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Author Topic: The Bucking Magnet Motor  (Read 148864 times)

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2011, 01:49:56 AM »
knowledge that no armchair could ever give  :P .
Yeah, I prefer a shop stool...

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2011, 01:49:56 AM »

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2011, 01:38:42 PM »
So, Broli I agree that new energy machines don't build themselves.  And you are not going to find off-the-shelf parts to simply assemble one either.  Get the tools, get the raw materials and build it.  A lot of the stuff that I have put into this machine came off-the-shelf, but the critical working parts had to be fabricated.

Someone here has the name Dream-Think-Build.  Yeah, that's pretty much it...

I got the magnets on order Tuesday.  I needed to get a #6-32 tap, and a tube of Loctite.  Got those.    Still need to get a box of #6-32 countersunk machine screws.  I've been inspecting the parts and there are some adjustments to be made.  I am going to go ahead and bottom out the relief cuts.  This gives me a little extra clearance between the magnets.  Then if I need to tighten the clearance I can use shim washers.  I want to err on the wide side in regards to the magnets.  Don't want my fancy Neo-Mags smashing into each other...

This picture is from Feb. 5, at the end of that ice storm that glazed everyone in...

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Offline Bizzy

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2011, 06:24:43 PM »
Working down the stator disk now...
Wow I appluad your skill and inventiveness. I tried a similar design but not nearly involved as yours.
Bizzy

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2011, 09:29:19 PM »
Thanks Bizzy,

With enough brainpowers we can crack this nut...  As with any engineering problem, it just a matter of applying an appropriate amount of engineering hours.  I've been conceptualizing this for a couple of decades.  It was just last August that got the impetus to finally draw it.  Now I am less than a week away from test...

Very exciting...


Offline Bizzy

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2011, 09:35:48 PM »
Thanks Bizzy,

With enough brainpowers we can crack this nut...  As with any engineering problem, it just a matter of applying an appropriate amount of engineering hours.  I've been conceptualizing this for a couple of decades.  It was just last August that got the impetus to finally draw it.  Now I am less than a week away from test...

Very exciting...
Yes very exciting indeed. Like I mentioned I went down this same raod myself so I am very interested to hear about your results.
Bizzy

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2011, 09:35:48 PM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2011, 12:28:43 PM »
I've finishing up the relief cut adjustments while I was waiting for the magnets to arrive.  Also, added a more weight reduction holes.  I got the magnets on Monday afternoon.  This morning I started the process of drilling and tapping the holes to secure the magnets.  The stator disk can be drilled, and tapped from the outside (easier).  The driver ring has to be drilled, and tapped from the inside, which will be a lot more tricky.  I got a 90 degree drill chuck attachment to do this.  Got two magnet mounting holes made so far, only 42 more to go...

Offline loosecannon

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2011, 06:13:43 AM »
Zmonkey,  following this thread with much interest.  very cool build so far!
cant wait to see more.

i am curious about something.  i noticed that you are using bolts to locate/hold the outer driver disk in place.

are you concerned about interaction between the magnets on the stator and those bolts?

i am very much a newb when it comes to magnet motors, so please excuse my question if it is not an issue.
LC

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2011, 06:13:43 AM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2011, 10:18:16 AM »
Howdy LC,

The Driver Ring Pins are steel, and yeah there is a interference possibility.  The magnets are spaced around the entire periphery, while the driver pins are a comparatively small area of the total periphery.  Its an experimental device so anything is possible.  And there have been many times already where I have had to employ spin control, er uh, kludge on the fly.  I can make the Driver Ring Pins out of non-ferrous material like Brass if I need to...

When I make the next one I will probably change the Driver Ring mounting holes to the corners of the plate, like on the DiaMag6 mounting plate (large 1/2" bolts used for feet).  This would get the Driver Ring mounting holes away from the magnets, allow us to have more material (stronger) around the Driver Ring, and simplify the fabrication process.

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2011, 02:35:21 PM »
Back in the Metal Shop...

I am marking the Stator Disk for the magnet holes.  The magnets are going to be snug in the corner of the cant and the relief.  So, I want the holes centered in the plate, and a quarter inch away from the corner.  Set the caliper to 0.125 inches and scratch a line lengthwise down the cant, using the edge of the plate as a reference.  This is center of the plate.  Repeat for all the cants.  Then reset the caliper to 0.250 inches and scratch a line perpendicular to the center line, using the inside corner of the cant as a reference to guide the caliper.  Again, repeat for all the cants.

Now on each cross section we need to start the hole with a center punch.  I align the cant to where it is level in the jaws of the vise.  Then use the spring loaded to make a dimple at the intersection of the two markings.  make sure you have the punch right where you want it and give 3 punches.  If you put this dimple in the wrong place your hole will be in the wrong place.  If you do put the dimple in the wrong place you can use a flat faced punch, flatten the area, remark the area, and then try again.  When you are metal working you need to be able to correct mistakes, you know spin control, mo later...

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2011, 02:37:52 PM »
Getting a rhythm now, making progress..

Drill Hole, Tap Hole, Drill Hole, Tap Hole...

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2011, 02:37:52 PM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2011, 02:44:32 PM »
Rhythm interrupted...

Snapped off a tap.  This is inevitable because there is a lot of stress on a tap.  And I was really trying to take it easy on this one.  This tap came from an Ace Hardware store.  It lasted 9 holes before it broke.  Fortunately it snapped above the hole, and I was able to unscrew it, saved the hole...

The second tap, uulgh, came from Harbor Freight.  It snapped the first time I used it.  And it snapped off in the hole.  I am hugely disappointed with the second tap.  I have to drive like ten miles to a Ace Hardware to get more taps.  Big Sigh...

Offline hydrocontrol

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2011, 03:12:06 PM »
Rhythm interrupted...

Snapped off a tap.  This is inevitable because there is a lot of stress on a tap.  And I was really trying to take it easy on this one.  This tap came from an Ace Hardware store.  It lasted 9 holes before it broke.  Fortunately it snapped above the hole, and I was able to unscrew it, saved the hole...

The second tap, uulgh, came from Harbor Freight.  It snapped the first time I used it.  And it snapped off in the hole.  I am hugely disappointed with the second tap.  I have to drive like ten miles to a Ace Hardware to get more taps.  Big Sigh...

I have drilled and tapped hundreds of holes without breakage. The major key is lubrication and a good tap. A small amount of tap oil will keep the tap from binding. In place of tap oil you can use wd-40 or even vegetable oil.

Good project and good progess.


Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2011, 04:20:24 PM »
Thanks Hydrocontrol,

On the way to the store it occurred to me that I am probably making the pilot hole a little small also.  I do have some thread cutting oil, and didn't even think to use it...

Doh!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 06:46:53 PM by z.monkey »

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2011, 02:32:43 AM »
I have snapped off another tap, and a drill bit.  My list of failed tools is getting long today...

Two holes are unusable, going with backup plan, gorilla glue...

The depth of the holes relative to the girth of the tap is a problem.  Lubrication helps, but when there are lateral stresses, like when it breaks through a hole into a angled wall, the frictional stresses are so great the tap snaps, and it is stuck like Adamantium fused with Unobtanium.  Ain't Mutha-Forkin' gonna move...

So, the Ultimate work around...  Gorilla Glue...

Just for a few parts mind you...  This is only for temporary use.  Experimental purposes only...

I may change my mounting strategy here, but really not sure where to go.  I'll try and finish this one as planned.

But it may be a kludge-a-matic-o-saurus-amongus, and it might not last long in test...

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Offline loosecannon

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2011, 11:31:41 PM »
sorry to hear about your woes.

ive drilled plenty of aluminum and ive broken off more than my share of bits and taps in it.

not sure if you are trying to use the mill when threading those holes, but i find it easier to use a cordless drill to tap holes. the mill didnt give me enough time to stop or back up before the tap broke. the cordless drill gave me more control. definitely use aluminum cutting fluid also.

depending on the hole size you are using, you might think about abandoning the tapping idea, and just use sheet metal screws.
if the pre-drill is the right size, and you use a bit of bee's wax or soap on the screws, they should go right in no problem.

the concern i have now is that the gorilla glue will throw off the balance of the stator because you will have no screw in two places.
you've spent so much time making this thing very balanced it would be a shame to have it wobble now.

i hope i have posted this in time, and you havent gone past the point of no return yet.
there may be a way for you to save those holes with the drill bit/ tap in them.

because you have stuck a ferrous metal into a non-ferrous metal, you may be able to use Alum to dissolve the drill bit.
mind you i have never tried this, but i have heard of it working.

here is a little write up for jewelry, but the same concepts apply.
at least its an avenue to pursue so you dont have to give up on them.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4999647_dissolve-broken-drill-bit.html

good luck with it!
LC

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2011, 11:31:41 PM »

 

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