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Author Topic: Water battery with similar metals?  (Read 17969 times)

Offline ibpointless2

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Water battery with similar metals?
« on: October 26, 2010, 01:13:46 AM »
What if a water battery could be made with similar metals? would it still decay like a normal water battery due to galvanic action?

A normal water battery would use to different metals like copper and zinc; once put in water it would produce a voltage. What if you could get the same effect with same metals like copper and copper put in water? Would it last forever, be perpetual motion?

What if? What do you think? is it possible? has it been done before?

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Water battery with similar metals?
« on: October 26, 2010, 01:13:46 AM »

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 04:50:43 PM »
So if you take a neo magnet and napkins as the dielectric and put them together you get some voltage once it is soaked in water.

The voltage is not stable, for me it went from 250 mV to -250 mV. It oscillates very slowly and it will charge a capacitor but when the magnet water battery goes down in voltage so does the power that was in the capacitor, so the capacitor reflects its power.

It will only activate with water and so long as the napkin is wet it will supply power but when it dries its gone.

I think it should last longer than a normal water battery because there is no decay of metal because they all are the same metal, so it leads me to assume its the magnets that do the work and not the metal.

something i thought i should point out  ;D


Offline lasersaber

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 04:59:08 PM »
Hi

I know for certain that this is possible.  I have been making some NS coils with just copper wire.  They work just like a normal NS coil but run at a much lower current level.  So you can basically have two electrodes both copper and get electrical current.  I will post some videos showing these effects in the future.

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 06:01:45 PM »
Hi

I know for certain that this is possible.  I have been making some NS coils with just copper wire.  They work just like a normal NS coil but run at a much lower current level.  So you can basically have two electrodes both copper and get electrical current.  I will post some videos showing these effects in the future.


Wow Lasersaber! I'm a big fan of your work! Its a pleasure to have you comment on my thread! ;D

I've notice too that copper can work, just never thought of using it in a NS coil, very smart!

I've used magnets because they hold themselves and make for quick measurements. I'll try to post a video of my finding too.

Please let me know more of your only copper NS coil. How do you make them?

The biggest question i have and you may too is " Do they last longer?" because they are the same metals.


Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 07:20:50 PM »
I believe what is happening is the same as what happens in a normal lead-acid battery.

In the simple lead-acid battery, alternating plates of mostly lead (all the same metal) are exposed to electrical current. This oxidizes half the plates and changes their surfaces into lead oxide. This creates the potential difference between the now positive and negatively charged plates. The electrolyte charges of the sulfuric acid then begin to flow through the plates and create voltage.

The same is happening in your cell. Copper naturally oxidizes in water. This small oxidation creates a potential difference as a small amount of the copper surface becomes copper oxide. This is where your charge is coming from. If you have no other electrolyte than water, you are getting the charge from small water self-ionization, and the electrons that are flowing between the copper and copper-oxide wires to balance their potential.

Do you notice any greenish hue on either of the wires. My guess is that as time goes on you will notice this oxidation. Just like the copper surface of the Statue of Liberty has turned green from oxidation.

If you actually try to “charge” your cell with a battery, you should see one electrode oxidize and change color. I think this would then “kill” your cell. The copper-oxide coating acts as a protective coating in the case of the Statue of Liberty. Once one wire’s surface is completely oxidized, the reaction should basically stop.

Good luck with your experiments.

RR2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 07:20:50 PM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 09:12:24 PM »
I believe what is happening is the same as what happens in a normal lead-acid battery.

In the simple lead-acid battery, alternating plates of mostly lead (all the same metal) are exposed to electrical current. This oxidizes half the plates and changes their surfaces into lead oxide. This creates the potential difference between the now positive and negatively charged plates. The electrolyte charges of the sulfuric acid then begin to flow through the plates and create voltage.

The same is happening in your cell. Copper naturally oxidizes in water. This small oxidation creates a potential difference as a small amount of the copper surface becomes copper oxide. This is where your charge is coming from. If you have no other electrolyte than water, you are getting the charge from small water self-ionization, and the electrons that are flowing between the copper and copper-oxide wires to balance their potential.

Do you notice any greenish hue on either of the wires. My guess is that as time goes on you will notice this oxidation. Just like the copper surface of the Statue of Liberty has turned green from oxidation.

If you actually try to “charge” your cell with a battery, you should see one electrode oxidize and change color. I think this would then “kill” your cell. The copper-oxide coating acts as a protective coating in the case of the Statue of Liberty. Once one wire’s surface is completely oxidized, the reaction should basically stop.

Good luck with your experiments.

RR2


What if you're not using copper but instead your using neo magnets?

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 10:03:09 PM »

What if you're not using copper but instead your using neo magnets?

The metal on the magnet's surface in contact with the water would then be the metal being oxidized.

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 10:03:09 PM »
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Offline lasersaber

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2010, 10:43:04 PM »
Quote
"The metal on the magnet's surface in contact with the water would then be the metal being oxidized."

This is why my latest NS coils are made with enamel covered copper wire and run dry with no electrolyte.  I am tired of trying to guess how much of the NS coil effect is galvanic vs non-galvanic.  I am now doing tests to see how fast they charge capacitors and how well they work when in a Faraday cage.  So far I have just been testing them inside an aluminum foil covered container.  Does anybody know if this makes a good enough Faraday cage for testing?  I am pleased with my results so far and I do plan on fully documenting the coils on video after I do more testing.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 04:41:36 AM by lasersaber »

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 12:37:40 AM »
Hello Lasersaber,

Now that experiment sounds interesting. Is your foil container grounded? If so, that's great. You eliminate both the galvanic variable and the RF variable as well.

May I ask...Did you just paint the wires with clearcoat?

Thanks for sharing your efforts,

RR2

Offline lasersaber

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 05:01:11 AM »
Quote
Is your foil container grounded?

Yes, I have tested it both grounded and ungrounded.  It made no difference in the test results.

Quote
May I ask...Did you just paint the wires with clearcoat?

I used regular enamel magnet wire for the copper wire.  I used uninsulated steel wire for the other wire.  I was careful not to scratch the enamel in the winding process.  I also made three coils to test in case one had a defect in some way.  I also saturated one of them with silicone spray lubrication that is specifically designed to "waterproof, rustproof and lubricate.  The oil coated one works just the same as the others.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 02:01:08 PM by lasersaber »

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 05:01:11 AM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2010, 01:41:31 PM »
Yes, I have tested it both grounded and ungrounded.  I made no difference in the test results.

I used regular enamel magnet wire for the copper wire.  I used uninsulated steel wire for the other wire.  I was careful not to scratch the enamel in the winding process.  I also made three coils to test in case one had a defect in some way.  I also saturated one of them with silicone spray lubrication that is specifically designed to "waterproof, rustproof and lubricate.  The oil coated one works just the same as the others.





It might be enamel coating? Can you do a continuity test on a piece of enamel wire, not the copper underneath but the actual enamel?

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2010, 08:16:59 PM »
oh wow, i forgot i even made this thread.

I was doing a google search for something dealing with water batteries with similar metals and i come across this, a thread i created on the topic.

I didn't plan on messing with water batteries its just one thing led to another and now i'm back where i started, funny how that works. I've been trying to make a homemade water captret and i though i succeeded but i think what i'm seeing is something very different. You see I'm using to similar metals that are in water and when i hook it up in series to a battery i get more voltage out then what i put in. On further experimenting i believe it was due the "water captret" actually being a water battery. You can watch the video here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGQmHY0ervQ

It seems that my water captret is just a water battery, but not in the sense of a normal water battery where it uses two dissimilar metals but the same metal. But in order for it to work well you just can't go and take two of the same metals and place them in water, there's more to it.

The reason why i think it works so well is what i'm using and how i'm using it. I'm using aluminum foil, but one piece is bigger than the other. For some odd reason having one piece bigger than the other is giving me voltage, enough to charge a capacitor. The greater the difference in size of the plates the greater the potential difference.

So why is this so important? well aluminum doesn't rust like other metals when exposed to water, due to the aluminum oxide that forms on it. So what this gives us is a battery that could last a long time, I've heard of aluminum taking decades to corrode, and the battery is easy and cheap to make. Its so simple that its crazy.


Offline Omnibus

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2010, 08:30:41 PM »
What if a water battery could be made with similar metals? would it still decay like a normal water battery due to galvanic action?

A normal water battery would use to different metals like copper and zinc; once put in water it would produce a voltage. What if you could get the same effect with same metals like copper and copper put in water? Would it last forever, be perpetual motion?

What if? What do you think? is it possible? has it been done before?

Of course, it has been done before. It's called concentration cell, as you have gravity cells or cells using differentplanes of a monocrystal. Place the similar metals, say Cu, in vessels containing different concentrations of water solutionof CuSO4 and you'll have it. Recall the Nernst equation from school to find an explanation.

Offline topothemtn

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2010, 07:07:18 AM »
  Since your cap has more voltage than your battery; will it charge up the battery. Maybe with a diode?


Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 02:59:31 PM »
  Since your cap has more voltage than your battery; will it charge up the battery. Maybe with a diode?

I don't see why it shouldn't but i'm going to need more than a diode, maybe a joule thief. and also more of the caps need to be in series inorder to get something of that nature.

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Re: Water battery with similar metals?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 02:59:31 PM »

 

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