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Author Topic: The Bucking Magnet Motor  (Read 149020 times)

Offline z.monkey

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The Bucking Magnet Motor
« on: August 26, 2010, 02:52:33 AM »
http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=976
 
This is an interesting article on magnet motors.  Sometimes called
Homopolar, or Monopole Motors they operate on the principle of
magnetic repulsion alone, no fuel involved.  The state of this
technology is experimental, with mainly Garage Engineers working
on the problem.  You might wonder why industry has not adopted
this technology, but we already know the answer to that, oil.
 
When this technology is developed to an industrial state it will
supplant other methods of motive power.  So, naturally the people
that support existing technologies will resist this technology.
Developing technologies like this could be seen as "Maverick" or
"Cavalier", but I think it is our responsibility.  So, what are
we waiting for?  Waiting for the oil to run out first?  If we don't
have viable technologies to replace oil, before it runs out, then
there is going to be a major crisis when it does.  I like hot
showers, and am not waiting for a crisis to embrace new technologies.
 
I am toying with a new concept called "Cooking with Free Energy"
Its sort of a vehicle which combines revolutionary new ideas with
something that is familiar and comfortable, like food.  Basically
we build a new technology, and then use it to cook food.  Like a
magnet motor running a Daimag alternator, which powers a hotplate,
on which we cook a pot of Frejoles Del Fuego...
 
Now that's Cooking with Free Energy...
 
Fukin Magnets...

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The Bucking Magnet Motor
« on: August 26, 2010, 02:52:33 AM »

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 10:25:21 PM »
This thing has been festering in my brain for probably 20 years.  I have been fascinated with magnets since I was a little monkey, but I was in my early 20's when I was introduced to the idea of a motor which operated on the concept of bucking magnets.  It seems logical enough that you could make some tricky arrangement of repelling magnets that creates force in a singular direction.  I have more time to draw pretty pictures lately.  Also I have a motive now.  The Diamag Alternator needs something to drive it.  I was thinking about a wind impeller, but big business is all over that wind thing.  So lets go the other way, more exotic, and esoteric.  The Bucking Magnet Motor is just the thing.

First and foremost I don't want to copy anyone, especially designs that don't work.  If you punch "Magnet Motor" into Teh Yuo Tubez you can see a zillion and a half experimental magnet motors made from CD-ROM disks and piles of Neo-Mags.  I don't want to do that either.  I don't want to make a demonstrator model, a proof of concept, or any sort of half-assed prototype.  I want a Magnet Motor that works, as in providing useful power.  I have seen a few that do spin on their own, but haven't seen any spinning a load, and providing significant output power.  There are some others that I am not sure about, like Lutec, and Yildiz, they may have it figured out, but I don't know what is inside their devices.

Observer Lady:  "That motor is repulsive!"

Z.Monkey:  "Yes Ma'am, absolutely repulsive!"

Think of Bruce DePalma's N-Machine.  Not literally, but figuratively.  "N-Machine"? Homopolar Motor? Monopole Motor?  These things can't work!  There is no such thing as mono-polarity.  Hermetic law teaches that there is always polarity, for every plus there is a minus, for every top there is a bottom.  But, what I wasn't seeing here is we don't need to use both poles.  We can have one side working, and the other side just pointed off into space.  Seems like an abomination, ignore one of the poles?  Oh No!  We can't do that!  What will it think?  LOL!

I don't want to hurt the South Pole's feelings, but were not using him here.  In honor of Bruce DePalma we're going to use the North Poles, to make a new N-Machine.  Sorry, not copying him either...

OK, back to repulsiveness, we need to maximize the repulsiveness of our new motor.  How does we do this?  Magnets repel each other the strongest when like poles are directly facing each other.  So, this is the first caveat to our design.  The like poles of the magnets need to face each other, but we also need to provide the vector of movement.  If the magnets are mounted flush with the periphery of the stator (the moving part) then the vector of movement would be towards the axle of the stator.  Is that going to provide motion?  No, but will act as a brake locking the stator in a position.  To make the stator move the vector of motion needs to be toward one side or the other.  We need the magnets to be canted (angled).  So, we already figured out that a zero degree cant is not going to work.  Likewise we don't want to swing the cant around to 90 degrees either because the magnets would no longer be facing each other.  The cant needs to be somewhere in between.  So, I spent several days drawing different cant angles looking for the magic combination.  The drawing below is revision 6, so yeah, I explored this pretty thoroughly.  I tried 30 degree, and 60 degrees, and combinations, at one point I was considering a bicanted design that was 45 degrees on the stator and 60 degrees on the driver.  At that point I realized that I have made an error drawing the driver cants, and that they also needed to be 45 degrees.  So the result is a 45 degree cant on the magnets...

Another thing that I have seen in magnet motors is symmetrical designs that stall for that reason.  What I mean by symmetrical design is there are an equal number of magnets on the driver, and the stator, which are arranged in symmetrical increments.  While these designs have all the push, at certain places around the periphery, they have no push in the sweet spot between the fields where they stall.  A stall is something that I do not want to experience.  Between each magnet is a sweet spot where the field from one magnet is interacting with the magnet adjacent to it.  A symmetrical design can fall into this sweet spot, and stall.  To mitigate the risk of stalls I am making a uniform asymmetrical design.  Uniform asymmetrical means that it is regular in its irregularity.  The diameter of the stator is smaller than the diameter of the driver.  We can put more magnets on the driver than we can put on the stator.  This is necessary in that we need to minimize the possibility of a stall.  Having more magnets on the driver helps, but is not the answer here.  What we need are different spacing patterns between the stator and the driver.  This way when some of the magnets are passing through the transition space the other magnets are pushing the magnets traversing the magnetic field transition space.  The way I did this was to use different spacing between the magnets on the stator, and the magnets on the driver.  On the stator the magnet spacing is 18 degrees.  On the driver the magnet spacing is 15 degrees.  This breaks down into 4 quadrants with equal properties.  Each quadrant has 5 stator magnets, of which 2 are in transition, and the other 3 are pushing.  Each quadrant has 6 driver magnets...

So, in summary, this is a Uniform Asymmetrical Bucking Magnet Motor (UABMM) design.  The Stator is 6 inches outside diameter and holds 20 NIB magnets on 18 degree centers.  The Driver is 6.5 inches inside diameter and holds 24 NIB magnets on 15 degree centers.  The Cant (Angle) of the magnets is 45 degrees relative to the vertical axis through the center of the stator.  And, of course, the north side of the magnet is the business end, so the north poles are pointed out from the stator, and in from the driver.  The NIB magnets are a K&J Part Number B884DCS, which have a countersunk hole for a #6 screw.

OKz, have fun with that one, I know I will...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 12:10:12 AM by z.monkey »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2010, 10:54:01 PM »
Hi @zmonkey

Maybe this photos from a project one guy was doing about the perendev serve you.
With your schematic and those visuals I think it is easier for the replicators.

Jesus

Offline ramset

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2010, 11:06:44 PM »
Fellahs
I don't know if its just my computer ?
But I believe you posted a large pic and now I have to scroll back and forth to read the text.
I think you can resize the pic and fix this scrolling issue?

Chet


Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2010, 12:12:12 AM »
There fixed the picture Ramset...

Nievesoliveras, Perendev is very close, but the UABMM is different.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2010, 12:12:12 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2010, 02:00:28 AM »
I saw the first picture you posted and thought that were equal.
But now looking at it again it has some diferences.

Jesus

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 02:33:41 AM »
i know somebody who has also build a design like this in the past.
Actually he build several.
He spent the big bucks on having the parts CNC'd out of plexiglass.
It was looking fantastic but it did not work.
And i know why, but it seems the rest of the world still thinks that magnets deliver energy...
I guess it is a result of what they see when they move them but they do not understand the mechanism behind all of that.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 02:33:41 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 01:45:57 PM »
There are many people ho claim to have working magnet motors.  Perendev, Yildiz, Lutec, and DePalma are a few.  I plan on cutting the parts myself, so it limits the cost to materials.  Granted the magnets (44) will be around $75, and yes it is a labor intensive project...

I had planned on using an overdriven wind impeller to drive the Diamag Alternator, but this is so much more fun...

I can always fall back to using a coal fired steam turbine to drive it, LOL!

Edit:  There is a difference that is not readily apparent in in my drawing.  The surface area of the magnets is large compared to the depth of the magnets.  Like in the pictures of the Perendev Replica, those magnets look like pencils, mine are 1/2" square and 1/4" deep...

« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 03:52:55 PM by z.monkey »

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 04:03:03 PM »
For the person that asked me if I had the other parts of the perendev.
Here is what I got:

Jesus

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 04:24:17 AM »
So, do you have that magnet motor design ready yet?

LOL!

So I got a few things that will help...

The Rotary Table will clamp into my Bitmoore Vise and let us cut
precision metal circles.  Still waiting for that one...
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-inch-rotary-table-and-clamping-kit-98077.html

Then got some new mills.  They are M42-Cobalt Steel bits so we shouldn't
have any trouble with aluminum plates...

1/4" Mill Drill...
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000153227407

1/8" Side Mill...
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000153227448

Then got some aluminum stock...

8"x8"x1/2" Plate...
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000153227397

8"x8"x1/4" Plate....
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000153227558

Then also the shaft arbor to connect the UABMM to the Diamag Alternator...

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=3ZN04&op=search&Ntt=3ZN04&N=0&sst=subset

The only thing that I haven't ordered is the magnets.  I'm gonna wait till we
have the UABMM cut before I order the magnets...

I got the winding slots in the Diamag Alternator finished last Saturday.  I spent
a couple days this week filing the winding races and cleaning up the bores
on the Diamag Alternator.  Now I need to debur, degrease, mark, and laminate
the steel plates.  Then we can assemble the plate stack, wind the coils, and
install the Neo-Dia-Mags...

The UABMM is waiting on the Rotary Table.  This piece in conjunction with
the Bitmoore Vise makes my modest setup a 4 Axis Mill.  And Iz got some
serious bitz now....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 04:24:17 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2010, 01:38:11 PM »
OK, got the rotary table...
Now its a 4 axis mill...
Lets shred some metal...

Offline khabe

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2010, 09:47:43 PM »
OK, got the rotary table...
Now its a 4 axis mill...
Lets shred some metal...

To be honest  - bit closer to  4 axis mill it will be when rotary axis is horisontal  8)
cheers,
khabe


Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 01:08:42 PM »
This is a budget mill.  I don't have the room to run the rotary table vertically.

Its a tabletop 12 speed, 1/2 horsepower drill press...
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-speed-bench-top-drill-press-44836.html

With a milling vise, the X and Y Axis reach is 7" x 8"...
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-drill-press-milling-vise-94276.html

The Z axis is the table and its range is 10 inches.  So I have a small space
for working.  If I had a full mill, yes it would be better to have the rotary
table vertical, and cut the cants with an end mill.  But here I don't have
the space, so I'll cut the cants from the side with a side mill, and then
file out the corners.

You have to look at the cost difference involved.  My "Mini-Mill" cost around
$300 to build.  Compare that to a cheap mill...
http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html

Or a little better mill...
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-half-horsepower-heavy-duty-milling-drilling-machine-33686.html

Semi-Pro Mill...
http://www.harborfreight.com/vertical-milling-machine-40939.html

Or an Industrial Mill...
http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-turret-head-milling-machine-with-9-inch-x-49-inch-table-38733.html

And that last one is cheap compared to American, Japanese, and German products...

It would be great to have CNC control too, but that is also lots of bux.
Its monkey controlled...

Offline z.monkey

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2010, 02:00:03 PM »
I had a little problem with the rotary table.  I need a center point mount to make circles.  The bottom of the table has a M6 screw which secures the bottom bearing plate.  But, the threads only reach up about half way, and the remaining bore is smaller than the diameter of the screw.  So, first I found some long hardened M6 screws (grade 8 ), and then carefully looked at how the table comes together.  The iron rotating part is solid and there is a channel at the end of the shaft which holds the bearing.  There is a bearing plate which holds the other side of the bearing.  The M6 screw holds this bearing plate to the table on the bottom side.  So I figure I need to bore out the remaining hole to accommodate the long clamping screw in the center.  I only removed about 15 mils on each side of the bore, and the long M6 screw fits great.  This will clamp the aluminum pieces on to the table for making the circles.

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Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2010, 02:51:58 PM »
If something goes wrong with your table setup, you can buy or build an adjustable circle maker.

Jesus

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bucking Magnet Motor
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2010, 02:51:58 PM »

 

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