Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83907
  • *Latest: Vi

  • *Total Posts: 524044
  • *Total Topics: 15602
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 2
  • *Guests: 9
  • *Total: 11

Author Topic: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea  (Read 25230 times)

Offline FatChance!!!

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2010, 11:40:53 AM »
I'm so sorry that I was right in this....
When will we find the path to overunity....if ever?

I wish you the best of luck even though I sincerely believe you will find out
that you missed some important data in the simulation and there will be no OU.

I have done a terrible mistake by a mistake choosen wrong material for the outer gear.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2010, 11:40:53 AM »

Offline broli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2010, 11:41:21 AM »
This particular design has a problem. The steel pieces are busy with guiding the magnetic flux between the donut-magnets on the outside, and will therfor not have a magnetic flux that is looping from N to S on the outside - which is essential for affecting the cylindrical magnet on the top (and bottom). I tested a small linear model yesterday. I used a steel ball instead, but that does not change anything. It feels a sticky spot where the donut magnets are shifting polarity.

The interaction between the ferromaterial and magnetizing PM or EM is irrelevant. This interaction is completely symmetrical and thus cancels out.

Also the steel ball does not attract or repel the cylindrical stator  magnet on the top. It seems that the steel ball does not "see" the  cylindrical magnet at all.

I had different results. I used a cylindrical shape ferromaterial between ferrite magnets (with an air gap to allow movement). When I approached it with a neo I could either push the ferromaterial slightly or attract it when it clearly wanted to stay in the sticky spot. However there's a threshold, if you get too close the ferrite loses and the ferromaterial  will always attract to your approaching cylindrical magnet. It's subtle but it's there. That's why the engineering model has adjustable slots for the cylindrical magnet.

You shouldn't think too much about flux trapping. Because the ferromaterial essentially becomes a magnet, if you look at the coil design the ferromaterial will have maximum magnetization because it's positioned in the middle of the coils. Whereas the field of the outside magnet is so weak and dispersed it has little effect on the MAGNETIZATION aspect, but it will still interact with the ferromaterial if it was a magnet.

Offline Low-Q

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2838
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2010, 12:29:27 PM »
Here is the idea with the coil instead of a permanent magnet outer rotor. The coil are stationary winded like you see in the drawing. Axels to each rotor are able to exit through the windings. If this electromagnetic outer rotor have the same properstis as if it was a permanentmagnet, we have sucessfully made a "homopolar" motor and solved the problems with brushes, high current, low voltage, and low efficiency.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2010, 12:29:27 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Low-Q

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2838
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2010, 12:37:45 PM »
The interaction between the ferromaterial and magnetizing PM or EM is irrelevant. This interaction is completely symmetrical and thus cancels out.

I had different results. I used a cylindrical shape ferromaterial between ferrite magnets (with an air gap to allow movement). When I approached it with a neo I could either push the ferromaterial slightly or attract it when it clearly wanted to stay in the sticky spot. However there's a threshold, if you get too close the ferrite loses and the ferromaterial  will always attract to your approaching cylindrical magnet. It's subtle but it's there. That's why the engineering model has adjustable slots for the cylindrical magnet.

You shouldn't think too much about flux trapping. Because the ferromaterial essentially becomes a magnet, if you look at the coil design the ferromaterial will have maximum magnetization because it's positioned in the middle of the coils. Whereas the field of the outside magnet is so weak and dispersed it has little effect on the MAGNETIZATION aspect, but it will still interact with the ferromaterial if it was a magnet.
How can they cancel out when the steel poston at the top and the bottom are approaching the same scenario? I see that the polarity are opposite, but it is opposit in both the cylindrical magnet and the outer donut magnet, so the bottom steel cylinder will "see" the same forces as the one which is approaching the top. The sticky spots are rather adding up than cancelling out.

Vidar

Offline broli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2010, 01:13:18 PM »
How can they cancel out when the steel poston at the top and the bottom are approaching the same scenario? I see that the polarity are opposite, but it is opposit in both the cylindrical magnet and the outer donut magnet, so the bottom steel cylinder will "see" the same forces as the one which is approaching the top. The sticky spots are rather adding up than cancelling out.

Vidar

Why did you ignore the part after the steel leaves the sticky spot. Surely you would have seen this in your experiments. When you arrive at the pole switch there's your mentioned sticky spot but once you make it through the steel is pushed out of the sticky spot. So +repulsion -repulsion = 0. This is magnetics 101.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2010, 01:13:18 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Low-Q

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2838
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2010, 01:48:55 PM »
Why did you ignore the part after the steel leaves the sticky spot. Surely you would have seen this in your experiments. When you arrive at the pole switch there's your mentioned sticky spot but once you make it through the steel is pushed out of the sticky spot. So +repulsion -repulsion = 0. This is magnetics 101.
What I am concerned about is the strength of the sticky spot, for how long it lasts (The total energy required to pass through the sticky area) versus the energy provided by the attraction and repulsion before and after the sticky area. The attraction and the repulsion strength are also very weak not far from the cylindrical magnet. It is the average force over a total distance/revolution which is interesting, not peaks of great forces which lasts for a few millimeters.

Forces seem promesing if they are strong, but they also do not last for very long, which in turn do not provide much energy after all.

EDIT: My experiments did not show much of an attraction or repulsion before and after the sticky spot. In fact the steel ball feels a slight repulsion right before it enters the sticky spot. This is what i saw when experimenting with SMOTs. If the ball quite far from the enterance of the SMOT ramp, the steel ball was repelled away instead of being attracted. When the steel ball came too close, it finally was attracted to the ramp, and got "sucked in".

Vidar

Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2010, 08:34:15 PM »
@Broli
So far I haven't seen any real show stoppers explained at this point. I am concerned about your simplified design missing an important detail. With a stationary magnet placed at the switching point, the steel will only average out a new switching point and not perform any additional work. It will simply see the stationary magnet as a continuation of the switching magnet.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2010, 08:34:15 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline broli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2010, 08:46:38 PM »
@Broli
So far I haven't seen any real show stoppers explained at this point. I am concerned about your simplified design missing an important detail. With a stationary magnet placed at the switching point, the steel will only average out a new switching point and not perform any additional work. It will simply see the stationary magnet as a continuation of the switching magnet.

Hypothetically we can assume that the stat. magnet has no influence on the magnetic domains of the steel due its distance and the local stronger magnetizing field of the coil. However the steel should still act as a magnet and interact as one with the stat. magnet ie. push and pulling it. However lowq may be right when it comes to force magnitudes. Because this so called interaction really happens before and after the switch where the distance is still relatively big between these two. So any energy gain might be sucked up by losses of the system, most notably bearing losses.

I have decided to build this concept in a very professional way. And by also building my own magnetic bearings to rule out any doubt. I hope it can be completed before the end of December. Anyone is free to assist in the building plans, for instance by making cad drawings and build suggestions.

Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2010, 06:42:23 AM »
I wasn't going to post this in this thread, but because it works on the same principal, I thought it might shed some insight.

Basically the flexible rings separate as they pass into the magnetic field. As they separate, they press on the rollers and achieve forward angular force which rotates the rotor. Because the rotor never moves into or out of the field, the main drag is domain stiction and eddy currents at high rpm. Both of these can be virtually eliminated with the correct ring material.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2010, 06:42:23 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Low-Q

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2838
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2010, 08:50:17 PM »
I wasn't going to post this in this thread, but because it works on the same principal, I thought it might shed some insight.

Basically the flexible rings separate as they pass into the magnetic field. As they separate, they press on the rollers and achieve forward angular force which rotates the rotor. Because the rotor never moves into or out of the field, the main drag is domain stiction and eddy currents at high rpm. Both of these can be virtually eliminated with the correct ring material.
I wish it was that easy. I have posted a thread a few days ago with a similar idea here:http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10029.0
Mine use two parallell steel chains which enters a magnet and are forced apart. Then they push on two none magnetic rollers (Look like gears on a bicycle, but not magnetic material). The magnetic chain also also enters a N/S to be forced together again. Again they are pushing similar rollers in the same direction. Look closely on the drawing in this post. I haven't found any reason (yet) why this will not work...except it would theoretically be easier to enter the first magnet than exiting it. The magnet will pull harder on metal pieces whicn is further apart than close together...then the separated parts will be forced in the opposite direction and counter force the push it does on the roller.

In a few days I will probably find myself in the big black hole again ... finally found where the flaw has been hidden all the time :-\


Offline Low-Q

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2838
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2010, 09:10:35 PM »
Here is a simple version that should work as good (or bad)...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2010, 09:10:35 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2010, 09:23:55 PM »
I wish it was that easy. I have posted a thread a few days ago with a similar idea here:http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10029.0
Mine use two parallell steel chains which enters a magnet and are forced apart. Then they push on two none magnetic rollers (Look like gears on a bicycle, but not magnetic material). The magnetic chain also also enters a N/S to be forced together again. Again they are pushing similar rollers in the same direction. Look closely on the drawing in this post. I haven't found any reason (yet) why this will not work...except it would theoretically be easier to enter the first magnet than exiting it. The magnet will pull harder on metal pieces whicn is further apart than close together...then the separated parts will be forced in the opposite direction and counter force the push it does on the roller.

In a few days I will probably find myself in the big black hole again ... finally found where the flaw has been hidden all the time :-\

Yes, your previous post does operate on the same principal. I was thinking the "V" gate toy in the other channel may be working on the same principal also, but I'm not sure how.

I built an expanding washer setup some time back, and did some tests on it. You would be surprised how much force the washers exert on each other. I think either concept could work but the one I posted looks easier to build. I was thinking just some thin shim steel rings, and take them to staples and have them laminated. Cut around the edges and mount them on an axle. Simple and easy.

The main concept is to move into the field where work could be done. The main problem I found with the expanding washers is the expanded washers require more force to remove from the field than when compressed. I'm thinking that in a continuous path where there is nothing moving into and out of the field, the increased attraction on the expanded area only adds to overall domain stiction. With the right material, this would not exist.

I see no reason why this concept does not work. (but Im sure I'll find out)





Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2010, 09:29:24 PM »
Omg, It's the Christmas OU device!
It might suffer from the pull on closer and exit expanded problem though.


 

Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2010, 10:00:39 PM »
@Low-Q
Sorry about the Christmas thing, I guess I was just to excited about the concept of operation in general.
I mean, this has to work! Just take into account the only two things that could possibly prevent it from working.

#1 Magnetic remanence.
Once somethings are magnetized, they tend to want to stay magnetized. There are materials used in shielding that do not remain magnetized and would be a good choice to eliminate this problem.

#2 Surface exposure.
If a stack of washers are exposed to a magnetic field in a parallel direction, they will become magnetized in a common direction and repel from each other. The attraction to the magnet also increases due to a larger exposed area to the magnetic field. But in a continuous band or ring, the increased field area does not increase or change the direction, it can only increase the #1 effect.

This shows that the RING MOTOR or your chain motor or several other motors that employ this concept are GUARANTEED to operate!

 

Offline ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7256
Re: Gear-magnet motor. Just a strange idea
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2010, 10:23:43 PM »
Vidar,
Maybe one more drawing please?

I don't understand the Christmas Motor,But I like Lumens enthusiasm,and it seems so simple!

Thanks
Chet

 

OneLink