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Author Topic: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell  (Read 12395 times)

Offline Poit

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Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« on: September 13, 2010, 04:54:11 AM »
Hi everyone,
I set out today to buy the ingredients for a Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell.
Which is basically;
 Aluminium foil (supermarket) $3AUD
 Graphite pencil (I used a 6B sketching pencil) $1.50 (for a pack of 5)
 Cotten cloth (I used Cotten+Polyester, mainly because I couldn't find 100% cotten) $10 - it was actually a tshirt, but hey, 10 bucks is cheap
 Two copper wires

Make sure to damp the cloth in warm salty water.

Thats it.. below are the pictures of my first attempt...

Oh, one more thing.... I am a little confused, my JT won't work on this, its 4 times more power than my other experiments and yet the JT won't light an LED, does any one know why?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« on: September 13, 2010, 04:54:11 AM »

Offline fritznien

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 05:54:23 AM »
you have .55 volts dc and 42 ma out.
but not at the same time, the voltage is open circuit and the currant is short circuit.
under load there is not enough voltage to run the JT.
fritznien

Offline Poit

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 06:21:19 AM »
you have .55 volts dc and 42 ma out.
but not at the same time, the voltage is open circuit and the currant is short circuit.
under load there is not enough voltage to run the JT.
fritznien

but on one of my salt water battery setups, I had .6volt @ 13mA out and that was enough to power the JT+LED.

Offline fritznien

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 06:57:04 AM »
remeasure under load and you will see a big differance.
fritznien

Offline Poit

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 12:45:39 PM »
remeasure under load and you will see a big differance.
fritznien

I made another one, twice as big, works great with a jt and led now... is there another cheap form of graphite (or carbon)? I know that certain battery types have a carbon rod. Ive also heard that a black n decker replacement brush is good too... surely there are other "everyday" items out there that can be used in these fuel cells... any ideas?

pete

p.s thanks for your input thus far...

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 12:45:39 PM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2010, 04:31:16 AM »
Hi Pete.
I think you found your answer.

It was really close with the first one, but when it is so close but won't start and maybe should, I place a memory cap in parallel with the battery leads.

So, you would use the pos of the memory cap hooked to the carbon and the neg to the Al (or Zinc or Mg, for that matter).
I bought some of these caps from allelectronics a few years ago at $3.50USD. maybe they still have them.

But the nearby dump might have a motherboard that nobody has picked clean yet.
Mine are 5.5v and 1F. On the plant battery that produces only 6mA , this cap could take as long as 30 minutes to fill to the running voltage of the transistor. After that the light goes on.

My explanation of why this works is the cap fills to the on level then any tiny amount more than that and the circuit will turn on.

Some batteries like the TT Brown or Hutchinson  crystal cells that Ian made, or the first 3 weeks of my 'phyllis' plant battery made from magnesium stone only blinked.

The possibility exists too that the joule thief takes volts and amps for such a little amount of time that there is a squeek extra from each cycle.
In my 'phyllis' plant battery with the Mg stone, the flashing became steady after about 3 weeks!
It is still going steady after some months. It started on the 25th of March and here it is mid september and she is still a steady light.

I love these home made batteries.
In fact these can better define a good circuit design since the amperage is so limited.

Lots of talk, I hope you don't mind.
Maybe it can help.

jeanna

Offline dllabarre

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2010, 04:54:04 AM »
I made another one, twice as big, works great with a jt and led now... is there another cheap form of graphite (or carbon)? I know that certain battery types have a carbon rod. Ive also heard that a black n decker replacement brush is good too... surely there are other "everyday" items out there that can be used in these fuel cells... any ideas?

pete

p.s thanks for your input thus far...

There are carbon welding rods that I get from the local welding supply company.
Some come copper coated but the copper peels/scrapes off real easy with a sharp knife. Mine are 3/8" in diameter.  Be careful.  They are fragile and can snap in 2 real easy.  Believe me I have several small pieces laying around  :-[

DonL


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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2010, 04:54:04 AM »
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Offline Poit

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2010, 04:18:50 PM »
someone said in another thread that these "batteries" are not batteries they are generators, because they can't be recharged.... got me thinking..... screw all of this!!!!!!! im going to build lead acid batteries...... i mean.... why the hell not?? lead is free/cheap.... sulfuric acid is.. well, can't be that expensive right? you only need 30% any ways..... i just got home after a 13 hour shift at a cloak room - music festival with 20,000 people there :(.......... bed time

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2010, 06:23:04 PM »
I am no battery expert, so please take this as just something to think about.

12 volt lead-acid battery technology has developed over decades and decades. All commercial battery manufacturers have financed years and years in the design and materials research. They have been pushed by financial and market forces to give you the longest lasting, most reliable product they possibly can at the most reasonable cost they can. They also are driven by market safety forces as well. It is in their best interest to give you a safe, reliable product.

Now, keeping that in mind, do you really think it is worth the risk of dealing with building a lead-acid battery from scratch? The acid mixtures are hazardous both in fumes and in to the touch. Even commercial batteries have been known to explode. Hydrogen and oxygen gases generated need to be expelled or dealt with safely. What electrodes are the best? How do they hold up over time? What case design is best? What materials don't turn brittle when in contact with concentrated acid?

My point is that in our quest to "stick it to the man" we need to weigh the risks involved.

Now, maybe none of this is a problem for you. Maybe you are highly experienced and intelligent in this area?

Please keep these things in mind.

RR2

Offline Poit

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2010, 06:29:32 AM »
I am no battery expert, so please take this as just something to think about.

12 volt lead-acid battery technology has developed over decades and decades. All commercial battery manufacturers have financed years and years in the design and materials research. They have been pushed by financial and market forces to give you the longest lasting, most reliable product they possibly can at the most reasonable cost they can. They also are driven by market safety forces as well. It is in their best interest to give you a safe, reliable product.

Now, keeping that in mind, do you really think it is worth the risk of dealing with building a lead-acid battery from scratch? The acid mixtures are hazardous both in fumes and in to the touch. Even commercial batteries have been known to explode. Hydrogen and oxygen gases generated need to be expelled or dealt with safely. What electrodes are the best? How do they hold up over time? What case design is best? What materials don't turn brittle when in contact with concentrated acid?

My point is that in our quest to "stick it to the man" we need to weigh the risks involved.

Now, maybe none of this is a problem for you. Maybe you are highly experienced and intelligent in this area?

Please keep these things in mind.

RR2

If what you were saying were true, why is the cost for a 12 volt battery so darn expensive? The most expensive example I can give is for an on-site delivery of a 12 volt car battery if you have broken down in your car... $180..... $180!! for what? 20 - 30 cents worth of lead and $1 - $2 of sulfuric acid if that...... so im paying  $179 for the company to make such a battery? and for the guy to install it?

I would rather risk blowing my self up if I could save $$$$$$$$$

A well ventilated room with hundred of home made batteries is ideal for two reason:
1: save crap loads of $$$$
2: when the lead plates "worn" or dirty, one can clean and repair easily....


there are a LOT more benefits than down sides to building your own lead acid battery

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2010, 06:29:32 AM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: Aluminium Graphite Fuel Cell
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2010, 07:09:16 AM »
@poit,
I think rr has made some very good points about making a lead acid battery.
He is a chemist and knows about things like messy dangerous liquids!

There is a work-around here, however.
If you study up on a bedini battery charging circuit you will learn how to make sulphated and nearly free lead acid batteries work again.
There are a lot of folks who have success with this and IMO it is an exciting prospect.

It will be fun to learn about making a ssg too.

Meantime, how is your aluminum-graphite battery doing?

I made 2 of those when stephan first started his thread on that and I ran a normal led for many days before the aluminum needed cleaning.
Now, with a joule thief, one would do it and probably last even longer.

jeanna

 

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