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Author Topic: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33  (Read 475214 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #270 on: December 02, 2010, 07:08:53 PM »
Omnibus... in my opinion you are on the wrong way if that is your model. About my prototype, wait just a little and you will see it. Everybody will see it.

The Observer... I dont want to be rude, but this is basic physics. Now, my question is... How do you plan to put some energy in your big radius device (and heavy)
in order to have some kinetic energy into the system. This is the challenge...
Weight isn't the problem. The problem is to gain more energy than you put in. Any heavy wheel will start to spin if friction isn't stopping it from running - IF there is excess energy which will accelerate the wheel. It only takes longer time for a given amount of energy to accelerate a heavy wheel versus a light one.

Vidar

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Offline marianpiti

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #271 on: December 02, 2010, 07:38:20 PM »
Hi Low...this was my point also... how he plan to put energy in the system in order to make it run, and keep running.
How about your project ? Do you have a solution regarding on what your magnets run and what will hold the turning component ?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #272 on: December 02, 2010, 07:47:41 PM »

While the part about the larger heavier wheel being able to store more energy is true, you left out the most important part of the equation, and that is it also takes a lot more energy to get it spinning in the first place.

Bill

Quite correct. I was just gonna say that. Great minds think alike.

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #272 on: December 02, 2010, 07:47:41 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #273 on: December 02, 2010, 07:59:58 PM »
You don't get out of the fact that the machine has to generate more energy
than it loses *per each of its cycles* or it will simply spin down over time.
A sufficient flywheel is required to lift the weight once and keep the mechanism
from slowing too much when it does.

---

If one could lift/drop the V-bar electronically with a solenoid, stepper motor or
servo motor based on the angle of the wheel. To optimize the wheel's acceleration
profile- if any. It then would be fairly easy to;

a) calculate how much energy is required to match a wheel's magnet acceleration
profile relative to RPM's. This can be done with a string wrapped around the axle
with a weight hanging over the table edge on a pulley.

b) calculate how much energy is required to lift the V-bar. Using it's weight, gravity
constant and lifting distance, assuming one is going to throw this energy away.

With these two pieces of information one could see at a glance whether to go ahead
and build the cam lift mechanism. The cam can try to recover some energy from the
V-bar drop or not, based in wheel rpm.

I'd feel a lot better at knowing analytically if one is generating sufficient energy
magnetically rather than just building something that may not work.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #274 on: December 02, 2010, 09:03:09 PM »
Congratulations @omnibus!

You are on the right track. The inventors minds are at work now.
I suggest adding a counterweight to the lifting piece that will go on the axle to have the needed momentum.

Jesus

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #274 on: December 02, 2010, 09:03:09 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #275 on: December 02, 2010, 09:08:22 PM »
Quote
I'd feel a lot better at knowing analytically if one is generating sufficient energy
magnetically rather than just building something that may not work.

I feel the same way but what you're proposing isn't an analytical solution but experiments more complex than just building the cam and trying it.

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #276 on: December 02, 2010, 09:24:07 PM »
Proposed cam addition of a counterweight.
It could be also a threaded bolt soldered to the washer and several heavy nuts and washers to find its sweet balanced spot.

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #276 on: December 02, 2010, 09:24:07 PM »
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Offline Magneticitist

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #277 on: December 02, 2010, 10:13:07 PM »
"1 week ago

I just got this message from Roobert33:

Roobert33 has sent you a message:

R: Re: robert

To:overunitydotcom

Yes, It was a joke that I should not do! I apologize to you and all your friends who have lost time in commenting on ....

The device had to operate the magnet inside a coil that I had in my shirt. Greeting, Robert"

lol get the f outta here. that explanation makes less sense, and i think i'd rather see someone actually do that rather than see a magnet motor. in his shirt?  under the table would have been more reasonable. hey Mylow i know youre watching this thread too its time to chime in


at first i thought the spring was the secret.. and it would degrade over time.. but looking again the timing is off, the spring does nothing but protect the top bar from damaging over time.. the key to his arrangement is the imbalance.. his rotor is clearly NOT balanced and he has set a heavy point in one spot, exactly where the 4 magnets line up rather than just two. also the plastic slider is weighted in the same spot.. this is genius because hes actually using gravity and the magnets at the same time.. you cant run a load in this setup if its large enough to mess up the "unbalance".
also anyone who has played with pulse motors religiously may have noticed that sometimes the wheel goes faster when you "cog" it in the right places.

it seems to me that i think Bruce or something mentioned the plastic thing being used to pass the hump and hes right, but its not just the magnets, its the initial momentum gained from the rotor wanting to fall in the right direction. the motion and cogging should be equal until you bring the extra momentum into the picture hes generating from the rotor imbalance.


then again theres the chance i should have read the whole thread and i missed something important


Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #278 on: December 02, 2010, 10:33:22 PM »
Now I understand the use of the magnet at the bottom.
When the unbalanced cam with its momentum hits the lever and raise the bottom magnet, the magnet repels or attracts as needed in order to get the cam into speed to overcome the colision with the roller at the top.

The unbalanced shaft then start again the journey after passing the top.
Then the key is a good unbalanced cam mechanism.

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #278 on: December 02, 2010, 10:33:22 PM »
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Offline marianpiti

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #279 on: December 02, 2010, 10:45:00 PM »
Longer the cam is, more work must be done in order to move. Think at disc break on the car...bigger is, less friction you need to break. Make it shorter...you need 2 cm up-down on magnet... shorter the arm is, less you spend. Make a 2 cm bump on the axis and an arm from top to the bump

Offline maw2432

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #280 on: December 03, 2010, 10:29:36 PM »
Longer the cam is, more work must be done in order to move. Think at disc break on the car...bigger is, less friction you need to break. Make it shorter...you need 2 cm up-down on magnet... shorter the arm is, less you spend. Make a 2 cm bump on the axis and an arm from top to the bump

You may have a point here.    I was thinking the pivot point was at the point where the cam was touching/pushing the rotatable bearing at the top of the robert33 device. (when the cam pushes the top magnet away.)   Thus would have had more leverage.     Sorry if this is not the case and miss-led anyone in there design replications.    I think leverage is really key to this working. 

The force applied (at end points of the lever) is proportional to the ratio of the length of the lever arm measured between the fulcrum (pivoting point) and application point of the force applied at each end of the lever.  (per Wikipedia)


I think we need some more comments on where the pivoting points are.


Bill

   
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 10:52:42 PM by maw2432 »

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #280 on: December 03, 2010, 10:29:36 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #281 on: December 05, 2010, 01:58:36 AM »
I am doing some work on a related project and even though the cam is important, it cannot work! All the work gained in pulling the magnets closer will always take the same work to pull them away again. If there was enough energy to push the attracting magnet away, then the rotor would already have enough energy to pull itself away.

The rotor only has two magnets, the two in the center of the start of the "V" track. The rest are steel. The bar stator magnet on top, is magnetized through the faces and not end to end. This is an entirely different type of operation.
Is this possible?

   

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #282 on: December 05, 2010, 03:08:32 AM »
@lumen

Use two small bar magnets on the same bar. One facing the north down and the other facing south down.

It is supposed that the weight of the cam starting at the top initiates the turning of the rotor.
The magnet activated at the bottom adds speed to the rotor and after lifting the bar the cam weight start the movement again.

Jesus

Offline Nihilanth

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #283 on: December 05, 2010, 03:10:50 PM »
I was planning on building one of these myself at some point, but right now I'm pretty lacking in materials & tools to work with, so hopefully one of you can try this yourselves.

I thought of using two bar magnets as a lever escapement so that as one magnet gets repelled from the 'speed bump' the magnet on other end of the lever gets pushed towards the v-gate, accelerating the rotor until it does the same. It wouldn't be physically touching the rotor of course, but hopefully you get the gist of the idea.

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: New permanent magnet motor on youtube from Roobert33
« Reply #284 on: December 05, 2010, 04:05:01 PM »
Nice idea!

Jesus

 

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