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Author Topic: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33  (Read 567092 times)

lumen

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #345 on: December 30, 2010, 07:58:34 PM »
Hi Lumen,

That is exactly what I believe, watching Laurent's video of him doing it by hand he shows different magnets but his hand is still taking the same path to get rotation. I proposed a fixed deformed cylinder which would have the same path that your hand makes as you pull away from the gate. It would be inverse though as a external wheel will rotate around the fixed center track. You would have more magnets that are getting pulled along the track then those that are being pushed through the gate. This offset of force might be enough to get it to get past gate without relying on external mechanics.

That's correct! Except you don't need to taper in the leading edge of the rotor. The higher leading edge causes a greater attraction and is pulled in.


DreamThinkBuild

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #346 on: December 30, 2010, 08:25:07 PM »

Quote
That's correct! Except you don't need to taper in the leading edge of the rotor. The higher leading edge causes a greater attraction and is pulled in.

I see, that could give you 9 magnets pushing only 3 through the gate, a much better ratio.

synchro1

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #347 on: December 30, 2010, 10:18:10 PM »
@Clanzer,

Why not try use a pendulum and matching force magnet in attraction to help raise the stator, coupled with a strong spring? The "Hatem magnetic cogging effect", the power generated by two magnets in attraction that pass by sheering, may help power both the spinner and the pendulum. The magents want to chase each other as they sheer apart, and this force helps propel the rotation. A diametric tube stator that can roll freely, may help. Everyone's seen the rolling steel ball magnets and pendulums in perpetual motion already from Finsrud, so we know they're a winning combination.

Best regards,

Synchro
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 11:25:59 PM by synchro1 »

synchro1

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #348 on: December 30, 2010, 10:27:23 PM »
Well, @Roobert33's only has one cam. Wonder what the role of the bottom lever is? Also, it seems to me the drum and especially the bar that goes across it (the stator) are too heavy.

That bottem lever looks to me like part of a spring for the stator gate. The spring looks like simply a strong piece of wire that's bent and held down on one end over a fulcrum.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 10:54:00 PM by synchro1 »

bastonia

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #349 on: December 31, 2010, 12:37:58 AM »
After reading this entire thread and reviewing the video, I am as always, not surprised at the low observation level.

1) The whole point of this design is breaking the sticky point.
2) This accomplished by:
    a) "The Spring" attached to the cam shaft and the metal disc attached to the base.
    b) "The Cam" which the has a downward slop for the spring to pull against and create forward force.
    c) "The Magnet Lever" at the base , 180' degrees to the top Cam hits to add additional momentum.
3) All the suggested solutions do not take any of these objectives into account.
4) Clanzer model has too much friction and cam accuracy to even come close, not to mention the spring.

I wish I had the time and resources to build an actual reproduction, but until I see something that is actually close... I will continue to believe this model has some merit.

Cheers All, happy hunting.

Omnibus

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #350 on: December 31, 2010, 12:47:19 AM »
@bastonia,

As far as I can see, the role of the spring is to position the height of the stator magnet just right when in down position. It's true the spring has a role as everything else does -- the shape and position of the cam, the overall balance to avoid gravity effect, the bottom lever w/ magnet etc. All these are essential in the final tuning and one has to be really patient in doing it. I'll have some more concrete input soon because, as I already mentioned, I have to redo the whole thing when I came back home in the US. Today I received the axis from the machinist and in a few days I'll be moving to Massachusetts for a while to do some more work on this and other devices.

ramset

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #351 on: December 31, 2010, 03:04:24 AM »
Omni
This is Robert Calloway

http://www.callowayengines.com/index.htm

This is the man that we spoke to ,he is the man that said it works,he is also the guy Sterling thinks is Roberto33.

Clanzer should start to correspond with this man ,he's a cool guy
,but he doesn't like Sterling anymore![according to Sterling]
Robert has a new design that Clanzer should get the heads up on.
Chet

Omnibus

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #352 on: December 31, 2010, 04:13:49 AM »
Omni
This is Robert Calloway

http://www.callowayengines.com/index.htm

This is the man that we spoke to ,he is the man that said it works,he is also the guy Sterling thinks is Roberto33.

Clanzer should start to correspond with this man ,he's a cool guy
,but he doesn't like Sterling anymore![according to Sterling]
Robert has a new design that Clanzer should get the heads up on.
Chet

Oh, I see. So Calloway is from Texas, right? Great. Well, I wonder why he wouldn't come up here in this forum. I forgot to ask him that. And, yea, I remember him saying that he is working on a new design. But why did he abandon the already working one? I think he said he doesn't feel it's practical enough and also he didn't feel he should go public with it. Anyway, it would be great if he decides to pop-up here and explain a thing or two about his working motor (@Roobert33 for sure isn't Calloway, though, because he told me he doesn't even know who that guy is).

synchro1

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #353 on: December 31, 2010, 04:27:41 AM »
Here's an idea: Two V track wheels spinning face to face with a more powerfull "Hattem Wedge" array on each one, opposite their stickey spots. The wedges would power past each other In attraction when the stickey spots were on each opposite side, and power past the two outside stators with the same V traction set to the inside of the wider V.

The 6 magnet wedges would accelerate each other by magnetic cogging while the opposite ends were in the stickey position at the twin stators on opposite ends of the wheels. The wedges would help exert V traction on the stators while passing on the other side. The wheels would need counter balanceing.

The twin V tracks may have a Hatem cogging effect of their own. A magnetic shield could be be positioned between the wheels with a window for the Hatem wedge only if the proximity hurt.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 05:00:21 AM by synchro1 »

tbird

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #354 on: December 31, 2010, 05:12:06 AM »
bastonia,

i think one of us is confussed.

CAM n. An eccentric or multiply curved wheel mounted on a rotating shaft, used to produce variable or reciprocating motion in another engaged or contacted part.

this doesn't fit your post

Quote
2) This accomplished by:
    a) "The Spring" attached to the cam shaft and the metal disc attached to the base.
    b) "The Cam" which the has a downward slop for the spring to pull against and create forward force.

i think what you are calling the cam shaft is what others would call the stator magnet lifter assy.  it looks like a couple of pieces of wooden dowel connected to make a right angle.  also the cam shaft is the same as the shaft that the drum with the rotor magnets is mounted on.

the one point i see you make that hasn't been brought out before is the shape of the cam itself.  the following edge descending , if there is spring tenion against the stator magnet lifter assy., would add to the drum rotation.  nice catch!

in my earlier post i suggested the spring was there to make the lifting load of the cam lighter.  now i wonder which would be the better asset.

i think stretching the spring with the cam would take more energy away (no net gain because you have to use energy from the cam to stretch it) than allowing the stator magnet lifter assy.'s weight to compress the spring (so it could lessen the load for the cam.  if assy. is 10 units and spring force is 9 units when compressed = 1 unit to lift assy.).

a small mod might help.  make the attachment of the spring to the base adjustable.  instead of a fixed point, use a threaded rod thru the base.  just a thought.

tom

roberval

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #355 on: December 31, 2010, 12:46:23 PM »
 have been reading this thread with great interest, there may be similarities to my design.

 when comparing, the best description about how rob 33's wheel could work, is due to a balance with the cam system.
 When starting the wheel its at the balance point (highest lobe) of the cam.
 At the starting point the cam receives a downwards force, which aids in driving the wheel, which increases as the bar slides down the lowest lobe of the cam, the lower gizmo has a similar affect, this would be repelling,

 not including friction, this should balance out, so the resistance should be the same as the output of the cam.
 think about engine overhead cams, takes force to pass the high point of the lobe, once past this point it then powers to the low point.
 
If the wheel can accelerate at a greater rate than the acceleration suplied by the cam device, there should be enough momentum to overcome the resistance of the cam.

 what I'm working on has a big difference, other devices can be used instead of magnets.
 the relationship between a cam + another device is important, the magnets supply a force, without needing the use of a v track e.t.c. as the attraction is not used the same way as a v-track for rotation.

markdansie

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #356 on: December 31, 2010, 01:27:11 PM »
@Roberval
many thanks..do you have a digram or a video...it makes sense
Mark

nievesoliveras

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #357 on: December 31, 2010, 03:07:05 PM »
What do you think about using four magnets driver to overcome one stcky spot?

Jesus

ramset

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #358 on: December 31, 2010, 03:34:46 PM »
Jesus,
I don't know about these things,however that
doesn't stop me from talking about them [only kidding]

When we spoke to Robert Calloway [Texas]
He said his new design would be/is four stators "rotating" INSIDE the stationary V gate.

Chet

nievesoliveras

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #359 on: December 31, 2010, 03:38:52 PM »
@ramset

Maybe his idea is better than mine. The goal is to get the problem solved.

Jesus