Author Topic: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33 (Read 567248 times)

Scorch · « **Reply #585 on:** November 17, 2011, 06:29:27 PM »

Upon examination of the new image of the rocker (See: RoobertsRocker.png) I see the following:
#1 A beveled piece, presumably a block of wood, that is painted silver and some of that paint is noticeable, in two places, below the block, on the glue, between the block and the brass.
#2 A line that goes down the middle of the block of the wood giving the impression of two pieces.
#3 A very custom brass assembly with specific shapes and solder patterns.

While true the original video is very low resolution; I can still see all of these features. (See: Video or VideoRocker.png)
The most obvious being the beveled edges, color, and identical glue points that have the exact same paint pattern.
This leads me to believe that the original video did not have a magnetic rocker.

I also believe the following:
-Machined aluminum rods will have the exact appearance as found in the original video.
-Custom made, nickel plated, ferrites will NOT have the same appearance as the rods in the original video because they are cut with a saw and not machined on a rotary lathe.
-The rotor in the original video is wider than I originally thought and the main suppliers of magnets, at least in the US, do not stock a 1/4"X1/4"X2.5" or 3" neodymium magnet.
-Roobert33 produced the original video, submitted it to youtube, and still has the same hand.
-The original sound track was removed.
-The original video is very low resolution. (Presumably to mask features such as paint and wood grain on 'magnets')

Therefor, based on all the above, plus testimony from Roobert33 himself, in answer to the age old question of THIS forum, as it relates to the youtube user "overunitydotcom" video titled: "selfrunning working permanent magnet motor from Roobert33 is it a Fake?"

I am now of the position the original video, IS, in FACT, Fake.

I am also of the position this is all completely irrelevant to the goal and current experiments.

And I am of the position that PESN should review it's articles regarding who did what with regards to this device.

I am also of the position that the double carriage returns, this new form keeps adding to my reply, are very annoying!
(using google chrome)
And that its time to stop writing and start experimenting and buying more parts!

And its entirely possible you may see nothing more from me, until such time I might actually have something to show you, with regards to this particular device.

}:>

Quote from: Arrow on November 17, 2011, 03:11:20 PM

Hi Rob, ok I regret that you are telling here that your rotor not working one as far as your shown fake second rotor did not prove that first one fake. . .
Rob

roobert33 · « **Reply #586 on:** November 17, 2011, 07:41:45 PM »

Hi Scorch, I wanted to let you know that I will write no more in this forum. If sometimes you want to know some technical information, you can do it through my YT email address.
Bye!

http://www.youtube.com/user/Roobert33?feature=mhee

Arrow · « **Reply #587 on:** November 17, 2011, 11:33:15 PM »

Quote from: Scorch on November 17, 2011, 06:29:27 PM

I am now of the position the original video, IS, in FACT, Fake.

}:>

Dear Scorch, if you still interesting to this video v-gate magnet pole structure see attached pic. This is what working at my flat gate normally and even if you count video is fake - it is working there in right way. If bar magnet will be installed in different way then it will jump up when rotor turning.See to be sure in my words here the bar position at start up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXc_OObIZ8A
Here is the N to N, in our video S to N and it is sticky because gate magnets pull bar magnet.

I still in position that video not fake, sorry.Some one made big mistake to show motor on line and want to close my sharp eyes from evidence of real working V-gate rotor:) funny story here for me, sorry again everybody:) I dont care who made and who lost it, but he have done good work!
BRAVO MAN!!!!YOU HAVE brilliant brain!!! because of that , dont warry, be happy, you will create an other good staff for your family, but remember
- heavy train is coming and we are coming and nobody could stop:))) Do your best in time!

I made frame by frame original video fragment to show you important things in magnet structure by cursor, etc
Unfortunately it is not possible do not know v-gate principles/behavior and make such clever "fake" video:) This is what telling me my own observations from physical reconstruction of flat v-gate - I have here absolutely 1:1 behavior - I swear to SUN in my eyes! see it again here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM
frame by frame is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDPhiAChfE8
pole of magnets is here
http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/f1/69a3a8ca655b.jpg
I am not sure for 100% about poles of bottom magnet one, I will clarify that soon.

No problem people - only solution! - you will get soon motor structure drawings here to construct it by your own! Promise!!!
Truly
Rob

Scorch · « **Reply #588 on:** November 18, 2011, 05:10:20 PM »

I am still interested and I'm waiting for some cheapo ceramic magnets I am going to use to build a new rotor.
I don't actually see an attached picture here.

Doesn't matter if its fake because, mechanically speaking, its still a good design providing two points of mechanical switching.
Roobert33 is the original provider of the video and obviously has some of the original parts in his possession so the statements at PESN that Calloway is Roobert33 is highly questionable.

I never saw the text, if any, that might have been included with Roobert33's original youtube submission but, he has never given me any reason to believe he is lying.

Please explain:
What type of magnet has the color of polished aluminum and the circular, Fresnel, cut patterns of a rotary lathe resulting in these light reflections in the shape of an hour glass?
I have round neodymium magnets and they are NOT the same appearance as the 'magnets' in the original video.

I would also like to know where I can find a 1/4"T X 1/4"H X 2.5" or 3"L neodymium magnet that would match the length of the bar 'magnet' in the original video?
The magnet in the original video is clearly square, on the end, so its NOT a cylinder or rod magnet.

BTW: Thank you for the additional analysis.
As far as pole orientation is concerned; I still picture, in my mind, the device should function in a purely attractive configuration such as all north on rotor with a south facing bar magnet which will have the strongest attraction towards the point of the V and not towards the widest part as your track is currently set up. But this is just my own mind. There may actually be more than one configuration that might work.

}:>

Quote from: Arrow on November 17, 2011, 11:33:15 PM

Dear Scorch, if you still interesting to this video v-gate magnet pole structure see attached pic. This is what working at my flat gate normally and even if you count video is fake - it is working there in right way. If bar magnet will be installed in different way then it will jump up when rotor turning.See to be sure in my words here the bar position at start up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXc_OObIZ8A
Here is the N to N, in our video S to N and it is sticky because gate magnets pull bar magnet.

I still in position that video not fake, sorry.Some one made big mistake to show motor on line and want to close my sharp eyes from evidence of real working V-gate rotor:) funny story here for me, sorry again everybody:) I dont care who made and who lost it, but he have done good work!
BRAVO MAN!!!!YOU HAVE brilliant brain!!! because of that , dont warry, be happy, you will create an other good staff for your family, but remember
- heavy train is coming and we are coming and nobody could stop:))) Do your best in time!

I made frame by frame original video fragment to show you important things in magnet structure by cursor, etc
Unfortunately it is not possible do not know v-gate principles/behavior and make such clever "fake" video:) This is what telling me my own observations from physical reconstruction of flat v-gate - I have here absolutely 1:1 behavior - I swear to SUN in my eyes! see it again here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM
frame by frame is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDPhiAChfE8
pole of magnets is here
http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/f1/69a3a8ca655b.jpg
I am not sure for 100% about poles of bottom magnet one, I will clarify that soon.

No problem people - only solution! - you will get soon motor structure drawings here to construct it by your own! Promise!!!
Truly
Rob

Arrow · « **Reply #589 on:** November 18, 2011, 08:47:02 PM »

Quote from: Scorch on November 18, 2011, 05:10:20 PM

I am still interested and I'm waiting for some cheapo ceramic magnets I am going to use to build a new rotor.
I don't actually see an attached picture here.

Please explain:
What type of magnet has the color of polished aluminum and the circular, Fresnel, cut patterns of a rotary lathe resulting in these light reflections in the shape of an hour glass?
I have round neodymium magnets and they are NOT the same appearance as the 'magnets' in the original video.

I would also like to know where I can find a 1/4"T X 1/4"H X 2.5" or 3"L neodymium magnet that would match the length of the bar 'magnet' in the original video?
The magnet in the original video is clearly square, on the end, so its NOT a cylinder or rod magnet.

BTW: Thank you for the additional analysis.
As far as pole orientation is concerned; I still picture, in my mind, the device should function in a purely attractive configuration such as all north on rotor with a south facing bar magnet which will have the strongest attraction towards the point of the V and not towards the widest part as your track is currently set up. But this is just my own mind. There may actually be more than one configuration that might work.

}:>

Hi dear Scorch

to:<I don't actually see an attached picture here>.
I am not able to upload pics here that is why using dif. server to public fotos there and share only its links here, sorry. I had put the link with pic where you can see poles of magnets at rotor. See link above.

to:<I would also like to know where I can find...>
here the link to online shop in US for magnets http://apexmagnets.com/?gclid=CP2Ohs_f96sCFcyHDgod2whdYw
I dont think that exact 1/4"T X 1/4"H X 2.5" or 3"L size are very important.That is why I am working on it to find the dependence of magnet size on rotor to magnet size and strength of it in bars formula.

to:<What type of magnet has the color of polished aluminum and the circular, Fresnel, cut patterns of a rotary lathe resulting in these light reflections in the shape of an hour glass?>
Can you polish magnets as stainless still look? I can do that with turning wood stick and special metal polish, so, I thing inventor do his task very much taff to cover the real situation with magnets even on primary video.

to: <the device should function in a purely attractive configuration such as all north on rotor with a south facing bar magnet which will have the strongest attraction towards the point of the V>
absolutely right vision!

to:<There may actually be more than one configuration that might work.>
all configs are based on all parts dimensions - that is why I want to workout formula for calculation of different V shapes with dif. magnets size.
Here is below my working small baby V-gate pic with all sizes on it in DXF drawing. This is working, has good attraction, so I am able to share the true to people and to you my friend! This is my base and I am working on it to get math formula.If I will find good and true dependence then formula will be programmed to PHP language to publish it in the internet as "Magnet V-gate Motor Shape Calculator" You will need to insert 1 size - rotor magnet size and it will calculate automatically all other staff for you. Probably it will be able even to provide simple drawing to snapshot it from screen. When I am telling "heavy train is coming" I guess nobody can understand what I mean- on line free motor calculator is "heavy train" Sir:) Armenian fully armed 7 programmers and maths are here people. V-gate solution will be open for everyone!

Programm and maths for v-gate will look like this staff http://fwcg.3dzone.dk/
If we can fly on wings http://s017.radikal.ru/i438/1111/67/656711c2e7d5.jpg then why are not able to create such page to "fly" with V-gate"?

))))

Photo:
http://s017.radikal.ru/i423/1111/79/6bef256db8ba.jpg
drawing in scale 1:1:
http://depositfiles.com/files/s0pddutca
drawing in scale 1:1 PDF version
http://depositfiles.com/files/qr8tq9riy
Proposed drawing scale control picture
http://s59.radikal.ru/i164/1111/89/97fadef880f2.jpg
my video where I am testing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Hug7CPDIM

And Finlay: I am not interested to any names who made this invention as far as the man who made it not intersted to supply us right info and/or any info in did.
We are here alone to workout our gates and that is reality. It is absolutely no matter who is that man for me and I am not going to spent my expensive life time to find him in the world:)

dear Scorch - please translate for me from engllish to english amarican expression "weed hopper" I want to know its reall meanning, please!

Truly
Rob
P.S.
We are very happy to see that many US states people are interesting to this topic!
Guys we will never set you up!
If we said something - we are doing it, if we love somebody/something- in did we love, if we hate - in did we hate!
Thats the Armenians in its nature!
YTmap - for our v-gate video
Thanks for watching and trust to Armenian 7 crazy guys!
http://s009.radikal.ru/i307/1111/f1/6f254e5c265a.jpg

Scorch · « **Reply #590 on:** November 19, 2011, 01:43:38 AM »

I have not heard the term "weed hopper" in at least two decades.
In my world; it referred to an ultralight aircraft.
Such as pictured here:
http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg

And, if I ever buy one, it will have full aerobatic capabilities.

}:>

Quote from: Arrow on November 18, 2011, 08:47:02 PM

dear Scorch - please translate for me from engllish to english amarican expression "weed hopper" I want to know its reall meanning, please!

Truly
Rob

maw2432 · « **Reply #591 on:** November 19, 2011, 02:14:51 AM »

Quote from: Scorch on November 19, 2011, 01:43:38 AM

I have not heard the term "weed hopper" in at least two decades.
In my world; it referred to an ultralight aircraft.
Such as pictured here:
http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg

And, if I ever buy one, it will have full aerobatic capabilities.

}:>

Sorry for the confusion about "weed hopper".
It was just one of my own sayings that was derived from zen and martial arts saying "grass hopper" which means someone who is learning. To move the stator, one needs to move it as in zen, with flow, little force, redirected.
Bill

Arrow · « **Reply #592 on:** November 19, 2011, 03:03:40 AM »

Quote from: Scorch on November 19, 2011, 01:43:38 AM

I have not heard the term "weed hopper" in at least two decades.
In my world; it referred to an ultralight aircraft.
Such as pictured here:
http://quicksilverultralight.com/images/for_sale/for_sale_ELSA_Sprint_Blue2.jpg

And, if I ever buy one, it will have full aerobatic capabilities.

}:>

LOVE IT VERY MUCH!thanks:) I CAN EVEN IMAGINE HOW WIND BLOWING EARS IN THAT PLANE IN ! GRATE ONE for weed hopper:)

If you need aerobatic model to try then it is Sbach 300 and its structure here to built ( sorry for russian in PDF drawing)
http://depositfiles.com/files/ua14p2l54
hope you will love my research and model drawing because I am doing such things under the classic music by I.S. Bach to be with my Zen:)

Arrow · « **Reply #593 on:** November 19, 2011, 03:07:13 AM »

Quote from: maw2432 on November 19, 2011, 02:14:51 AM

Sorry for the confusion about "weed hopper".
It was just one of my own sayings that was derived from zen and martial arts saying "grass hopper" which means someone who is learning. To move the stator, one needs to move it as in zen, with flow, little force, redirected.
Bill

Thanks Bill for translation:) I know that already

and again I did not understand your english term:( what is ZEN and what flow you mean?spiritual?

ZEN is that from Buddhism?
are you kidding?

)) nice try:)
may I move it without zen and its spiritual flow?

rotor is too simple part to use Zen and concenration, most heavy parth to make universal software for such rotors where you need to have not only Zen power but also open wide sky eye at rear side of your head:)
I think I am already done it:) Why I need to use my zen power if I can accumulate it's power comming from earth by using it for long and happy life dear?

I really love this topic in forum:))))))) It is never leaving my face without smile:)

Truly
Rob

Arrow · « **Reply #594 on:** November 19, 2011, 10:15:25 PM »

Quote from: Scorch on November 19, 2011, 01:43:38 AM

}:>

Dear Scorch , dear people,
here we are with our first betta release of math logic that we are going to implement into PHP programming language.
It is not finished as far as experiments not finished with finding the relevant horizontal V-gate bar magnet size dependence.
All other information in drawing are tested - working for flat V-gate
This is complex maths based on not only old type of calculations but also on to US patent 4456858, 1984year - inventor- James F. Loven.
We had show its ( math) part to simplify our language of communication with people.

http://depositfiles.com/files/m93n93051 hope you and other people will love it:)
We will be very glad to know if some one will help us here in our English inside of DXF file.
We are very sorry for proper language knowledge mistakes there.

From this sec it is open source project for ever!

We will supply here all our practically tested information with video and photo proves free for any kind of charge for it!
Hope forum administration will find a way to stop any kind of patenting formal works in this space of inventions based on information that will be suppled here by us or anybody else!
We need to know that people are happy, nothing else!

base info about implemented math but in Russian, please find its English.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%87%D1%87%D0%B8

I am using this old Italian math in models when I need to create new planes - it is proved old math type!Planes are perfectly fly!
That is why we found that Roobert33 as Italian man pretty conservative man and dont want to share his info to people!
Ok no problem - we will create this motor from zero info as I said in my old posts, but already based on other Italian, USA & Armenian brilliant mathematics formula and info!

Truly
Rob

Scorch · « **Reply #595 on:** November 20, 2011, 04:32:15 AM »

I managed to get a little more accomplished this weekend.

I decided to try a different approach with the rotor by substantially increasing the spacing to 20mm centers (10mm spaces).
This because the previous rotor had the poles so close together, combined with a very stretched out, long, V, confined to the 2" width of the rotor, the stator magnet simply was not attracting the next pole and I couldn't even get a partial rotation from it.

I JUST finished assembly and will give it at least a day for the adhesive to set, before I can mount and balance, so it may be another week before I have anything to report.
If this fails to prove even a partial rotation, then the next steps would be a wider rotor with a better angle V, and longer stator magnet, and/or the introduction of magnets in place of ferrites.
Which I do have on order, in the form of 3/8"Diameter x 1/4"Thick ceramic disks from Edmond Scientific at only 7.95 USD for 100 disks.

Sure wish I could find a 1/4"W x 1/4"T x 3"L neodymium bar magnet!
Otherwise I have to use a 1/2"W x 1/4"T x 3" magnet, which I do have on the shelf, but it weighs twice as much. . .

}:>

Arrow · « **Reply #596 on:** November 20, 2011, 10:28:57 AM »

Quote from: Scorch on November 20, 2011, 04:32:15 AM

I managed to get a little more accomplished this weekend.

Sure wish I could find a 1/4"W x 1/4"T x 3"L neodymium bar magnet!
Otherwise I have to use a 1/2"W x 1/4"T x 3" magnet, which I do have on the shelf, but it weighs twice as much. . .

}:>

Dear Scorch
your V-gate is very interesting direction of development as far it is on pure ferrites.
Are you able to find time at next weekend and make flat gate as we have done?
If you have foam, you cam make holes on it , put the sticks on foam full depth and on the bottom of that submerged sticks you can have your bar magnet on 4 wheels like we have done.
If you will get result here the you can get result in round object such as rotor.
For bar magnet I can recommend this one:
http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=81
But I am not sure about right wideness as far I cant imagine the poles around of ferrites. see pic to understand what I mean
http://s58.radikal.ru/i160/1111/65/6784d7eaa2dd.jpg

Our working bar magnet have twice width to 2 magnets space on gate and we can guess that its need improvements, tests to find right dependence of bar magnet width length and total step distance of 2 magnets. It is like here http://s58.radikal.ru/i159/1111/dc/01b0c0234610.jpg

What is your gate total angle?
Truly
Rob

Scorch · « **Reply #597 on:** November 20, 2011, 07:13:59 PM »

I am very tempted to make a flat gate just to learn more about these angles and what might work best for ferrites.

I can already see that its still not right on this rotor and still not able to accomplish even a partial rotation by holding magnet in hand.
Even a larger magnet is not working. Can't get it to attract to the next pole regardless of what angle I hold the bar magnet including the stronger, 3", bar.
The more I play with this the more I want to try replacing the ferrites with magnets.

And I am just not familiar enough with all the intricacies involving angles and field shapes but it's pretty clear this angle is still too shallow and need a much wider rotor for this size ferrites.
Not sure what you mean by "total angle". The angle on this is only about three degrees. (See attached)

I am curious what the result might be if the pole pieces of the rotor were actually "U" shapes which might result in carrying the 'incoming' magnetic force into the other leg of the pole.
If you approach one leg of a "U" shaped iron core with the north side of a magnet does this mean the other leg will become north pole and will have a momentary effect of repelling then attracting the incoming magnet as it passes by? Would this help us get past "sticky spots"? Or; am I way off course without instruments?

}:>

Quote from: Arrow on November 20, 2011, 10:28:57 AM

Dear Scorch
your V-gate is very interesting direction of development as far it is on pure ferrites.
Are you able to find time at next weekend and make flat gate as we have done?
If you have foam, you cam make holes on it , put the sticks on foam full depth and on the bottom of that submerged sticks you can have your bar magnet on 4 wheels like we have done.
If you will get result here the you can get result in round object such as rotor.
For bar magnet I can recommend this one:
http://apexmagnets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=81
But I am not sure about right wideness as far I cant imagine the poles around of ferrites. see pic to understand what I mean
http://s58.radikal.ru/i160/1111/65/6784d7eaa2dd.jpg

Our working bar magnet have twice width to 2 magnets space on gate and we can guess that its need improvements, tests to find right dependence of bar magnet width length and total step distance of 2 magnets. It is like here http://s58.radikal.ru/i159/1111/dc/01b0c0234610.jpg

What is your gate total angle?
Truly
Rob

Arrow · « **Reply #598 on:** November 20, 2011, 11:41:28 PM »

Quote from: Scorch on November 20, 2011, 07:13:59 PM

I am very tempted to make a flat gate just to learn more about these angles and what might work best for ferrites.

I can already see that its still not right on this rotor and still not able to accomplish even a partial rotation by holding magnet in hand.
Even a larger magnet is not working. Can't get it to attract to the next pole regardless of what angle I hold the bar magnet including the stronger, 3", bar.
The more I play with this the more I want to try replacing the ferrites with magnets.

And I am just not familiar enough with all the intricacies involving angles and field shapes but it's pretty clear this angle is still too shallow and need a much wider rotor for this size ferrites.
Not sure what you mean by "total angle". The angle on this is only about three degrees. (See attached)

I am curious what the result might be if the pole pieces of the rotor were actually "U" shapes which might result in carrying the 'incoming' magnetic force into the other leg of the pole.
If you approach one leg of a "U" shaped iron core with the north side of a magnet does this mean the other leg will become north pole and will have a momentary effect of repelling then attracting the incoming magnet as it passes by? Would this help us get past "sticky spots"? Or; am I way off course without instruments?

}:>

Dear Scorch hi

"U" shapes is absolutely from different "opera music" phenomenon. I am not able to recommend you anything that is not tested by me or us.
Do you remember this? http://s017.radikal.ru/i420/1111/0e/70484e06b7f4.jpg
here is the Cad model in DXF and PDF
http://depositfiles.com/files/he60k566s
try to do flat gate - extremely good field to test any such phenomenon and then to put it in circle shape if working.
Dont loose your weekends. Find running rotor or gate and then go back to ferrites.This is the way how I will go my job in this project
Ferrites is very interesting field but they dont have more attracting power than magnets, theory "running" around Ferrites differently than for magnets. It is waiting huge magnetic field to accomplish it own and that last accomplishment not such powerfull than if magnets will be instead of Ferrites. (ÐšÐŸÐ” Ð¾Ñ‡ÐµÐ½ÑŒ Ð½Ð¸Ð·ÐºÐ¸Ð¹ Ð² Ñ‚Ð°ÐºÐ¾Ð¼ Ñ€ÐµÐ¶Ð¸Ð¼Ðµ Ñ€Ð°Ð±Ð¾Ñ‚Ñ‹) an output-input ratio is subzero!Ferrites will not work alone without magnets, they are good staff to shift magnetic field of nearby magnet!I dont know how to say ( explane) that exactly in English, sorry:( Ferrites are very good when there is electricity creating magnetic poles around them.

Truly
Rob

mdlarouche · « **Reply #599 on:** November 25, 2011, 02:50:51 AM »

I'd be willing to bet a working magnet motor is as simple as one lever and "two screws"...

a configuration the same as two screws... not two actual screws...

and of course the magnets.

If anyone already has one working they might know where I'm coming from.

Tell you more later!

News:

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