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Author Topic: DIY transformer ...  (Read 19078 times)

DeepCut

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DIY transformer ...
« on: November 10, 2010, 09:42:37 PM »
Hi all.

I need to make my own (simple) transformer.

I have a ferrite-ring core, i have 18 turns for the primary and 6 for the secondary.

When i apply my AC voltage to the primary it shorts out immediately.

I have tried putting a resistor as a load on the secondary, i have also tried putting a tiny bulb as a load on the secondary.

In both cases, when the power is applied it still shorts out.

What am i missing please ?


Gary.






z.monkey

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 12:34:18 AM »
You need to get your primary side impedance up.  Take an ohm meter and measure the primary.  The resistance is probably so small it looks like a short to the AC mains, and you blow the fuse.  Its not a good idea to start your transformer experimentation using the AC mains.  There is a frightful amount of power available there.  Get an isolation transformer, or even better get an inverter that you can run on a battery so you don't electrocute yourself...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 01:28:32 AM by z.monkey »

DeepCut

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2010, 01:08:37 AM »
Thanks very much z :)

I'm not using the mains i'm using the unrectified output from my replicatoin of Tom's device :

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9999.0

The resistance of the primary at the moment is only 2.9 ohms.

So i'll just wind some more turns, what would you recommend as a minimum resistance so i can calculate my coil length ?


Gary.

z.monkey

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 01:35:29 AM »
Substitute a resistor for the transformer, and see how much current is coming out of your circuit.  Put a 1 Kohm resistor on there and see if your voltage is drooping compared to an open circuit.  Then give it more or less resistance to see how much of a load you can drive...

Then when you know how much current is available you can figure out how many turns the primary needs.  Extrapolate the ohms per winding from your current coil.  Then take desired impedance divided by the ohms per winding, and the product is the number of turns...

DeepCut

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2010, 01:46:51 AM »
Thanks again z.

Doing it now :)


Gary.

DeepCut

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2010, 08:10:10 PM »
A 1k res just stops the motor.

I'm depressed.

z.monkey

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2010, 09:07:16 PM »
I looked at your video from the 5W to 60W thread.  You built a transformer on a hollow tube.  You need to know about something called permeability.  This is the density of your core material (in this case a hollow tube).  I think you said a vegetable stock tin.  If its magnetic it works OK, but then you need to think about magnetic flux density.  Magnetic flux density is the concentration of flux lines around the coil.  Typically transformers are made as compact as possible to maximize the magnetic flux density.

It looks like you are applying direct current to your transformer and wondering why its not working properly.  Despite the idea that a "DC transformer" is a real thing I have never seen one that works.  Now there are applications where a DC pulse and a coil is used, like automotive ignitions, but that is a very different situation.  There we want a high voltage spark to ignite the gasoline, and don't care about the electrical aspects.  These Bedini motors, despite their popularity, are not the answer to free energy.

First you need to modulate the current on the primary side to make the current in the coil change.  The transformer effect only happens when the current is changing.  Sure you can do it with a switch, but that is not very efficient.  If you looks at the input and output waveforms of a switch actuated current in a transformer you will see these very narrow spikes of voltage.  Both the core and the secondary windings need time to change, and the transient voltages from the switching action are too fast for the core and the secondary winding to see the current.  The optimum waveform for an iron (steel) transformer is an AC sinewave below 500 Hertz, and Tesla calculated that the optimum frequency is 60 Hertz.  Now if you get, or build, a way to modulate your current then your transformer will start to behave like a transformer.  I have built several inverter circuits that could do this.

Then, about your magnet, I am going to assume that you are trying to modulate the transformer with the magnet spinning inside it.  This would account for the limited output that you have.  The powerful Neodymium magnet is modulating the magnetic flux field of the transformer, even though the input current is direct current, and causing the secondary coil voltage to fluctuate.  While the voltage number look impressive, the current low, thus your voltage falls off with a tiny load.

Get away from the Bedini poison, follow Tesla.  Tesla holds the magic key.  My recommendation would be to get, or build an inverter.  Rewind the transformer on a compact solid iron core.  Mount the magnet perpendicular to the end of the core, and as close as physically possible.  Then try the same experiment, and see if you get better current out of the secondary...
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 12:48:26 AM by z.monkey »

z.monkey

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2010, 12:54:15 AM »
I want to remind you that failure is an impostor.  Failure teaches us what not to do.  I have a PhD in failure because I have been doing this a long time...

Keep creating, its what makes you like your creator...

I just love circular logic...

DeepCut

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2010, 12:55:43 PM »
Thanks very much z, very well put :)

I'm sorry you wrote so much under a misapprehension though :(

That video is a magnet being spun by a switching coil connected to a bedini circuit.

The big coil you thought was the transformer is my output coil, the magnet inducing a current into it.

I'm putting 18 volts in and getting up to 200 out. I want to build the transformer to step down the voltage and get better current.

Hope this clarifies things :)

z.monkey

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2010, 01:46:05 PM »
From your 5 Watts in 60 watts out thread...
"The drive coil is the usual bifilar, 800 turns of 0.30mm and 0.28mm.

The output coil is just over a kilometre (1145 metres) of 0.25mm magnet wire."

A kilometer of wire of .25 mm wire?  388 ohms resistance?  That's like 10 mil
wire, like #30.  At what did you say 200 Volt output.  Probably the only reason
you are developing that kind of voltage is because you have so much resistance
in you wire.  You made a mini Tesla coil.  Like a voltage magnifier.  So like a
Tesla coil it is all voltage.  Get the output wires close together and see if it arcs.

I am in a similar situation.  I'm building an alternator.  I undertook a massive
effort that took months, and was very expensive.  I do have a really nice alternator,
but its performance is pitiful.  It develops 90mA, it should be developing 10s of Amps.
And the problem is the coil.  I picked the wrong wire, and the result is poor performance.
I used 22 AWG wire, which is 15 mils (.38mm), an the coil resistance is 50 Ohms.
With a 65 Ohm load on the coil it only develops 5.84 Volts.  That is a current deficiency.
So, I am replacing the wire with 14 AWG, 68 mils (1.72mm).  The calculated coil resistance
will then be 0.1 Ohms, and I measure it again when I get it assembled.  Maybe I'll get
a little more current, hoping for 10 Amps, at least.

So I gotta say been there done that.  Try putting a neon indicator lamp on the output
leads.  This is a replication, right?  Did you very carefully and precisely duplicate the
device that you are replicating?  The devil is in the details...

Wish you luck, I'm off to disassemble my alternator.  Should get the new wire today...

DeepCut

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2010, 02:47:28 PM »
Hi z.

These are my wire specs (Standard Wire Gauge, UK style):

0.250mm (#33 SWG)

0.348 ohm/mtr

It doesn't arc, i would like to see that. I'm replicating a work-in-progress so it's kinda off-beat. I'm just in love with the concept, it's like a pulsed induction-generator with only one magnet and one phase.

My current must be ok though because i have shocked myself twice and it made me yelp both times !

I like the sound of your alternator. Will you be able to wind your new wire today also ?


Gary.

mscoffman

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2010, 04:52:42 PM »
From your 5 Watts in 60 watts out thread...
"The drive coil is the usual bifilar, 800 turns of 0.30mm and 0.28mm.

The output coil is just over a kilometre (1145 metres) of 0.25mm magnet wire."

A kilometer of wire of .25 mm wire?  388 ohms resistance?  That's like 10 mil
wire, like #30.  At what did you say 200 Volt output.  Probably the only reason
you are developing that kind of voltage is because you have so much resistance
in you wire.  You made a mini Tesla coil.  Like a voltage magnifier.  So like a
Tesla coil it is all voltage.  Get the output wires close together and see if it arcs.

I am in a similar situation.  I'm building an alternator.  I undertook a massive
effort that took months, and was very expensive.  I do have a really nice alternator,
but its performance is pitiful.  It develops 90mA, it should be developing 10s of Amps.
And the problem is the coil.  I picked the wrong wire, and the result is poor performance.
I used 22 AWG wire, which is 15 mils (.38mm), an the coil resistance is 50 Ohms.
With a 65 Ohm load on the coil it only develops 5.84 Volts.  That is a current deficiency.
So, I am replacing the wire with 14 AWG, 68 mils (1.72mm).  The calculated coil resistance
will then be 0.1 Ohms, and I measure it again when I get it assembled.  Maybe I'll get
a little more current, hoping for 10 Amps, at least.

So I gotta say been there done that.  Try putting a neon indicator lamp on the output
leads.  This is a replication, right?  Did you very carefully and precisely duplicate the
device that you are replicating?  The devil is in the details...

Wish you luck, I'm off to disassemble my alternator.  Should get the new wire today...

@z.monkey

Remember, that magnetic field strength is proportional to "ampere-turns"
of the coil. So even though you can flow more current, you have to
keep the number of wire turns up. Usually the coil represents somewhat
of a trade off between volume of the coil and the number of turns,
so the simultaneous changes of parameters can cancel the desired
effect somewhat, even though lower coil resistance should help. One
idea would be to rewind it but then use an external transformer where
the coils are less constained for space.

:S:MarkSCoffman

z.monkey

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2010, 07:16:27 PM »
I like the sound of your alternator. Will you be able to wind your new wire today also ?
I get the wire today, then I have to take the alternator all the way apart, unwind the coil, rewind the coils, so maybe a couple days...

Mark, yeah I know, thought this through...

DeepCut

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2010, 01:24:49 PM »
I'm getting one of these today :

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Pushfit-Pipe-Connector/invt/431905

It will decrease friction on the axle, which is the main enemy of my RPM at the moment.

Funny the things you end up buying in this endeavour !

z.monkey

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Re: DIY transformer ...
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2010, 02:34:28 PM »
Funny the things you end up buying in this endeavour !
Today I needed wax paper, and double sided tape...