cam. Wonder what the role of the bottom lever is? Also, it seems to me the drum and especially the bar that goes across it (the stator) are too heavy.

That bottem lever looks to me like part of a spring for the stator gate. The spring looks like simply a strong piece of wire that's bent and held down on one end over a fulcrum.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: bastonia on December 31, 2010, 12:37:58 AM
After reading this entire thread and reviewing the video, I am as always, not surprised at the low observation level.

1) The whole point of this design is breaking the sticky point.
2) This accomplished by:
    a) "The Spring" attached to the cam shaft and the metal disc attached to the base.
    b) "The Cam" which the has a downward slop for the spring to pull against and create forward force.
    c) "The Magnet Lever" at the base , 180' degrees to the top Cam hits to add additional momentum.
3) All the suggested solutions do not take any of these objectives into account.
4) Clanzer model has too much friction and cam accuracy to even come close, not to mention the spring.

I wish I had the time and resources to build an actual reproduction, but until I see something that is actually close... I will continue to believe this model has some merit.

Cheers All, happy hunting.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 12:47:19 AM
@bastonia,

As far as I can see, the role of the spring is to position the height of the stator magnet just right when in down position. It's true the spring has a role as everything else does -- the shape and position of the cam, the overall balance to avoid gravity effect, the bottom lever w/ magnet etc. All these are essential in the final tuning and one has to be really patient in doing it. I'll have some more concrete input soon because, as I already mentioned, I have to redo the whole thing when I came back home in the US. Today I received the axis from the machinist and in a few days I'll be moving to Massachusetts for a while to do some more work on this and other devices.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 31, 2010, 03:04:24 AM
Omni
This is Robert Calloway

http://www.callowayengines.com/index.htm

This is the man that we spoke to ,he is the man that said it works,he is also the guy Sterling thinks is Roberto33.

Clanzer should start to correspond with this man ,he's a cool guy
,but he doesn't like Sterling anymore![according to Sterling]
Robert has a new design that Clanzer should get the heads up on.
Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 04:13:49 AM
Omni
This is Robert Calloway

http://www.callowayengines.com/index.htm

This is the man that we spoke to ,he is the man that said it works,he is also the guy Sterling thinks is Roberto33.

Clanzer should start to correspond with this man ,he's a cool guy
,but he doesn't like Sterling anymore![according to Sterling]
Robert has a new design that Clanzer should get the heads up on.
Chet

Oh, I see. So Calloway is from Texas, right? Great. Well, I wonder why he wouldn't come up here in this forum. I forgot to ask him that. And, yea, I remember him saying that he is working on a new design. But why did he abandon the already working one? I think he said he doesn't feel it's practical enough and also he didn't feel he should go public with it. Anyway, it would be great if he decides to pop-up here and explain a thing or two about his working motor (@Roobert33 for sure isn't Calloway, though, because he told me he doesn't even know who that guy is).
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: synchro1 on December 31, 2010, 04:27:41 AM
Here's an idea: Two V track wheels spinning face to face with a more powerfull "Hattem Wedge" array on each one, opposite their stickey spots. The wedges would power past each other In attraction when the stickey spots were on each opposite side, and power past the two outside stators with the same V traction set to the inside of the wider V.

The 6 magnet wedges would accelerate each other by magnetic cogging while the opposite ends were in the stickey position at the twin stators on opposite ends of the wheels. The wedges would help exert V traction on the stators while passing on the other side. The wheels would need counter balanceing.

The twin V tracks may have a Hatem cogging effect of their own. A magnetic shield could be be positioned between the wheels with a window for the Hatem wedge only if the proximity hurt.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on December 31, 2010, 05:12:06 AM
bastonia,

i think one of us is confussed.

CAM n. An eccentric or multiply curved wheel mounted on a rotating shaft, used to produce variable or reciprocating motion in another engaged or contacted part.

this doesn't fit your post

Quote
2) This accomplished by:
    a) "The Spring" attached to the cam shaft and the metal disc attached to the base.
    b) "The Cam" which the has a downward slop for the spring to pull against and create forward force.

i think what you are calling the cam shaft is what others would call the stator magnet lifter assy.  it looks like a couple of pieces of wooden dowel connected to make a right angle.  also the cam shaft is the same as the shaft that the drum with the rotor magnets is mounted on.

the one point i see you make that hasn't been brought out before is the shape of the cam itself.  the following edge descending , if there is spring tenion against the stator magnet lifter assy., would add to the drum rotation.  nice catch!

in my earlier post i suggested the spring was there to make the lifting load of the cam lighter.  now i wonder which would be the better asset.

i think stretching the spring with the cam would take more energy away (no net gain because you have to use energy from the cam to stretch it) than allowing the stator magnet lifter assy.'s weight to compress the spring (so it could lessen the load for the cam.  if assy. is 10 units and spring force is 9 units when compressed = 1 unit to lift assy.).

a small mod might help.  make the attachment of the spring to the base adjustable.  instead of a fixed point, use a threaded rod thru the base.  just a thought.

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roberval on December 31, 2010, 12:46:23 PM
 have been reading this thread with great interest, there may be similarities to my design.

 when comparing, the best description about how rob 33's wheel could work, is due to a balance with the cam system.
 When starting the wheel its at the balance point (highest lobe) of the cam.
 At the starting point the cam receives a downwards force, which aids in driving the wheel, which increases as the bar slides down the lowest lobe of the cam, the lower gizmo has a similar affect, this would be repelling,

 not including friction, this should balance out, so the resistance should be the same as the output of the cam.
 think about engine overhead cams, takes force to pass the high point of the lobe, once past this point it then powers to the low point.
 
If the wheel can accelerate at a greater rate than the acceleration suplied by the cam device, there should be enough momentum to overcome the resistance of the cam.

 what I'm working on has a big difference, other devices can be used instead of magnets.
 the relationship between a cam + another device is important, the magnets supply a force, without needing the use of a v track e.t.c. as the attraction is not used the same way as a v-track for rotation.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: markdansie on December 31, 2010, 01:27:11 PM
@Roberval
many thanks..do you have a digram or a video...it makes sense
Mark
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 31, 2010, 03:07:05 PM
What do you think about using four magnets driver to overcome one stcky spot?

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on December 31, 2010, 03:34:46 PM
Jesus,
I don't know about these things,however that
doesn't stop me from talking about them [only kidding]

When we spoke to Robert Calloway [Texas]
He said his new design would be/is four stators "rotating" INSIDE the stationary V gate.

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 31, 2010, 03:38:52 PM
@ramset

Maybe his idea is better than mine. The goal is to get the problem solved.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Staffman on December 31, 2010, 03:50:16 PM
I've given the 4 stator idea some though. Each stator should be able to be lifted by the 'cam'. If the rotor was laid out horizontally, instead of vertically, springs could push the stators back in. This way, three are pulling at all times, while the cam lifts one of the stators.

Below is a pic showing what i'm talking about. I am artistically challenged, so no remarks about the quality of the pic. 

As this design calls for a horizontal setup, this is the top view.
The red things are the springs, the grey dots are the magnets, the blue thing is the cam, the large circle is the rotor. V track and magnet supports not shown. 

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on December 31, 2010, 04:28:56 PM
@ Staffman . Great idea but why stop at four?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: LightRider on December 31, 2010, 04:46:24 PM

Yeah, maybe. However, can you demonstrate with your own experiment how that powering by an external source can really happen? I wish @LightRider would post here his analysis of the timing and explain it more thoroughly.

Quote from: FatChance!!! on 2010-12-30, 04:45:16
    I saw this remark at Youtube backup video of Roobert33's motor.
    It sounds very likely.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

    "Look at 2:29 just when his hand approaches to stop the rotor.
    It's clearly visible that the rotor slows down well before his hand touches it.
    In my book this means he switched off an external power source a bit to early,
    perhaps hidden below the table, and the rotor slows down before he can reach it."

@Omnibus: explanation of the analysis coming and special attention will be given at 2:29.

Regards,
LightRider


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 04:49:08 PM
@Omnibus: explanation of the analysis coming and special attention will be given at 2:29.

Regards,
LightRider

How does this show on your graph? I don't quite understand what you've done there.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on December 31, 2010, 04:58:31 PM
Another video showing how small a movement you actually need.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?527-Flexible-V-Track/page2

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBy0D6BaFvs
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on December 31, 2010, 05:37:57 PM
@Clanzer .You are already so near with this we can SMELL it. On the video it looks like if you replaced your thumb with an adjusting screw , It would run as it is ! . Also you need to re-shape the cam , The bit that does the work has too steep a slope and is tending to push the magnet sideways instead of just lifting it . Put a little grease on this part of the cam . Another possibility is to mount the moving magnet on one end of a see saw , with an adjustable counterweight on the other end .  Hey man , what if it actually WORKS . The cat is out of the bag then .... Aren't you exited?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on December 31, 2010, 05:51:02 PM

sean,

just a reminder....

replication •reproduction: the act of making copies

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 06:03:39 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Good job, mate. Wonder what you think about the bottom lever w/ magnet? Looking forward to seeing this darn thing spinning and spinning and spinning ... All the best for the New Year, a lot of health and successful experiments.

That goes also to everybody else: Happy New 2011 Year.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: LightRider on December 31, 2010, 06:27:02 PM
How does this show on your graph? I don't quite understand what you've done there.

@Omnibus: (Here's a quick outline of the situation at 2:29) I'll be back later for explanation.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roberval on December 31, 2010, 06:36:37 PM
markdansie
  cant say much about my idea, except it involves an unusual type of cam.


 tried magnet type tracks many years ago, in fact one of my first ideas was similar to rob 33's idea, of using a cam to pass the sticky spot, it failed.
 now when comparing to rob33's wheel, its easy to see why it might have failed.
 
 first if this wheel can not run using 1 V track, it wont run if extra tracks are added, each track will cause the same problem..

 If you find a single device actually works, only then would adding more be useful to increase the overall power.
 the part of the cam that makes contact with the bar should be symmetrical, so the energy lost due to the lift is regained when coming down.
 
 same that happens when turning an overhead cam pulley, so the spring is important for the downhill run, the spring would not be setup in such a way that it reduces the resistance when lifting, this would result in the loss of stored energy. Need to find the sweet spot.
 
 The weight of the overall bar mechanism is important as well, if too heavy for the gain in speed, the wheel stops.
 
 a heavy wheel probably wont get up to speed to lift the bar as well.
    using more v tracks on the one wheel reduces the time it takes to gain momentum, so if using 4, it needs to get up to speed in a 1/4 of the time.
 the width is important for acceleration, too narrow would be too slow, too wide then there is more weight in the bar and wheel.
 
 if deciding to rotate the stators and using the same type of cam concept as rob 33,  the stator would need to be balanced and as light or lighter than the wheel, a new problem is caused, as now centrifugal force becomes a factor on the bar, this would require stronger springs, which then causes more problems.
There are many catch 22 situations in this build.
 The end result would make a good desk ornament.


 if it gains enough momentum to overcome the friction it could probably work, as all the other actions basically balance out.
 where it needs the highest momentum is just before hitting the cam,
 may be worth trying to start the track with a narrower v, as the spring gives it push at the start, e.g 50% of the width at 270 degrees,then go to full width the last 90 degrees before the bar.

  just a few observations
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: CLaNZeR on December 31, 2010, 06:59:28 PM
@CLaNZeR,

Good job, mate. Wonder what you think about the bottom lever w/ magnet? Looking forward to seeing this darn thing spinning and spinning and spinning ... All the best for the New Year, a lot of health and successful experiments.

That goes also to everybody else: Happy New 2011 Year.

Hi Omni

Have commented on the bottom magnet over on the thread I posted above.

Have a great New Year that end and lets hope some new claims come along that are more detailed and bring us closer to something.

Last video for 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArzqkXmDFVo

I am off out to enjoy a smack up meal with family and maybe a few drinks to see the New Year in !

Happy New Year to all the usual FE/OU community guys.

Cya in 2011

Cheers

Sean.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 31, 2010, 07:03:14 PM
I've given the 4 stator idea some though. Each stator should be able to be lifted by the 'cam'. If the rotor was laid out horizontally, instead of vertically, springs could push the stators back in. This way, three are pulling at all times, while the cam lifts one of the stators.

Below is a pic showing what i'm talking about. I am artistically challenged, so no remarks about the quality of the pic. 

As this design calls for a horizontal setup, this is the top view.
The red things are the springs, the grey dots are the magnets, the blue thing is the cam, the large circle is the rotor. V track and magnet supports not shown.

Staffman,   It looks very promising.  I like the idea.   Nice art work.   

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roberval on December 31, 2010, 07:21:26 PM
 When further studying the movement of the top arm, it bounces.
 If the magnet was attracting it shouldn't bounce as it does.
 the only explanation i can give is that the top bar repels,

 perhaps the design has been purposely built to deceive, as the design of the top bar looks as if it attracts, it may only contain a small central magnet, and use an extension spring.
 Unsure about the lower device, unless its not magnetic and shows it performs a little work.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: happyfunball on December 31, 2010, 07:22:10 PM
@Clanzer .You are already so near with this we can SMELL it. On the video it looks like if you replaced your thumb with an adjusting screw , It would run as it is ! . Also you need to re-shape the cam , The bit that does the work has too steep a slope and is tending to push the magnet sideways instead of just lifting it . Put a little grease on this part of the cam . Another possibility is to mount the moving magnet on one end of a see saw , with an adjustable counterweight on the other end .  Hey man , what if it actually WORKS . The cat is out of the bag then .... Aren't you exited?

Are you serious? Clanzer's admirable attempt at a v-gate SMOT shows the obvious fact that it does not work. Not even close.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 08:29:57 PM
@ramset,

I'm back to this point -- I don't think there's a reason to contact Calloway. He hasn't done it at all. It's @Roobert33 who is important here. It would be worthwhile to talk to Calloway if he is @Roobert33. If he isn't I don't see any reason whatsoever for talking to him.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 08:35:09 PM
@Omnibus: (Here's a quick outline of the situation at 2:29) I'll be back later for explanation.

Thanks, @LightRider. Looking forward to your explanation.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 09:32:41 PM
@LightRider,

So, on the ordinate you have plotted the lumens while the abscissa is time in seconds and every point indicates one measurement of lumens at that particular time, right? Does the zero time on the abscissa correspond to the zeroth second in the vid?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 31, 2010, 10:38:20 PM
When using four magnets as driver the idea is to not use the cam.
Instead all the magnets should be at the specific height less a few milimeters that the cam raises the magnet.

That way the cam is eliminated and there is always a good magnetic field around the rotor.

I could be wrong though.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 10:44:27 PM
When using four magnets as driver the idea is to not use the cam.
Instead all the magnets should be at the specific height less a few milimeters that the cam raises the magnet.

That way the cam is eliminated and there is always a good magnetic field around the rotor.

I could be wrong though.

Jesus

Every time you try to solve the sticky spot problem with adding more and more magnets you get deeper and deeper into the dead-end. Therefore, the device should be kept as simple and streamlined as possible.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 31, 2010, 11:03:09 PM
What I think is that the sweet spot  is a few milimiters below the full height of the lifted magnet by the cam.

Finding that sweet spot and instead of four magnets that are a balanced field, use three or five magnets all at that same sweet spot height  around the rotor to create an unbalanced field and there will be two or four magnets against one always.

 The rotor spinning inside the magnetic field.

And the cam eliminated.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 11:10:03 PM
What I think is that the sweet spot  is a few milimiters below the full height of the lifted magnet by the cam.

Finding that sweet spot and instead of four magnets that are a balanced field, use three or five magnets all at that same sweet spot height  around the rotor to create an unbalanced field and there will be two or four magnets against one always.

The the rotor spinning inside the magnetic field.

And the cam eliminated.

Jesus

Now, that you have to show in an experiment. Mind you, anytime you have magnetic force pushing one way, there's always a countacting froce obstructing it. It's easy to fool oneself (I've done it many times) in thinking that a disbalance can be achieved purely magnetically. I doubt it. You have to show it to have me back in that rut. What has become obvious already is that if such motor is to work there should be negative feedback or assistance by gravity. Wish the theory of that were as clear as the theory behind the magnetic propulsor which, if nothing else, is the definitive demonstration for the violation of CoE.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on December 31, 2010, 11:14:46 PM
A motor with a negative feedback was the Walter Torbay motor and this one (@Roobert33's) is even better because it's simple to build and tweak. I wonder what @xpenzif's was because, remember, his was somewhat inclined and that may make it gravity-assisted. As for Prendev, that would be a magnet motor of the type you're talking about --  purely magnetic motor utilizing unbalanced forces. That would be great if such a twhing can be achieve but It seems to me it would be more difficult than the negative-feedback type of a motor.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 01, 2011, 02:06:19 AM
I cannot spend money on magnets and experiments. I can barely pay my bills.

I apologize if I said something wrong.

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: LightRider on January 01, 2011, 04:27:27 AM
@LightRider,

So, on the ordinate you have plotted the lumens while the abscissa is time in seconds and every point indicates one measurement of lumens at that particular time, right? Does the zero time on the abscissa correspond to the zeroth second in the vid?

(@FatChance!!!)
@Omnibus:

Ordinate (y-axis) => "the lumens" and Abscissa (x-axis) => "time"
(but as you noted in the analysis, the start time is not synchronized with the original video frame time (this could be revised in a future analysis if necessary)...
(the time is a "relative time" with the video ... every second of the video equal one second in the analysis)


The primary objective of this second analysis was to determine if the engine slows down at 2:29 before being touch. (question raised by FatChance!!!)

Every bump represents the "cam" crossing the surveillance zone (RGB+lumens). Or in other words each bump represents one full turn.

So the distance between two bumps is the time to make a complete revolution.

We can deduce two things, the RPM for each full turn and the constancy of the speed between each complete turn.

This analysis shows the last 6 full turn. 5 of them have a speed of 125 RPM and the last one is 88 RPM.

(60sec) / (0.48sec per turn) = 125 RPM.
(60sec) / (0.68sec per turn) = 88 RPM (last turn)

The image in my previous message (repost here) represents the moment just before hand contact. This "moment" comes during the last full turn (as we see in the image), which explains the 88 RPM.

Thanks,
LightRider

ps.: the image is reposted to facilitate understanding.


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 05:20:32 AM
Great analysis @LightRider. Thanks a lot. It confirms quantitatively the observation made by @FatChance!!!. This is an example of the high quality research we should all be doing both when claiming an effect and when criticizing a claim. All the best for the coming 2011 year and hope your next fine analyses will confirm OU. Once again, Happy and Prosperous New 2011 Year to everybody.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 05:29:18 AM
Of course, this last anomalous time still begs the question as to what caused it? If that anomaly indicates that those rotations were faked then  how was that achieved?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: LightRider on January 01, 2011, 07:08:24 AM
I saw this remark at Youtube backup video of Roobert33's motor.
It sounds very likely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssBAb6EzM4

"Look at 2:29 just when his hand approaches to stop the rotor.
It's clearly visible that the rotor slows down well before his hand touches it.
In my book this means he switched off an external power source a bit to early,
perhaps hidden below the table, and the rotor slows down before he can reach it."


From the analysis, speed remains constant (125 RPM) until the end...

...at that time "the end" (the last cycle) the speed is reduced to 88 RPM probably because of the contact with his hand.

Thank you,

Happy New Year 2011 to all,
That the collective genius opens our eyes to new avenues.

LightRider
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 08:02:47 AM
From the analysis, speed remains constant (125 RPM) until the end...

...at that time "the end" (the last cycle) the speed is reduced to 88 RPM probably because of the contact with his hand.

Thank you,

Happy New Year 2011 to all,
That the collective genius opens our eyes to new avenues.

LightRider

Could you please indicate at what point on the graph does the contact with the hand occur? I remained with the impression that the sixth full turn (the anomalous one) took place before the contact with the hand and that confirms @FatChance!!!'s observation.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: LightRider on January 01, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
Could you please indicate at what point on the graph does the contact with the hand occur? I remained with the impression that the sixth full turn (the anomalous one) took place before the contact with the hand and that confirms @FatChance!!!'s observation.

@Omnibus :
The contact with the hand occur => at the largest pink dot inside the red circle. Accuracy is approximately to hundredths of seconds.
So, the contact with the hand occur exactly in the middle of the last complete revolution.

- the last complete revolution lasted 680 millisecond (not even a second)
- before the last cycle no noticeable slowdown ... a constant speed of 125 RPM

In very clear words, the slowdown seems appears exactly when the engine is touched.

I regret that my words have misled you, I hope it is more understandable now.

Many thanks,
LightRider
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 10:10:32 AM
@LightRider,

Thanks for the clarification. That's a complete turnaround from what I understood initially. Honestly, when @FatChance!!! mentioned his observation I watched the vid at 2:29 and somehow it appered to me that he may be right. I was even thinking of extracting that short piece and having it looped so that I can observe it over and over again. You came up with a real solution, however, and your superb quantitative data put that point to rest. Of course, I'd like to hear also what @FatChance!!! thinks about this. Thanks againg for the great job.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 01, 2011, 03:21:51 PM
Go to http:Peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Kedron:Eden_Project:Permanent_Magnet_Energy_gain .
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 01, 2011, 03:36:53 PM
Try this one

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Kedron:Eden_Project:Permanent_Magnet_Energy_Gain
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 01, 2011, 04:35:58 PM
@nievsoliveras . Many thanks , my friend for help with that link . I am no computer genius . By visiting the said site , you will see experimental proof from two independent researchers , That if two magnets approach each other in attraction , they yield more energy than is necessary to separate them along a different path . The overunity is between 13 and 20% . Isn't this exactly what is happening in the machine we are discussing? . That is why I believe , that with very careful construction and tuning , it will work .
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: LightRider on January 01, 2011, 06:58:44 PM
@LightRider,

Thanks for the clarification. That's a complete turnaround from what I understood initially. Honestly, when @FatChance!!! mentioned his observation I watched the vid at 2:29 and somehow it appered to me that he may be right. I was even thinking of extracting that short piece and having it looped so that I can observe it over and over again. You came up with a real solution, however, and your superb quantitative data put that point to rest. Of course, I'd like to hear also what @FatChance!!! thinks about this. Thanks againg for the great job.

@Omnibus,
I must confess that the personal reason to do this analysis is that I also saw the same thing than both of you (at 2:29).
thanks for the compliment, we must remain open to the possibility of another logical explanation.

These results are very far from affirming or deny the veracity of the phenomenon,
until then, I remain confident but with a critical mind.

Cheers,
LightRider
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 08:25:37 PM
@LightRider,

Don't get me wrong. It goes without saying that unless someone (better many more) makes the device and shows it turning on its own, the reality of this device as an OU machine cannot be claimed.

Nevertheless, it's interesting to discuss your findings more.
First, I'd like to make sure -- the picture shown in http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10034.msg269139#msg269139 icorresponds to 2:29s in the vid, that is, corresponds to the large pink dot in your graph, correct?

Also, regading the fine structure of the curve -- there are practically two regions (aside from the short ending anomalous one) showing two different lumen levels. One may argue that there's a short third in between but that I don't think is substantial. These different levels are because the guy turns the rig at one point, right? Then, the fluctuations in the lumen levels. They reflect the movements of the experimenter around the rig and probably the imperfections of a youtube vid, I take it. It may be argued that some of the minimums  in these levels do not reflect what they are expected to be from the maximums. But, I guess, it also has something to do with motions in the room around the rig. Of course, these motions in the room by no means can be the cause of the spinning of the rotor so regarding the main effect the said fluctuations can be ignored. That's just a curiosity which also shows that there's no looping or messing with the vid in view of the randomness of the fluctuations. That looping was suggested by somebody as a proof the vid is fake but your results show looping is out.

And, again, how can that spinning of the rotor be faked, if one insists this isn't the real deal?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: FatChance!!! on January 01, 2011, 09:02:38 PM
Of course, I'd like to hear also what @FatChance!!! thinks about this.
Good analyse. It made me look at the sequence over and over and actually
Lightrider can be right about this. It does seems like it could be the tip of his
finger that barely touches the backside of the drum and brakes the rotation.
But one has to look really closely to see it.

And, again, how can that spinning of the rotor be faked, if one insists this isn't the real deal?
Simply by placing a large synced & pulsed electromagnet or spinning wheel with an attached NdFeb
below the table of the V-track motor. The pulsing EM or wheel noise is covered by the music.
The bottom magnet on the lever is perhaps used as pulse indicator & picked up by a hall element.
This type of scam have been used numerous of times before by other fakers.

One thing is obvious though, he turns the V-track around but never moves it from its location or
lift it of the table. If serious he could easily have lifted the V-track gently around while spinning.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 09:27:18 PM
. ...
This type of scam have been used numerous of times before by other fakers.

I know of only one attempt using electromagnetic field. That was shown by someone with the handle @RunningBare as an attempt to debunk something, probably Mylow. It was so ridiculous, however, that it would have been funny if it were not pathetic. Coluld you please give a link to another scam with rotating electromagnetic field?

There is one more (probably) fake vid that I know of -- that with the Lego motor. Someone claimed that the video is shown in reverse. That method cannot apply to the video at hand.

Mylow's also has been said to have been debunked by observig a fishing line in one of the vids. That also isn't convincing enough. The rotating magnetic field scam should also be applicable there but the question still remains. How is that done? Same thing with the Whipmag, if we believe the lie it was turning for 7 hours without external energy source (but in fact has been powered by a hidden electromagnetic field turning).

When @Roobert33 wrote to Stefan that he has faked the effect with a coil in his shirt and apparently appologized to the community, he in fact made an even greater disservice to it. If he were really honest he should have also shown how he exactly did the trick. I'd really like to see how this motor can be driven by a coil in one's shirt.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 01, 2011, 10:37:19 PM
OMG, ffs, the OmniBot hyper-spamming service is still active?
What a novelty, 2011 is starting with the OmniBot's "wisdom"...

Sorry, just noticed... Ahh, it's the OU site...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 10:41:59 PM
OMG, ffs, the OmniBot hyper-spamming service is still active?
What a novelty, 2011 is starting with the OmniBot's "wisdom"...

Sorry, just noticed... Ahh, it's the OU site...

spam
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on January 01, 2011, 11:00:26 PM
hi,

this is for you "mechanically inclined" to tell this "mechanically challenged" guy if he is right or wrong.

thanks!

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 01, 2011, 11:02:39 PM
Jeeez, the retard is still awake?
Let me guess, he probably tried to torture you with his "knowledge" over the New Year's eve, too?

Some things will never change...

Hey bot, someone mailed that "white paper" of yours to me...
Any comments?


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Honk on January 01, 2011, 11:06:02 PM
The faking seems plausible. I could easily do the electromagnetic pulse trick.
When I tested the big solenoids Em's for the split spiral motor I was shocked to feel
all kind of iron tools vibrating strongly by the pulses, up to several feet's distance.
If I placed anything of iron close by then it jumped around like crazy.

Just put one of those babies under the vtrack and sync it...no shit.
It would spin like crazy, totally in grip of the Em fields.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 11:32:30 PM
Jeeez, the retard is still awake?
Let me guess, he probably tried to torture you with his "knowledge" over the New Year's eve, too?

Some things will never change...

Hey bot, someone mailed that "white paper" of yours to me...
Any comments?

spam
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 01, 2011, 11:35:33 PM
The faking seems plausible. I could easily do the electromagnetic pulse trick.
When I tested the big solenoids Em's for the split spiral motor I was shocked to feel
all kind of iron tools vibrating strongly by the pulses, up to several feet's distance.
If I placed anything of iron close by then it jumped around like crazy.
 
Just put one of those babies under the vtrack and sync it...no shit.
It would spin like crazy, totally in grip of the Em fields.

Well, I'd be quite interested to see the particular rotor spin under these circumstances. Can you do it and post a vid?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Honk on January 02, 2011, 12:54:01 AM
Well, I'd be quite interested to see the particular rotor spin under these circumstances. Can you do it and post a vid?
That I could not do, as I have neither any vtrack or time to build such design.
By doing it "easily" was if I had the vtrack and all I had to do was hook up the EM beneath it.
I only wanted to inform you that it's fully possible to influence magnets and iron by an EM from quite a distance.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 12:58:15 AM
That I could not do, as I have neither any vtrack or time to build such design.
I only wanted to inform you that it's fully possible to influence magnets and iron by an EM from quite a distance.

Ni, i don't believe it's fully possible. I can start believing it only after you manage to show it. Until then yours are only words with no backing whatsoever.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Honk on January 02, 2011, 01:06:15 AM
Then please stay in the unbelieving state of mind.
I know this for sure after all my time and testing of many setups on the split spiral motor.
And I have no intention to to build the vtrack as I'm completely sure its a trick.

You have shown considerable effort in the Steorn replication. Very admirable.
How about reaching inside for some more of that effort and give the vtrack a try for yourself?
It's a simple enough build, if you have the time and skill.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 01:17:05 AM
Then please stay in the unbelieving state of mind.
I know this for sure after all my time and testing of many setups on the split spiral motor.
And I have no intention to to build the vtrack as I'm completely sure its a trick.

You have shown considerable effort in the Steorn replication. Very admirable.
How about reaching inside for some more of that effort and give the vtrack a try for yourself?
It's a simple enough build, if you have the time and skill.

It's not that I'm on the unbelieving side. Simply, what you're conjecturing is unjustified. Making a rotating drum w/ embedded magnets is a pretty simple exercise to complain you can't do it. As for myself, these days I'm going back to Massachusetts to do some more work on this. Here in New York City there are no conditions to do any such work, unfortunately.

So, for that turning drum, all you need to have is a an axis (non-magnetic, preferably), a can of Coke which you can cut with scissors and affix it to the axis and a bunch of small magnets. You can have them in pairs on the inside and the outside. This is a really inexpensive stuff and I might order it for you and send it to you to show me how this can turn by the electromagnetic fields your coils generate. That will be a contribution if the device at hand can be debunked that easily.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 02, 2011, 01:23:20 AM
What a pretender you are, OmniBot....

The shameless bastard....



Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 01:24:10 AM
What a pretender you are, OmniBot....

The shameless bastard....

spam
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 01:25:59 AM
You don't really need V-track. That's a distraction. Take look couple of pages back how I'm doing it -- just a spiral of magnets.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 02, 2011, 01:46:40 AM
"New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33" is a fake.

I thought this was quite obvious from the beginning?



Jeeez, have you all been born just yesterday? Well, Congrats!






Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 01:52:48 AM
"New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33" is a fake.

I thought this was quite obvious from the beginning?



Jeeez, have you all been born just yesterday? Well, Congrats!

spam
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on January 02, 2011, 02:18:47 AM
I never thought a "V" track device could work, but after a week of computer modeling I think I found something!
Still doing some refinement to pinpoint the exact reason for the gain, but I can say that if that video is actually working, those are steel and not magnets on the rotor. The stator magnet poles are front to back and not side to side.

Something happens when the steel is exposed to both stator poles on the "V" track. It seems to have nearly the same attraction but not the usual "V" track interaction.



Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 02:37:33 AM
I never thought a "V" track device could work, but after a week of computer modeling I think I found something!
Still doing some refinement to pinpoint the exact reason for the gain, but I can say that if that video is actually working, those are steel and not magnets on the rotor. The stator magnet poles are front to back and not side to side.

Something happens when the steel is exposed to both stator poles on the "V" track. It seems to have nearly the same attraction but not the usual "V" track interaction.

That should be interesting to see. If you recall @xpenzif's "screw motor" rotor was all steel. In this case it doesn't matter and, ike I said, V-track is only a distraction. It has no significance at all. The same effect is achieved by, say, a spiral of magnets. The concept is pretty trivial. A lot of tweaking is needed in any of these well-known cases, though.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 02:42:04 AM
Two years ago or so I was doing it with a triangular iron sheet. Same thing. Haven't posted it but I might as well do so when I go to Massachusetts sometime next or the following week. We'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on January 02, 2011, 03:34:49 AM
That should be interesting to see. If you recall @xpenzif's "screw motor" rotor was all steel. In this case it doesn't matter and, ike I said, V-track is only a distraction. It has no significance at all. The same effect is achieved by, say, a spiral of magnets. The concept is pretty trivial. A lot of tweaking is needed in any of these well-known cases, though.

No, this is related to a "V" track! Let me explain what the data shows. If two metal cylinders are close together on a "V" track (like at the start), they become magnetized in the same direction. This causes them to interfere with each other and not become as magnetic as the next set further away from each other. So the stator is attracted always more to the set further away.

Now as they pass under the stator, they change polarity and the situation continues. But under the stator, the cylinders are magnetized horizontally which they do not want to do so the stator can be easily pulled away. Unlike a conventional "V" track with all magnets where the stator continually becomes more attractive as the track widens.

Anyway, the attraction is based on a totally different concept of operation than a "V" track with magnets on the rotor.

 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on January 02, 2011, 03:44:24 AM
Lumen,
Funny thing,Some of the fellahs in the beginning of this thread said those were not magnets in the V,but metal slugs?

Chet
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 04:07:40 AM
No, this is related to a "V" track! Let me explain what the data shows. If two metal cylinders are close together on a "V" track (like at the start), they become magnetized in the same direction. This causes them to interfere with each other and not become as magnetic as the next set further away from each other. So the stator is attracted always more to the set further away.

Now as they pass under the stator, they change polarity and the situation continues. But under the stator, the cylinders are magnetized horizontally which they do not want to do so the stator can be easily pulled away. Unlike a conventional "V" track with all magnets where the stator continually becomes more attractive as the track widens.

Anyway, the attraction is based on a totally different concept of operation than a "V" track with magnets on the rotor.

You know, that's very interesting if that's the case and has to be studied more. Several months ago, however, I made a drum with steel cylinders just like the ones in @Roobert33's case and the the result was pretty mediocle, compared to the case when I replaced the V-track steel cylinders with agnets in a spiral. As I see things now, if there's any promise it would be with that magnetic spiral rather than with the V-track. However, your observation may have some merit and probably I should reconsider my current position. That's why I'm looking forward to seeing your model and results.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 04:18:11 AM
I should mention how my spiral rotor works. At the beginning of the spiral the stator N is facing the spiral N and repels it. As the rotor turns, the repelling decreases but the attraction increases and this is the reason for further truning of the drum. That happy conditions would end at the minimum of the magnetic potential energy but this is where the cam kicks in and causes the rotor and the stator to distance themselves. That moving apart has a significant effect even if it is slight because the force of magnetic interaction decreases with the cube of the distance. So when tweaked successfully the excess energy acquired during the turning of the drum will be sufficient to pull apart the stator from the rotor so that the sticky spot can be overcome and a new roind of turning to begin. That's typical negative feedback. So, that's the whole idea in a few words. Would be interesting to see if you can model that.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on January 02, 2011, 02:25:08 PM
@ Clanzer   

Nice work... Looks like you have most of the Kinks worked out with the cam.   I am looking forward to seeing your replication with the stator magnets installed.

Take a look at Clanzer's latest video.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?527-Flexible-V-Track/page2

  Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 02:43:10 PM
Can't see it on the iPad, unfortunately.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on January 02, 2011, 02:58:20 PM

back to the subject ....

"New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33"

REPLY 399

Quote
hi,

this is for you "mechanically inclined" to tell this "mechanically challenged" guy if he is right or wrong.

thanks!

tom

from the lack of replies, i guess i have a "communication challenge" too.  i think i see where it is.

the statement about adding a push rod.....
of course segment b has to be changed a bit.  it would really be a cam with a 1 unit rise (lobe).  the lobe would push the rod (as the shaft turned) which would then raise the stator magnet assy.  the dwell on the cam would dictate how long the assy. stayed raised, just as the height of the lobe would dictate how high.

the low point/s of this cam would be the shaft surface.  if the low point/s were 1 unit higher than the shaft, you would have a longer circumference.  of course now the high point would be 2 units from the shaft surface and make a 5 to 2 ratio.

anybody still on topic, please jump in.

tom

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on January 02, 2011, 03:20:22 PM
back to the subject ....

"New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33"

REPLY 399

from the lack of replies, i guess i have a "communication challenge" too.  i think i see where it is.

the statement about adding a push rod.....
of course segment b has to be changed a bit.  it would really be a cam with a 1 unit rise (lobe).  the lobe would push the rod (as the shaft turned) which would then raise the stator magnet assy.  the dwell on the cam would dictate how long the assy. stayed raised, just as the height of the lobe would dictate how high.

the low point/s of this cam would be the shaft surface.  if the low point/s were 1 unit higher than the shaft, you would have a longer circumference.  of course now the high point would be 2 units from the shaft surface and make a 5 to 2 ratio.

anybody still on topic, please jump in.

tom

Tom,  it looks like your are on track with making use of better leverage.  The problem that I see with the cam being significanty closer to the shaft is that it makes it more difficult to make adjustments.
There may be other ways to use leverage.  I will see if I can make a mock-up and show you what I mean. 

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 02, 2011, 07:06:55 PM
@tbird re cam . Here is my opinion . Suppose that due to the requirements of the system , the total lifting has to happen during 10degrees of shaft rotion . To achieve this with a smaller cam , the lobe or ramp on the cam needs to be much steeper and shorter . with the big cam the ramp is longer and less steep . The amount of work done is the same in both cases and happens in the same amount of time . Imagine biking up two hills . Both are 100 metres high . one is short and steep , the other is longer and more gradual . Both have to be climbed in the same length of time . The amount of work done is about the same in each case . That is my gut feeling .
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 02, 2011, 11:00:07 PM
@ Clanzer   

Nice work... Looks like you have most of the Kinks worked out with the cam.   I am looking forward to seeing your replication with the stator magnets installed.

Take a look at Clanzer's latest video.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?527-Flexible-V-Track/page2

  Bill

Just saw it on my laptop. You're getting there, brother. Good luck.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on January 03, 2011, 03:14:28 AM
OK here is my attempt to use a Leveraged Approach to solve the problem.   I am waiting on magnets... should be here by Friday.    Anyway,   there is a lever at the bottom to lift the stator arm on the right side.  It provides a little over 4 to 1 leverage.  The cam is on the wheels left side.  I know I need to make a better cam but I just wanted to show how I visioned a lever to do the lifting.   I moves the stator up about 5 to 6 mm but very easily.  I put a couple steel bearings on the stator to add some weight for testing . 

Bill   
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on January 03, 2011, 03:16:49 AM
Front view of my test rig.   

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: McGiver30 on January 03, 2011, 03:49:08 AM
I would certainly agree with the last test rig posted on here for a chance of success. I have thought the exact same principle. I would change one thing and add one thing. I would make the rotor much larger and I would add a weight on shaft to help momentum to get past the cam lift/sticky spot.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 03, 2011, 05:59:25 AM
Good build, @maw2432. Waiting to see how it will behave with the magnets. Good luck to you too.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on January 03, 2011, 11:48:55 AM
Good build, @maw2432. Waiting to see how it will behave with the magnets. Good luck to you too.

Thanks Omnibus,   

I was thinking that it may work better in repulsion mode.  Just need enough weight on the stator to keep it pushing the rotor until it gets to the sticky spot and then lift the stator with leverage.   This way I only use the weight of stator to be moved.  With attraction,  I need to move the combined force of attraction (at the greatest attraction time) and the weight of the stator.   Hard to make small adjustments with an attraction design.   With repulsion,  I may only need to add some weight on the stator to until it is enough to do the job.   Your thoughts?

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 03, 2011, 12:04:26 PM
It would be great if you can make it work in repulsion mode only but somehow it is not always possible to avoid attraction. Probably you saw on the previous page my rig's idea: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10034.msg269285#msg269285 . I would be curious to see how you're going to accomplish repulsion all the way.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on January 03, 2011, 01:15:57 PM
Quote
Front view of my test rig.   

Bill

nice build bill!!

first thing that comes to mind, does the L mount for stator magnet (part that goes up & down with magnet attached) tend to go up unlevel?  looks like with the play you have in the guides it would.  if you get to a point where this bothers you, you might shorten (left side)the segment where the magnet is (extend the left guide in as far as possible) and put that length/weight to the right of the push rod part so it looks more like a T than a L.  that should balance it better so it would go up without favoring one side.

i don't see a provision for the 2nd small magnet mounted on the base in Roobert33's machine.  it appears to me he has used a lever there too but instead of making it easier to lift, he has made it harder (segment the cam hits is shorter than segment magnet is mounted on).  maybe he needed it to move further away to do the designed job.  do you think it has a spring to keep it down or just uses gravity?  is it in attraction or repulsion?

lots to play with and think about.

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on January 03, 2011, 01:57:17 PM
Quote
« Reply #424 on: January 02, 2011, 03:06:55 PM »Quote@tbird re cam . Here is my opinion . Suppose that due to the requirements of the system , the total lifting has to happen during 10degrees of shaft rotion . To achieve this with a smaller cam , the lobe or ramp on the cam needs to be much steeper and shorter . with the big cam the ramp is longer and less steep . The amount of work done is the same in both cases and happens in the same amount of time . Imagine biking up two hills . Both are 100 metres high . one is short and steep , the other is longer and more gradual . Both have to be climbed in the same length of time . The amount of work done is about the same in each case . That is my gut feeling .

neptune,

i think you forgot the 4 or 5 friends that will help you over the short steep hill.  maybe i'm wrong, but shouldn't we count them?

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 03, 2011, 05:09:07 PM
@tbird . I do A lot of biking ,and wether the hills are long or short , I get no help from any friends ! OK I know you did not mean that litterally . Work=force times distance , so if you lift the magnet a given distance , the work required remains the same . Think of me biking up a steep hill . If I use a lower gear , pedalling is easier , speed drops , and the climb takes longer . But I still burn the same number of calories .Gearing is just a continuous form of leverage . By the use of leverage in this machine , you could lessen the force needed to lift the magnet , but the lifting would need to happen over a longer time period .{more degrees of rotation] and this may upset the timing of the machine and would also extract the same amount of momentum from the rotating wheel . So, how about an opinion from some of you mathematicians instead of leaving it to an old retired truck driver like me.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on January 03, 2011, 06:46:22 PM
hi neptune,

@tbird . I do A lot of biking ,and wether the hills are long or short , I get no help from any friends ! OK I know you did not mean that litterally . Work=force times distance , so if you lift the magnet a given distance , the work required remains the same . Think of me biking up a steep hill . If I use a lower gear , pedalling is easier , speed drops , and the climb takes longer . But I still burn the same number of calories .Gearing is just a continuous form of leverage . By the use of leverage in this machine , you could lessen the force needed to lift the magnet , but the lifting would need to happen over a longer time period .{more degrees of rotation] and this may upset the timing of the machine and would also extract the same amount of momentum from the rotating wheel . So, how about an opinion from some of you mathematicians instead of leaving it to an old retired truck driver like me.

this is exactly why i posted reply #399.  maybe no one could relate to the machine at hand, but no one tried to answer the question.  maybe no one knows.

maw2432's (bill) design is basically the same thing.  the power to work the lever at the bottom comes from the circumference of the drum (top end of segment a in my pic).  cam, trigger device, whatever you want to call it, will still be determined by how long and how high you want the stator magnet assy. to be effected (or is it affected?).  granted, if the desire is to raise the stator magnet 6mm, then the cam will have to be (at 4 to 1) 24mm further out than the circumference of the drum  and have to get there in the allocated dwell angle.  i must be getting real confused now.  i'm using mm......?????

in Roobert33's machine, you actually have a higher (worse) ratio (5 to + or - 6).  this can't be the best, can it?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mscoffman on January 03, 2011, 11:59:11 PM
@All,

A couple of things I noticed about Roobert33’s motor;

The lift-bar mechanism seems to be stiff and *balanced* near the upper
right hand corner where the two wood pieces join up. The cam bearing weight
is also located near there. This means that the left hand slider has to support
or direct very less force (vectors) and has little tendency to jam. It’s kind
of a center of gravity consideration for the entire lift mechanism.

---

The lift support spring near the base appears double acting and works in
both compression and contraction mode, making it somewhat of a resonant
system. A resonant system will require less net total input energy, since some
energy is recycled and not totally lost, But at the same time may make the lift’s
operation a bit probabilistic.

---

A better way might be to attach the V-bar to a pendulum and let very small
energy loss increment take place as pendulum energy friction while the V_bar
cycles regularly. The pendulum would need to synchronized with the drum rotation
very similar to an escapement mechanism in a clock – which are known to be very
low energy loss devices.
 
Here is a Web link to the graphics of V-gate motor where the V_bar moves
comparitively continuously; 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFiQ6fy_6EE

FYI, Web Link to neat possibly useful Magnetic bearing;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0DRY7VsL-8

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on January 04, 2011, 12:06:08 AM
hi neptune,

this is exactly why i posted reply #399.  maybe no one could relate to the machine at hand, but no one tried to answer the question.  maybe no one knows.

maw2432's (bill) design is basically the same thing.  the power to work the lever at the bottom comes from the circumference of the drum (top end of segment a in my pic).  cam, trigger device, whatever you want to call it, will still be determined by how long and how high you want the stator magnet assy. to be effected (or is it affected?).  granted, if the desire is to raise the stator magnet 6mm, then the cam will have to be (at 4 to 1) 24mm further out than the circumference of the drum  and have to get there in the allocated dwell angle.  i must be getting real confused now.  i'm using mm......?????

in Roobert33's machine, you actually have a higher (worse) ratio (5 to + or - 6).  this can't be the best, can it?

Tbird, 

Glad you are still thinking of leverage.   I think it is the way to go.   Sorry but I have to wait until this weekend for magnets and time to do some experiments with my simple rig.   As to my design,  I think there may be enough leverage to move the rotor past the sticky point......... but many adjustments may be needed.  There are a lot of factors involved.  As to your comments, I think the closer to the shaft the cam is, you will also have less distance on lift of the stator and less control for adjustments for a novice garage developer like me.    Yes the stator arm at the top moves strait up and down even with some weights from the limited testing that I have done.  I hope the leverage will be enough to over come the friction.    I have to work during the week and family needs, so it may be later this weekend for an update.   


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: TinselKoala on January 04, 2011, 01:49:00 AM
So, there are lots of ways for power to be dissipated in this system. Cams, sliders, bearings, noisy thumpy interactions, all taking power away and turning it into waste heat, sound vibrations, and air motion.

But as far as I can see it's just an arrangement of permanent magnets moving past each other. We already know -- or should know -- that there's nothing about systems like this that PROVIDE power: there's no way for power to get INTO the system to replace the power that's dissipated in all that heat and wasted motion.

Unless of course it's supplied externally, or is coming from an onboard storage source.

You can actually calculate, based on some simple assumptions, how much power has to come from SOMEWHERE to keep your Roobert motor spinning at, say, 60 RPM. It's not going to be much, but it's still a lot more than you can get from moving magnets past each other.


Test your replications by taking out the "stator" magnet and replacing it with an equal weight dummy. Compare the rundown times, giving the rotor the same starting push, with the stator magnet in place, or with a non-magnetic weight substituted for it.

In this way you will be able to tell if your improvements or modifications are having any effect, helping or hurting.

You can give the rotor a repeatable starting push in many different ways, depending on the sophistication of your equipment.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 04, 2011, 05:23:03 AM
Quote
We already know -- or should know -- that there's nothing about systems like this that PROVIDE power: there's no way for power to get INTO the system to replace the power that's dissipated in all that heat and wasted motion.

On the contrary, we know and we should know that there is something in these systems that provides power. We know (you don't, but that's your problem) that the magnetic propulsor generates such power. The device at hand is a magnetic propulsor of sorts and all that needs to be done is proper machining and tweaking it. We know that it is possible in principle to build a working device like the one shown by @Roobert33's but we don't know yet to proper engineer it.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 04, 2011, 11:24:08 AM
@TinselKoala. You MUST read the article I showed via the link in reply number391 on page 27 . THIS is where the energy is coming from .
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: teslaalset on January 04, 2011, 01:07:02 PM
@TinselKoala. You MUST read the article I showed via the link in reply number391 on page 27 . THIS is where the energy is coming from .

I uploaded the patent Kozeka obtained on this.
You can find it here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=451
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 04, 2011, 02:43:53 PM
@TinselKoala. You MUST read the article I showed via the link in reply number391 on page 27 . THIS is where the energy is coming from .

I disagree. What is shown in that article is trivial because there's no change in energy when moving along equipotential surfaces. There's nothing unusual in that article. The reason for the excess energy is elsewhere.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 04, 2011, 04:40:48 PM
@Omnibus . Two independent researchers show between 13 and 20% overunity , and that is "trivial"?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 04, 2011, 04:55:11 PM
According to the videos posted by @mscoffman
There is a goal to build this motor to run a generator and
Shows the magnetic bearing.

Is it that exist the possibility to use the magnetic bearing to build the motor?

Jesus
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 04, 2011, 05:22:55 PM
@Omnibus . Two independent researchers show between 13 and 20% overunity , and that is "trivial"?

If there's OU (and, of course, there can be OU even more than 13 and 20%) but that is not because of the effect claimed in the link and in the patent (it doesn't appear it's a patent even but just a pre-patent disclosure, PCT). You can understand that by realizing that there cannot be a change in energy along equipotential surfaces. This is the reason why moving the magnets sideways (along equipotential surfaces) will require less energy than separating them along the equipotential surface normals. That is trivial.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 04, 2011, 05:45:12 PM
@Omnibus .Having read the said article , it is my understanding that what is claimed is the opposite of what you said in your last post . What is being claimed is that it takes less energy to pull the magnets directly apart  then the energy that can be gained by letting them approach in a sideways sliding motion . also , to describe someones opinion as "trivial" is not perhaps the best way for us all to work happily towards a common goal .
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 04, 2011, 10:26:11 PM
@Omnibus .Having read the said article , it is my understanding that what is claimed is the opposite of what you said in your last post . What is being claimed is that it takes less energy to pull the magnets directly apart  then the energy that can be gained by letting them approach in a sideways sliding motion . also , to describe someones opinion as "trivial" is not perhaps the best way for us all to work happily towards a common goal .

You can check it easily for yourself that it's not that way. Nevertheless, even if it were the way you describe it, that will not produce excess energy either. You can, of course, prove me wrong if you can show that the work done in a closed loop is not zero because the essence of my claim is that it will be zero.

As for something being trivial -- that's independent of the common goal. The common goal cannot convert a trivial thing into non-trivial.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 04, 2011, 11:10:57 PM
Now, let's talk about what's trivial, what's non-trivial and what is being overlooked. Like I said, it is trivial that no work is done when moving along an equipotential surface. That we cannot explore directly for OU purposes. Another trivial thing is that when there is a body experiencing a variable force of attraction as a function of the distance r between that body and the attracting body, that function may be different when the studied body approaches the attracting body along different paths starting from infinity (starting from points away from the attracting body where the force of attraction is practically zero, that is, several cm away from a magnet; that is, several cm away from a magnet is practically infinite distance from the magnet because it corresponds to an infinitely small force). That second trivial fact can be used for the obtainment of OU but that has nothing to do with just two magnets and their movement sideways or straight. This trivial fact applies to any situation where there is an attractive body with non-uniform conservative force. The said discrepancy is inherent in mechanics but has been overlooked as a source of OU. That's what the basis of functioning of the magnetic propulsor is and that has already been analyzed prior to Kedron. In fact this is what's causing the effect in @Rroobert33's motor and that's what's holding my interest and expectation that said device may be real.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: lumen on January 05, 2011, 02:00:00 AM
The "Eden Project", I tested this about a year ago and found the major error they made. They used spring scales in their testing! I performed the exact same tests with the same 3/4" square magnets and found no difference in energy at all. Everything balanced perfectly using a digital scale.

I originally had nearly exactly their same results until I noticed the plastic handle stretching on my digital scale and causing small position errors in the magnets when under high tension.
I modified the scale to provide a solid steel mount directly to the measuring unit to remove any spring when under high tension. I tried the tests several times after that, but all gain shown previously was gone!

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2011, 02:03:11 AM
The "Eden Project", I tested this about a year ago and found the major error they made. They used spring scales in their testing! I performed the exact same tests with the same 3/4" square magnets and found no difference in energy at all. Everything balanced perfectly using a digital scale.

I originally had nearly exactly their same results until I noticed the plastic handle stretching on my digital scale and causing small position errors in the magnets when under high tension.
I modified the scale to provide a solid steel mount directly to the measuring unit to remove any spring when under high tension. I tried the tests several times after that, but all gain shown previously was gone!

You will find a difference, however, using even a digital scale if you study the magnetic propulsor. You don't even need a scale to see there's a difference and the work depends on the path.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 05, 2011, 11:14:06 AM
@lumen. Thanks for telling us about your experimental results . Just shows how easily we can be misled .@Omnibus . Could you please  provide a link to the Magnetic Propulsor .
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2011, 02:52:01 PM
This one proves the obtainment of excess energy in a closed loop:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5163427245750490858

You can also observe excess energy generated in steup like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKyGDWeblQw

You may also take a look at the one posted by @CLaNZeR in this very thread: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJqFMNejrc
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 05, 2011, 03:32:01 PM
This one proves the obtainment of excess energy in a closed loop:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5163427245750490858

You can also observe excess energy generated in steup like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKyGDWeblQw

You may also take a look at the one posted by @CLaNZeR in this very thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJqFMNejrc

Oh, gee, Mr. Hand is still confusing the retard....
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 05, 2011, 03:41:45 PM
Oh, gee, Mr. Hand is still confusing the retard....

spam
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 13, 2011, 05:16:46 PM
This is an experiment I made yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo . On the one hand it demonstrates once again why we should be confident a magnetic motor can be real -- it proves clearly that excess energy can be produced. On the other hand it shows how difficult it would be to actually make one in view of the relatively small amount of excess energy produced even when using the strongest permanent magnets available on the market.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Chipper on January 13, 2011, 05:36:55 PM
Hi All,
what do you think about this video from
Roobert33:

Regards, Stefan.

I think it is a FAKE.

I have been experimenting with this setup, (not complete as yet).

I went back to view the video and noticed something off-the-wall about it. Observe the Cam closely and you will notice that there are some revolutions where the Cam is not even lifting the upper bar. It also appears to be wobbling, past (around) the bearing that engages the Cam.

You should see some revolutions where the Cam is obviously lifting the top bar, but then you will see some revolutions where it isn't lifting the top bar, at all, and yet it continues to rotate!!!!! I am observing the video over at peswiki.com.

Although it is obviously a fake, I haven't given up on the concept as yet. I am still building and experimenting with slightly different configurations.

 :'(

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Chipper on January 13, 2011, 06:16:17 PM
This is an experiment I made yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo . On the one hand it demonstrates once again why we should be confident a magnetic motor can be real -- it proves clearly that excess energy can be produced. On the other hand it shows how difficult it would be to actually make one in view of the relatively small amount of excess energy produced even when using the strongest permanent magnets available on the market.

Ya know what, I did an experiment very similar to this last night (about 1:00 am) I couldn't sleep, so I got up and experimented.

Only what I did was I took cylindrical magnet, polarized on the ends.

I then placed a Circular magnet at a distance, then slowly rolled the cylinder towards the circular magnet. I noticed that the orientation of the cylinder made a difference in it's engagement. Circular Face up orientation took longer to engage then horizontal, polarization - compared to the ends of the cylinder.

I also did the same thing substituting a bar magnet for the circular one. The results where repeatable.

One more thing. The center of the cylinder was aligned such that the circular magnet always had its edge aligned to the left of the middle of the line of the middle of the cylinder. I wanted it to always be attracted to the left end of the cylinder magnet, and always starting off just slightly to the left of the center line.

My conclusion is that the magnetic fields are strongest when oriented in the same plane.

I think this what you are seeing for sure.

Your test is much fancier and then mine, but at least I can back you up with what you are observing.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: gyulasun on January 14, 2011, 12:11:00 AM
Hi Chipper,

I would like to understand your test setup and make a simple drawing with three figures. Please tell which of them shows the best your circular-cylinder setup.  (all figures show top view, the rectangular shape is the cylinder of course). If none of the figures is correct feel free to modify them as you see fit, just use the Windows built-in Paint program.

I do not get fully your conclusion either, sorry, would you put it with different words, meaning the same please?

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 14, 2011, 10:40:49 AM
This is an experiment I made yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo . On the one hand it demonstrates once again why we should be confident a magnetic motor can be real -- it proves clearly that excess energy can be produced. On the other hand it shows how difficult it would be to actually make one in view of the relatively small amount of excess energy produced even when using the strongest permanent magnets available on the market.

"-- it proves clearly that excess energy can be produced."
Here we go again... "OU has already been proved beyond any reason of a doubt"....

Hey, is Mr. Hand out there?

"Magnetic gun/cannon" concept is so 1900.... Glad you have discovered it... Again.  No wonder, SMOT is your obsession, alright...

It's typical for such experiments to deceive the innocent. On a first sight, there's a low energy input (v1 of the ball), and considerably higher v2 (with the same mass of the ball, of course).
Which would mean that "OU" has been achieved.
As long as one doesn't count ALL the energies involved in the process (potential and kinetic would suffice).

Ok, forget about the theory, just build the (circular, oscillating,..) track and try to perpetuate the thing.
 ???

P.S. Sorry to say that, but you're certainly one of the "thickest wannabe (self proclaimed) scientists" of the last few years....

 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Chipper on January 14, 2011, 03:36:05 PM
Hi Chipper,

I do not get fully your conclusion either, sorry, would you put it with different words, meaning the same please?

Thanks,  Gyula

Here is an attachment of what I did.

1. Circular Magnet Face up (to ceiling). Vertical Plane. Cylinder = horizontal plane, along table top. Measure Distance engaged = 1.56 inches.
2. Circular Magnet on Edge (Balance it). Horizontal plane. Engaged 2.25"
3. Bar Magnet Face up. Vertical plane. Engaged = 1.54 inches.
4. Bar Magnet Face horizontal. Horizontal Plane. Engaged 2.25 inches.

This works out to a 44% increase/decrease in Magnetic Field strength, relative to distance of engagement.



Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 14, 2011, 04:57:45 PM
Of course, we're not going to forget about theory no matter how much some who claim they know science would surmise.

The distance of displacement of a body of mass M from a position of rest when struck by another body of mass m is a measure of the work done by the striking body. This is well known (known even before 1900).

it is equally well-known scientifically that the potential energy of a body of mass m attracted by another body converts into equivalent amount of other energies (kinetic energy will suffice) when that body of mass m is allowed to approach freely the attracting body from a point of displacement. The maximum potential energy can be converted into its equivalent maximum kinetic energy when the body of mass m is let go from a point where the force of attraction is zero to the point of maximum attraction force. This is also well-known since even before 1900.

This maximum kinetic energy is a potential to do work. In this case we choose the work done by the body of mass m to be the displacement of a body of mass M when struck by the body of mass m when it possesses the maximum kinetic energy.

The common understanding, known since even before 1900, is that a magnet of mass m will always exhibit the same amount of maximum kinetic energy when attracted by another magnet, independent of the point from which it starts, provided the force at this starting point is zero.

The validity of this common understanding can be checked. Use the same billiard ball of mass M, always place it at a point where the attraction between the two magnets is maximum (where the minimum of the potential energy of the two magnets is), remove one of the magnets away from the other to a piont where the force of attraction is practically zero and let it go. If aligned properly, the billiard ball will be struck by the approaching magnet and will be displaced. Move the magnet to another position of zero force and repeat the above. Compare the distances traveled by the billiard ball.

Use different magnets for the experiment explained above and you will find that in many instances you will confirm what has already been know since even before the nineteen hundreds -- the work done by the magnet being attracted done on the billiard ball will be the same (the distance traveled by the billiard ball will always be the same) independent of where you release it from as long as the starting point is where the force of attraction is practically zero.

However, there will be instances, such as the one shown in my vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo where the energies produced from two different points of release are different. In this case the experiment shows that the integral of force over distance is different in the two cases. This means that the integral of the force over distance in a closed loop (the two magnets attracted, one of the magnets removed to a point where the force of attraction is zero, same magnet moved to another point where the force of attraction is zero and then let go) is not zero. Even though the fact that magnets are attracted and that the work to remove two attracted magnets away from each other equals the work done when they spontaneously go back to their initial state has been known since even before 1900 the fact of the non-zero integral value of the closed-loop integral has not been known. This is new to science.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 14, 2011, 05:35:50 PM
Quote
...Even though the fact that magnets are attracted and that the work to remove two attracted magnets away from each other equals the work done when they spontaneously go back to their initial state has been known since even before 1900 the fact of the non-zero integral value of the closed-loop integral has not been known. This is new to science.

Jeeez... What a pretender... What the hell are you blabling about? "This is new to science" ??? WTF
If you have problems with understanding "potential" and "kinetics", don't blame the rest of the World...

And you certainly don't understand what a "closed-loop" means. That's for sure....

If you'll be shitting this site further, I'm going to post some "interesting" quotes of yours from over the last few years. For anyone to see what a shitfarm you really are....
Yadda yada da, OU has already been proven beyond any reason of a doubt, and bla bla & yada..dada..daa....


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 14, 2011, 06:01:00 PM
As is seen @spinner_MP is giving no arguments and is continuing to resort to personal attacks. This is going too far, as seen from his disruption also of other discussions.

Therefore, I'm issuing an open appeal to Stefan (as Stefan knows unlike others, I've never complained to him behind anybody's back) to ban @spinner_MP from this board. This would allow for more productive discussions uninterrupted by the attacks of zealous activists and confused individuals. The low class garbage @spinner_MP is spewing continuously does not belong to this or any other scientific discourse.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 14, 2011, 06:14:02 PM
As is seen @spinner_MP is giving no arguments and is continuing to resort to personal attacks. This is going too far, as seen from his disruption also of other discussions.

Therefore, I'm issuing an open appeal to Stefan (as Stefan knows unlike others, I've never complained to him behind anybody's back) to ban @spinner_MP from this board. This would allow for more productive discussions uninterrupted by the attacks of zealous activists and confused individuals. The low class garbage @spinner_MP is spewing continuously does not belong to this or any other scientific discourse.
Uh.. And Ahh... Lol!
Feeling scared that I may actually provide some proof about you?
What a farce...


Damn, you have a good chance to succeed with your appeal !
(I'm sure you'll be backed up with some members (Wilby, Ramses, &co. ..)). It happened before...

After all, this is The Over Unity site...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 14, 2011, 06:29:21 PM
I know Stefan is not reading this board on a regular basis but I will continue to re-post my open appeal for banning @spinner_MP and any other disruptive individual as long as he (or they) continue to spam this and other threads with their low class insults, contributing nothing to the discussion.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 14, 2011, 06:37:49 PM
I know Stefan is not reading this board on a regular basis but I will continue to re-post my open appeal for banning @spinner_MP and any other disruptive individual as long as he (or they) continue to spam this and other threads with their low class insults, contributing nothing to the discussion.

Why don't you write directly to Stefan? I can send you his e-mail address.... Or, you are intending to make additional few hundred of BS posts?
SPAM, OU,  Spam, i made it, sPAm,..beyond any doubt, spaM, SMOT is absolutely OU, spam, Einstein is a clown, sPaM.... etc...




Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 14, 2011, 06:43:48 PM
Like I said, I will re-post my open appeal to Stefan for @spinn_MP to be banned because of his deliberate effort to destroy OU discussions every time he continues to spew his spam (I never complain to Stefan in personal e-mails to him behind peoples' backs).
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: gyulasun on January 14, 2011, 06:49:53 PM
Here is an attachment of what I did.

1. Circular Magnet Face up (to ceiling). Vertical Plane. Cylinder = horizontal plane, along table top. Measure Distance engaged = 1.56 inches.
2. Circular Magnet on Edge (Balance it). Horizontal plane. Engaged 2.25"
3. Bar Magnet Face up. Vertical plane. Engaged = 1.54 inches.
4. Bar Magnet Face horizontal. Horizontal Plane. Engaged 2.25 inches.

This works out to a 44% increase/decrease in Magnetic Field strength, relative to distance of engagement.

Hi Chipper,

Thank you for the drawing and the explanation. I will digest it and if I have questions I will ask.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: quarktoo on January 14, 2011, 10:56:45 PM
O.k., This is probably a stupid question or two but here they are:

1. Is the track aligned North South?

2. I always thought that a north pole was slightly stronger than a south pole such as with the earths magnetic field. Sometimes people get confused over what is north and south on a magnet.

Since the south pole of a compass points to the north pole:

A. Are you reversing these to correspont to the Earth's poles

... OR

B. Does your experiment merely prove that the north pole is stronger and spinner is a unlicensed troll?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Qwert on January 14, 2011, 11:29:13 PM
Observe the Cam closely and you will notice that there are some revolutions where the Cam is not even lifting the upper bar.
Really? Would you like to show the exact point where that happens? Somehow, I'm unable to spot that point where the CAM IS NOT LIFTING THE UPPER BAR, despite my several efforts.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Chipper on January 15, 2011, 12:48:50 AM
Really? Would you like to show the exact point where that happens? Somehow, I'm unable to spot that point where the CAM IS NOT LIFTING THE UPPER BAR, despite my several efforts.

Look at this link, and watch very closely.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:_Mechanical_Opener_for_V-Gate_Magnet_Motor

It starts in between 1:44 and 1:54. Go to this point in the video and then rewind a couple of times, and you will start noticing a couple of things.

1. The push up height appears to be different through this little window of time. Observe around 1:48 seconds, slightly before, or after. You will notice that the cam barely lifts the bar magnet, then right after the bar magnet will jump real high - inconsistent heights - How can this be?

2. Now that you know what you are looking for let the video run out and you will observe the other things that I mentioned.


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: quarktoo on January 15, 2011, 01:04:48 AM
Chipper you are wrong. Sometimes youtube videos seize up on a slow computer. It is smooth for me and here is a guy that went through frame by frame and add a tone. It is steady.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMkeC2ApNO0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMkeC2ApNO0&feature=related)

I have no doubt that is real and possible. He would have most likely taken the video down because of the overwhelming response and maybe got a visit from whoever. One thing is for sure, it appears he did what academics have been claiming is impossible - they call it perpetual motion - dumb asses.

Bedini posted a video of howard johnsons magnetic train.

It only takes one white crow to prove not all crows are black unless your are a programmed academic.

Look what happened to the guy that uploaded video of his flux gate? Google took his account away for figuring out a cool magnet trick.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: spinn_MP on January 15, 2011, 12:28:42 PM
Like I said, I will re-post my open appeal to Stefan for @spinn_MP to be banned because of his deliberate effort to destroy OU discussions every time he continues to spew his spam (I never complain to Stefan in personal e-mails to him behind peoples' backs).
Lol, you have never complained to any of the site owner's before?    You lying pervert....

Hey, SPAM meister, what exactly are you planning to do about the current situation?
 ;D

Get laid.. and, get yourself at least a basic education...
That's a friendly advice, OmniBot pal...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Chipper on January 15, 2011, 01:42:50 PM
Chipper you are wrong. Sometimes youtube videos seize up on a slow computer. It is smooth for me and here is a guy that went through frame by frame and add a tone. It is steady.

Okay I am willing to accept that.
My DSL service isn't the greatest, but until I can verify it for myself, well, I just have to maintain some sense of skepticism.

I have no doubt that is real and possible. He would have most likely taken the video down because of the overwhelming response and maybe got a visit from whoever. One thing is for sure, it appears he did what academics have been claiming is impossible - they call it perpetual motion - dumb asses.

Now, Now, people have been working on a magnet motor for nearly 1 thousand years, and it appears that no-one has successfully been able to get one replicated.!!
 ;D

Bedini posted a video of howard johnsons magnetic train.

It only takes one white crow to prove not all crows are black unless your are a programmed academic.

Look what happened to the guy that uploaded video of his flux gate? Google took his account away for figuring out a cool magnet trick.

Video's are so easily manipulated, that you can't just go by a video. There has to be a replication to verify these results.

If it is so surely achievable, then why hasn't Clanzer been able to get his working?

Or how about me? I have tried and mine doesn't work either. I am trying my second newer improved build, with slight modifications to better study robert's vtrack/wheel thing. But, I won't be totally shocked if it doesn't work either.

By the way have you tried replicating this thing yet?
 ;)

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 15, 2011, 02:06:30 PM
First thing, we can't be sure that no one has made these motors in the past. This whole area of OU has been suppressed throughout centuries and we only have very limited info as to what really happened. On the other hand, makin a working one isn't an easy task, we know that from our own experience. It isn't easy because the excess energy produced is small and can easily be overtaken by the losses such as friction. Besides, most of the researchers trying to reproduce these motors work at substandard conditions, on their own limited budgets and that's an significant factor against successful replication. So, we shouldn't dwell on whether or not it has been made before, I think, but indeed try to put efforts into actually making one. We see it's possible, OU has been definitively proven and all we need is some ingenuity and skills in implementing it.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: quarktoo on January 15, 2011, 02:06:50 PM
Now, Now, people have been working on a magnet motor for nearly 1 thousand years, and it appears that no-one has successfully been able to get one replicated.!!  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u3fOwkiM7U

I guess you never heard the name Howard Johnson before?

If it is so surely achievable, then why hasn't Clanzer been able to get his working?

Or how about me? I have tried and mine doesn't work either. I am trying my second newer improved build, with slight modifications to better study robert's vtrack/wheel thing. But, I won't be totally shocked if it doesn't work either.

I hate to break the bad news to you, but you probably can't do brain surgery, put a man in space or that matter make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich but other people do it every day.

If you are challenged by watching TV online perhaps you are not the genius you imagined and are incapable of replicating someone else's genius? Worth consideration.

I'm not a magnet head, more an accelerated electromagnetics head. I find Omnibots experiment interesting.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: quarktoo on January 15, 2011, 02:11:46 PM
First thing, we can't be sure that no one has made these motors in the past. This whole area of OU has been suppressed throughout centuries and we only have very limited info as to what really happened. On the other hand, makin a working one isn't an easy task, we know that from our own experience. It isn't easy because the excess energy produced is small and can easily be overtaken by the losses such as friction. Besides, most of the researchers trying to reproduce these motors work at substandard conditions, on their own limited budgets and that's an significant factor against successful replication. So, we shouldn't dwell on whether or not it has been made before, I think, but indeed try to put efforts into actually making one. We see it's possible, OU has been definitively proven and all we need is some ingenuity and skills in implementing it.

Howard Johnson did it with a roll of tape and a toy train. I noticed you had a roll of tape in your video and a little train track. You are almost there Omnibus, keep trying.

There is a guy that made a magnetic shield for one side of a magnet and it is simple how it works. I wonder how far you would get if you used that instead of a steel ball?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Chipper on January 15, 2011, 04:30:12 PM
I hate to break the bad news to you, but you probably can't do brain surgery, put a man in space or that matter make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich but other people do it every day.

If you are challenged by watching TV online perhaps you are not the genius you imagined and are incapable of replicating someone else's genius? Worth consideration.


Now I see how this forum works. Simply a bunch of people insulting all the others who actually do experiments, and actually build these machines.

Well Adios everyone, I will continue working on my models, and if I get them working, YOU AIN"T EVER GONNA KNOW!!!

I'm out of here.

Never to post again.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: quarktoo on January 15, 2011, 05:17:14 PM
Now I see how this forum works. Simply a bunch of people insulting all the others who actually do experiments, and actually build these machines.

Well Adios everyone, I will continue working on my models, and if I get them working, YOU AIN"T EVER GONNA KNOW!!!

I'm out of here.

Never to post again.

I simply corrected your untruthful statements and stated the facts along with evidence.

1. The magnet motor has been invented and gave you a link to watch it work.

2. Pointed out the logical fallacy that since you can't make it work, it must be fake. That is detrimental to the free energy movement - Plenty of people are doing it.

Hopefully the free energy movement is not doomed to failure without your amazing talents.

Here are two more corrections to your final untruthful statements:

1. I do experiments and have been for 30+ years. If you find the truth insulting, you just proved my point.

2. I don't insult anybody that is working constructively in an open and truthful manner. If someone makes untruthful statements about OU devices, I have something to say about that since I want to see people try and succeed.

I didn't insult you, you insulted yourself. All I did was set the record straight.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: quarktoo on January 15, 2011, 05:32:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fByrVUxkTek

Here is the magnet shield I was referring to. It is kind of an interesting idea. Most of what he "believes" is wrong but the idea of directing the flux around one side is interesting.

Given the fact that youtube suspended his account just for showing it is also interesting.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: teslaalset on January 18, 2011, 09:49:37 AM
I disagree. What is shown in that article is trivial because there's no change in energy when moving along equipotential surfaces. There's nothing unusual in that article. The reason for the excess energy is elsewhere.

Continued discussion from page 30, reply #440:

After doing some study, I have to disagree with Omnibus (sorry ;)) and agree with Neptune.
The V shaped track is acting as a long bar shaped magnet that is wrapped around a cylinder.
So, the horizontal movement is done by the cylinder while the lifting is representing the vertical movement, exactly what is described in the patent of Kozeka .

I did some simple FEMM simulations. The measurements in the patents match my findings, see below pictures of the results.
First picture represents the forces required to move the magnet (in this case the cylinder)
Second picture represent the energy over distance
Third picture shows the energy difference between the horizontal energy and vertical energy over distance. The total difference in energy is the last value (on the utmost right value, representing the end of each movement) in the third picture.

The essence of this is that the mechanical lift of the bar magnet should have less friction losses than the energy gained in this setup and the energy it takes to lift the magnet should also be less than the energy gain in the setup.
I am looking into lifting the bar magnet with an electromagnet.
By pulsing the electromagnet you can efficiently lift the bar magnet and re-use the energy in the electromagnet after switching off (via flyback diode)

Here's the link to Kozeka's patent once more:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=451
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 18, 2011, 03:13:15 PM
@teslaalset,

I should say again, the correct understanding of this phenomenon and why we should be hopeful that a magnetic-propulsor like device (not only a V-track shaped but any magnetic-propulsor like device) is not in the mere sideways versus straight movement of magnets but lies elsewhere is the following. It is always to be expected that removing the magnets in a certain direction is closer to removing them along equipotential surface then removing them along another direction and therefore the work done in the first case will be less then in the other case. That may not, however, ensure gain when closing the loop (removing one magnet away from the other, moving the former magnet at another point of the field and letting it go back to its initial position, attached to the first magnet).

The excess energy along a closed loop is obtained only when the magnet being removed from the other magnet is also let go from the same potential surface, as I've explained here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10177.msg270908#msg270908 .

Thus, for excess energy to be produced we not only have to utilize the fact that the form of the magnetic force versus distance may differ when the attracting magnet is approached from different points by the magnet being attracted but also the latter magnet has to be removed and let go from surfaces where it has the same potential energy. That second crucial condition is not fulfilled in Kozeka's case.

Now, having understood how the excess energy is really produced in magnet-propulsor like devices and having no doubt it is real we are faced with a major difficulty in utilizing it for the purposes of making a continuously turning self-propelled motor -- the amount of the excess energy is not only very small but it is produced in a non-technological way. In the case at hand rotational excess energy has to come from translational kinetic energy while in a case such as the shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo translational excess kinetic energy obtained when the ball s moving in one direction has to be utilized for inducing translational kinetic energy of the ball in another direction. How is this difficulty to be ofercome is anyone's guess at this time.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: neptune on January 18, 2011, 05:39:22 PM
@teslaalset . so your conclusion seems to be [correct me if I am wrong] that the energy gained by 2 magnets attracting face to face and moving together is greater than the energy needed to separate them by a sideways sliding movement . The difficulty , if this is true of using this to make a motor is as follows . As the 2 magnets attract and move together , The energy produced starts at a very low level , and increases exponentially reaching a maximum at the end of the movement . To separate the magnets , we need a large force initially , decreasing exponentially until the separation is complete . So The two "power curves" do not match .The answer might be to store the energy off attraction in a flywheel , And then ,an instant later , to use this stored energy for the separation along the appropriate path .
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 18, 2011, 07:16:15 PM
Here's where I'm stuck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSrgTTmHGMQ and that's not at all unusual. That's where everybody gets stuck. Now, when adding a cam you add more parameters, unneeded disbalance and weight let alone friction. A flywheel would also add more weight which has to be overcome in addition to everything else. So, these obvious suggestions don't seem to work. The goal is first to avoid gravity effects and that can be easily done. Another goal is to have only fields act and have mass as small as possible and that's not easy to accomplish. Nevertheless, the escess energy produced while making one turn still seems to be quite small to be sufficient for overcoming the barrier at the end of the turn despite the deceiving feeling one has when lifting the stator with the pencil (seen in the vid) that the work done is negligible.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mscoffman on January 18, 2011, 08:43:02 PM
@Omnibus;

Before you modify your experimental setup shown, you should
consider building an electric version of this wheel. The electric version
is solid as it has no mechanical moving pieces except the rotor.

For example you could make magnetic poles by cutting a large iron
washer into quarters and gluing two poles pieces onto the magnet.
Then wrapping some wire coils around the pole pieces. You could
test this by a switch which applies a DC current pulse only during
the sticky spot, to turn the magnet off.

In a perfect world you could charge an electrolytic capacitor during
the wheel rotation and reverse the cap across the coil during the
sticky spot.

The beauty of this is that for a particular voltage, a particular
cap will hold a specific quantity of electricity. So you can tell
by a voltage reading how close the device is to overunity operation.
(plus, it would be neat to see it operating)

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: teslaalset on January 18, 2011, 09:36:16 PM
@teslaalset . so your conclusion seems to be [correct me if I am wrong] that the energy gained by 2 magnets attracting face to face and moving together is greater than the energy needed to separate them by a sideways sliding movement . The difficulty , if this is true of using this to make a motor is as follows . As the 2 magnets attract and move together , The energy produced starts at a very low level , and increases exponentially reaching a maximum at the end of the movement . To separate the magnets , we need a large force initially , decreasing exponentially until the separation is complete . So The two "power curves" do not match .The answer might be to store the energy off attraction in a flywheel , And then ,an instant later , to use this stored energy for the separation along the appropriate path .

@Neptune,
It's difficult to draw conclusions without doing the real measurements myself.
The only thing I tend to believe is that by moving magnets this way there is a surplus of energy.
The patent of Kozeka shows it (confirmed by real measurements), my simulations confirm it and also Omnibus experiments shows this.

As you and Omnibus already indicate (and I agree), the real problem is to convert this principle into a real working mechanical model.

I think there are a few critical parameters that need real accurate tuning as well.
In my initial FEMM simulations, I used  1 cm cube magnets and a displacement of 2 times 50 mm.
(the horizontal axis indicate units of 0.1 mm, representing the steps that my simulations used).
From the third graph in my posted results one can see that there is a maximum of energy gain at a particular distance smaller that 50 mm, rather than take the value of the full stroke of 2 times 50 mm.
You can see that the optimum energy surplus is around 14 mm. 
So, this method can be used to determine the optimized maximum gain and the corresponding optimum stroke if the magnets are given parameters.

There maybe other movement combinations that have larger gain as well, who knows.
If I can find time, I will do some more simulations to see whether I can find these combinations.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on January 19, 2011, 02:24:57 AM
omnibus,

Quote
Here's where I'm stuck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSrgTTmHGMQ and that's not at all unusual. That's where everybody gets stuck. Now, when adding a cam you add more parameters, unneeded disbalance and weight let alone friction.

maybe the picture below will give you a new approach.

the idea is to reduce the load of the reset device as much as possible.  by mounting the stator magnet on a bell crank (i think that word works here) with a counter weight, you can reduce the force needed to raise the magnet.  the nice thing about it is it can be applied to a larger unit without any increase in load.  just adjust the weight or length of arm counterweight is mounted on to suit the job.

if adjusted proper, you should be able to blow on the #4 arm and the stator magnet will go up.  cool?

you can determine the height and time by the overlap length of #3 & #4.  once it is in your hand, it will be clear.

the timing in the picture maybe off, but that too you can work out once the parts are in place.

if after you've had a look you don't get it, let me know and i'll try to help.

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 19, 2011, 10:06:53 PM
Now, this is getting real close: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jftQS2ClBm8 . The gravity effects are basically taken care of and one has to figure out now how to move away that mosquito-like pendulum just a wee bit to have it overcome the sticky spot.

@tbird, hope you'll like this more conservative solution which avoids additional structures.

@mscoffman, your idea is very good but it seems we'll get into the same problem Paul Sprain has -- how is the output energy to be measured. Paul Sprain's device so far is the closest to achieving an OU motor, using brute force -- slight input from the outside to allow for the overcoming of the sticky spot.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on January 19, 2011, 10:40:22 PM
Omnibus,

bill wilson used a couple more magnets in repulsion.  he said it worked well.  they don't have to be big, just far enough out not to interfer with the working magnets.

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on January 20, 2011, 12:09:58 AM
Omnibus, 

To move your stator,
You may want to try putting another magnet (where you are moving it with your pencil) on the movable stator ( in repulsion mode) to another magnet at the bottom of your rotor where you want to get pass the sticky spot.   Being lower down on the stator arm you should have more leverage. 
It does not take very large magnets to move the stator away.... problem then may be timing in swinging it back?

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 20, 2011, 12:46:48 AM
Omnibus,

bill wilson used a couple more magnets in repulsion.  he said it worked well.  they don't have to be big, just far enough out not to interfer with the working magnets.

tom

Bill Wilson? Does he really have a working PMM? Would be interested to see a link.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: tbird on January 20, 2011, 01:21:30 AM
Omnibus,

maw2432 is bill wilson. check his post in this thread.  his latest post is just before your last.

tom
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 20, 2011, 01:40:56 AM
Omnibus,

maw2432 is bill wilson. check his post in this thread.  his latest post is just before your last.

tom

Thanks.

I know from experience that trying to solve this conundrum by adding more and more magnets leads you into a dead-end. Some fine tuning of the pendulum spring constant and the mutual disposition of magnets may be the solution in addition to the "brute force" addition of a cam to realize the negative feedback -- some feather-like cam or something, ensuring proper timing at low friction.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 20, 2011, 06:03:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fByrVUxkTek

Here is the magnet shield I was referring to. It is kind of an interesting idea. Most of what he "believes" is wrong but the idea of directing the flux around one side is interesting.

Given the fact that youtube suspended his account just for showing it is also interesting.

That is also an important video. Wonder if the guy implemented that idea in a magnet motor or in a closed-loop magnetic propulsor? It's hard to believe that youtube would suspend an account for showing this kind of video. Are you sure it wasn't for something else?

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on January 20, 2011, 07:33:04 AM
Hi  all , the problem with this devise is that it is always designed to work on a single plane.A spherical design , that is shaped like the earths magnetic field is where the answer lies. The closer to the poles the tighter the field, the closer to the equator, the more the field spreads out.If somebody could show how to put coils around the earth, to produce AC, I think it could be replicated, since I already have a sphere that mimicks the earths magnetic field.Although my sphere has only 8 poles , but could be increased to as many poles as you want or need.I believe the earth has unlimited poles ,it depends on your point of perspective...............shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on January 20, 2011, 07:50:22 AM
also the sticky spot that causes so much problem is offset by the design itself, the farther you get from the axis ,the more the field spreads out ,automatically stairstepping the sticky spot.As the magnetic field expands the collapsing field behind it, can add to the up coming opposite ........this only works till you hit the equator , then every thing reverses..............just thinking out loud ....shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 21, 2011, 12:03:58 AM
Shylow:

So, are you suggesting that we should build a PMM the diameter of the earth at the equator?  Please, I am not making fun here, I just want to understand your post.  Tesla once said that, we could build a ring around the earth, and suspend it temporarily while being built but then, gravity would hold it in place and then, it would float independent of the earth's rotation and we could extract tons of power from it.  Maybe this is not related to what you are posting but....your idea sounds interesting to me.

Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: shylo on January 21, 2011, 01:32:25 PM
Hi Bill, I'm saying that we should build a shpere shaped rotor, because with this shape the field starts very tight at the top ,but as you go down around the outside of the ball the field spreads out ,then starts to get closer again as you pass the equator. The rotor I have is eight poles 4n, 4s, ns very close at the axis, ns at the equator ~2" apart. Draw a ball ,now draw two lines all the way around at 90 deg. to each other ,all the norths one side of the lines (4), all the souths on the other side..........shylo
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 22, 2011, 06:19:22 PM
As I said earlier, instead of just theorizing about it, it is preferable to start actually doing hands on research on these devices independent of whether or not one would meet with instant success. This process is necessary to gain more knowledge and to fine tune the directions in which success may be achieved. 

Independent of the fact that excess energy can be produced and that's confirmed indisputably by experiments such as the one shown in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo , that excess energy is so small that some ingenious way has to be found to utilize it for the purposes of continuous rotation. One thing we learn over and over again is that there are no known methods of efficiently transforming rotational excess energy into translational. These were the problems met by everybody who tried to replicate Torbay's device, these are the problems in this device and in any other device where the negative feedback is to be achieved by transferring excess energy into translational energy. Of course, one possible way to go is find ways to increase the amount of excess energy produced and it may be argued that that's what @Roobert33's device does. It may be but I don't see how (even with that additional lever at the bottom). Thus, probanly one lesson that we should learn is that any device requiring transformation of rotational excess energy into translational is doomed practically (it may make sense theoretically but there's no way to achieve it in a real world, friction-prone model). As a matter of fact these are the same problems we're meeting with when trying to make gravity motors.

Also, due to the same friction-loss arguments, doomed is the attempt to use for the purposes of continuous rotation the excess energy produced in one direction for inducing translational motion in a perpendicular direction, as in the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqXJbwpNRo video.

So, one obvious direction we should pursue is to find conditions for natural asymmetries (recall that natural asymmetries were found in the theory of electricity that lead to OU) in the fields such that the excess energy of the translational motion be used directly in the construction providing continuous spinning. There are may failed attempts in this respect, using mu-metal shielding but that doesn't mean that can't be done. If someone feels there are fundamental reasons why that can't be done he should lay out these reasons and not just reject the idea verbally. So far, I don's see such fundamental reasons. Mybe those who like to use the Maxwell3D simulation or even the 2D simulation can help in this respect.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Omnibus on January 22, 2011, 06:22:54 PM
In view of the above I'm intending to take down the two videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSrgTTmHGMQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jftQS2ClBm8) from youtube. It seems to me they served their purpose. If anyone thinks I should keep them there let me know.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on January 23, 2011, 02:46:22 AM
If that magnet was much smaller, but had the same strength as a big one you got there, the two experiments would ended up with the very same result.

Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 20, 2011, 03:25:25 AM
Hello dear people, sorry for my English, I am new, and from Armenia.
Regarding the watched video and device have got an idea to use Bedini circuit but a bit changed - no primary batt in it and instead of it to use Roobert33 magnetic motor field from every magnet at one side by adding to Bedini's circuit second coil with rectifire and capacitor under that magnets - energise it by that .Just hope this will help to turn it more efective if it is not fake demosntration.Target is crazy:) as far as such coils shall not create additional magnetic brakes when charging Bedini's circuit "output" catacitor and discarge that capacitor at the next stage to batt at the end by high (about 400v) DC voltage pulse.This is a draft idea and it is need to be tested.

Trully,
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 24, 2011, 10:48:12 PM
Hi,
please help with info.
is that true that neodinuim magnets getting old (degradating)  at such working way as it is shown on the video and loosing its magnetic power on 7-10% per year?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on October 25, 2011, 12:47:56 AM
Hi,
please help with info.
is that true that neodinuim magnets getting old (degradating)  at such working way as it is shown on the video and loosing its magnetic power on 7-10% per year?

Off course cause that is the great secret of monkey bussiness  :D  :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Magluvin on October 25, 2011, 01:19:43 AM
Hi,
please help with info.
is that true that neodinuim magnets getting old (degradating)  at such working way as it is shown on the video and loosing its magnetic power on 7-10% per year?

Not quite.   It would take temperatures above 170 deg F or an extreme pulse to degrade a Neo mag. With Neo's you should get many many years of use out of them.  ;]
No monkeys here.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on October 26, 2011, 03:27:55 AM
It appears this thread is pretty dead with no posts from January to October but I am here to see if there is any possibility of learning anything more.

From what I can determine; this appears to be a relatively simple device to replicate and, YET, nobody has actually built the same thing!
Even CLaNZeR appears to have it wrong including the lack of lightweight design, ferrite pieces, single bar magnet on top and trigger magnet on bottom... All MISSING from his build.

Is the right place? Is there another, more up to date, thread on this device?

After doing a quick review of Robert Calloway's page regarding this motor, I see KEY ingredients that MUST be included:
#1 Rotor is ferrite rods; NOT magnets.
#2 Top magnet is SINGLE bar.
#3 Helper 'trigger' magnet at bottom.
#4 All lightweight, non-ferrous, construction materials.

See:
http://www.callowayengines.com/msg3.htm

I have done a word search through this entire forum and NOBODY has used the word: "ferrite"!

How can this be?
Robert's page CLEARLY states: "... the rotor wheel is not made or covered with magnets. It is made with ferrite pieces."
Did he write that AFTER January when nobody was paying attention?

I come here with the questions:
What type of ferrite has a polished, shiny, appearance?
What PARTICULAR ferrite material/formula is suggested?
What dimensions might be suggested for the ferrite pieces?
How many ferrite pieces were used?
Are there off-the-shelf ferrite rods that might be suitable?
What are the dimensions of the top & bottom magnets?

Some of you are pretty good at dissecting video in your attempts to debunk it.
But can you examine the video and try to answer some of my questions regarding the materials used?

Please respond.

Kindest regards.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 26, 2011, 01:16:29 PM
Not quite.   It would take temperatures above 170 deg F or an extreme pulse to degrade a Neo mag. With Neo's you should get many many years of use out of them.  ;]
No monkeys here.  ;]

Mags
Hi dear Mags,
Sorry for my English Sir,
with your temperature statement I am agree  on 100%, but I am not agree with statement that magnets will not have degradation from pulse operation as far as even short pulse of same pole such as N to N or S to S will change structure of magnets pre magnetized metal domens any way. I had call to one of the famous Russia Res. Institutes in Moscow who are busy with super conductivity (SRI of High Temperature ) research and had conversation about neodymium magnets with one of the famous engineers(he was a friend of my friends) - I was advised and informed that magnets getting old at static work at position N to N pole or S to S and loosing about max. 7-10% per year... also it depends of course from the gap of two magnets, as mush it is close and small - that much the magnets degradations become faster.
I am interesting about that and want to know if anyone here measured by digital gauss meters degradations speed in 1 year of such systems? What is the results? I am sure US Patents 4151431 working from 79 year, there must be results. Very interesting to know such information  to calculate such motors life time to next magnet change time when degradations will rise to 20% level.

Grate thanks in advance for future information!

Truly,
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 26, 2011, 01:34:31 PM
Off course cause that is the great secret of monkey bussiness  :D  :D  :D  :D
Hi, I am sorry I don’t know what is the meaning of "monkey business" but I want to say here that this motor not braking The law of conservation of energy  as far as it is using magnet accumulated energy which was preliminary “pumped” to the rare-earth threw (metal) by electrical energy impulse that was pre generated by human created different AC power plants or otherwise. If you are not agree with this statment then it is very interesting to know your positon and tech explanations about The law of conservation of energy and artificially created by human magnets behavior.
Truly,
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Honk on October 26, 2011, 03:30:14 PM
The law of conservation of energy and artificially created by human magnets behavior.
No it's not. The conservation of energy is a basic law of nature and it has nothing to do with human interaction. 8)
Being a law of nature means it cannot be broken in any way, at least not by humans knowledge of today.
Every proper test performed since the dawn of physics points to physics being 100% correct and magnetism is 100% conservative.
No free lunch here....please move on folks....  ::) ;D ;)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 26, 2011, 05:37:49 PM
No free lunch here....
Thanks a lot for kind answer, that was all what I had looking from you because I did not understand English expression used by you :)

Take My deep apologies to you Sir!

Are you able to help me with the following info below from my post?

<I am interesting about that and want to know if anyone here measured by digital gauss meters degradations speed in 1 year of such systems? What is the results? I am sure US Patents 4151431 working from 79 year, there must be results. Very interesting to know such information  to calculate such motors life time to next magnet change time when degradations will rise to 20% level.

Grate thanks in advance for future information!>

Truly
Rob


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 27, 2011, 04:23:34 PM
Well, made such simple "instrument" to measure magnet degradation in 1 year. Next video frame after 3 months.
Magnets 1mm x 10mm. Natural, static gravity "presure" on N to N poles is 13gr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNceej2q7-4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNceej2q7-4)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 30, 2011, 09:22:08 AM
Grate thanks to Roobert33 for free detailed video.

I made video reverse reconstruction in AutoCad and got approx. size of device in DXF format

here is the link to file if someone have interest to copy it.

http://depositfiles.com/files/smkg4cgxr

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on October 30, 2011, 06:09:29 PM
Thank you for the scale analysis drawing.

Are these numbers in millimeters?
Assuming these numbers are in millimeters, and my eyeballs are properly calibrated, I think the scale may be a little off.

I believe the bar magnet, on top, is probably an off-the-shelf 2"L X 1/4" X 1/4" bar magnet.
And the rotor width is somewhere between 2" - 2.5" with a diameter around 4".
But this drawing shows a rotor width over 3.5" and diameter over 6" and a base plate over 13" diameter.

I also believe the upright supports are probably around 1/2" - 5/8", the feet, on the bottom of the base plate, are probably 1/2" or 3/4" disks, the spring is out of a pen at around 3/16" and the moving, wood, dowel is around 1/4" diameter.

You might want to try scaling his hand as compared to an average male hand and see what you come up with.
My index finger is about 80mm and my thumbnail is about 18mm.
And, in this image, his thumbnail is about the same width as the uprights.

Also: I have noticed in the video, and in this CAD drawing, that the "trigger" magnet, at the bottom, appears to be a pair of magnets.
This might be a pair of magnets with opposing fields forced together to create a narrow "focused" north, or south, field.
Or maybe some other paired configuration to create a field at a right angle or some such thing.

This could very well be the key to a successful replication as it may be necessary to have a focused, 'pinpoint' field for proper timing of this magnetic 'switch' at exactly the right point of the ferrite, V track, rotation.

}:>


Grate thanks to Roobert33 for free detailed video.

I made video reverse reconstruction in AutoCad and got approx. size of device in DXF format

here is the link to file if someone have interest to copy it.

http://depositfiles.com/files/smkg4cgxr

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 30, 2011, 09:04:06 PM
Thank you for the scale analysis drawing.

Are these numbers in millimeters?

Yes, in mm . Base object for scaling for me was the magnets on dram-rotor. As for me they are 1/2inch(12.7mm)
And So on..
Tolerance of this drawing by my calculation about +/-2-2.5mm as far as camera was under the angel which is not known Sir.So, if you are not agree with scale then count your own and build your scaled magnet motor:) No problem:)
my calculations show me that (dram) rotor D=145mm(5.708661")

Also: I have noticed in the video, and in this CAD drawing, that the "trigger" magnet, at the bottom, appears to be a pair of magnets.
This might be a pair of magnets with opposing fields forced together to create a narrow "focused" north, or south, field.
Or maybe some other paired configuration to create a field at a right angle or some such thing.

}:>
Very good and right observation, there are 2 magnets.Here I want to go very easy with logic of field - if we have good pushing/drugging force on the top with magnet that have 90 degree rotation to dram magnets poles, then the bottom one shall be and have the same orientation and add force moment at the its relevant time tic to dram magnet V-gate field.Sorry for my English. Magnets below doubled to make field more wide....(very good mech. ballansed solution from Roobert33!) they are short to reduce the moment mech resistant to push them up and not loose to much inertion energy... It will be more easy to communicate for me in Russia and explane  tech staff that I can see in this good model of motor.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on October 30, 2011, 09:15:44 PM
Thank you for the scale analysis drawing.

And the rotor width is somewhere between 2" - 2.5" with a diameter around 4".

You might want to try scaling his hand as compared to an average male hand and see what you come up with.
My index finger is about 80mm and my thumbnail is about 18mm.

:) Please, count motor scale by using with more technical staff as parts on the motor, Human body "parts" can no be the scaling basepoint if you dont know man personally and very close:)
Sorry Sir, human body can be small and/or large because of diffrent genetics :)
You are kindly asked to stop discussion about drawing scale, because only 1 man on the world can judge this scale true or not true  and it is Mr.Roobert33.Are we able to call him to this topic? Guess - NO:( I still counting that my drawing in the relevant - good scale to built such motor and run it.Mean time I am busy with this project very seriously to reproduce motor based on my drawings. Video materials about results will be shared here. I am 50, and dont have time to make mistakes:) Busy with motor construction already 10 years, and about 36 years in model aircraft construction from strech photo pictures.This motor will become good charger for my electric avia modles LiPo, LiFe ets batts at the field and mountains.
Thanks for your post, opinion and time. I really appreciate you, because you are recalling my English.
TO: Mr.Roobert33,
if you are reading this post - You Are VERY MUCH Brilliant Engineer Sir! It was grate to see your motor as the result of your many years research! Thank you Sir for such GIFT to PEOPLE of ARMENIA and to world to make it GREEN!
As the RC pilot I want to see in the air nature Eagles flying free in clean AIR!

Truly,
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 03, 2011, 12:33:44 AM
Just thought I would go ahead and post a couple images of my progress. (see attached)

After careful review of the original video I found that there are ONLY two objects in the picture.
#1 The motor.
#2 The hand.
So without a good, reliable, reference such as a ruler or another object of known size such as a coin, I made the assumption the hand is just an "average" male hand.
And, also, just based on my own experience of over 40 years of working with hardware and parts and wood in my own hands, I got a pretty good impression of the scale of this thing just from watching the video a few times.

SO, I took a stab at it and made a size assumption on a couple of the parts.
The rest fell into place from there.

I also assumed this device was mostly made of off-the-shelf materials so I just went to the hardware store and found stuff that fits and ordered common magnets and ferrites. (Still waiting for ferrites) It does appear the ferrites used in the original video were special order, plated, ferrites of unknown formula.

Parts list that I have so far:

(1) 7" diameter, .250" thick acrylic disk.
(6) 1" stick on feet.
(2) .500" X .250" X .250" neodymium "switch" magnets.
(1) 2" X .250" X .250" neodymium "stator" magnet.
(1) .625" X .625" X 8" hardwood support.
(1) .625" X .625" X 7" hardwood support.
(1) .3125 wood dowel cut and fastened to make "L" shape.
(1) Return spring from Pilot G-2 pen.
(3) .250" ID X .625" OD ball bearings.
(1) .250" stainless steel all thread shaft. (Cut to fit)
(4) .250" stainless nuts.
(2) .250 stainless washers.
(3) wood screws.
(1) 4" diameter X 2" wide aluminum drum / rotor. (air intake pipe for diesel engine)
(1) .250" thick X 4" diameter wood disk. (rotor hub)

This is just a quick mock-up that I threw together this afternoon.

My upright supports are a little to tall, still need to fabricate a rocker for the lower magnet, many things will need to be squared up and adjusted, I am still waiting for parts, and my finished product may actually be all acrylic.

That is all for now.

}:>
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 03, 2011, 01:37:41 AM
:) Please, count motor scale by using with more technical staff as parts on the motor, Human body "parts" can no be the scaling basepoint if you dont know man personally and very close:)

This is true but; when that is the ONLY reference object next to the motor, in the video, what else are you going to use?

Sorry Sir, human body can be small and/or large because of diffrent genetics :)


You are kindly asked to stop discussion about drawing scale, because only 1 man on the world can judge this scale true or not true  and it is Mr.Roobert33.Are we able to call him to this topic? Guess - NO:(

Actually, yes, his Texas phone number is on his http://www.callowayengines.com/ web site.
But its my understanding he sold the design, therefore a contract exists, which likely contains a non-disclosure agreement and I do respect this and will not bother him.


Busy with motor construction already 10 years, and about 36 years in model aircraft construction from strech photo pictures.

Truly,
Rob

Thats pretty cool.
My own formal training is Airframe & Powerplant, in 1981, at Colorado Aero tech.
I am fully trained qualified to work on the real thing.   8)

}:>

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 03, 2011, 02:18:25 AM
Actually, yes, his Texas phone number is on his http://www.callowayengines.com/ web site.

Thats pretty cool.
My own formal training is Airframe & Powerplant, in 1981, at Colorado Aero tech.

[/b]

Actually it is grate pleasure  to know and find colleagues here.
Thanks for your remarks, and motor owner tel. If it is still on, I will try to call him personally and ask some questions, hope he will answer to call.
Well, You have better design scale, guess it will be faster in RPM
Thanks for detailed explanation of your design. I really appreciate it! Very good job!

http://s017.radikal.ru/i440/1111/a9/da65f2c6d8d0.jpg

How you are going to get power from motor? high voltage static energy to capacitors or simple impulse coils with capacitors to discharge them to batts?Are you able to share that or I am asking too much Sir?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 03, 2011, 02:39:54 AM

I do believe Robert's rotor is a slightly larger diameter than my 4" rotor.
His is probably somewhere between 4.250" to 4.750" diameter maybe even 5.00".
But I have lots of stuff laying around that is right at 4.00" including clear, acrylic, tube so that's what I am going with.  :)

Don't know about RPM.
This is probably dictated by the strength of the attracting (stator) magnet.
Some say a PM motor should have a run-away RPM.
I believe this toy is limited by air friction and other losses and RPM can also be controlled by timing of the mechanical switching in a more efficient device.

I do not expect to do much work with this demonstration toy; IF I can get it to run at all.

}:>



Actually it is grate pleasure  to know and find colleagues here.
Thanks for your remarks, and motor owner tel. If it is still on, I will try to call him personally and ask some questions, hope he will answer to call.
Well, You have better design scale, guess it will be faster in RPM
Thanks for detailed explanation of your design. I really appreciate it!

How you are going to get power from motor? high voltage static energy to capacitors or simple impulse coils with capacitors to discharge them to batts?Are you able to share that or I am asking too much Sir?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 03, 2011, 03:15:07 AM

IF I can get it to run at all.


I did not understand why Robert need ferrits to glue magnets to brass round plate...I am able to shape magnets relevantly to get good Radius by diamond dry disk on the bottom, but sure Robert also had such tools. It is big and only question for me, moreover I can not see any ferrits  on this motor design absolutely...
may be my English is too weak to understand what he is advising but I really do not understand this sentence:
I think I am getting old and already became the blind man:(

<Another important issue is that the rotor wheel is not made or covered with magnets. It is made with ferrite pieces. Ferrite is strongly attracted to magnets. You can't glue opposing neo magnets that close together in a line without them flying all over the place.>

and one more thing dear Scorch, in my drawing you can see exact shape of motor camshaft, I think , if you are able to scale it and copy to paper to get it on PVC then your motor will work as it is in the movie.It is very important part with its shape!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 03, 2011, 08:14:59 PM

The brass drum / rotor does not have any magnets on it.
What looks like magnets on the rotor are merely nickel plated ferrite rods that LOOK like neodymium magnets.

The ferrite rods I am going to use are off the shelf 10mm X 20mm ferrite rods from newark.
See:  http://www.newark.com/ferroxcube/rod10-20-4b1/ferrite-rod-20x10mm/dp/63R5820
They are grey in color (not nickel plated) and a little longer than I would like to use; but is the only thing I could find "off-the-shelf", on the Internet, without special order.
And maybe the longer length will help make up for my slightly smaller rotor.

The ONLY magnets in this system are:
#1 Stator magnet on top.
#2 Trigger magnet on bottom.

It is a simple attraction system with two magnets attracting a ferrous V track towards them.
The top stator is a variable position magnet sitting on a spring that can also be lifted away from the track as needed.
The bottom trigger is a fixed position, "on-off", magnet only used for a split second at the right time.

The stator magnet on top is attracting the wider part of the V shaped "track" towards it.
The CHALLENGE is to lift the stator magnet away from the from the track at just the right point so it does not attract back, in the wrong the direction, resulting in a locked rotor.

There is also another magnet on the bottom also operating to attract at exactly the right point to keep the rotation turning.

There are many demonstrations of a V-track on the internet such as this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2aZ3llqok
Which uses magnets in both the track and the car BUT I suspect the same motion may be accomplished with magnets on just the car and iron rods, or ferrites, in the track.

There is also a brass weight in the rotor.
I do not know the significance of this brass weight.
Was it used merely to balance the rotor?
Or is it used to UN-balance the rotor and provide a "gravity assist" at a certain point of rotation?
If so; I would suspect this is only in play to get the motor to self start.
And once running centrifugal force will override gravitational force.

The questions I would have for Robert are:

-Is the brass weight for balance or gravity assist?

-Is the paired magnet at the bottom configured with same poles pushed together to create a narrow beam of magnetic force?

-Which direction are the magnetic poles facing?
IE: North up, North down, North towards direction of rotation or away from direction of rotation.

-And is the same true for both the stator and the trigger or are they different?

This may take a lot of experimentation to find these answers.
I will start with just North of both magnets, facing rotor, before trying anything unusual such as a focused beam which can be quite a challenge to force same poles together of a pair of neodymium magnets then attach them to a brass plate without them flying apart. . .

I like to believe this will not be necessary and he merely used two magnets because that's what he had on hand.
And a single .500"W X .500"D X .250T magnet will work just as well because all it has to do is attract at the right time.

It is my firm belief this motor video is not fake and this can be replicated.
If you can make a repeated "V" pattern track that will carry a car along it's entire length (see youtube) then you can ALSO make a spinning rotor with the right kind of magnetic commutation (switching) of a single "V".

}:>





I did not understand why Robert need ferrits to glue magnets to brass round plate...I am able to shape magnets relevantly to get good Radius by diamond dry disk on the bottom, but sure Robert also had such tools. It is big and only question for me, moreover I can not see any ferrits  on this motor design absolutely...
may be my English is too weak to understand what he is advising but I really do not understand this sentence:
I think I am getting old and already became the blind man:(

<Another important issue is that the rotor wheel is not made or covered with magnets. It is made with ferrite pieces. Ferrite is strongly attracted to magnets. You can't glue opposing neo magnets that close together in a line without them flying all over the place.>

and one more thing dear Scorch, in my drawing you can see exact shape of motor camshaft, I think , if you are able to scale it and copy to paper to get it on PVC then your motor will work as it is in the movie.It is very important part with its shape!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 03, 2011, 10:32:04 PM
Hi dear Scorch, please find my step by step answers below to you post.

The brass drum / rotor does not have any magnets on it.
What looks like magnets on the rotor are merely nickel plated ferrite rods that LOOK like neodymium magnets.
OK thanks, now I understand but , sorry, as far as I am going to get power from dram I need to use Neo magnets at the both sides to have more torque. see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIEJ0vMnhjg and my first try from HDD magnets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlsLBikVerE - it is my inexpencive testbase. I am "playing" with this rotor everyday:) It is from the EPP foam. I made it on my own construcrted Foam CNC hardware in 2 min:) I am going to upload new video to my channel MrArrow1961 soon. So, you will be keepposted if come to my Tube sometime..there is my videos about my own used technologies, RC fligths, my Cad software research and results, lot of learning materials about CNC ,Rhino cad's etc. Thanks for watching Sir!
The ferrite rods I am going to use are off the shelf 10mm X 20mm ferrite rods from newark.
See:  http://www.newark.com/ferroxcube/rod10-20-4b1/ferrite-rod-20x10mm/dp/63R5820
They are grey in color (not nickel plated) and a little longer than I would like to use; but is the only thing I could find "off-the-shelf", on the Internet, without special order.
And maybe the longer length will help make up for my slightly smaller rotor.
OK, understand, thanks for information about the ferrite nesting place:)
Ferrites that are not plated with Nickel will not work in magnetic field effectively based on the known  causes – magnet will pull more effectively if it has in front of it more ferromagnetic metals such as iron, nickel etc. 
The ONLY magnets in this system are:
#1 Stator magnet on top.
#2 Trigger magnet on bottom.
OK
It is a simple attraction system with two magnets attracting a ferrous V track towards them.
The top stator is a variable position magnet sitting on a spring that can also be lifted away from the track as needed.
The bottom trigger is a fixed position, "on-off", magnet only used for a split second at the right time.
This ferrites( if I will find nickel plated once)  I will check up at the next project of mine, not at this time
The stator magnet on top is attracting the wider part of the V shaped "track" towards it.
The CHALLENGE is to lift the stator magnet away from the from the track at just the right point so it does not attract back, in the wrong the direction, resulting in a locked rotor.
Yes agree.
There is also another magnet on the bottom also operating to attract at exactly the right point to keep the rotation turning.
Yes agree
There are many demonstrations of a V-track on the internet such as this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2aZ3llqok
Which uses magnets in both the track and the car BUT I suspect the same motion may be accomplished with magnets on just the car and iron rods, or ferrites, in the track.
This video is very good demonstration how magnet-magnet V-gate is working. Same effect we have in Roobert33 motor, but less powerful I guess as fаr as we will not have there 2 side V-Gате magnet energy sum, that is my firm belief based on my own experiments with V-gate shape installed magnets and clear, non magnetic ferrites.
There is also a brass weight in the rotor.
I do not know the significance of this brass weight.
1.Was it used merely to balance the rotor?
2.Or is it used to UN-balance the rotor and provide a "gravity assist" at a certain point of rotation?
If so; I would suspect this is only in play to get the motor to self start.
And once running centrifugal force will override gravitational force.
The questions I would have for Robert are:
3 -Is the brass weight for balance or gravity assist?
4 -Is the paired magnet at the bottom configured with same poles pushed together to create a narrow beam of magnetic force?
5 -Which direction are the magnetic poles facing?
IE: North up, North down, North towards direction of rotation or away from direction of rotation.
6-And is the same true for both the stator and the trigger or are they different?
I put numbers on your question to simplify my answers if you don’t mind Sir:)
1)- My opinion - it is just nice and simple material that was used by Rob33, it is adding weight and nothing doing with mechanical or magnet field balancing.
2) see my opinion above at 1) answer
3) My opinion - If you mean brass short finger insertion into the ply of dram wall, then this is mechanical balancing to get first small moment to pass every time  dram it self like “flywheel”  dead point.
This is most difficult part to find exact place (point) to put it in every new dram like that.
4) each magnet line of at V structure has same pole e.g. let say left side N pole on the top and right side S pole on the top. When you will try to install them from Neo you will get force that will arrest your movements and exact targeting of magnets at their place. So be prepared to stand against of that confrontation force as far as by my calculations gap between the magnets only 2mm for D= ½” magnets. If you are going to use smaller magnets then reduce that gap to minimum to get approx solid magnet line from all magnets. As minimum gap between magnets that less subsidence of polelines between them.
5) see my answer above at point 4)
6) About top magnet - dram North side magnets has to see above same pole – North and dram South V-gate line has to see above same pole – South
About bottom magnet – I am not sure, need to construct my dram to check it, but to run a few steps forward I will copy the same position for bottom magnets to dram as the top one.
This may take a lot of experimentation to find these answers.
I will start with just North of both magnets, facing rotor, before trying anything unusual such as a focused beam which can be quite a challenge to force same poles together of a pair of neodymium magnets then attach them to a brass plate without them flying apart. . .
Not agree:) I made it, its working as I said above, try to use may experience, guess and hope you will become happy to see easy result just with 1 bullet shoot:)
I like to believe this will not be necessary and he merely used two magnets because that's what he had on hand.
And a single .500"W X .500"D X .250T magnet will work just as well because all it has to do is attract at the right time.
Agree, just all magnets or ferrites  has to have sharp same height and other dimensions. Height is most critical staff. Take a note.
It is my firm belief this motor video is not fake and this can be replicated.
If you can make a repeated "V" pattern track that will carry a car along it's entire length (see youtube) then you can ALSO make a spinning rotor with the right kind of magnetic commutation (switching) of a single "V".
Well, dear Scorch, V-gate principle IS WORKING, believe me, I am not bad and alive Armenian engineer with old "Soviet" wide knowledge base:)
Thanks for your information and help to me, I really appreciate to communicate with you and be effective and helpful for your project as well with my shared information. Shared info coming only from my own experience, no advertisements , no tricks, not an idea – just from practical working experiments.

Hope my post and answers will not disappoint by its content Mr. Robert H. Calloway. This long lasting post was only my tech opinon and I love to know if it will be loved by my namesake - Genius Engineer from Texas Mr. Robert H. Calloway

P.S. If only nickel plated ferrites on dram working with up and down magnets at motor it means for me that Genius Engineer from Texas Mr. Robert H. Calloway show his tuff middle finger up to any fundomental knowledge base man in the all over the World! Thanks Rob!


Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 04, 2011, 07:26:40 PM
Roobert33 isn't  "Mr.Robert H. Calloway"
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 05, 2011, 12:57:04 AM
Roobert33 isn't  "Mr.Robert H. Calloway"
Hi dear Rob, is this your motor we are discussing here? if yes I am completely confused because this is your first post here from November 17, 2010, 11:47:43 AM »Sir.Probably you were too busy, dont you? If you the owner of the motor are you able to share with us details or this is already closed confidential issue?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 05, 2011, 01:39:50 AM
Roobert33 isn't  "Mr.Robert H. Calloway"

Really?
Interesting!
Welcome aboard.
Hope you can help.

Please forgive my skepticism but; by all outward appearances, of Mr. Calloway's web site, it would seem he has SOMETHING to do with it even if its not his original engineering.

Are you claiming to be the same Robert33 who built the device and produced the video?

If so then I accept your claim on condition you answer some questions regarding 'your device'.
Should you fail to answer these questions honorably; then my acceptance is hereby withdrawn and you may be judged by all paying attention here.

-Why have you waited nearly a year to create an account and make an appearance here?
>
-Why is your device on Mr. Calloway's web site as one of the "projects"?
>
-Are you willing to answer some specific questions regarding this device?
>
-Are you like those of us trying to help the future of this planet by exploring alternative energy systems?
>

Please forgive me for asking all this.

Kindest regards;
Scorch.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 05, 2011, 02:52:39 AM
My main interest, right now, is merely to replicate what is in the video before attempting any changes.

As far as I know; nickel is not a ferromagnetic metal.
And nickel plating of the ferrite rods is more likely for appearance, and preservation of the ferrite materials, than actual performance.

I have seen both the videos you linked.
Still waiting to see a self runner.

The challenge you are faced with, by using magnets instead of ferrites, not only will your rotor be heavier, there will be a much stronger pull against the stator and trigger magnets which means the cam will have to work a lot harder typically resulting in a stalled rotor.

Roobert's original design is very lightweight and requires very little attraction to turn the rotor.

Everything I have "shared" is simply my own observations* of the video and what little I know about the behavior of magnets.

*One of the very first things I noticed in the video is a classic "hour glass" reflection on the end of ferrite pieces.
This is strong evidence these are not neodymium magnets. But, in fact, a machined part.

What is amazing to me is that, after 500+ posts, and many attempts to replicate, nobody even mentioned ferrites in this forum for nearly a year.
That is not until I came in here and brought it up.
This despite the fact its right there on Calloway's web site.

And then, suddenly, just a few days after I posted here and provided a couple pictures and ideas, roobert33 magically appears and makes the astounding claim that Robert Calloway is not roobert33...

What should we think about this?
Why this sudden appearance after all this time?
And if its not Calloway's project; why is it on Calloway's web site?
Is he merely another observer of the device video such as I?

Have I said or created something that hits really close to home?
Did somebody pester Mr. Calloway to the point he created the roobert33 account just to make this statement?

I am merely an explorer with many questions; not answers.

}:>

Hi dear Scorch, please find my step by step answers below to you post.
OK thanks, now I understand but , sorry, as far as I am going to get power from dram I need to use Neo magnets at the both sides to have more torque. see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIEJ0vMnhjg and my first try from HDD magnets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlsLBikVerE - it is my inexpencive testbase. I am "playing" with this rotor everyday:) It is from the EPP foam. I made it on my own construcrted Foam CNC hardware in 2 min:) I am going to upload new video to my channel MrArrow1961 soon. So, you will be keepposted if come to my Tube sometime..there is my videos about my own used technologies, RC fligths, my Cad software research and results, lot of learning materials about CNC ,Rhino cad's etc. Thanks for watching Sir!OK, understand, thanks for information about the ferrite nesting place:)
Ferrites that are not plated with Nickel will not work in magnetic field effectively based on the known  causes – magnet will pull more effectively if it has in front of it more ferromagnetic metals such as iron, nickel etc.  OKThis ferrites( if I will find nickel plated once)  I will check up at the next project of mine, not at this timeYes agree.Yes agreeThis video is very good demonstration how magnet-magnet V-gate is working. Same effect we have in Roobert33 motor, but less powerful I guess as fаr as we will not have there 2 side V-Gате magnet energy sum, that is my firm belief based on my own experiments with V-gate shape installed magnets and clear, non magnetic ferrites.I put numbers on your question to simplify my answers if you don’t mind Sir:)
1)- My opinion - it is just nice and simple material that was used by Rob33, it is adding weight and nothing doing with mechanical or magnet field balancing.
2) see my opinion above at 1) answer
3) My opinion - If you mean brass short finger insertion into the ply of dram wall, then this is mechanical balancing to get first small moment to pass every time  dram it self like “flywheel”  dead point.
This is most difficult part to find exact place (point) to put it in every new dram like that.
4) each magnet line of at V structure has same pole e.g. let say left side N pole on the top and right side S pole on the top. When you will try to install them from Neo you will get force that will arrest your movements and exact targeting of magnets at their place. So be prepared to stand against of that confrontation force as far as by my calculations gap between the magnets only 2mm for D= ½” magnets. If you are going to use smaller magnets then reduce that gap to minimum to get approx solid magnet line from all magnets. As minimum gap between magnets that less subsidence of polelines between them.
5) see my answer above at point 4)
6) About top magnet - dram North side magnets has to see above same pole – North and dram South V-gate line has to see above same pole – South
About bottom magnet – I am not sure, need to construct my dram to check it, but to run a few steps forward I will copy the same position for bottom magnets to dram as the top one.Not agree:) I made it, its working as I said above, try to use may experience, guess and hope you will become happy to see easy result just with 1 bullet shoot:)Agree, just all magnets or ferrites  has to have sharp same height and other dimensions. Height is most critical staff. Take a note.Well, dear Scorch, V-gate principle IS WORKING, believe me, I am not bad and alive Armenian engineer with old "Soviet" wide knowledge base:)
Thanks for your information and help to me, I really appreciate to communicate with you and be effective and helpful for your project as well with my shared information. Shared info coming only from my own experience, no advertisements , no tricks, not an idea – just from practical working experiments.

Hope my post and answers will not disappoint by its content Mr. Robert H. Calloway. This long lasting post was only my tech opinon and I love to know if it will be loved by my namesake - Genius Engineer from Texas Mr. Robert H. Calloway

P.S. If only nickel plated ferrites on dram working with up and down magnets at motor it means for me that Genius Engineer from Texas Mr. Robert H. Calloway show his tuff middle finger up to any fundomental knowledge base man in the all over the World! Thanks Rob!


Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 05, 2011, 12:40:57 PM
Hi All,
what do you think about this video from
Roobert33:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus

It reminds me of the principle of the Finsrud machine,
but here puts it to work as a real selfrunning permanent magnet powered
motor.

Is this the holy grail we have been looking for ?

It seems to combine magnetic fields and gravity fields to produce
a working magnet motor.

Please comment.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Hi dear Stefan,
as far as you are administrator here and can see almost everything in server communication traffic you are kindly asked to help us and verify - confirm if new user named as “roobert33” is the same person that pass this motor video to you to put it in your youtube channel?

Thanks in advance for help Sir

P.S. to roobert33 - Sorry Sir for such question to forum admin.If you are really Roobert33 then there is no problem for you and it is grate honor for us to see you in this topic even after 1 year!
Dear roobert33 are you English speaking man???
You know we know by heart motor Creator right hand from video. Are you able to make new picture of your right hand and share picture with us to verify your motor owner personality?

If we will not have here any verification from you or forum administration guess nobody will continue communication with you Sir.

Thanks in advanced for right understanding in such verification.I am engineer and need to know if I am speaking with motor author do not loose time and efforts

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 05, 2011, 02:03:01 PM
Hi, I will answer to your questions, give me a few days. Thanks!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 05, 2011, 03:30:24 PM
Hi, I will answer to your questions, give me a few days. Thanks!
Hi again dear Rob, are you able to make new move for 10 min with same motor and upload it to Youtube again?
Why I am asking - at the end I had noticed some RPM auto degradation and then you had stop rotor.
I need to see if it is possible more longer behavior of running rotor.
If I am asking too much from you, then take my deep apology Sir
Truly
Rob
P.S. by the way such new video will be good verification that Roobert33 is the same person with roobert33 here.
If you are in trouble with video huge size for 10 min then I can recomend you to download and install nice, small and free software
here - http://atube-catcher.dsnetwb.com/video/
It has built in video converter (drug and drop window) and able to cut big size videos to very small ones almost without loosing video and audio quality.You just need to choose in video converter this codec, it is Youtube relevant format.
http://s017.radikal.ru/i439/1111/1f/7c2586ad1d54.jpg
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 05, 2011, 04:40:36 PM
@Arrow
Tomorrow, I will answer your questions, waiting, you can also write to me privately on my channel "Roobert33" on YouTube. This is my...
 http://www.youtube.com/user/Roobert33?feature=mhee
Bye!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 05, 2011, 05:58:23 PM
@Arrow
Tomorrow, I will answer your questions, waiting, you can also write to me privately on my channel "Roobert33" on YouTube. This is my...
 http://www.youtube.com/user/Roobert33?feature=mhee
Bye!
Dear Rob, I don't know how much private mesages in Tube account, so my mail is drvatson@yahoo.com
This is really private way to communicate.Open for communication with any one from here, and ready to share 100% my info and results.No problem, because this is my position to the relevant companies that closed all this staff from all of us!
If I will get result on 100% then it (tech staff drawings ets) will be pass cloning on 100% procedures for everyone free of charge on 100%.
such things must be open source as powerfull UNIX OS ets...
I have been at your tube account about 20 days ago before coming here to this forum and have seen your experiments with high voltage etc.
Thanks for information, I will wait.
Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 05, 2011, 11:54:03 PM
As far as I know; nickel is not a ferromagnetic metal.
And nickel plating of the ferrite rods is more likely for appearance, and preservation of the ferrite materials, than actual performance.
Hi dear Scorch, here below link to photo materials from one of my docs that telling about Nickel, Cobalt and Fe is a ferromagnetic metals. http://s017.radikal.ru/i429/1111/6b/f6cc89595f1b.jpg

Mean time I want to share my works progress - I had completely destroy my first try rotor as far as 10% of magnets at my rotor degraded up to almost zero. So, my devise for future - never let them connect without gap it is killing magnets very fast(in my case 2 weeks) Problem was at the same pole magnets physical connection between the magnets when I had glue them up to foam dram.Now I decided to start from simple flat V-gate model and here is my works progress. http://s017.radikal.ru/i403/1111/aa/107794fb6ea5.jpg
I must find relevant gap between the magnets from HDD that I have as far as I dont have good    
Magnetic Field Viewer Card it is becoming hard work:(
I found this one in the net.Do you think if this is right choice to buy?
http://www.teachersource.com/ElectricityAndMagnetism/EddyCurrentsAndMagneticFields/MagneticFieldViewerCard.aspx


Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 06, 2011, 12:31:28 AM

I understand what you are saying about nickel.
This is not a concern for me right now.

Just trying to replicate what I see in the video without changing anything but also not prepared, at this time, to special order any nickel plated ferrites, not without specifications including dimensions and the specific ferrite formula that was used.
This would be a good question for roobert33. Another question I have: Is the trigger/switch (Bottom magnet) spring loaded?

As far as the magnetic film card is concerned, it seems to be a good price and should help you find the lines of force.
And, yes, neodymium magnets can be very powerful and they are also very brittle and easily damaged if allowed to snap against each other.
So, don't do that thing!  ;)

}:>


Hi dear Scorch, here below link to photo materials from one of my docs that telling about Nickel, Cobalt and Fe is a ferromagnetic metals. http://s017.radikal.ru/i429/1111/6b/f6cc89595f1b.jpg

Mean time I want to share my works progress - I had completely destroy my first try rotor as far as 10% of magnets at my rotor degraded up to almost zero. So, my devise for future - never let them connect without gap it is killing magnets very fast(in my case 2 weeks) Problem was at the same pole magnets physical connection between the magnets when I had glue them up to foam dram.Now I decided to start from simple flat V-gate model and here is my works progress. http://s017.radikal.ru/i403/1111/aa/107794fb6ea5.jpg
I must find relevant gap between the magnets from HDD that I have as far as I dont have good    
Magnetic Field Viewer Card it is becoming hard work:(
I found this one in the net.Do you think if this is right choice to buy?
http://www.teachersource.com/ElectricityAndMagnetism/EddyCurrentsAndMagneticFields/MagneticFieldViewerCard.aspx


Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 06, 2011, 02:29:45 AM
Before talking about me and my videos, I wanted to clarify a very important thing, I'm not "Mr. Robert H. Calloway," I don't know this gentleman and I don't even know what he does, I'm Italian, while this person is of Texas!

I try to answer your questions ...
A year ago, when I realized my video of the "V-gate" and I posted it on YT, I not remotely imagine that it would have been criticized on both my video and on my person. But, if there have been criticisms and maybe there will still be, all this have deserved myself, as the above video is not true, it was just a bad joke ...
Also a year ago, after sending my video on YT, Mr. Stefan "overunitydotcom" wrote me and telling me, if I gave him the permission to post my video on his channel and I answered yes!
After a week though, I realized the grave error of my video and I immediately erased it from YT. But it was too late....
On the same day I wrote back telling Stefan that my video was not good and that was just a bad joke. So, I told him that the "V-gate" revolved with a reel that I had inside my shirt ....
When I wrote to Stefan, I had a confused mind for that my video, because in those days I didn't know who meet first in private messages, criticism and to the many questions posed to me by persons on the operation of the "V-gate". But the most challenging for me was having to give explanations about the coil that I had inside the shirt, but I could not answer them, because the history of the coil was invented by me ...
Without thinking, the first thing that came in my mind was to write to Stefan telling him the story of the coil. But, in reality, I had to tell him precisely the truth that the device was powered by a jet of compressed air!
I do not know why I behaved that way!

I really like to do experiments on "free energy" and I'm not totally against it or to put a spoke in the wheels to people who have the same idea ... It 'a very beautiful and fascinating thing for those who perform research on this topic.
If I wrote just now, after a year, it's only for the fact that "Mr. Scorch" has made a perfect copy of my "V-gate" in great detail and I can only praise him ^ __ ^
I also wrote, because I deeply regret deceiving people who trust of success on the idea of my "V-gate" and also to avoid to waste time for something that doesn't work. Unfortunately, my "V-gate" doesn't work with the pull of the magnets, the rods placed upon it are aluminum.
I only hope that one day someone will find the solution for a truly innovative and reliable mechanism ...

Greetings to All ...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: ramset on November 06, 2011, 02:59:55 AM
Thanks for the "man up"[confession]
Robert33

I remember speaking with Mr. Calloway back when this all happened,.......... you are not him!

He"s a nice fellow from Texas that says this type design does work!!
We have another member here Ehrfinder he has one that works like this but he's not sharing?

Have a good life Bud!

Chet

PS
I just remembered   ,There is a man that lives close to me William Landon Jr. an aerospace engineer [retired]
He has a device he has been trying to patent for several years now [there's a thread here somewhere]

A magnet motor
He told me if he's had no luck by December to stop by and see him and we'll have a nice long Open source[I hope ] talk!

Which I will of course share here.......
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 06, 2011, 03:37:52 AM

I only hope that one day someone will find the solution for a truly innovative and reliable mechanism ...

Greetings to All ...

:) Well, I dont know where is the true or other things with the air or etc...but this guy in video really running it...yes by hands , constructed buy kid who is playing with magnets - but principle the same...look at its traction power, even at this badly made not balanced motor it is powerfull without any mesurments...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVzJwKhN0os

very "nice" bla bla forum of confenssions from you guys...:( good and vulgar trick !
Now we have Italian man with his motor here (I had look to his tube channel and catch his right hand "configuration" etc., that was on first video 1:1 his hand guys... after 1 hour I am reading here confession that motor is fake...Roobert 33 not Roobert 33... what is going on here guys???Shall I believe to my eyes or such fake confessions? Where is the motor of Mr. Calloway guys? sold to punks?:)))) I guess you will find the next trick answer...some people here are very creative to bla bla...
Air runnig aluminium motor?:))) ROFL where is the blades, props and wings roobert 33? Why it is not flying in the air?:), I have seen your hand Sir at your tube, and motor video has the same right hand... what elese you can say as confession that you dont want to share its simple structure? no problem, keep it for your kids to say our FATHER made it for world but big uncle took it away... I will find out structure of motor myself in 2 weeks:) Too late guys...read this US patent http://s004.radikal.ru/i208/1111/ea/b76c13f4b637.tif

Well prepared fairy tale is here guys, nothing else - thanks a lot for "grate support" to understand what is going on in this forum.Now I can understand why economic crisis on the world...People start to lie by ton..no trust - no money...no alien ideology as USSR and its communism, no war,no enemy, no targets...we need such targets to pump pokets of punks with money dont you?:))) Thought I live in the old USSR country of not frighted fools..Guess it is already all of the world in this situation...guess self distruction going to happen on the planet to kill lazy-bones not creative idiots...they are too many as insects on the planet...

This motor and video is working one! Only one man in the world know it's real sizes and structure and it is not from the long list of people that talking here it is not even Mr. Calloway sorry - because there are no second 10 min same motor working video evidence with creator face in the frames.

Good by guys , you are not serious here!.sorry can not see anymore this forum...

Dear Scorch you have here my e-mail adress, if you need help contact with me...this guys playing with us with our free time to create new I guess.I dont believe to anybody here anymore!

P.S. guys dont even try to play with my address, it its under the huge network monitoring as far as I am active Chief Engineer of largest Telecom IT Data Center in Armenia.I can see everything in the networks as network professional. dont be kids...

Furthermore, dont forget Armenian guys won World Chess Champion sheep 2011...http://rus.azatutyun.am/content/article/24276893.html
We are many here like that our guys smart,this is style of our life! I am proud of that - don’t play "chess" with us in other e.g. mathematics and logical fields!

We are peace-loving nation, creative free and dont like the wars all of our 2790 years of Armenian history


See you in next life:)
Truly
Rob
Armenia
Yerevan

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 06, 2011, 03:46:04 PM
Hi Ramset, thank you for your understanding. For me, it was only right to tell the truth.
A greeting  :)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 06, 2011, 03:48:03 PM
Hi Arrow, thanks for your comment!
I'll explain briefly how my video was made.
The pipe that blew air was not visible, carefully positioned on a pole next to and above the "V-gate", so to hide the trick ... I calculated the jet of air to an optimal position to avoid to go nor too slowly nor too fast. The air jet was less than the weight of the "V-gate", the air in any way it could move.
In practice, I had free hands and I could manage the movement ...
And doesn't it seem strange that I put a music on the video to cover up something that could help you discover the trick?
 
I'll tell you frankly, if I could go back to a year ago, certainly now that video wouldn't be viewing on the channel of Mr. Stefan and others ...

I wanted to tell you again, I understand very well that perhaps my story has been bothering you and believe me, also I do not like this thing, though, I had to tell the truth. Sometimes we must also accept the negative facts to go on ...
I've noticed that you are a very intelligent and educated man, you have a lot of passion and desire in the field of "free energy" and surely, sooner or later you'll get something good  ;)
A greeting, bye  :)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 06, 2011, 04:39:29 PM
Hi Arrow, thanks for your comment!
I'll explain briefly how my video was made.
The pipe that blew air was not visible, carefully positioned on a pole next to and above the "V-gate", so to hide the trick ... I calculated the jet of air to an optimal position to avoid to go nor too slowly nor too fast. The air jet was less than the weight of the "V-gate", the air in any way it could move.
In practice, I had free hands and I could manage the movement ...
And doesn't it seem strange that I put a music on the video to cover up something that could help you discover the trick?
 
I'll tell you frankly, if I could go back to a year ago, certainly now that video wouldn't be viewing on the channel of Mr. Stefan and others ...

I wanted to tell you again, I understand very well that perhaps my story has been bothering you and believe me, also I do not like this thing, though, I had to tell the truth. Sometimes we must also accept the negative facts to go on ...
I've noticed that you are a very intelligent and educated man, you have a lot of passion and desire in the field of "free energy" and surely, sooner or later you'll get something good  ;)
A greeting, bye  :)
Robert, show me new good 10 min video with air pipe pumping style etc, unhide all what you have done as trick, show me not magnetic bar, rotor with metal many nails and I belive to your confession here, no other way as far as I know very well airdinamics, material weight etc. See my topic in RCDESIGN ( 3-rd modeling forum in the world ) to understand my level deep in tech things understanding. http://forum.rcdesign.ru/f82/thread246908.html

Mean time this is only words for me, no evidence even that motor still near you:)
If I will see other motor in tricks demonstration or if you will say that motor terminated, sold because you need money, then it means for me that you dont want to fight  for the true! You are Italian, I know what is going on even in your blood vessel now, I have many Italian good friends. I know your passion Sir! As far as you are able to construct copy of your motor in 6 days - I want to see new video in 2 days ,(november 9-24.00) otherwise this your confession of man who is under the grate moral and physical pressure of stupid punks! I have seen your hands Robert - where is motor??????

Someone? show motor 2-nd time with all unhide tricks? dose anyone have such MAN courage?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 06, 2011, 05:41:56 PM
Okay, if you don't believe to my confession, in two days from now, you'll see here on the forum my photos of all the steps to replay the scene of my video.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 06, 2011, 08:31:02 PM
Please forgive my assumption that Robert Calloway is roobert33.
An assumption based on what Mr. Calloway presents on his own site as well as the PESN site where, in the very first paragraph, it clearly states:

"It turns out that the inventor is Robert H. Calloway, who says it has been running continuously.  Rotation data posted."
See:  http://pesn.com/2010/12/27/9501745_Roober33_V-gate_magnet_motor_for_real/

Further reading will also reveal these statements:

"Roobert33 is Robert H. Calloway
Steve also told me that he had just talked to Robert Calloway of Texas, USA, and that "he is Roobert33".  Robert has been working on magnet motors for years, as can be seen from his website: http://www.CallowayEngines.com (backup)
According to Steve, Robert told him "it works perfect" and that it has been running continuously for "several weeks".  "It's lighting a light in front of me right now."


Dear Mr. Roobert33; thank you for the compliment on what I threw together the other day when I had few hours of free time.

Mr. Roobert33; be advised I honorably accept, upon proof of claim, your claim you are the inventor, and that you faked it, and that Robert, Steve, and everybody else involved at PESN are liars, upon proof of your claim such as ORIGINAL, un-edited, video showing a wider angle and/or an audio track in which I can clearly hear the noises of the cam and rotor along with an air gun at the same time. Or additional new video of the device, still in your possession, revealing the rotor materials are NOT attracted to a magnet. Or a new video REPRODUCTION of what you produced before (allegedly) including the METHOD in which you, allegedly, faked it. Including, but not limited to, the accelerations that can be seen in the original video as the stator and trigger magnets do their thing.

Upon FAILURE to prove the claim, it may be advisable that brand new user roobert33's statements be subject to extreme skepticism, removal from the record, and possible banishment.
And, even if he does manage to demonstrate how this device might be faked, would this be relevant?
Is it possible to build both the real deal and an exact, fake, version with non-ferrous rods?
Just because I can make a conventional electric motor spin, with an off-camera air gun, does this mean said motor is a "fake device"?

BTW: Its still my firm belief that if a repeated V-track results in continued forward motion such as these videos depict:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u3fOwkiM7U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2yHsVqA5Po
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2aZ3llqok

Then it most certainly is possible to build a rotary device such as the namesake of THIS forum thread.

What did JB say in the first video?
He said: "Don't give up!"

Scorch G. Dragon.

}:>

PS:
The ferrites have arrived.
Probably going to build a better rotor.
Still waiting on cam bearing that will fit a 0.3125" wood dowel.


Before talking about me and my videos, I wanted to clarify a very important thing, I'm not "Mr. Robert H. Calloway," I don't know this gentleman and I don't even know what he does, I'm Italian, while this person is of Texas!

If I wrote just now, after a year, it's only for the fact that "Mr. Scorch" has made a perfect copy of my "V-gate" in great detail and I can only praise him ^ __ ^
I also wrote, because I deeply regret deceiving people who trust of success on the idea of my "V-gate" and also to avoid to waste time for something that doesn't work. Unfortunately, my "V-gate" doesn't work with the pull of the magnets, the rods placed upon it are aluminum.
I only hope that one day someone will find the solution for a truly innovative and reliable mechanism ...

Greetings to All ...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 06, 2011, 09:21:35 PM
Okay, if you don't believe to my confession, in two days from now, you'll see here on the forum my photos of all the steps to replay the scene of my video.

Rob, I have very good friends in local TV 3 different channels.  I have very good reputation in one very!!!!! reach family here in Armenia, cant tell the name sorry.
I can help you to become famous in Armenia, from Armenia it will run to Armenian Diaspora in US to their TV channels. All Armenia Diaspora is about 6-7 million Armenian people all over the world. Do you need patents ?NO! Can we make souvenirs Sir? Yes! Is market ready to see such souvenirs? Yes! Open market space. It has to be cheap and this is the real aggressive strategy to spread it all of the world as working Idea of new motor generation. Then some one clever will catch souvenir idea and will have willing to get power from it – but this is already other story, I will stop here. for a while.Actually I dont care who will be the first with power, I will try to be first with you in its massive production, if you dont mind?:)
Are you ready to feed your kids better Sir? I am ready! Let's do it together it is more efective and funny:) All Cad drawings, tech. documentation from me, all conections to people here in Armenia from me.Is that ok with you? Tech Specs we will caltulate together.

What can brings you the famous name of creator such souvenir ? Think Deep! Slow down and think again. I am not kid here to play "games". Game is over! If I said something it will be done.If you will refuse and overlap the video time shedule then be prepared to hit by your 2 hands your head because souvenires will arrive to Italia too! Promise!

So, before doing something wrong second time think about my proposal above. I dont care who was first took video explode the possibility to patent it so  - just show me motor from video exact one dont play chess again - show all how it is running, same one in details as much as it is possible, explain all underwater stones with magnets and V-gate principles if it will start souvenir mass production.May be even my connections with China ZTE factory will be activated.
If every thing will go OK with new video and I will like it without comments and remarks (not possible, but I should say I am too much prepared technically to catch and evaluate tech mistakes even in video) then we will go further with proposal.If I wil have remarks video must be re recorded.It is only condition right now.
And again I have seen your hand in your channel then in motor video. It is ok but not enough, need to see your face with good smile:) Ok Sir? do your promise to me please. you have 2 days.Oterwise proposal will be fired, sorry that the life!Reach guys dont have time to wait me and I am not able to keep them fosused too long to this motor! Thanks for understanding!
If you want to discuss video scenes that must be presented here leave me your e-mail and/or skype in Tube messaging system.

Truly
Rob
P.S. it is crazy to understand that this topic running over 1 year and nobody start mass production of such even simple souvenir haveing such high tech potencial in the base!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 06, 2011, 11:17:48 PM
@Arrow
Don't hurry things, after tomorrow I will have to prove the truth about my confession, posting another my new video exactly the same on YT.
And to prove that roobert33 is Italian and the first video of "V.gate" was done by me.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 06, 2011, 11:33:13 PM
@Arrow
Don't hurry things, after tomorrow I will have to prove the truth about my confession, posting another my new video exactly the same on YT.
And to prove that roobert33 is Italian and the first video of "V.gate" was done by me.
Rob let moderate things with video. Do you have web cam, skype? Connect to me, I will catch from my screen alive video with text chat questions ets.

and I will pass it to you for publication or if you agree I will put it to my Ytube channel with all relevant comments that you will need there.This will kill all time lost for video creation,we are not even speaking about video editing, no way! I am able to upload more than 15 min video to YTube.Got gift from YT:) To understand the quality of such PC screen video see this example:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIS6OnJylPs
You can make video in the same time by your other camera and we will have 2 camera videos from 2 sides - yours and mine!
Your camera man must be in my screen some time at the moment of his taking move around the motor for details.

and one more advise let name things correct at this time it is very important!
<roobert33 is Italian and the first video of "auto running dual pulse V-gate rotor" was done by Italian man - roobert33>
Pure flat and first V-gate liner motor/actuator patent not yours.Thanks for understanding.


Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 07, 2011, 05:04:18 PM
Regarding roobert33's unverified claim the original video was produced in Italy:

I would like to to point out that, in Italy, an entirely different power outlet configuration is used. (see attached)
Compare this to the outlet strip seen in background of the original video. (see attached)
If you look closely you can see there is a typical, American Style, outlet strip on the wall, in the background, that looks EXACTLY like this common outlet strip that I have hanging on my own wall in Colorado, USA. (See attached)

Why would somebody, who produced (allegedly) a video in Italy, be using an American outlet strip?

}:>

Edit:
I would also like to point out that the hand, in the original video, has unique patterns of colors, shapes, scars, nails, and skin folds.
Would it be reasonable to assume that if we find that hand, in that pose, we will have somebody closely involved; possibly the inventor?
Considering how simple it would be for roobert33 to take a picture of his hand, in that pose, with similar lighting and background, would it be reasonable to expect him to do this?

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 07, 2011, 06:59:20 PM
Regarding roobert33's unverified claim the original video was produced in Italy:

Dear Scorch I dont care actually why he is using US plugs or sockets, but suspect that there has to be a reason, for example his wife living in US or some where close to that country standarts and all her gadjets that she can not buy second time are US or other standarts and her husband create all relevant atmosphere for his wife in Italy to make her only happy with love...sorry I am using APC US standarts at my home in Armenia:)- I like that standart, shall I explane why? I love that sockets to see at my home..that is all my answer.
So if you will see in my videos US sockets then you shall say that video was made in US? No... so sockets not evidence.
Actually here we have very difficult situation - we have to use only our brain and knowledge base to understand where is true for us where is not true...

About motor and hand, Have you ever seen motor physically in one of the "creators" hands from 1 meter close?No, because of that you are here to know how to built it correct...Or I am wrong?

So, why we believe to one man words and dont believe to other man same words without tuff tech evidence?

At least we have here one of two men  and I want to see motor second time, may I?, or this some kind of crime from me to ask questions, and compose my own opinion in this long and not real for me story in 37 pages Sir?

I need to see motor second time - that all what I need to start make my final own decisions.But first I will  trust to man how can pass my logic with more tuff logic, I dont care to other words and things at all - just Logic! I have time for that with pleasure.

My position very neutral here and nothing can push it forward to one of the sides without having evidence.Motor for me - evidence you know why?
if working motor is After 1 year at one hand and that hand is Italian guy then he won game for me, sorry, he has less than 2 days to create same working motor from zero, can you do that if dont know how in 2 days? If yes then why we are speaking to Italian guy and not speaking with you, advise me, are you able to do that?
Please show me your working same motor and you will have my proposal in 1 Sec. you will become very famous Sir, I will do it for you and for me and for all people in the world, because based on your advise I shall construct here working motor and start to advertise your name as man who know how 100% to do this motor in any scale.
NO tricks Sir, I have very good friends here in my country who has very good friends in Armenia Diaspora...etc all over the world.

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 07, 2011, 11:46:17 PM
Please forgive me if I was not clear, but, I have already accepted roobert33's claim upon proof of his claim.

These are merely my observations and questions regarding roobert33's claim that Robert, Steve, and everybody else involved at PESN, are liars.
I am also TRYING to remain neutral and not take a position but the PESN section clearly states that Robert Calloway is the inventor.

SO, who is lying?
And what are the motives for such an elaborate, alleged, deception that allegedly continued for nearly a year?

I, too, would love to see the motor again, but yes, indeed, this is a very difficult and highly questionable situation when roobert33 waits a year, until after I have provided some dimensions and materials list, to suddenly make this appearance and claim:
#1 He built it.
#2 It's a fake.
#3 The PESN statements that Robert Calloway is the inventor are completely false.

Why here?
Why now?
Why me?
Why this sudden controversy after I pointed out the use of ferrites, tossed a few dollars worth of materials together, and generated a parts list for all to see?

Even if he does manage to reproduce the motor and demonstrate how it can be made to spin remotely, including the obvious acceleration half way through the first revolution, does this prove that it's a fake?
Think about it.
If you have a perfectly good, working, motor then demonstrate that you can spin it by remote means, does this mean your perfectly good, working, motor is a 'fake'?
And would this be any reason to discontinue this pursuit of happiness and self sufficiency?

I am not interested in fame.
Only interested in replication of what is depicted in the video and, if I can make it work, teaching others to do the same.

BTW:
The bearing that fits a .312 wood dowel just arrived today.
Now I need to work on fabrication of a non-ferrous rocker assembly for the lower magnet.
Aside from lots of trial & error adjustments required to tune this device, this rocker is the second most challenging part and I would certainly LOVE to see a close-up, high resolution, image of Robert/Roobert design and do hope roobert33 comes through with this.

Even if its fake; I would still love to see a better image of how that particular part was constructed.


}:>


Dear Scorch I dont care actually why he is using US plugs or sockets, but suspect that there has to be a reason, for example his wife living in US or some where close to that country standarts and all her gadjets that she can not buy second time are US or other standarts and her husband create all relevant atmosphere for his wife in Italy to make her only happy with love...sorry I am using APC US standarts at my home in Armenia:)- I like that standart, shall I explane why? I love that sockets to see at my home..that is all my answer.
So if you will see in my videos US sockets then you shall say that video was made in US? No... so sockets not evidence.
Actually here we have very difficult situation - we have to use only our brain and knowledge base to understand where is true for us where is not true...

About motor and hand, Have you ever seen motor physically in one of the "creators" hands from 1 meter close?No, because of that you are here to know how to built it correct...Or I am wrong?

So, why we believe to one man words and dont believe to other man same words without tuff tech evidence?

At least we have here one of two men  and I want to see motor second time, may I?, or this some kind of crime from me to ask questions, and compose my own opinion in this long and not real for me story in 37 pages Sir?

I need to see motor second time - that all what I need to start make my final own decisions.But first I will  trust to man how can pass my logic with more tuff logic, I dont care to other words and things at all - just Logic! I have time for that with pleasure.

My position very neutral here and nothing can push it forward to one of the sides without having evidence.Motor for me - evidence you know why?
if working motor is After 1 year at one hand and that hand is Italian guy then he won game for me, sorry, he has less than 2 days to create same working motor from zero, can you do that if dont know how in 2 days? If yes then why we are speaking to Italian guy and not speaking with you, advise me, are you able to do that?
Please show me your working same motor and you will have my proposal in 1 Sec. you will become very famous Sir, I will do it for you and for me and for all people in the world, because based on your advise I shall construct here working motor and start to advertise your name as man who know how 100% to do this motor in any scale.
NO tricks Sir, I have very good friends here in my country who has very good friends in Armenia Diaspora...etc all over the world.

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 08, 2011, 01:41:17 AM

One thing I noticed about that cam, not only does it lift the stator magnet on the way up, its also accepting the weight of the magnet coming back down.
Most noticeable at the beginning of the motor starting, in the video, when he pulls the pin.
The weight of the stator magnet and associated wood dowel assembly is helping to push the cam forward and rotor around.

I agree the shape is pretty important for both performance and balance and I have been trying to find the drawing you refer to.
Are you referring to file name: "dram scale.dxf"?
If not, or if you have another, better, printable version of that cam, this would certainly help.

Kindest regards;

}:>





and one more thing dear Scorch, in my drawing you can see exact shape of motor camshaft, I think , if you are able to scale it and copy to paper to get it on PVC then your motor will work as it is in the movie.It is very important part with its shape!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 08, 2011, 03:31:32 AM
....I agree the shape is pretty important for both performance and balance and I have been trying to find the drawing you refer to.
Are you referring to file name: "dram scale.dxf"?
If not, or if you have another, better, printable version of that cam, this would certainly help.

}:>
Yes dear Scorch I am referring to dram scale.dxf. Can you open it? It is AutoCad drawing format. Tell me any other good format for you and I will provide with grate pleasure for me. Just I need to have direct contact to you to pass it. Write me an e-mail and I will sent any format you wish. I can even provide the CNC format of that cam shape to you in G-code, DAT coordinates... what you prefer?

Here is the cam simple PDF scaled 1:1 version for A4 paper http://depositfiles.com/files/qiro1qd4y
Here is the full set of new updated drawings for today with full PDF support http://depositfiles.com/files/9t42b8w7y
Note - not all set of PDF in scale 1:1 as far as A3 format small to take them. Some parts I just fit to paper size with its real dimensions.
I dont like hack creators works, but if they are or some else going crazy and trying already hide second time mechanical Grail from people than they will be panished in 1 sec from the Earth of Noy from the mountines of Ararat!

I did not tested good presented cam part as far as my dram dead fast. I think there is still huge field to improve it's shape with flaxy cam apex special model. Very hard but possible model to construct but if I will construct it then this "Grail dram/rotor" will be open it's real face with real max performance. My research of cam and rotors telling me that horisontal axi running rotors are better to show more liner revolutions under the load. Most crazy thing in this motor is the following: when it is speed up its RPM it's suddenly starting to decrease its revolutions speed because radial speed of dram becomes faster than coming down liner speed of horizontal bar with magnet and magnet loosing its right timing tic position to dram magnets. Actually that is why I believe that this video is true running motor video - its show the same like my rotor bad behavior at the end of movie when creator stops it. THAT IS WHY I WANT TO SEE MOTOR SECOND TIME SIR! nothing can pass trough my sharp eyes and digital analysis of movies. I am armed here as maximum  as it is possible to evaluate any video in any format.
Note, I am busy with this motor only 3 weeks.I did not knew about it 1 year and it is making me VERRRRY sad and shame...
When I made "evrica" this video I lost my calm! Crazy looser idiot I said to myself...

Nobody in the world can make such fake video by using air gun to turn motor with right behavior but only Hollywood digital movie huge factory. I have seen same at my real and small model Sir...That is why I said I dont believe to anybody and anyone. I believe to my own experiments results!
That is why such "confessions" that we can see here tellimg me motor closed for us to copy! Nobody going to share its right size structure. But I have less  than 2 days to be sure in my words.

sorry for my bad English, I must learn it better.I need 2 weeks(hope so) In front of me real mechanical Grail - dream of people.


To:.<I am also TRYING to remain neutral and not take a position but the PESN section clearly states that Robert Calloway is the inventor.>
do you know them (PESN) personally? what is the difference already after 1 year who is inventor if 1000 of people making this motor? I need only 1 working one to start mass production of souvenir V-gate rotor  Sir and start spread it all of the world alone or with inventor, no matter in did!. Actually where is Mr.Calloway? why he is not here? why anybody else must tell us like PESN must insure us that this is his invention? why Man not with us Sir? Is he President of United States or general good engineer and human to come here and prove this motor invention with open scaled drawings and calculations? all this is bla bla bla for me, sorry dear Scorch - I cant see any tech proves! Belive me nobody can patent it anymore, it is already open source motor invetion project - so why 1-st inventor not opening his drawings after 1 year fights with patent guys? Is he going to take it to his grave? Shame on him if so because I cant see any tuff logic here in this step.This is not step from real inventor! This is not real inventor logic, this is weak man logic Sir in such bad pure brain human behavior!This is behavior of human who is not ready to competion but life is competion it self and nobody can stop it or change. If such man not ready to competion of life then this man too weak to be called inventor until Sun is shining, wind blow and ocean water is waving with full life in it!
P.S.
I decided to go forward with this set of magnets and information
http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=351
http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=146
base info:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHffliC2whk

here is my old mech lab video at my apt.:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80NTFnR3K0Q
http://s52.radikal.ru/i137/1110/52/c11cc8b47ccd.jpg
my own design cnc staff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwge2kG3DKs
works in creation 4axi CNC 600x600x150mm in progress.
my glider project in progress works too, it is copy of 1932 year Cheranovski glider, all drawings lost by KGB in 1942:)
I had recontructed it for my glider from 1 only evidence video of glider flight and so on...video classified, cant show, sorry it is real gold one!my friends find it for me as far as I am crazy and can do such works and put on to the air even chair with propeller if you order it:)
http://i077.radikal.ru/1109/8a/aa6d6e05785b.jpg
http://s001.radikal.ru/i193/1109/7b/8a3562da82f4.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_kGSmpqdw
http://i046.radikal.ru/1109/22/4be3e288fb9d.jpg
http://s58.radikal.ru/i161/1109/fc/1e2c45aa0e74.jpg
http://s013.radikal.ru/i324/1109/1b/081d050553cf.jpg
and my big babybrother real UAV, name is "Crane" as far as they are always coming home to have next generation
http://s004.radikal.ru/i205/1109/de/684596f03a33.jpg


My crazy idea is to construct this crazy good magnet dram, to put it on my next generation of planes to have electric satellite robust self charged in the air UAV.
Nobody can stop me to create even if invention will be lost or stolen ok, my mistake or my own wish to spread its structures and I will open them official for people because I HAVE them as much numbers that I will push button on my head - start new idea! This are invertors logic and mind power Sir! You have there money - I have here many good open mind reach in soul and in pockets friends.That is why it was shame on me that I did not knew about dram, now I know! Satellites electric planes will go to the sky of Armenia to keep people happy and in peace for their future generation and kids with their always on Eagle electonic eyes to the Earth of Armenia!
My grand father teach me - tell the true to people and they will never trust you - you will be free to create what ever you want God Bless you -GO and create for people!

What ever guys - do your best, I will do my and open it for all of you free!!! - be reach in soul guys, love human,sky and earth - God Bless you!

Truly
Rob
http://s017.radikal.ru/i427/1111/66/f2fd6ab3b113.jpg



Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 08, 2011, 04:24:15 PM
Da come si può osservare, i tondini sono di alluminio.
Essi non sono nè magneti, nè ferrite.
Il magnete grande sopra alla staffa è fatto di legno colorato grigio.
Il magnete piccolo in basso è fatto di legno colorato grigio.
Il peso di ottone serve a bilanciare il peso del rotore.

Questo mio "V-gate" l'ho realizzato in due giorni, circa 9 ore totali, appositamente per dimostrare che quello che io ho scritto nella mia confessione è vera ed ancor più che "sono Italiano".

Io non invierò un nuovo video del "V-gate" a YT, io vorrei evitare nuove polemiche e critiche da parte di utenti di YT.

"Mi auguro che queste mie foto soddisfino i vostri dubbi ed incertezze, io più di questo non posso fare".
               
@ Scorch,
da come hai notato, io sono apparso quì sul Forum per la prima volta dopo un anno. C'è una spiegazione a tutto questo, i motivi sono tre:

1° Da molto tempo mi premeva far sapere che "Roobert33 è Italiano", mentre l'altro uomo "Robert  è del Texas"

2° Io volevo anche a far sapere come veramente erano andati i fatti riguardante la mia storia del soffio dell'aria compressa che faceva girare il "V-gate" e che tutto non era altro che uno scherzo ideato da me.

3° Fino ad ora io non avevo mai visto quì sul Forum una persona come te ad impegnarsi seriamente e con passione con un "V-gate". Questa è anche la ragione per cui io sono quì sul Forum a complimentarmi per con te e dirti di non abbandonare mai la tua bella idea di realizzare un congegno che funzioni veramente.
Vai sempre avanti in ciò che credi...


P.s.
Da anni io cerco come te di far funzionare un "V-gate", ho realizzato molte prove e tentativi con molle di bilancio, con leve a slitta, con camme, con contrappesi, con ingranaggi e cinghie. Ma, purtroppo, alla fine l'esito è sempre lo stesso, il rotore non riesce mai a fare il giro completo...

Un caro saluto!

                                                    ======================================================================
As you can see, the rods are made of aluminum.
They are neither magnets or ferrite.
The big magnet on top of the bracket is made of colored gray wood
The small magnet at the bottom is made of colored gray wood.
The brass weight serves to balance the weight of the rotor.

I made my "V-gate" in two days, about 9 hours in total, designed to prove that what I wrote in my confession is true and even more that I am "Italian."

I didn't send a new video of the "V-gate" to YT, I would like to avoid further controversy and criticism from users YT.

I hope these my photos meet your doubts and uncertainties, I can not do more than that.
                                                                                       
@ Scorch,
from what you've noticed, I have appeared here on the Forum for the first time after one year. There is an explanation for all this, the reasons are three:

1) By a long time I wanted to let you know that "Roobert33 is Italian," while the other man "Robert is in Texas"

2) I wanted also to say you how the facts really went about my history of blowing compressed air that was running the "V-gate" and that everything was just a joke created by me.

3)  Up to now I had never seen here on the forum a person like you to engage seriously with passion with a "V-gate". This is also the reason why I am here in the Forum to compliment with you and tell you to never leave to realize your beautiful idea of a device that really works.
Go ahead in what you believe ...


P.s.
For years I try to run a "V-gate" like you, I made many tests and trials with spring budget, with levers to slide, with cams, with counterweights, gears and belts. But, unfortunately, in the end the outcome is always the same, the rotor can never do the full tour ...

A dear greeting!   


                             
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 08, 2011, 04:25:10 PM
.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 08, 2011, 04:59:17 PM

P.s.
For years I try to run a "V-gate" like you, I made many tests and trials with spring budget, with levers to slide, with cams, with counterweights, gears and belts. But, unfortunately, in the end the outcome is always the same, the rotor can never do the full tour ...

A dear greeting!                             

Un caro saluto!
Rob
Для меня все ясно! "Рооберт 33" ты мог все исправить у тебя был шанс!Будь здоров не кашляй, успехов твоей семье.
Ты все прочитал , я все стер, кто предупрежден тот вооружен уважаемый! Играйтесь дальше с Вашим именем.Пусть будет вам стыдно:)
http://www.translate.ru/
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 08, 2011, 07:37:10 PM

Thank you for the images, these do help, but, Roobert33, please forgive me as I see no verifiable proof of your claim, I am still not convinced, and still question your motives.

There are many things here that are not same as the original video including the shaft, the shape of the cam, the appearance of the rods and the magnets which appear to be a total mockup of the real thing likely assembled (or reassembled) recently.
Including spray painted wood in place of the real magnets which have a highly reflective surface in the original video.
And, BTW, I see the Italian style outlets on your equipment.

But, then, there are OTHER things that are VERY similar to the original video including the color of the backdrop, the shape and construction of the rocker, and even your hand!
But, as I have already pointed out, even if you have the original motor, and that motor is fully functional, its still possible to give the APPEARANCE of fraud.
But for what motive? Why go through all this trouble NOW? What drives you to reassemble and represent the fraud you claim to have been involved with a year ago?

Is it really just because I recently appeared here and gave my two cents?
I do not know the answers to these questions and can only speculate.
And its all irrelevant to my own efforts anyway.

So I am at a complete loss as to what to think and unable to take any position about what appears to be a false flag misdirection. . .

Time for me to show my hold card:
My very limited relationship with Mr. Robert Calloway goes all the way back to the flying dutchman projects when, about 17-18 years ago, I made my first real attempt to build a magnetic motor in the form of the Bowman motor.
See: http://www.fdp.nu/bowman/default.asp

Mr. Calloway appeared to be the primary builder on this project and he only saw me as "R. Graff" trying to build the same thing and it wasn't long before I gave up on that project in favor of other pursuits such as the helix rotory, pulsed DC systems, Marko Rodin's vortex math and rodin coils, etc.
(see "builder reports" and "follow up" for my (R. Graff) project picture and report.)

And BTW, this site ALSO has a page titled: "V-gate motor
designed by Robert Calloway" at: http://www.fdp.nu/v-gate/default.asp

My youtube page:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ScorchGD
My contractors page:
http://www.rodscontracts.ws/
My anthropomorphic art enthusiast page:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/scorch/
(includes project images and journals)

And, so, here's the deal; in addition to Steve, at PESN, personally talking to Mr. Calloway I ALSO, personally spoke with Mr. Calloway about three weeks ago merely to ask: Where can I find shiny ferrites?
And in that short, telephone, conversation I heard him say (hearsay) the following:
#1 He was involved with invention and construction of this motor.
#2 The ferrite rods were nickel plated merely for appearance.
#3 He sold the design. (to an Italian???)
#4 He is under contract which includes a non-disclosure agreement regarding the design specifics.

I informed him that I have a fair understanding of contract law and that I respect his non-disclosure agreement and I did not ask him anymore questions.
The conversation was about about 3 minutes long and I have no intention of bothering him anymore on this subject.

The status of my current replication attempt is: Still moving forward.

I found some stainless steel wood screws at the hardware store in Denver and picked up some scraps of brass at Uhric locomotive in Strasburg.
Be advised I am very lazy, have many other things to do, and I'm taking my time building this project the way I think it should be built.
So it may be a few weeks before I have anything new to report.

And, Mr. Arrow, you have presented a lot of questions for me.
I will try to address a few of these when I have more time to sort through all this.
Thank you very much for your support and I do have love and appreciation for what you are doing and hope your efforts will be successful.

Scorch G. Dragon
(A.K.A. Rodney-Brian  Graff)

}:>

.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 08, 2011, 09:13:10 PM
}:>
Dear Scorch I did not understand this #3 He sold the design. (to an Italian???)
can you explane it?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 08, 2011, 09:46:52 PM
And in that short, telephone, conversation I heard him say (hearsay) the following:
#1 He was involved with invention and construction of this motor.
#2 The ferrite rods were nickel plated merely for appearance.
#3 He sold the design. (to an Italian???)
#4 He is under contract which includes a non-disclosure agreement regarding the design specifics.

I informed him that I have a fair understanding of contract law and that I respect his non-disclosure agreement and I did not ask him anymore questions.
The conversation was about about 3 minutes long and I have no intention of bothering him anymore on this subject.

Now everything is clear for me about roobert33 oh my godness Rob, if you read this - Sorry that I had hack your motor. Modeling from non exsiting drawings based on pictures is my passion, sorry again, I did not know that you buy it, but I cant get  back DXF files from internet. I guess you lost motor potential interest, sorry.It is already here, sorry.
I was very angry that did not find it in internet as already open source staff and made reveres engineering works to create its physical dimension that explain all if we are good in magnet physics and calculations...

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 08, 2011, 10:00:39 PM
.
Rob, you are logged, I can see, so, we shall forget about new 10min video?
Short and my last question here to you:
Then(it depended from your answer) I will or not will open next details about your motor that you are holding so taff,
I swear, I cant understand you. Motor by this video is compromised to get patent, why you are holding info down, explain it 1 time and I will stop my info about your motor here?

You are playing now not from your team Rob because by your silence about my provided DXF files you are proving its right scale. Do you understand me?

Truly
Rob
Есть русская пословица - молчание знак согласия - There is a Russian proverb - silence means consent... guess you hate me already... sorry
http://www.translate.ru/
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 08, 2011, 11:04:15 PM
Maybe I have not explained me well ...
In the previous comment I wrote that I made a copy of the first V-gate in two days.
It understands very well that this my new V-gate is not the original one, even a child would understand.
The first V-gate I have sold it to a person long ago, as a way of mechanical beauty and I couldn't do the photos to it, in addition I can't  make a new video with the breath of the air that turns the toy, I would be certainly bombarded by criticism of YT users.

However, I have already explained you that the V-gate can't just work alone, if so, it would be the perpetual motion, you realize it or not? I would do the most sensational discovery of the millennium ...
And you think, I would be now here at the Forum to waste time arguing about it?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 08, 2011, 11:31:13 PM
Maybe I have not explained me well ...
In the previous comment I wrote that I made a copy of the first V-gate in two days.
It understands very well that this my new V-gate is not the original one, even a child would understand.
The first V-gate I have sold it to a person long ago, as a way of mechanical beauty and I couldn't do the photos to it, in addition I can't  make a new video with the breath of the air that turns the toy, I would be certainly bombarded by criticism of YT users.

However, I have already explained you that the V-gate can't just work alone, if so, it would be the perpetual motion, you realize it or not? I would do the most sensational discovery of the millennium ...
And you think, I would be now here at the Forum to waste time arguing about it?

:) <it would be the perpetual motion, you realize it or not? I would do the most sensational discovery of the millennium> ...:))))))))

Rob you are thinking now like most of the young Russian guys:) I am glad that you had sold out sensational discovery of the millennium  and I did not harm you with my scaled drawings of it from video - YOU BLESSED!
Now about perpetual motion:
Magnets that working on the rotor charged by human by using electricity and they have natural degradation in calm way N to S pole 1% for 10 years and 7-10% degradation if they will work N pole to N pole
Such type of work of magnets like N to N or S to S produce kinetic energy from metal magnetism that they are charged by human  with power consumption. So that power going to be degredate in 5 years but about 5 years it will run non stop if we will solve mechanical problems of cam axis, ball bearings etc

So, where we have perpetual motion? What can be forever under the SUN Sir?:)Nothing!!!
Next time dont sold such important things without doing marketing of its price!Please:)

So, please count that you sold out my future souvenir structure to Punk and that device will come back to Italia as mass product with E-bay  service and your customer will get crazy to see that they are many! I am sure he can not even evaluate it technically to reproduce:)))))))
But life reproductive. Nobody can stop it  accept nuclear war on the planet or huge comet attacks…that will destroy our planet to pieces.

 OK  You will see soon my gate running, I will give you opportunity to sold next nice motor to you clients:)))))) Grate positive move from me to you don’t you even if you said to me NO? OK:)

Have a nice day, good night guys! I have got now more or less true answer:) completely satisfied, because I understood how Europe guys thinking when they have real discovery of the millennium:))))) Crazy to understand such things but this is already facts!

MY GRATE THANKS TO ALL ROBERT'S names THAT MADE THAT discovery of the millennium and sold it without thinking about general people:)

now as fas as all things are clear I want to help you to evaluate your mistakes in pics that you show US:))

1. magnets - not the same shape and not such shiny like in video:)
2. rotor axi - in real one its screw - here simple rod - guess aluminum:)
3. rotor axi has nuts to support camshaft in pics they are absent:)
4. rotor brass in original one more narrow than in this pics:)
5. camshaft - very unique shape in original - here we can see toy, sorry:) "half moon" shape can not work like cam shaft. Camshaft cut fresh, do not polished, do not have prints on it of sliding works...:)
6. in original video we can see some kind of brass or magnet color support for spring - here in this pics support is diff. by its height and diametr:)
7. in original video spring more wide and from thin metal - here just toy without calculations:)
8. round support of motor is solid one - here we have hole in the center:)
9. top magnet supporting wood bar thin in original - here we have thick one :)
10. right side black pipe to drive "Г" shape wooden bar changed - this will never work - too much friction metal to metal, too much area coming together:)
11. ball bearing central ring in original small as 10-11mm here we have much more bigger.:)
12 side wooden supports are completely different from original one.:)
13. brass rotor balancer on ply not at the right side in pics, you glue ply not from correct side:)
14. magnet below - not double one but I think from very specific print on brasspart supports that magnet - you took it from real one
it was under the sliding and has print on it,you did not made second same part:)
15. all gaps between magnets in original motor less than in pics:)
16. the line where 4 magnets in line - line not the same like in original (important V-gate thing compomized in pics creator of toy was in harry:)))))))
NICE TOY IT WAS:)

Come to my YT and see if someone risking to say 1 bad word about your sold motor. Am I God or DEVIL? They are scare of me?:)))))))))))))
No Sir! I just explane all in Russian and everybody educated or not stops thinging that this is perpetual motion motor.
If some one will say there that is perpetual motion motor then I will smash that person in 1 sec with all my power of knowledge and connections to
science! I have only positive reaction there Sir, Why you sold it out nobody knows - only you! If you get 1 good JEEP car price for it then I am glad and in the same time very sad of you because your new JEEP or new house will vanish in time under the SUN!But you lost your name on the stones of Earth!

<I have already explained you that the V-gate can't just work alone,>
WOW! You sold not working V-gate rotor ?:)
OK Rob as you said, as you said Sir, I believe that you can find there damm idiots, grate form you:) You earn free and easy money!
I am very proud that I know you!

Regards
Rob
Классно выкрутился молодец! Вы не шахматист!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 13, 2011, 01:22:32 AM
Its merely a question.
He, Robert Calloway, told me he sold the design but did not elaborate.
So I asked, in parentheses, to this general audience; "To an Italian???"

It's all very mysterious and roobert33's accusation that people at PESN are lying; still remains.

One thing I think I know; the original video came from youtube user "roobert33"
And a roobert33 DOES have a youtube account that was created in late 2008.
And the lab in his OTHER videos appears to be the same lab as the recent photos he attached here.
And the hands, in both the original video and his recent pictures, are VERY similar.

So, in my opinion, roobert33 has established a certain level of credibility to his claim that he was involved.
As far as whether, or not, such a device is possible? Or the effects in the original video can be duplicated by ANY means?
This remains yet to be seen.

I would love for roobert33 to make another attempt to just duplicate the pose of his hand as it is in the original video (like it is in your cad file).
I am not sure; but I think I see a similar "light area" scar behind the thumb.

roobert33 does not need to go through all that trouble to prove the device can be faked.
I did not, and do not, dispute the device can be faked. In fact I am not trying to take any position at all.

But a photo of his hand that can be MATCHED with the original video hand would certainly add even more credibility to his claim that PESN information is false.
And that he was involved with the original invention and video.

Is perpetual motion possible?
Doesn't this depend on your definition of perpetual motion?
If you claim the orbits of electrons in atoms, and the orbits of bodies in a solar system are slowly decaying, over billions of years, then NO, perpetual motion is NOT possible.

If you claim perpetual motion only has to last AS LONG as the orbits of electrons in atoms, then YES, perpetual motion IS possible and it is being DEMONSTRATED, every day, in the form of electron orbits in atoms.

Just REMEMBER, what does electricity DO inside a conventional motor?
It merely creates a MAGNETIC FIELD of FORCE.

Do we need a flow of electricity to have a very STRONG magnetic field of force?
Does the existence of a neodymium permanent magnet answer this question?

Have you seen a demonstration of Ed Leedskalnin's magnetic holder?

This is a simple device that continues to maintain a magnetic FORCE after electricity is REMOVED.
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwws-LlBGNU

If a strong magnetic force remains, after it's source of ENERGY is removed, what do you call IT?

If a conventional electric motor merely uses switched, or alternating, magnetic forces to operate, is it possible to build a motor that uses some OTHER means, besides electricity, to switch, alternate, or GATE the magnetic forces?

As far as this replication is concerned; I still need to do more fabrication.
I have not done anything since throwing together, in one afternoon, what you see in my pictures.

Next in line, for me, is to map out the V-Gate on a paper stencil that can be transferred to my aluminum rotor.
I also plan to fabricate a brass rocker and still looking for additional materials to accomplish this.

That is all for now.

}:>


Dear Scorch I did not understand this #3 He sold the design. (to an Italian???)
can you explane it?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: wings on November 13, 2011, 10:17:18 AM
 :'
(
Maybe I have not explained me well ...
In the previous comment I wrote that I made a copy of the first V-gate in two days.
It understands very well that this my new V-gate is not the original one, even a child would understand.
The first V-gate I have sold it to a person long ago, as a way of mechanical beauty and I couldn't do the photos to it, in addition I can't  make a new video with the breath of the air that turns the toy, I would be certainly bombarded by criticism of YT users.

However, I have already explained you that the V-gate can't just work alone, if so, it would be the perpetual motion, you realize it or not? I would do the most sensational discovery of the millennium ...
And you think, I would be now here at the Forum to waste time arguing about it?


Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 13, 2011, 11:03:48 AM

Next in line, for me, is to map out the V-Gate on a paper stencil that can be transferred to my aluminum rotor.
I also plan to fabricate a brass rocker and still looking for additional materials to accomplish this.

That is all for now.

}:>
Dear Scorch, thanks for your comments and video, if someone need to read about this video go  and read this - http://www.scribd.com/doc/242432/Ed-Leedskalnin-Magnetic-Current-Illustrated

I am not already focused on sold things like this motor on video etc "basta".We are loosing time with all these long explanations because perpetual motion is NOT possible. If people still can "see" it then they have to study phisics better to find out  the real things why they can see  such  behaviour from physical things. If study phisics not brings result - it means we still need to develop fundamental phisics to understand things better and deeper. Actually, Man has to be not smart and/or intelegant to claim such patents from officials if "it" is not supported by fundamental phisics.

Simple and short advise to anyone here to protect their new inventions - find relevant fundamental phisics words to explane your inventions and protect yourself and your inventions.Dont try to elevate the Earth mass to your shoulder - just do your best for people with new inventions, start trust to your eyes and knowledge  to trust people. Start allocate money to put your inventions into mass production if you trust to things that you can see as working cakes of sweet:) Avoid all crazy words about free energy and God will open mind of mass people to accept your inventions.Up to now nobody in the world knows exactly why planes are flying.
There are billions of pages and innovations about aerodynamics, but when you want to construct new airplane by its structure all fundamental guys asking 1 thing - construct, fly, if everything will go OK then we will support you and find relevant words for your invention with million pages of base even if it is argue with aerodynamics rules:)... good prove of my words is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONIsc1zRWpA

See also NASA new concept below - it is now already flying in my apartment in small scale:) Do I need to know exactly why it is flying? No! Dose anybody need to write million pages to explane it's flight? It is fling good and I dont care else:) I am just creating staff and giving to relevant guys as the gift!If they will to share money from new OK, if not, I will live further with my new inventions... I will change guys who took my new and did not pay to me - no problem, I am able to earn money from air because I have friends, good friends:) Patents are sucks...sick and tired of that papers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPgAdHPWoU


Nothing is free in our space and galatics guys because there was 1-st big boom that starts all in our universe and universe itself and it is the only overunity energy! If some one not agree with unic universe and God overunity - go and kill yourself to find God "secrects" and make your own univers:) I dont care personally.... I am not able and dont have such wish to argue with God if you are Gods here!You are too big as sky to see you personally and talk to argue:)

Stop using empty words - words are weapon to make our life better!
------------
I want to be helpfull to you in fabrication works and deduct all those many words here to get our own result:)
So dear Scorch, to help you go forward faster with drawings mapping - here below I upload video of one Russian RC champ - very easy technology, that show how we are putting laser toner lines from paper to metal or wood to make RC plane models, I guess there is no matter where it can be used It is really good mapping technology of scaled drawings even to metal for further fabrications in  1:1 scale. You need aceton and mirror laser prints on paper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwxKE63QkMI

Thank you for your communication with me.I really appreciate it!!!

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 13, 2011, 11:08:17 AM
:'
(
Dear wings, please, explane your emotions Sir?:)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 13, 2011, 06:47:44 PM
I love this channel guys and want to share it with you to show how nice our Earth from space by on line video cam from MIR space station and why we have to keep her happy with our works and life style.
Also see comments in my YT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDZMWeSGfV8
link to Johnson Space Center on line space video cam. copy and paste to your browser.
mms://a1709.l1856953708.c18569.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/1709/18569/v0001/reflecto­r:53708

Truly,
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 13, 2011, 07:15:42 PM
I do have hard copies of Ed's books on my shelf as well as the Passels Information Network book, about Ed, titled: "How to read his writings".

I actually have no concern; when the current state of physics says: "Perpetual motion is impossible".
Just as I have no concern; when the current state of physics (of the PAST) says: "Heavier than air, powered, flight is impossible".

None of these things are relevant if I can still tap into the forces of the universe and build a device that gives the APPEARANCE of 'perpetual motion'.

Just because I, and physics, can't explain how Ed built, and lighted, his castle doesn't mean he didn't do it.

You are correct in stating there is no reason to continue such a philosophical discussion. If the orbits of planets, for billions of years, is not considered to be 'perpetual motion' then whats the point of discussing any farther?

On the other hand, Ed could still tap into whatever energy keeps the planets in orbit, and use this energy to levitate, and perfectly balance, 30 ton blocks of coral and also keep his generator spinning.

So WHAT is IT?

If we can't call it "perpetual motion" then lets just called it: "Unexplained Continuous Motion". (Explanation to come at a later date when science finally catches up to what Ed (and the Wright brothers) accomplished. :)

Thank you for your advice on transferring an image but I am planning a simpler approach.

This device gives me the impression that it really should be a demonstration TOY that anybody can build. Therefore my goal is to try and keep it as simple as possible. This way, if it actually works, anybody else can throw one together and pass on the knowledge.

My plan to "map it out" is to use nothing more than a piece of paper, the width and length of the rotor surface, a ruler, and a little basic math.

Simply based on how many ferrites will fit into a V-Shape pattern with spacing somewhere around half the diameter of the ferrites. It simply needs to look good, and symmetrical, and hopefully replicate whats in the original video.

Once this is drawn on paper, using my pen, I will make a hole for the position of each ferrite. Then simply lay the paper on the rotor and use my pen to place a marks on the rotor. Then I can attach ferrites.

This is all accomplished by 'dead reckoning' with no complicated math or fancy engineering procedures.
A picture, in my mind, I then build with my hands.

Just like your video of the unusual aircraft that doesn't look like it will fly.
All I need to know is that I can create an airfoil shape by simply attaching a board, and all the wiring, on top of a totally flat wing. Doesn't matter if its aerodynamically efficient as long as I create a low pressure differential on top of the wing and build a relatively balanced aircraft. And even balance is not super critical because control surfaces can compensate to a certain extent. Therefore pigs, and lawnmowers, can fly! :)

And, in the case of this device, all I need to know is that a V-Shape concentrates magnetic force. Which has been in front of my face all my life. Try picking up some nails with a magnet. Ever wonder WHY they always "stick" the strongest at the POINTS of the nails instead of the heads where there is actually more, ferrous, mass?

I see you have added a copy of that video, I showed you the other day, to your youtube page. Glad to see it because, sometimes, these videos disappear and I probably should do the same at my own youtube page.

This video is just another great demonstration of the V-Gate effect.
Just like the V-Gate tracks and cars that many have replicated, it simply uses a series V shaped, ferrous, pieces configured as four, separate, and staggered tracks resulting in a continuous motion as four magnets continuously attract each track of V-gates as they come around.
And it was built using common stuff including a 4" PVC pipe union, CD, CD drive bearing, ceramic magnets and what I assume is just soft iron, V-Shaped, pieces that appear to be some type of horse shoe nails or rail spikes.

See Unexplained Continuous Motion (UCM) video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBIx_bq6f3g

}:>


------------
I want to be helpfull to you in fabrication works and deduct all those many words here to get our own result:)
So dear Scorch, to help you go forward faster with drawings mapping - here below I upload video of one Russian RC champ - very easy technology, that show how we are putting laser toner lines from paper to metal or wood to make RC plane models, I guess there is no matter where it can be used It is really good mapping technology of scaled drawings even to metal for further fabrications in  1:1 scale. You need aceton and mirror laser prints on paper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwxKE63QkMI

Thank you for your communication with me.I really appreciate it!!!

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 13, 2011, 08:14:40 PM
I do have hard copies of Ed's books on my shelf as well as the Passels Information Network book, about Ed, titled: "How to read his writings".

I actually have no concern; when the current state of physics says: "Perpetual motion is impossible".
Just as I have no concern; when the current state of physics (of the PAST) says: "Heavier than air, powered, flight is impossible".

None of these things are relevant if I can still tap into the forces of the universe and build a device that gives the APPEARANCE of 'perpetual motion'.

Just because I, and physics, can't explain how Ed built, and lighted, his castle doesn't mean he didn't do it.

You are correct in stating there is no reason to continue such a philosophical discussion. If the orbits of planets, for billions of years, is not considered to be 'perpetual motion' then whats the point of discussing any farther?

On the other hand, Ed could still tap into whatever energy keeps the planets in orbit, and use this energy to levitate, and perfectly balance, 30 ton blocks of coral and also keep his generator spinning.

So WHAT is IT?

If we can't call it "perpetual motion" then lets just called it: "Unexplained Continuous Motion". (Explanation to come at a later date when science finally catches up to what Ed (and the Wright brothers) accomplished. :)

Thank you for your advice on transferring an image but I am planning a simpler approach.

This device gives me the impression that it really should be a demonstration TOY that anybody can build. Therefore my goal is to try and keep it as simple as possible. This way, if it actually works, anybody else can throw one together and pass on the knowledge.

My plan to "map it out" is to use nothing more than a piece of paper, the width and length of the rotor surface, a ruler, and a little basic math.

Simply based on how many ferrites will fit into a V-Shape pattern with spacing somewhere around half the diameter of the ferrites. It simply needs to look good, and symmetrical, and hopefully replicate whats in the original video.

Once this is drawn on paper, using my pen, I will make a hole for the position of each ferrite. Then simply lay the paper on the rotor and use my pen to place a marks on the rotor. Then I can attach ferrites.

This is all accomplished by 'dead reckoning' with no complicated math or fancy engineering procedures.
A picture, in my mind, I then build with my hands.

Just like your video of the unusual aircraft that doesn't look like it will fly.
All I need to know is that I can create an airfoil shape by simply attaching a board, and all the wiring, on top of a totally flat wing. Doesn't matter if its aerodynamically efficient as long as I create a low pressure differential on top of the wing and build a relatively balanced aircraft. And even balance is not super critical because control surfaces can compensate to a certain extent. Therefore pigs, and lawnmowers, can fly! :)

And, in the case of this device, all I need to know is that a V-Shape concentrates magnetic force. Which has been in front of my face all my life. Try picking up some nails with a magnet. Ever wonder WHY they always "stick" the strongest at the POINTS of the nails instead of the heads where there is actually more, ferrous, mass?

I see you have added a copy of that video, I showed you the other day, to your youtube page. Glad to see it because, sometimes, these videos disappear and I probably should do the same at my own youtube page.

This video is just another great demonstration of the V-Gate effect.
Just like the V-Gate tracks and cars that many have replicated, it simply uses a series V shaped, ferrous, pieces configured as four, separate, and staggered tracks resulting in a continuous motion as four magnets continuously attract each track of V-gates as they come around.
And it was built using common stuff including a 4" PVC pipe union, CD, CD drive bearing, ceramic magnets and what I assume is just soft iron, V-Shaped, pieces that appear to be some type of horse shoe nails or rail spikes.

See Unexplained Continuous Motion (UCM) video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBIx_bq6f3g

}:>

Your idea explained...

"And, in the case of this device, all I need to know is that a V-Shape concentrates magnetic force. Which has been in front of my face all my life. Try picking up some nails with a magnet. Ever wonder WHY they always "stick" the strongest at the POINTS of the nails instead of the heads where there is actually more, ferrous, mass?"   

Less weight at that tip of the nail???  Magnetic force easier to move that end of the nail. 

More to come young weed hopper.

Bill

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 13, 2011, 09:29:08 PM
Your idea explained...

Less weight at that tip of the nail???  Magnetic force easier to move that end of the nail. 

More to come young weed hopper.

Bill
Hi dear Bill, my English is not so developed to understand the slang.Will you bee so kind to "translate" from English to English
"More to come young weed hopper." is this mean "young spamer"?
Well do you really think and know that nails dose not premagnetized before acting with other magnets by the natural Earth gravity?
Did you measure them before act with other magnets?may I see an video example?

I had mesured and all my 1000 nails was magntized... I want to know by who and how and why if it is not Earth gravity?
Sorry, I dont think that there is only nails end light weight are playing here such "games" with magnets...
guess light mass of domen at th end need less magnet power to be magntized and from that sharp end iron start to be natural magnet under the force of Earth gravity. Nature of planet will never give you chance to avoid in iron domen stright vectors...

I will tell you more, even iron powder (0.1mm small parts) are premagnetized before acting with magnets to show us magnet force lines in future...

sorry for my english

thanks in advanced for help to understand you better.

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 13, 2011, 10:11:29 PM
Therefore pigs, and lawnmowers, can fly! :)
}:>
I really like your sense of humor:) When I will finish all these projects I will try to put on one pig on the fly :)))))))))))))
be sure it will fly from my hands, just I need to be far from that place as far as "pig"  landing will not sussesfull defiantly, but it will be funny to see such flight:)

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 13, 2011, 10:12:58 PM
Ok; finally got around to completing some more fabrication. Yay! :)

Turns out its actually easier to map the V than I originally thought.
This because the extra long ferrites are not going to need any spacing along the length so all I needed to make a pattern for is JUST a plain, paper, V. (See images)

And, even if I did need some spacing, I would still just use a plain paper V then use a spacing tool / jig for final installation of the ferrites.

I am a little concerned about the length of these off the shelf ferrites which are 10mm Diameter X 20mm Long. Because of this length, and the radius of the rotor, the ferrites are pretty well pointed away from each other along the length of the V.

Wish I could find something shorter off the shelf.
Might try fabricating a rotor with some smaller diameter ferrites that are shorter.

Anyway; here are the progress photos.

}:>



Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 13, 2011, 10:13:47 PM
Hi dear Bill, my English is not so developed to understand the slang.Will you bee so kind to "translate" from English to English
"More to come young weed hopper." is this mean "young spamer"?
Well do you really think and know that nails dose not premagnetized before acting with other magnets by the natural Earth gravity?
Did you measure them before act with other magnets?may I see an video example?

I had mesured and all my 1000 nails was magntized... I want to know by who and how and why if it is not Earth gravity?
Sorry, I dont think that there is only nails end light weight are playing here such "games" with magnets...
guess light mass of domen at th end need less magnet power to be magntized and from that sharp end iron start to be natural magnet under the force of Earth gravity. Nature of planet will never give you chance to avoid in iron domen stright vectors...

I will tell you more, even iron powder (0.1mm small parts) are premagnetized before acting with magnets to show us magnet force lines in future...

sorry for my english

thanks in advanced for help to understand you better.

Truly
Rob

"young weed hopper"    is someone who is learning. 

I suggest that you identify the problems with the design then solve those problems. 
First what are the problems?   Try to write them out. 

Bill

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 13, 2011, 10:17:03 PM
Good you chose the pig because the lawnmower has already been done!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26PpA1kFIWw

}:>

I really like your sense of humor:) When I will finish all these projects I will try to put on one pig on the fly :)))))))))))))
be sure it will fly from my hands, just I need to be far from that place as far as "pig"  landing will not sussesfull defiantly, but it will be funny to see such flight:)

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 13, 2011, 11:39:59 PM
You are correct in stating there is no reason to continue such a philosophical discussion. If the orbits of planets, for billions of years, is not considered to be 'perpetual motion' then whats the point of discussing any farther?
}:>
We need to keep moving further and accelerate our fabrications of this motor to 3-4 "sound speed" to block any decoys to put on the air its formal paper work for this motor!!!

Scorch?Thanks for understanding and support!
P.S.
in few days I will present my flat working V-gate result and then it will be in rotor ring with etc parts. Video will be presented here and all of the relevant russian sites. My cad drawings of this motor scale already in the air and scale has not been deny.We need to compromise by our fabrications next 50% part of motor to block patent for ever!
Nobody can stop us!
No problem, only solution!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 13, 2011, 11:42:13 PM
Well, so much for "keeping it lightweight" as Mr. Calloway recommended.

This rotor now weighs about 1.3 pounds.

I really would like to find some shorter ferrites or have them made.
10mm X 10mm ferrites would be a lot closer to what is in the original video.
I also think my rotor is a little bit narrower than the one in the original video.

Mine is 2" wide X 4" diameter.

The one in the video might be closer to 2.5" wide X 4.5" diameter.

But I don't know if any of that really matters.
If this thing works; it should be very scale-able.

Make a larger rotor, use a larger stator, etc.

In fact I may have to re-fabricate the upright supports to accommodate a rotor that is now about 5.5" in diameter.

This is what is called "a work in progress".
If I can make this thing function, the final build will use as much acrylic as possible including rotor, uprights, and stator shafts.


}:>
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 14, 2011, 12:04:17 AM

This is what is called "a work in progress".
}:>
Good job!!! I recomend to balance it as nice as propeller and then shift the balance to make 4 line ferrites move forward automatically
I like it, really!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 14, 2011, 01:21:14 AM
I see you have added a copy of that video, I showed you the other day, to your youtube page. Glad to see it because, sometimes, these videos disappear and I probably should do the same at my own youtube page.

}:>
I can see 2 guys that watch that video from state of Louisiana:)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 15, 2011, 01:45:53 AM
This is what is called "a work in progress".
}:>
Got small , flat v-gate, for me positive result:) Waiting magnets from US. Analysing negatives...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV7WkZ9R7S4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV7WkZ9R7S4)
http://s017.radikal.ru/i412/1111/59/86d0d3d587c6.jpg (http://s017.radikal.ru/i412/1111/59/86d0d3d587c6.jpg)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 16, 2011, 01:52:28 AM
I have got better result, same setup, just tun horizontal magnet to gate, now N pole of gate in front of S pole of horizontal magnet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM)

And a bit humor:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKUdvs-atJI
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 16, 2011, 05:58:23 PM

Thank you Roobert33, again, for the better images.


I do have some questions-


What is the diameter and width of your rotor?
>
What is the diameter and length of the pole pieces attached to the rotor?
>
How many pole pieces fit on your rotor?
>


And just an observation:


It does appear you are actually using the original rocker that was in the original video.
This is a very custom part including specific shape, solder patterns, color and glue points under the "magnet"
If we review the original video, we can see these things as compared to the new image which appears to be EXACTLY the same part only its little more tarnished over time.
(See attached)


And this increases the credibility of Roobert33's claims even more.
And the claim of PESN, that Robert Calloway is Roobert33, is highly questionable.


}:>

.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 16, 2011, 07:51:08 PM

And this increases the credibility of Roobert33's claims even more.
And the claim of PESN, that Robert Calloway is Roobert33, is highly questionable.


}:>

Dear Scorch thank you. I had catch it and then Roobert33 said he has sold motor:) And even better he told that V-gate can not work alone and it means by simple logic - he sold motor that is not working:)
This man dont want to open set up and will never do that. As I said, he is going to go to grave with this motor info..shame on him.. no more comments!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 16, 2011, 10:27:43 PM
@ Scorch
I try to help you as much as possible in the answers ...
The circle of wood inside the rotor, the circular base of Plexiglas and the fake magnet below are the same as the first "original V-gate". I've used them again for the video that I sent to this Forum.
In the first "original V-gate" that I sold, I just removed these pieces, as they were not suitable from the point of view of mechanical beauty.  At that time I have rebuilt them more beautiful ...

I give you the measures of the "original V-gate" that you wanted to know :

1) The diameter of the disk was mm. 100, width mm. 62.
2) The aluminum rods were used "total 66", diameter 8 mm x 7 wide.
3) The right pillar of wood height mm.137, 15 x 15mm. Left mm.160, 15 x 15.
4) the central axis mm.128 x 6.

Bye!

@ Arrow
I'm sorry you've misjudged me, you don't know me and you can not get the wrong idea of me only for a few comments that I wrote in the Forum ...
And I also regret that you deleted me from your YT channel.
Bye!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 17, 2011, 12:29:33 AM
@ Arrow
I forgot to respond to one thing:
I must not take any secrets to the grave, because the V-gate is a "FAKE" Put it in the  mind ...
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 17, 2011, 02:58:14 AM

Thanks for the measurements.
Looks like I judged the diameter of the rotor pretty close but, just as I suspected, yours is about .5" wider.

It might have been a fake BUT there is still some real potential with this design you came up with and still worth exploring.

Like I wrote before; if we can build a repeating V track, that carries a car the entire distance, there has to be a way to repeat a single V.

There are obvious challenges.
For example a rotor is an entirely different geometry than a flat track and curved magnets might be the solution.

I can certainly try to make a functional version based your fake device but my knowledge is limited when it starts getting into specific magnetic fields and geometry.
It occurs to me that it might actually be better to build an inverse rotor with ferrites facing inward and magnets also inside.
But this is getting way ahead of the game.  Just want to recreate what you made only with real materials, instead of fake ones, so I can get a "feel" of what needs to be accomplished.

Of course there is still this appearance of misrepresentation at PESN and I now have to rethink whether not Mr. Calloway's suggestion of using ferrites is the right path.
I am already having a lot of difficulty getting much motion from this very narrow V that I built. It's too narrow, the ferrites are too big, and too close together.
Already considering a rebuild of my rotor at this point. And I must now consider an attempt with magnets instead of ferrites as this might help reduce the geometry challenges.

Do not be to hard on yourself for building a fake device as it does ENCOURAGE others, such as myself, to experiment.
Some great inventions have been accomplished in this very manor where a research & development department is shown a video of a "competitor's device" and the challenge is to reverse engineer it; even though the video is fake. . .

By presenting it as being real, this lights a fire under their tails and challenges them to accomplish it because, in their mind, it has already been done!

}:>


@ Scorch
I try to help you as much as possible in the answers ...
The circle of wood inside the rotor, the circular base of Plexiglas and the fake magnet below are the same as the first "original V-gate". I've used them again for the video that I sent to this Forum.
In the first "original V-gate" that I sold, I just removed these pieces, as they were not suitable from the point of view of mechanical beauty.  At that time I have rebuilt them more beautiful ...

I give you the measures of the "original V-gate" that you wanted to know :

1) The diameter of the disk was mm. 100, width mm. 62.
2) The aluminum rods were used "total 66", diameter 8 mm x 7 wide.
3) The right pillar of wood height mm.137, 15 x 15mm. Left mm.160, 15 x 15.
4) the central axis mm.128 x 6.

Bye!

@ Arrow
I'm sorry you've misjudged me, you don't know me and you can not get the wrong idea of me only for a few comments that I wrote in the Forum ...
And I also regret that you deleted me from your YT channel.
Bye!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 17, 2011, 02:13:37 PM
Hi Scorch,
I'm not totally opposed to achieving a true "V-gate".
In the course of several years I have made several attempts with different systems as possible to try to make it run, but everything so far has been in vain ...
The real question is not whether to do calculations on the weight of the rotor or to put more or less large magnets on it, the failed mechanism is subject to the magnets which are opposed to when the wheel wants to bypass the high point. Even if we make a "perfect balance", it will be inevitably blocked by the opposing magnets ...

However, when you want some advice from me, I answer you with pleasure  :)
There is a very important thing, however, I do not speak English, my wife makes me the translation and to avoid discomfort to give her every time, I'll write you in Italian and then you translate my message in English.
Bye!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 17, 2011, 03:11:20 PM

@ Arrow
I'm sorry you've misjudged me, you don't know me and you can not get the wrong idea of me only for a few comments that I wrote in the Forum ...
And I also regret that you deleted me from your YT channel.
Bye!

Hi Rob, ok I regret that you are telling here that your rotor not working one as far as your shown fake second rotor did not prove that first one fake. You just show not right rotor that you had in video. BUT! I still can understand your situation and dont want to ask you second time to show right rotor video.The problem is - you had use in your second fake rotor parts from first working rotor.Nobody and nothing can prove me the opposite, because when I had use your video V-gate angle from drawing that I have got from video revers engineering - its works! V-gate can work alone with rotor with magnets and all that we have seen in first video and dont try to make mess here with fake info. Stop argue with me until you did not show real rotor video - remember? you said me NO! I have same as you south blood type in my vessels Sir , do dont make me more crazy than you have done already!
OK then feel comfortable to get such actions from me as the reaction to your "NO Sir". Earth is round object, hope to see you soon!
Sorry...that is the life! I am horrably getting crazy when somebody lies long-term to me, even can panish very tuff for that!
If you dont have proves as second video of motor and sold it - then you are kindly asked to stop writing any info here about V-gate!
You sold even not a gold Sir - you sold to punks the hope of the people in the world!Very "clever" move from you!
Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 17, 2011, 03:18:59 PM


I am already having a lot of difficulty getting much motion from this very narrow V that I built. It's too narrow, the ferrites are too big, and too close together.
Already considering a rebuild of my rotor at this point. And I must now consider an attempt with magnets instead of ferrites as this might help reduce the geometry challenges.

}:>

Dear Scorch I made already 3 flat V-gate and can tell you - the V-gate structure very sensitive to its components, it  react negative to its "static trust" if you are making it narrow than 5 degree from central mid axi(looking from the front to rotor). All sises here are connected to each other. I am trying to calculate already dependence of gate angle to its magnet size and to top magnet. All connected together, believe me!
sorry for my english.. this is first time in my life that I pity - I am not born in US to speak with you in pure english and help you!
I can tell you the angle must be  bit more than even 5 degree... working on it, soon you will have answer from me.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 17, 2011, 06:29:27 PM

Upon examination of the new image of the rocker (See: RoobertsRocker.png) I see the following:
#1 A beveled piece, presumably a block of wood, that is painted silver and some of that paint is noticeable, in two places, below the block, on the glue, between the block and the brass.
#2 A line that goes down the middle of the block of the wood giving the impression of two pieces.
#3 A very custom brass assembly with specific shapes and solder patterns.


While true the original video is very low resolution; I can still see all of these features. (See: Video or VideoRocker.png)
The most obvious being the beveled edges, color, and identical glue points that have the exact same paint pattern.
This leads me to believe that the original video did not have a magnetic rocker.


I also believe the following:
-Machined aluminum rods will have the exact appearance as found in the original video.
-Custom made, nickel plated, ferrites will NOT have the same appearance as the rods in the original video because they are cut with a saw and not machined on a rotary lathe.
-The rotor in the original video is wider than I originally thought and the main suppliers of magnets, at least in the US, do not stock a 1/4"X1/4"X2.5" or 3" neodymium magnet.
-Roobert33 produced the original video, submitted it to youtube, and still has the same hand.
-The original sound track was removed.
-The original video is very low resolution. (Presumably to mask features such as paint and wood grain on 'magnets')


Therefor, based on all the above, plus testimony from Roobert33 himself, in answer to the age old question of THIS forum, as it relates to the youtube user "overunitydotcom" video  titled: "selfrunning working permanent magnet motor from Roobert33 is it a Fake?"


I am now of the position the original video, IS, in FACT, Fake.


I am also of the position this is all completely irrelevant to the goal and current experiments. :)
And I am of the position that PESN should review it's articles regarding who did what with regards to this device.


I am also of the position that the double carriage returns, this new form keeps adding to my reply, are very annoying!
(using google chrome)
And that its time to stop writing and start experimenting and buying more parts!


And its entirely possible you may see nothing more from me, until such time I might actually have something to show you, with regards to this particular device.


}:>

Hi Rob, ok I regret that you are telling here that your rotor not working one as far as your shown fake second rotor did not prove that first one fake. . .
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: roobert33 on November 17, 2011, 07:41:45 PM
Hi Scorch, I wanted to let you know that I will write no more in this forum. If sometimes you want to know some technical information, you can do it through my YT email address.
Bye!

http://www.youtube.com/user/Roobert33?feature=mhee
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 17, 2011, 11:33:15 PM

I am now of the position the original video, IS, in FACT, Fake.

}:>

Dear Scorch, if you still interesting to this video v-gate magnet pole structure see attached pic. This is what working at my flat gate normally and even if you count video is fake - it is working there in right way. If bar magnet will be installed in different way then it will jump up when rotor turning.See to be sure in my words here the bar position at start up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXc_OObIZ8A
Here is the N to N, in our video S to N and it is sticky because gate magnets pull bar magnet.

I still in position that video not fake, sorry.Some one made big mistake to show motor on line and want to close my sharp eyes from evidence of real working V-gate rotor:) funny story here for me, sorry again everybody:) I dont care who made and who lost it, but he have done good work!
BRAVO MAN!!!!YOU HAVE brilliant brain!!! because of that , dont warry, be happy, you will create an other good staff for your family, but remember
- heavy train is coming and we are coming and nobody could stop:))) Do your best in time!

I made frame by frame original video fragment to show you important things in magnet structure by cursor, etc
Unfortunately it is not possible do not know v-gate principles/behavior and make such clever "fake" video:) This is what telling me my own observations from physical reconstruction of flat v-gate - I have here absolutely 1:1 behavior - I swear to SUN in my eyes! see it again here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM
frame by frame is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDPhiAChfE8
pole of magnets is here
http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/f1/69a3a8ca655b.jpg
I am not sure for 100% about poles of bottom magnet one, I will clarify that soon.

No problem people - only solution! - you will get soon motor structure drawings here to construct it by your own! Promise!!!
Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 18, 2011, 05:10:20 PM

I am still interested and I'm waiting for some cheapo ceramic magnets I am going to use to build a new rotor.
I don't actually see an attached picture here.


Doesn't matter if its fake because, mechanically speaking, its still a good design providing two points of mechanical switching.
Roobert33 is the original provider of the video and obviously has some of the original parts in his possession so the statements at PESN that Calloway is Roobert33 is highly questionable.


I never saw the text, if any, that might have been included with Roobert33's original youtube submission but, he has never given me any reason to believe he is lying.


Please explain:
What type of magnet has the color of polished aluminum and the circular, Fresnel, cut patterns of a rotary lathe resulting in these light reflections in the shape of an hour glass?
I have round neodymium magnets and they are NOT the same appearance as the 'magnets' in the original video.


I would also like to know where I can find a 1/4"T X 1/4"H X 2.5" or 3"L neodymium magnet that would match the length of the bar 'magnet' in the original video?
The magnet in the original video is clearly square, on the end, so its NOT a cylinder or rod magnet.


BTW: Thank you for the additional analysis.
As far as pole orientation is concerned; I still picture, in my mind, the device should function in a purely attractive configuration such as all north on rotor with a south facing bar magnet which will have the strongest attraction towards the point of the V and not towards the widest part as your track is currently set up.  But this is just my own mind. There may actually be more than one configuration that might work.


}:>

Dear Scorch, if you still interesting to this video v-gate magnet pole structure see attached pic. This is what working at my flat gate normally and even if you count video is fake - it is working there in right way. If bar magnet will be installed in different way then it will jump up when rotor turning.See to be sure in my words here the bar position at start up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXc_OObIZ8A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXc_OObIZ8A)
Here is the N to N, in our video S to N and it is sticky because gate magnets pull bar magnet.

I still in position that video not fake, sorry.Some one made big mistake to show motor on line and want to close my sharp eyes from evidence of real working V-gate rotor:) funny story here for me, sorry again everybody:) I dont care who made and who lost it, but he have done good work!
BRAVO MAN!!!!YOU HAVE brilliant brain!!! because of that , dont warry, be happy, you will create an other good staff for your family, but remember
- heavy train is coming and we are coming and nobody could stop:))) Do your best in time!

I made frame by frame original video fragment to show you important things in magnet structure by cursor, etc
Unfortunately it is not possible do not know v-gate principles/behavior and make such clever "fake" video:) This is what telling me my own observations from physical reconstruction of flat v-gate - I have here absolutely 1:1 behavior - I swear to SUN in my eyes! see it again here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM)
frame by frame is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDPhiAChfE8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDPhiAChfE8)
pole of magnets is here
http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/f1/69a3a8ca655b.jpg (http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/f1/69a3a8ca655b.jpg)
I am not sure for 100% about poles of bottom magnet one, I will clarify that soon.

No problem people - only solution! - you will get soon motor structure drawings here to construct it by your own! Promise!!!
Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 18, 2011, 08:47:02 PM
I am still interested and I'm waiting for some cheapo ceramic magnets I am going to use to build a new rotor.
I don't actually see an attached picture here.

Please explain:
What type of magnet has the color of polished aluminum and the circular, Fresnel, cut patterns of a rotary lathe resulting in these light reflections in the shape of an hour glass?
I have round neodymium magnets and they are NOT the same appearance as the 'magnets' in the original video.


I would also like to know where I can find a 1/4"T X 1/4"H X 2.5" or 3"L neodymium magnet that would match the length of the bar 'magnet' in the original video?
The magnet in the original video is clearly square, on the end, so its NOT a cylinder or rod magnet.


BTW: Thank you for the additional analysis.
As far as pole orientation is concerned; I still picture, in my mind, the device should function in a purely attractive configuration such as all north on rotor with a south facing bar magnet which will have the strongest attraction towards the point of the V and not towards the widest part as your track is currently set up.  But this is just my own mind. There may actually be more than one configuration that might work.


}:>

Hi dear Scorch

to:<I don't actually see an attached picture here>.
I am not able to upload pics here that is why using dif. server to public fotos there and share only its links here, sorry. I had put the link with pic where you can see poles of magnets at rotor. See link above.

to:<I would also like to know where I can find...>
here the link to online shop in US for magnets http://apexmagnets.com/?gclid=CP2Ohs_f96sCFcyHDgod2whdYw (http://apexmagnets.com/?gclid=CP2Ohs_f96sCFcyHDgod2whdYw)
I dont think that exact 1/4"T X 1/4"H X 2.5" or 3"L size are very important.That is why I am working on it to find the dependence of magnet size on rotor to magnet size and strength of it in bars formula.

to:<What type of magnet has the color of polished aluminum and the circular, Fresnel, cut patterns of a rotary lathe resulting in these light reflections in the shape of an hour glass?>
Can you polish magnets as stainless still look? I can do that with turning wood stick  and special metal polish, so, I thing inventor do his task very much taff to cover the real situation with magnets even on primary video.

to: <the device should function in a purely attractive configuration such as all north on rotor with a south facing bar magnet which will have the strongest attraction towards the point of the V>
absolutely right vision!

to:<There may actually be more than one configuration that might work.>
all configs are based on all parts dimensions - that is why I want to workout formula for calculation of different V shapes with dif. magnets size.
Here is below my working small baby V-gate pic with all sizes on it in DXF drawing. This is working, has good attraction, so I am able to share the true to people and to you my friend! This is my base and I am working on it to get math formula.If I will find good and true dependence then formula will be programmed to PHP language to publish it in the internet as "Magnet  V-gate Motor Shape Calculator" You will need to insert 1 size - rotor magnet size and it will calculate automatically all other staff for you. Probably it will be able even to provide simple drawing to snapshot it from screen. When I am telling "heavy train is coming" I guess nobody can understand what I mean- on line free motor calculator is "heavy train" Sir:) Armenian fully armed 7 programmers and maths are here people. V-gate solution will be open for everyone!

Programm and maths for v-gate will look like this staff http://fwcg.3dzone.dk/
If we can fly on wings http://s017.radikal.ru/i438/1111/67/656711c2e7d5.jpg then why are not able to create such page to "fly" with V-gate"?:)))))

Photo:
http://s017.radikal.ru/i423/1111/79/6bef256db8ba.jpg
drawing in scale 1:1:
http://depositfiles.com/files/s0pddutca
drawing in scale 1:1 PDF version
http://depositfiles.com/files/qr8tq9riy
Proposed drawing scale control picture
http://s59.radikal.ru/i164/1111/89/97fadef880f2.jpg
my video where I am testing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM

And Finlay: I am not interested to any names who made this invention as far as the man who made it not intersted to supply us right info and/or any info in did.
We are here alone to workout our gates and that is reality. It is absolutely no matter who is that man for me and I am not going to spent my expensive life time to find him in the world:)

dear Scorch - please translate for me from engllish to english amarican expression "weed hopper" I want to know its reall meanning, please!

Truly
Rob
P.S.
We are very happy to see that many US states  people are interesting to this topic!
Guys we will never set you up!
If we said something - we are doing it, if we love somebody/something- in did we love, if we hate - in did we hate!
Thats the Armenians in its nature!
YTmap - for our v-gate video
Thanks for watching and trust to Armenian 7 crazy guys!
http://s009.radikal.ru/i307/1111/f1/6f254e5c265a.jpg

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 19, 2011, 01:43:38 AM

I have not heard the term "weed hopper" in at least two decades.
In my world; it referred to an ultralight aircraft.
Such as pictured here:
http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg (http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg)


And, if I ever buy one, it will have full aerobatic capabilities.


}:>




dear Scorch - please translate for me from engllish to english amarican expression "weed hopper" I want to know its reall meanning, please!

Truly
Rob

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on November 19, 2011, 02:14:51 AM
I have not heard the term "weed hopper" in at least two decades.
In my world; it referred to an ultralight aircraft.
Such as pictured here:
http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg (http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg)


And, if I ever buy one, it will have full aerobatic capabilities.


}:>
Sorry for the confusion about "weed hopper".
It was just one of my own sayings that was derived from zen and martial arts saying "grass hopper" which means someone who is learning.    To move the stator,  one needs to move it as in zen,  with flow, little force, redirected.
Bill
 
 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 19, 2011, 03:03:40 AM
I have not heard the term "weed hopper" in at least two decades.
In my world; it referred to an ultralight aircraft.
Such as pictured here:
http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg (http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg)


And, if I ever buy one, it will have full aerobatic capabilities.


}:>

LOVE IT VERY MUCH!thanks:) I CAN EVEN IMAGINE HOW WIND BLOWING  EARS IN THAT PLANE IN ! GRATE ONE for weed hopper:)

If you need  aerobatic  model to try then it is Sbach 300 and its structure here to built ( sorry for russian in PDF drawing)
http://depositfiles.com/files/ua14p2l54
hope you will love my research and model drawing because I am doing such things under the classic music by I.S. Bach to be with my Zen:)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 19, 2011, 03:07:13 AM
Sorry for the confusion about "weed hopper".
It was just one of my own sayings that was derived from zen and martial arts saying "grass hopper" which means someone who is learning.    To move the stator,  one needs to move it as in zen,  with flow, little force, redirected.
Bill
Thanks Bill for translation:) I know that already :)
and again I did not understand your english term:( what is ZEN and what flow you mean?spiritual?:( ZEN is that from Buddhism?
are you kidding?:))) nice try:)
may I move it without zen and its spiritual flow?:) rotor is too simple part to use Zen and concenration, most heavy parth to make universal software for such rotors where you need to have not only Zen power but also open wide sky eye at rear side of your head:)
I think I am already done it:) Why I need to use my zen power if I can accumulate it's power comming  from earth by using it for long and happy life dear?:)
I really love this topic in forum:))))))) It is never leaving my face without smile:)

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 19, 2011, 10:15:25 PM
}:>

Dear Scorch , dear people,
here we are with our first betta release of math logic that we are going to implement into PHP programming language.
It is not finished as far as experiments not finished with finding the relevant horizontal V-gate bar magnet size dependence.
All other information in drawing are tested - working for flat V-gate
This is complex maths based on not only old type of calculations but also on to US patent 4456858, 1984year - inventor- James F. Loven.
We had show its ( math) part to simplify our language of communication with people.

http://depositfiles.com/files/m93n93051 (http://depositfiles.com/files/m93n93051) hope you and other people will love it:)
We will be very glad to know if some one will help us here in our English inside of DXF file.
We are very sorry for proper language knowledge mistakes there.

From this sec it is open source project for ever!

We will supply here all our practically tested information with video and photo proves free for any kind of charge for it!
Hope forum administration will find a way to stop any kind of patenting formal works in this space of inventions based on information that will be suppled here by us or anybody else!
We need to know that people are happy, nothing else!

base info about  implemented math but in Russian, please find its English.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%87%D1%87%D0%B8 (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%87%D1%87%D0%B8)

I am using this old Italian math in models when I need to create new planes - it is proved old math type!Planes are perfectly fly!
That is why we found that Roobert33 as Italian man pretty conservative man and dont want to share his info to people!
Ok no problem - we will create this motor from zero info as I said in my old posts, but already based on other Italian, USA & Armenian brilliant mathematics formula and info!

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 20, 2011, 04:32:15 AM
I managed to get a little more accomplished this weekend.


I decided to try a different approach with the rotor by substantially increasing the spacing to 20mm centers (10mm spaces).
This because the previous rotor had the poles so close together, combined with a very stretched out, long, V, confined to the 2" width of the rotor, the stator magnet simply was not attracting the next pole and I couldn't even get a partial rotation from it.


I JUST finished assembly and will give it at least a day for the adhesive to set, before I can mount and balance, so it may be another week before I have anything to report.
If this fails to prove even a partial rotation, then the next steps would be a wider rotor with a better angle V, and longer stator magnet, and/or the introduction of magnets in place of ferrites.
Which I do have on order, in the form of 3/8"Diameter x 1/4"Thick ceramic disks from Edmond Scientific at only 7.95 USD for 100 disks.


Sure wish I could find a 1/4"W x 1/4"T x 3"L neodymium bar magnet!
Otherwise I have to use a 1/2"W x 1/4"T x 3" magnet, which I do have on the shelf, but it weighs twice as much. . .


}:>
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 20, 2011, 10:28:57 AM
I managed to get a little more accomplished this weekend.

Sure wish I could find a 1/4"W x 1/4"T x 3"L neodymium bar magnet!
Otherwise I have to use a 1/2"W x 1/4"T x 3" magnet, which I do have on the shelf, but it weighs twice as much. . .

}:>
Dear Scorch
your V-gate is very interesting direction of development as far it is on pure ferrites.
Are you able to find time at next weekend and make flat gate as we have done?
If you have foam, you cam make holes on it , put the sticks on foam full depth and on the bottom of that submerged sticks you can have your bar magnet on 4 wheels like we have done.
If you will get result here the you can get result in round object such as rotor.
For bar magnet I can recommend this one:
 http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=81 (http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=81)
But I am not sure about right wideness as far I cant imagine the poles around of ferrites. see pic to understand what I mean
http://s58.radikal.ru/i160/1111/65/6784d7eaa2dd.jpg

Our working bar magnet have twice width to 2 magnets space on gate and we can guess that its need improvements, tests to find right dependence of bar magnet width   length and total step distance of 2 magnets. It is like here http://s58.radikal.ru/i159/1111/dc/01b0c0234610.jpg
 
 What is your gate total angle?
 Truly
 Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on November 20, 2011, 07:13:59 PM

I am very tempted to make a flat gate just to learn more about these angles and what might work best for ferrites.


I can already see that its still not right on this rotor and still not able to accomplish even a partial rotation by holding magnet in hand.
Even a larger magnet is not working. Can't get it to attract to the next pole regardless of what angle I hold the bar magnet including the stronger, 3", bar.
The more I play with this the more I want to try replacing the ferrites with magnets.


And I am just not familiar enough with all the intricacies involving angles and field shapes but it's pretty clear this angle is still too shallow and need a much wider rotor for this size ferrites.
Not sure what you mean by "total angle". The angle on this is only about three degrees. (See attached)


I am curious what the result might be if the pole pieces of the rotor were actually "U" shapes which might result in carrying the 'incoming' magnetic force into the other leg of the pole.
If you approach one leg of a "U" shaped iron core with the north side of a magnet does this mean the other leg will become north pole and will have a momentary effect of repelling then attracting the incoming magnet as it passes by? Would this help us get past "sticky spots"? Or; am I way off course without instruments?


}:>

Dear Scorch
your V-gate is very interesting direction of development as far it is on pure ferrites.
Are you able to find time at next weekend and make flat gate as we have done?
If you have foam, you cam make holes on it , put the sticks on foam full depth and on the bottom of that submerged sticks you can have your bar magnet on 4 wheels like we have done.
If you will get result here the you can get result in round object such as rotor.
For bar magnet I can recommend this one:
 http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=81 (http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=81)
But I am not sure about right wideness as far I cant imagine the poles around of ferrites. see pic to understand what I mean
http://s58.radikal.ru/i160/1111/65/6784d7eaa2dd.jpg (http://s58.radikal.ru/i160/1111/65/6784d7eaa2dd.jpg)

Our working bar magnet have twice width to 2 magnets space on gate and we can guess that its need improvements, tests to find right dependence of bar magnet width   length and total step distance of 2 magnets. It is like here http://s58.radikal.ru/i159/1111/dc/01b0c0234610.jpg (http://s58.radikal.ru/i159/1111/dc/01b0c0234610.jpg)
 
 What is your gate total angle?
 Truly
 Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 20, 2011, 11:41:28 PM
I am very tempted to make a flat gate just to learn more about these angles and what might work best for ferrites.


I can already see that its still not right on this rotor and still not able to accomplish even a partial rotation by holding magnet in hand.
Even a larger magnet is not working. Can't get it to attract to the next pole regardless of what angle I hold the bar magnet including the stronger, 3", bar.
The more I play with this the more I want to try replacing the ferrites with magnets.


And I am just not familiar enough with all the intricacies involving angles and field shapes but it's pretty clear this angle is still too shallow and need a much wider rotor for this size ferrites.
Not sure what you mean by "total angle". The angle on this is only about three degrees. (See attached)


I am curious what the result might be if the pole pieces of the rotor were actually "U" shapes which might result in carrying the 'incoming' magnetic force into the other leg of the pole.
If you approach one leg of a "U" shaped iron core with the north side of a magnet does this mean the other leg will become north pole and will have a momentary effect of repelling then attracting the incoming magnet as it passes by? Would this help us get past "sticky spots"? Or; am I way off course without instruments?


}:>

Dear Scorch hi

"U" shapes is absolutely from different "opera music" phenomenon. I am not able to recommend you anything that is not tested by me or us.
Do you remember this? http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/0e/70484e06b7f4.jpg (http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/0e/70484e06b7f4.jpg)
here is the Cad model in DXF and PDF
http://depositfiles.com/files/he60k566s
try to do flat gate - extremely good field to test any such phenomenon and then to put it in circle shape if working.
Dont loose your weekends. Find running rotor or gate and then go back to ferrites.This is the way how I will go my job in this project
Ferrites is very interesting field but they dont have more attracting power than magnets, theory "running" around Ferrites differently than for magnets. It is waiting huge magnetic field to accomplish it own and that last accomplishment not such powerfull than if magnets will be instead of Ferrites. (КПД очень низкий  в таком режиме работы) an output-input ratio is subzero!Ferrites will not work alone without magnets, they are good staff to shift magnetic field of nearby magnet!I dont know how to say ( explane) that exactly in English, sorry:( Ferrites are very good when there is electricity creating magnetic poles around them.

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mdlarouche on November 25, 2011, 02:50:51 AM
I'd be willing to bet a working magnet motor is as simple as one lever and "two screws"...


a configuration the same as two screws... not two actual screws...


and of course the magnets.


If anyone already has one working they might know where I'm coming from.


Tell you more later!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 25, 2011, 05:29:02 AM
I'd be willing to bet a working magnet motor is as simple as one lever and "two screws"...


a configuration the same as two screws... not two actual screws...


and of course the magnets.


If anyone already has one working they might know where I'm coming from.


Tell you more later!

Hi dear mdlarouche,

a configuration the same as two screws with which one? Did you saw my last published drawings here? do you mean that?
do you have any picture of your mentioned motor?

truly
rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 25, 2011, 05:30:27 AM
I'd be willing to bet a working magnet motor is as simple as one lever and "two screws"...


a configuration the same as two screws... not two actual screws...


and of course the magnets.


If anyone already has one working they might know where I'm coming from.


Tell you more later!

Hi dear mdlarouche,

a configuration the same as two screws with which one? Did you saw my last published drawings here? do you mean that?
do you have any picture of your mentioned motor?

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: mdlarouche on November 25, 2011, 12:45:18 PM

Hi dear mdlarouche,

a configuration the same as two screws with which one? Did you saw my last published drawings here? do you mean that?
do you have any picture of your mentioned motor?

Truly
Rob


Did a search on your posts and came up with one image that stood out as being somewhat close to what I described as the layout I was considering... Not sure that it was in fact your image though... I just searched this thread but this was the link.


http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/0e/70484e06b7f4.jpg (http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/0e/70484e06b7f4.jpg)


The magnets are in that orientation on the wheel. In fact two wheels in the form of a screw and both of them need to be one single thread. One is the wheel that you will mount the magnets to the other is the follower or cam as on the ones I see here. If you took an automotive U-Joint... the part that is on the drive shaft and is in the shape of an X and you drilled a hole in it's centerline... parallel to what would be the drive shaft's centerline big enough to press a bearing into it. Then press a tube into the bearing and then into the tube you need to press a bearing into each end of that. Then mount two shafts on a frame whereby the tube's end bearings fit. You now have a modified drive shaft U-Joint that spins on the tube and the tube spins on the shafts attached to the frame.


Now I jumped the gun a little... on purpose though... just to describe the parts above so that you could see the main mounting points for everything else.


Now the single thread wheels I mentioned  are a press fit to the tube. You will need to figure out the spacing and that will be determined by your lever configuration.


The lever... OK here goes. If  you took apart a drive shaft to get parts then you will know that the U-Joint was mounted inside what is called a "Yoke". You need to make a yoke of your own or you can use the one that came with the drive shaft but you need to modify it first.


The Yoke has two bores that the "bearing cups" go in. If you made a hoop with two bores just like the yoke and attached two rods opposite from each other and a 90 degrees to the bore's then that is basically all you need.


At the end of one rod you would need a sort of "hook" that would hook over the outside diameter of the one wheel to which the magnets will be mounted. On the other rod you will simply mount a bearing and also a magnet. The bearing will ride on the follower wheel and the magnet will simply pull the lever against it so you'll have to experiment to get the right strength magnet in this case.


I haven't actually built this but I'm pretty sure it will work... all magnets are in pull orientation. the follower wheel would be best to be steel so there's a constant pull on the lever/follower arm. Weight shouldn't be a factor... you just need stronger magnets.  This configuration eliminates the gate completely. If your thread wheels were say one inch... the part that the magnets are mounted to. You will need to blend the end of it out where the bearing would run off... call it a "lead off" just help eliminate banging. As well do the same to the other thread wheel.


With careful placement of your magnets you should always have a pair synchronized and pulling.


Oh one more thing. The bearing at the bottom of the lever you will need to put a stopper. Otherwise it will want to rotate with the rest of the assembly.


I'm in the process of finalizing construction of a gravity based motor and hope to be done in the next month. Been at this for eighteen months of construction and will be glad to go into testing. I have a design also for a complex Faraday motor as well. I will have a lot on the go for the next little while so I thought I'd give you and others the idea to think about and maybe try.


I attached a drawing which should help... If you need more description or have any questions... let me know


Marc
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 25, 2011, 09:23:01 PM


I attached a drawing which should help... If you need more description or have any questions... let me know


Marc
Hi dear Marc
thank you for such detailed explanation and drawing, I am impressed really, but did not understand drawing and principle on 100%, I am so sorry:( Just understoond that it is vertical & same V-gate with central axi as console type rotor on 1 ball bearing. If I am not right - correct me plz.
propably I need to  see its in action or 3d drawing to understand all your explanations, but life is life, and i am not genus:)
I will wait your construction, it will be grate pleasure for me to see if it is running already at your table!
Actually it is already late for me to start new project as far as I did not finish first, furthermore all magnets for v-gate motor already purchased, I am waithing them already 2,5 week.... hope to see them in good health when they will arrive:) http://s017.radikal.ru/i432/1111/76/78c36f2e3133.jpg
When my math.design model, PHP page for auto calculations of structure , motor it self will start running over the internet and on my table then I will switch to your motor again if you dont mined and of course with some analysed questions to you:)

and again -Thansk Marc!

Truly
Rob

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 26, 2011, 06:16:48 PM
OK dear people, we had come to the conclusion that we should go already very professional in this motor production as far as it's need very nice fabrication and all parts has to be not from ferromagnetic materials.
Our next goal is to built 3D printer that will print an exact copy of anything which has been scanned or drawn with CAD software. We can make parts of any devices, models, anything you can imagine … can come to life.

Here below is our next target video. We are well prepared engineers here to fabricate such devices to fabricate then itself as CNC reproduction (none metal parts) and put everyting into digital mode and sharpness!

All our running magnet rotors, "adult toys" and engineers wishes will be prepared in CAD and then will be executed in this nice brake down device from ABS plastic with fully controlled modeling and executing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NWTijvbZIQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NWTijvbZIQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOOCKuXBhBU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOOCKuXBhBU)
3D printer Cad drawing is here below.
http://depositfiles.com/files/soaqb5z0y (http://depositfiles.com/files/soaqb5z0y)
how to fabricate ABS rod extruder driver below
http://reprap.org/wiki/Geared_Nema17_Extruder_Driver
Printing Material Suppliers
http://reprap.org/wiki/Printing_Material_Suppliers
Open source software for CNC 3D printers for dif. 2 OS is here:
http://replicat.org/download

Have a nice fabrications guys!
God bless you!

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 26, 2011, 11:45:20 PM
Here we have new spiral V-gate concept to avoid top magnet mechanical up/down movement .
Comments in the YT video comment section.
Concept must be tested. I will inform you about tests result with this real rotor video even if it will bring negative result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8jTa04MVcM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8jTa04MVcM)
We are taking source idea from many US patents like this:

http://i069.radikal.ru/1111/a6/0700f7954b42.jpg

http://s017.radikal.ru/i401/1111/09/433be6bd9fa8.jpg


truly
rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: gauschor on November 27, 2011, 05:16:25 PM
I find this V Gate most interesting.  For it seems that the torque is strong enough to make more than 1 full rotation (if you remove the magnet on top) the work to lift the magnet up must be less than the remaining torque to make it move permanently. This seems to be the difficult point :( Unfortunately I got no idea how to do that either, just wanted to say keep the heads up and continue experimenting.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 27, 2011, 05:39:23 PM
I find this V Gate most interesting.  For it seems that the torque is strong enough to make more than 1 full rotation (if you remove the magnet on top) the work to lift the magnet up must be less than the remaining torque to make it move permanently. This seems to be the difficult point :( Unfortunately I got no idea how to do that either, just wanted to say keep the heads up and continue experimenting.

Hi dear gauschor,thanks for info Sir!
my flat V gate show us interesting data - first ~75% path comming form narrow shape of V structure to wide has most strong pulling force, other 20-25% up to the SP has less torque than first ~75% of v gate lenght.We are not going to remove top magnet, you did not understood me right.It will stay at place but we are going to test spiral V-gate rotor structure at vertical position because we can balance rotor relevantly to help it pass sector with less magnet force and pulling force. That is going to put wide V gate part low aganst of top magnet(out of magnet field), and we want to test all these thing without up/down movment to see if top magnet passing SP in such configuration.
see this video again to undertstand what I mean with spiral rotor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8jTa04MVcM

truly
rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on November 27, 2011, 08:31:01 PM
found very good instructions on line to built 3D Printer mechanics
http://reprap.org/wiki/Prusa_Mendel_Assembly (http://reprap.org/wiki/Prusa_Mendel_Assembly)
Also , here is the manual for construction same printer in PDF format
 http://depositfiles.com/files/o875d8iuz (http://depositfiles.com/files/o875d8iuz)

Hope this will help you to construct easy CNC to replicate your motors staff.
Absolutely amazing staff is 3D printer which prints your mechanical staff from 3mm ABS plastic rods

truly
rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 07, 2011, 10:33:26 PM
Hello dear people, I found who are creating CO2 mostly in US - It is USPS post
 We are fighting with who?:)) Monsters with idiot Brain?:)))
 
  I am absolutely confused and sad to see my staff in this crazy delivery path. See attached pic of map http://s50.radikal.ru/i130/1112/c8/fdf316a72b5b.jpg
 I had pay only 16$ for delivery and guess that USPS post mail service computing system do not have even "kid brain" data base to cut transportation expenses. Guess  they have big problem with fuel cost overdraft per year :( This is crazy to understand that we have to pay USPS more money to cut the path of delivery and USPS service fuel consumption... guess they are crazy. That is why China so smart and took all US and not only US market, sorry for that:(
  2000 km magnets running over the 1/2 US and still on the earth, crazy to understand that, sorry:(
 
 Detailed Results:
   
Processed through USPS Sort Facility, ,2011,JAMAICA, NY 11430
Processed through USPS Sort Facility,, 2011, CHICAGO, IL 60666
Shipment Accepted, 2011,  PETERSBURG, WV 26847


Truly,
IT Department, Armenia,Yerevan
Robert Sahakyan
Telecom DC Development PM
Data Center IT Infrastructure Chief Engineer 
 
 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 12:11:25 AM
I find this V Gate most interesting.  For it seems that the torque is strong enough to make more than 1 full rotation (if you remove the magnet on top) the work to lift the magnet up must be less than the remaining torque to make it move permanently. This seems to be the difficult point :( Unfortunately I got no idea how to do that either, just wanted to say keep the heads up and continue experimenting.
I agree,   the work needed to lift the movable stator needs to be less than the work produced...so how do we do it..... I think I may have a workable the answer.  Need to try a few things.     
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: garrypm on December 10, 2011, 12:47:30 AM
Hey Bill,
 
let us in on the answer - please.
 
Garry
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 12:58:20 AM
Hey Bill,
 
let us in on the answer - please.
 
Garry
No problem,  just need some time to put together a model that demonstrates the solution.  Give me a few days.   
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: garrypm on December 10, 2011, 02:37:01 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 04:32:56 PM
To move the stator with less force than that is produced may be acheived by a concept I call LevStat.   
Here is photo of the start of the build for the model LevStat device.   Base and rotor support.   
LevStat is work in progress and has been a joint effort between myself and another forum member by the name of Tom.   
More later.
Bill
 
 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 05:07:36 PM
Two levers are required to make this work.   
The first Lever is the Stator Lever.   The stator needs to be near zero weight,  so weights are added to the threaded stator lever to the left side of pivot pen.   The stator magnet is just over the green rotor wheel.   
More to come.
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 05:13:36 PM
The small brown wheel has two small magnets in it that would be used to move the next lever which I will explain later on..
Here are some views of the model.
Bill
 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 06:07:16 PM
The second lever is very important.  We only eleminate most of the weight of the stator with the first lever.   
We now need to move the stator with little effort even though it is being pulled down due to attraction.   
The photo shows a clear piece of plastic for the second lever which would have a magnet on its end.  Repulsion from the brown cog wheel would then move the stator at proper time with little force.   
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 06:10:40 PM
Another photo of the second lever.
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 06:40:59 PM
With LevStat we are moving the stator with a small force that is leveraged.  Yes distance is sacrificed but we understand...
The magnetic field strength of magnets toward each other drops/increases exponentially over distance.
However for a lever:
The force applied (at end points of the lever) is proportional to the ratio of the length of the lever arm measured between the fulcrum (pivoting point) and application point of the force applied at each end of the lever.
 
The Leveraged Stator Motor (LevStat) concept/device uses a lever as a means to move a stator magnet in a (all) permanent magnet motor.  The LevStat approach provides a method and basis for useful scientific study in the concept of using leverage when applied to exponential magnetic field differences with respect to stator distance and applied magnetic force. The LevStat approach only moves a magnetic stator (out of the way with leverage) during the time when the stator would be negatively/positively affected (sticky point) by the rotor magnetic field.
 
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 10, 2011, 08:52:00 PM
To move the stator with less force than that is produced may be acheived by a concept I call LevStat.   
Here is photo of the start of the build for the model LevStat device.   Base and rotor support.   
LevStat is work in progress and has been a joint effort between myself and another forum member by the name of Tom.   
More later.
Bill
Hi Bill, do you have any drawings , are you able to share them with dimensions?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 10, 2011, 09:21:37 PM
Hi Bill, do you have any drawings , are you able to share them with dimensions?
Sorry no drawings.   The green wheel is 97mm high.   This is a concept not something replicate so do not expect dimensions.
Do you understand the principles of how LevStat will work?
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 11, 2011, 12:29:31 AM
Sorry no drawings.   The green wheel is 97mm high.   This is a concept not something replicate so do not expect dimensions.
Do you understand the principles of how LevStat will work?
Bill
guess yes, but I can see radial moving path of top magnet and there is something just telling me that V-gate magnet structure on green wheel must have same radial focused magnets on its surface to meet top magnet radial movement as vertical, effective movement to pull v-gate from the relevant effective point.
Here I have questions to you Bill
- did you try cam as it was on primary one video to elevate top magnet?
- do you have any video to prove that cam not working when rotor getting relevant inertion force to pass SP based on its turning mass inertion?
- Why you took  on focus of your development this solution with  balanced LevStat ?
- why you are not using  magnet pusshing force from both sides of rotor by 2 separated brown discs with only 1 magnet to use simple calculated 2 lever to compensate as much as it is possible top magnet weight down force?
- why your bar magnet axi made from heavy metal if you can use carbon fiber 5mm tube? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6725__Carbon_Fiber_Tube_hollow_5x750mm.html
Such construction will elevate bar top magnet without having radial path and unnecessary weight of bar magnet. Do you understand my english Sir?, sorry:(

To be 100% sure that you understand my english and last proposal see my drawing pic - http://s017.radikal.ru/i428/1112/0d/c1fec3794bec.jpg
Glad to know if my updated ( based on yours ) proposal help you!
I want to express my grate thanks to you Bill, you pump up new idea and I had only just a bit polish it!
My magnets stuck in NY. When I wiil get them fanally you will see axactly this concept construction fabricated.
We will get this Grail and will drink from it the Armenian very good wine Sir!
Thank you Bill!!!!!!!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 11, 2011, 01:47:39 PM
guess yes, but I can see radial moving path of top magnet and there is something just telling me that V-gate magnet structure on green wheel must have same radial focused magnets on its surface to meet top magnet radial movement as vertical, effective movement to pull v-gate from the relevant effective point.
Here I have questions to you Bill
- did you try cam as it was on primary one video to elevate top magnet?
- do you have any video to prove that cam not working when rotor getting relevant inertion force to pass SP based on its turning mass inertion?
- Why you took  on focus of your development this solution with  balanced LevStat ?
- why you are not using  magnet pusshing force from both sides of rotor by 2 separated brown discs with only 1 magnet to use simple calculated 2 lever to compensate as much as it is possible top magnet weight down force?
- why your bar magnet axi made from heavy metal if you can use carbon fiber 5mm tube? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6725__Carbon_Fiber_Tube_hollow_5x750mm.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6725__Carbon_Fiber_Tube_hollow_5x750mm.html)
Such construction will elevate bar top magnet without having radial path and unnecessary weight of bar magnet. Do you understand my english Sir?, sorry:(

To be 100% sure that you understand my english and last proposal see my drawing pic - http://s017.radikal.ru/i428/1112/0d/c1fec3794bec.jpg (http://s017.radikal.ru/i428/1112/0d/c1fec3794bec.jpg)
Glad to know if my updated ( based on yours ) proposal help you!
I want to express my grate thanks to you Bill, you pump up new idea and I had only just a bit polish it!
My magnets stuck in NY. When I wiil get them fanally you will see axactly this concept construction fabricated.
We will get this Grail and will drink from it the Armenian very good wine Sir!
Thank you Bill!!!!!!!
Please note this is only a model to show how to possibly construct a working device using leverage. 
The question was "How do we move a stator with less force than what is produced?"   
My answer, which I think I have gone beyond explaining by building a model is that you use leverage.
The key is to use leverage to move the stator at the correct time to get away from the sticky spot with little force.   In this model the top stator arm is threaded aluminum which is light weight.  Maybe not as light as hollow carbon fiber tubes but it does allow for differnt combinations/sizes of stator magnets to be tested as well as control of the weight of the stator. 
My experiments found you only needed to move one side of stator arm up to have the needed effect for continuous rotation.   Try it by hand with your own track and you will see.   
As to V track.  You only need to use steal/iron on the rotor.   Not magnets.   No magnets on rotor.   Magnets on stator attract steal/iron on rotor.   Also, less expensive.   There are many ways to design the rotor.   So we developed an easy rotor shell that fits over the green flywheel that Iwill show that later.  It allows for adjustments to the placement of the rotor iron parts and makes it easy to interchange differnt test rotors.     
This LevStat design is for a simple proof of concept.  So please do not get too upset if I do not go out and buy your suggested carbon fiber rods and build the model with two sets of levers which would double the necessary adjustments and timings.   
I will try to have short video of the action of the second lever by next weekend.   
Bill
     
 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 11, 2011, 03:06:04 PM
Please note this is only a model to show how to possibly construct a working device using leverage. 
The question was "How do we move a stator with less force than what is produced?"   
My answer, which I think I have gone beyond explaining by building a model is that you use leverage.
The key is to use leverage to move the stator at the correct time to get away from the sticky spot with little force.   In this model the top stator arm is threaded aluminum which is light weight.  Maybe not as light as hollow carbon fiber tubes but it does allow for differnt combinations/sizes of stator magnets to be tested as well as control of the weight of the stator. 
My experiments found you only needed to move one side of stator arm up to have the needed effect for continuous rotation.   Try it by hand with your own track and you will see.   
As to V track.  You only need to use steal/iron on the rotor.   Not magnets.   No magnets on rotor.   Magnets on stator attract steal/iron on rotor.   Also, less expensive.   There are many ways to design the rotor.   So we developed an easy rotor shell that fits over the green flywheel that Iwill show that later.  It allows for adjustments to the placement of the rotor iron parts and makes it easy to interchange differnt test rotors.     
This LevStat design is for a simple proof of concept.  So please do not get too upset if I do not go out and buy your suggested carbon fiber rods and build the model with two sets of levers which would double the necessary adjustments and timings.   
I will try to have short video of the action of the second lever by next weekend.   
Bill
   
All kind of new tech things are starts from models,from motors to airplanes:)
OK Bill, but all our experiments with iron( not magnets) as V-track structure failed.We do not have any intention to continue such experiments.
We have good results with magnet type of V-tack, made already math model based on practical results and answers from measurments. We are going to continue only this direction of research.
Nothing are able to make us upset, we are at searching mode constantly and testing in the same time.
Thanks again for idea.
Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: maw2432 on December 11, 2011, 04:47:44 PM
All kind of new tech things are starts from models,from motors to airplanes:)
OK Bill, but all our experiments with iron( not magnets) as V-track structure failed.We do not have any intention to continue such experiments.
We have good results with magnet type of V-tack, made already math model based on practical results and answers from measurments. We are going to continue only this direction of research.
Nothing are able to make us upset, we are at searching mode constantly and testing in the same time.
Thanks again for idea.
Truly
Rob
I agree iron v gates are not the way to go.   There are other designs for the rotor with iron. 
Bill
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: FatBird on December 11, 2011, 09:50:29 PM
.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on December 13, 2011, 08:41:44 PM
I agree iron v gates are not the way to go.   There are other designs for the rotor with iron. 
Bill
Try to find a solution from the magnets point of view. No V-gate will work. Robert33 has already confirmed that his experiment is a joke - ther is no working V-gate. Still some people tries to replicate his mistakes. I don't get it ;D


Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 13, 2011, 11:52:44 PM
Try to find a solution from the magnets point of view. No V-gate will work. Robert33 has already confirmed that his experiment is a joke - ther is no working V-gate. Still some people tries to replicate his mistakes. I don't get it ;D


Vidar
Hi Dear Vidar
look to this my own tests, tell me what you can see in video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM
V-gate structure working Sir, I am so sorry for that:) 65% math model are ready to be tested and implemented to reproduce this motor from wideo!
After all tests 100% of math model will be finished and shared here and all over the internet for copy!Dont make angry old USSR Armenian engineers Sir:)
 As I said 7 powerfull programmers, maths and mechancis are working here to built it.We are not crazy Sir, we are not loosing our time at all if we can not see seed!
Roobert 33 conformation is fake, read all history here and you will find out why it is fake Sir!He soldout motor to someone.Think deeper, is there anybody in this world that are ready to buy not working toy? Guess, No!

furthermore,our works progress as far as magnets delayed:
we had find out how to make 99% shield of magnetic force.He is the video guys.Conformed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mayO2RsLfaQ
Guess, until my dam magnets  will arrive from NY I will be able to use my time and digout all planet from north pole to south and find all relevant solutions to make magnets work as I want:)

Truly,
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Scorch on December 15, 2011, 08:57:55 PM
Hello all.


Finally got around to doing a little more work on this.


I never was able to obtain even a partial rotation, with either rotor, using ferites and decided to try playing with magnets.


In the interest of cost, and ease of assembly, I'm going to start with just plain ceramic magnet disks on the rotor that measure 20mm diameter X 5mm thick.
To be mounted on a 75mm wide rotor that is 100mm diameter.


And using a neodymium stator magnet which is a 75mm Long X 12mm Wide X 10mm Thick (Magnetized through thickness)


The V angle is around 5 degrees.
(see attached.)


Are there any suggestions as to the SPACING of these magnets along a five degree V-ramp?


Scorch.


PS: OU web form still double spacing everything as I use GOOGLE CHROME.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 16, 2011, 10:53:57 PM


Are there any suggestions as to the SPACING of these magnets along a five degree V-ramp?


Scorch.


PS: OU web form still double spacing everything as I use GOOGLE CHROME.
Hi dear Scorch,
I can only recommend you go with us with this drawing logic http://www.sendspace.com/file/f6fosn (http://www.sendspace.com/file/f6fosn)
Magnets are arrived and  we had start to read them.Our works started!
http://s07.radikal.ru/i180/1112/21/b3f54aefa1ec.jpg

You are asking the most good question when asking about the gap between magnets.
So, our conclusions are the following in this issue:
-gap shall not be less than 2.3mm and no more 3mm when you are using 10mmx5m Neo magnets
Why it is good question - you need to read your own magnets pole force outlines by the magnet viewer as I had show on video below and some pics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ILhuvs_TI
http://i026.radikal.ru/1112/8f/1cfbaa1b320c.jpg
 http://s017.radikal.ru/i413/1112/1b/7eaf2f3cfefc.jpg
 http://i058.radikal.ru/1112/8a/379666c2b063.jpg
 

Why you need to read - pole force outlines shall become almost a straight line with just a little "wow" as digit 8. As much outline are straight and do not have "wow" that much V-track will be more powerfull, but here we have warring - do put magnets more close than 2.3mm because huge magnet force degradation will come soon.in gap 3mm it is will lost its magnetic force in 1 year about on 7-10%.Every 1mm additional in gap prolonging the life of magnets on about 2-3% after 2.3mm but you are loosing moment of rotor by increasing of that gap.

To show what I mean by "wow"( sorry for that crazy word, I dont know other to explane in english) , and how outlines of fields are becoming almost straight when you are using neo magnet by mentioned dimensions and gap - hope you can take my (our) advise Sir!

Our news in project progress now already will come soon!


Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 23, 2011, 12:10:19 AM
First steps in fabrication of V-gate. We decided to go with flexible gate type to be able to play with it in such need for many different tests.
This gate going to be placed on EPP rotor. Mean time we are going to glue it to rotor dram, but if we will get all what we calculated in math part then this structure going to be placed on rotor by Velcro. Such tech solution will give us ability to change gate magnets in 10 min if they will be damaged or degraded by its force.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR8ZMHg8ao8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR8ZMHg8ao8)

and here is our math source base. finally understood how to show it to you and find it in YT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKmJVZCoMOI
truly
rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: gauschor on December 23, 2011, 04:58:20 PM
Interesting, I also thought about arranging magnets in phi distances etc., but didn't try many experiments. Magnets are a bitch somehow... but maybe there is a way to make permanent magnet motors work with phi maths as a base.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 24, 2011, 12:02:19 AM
Guys, I have bad news about my purchased magnet, especially magnet for top bar magnet. Magnetic viewer show us bad picture when we look at the composit magnet magnetic field structure:( God bless us that we have that good tool!!!
so, I made video to warn you all what you shall not to buy for top bar magnets magnets Information based on our experiments with alive V-gate model that we have
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlzHZyqWZJ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlzHZyqWZJ0)

Dear gauschor, you are right!! Magnets are a bitch somehow!!!! and there are no way to understand what we are purchasing :(((((((((
About Phi - if you wish go with our math model, I had put drawings in DXF format and in the PDF format in pages ago,  you can find them. If not tell me and I will live new link here to that drawings and our math model.Hope you will understand our drawing language step by step developed logic

I am absolutely disappointed about fabricated rotor that we have got last night. It is going to be re fabricated by CNC already. I am angry as crazy animal now, sorry guys:( There are no easy ways to get this damn motor... f...ck:( Project postponed up to the end of February... Magnets are arriving 3 weeks to us:(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTvXJKFYnUo

Bar magnet - how it must be at it's range of size based on our tests.File has cad 1:1 scale DXF drawing and its pic. at JPG format.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/e3s41h

We ( all our team guys) want to congratulate you all with coming Christmas and Happy New Year 2012! Wish you best mountain health, happiness and better financial situation at all over the new 2012!

Truly
Rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on December 28, 2011, 06:24:21 PM
just a little info update  A note from Howard R.Johnson about V-gate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQL7ip1jCY)
Iput on comments torrent file to download full movie(670mb)
it has russian translation of movie,sorry
truly
rob
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on January 01, 2012, 04:10:19 AM
Hi guys, happy new year!!!
After examining patent presented above, we found out dependence that never noticed.
V- angle has about 5 degree angle, don't you? OK, the first  narrow part of gate - 3 magnets gap for 6x6mm magnets is 6mm, at the next stage when angular distance becoming bigger the gap between magnets also must be changed to bigger.A bit later I will tell you the right dependence of the gaps to angular distance change.Why we had focused to this point and start examination - we noticed that bar magnet not from all places on the flat V-gate has the same attraction force, even there are some place that we did not have attraction absolutely. If V-gate is serial windowed system then from all place at the gate liner distance we shall get the same at taction force, but we did not! So, we had come to the hard conclusion that gap between the magnets has to be different as much as the liner angular distance between N and S sides of gate becoming bigger. We need other portion of experiments to find that dependence formula. We are very close to see our gate perfect guys, this is very good note that we made for us! New Year very good wine help us to think relaxed:))))))))))))
BTW if you have seen the patent and movie you must find difference between announced patent drawing and shown gate setup:) Try to find it, if not , I will show it in my next message, you will be very excited:)Patent do not open all tricks! Now I have to run to my wife parents to say Happy new year:))
P.S. magnet field viewer card is grate tool guys, who are busy with gates developments - just buy it and you can drive your mind conc;usions very easy because you can see all magnet forces, lines etc. amazing staff!!!
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on January 02, 2012, 01:25:38 AM
Hi guys, we made Howard R.Jonson patent 5.402.021 gate magnets not full and rough setup and have got this, shown below picture. Amazing field structure, now we have to think how to use sinwave form magnets fields at the gate and rotor.This investigation will go in parallel with general V-gate one as far we never saw such fields before and nobody here told us about such nice picture. Here we are a bit pity because we are starting to think that you are covering very valuable info.

Guess nobody here who are reading this topic want and need to see us successive in this magnet rotor project. If this is true we will stop supply further info to you guys, sorry. We are waiting your help if you know how to use sinwave magnet fields to get rotor running.

Is there anybody here that can explane why Howard R.Jonson gate not provided or explained us as better solution to construct magnet rotor ?
 
http://s61.radikal.ru/i172/1201/82/7c6064b2b32a.gif (http://s61.radikal.ru/i172/1201/82/7c6064b2b32a.gif)   - view part of magnet setup from patent

http://s017.radikal.ru/i434/1201/81/af9fb17a8a4f.jpg (http://s017.radikal.ru/i434/1201/81/af9fb17a8a4f.jpg)  - our ruff setup of megnets  based on patent drawing

http://s017.radikal.ru/i442/1201/1c/6040280a5eac.jpg (http://s017.radikal.ru/i442/1201/1c/6040280a5eac.jpg) - magnet fields structure

Truly
Rob
(Read 84113 times)

P.S. see our new flat V-gate that can take 1kg load
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDM60mY4vlA
There are only 20 magnets 6x6x15mm neo magnets and general old HDD magnet because it has very interesting to us pole structure.
New gate has approximation of number of magnets.We learn how to reduce magnets, make larger gap between them and do not lose cinetic energy from gate.
(Read 84158 times:) hmm, 45 reads in 1,5 hour:) not bad stats:)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: hund4444 on January 04, 2012, 08:45:50 AM
H
i do you know what size of magnets he used

i´m trying to build on

PLEASE : i nead my answer as fast as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you :)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on January 04, 2012, 12:23:42 PM
H
i do you know what size of magnets he used

i´m trying to build on

PLEASE : i nead my answer as fast as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you :)
Hi hund4444
Welcome on board and Merry Christmas!

First of all I recommend you to read pages from 34 up to this one.http://www.overunity.com/10034/new-permanent-magnet-motor-on-youtube-from-roobert33/510/ (http://www.overunity.com/10034/new-permanent-magnet-motor-on-youtube-from-roobert33/510/)


If you will still be agree after examinations of such huge forum topic info  to construct this motor then take my drawings in Cad DXF format and try to construct.http://www.sendspace.com/file/nzamud (http://www.sendspace.com/file/nzamud) It is revers engineering result of video and in scale 1:1.Based on this drawing rotor magnets have 1/2x1/2x1/2 size.64pcs and also it has 1 bar magnet... and one bottom magnets. Up to now I am trying such magnet size and did not get relevant result!.

If you have budjet about $300 and a bit more for this rotor parts and can wait about 12 days then go to this shop and buy magnets or find our your self relevant on line other shops for good Neo magnets.http://apexmagnets.com/?gclid=CP2Ohs_f96sCFcyHDgod2whdYw (http://apexmagnets.com/?gclid=CP2Ohs_f96sCFcyHDgod2whdYw)

To spent money you have to be sure what you are doing, so, if all this warnings did not stop you then you know what you are doing - wish you good start and good finish in this grate project Sir.

Why all this was written info to you ? because up to know from October 30 2011 we are trying to get good results and only pass the half way of it. Probably you will be more lucky than we are!.

Truly
Rob

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: McGiver30 on January 05, 2012, 07:34:13 AM
the video's and pictures dont describe the gate or show it.. i am curious as to the arrangement of the gate.
and where can one get the fluxx paper at a decent price?
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on January 06, 2012, 09:12:14 AM
the video's and pictures dont describe the gate or show it.. i am curious as to the arrangement of the gate.
and where can one get the fluxx paper at a decent price?
If understood you correct about "fluxx paper" then they are here:
http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=6 (http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=6)
http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=211 (http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=211)
What description format of V-gate you want to see Sir?
Guess you are not able to open/use  DXF format,pity..
Tell me your format, I will prepare file format what ever you need.Just explain what you need to see in detail description of V-gate.

Truly
Rob
(stat:Read 85820 times)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on January 13, 2012, 09:25:37 AM
Hi guys, we are still on math model with new structure that we have got based on HRJ patent. Now we are start to use for calculations powerfull software named by Ansys Maxwell 2D/3D http://www.ansoft.com/products/em/maxwell/ and in the same time testing all what we have got from math models - practically all results.

Maxwell can automatically generate both nonlinear equivalent circuits and state-space models from the field parameters that may be further utilized in system and circuit simulation analysis. This provides engineers the ability to perform a comprehensive analysis of the component with its drive circuit, loads and other system parameters.

Here is some video about our first try's to configure magnets math model and some interference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe0QaJVYbUs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe0QaJVYbUs)


Truly
Rob
(Read 87469 times)
 
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Arrow on March 20, 2012, 11:35:47 PM
Hi guys, I have got video block from YT administration of this motor video replication and what is the most strange I have got blocked video of my own magnet degradation tool experiment that was started in Oct 27 for 1 year.
I took new video with fresh results regarding the demonstration tool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLj7tjGqTCE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLj7tjGqTCE)
Here the evidence screen shot that YT blocking V-gate motors videos
http://s019.radikal.ru/i627/1203/5c/975970d2934c.jpg (http://s019.radikal.ru/i627/1203/5c/975970d2934c.jpg)
Here the explanation that I have got from YT after video blocking
Regarding V-gate Rooberto 33 video :Информация о Вашем аккаунте MrArrow1961Участники сообщества YouTube отметили одно или несколько из ваших видео как неприемлемые. Отмеченные видео проверяются командой YouTube на предмет нарушения принципов сообщества. После рассмотрения следующих видео мы пришли к выводу, что в них содержатся материалы, нарушающие наши принципы. Список отключенных видео:Магнитный мотор на  неодимовых 64   3 магнитахПодробную информацию о принципах сообщества YouTube и их соблюдении можно узнать в справочном центре: http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=92486 (http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=92486).С уважением,Коллектив YouTube

Regarding my own tool video notification:
Информация о Вашем аккаунте MrArrow1961
Участники сообщества YouTube отметили одно или несколько из ваших видео как неприемлемые. Отмеченные видео проверяются командой YouTube на предмет нарушения принципов сообщества. После рассмотрения следующих видео мы пришли к выводу, что в них содержатся материалы, нарушающие наши принципы. Список отключенных видео:
Инструмент для срав. измерения деградации магнитов
Подробную информацию о принципах сообщества YouTube и их соблюдении можно узнать в справочном центре: http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=92486 (http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=92486).
С уважением,Коллектив YouTube

Guess Google getting crazy! I will try by my all power of telecom guy to find the person who stop this videos as far as Google has their servers at our Data Center  and we have formal relations with its administration.
I will keep you informed what is going on with google.
If someone from this forum know exactly and formally what is going on then you are kindly asked to explane the real reason - why this videos was blocked?
I will find the true in any way as Telecom guy the man who was done it. But first I want to know this forum community confession, declaration as far as only place where video share was here!

Dear Stefan, you have here not good guys I think, please start works with filtration of such crazy users!!!
I will do my best!Some one going to play games with real fire here, I will fnd the Man! Keep going guys! Do your next moves!

Stefan, sorry we are stopping our team participiation in this forum - not secure place!

Regards & Truly
Rob
Read 101036 times
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: psychegr on May 28, 2012, 12:34:24 PM
Hi guys!

I am new to this forum. I came here by luck and started reading about the V-Gate motor and i got amazed!
For your info, i am an Electronics Engineer and have some good knowledge in mechanics also!

I wont tell if the V-gate motor, that roobert33 built, is true or not! What i have understood is that the problem is the "Sticky point".
What i understand is that the "sticky point's" force is equal or double the force that "moves" or turns around the motor, so when the motor reaches the sticky point it stops or starts turning at the opposite side!

So i have come up with an idea! The concept is to keep the stator magnet at the fixed point that is required to "push" the motor and use another force to push the motor at the sticky point so that it can pass it and continue moving with the magnet power! This force can be gravity! The image below describes exactly what i have in my mind but i can t really test it! I dont have the required parts! So if anyone can try it on an existing V gate motor i would be glad to know the results!
Maybe i am completely wrong but it would worth the 10 minutes that i spent from my free time to think and design this!

Cheers guys and i am waiting for results!
Padelis

http://i.imgur.com/051bW.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/051bW.jpg)
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Rocketdog on October 20, 2012, 05:08:29 AM
Hi guys. I've read through most of this thread, and I still can't tell if this thing is real or not. Has anyone successfully duplicated this wheel?

If it really works I assume something is being withheld about it's construction. I'm pretty sure the bottom magnet isn't attraction, it has to be repulsion.

I agree the magnets appear to be 1/2" x 1/2". I don't believe they're just iron. The wheel is 4"x 6". The bar is attracting. There has to be more than that going on though.
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Low-Q on October 20, 2012, 08:48:35 PM
Rocketdog. You missed the part in this thread that says this motor is a fake. The inventor himself says it too. I cant believe there is 43 pages on this topic  (Well, 44 pages now) ;-)


"The motor does not self run", is the very final conclusion.



Vidar
Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Rocketdog on October 21, 2012, 07:26:10 AM
Rocketdog. You missed the part in this thread that says this motor is a fake. The inventor himself says it too. I cant believe there is 43 pages on this topic  (Well, 44 pages now) ;-)


"The motor does not self run", is the very final conclusion.



Vidar

I did in fact see the part where some guy calling himself roobert33 said he faked it, over a year after the thread was started. The problem is, anyone can claim to be anyone on the innerweb.

The pictures he posted didn't look like the exact same machine. He didn't seem to have an explanation why they were different.

And lastly, a working machine of this type would be very high on the list of misinformation agents to discredit.

Having said all that, I think it's probably a fake, but there didn't seem to be a clear consensus. That's the only reason I ask.

Title: Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
Post by: Khwartz on March 10, 2018, 12:21:33 AM
NO EXPERIMENT CAN PROVE AN OTHER IS FAKE WHEN NO ACCESS TO THE ORIGINAL REAL OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT; IT CAN ONLY PROVE IT IS \\POSSIBLE// TO FAKE IT ;-)

And for the other way:

NO EXPERIMENT CAN PROVE THAT AN OTHER IS NOT// FAKE WHEN NO ACCESS TO THE ORIGINAL REAL OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT; IT CAN ONLY PROVE IT IS \\POSSIBLE// TO MAKE IT WORK (just in this case, it is All what we ask here! ^_^ ).

Regards,
Didier