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Author Topic: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33  (Read 495895 times)

Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #510 on: October 26, 2011, 05:37:49 PM »
No free lunch here....
Thanks a lot for kind answer, that was all what I had looking from you because I did not understand English expression used by you :)

Take My deep apologies to you Sir!

Are you able to help me with the following info below from my post?

<I am interesting about that and want to know if anyone here measured by digital gauss meters degradations speed in 1 year of such systems? What is the results? I am sure US Patents 4151431 working from 79 year, there must be results. Very interesting to know such information  to calculate such motors life time to next magnet change time when degradations will rise to 20% level.

Grate thanks in advance for future information!>

Truly
Rob



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Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #511 on: October 27, 2011, 04:23:34 PM »
Well, made such simple "instrument" to measure magnet degradation in 1 year. Next video frame after 3 months.
Magnets 1mm x 10mm. Natural, static gravity "presure" on N to N poles is 13gr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNceej2q7-4

Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #512 on: October 30, 2011, 09:22:08 AM »
Grate thanks to Roobert33 for free detailed video.

I made video reverse reconstruction in AutoCad and got approx. size of device in DXF format

here is the link to file if someone have interest to copy it.

http://depositfiles.com/files/smkg4cgxr

Truly
Rob

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #512 on: October 30, 2011, 09:22:08 AM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #513 on: October 30, 2011, 06:09:29 PM »
Thank you for the scale analysis drawing.

Are these numbers in millimeters?
Assuming these numbers are in millimeters, and my eyeballs are properly calibrated, I think the scale may be a little off.

I believe the bar magnet, on top, is probably an off-the-shelf 2"L X 1/4" X 1/4" bar magnet.
And the rotor width is somewhere between 2" - 2.5" with a diameter around 4".
But this drawing shows a rotor width over 3.5" and diameter over 6" and a base plate over 13" diameter.

I also believe the upright supports are probably around 1/2" - 5/8", the feet, on the bottom of the base plate, are probably 1/2" or 3/4" disks, the spring is out of a pen at around 3/16" and the moving, wood, dowel is around 1/4" diameter.

You might want to try scaling his hand as compared to an average male hand and see what you come up with.
My index finger is about 80mm and my thumbnail is about 18mm.
And, in this image, his thumbnail is about the same width as the uprights.

Also: I have noticed in the video, and in this CAD drawing, that the "trigger" magnet, at the bottom, appears to be a pair of magnets.
This might be a pair of magnets with opposing fields forced together to create a narrow "focused" north, or south, field.
Or maybe some other paired configuration to create a field at a right angle or some such thing.

This could very well be the key to a successful replication as it may be necessary to have a focused, 'pinpoint' field for proper timing of this magnetic 'switch' at exactly the right point of the ferrite, V track, rotation.

}:>


Grate thanks to Roobert33 for free detailed video.

I made video reverse reconstruction in AutoCad and got approx. size of device in DXF format

here is the link to file if someone have interest to copy it.

http://depositfiles.com/files/smkg4cgxr

Truly
Rob

Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #514 on: October 30, 2011, 09:04:06 PM »
Thank you for the scale analysis drawing.

Are these numbers in millimeters?

Yes, in mm . Base object for scaling for me was the magnets on dram-rotor. As for me they are 1/2inch(12.7mm)
And So on..
Tolerance of this drawing by my calculation about +/-2-2.5mm as far as camera was under the angel which is not known Sir.So, if you are not agree with scale then count your own and build your scaled magnet motor:) No problem:)
my calculations show me that (dram) rotor D=145mm(5.708661")

Also: I have noticed in the video, and in this CAD drawing, that the "trigger" magnet, at the bottom, appears to be a pair of magnets.
This might be a pair of magnets with opposing fields forced together to create a narrow "focused" north, or south, field.
Or maybe some other paired configuration to create a field at a right angle or some such thing.

}:>
Very good and right observation, there are 2 magnets.Here I want to go very easy with logic of field - if we have good pushing/drugging force on the top with magnet that have 90 degree rotation to dram magnets poles, then the bottom one shall be and have the same orientation and add force moment at the its relevant time tic to dram magnet V-gate field.Sorry for my English. Magnets below doubled to make field more wide....(very good mech. ballansed solution from Roobert33!) they are short to reduce the moment mech resistant to push them up and not loose to much inertion energy... It will be more easy to communicate for me in Russia and explane  tech staff that I can see in this good model of motor.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 10:35:55 PM by Arrow »

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #514 on: October 30, 2011, 09:04:06 PM »
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Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #515 on: October 30, 2011, 09:15:44 PM »
Thank you for the scale analysis drawing.

And the rotor width is somewhere between 2" - 2.5" with a diameter around 4".

You might want to try scaling his hand as compared to an average male hand and see what you come up with.
My index finger is about 80mm and my thumbnail is about 18mm.

:) Please, count motor scale by using with more technical staff as parts on the motor, Human body "parts" can no be the scaling basepoint if you dont know man personally and very close:)
Sorry Sir, human body can be small and/or large because of diffrent genetics :)
You are kindly asked to stop discussion about drawing scale, because only 1 man on the world can judge this scale true or not true  and it is Mr.Roobert33.Are we able to call him to this topic? Guess - NO:( I still counting that my drawing in the relevant - good scale to built such motor and run it.Mean time I am busy with this project very seriously to reproduce motor based on my drawings. Video materials about results will be shared here. I am 50, and dont have time to make mistakes:) Busy with motor construction already 10 years, and about 36 years in model aircraft construction from strech photo pictures.This motor will become good charger for my electric avia modles LiPo, LiFe ets batts at the field and mountains.
Thanks for your post, opinion and time. I really appreciate you, because you are recalling my English.
TO: Mr.Roobert33,
if you are reading this post - You Are VERY MUCH Brilliant Engineer Sir! It was grate to see your motor as the result of your many years research! Thank you Sir for such GIFT to PEOPLE of ARMENIA and to world to make it GREEN!
As the RC pilot I want to see in the air nature Eagles flying free in clean AIR!

Truly,
Rob
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 10:22:01 PM by Arrow »

Offline Scorch

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #516 on: November 03, 2011, 12:33:44 AM »
Just thought I would go ahead and post a couple images of my progress. (see attached)

After careful review of the original video I found that there are ONLY two objects in the picture.
#1 The motor.
#2 The hand.
So without a good, reliable, reference such as a ruler or another object of known size such as a coin, I made the assumption the hand is just an "average" male hand.
And, also, just based on my own experience of over 40 years of working with hardware and parts and wood in my own hands, I got a pretty good impression of the scale of this thing just from watching the video a few times.

SO, I took a stab at it and made a size assumption on a couple of the parts.
The rest fell into place from there.

I also assumed this device was mostly made of off-the-shelf materials so I just went to the hardware store and found stuff that fits and ordered common magnets and ferrites. (Still waiting for ferrites) It does appear the ferrites used in the original video were special order, plated, ferrites of unknown formula.

Parts list that I have so far:

(1) 7" diameter, .250" thick acrylic disk.
(6) 1" stick on feet.
(2) .500" X .250" X .250" neodymium "switch" magnets.
(1) 2" X .250" X .250" neodymium "stator" magnet.
(1) .625" X .625" X 8" hardwood support.
(1) .625" X .625" X 7" hardwood support.
(1) .3125 wood dowel cut and fastened to make "L" shape.
(1) Return spring from Pilot G-2 pen.
(3) .250" ID X .625" OD ball bearings.
(1) .250" stainless steel all thread shaft. (Cut to fit)
(4) .250" stainless nuts.
(2) .250 stainless washers.
(3) wood screws.
(1) 4" diameter X 2" wide aluminum drum / rotor. (air intake pipe for diesel engine)
(1) .250" thick X 4" diameter wood disk. (rotor hub)

This is just a quick mock-up that I threw together this afternoon.

My upright supports are a little to tall, still need to fabricate a rocker for the lower magnet, many things will need to be squared up and adjusted, I am still waiting for parts, and my finished product may actually be all acrylic.

That is all for now.

}:>
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 01:50:50 AM by Scorch »

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #516 on: November 03, 2011, 12:33:44 AM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #517 on: November 03, 2011, 01:37:41 AM »
:) Please, count motor scale by using with more technical staff as parts on the motor, Human body "parts" can no be the scaling basepoint if you dont know man personally and very close:)

This is true but; when that is the ONLY reference object next to the motor, in the video, what else are you going to use?

Sorry Sir, human body can be small and/or large because of diffrent genetics :)


You are kindly asked to stop discussion about drawing scale, because only 1 man on the world can judge this scale true or not true  and it is Mr.Roobert33.Are we able to call him to this topic? Guess - NO:(

Actually, yes, his Texas phone number is on his http://www.callowayengines.com/ web site.
But its my understanding he sold the design, therefore a contract exists, which likely contains a non-disclosure agreement and I do respect this and will not bother him.


Busy with motor construction already 10 years, and about 36 years in model aircraft construction from strech photo pictures.

Truly,
Rob

Thats pretty cool.
My own formal training is Airframe & Powerplant, in 1981, at Colorado Aero tech.
I am fully trained qualified to work on the real thing.   8)

}:>


Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #518 on: November 03, 2011, 02:18:25 AM »
Actually, yes, his Texas phone number is on his http://www.callowayengines.com/ web site.

Thats pretty cool.
My own formal training is Airframe & Powerplant, in 1981, at Colorado Aero tech.

[/b]

Actually it is grate pleasure  to know and find colleagues here.
Thanks for your remarks, and motor owner tel. If it is still on, I will try to call him personally and ask some questions, hope he will answer to call.
Well, You have better design scale, guess it will be faster in RPM
Thanks for detailed explanation of your design. I really appreciate it! Very good job!

http://s017.radikal.ru/i440/1111/a9/da65f2c6d8d0.jpg

How you are going to get power from motor? high voltage static energy to capacitors or simple impulse coils with capacitors to discharge them to batts?Are you able to share that or I am asking too much Sir?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 03:03:42 AM by Arrow »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #518 on: November 03, 2011, 02:18:25 AM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #519 on: November 03, 2011, 02:39:54 AM »

I do believe Robert's rotor is a slightly larger diameter than my 4" rotor.
His is probably somewhere between 4.250" to 4.750" diameter maybe even 5.00".
But I have lots of stuff laying around that is right at 4.00" including clear, acrylic, tube so that's what I am going with.  :)

Don't know about RPM.
This is probably dictated by the strength of the attracting (stator) magnet.
Some say a PM motor should have a run-away RPM.
I believe this toy is limited by air friction and other losses and RPM can also be controlled by timing of the mechanical switching in a more efficient device.

I do not expect to do much work with this demonstration toy; IF I can get it to run at all.

}:>



Actually it is grate pleasure  to know and find colleagues here.
Thanks for your remarks, and motor owner tel. If it is still on, I will try to call him personally and ask some questions, hope he will answer to call.
Well, You have better design scale, guess it will be faster in RPM
Thanks for detailed explanation of your design. I really appreciate it!

How you are going to get power from motor? high voltage static energy to capacitors or simple impulse coils with capacitors to discharge them to batts?Are you able to share that or I am asking too much Sir?

Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #520 on: November 03, 2011, 03:15:07 AM »

IF I can get it to run at all.


I did not understand why Robert need ferrits to glue magnets to brass round plate...I am able to shape magnets relevantly to get good Radius by diamond dry disk on the bottom, but sure Robert also had such tools. It is big and only question for me, moreover I can not see any ferrits  on this motor design absolutely...
may be my English is too weak to understand what he is advising but I really do not understand this sentence:
I think I am getting old and already became the blind man:(

<Another important issue is that the rotor wheel is not made or covered with magnets. It is made with ferrite pieces. Ferrite is strongly attracted to magnets. You can't glue opposing neo magnets that close together in a line without them flying all over the place.>

and one more thing dear Scorch, in my drawing you can see exact shape of motor camshaft, I think , if you are able to scale it and copy to paper to get it on PVC then your motor will work as it is in the movie.It is very important part with its shape!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 03:42:24 AM by Arrow »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #520 on: November 03, 2011, 03:15:07 AM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #521 on: November 03, 2011, 08:14:59 PM »

The brass drum / rotor does not have any magnets on it.
What looks like magnets on the rotor are merely nickel plated ferrite rods that LOOK like neodymium magnets.

The ferrite rods I am going to use are off the shelf 10mm X 20mm ferrite rods from newark.
See:  http://www.newark.com/ferroxcube/rod10-20-4b1/ferrite-rod-20x10mm/dp/63R5820
They are grey in color (not nickel plated) and a little longer than I would like to use; but is the only thing I could find "off-the-shelf", on the Internet, without special order.
And maybe the longer length will help make up for my slightly smaller rotor.

The ONLY magnets in this system are:
#1 Stator magnet on top.
#2 Trigger magnet on bottom.

It is a simple attraction system with two magnets attracting a ferrous V track towards them.
The top stator is a variable position magnet sitting on a spring that can also be lifted away from the track as needed.
The bottom trigger is a fixed position, "on-off", magnet only used for a split second at the right time.

The stator magnet on top is attracting the wider part of the V shaped "track" towards it.
The CHALLENGE is to lift the stator magnet away from the from the track at just the right point so it does not attract back, in the wrong the direction, resulting in a locked rotor.

There is also another magnet on the bottom also operating to attract at exactly the right point to keep the rotation turning.

There are many demonstrations of a V-track on the internet such as this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2aZ3llqok
Which uses magnets in both the track and the car BUT I suspect the same motion may be accomplished with magnets on just the car and iron rods, or ferrites, in the track.

There is also a brass weight in the rotor.
I do not know the significance of this brass weight.
Was it used merely to balance the rotor?
Or is it used to UN-balance the rotor and provide a "gravity assist" at a certain point of rotation?
If so; I would suspect this is only in play to get the motor to self start.
And once running centrifugal force will override gravitational force.

The questions I would have for Robert are:

-Is the brass weight for balance or gravity assist?

-Is the paired magnet at the bottom configured with same poles pushed together to create a narrow beam of magnetic force?

-Which direction are the magnetic poles facing?
IE: North up, North down, North towards direction of rotation or away from direction of rotation.

-And is the same true for both the stator and the trigger or are they different?

This may take a lot of experimentation to find these answers.
I will start with just North of both magnets, facing rotor, before trying anything unusual such as a focused beam which can be quite a challenge to force same poles together of a pair of neodymium magnets then attach them to a brass plate without them flying apart. . .

I like to believe this will not be necessary and he merely used two magnets because that's what he had on hand.
And a single .500"W X .500"D X .250T magnet will work just as well because all it has to do is attract at the right time.

It is my firm belief this motor video is not fake and this can be replicated.
If you can make a repeated "V" pattern track that will carry a car along it's entire length (see youtube) then you can ALSO make a spinning rotor with the right kind of magnetic commutation (switching) of a single "V".

}:>





I did not understand why Robert need ferrits to glue magnets to brass round plate...I am able to shape magnets relevantly to get good Radius by diamond dry disk on the bottom, but sure Robert also had such tools. It is big and only question for me, moreover I can not see any ferrits  on this motor design absolutely...
may be my English is too weak to understand what he is advising but I really do not understand this sentence:
I think I am getting old and already became the blind man:(

<Another important issue is that the rotor wheel is not made or covered with magnets. It is made with ferrite pieces. Ferrite is strongly attracted to magnets. You can't glue opposing neo magnets that close together in a line without them flying all over the place.>

and one more thing dear Scorch, in my drawing you can see exact shape of motor camshaft, I think , if you are able to scale it and copy to paper to get it on PVC then your motor will work as it is in the movie.It is very important part with its shape!

Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #522 on: November 03, 2011, 10:32:04 PM »
Hi dear Scorch, please find my step by step answers below to you post.

The brass drum / rotor does not have any magnets on it.
What looks like magnets on the rotor are merely nickel plated ferrite rods that LOOK like neodymium magnets.
OK thanks, now I understand but , sorry, as far as I am going to get power from dram I need to use Neo magnets at the both sides to have more torque. see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCr3lOhMJCg and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIEJ0vMnhjg and my first try from HDD magnets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlsLBikVerE - it is my inexpencive testbase. I am "playing" with this rotor everyday:) It is from the EPP foam. I made it on my own construcrted Foam CNC hardware in 2 min:) I am going to upload new video to my channel MrArrow1961 soon. So, you will be keepposted if come to my Tube sometime..there is my videos about my own used technologies, RC fligths, my Cad software research and results, lot of learning materials about CNC ,Rhino cad's etc. Thanks for watching Sir!
The ferrite rods I am going to use are off the shelf 10mm X 20mm ferrite rods from newark.
See:  http://www.newark.com/ferroxcube/rod10-20-4b1/ferrite-rod-20x10mm/dp/63R5820
They are grey in color (not nickel plated) and a little longer than I would like to use; but is the only thing I could find "off-the-shelf", on the Internet, without special order.
And maybe the longer length will help make up for my slightly smaller rotor.
OK, understand, thanks for information about the ferrite nesting place:)
Ferrites that are not plated with Nickel will not work in magnetic field effectively based on the known  causes – magnet will pull more effectively if it has in front of it more ferromagnetic metals such as iron, nickel etc. 
The ONLY magnets in this system are:
#1 Stator magnet on top.
#2 Trigger magnet on bottom.
OK
It is a simple attraction system with two magnets attracting a ferrous V track towards them.
The top stator is a variable position magnet sitting on a spring that can also be lifted away from the track as needed.
The bottom trigger is a fixed position, "on-off", magnet only used for a split second at the right time.
This ferrites( if I will find nickel plated once)  I will check up at the next project of mine, not at this time
The stator magnet on top is attracting the wider part of the V shaped "track" towards it.
The CHALLENGE is to lift the stator magnet away from the from the track at just the right point so it does not attract back, in the wrong the direction, resulting in a locked rotor.
Yes agree.
There is also another magnet on the bottom also operating to attract at exactly the right point to keep the rotation turning.
Yes agree
There are many demonstrations of a V-track on the internet such as this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2aZ3llqok
Which uses magnets in both the track and the car BUT I suspect the same motion may be accomplished with magnets on just the car and iron rods, or ferrites, in the track.
This video is very good demonstration how magnet-magnet V-gate is working. Same effect we have in Roobert33 motor, but less powerful I guess as fаr as we will not have there 2 side V-Gате magnet energy sum, that is my firm belief based on my own experiments with V-gate shape installed magnets and clear, non magnetic ferrites.
There is also a brass weight in the rotor.
I do not know the significance of this brass weight.
1.Was it used merely to balance the rotor?
2.Or is it used to UN-balance the rotor and provide a "gravity assist" at a certain point of rotation?
If so; I would suspect this is only in play to get the motor to self start.
And once running centrifugal force will override gravitational force.
The questions I would have for Robert are:
3 -Is the brass weight for balance or gravity assist?
4 -Is the paired magnet at the bottom configured with same poles pushed together to create a narrow beam of magnetic force?
5 -Which direction are the magnetic poles facing?
IE: North up, North down, North towards direction of rotation or away from direction of rotation.
6-And is the same true for both the stator and the trigger or are they different?
I put numbers on your question to simplify my answers if you don’t mind Sir:)
1)- My opinion - it is just nice and simple material that was used by Rob33, it is adding weight and nothing doing with mechanical or magnet field balancing.
2) see my opinion above at 1) answer
3) My opinion - If you mean brass short finger insertion into the ply of dram wall, then this is mechanical balancing to get first small moment to pass every time  dram it self like “flywheel”  dead point.
This is most difficult part to find exact place (point) to put it in every new dram like that.
4) each magnet line of at V structure has same pole e.g. let say left side N pole on the top and right side S pole on the top. When you will try to install them from Neo you will get force that will arrest your movements and exact targeting of magnets at their place. So be prepared to stand against of that confrontation force as far as by my calculations gap between the magnets only 2mm for D= ½” magnets. If you are going to use smaller magnets then reduce that gap to minimum to get approx solid magnet line from all magnets. As minimum gap between magnets that less subsidence of polelines between them.
5) see my answer above at point 4)
6) About top magnet - dram North side magnets has to see above same pole – North and dram South V-gate line has to see above same pole – South
About bottom magnet – I am not sure, need to construct my dram to check it, but to run a few steps forward I will copy the same position for bottom magnets to dram as the top one.
This may take a lot of experimentation to find these answers.
I will start with just North of both magnets, facing rotor, before trying anything unusual such as a focused beam which can be quite a challenge to force same poles together of a pair of neodymium magnets then attach them to a brass plate without them flying apart. . .
Not agree:) I made it, its working as I said above, try to use may experience, guess and hope you will become happy to see easy result just with 1 bullet shoot:)
I like to believe this will not be necessary and he merely used two magnets because that's what he had on hand.
And a single .500"W X .500"D X .250T magnet will work just as well because all it has to do is attract at the right time.
Agree, just all magnets or ferrites  has to have sharp same height and other dimensions. Height is most critical staff. Take a note.
It is my firm belief this motor video is not fake and this can be replicated.
If you can make a repeated "V" pattern track that will carry a car along it's entire length (see youtube) then you can ALSO make a spinning rotor with the right kind of magnetic commutation (switching) of a single "V".
Well, dear Scorch, V-gate principle IS WORKING, believe me, I am not bad and alive Armenian engineer with old "Soviet" wide knowledge base:)
Thanks for your information and help to me, I really appreciate to communicate with you and be effective and helpful for your project as well with my shared information. Shared info coming only from my own experience, no advertisements , no tricks, not an idea – just from practical working experiments.

Hope my post and answers will not disappoint by its content Mr. Robert H. Calloway. This long lasting post was only my tech opinon and I love to know if it will be loved by my namesake - Genius Engineer from Texas Mr. Robert H. Calloway

P.S. If only nickel plated ferrites on dram working with up and down magnets at motor it means for me that Genius Engineer from Texas Mr. Robert H. Calloway show his tuff middle finger up to any fundomental knowledge base man in the all over the World! Thanks Rob!


Truly
Rob
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 11:44:51 PM by Arrow »

Offline roobert33

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #523 on: November 04, 2011, 07:26:40 PM »
Roobert33 isn't  "Mr.Robert H. Calloway"

Offline Arrow

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #524 on: November 05, 2011, 12:57:04 AM »
Roobert33 isn't  "Mr.Robert H. Calloway"
Hi dear Rob, is this your motor we are discussing here? if yes I am completely confused because this is your first post here from November 17, 2010, 11:47:43 AM »Sir.Probably you were too busy, dont you? If you the owner of the motor are you able to share with us details or this is already closed confidential issue?

 

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