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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Zarko on August 25, 2010, 03:08:17 AM

Title: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Zarko on August 25, 2010, 03:08:17 AM
Howdy.

It seems that everyone's always talking about Ed Gray's magic technology.  But no one ever actually says how it works.  Well, I've known the basic principle since back in 97 when I just drew it out, looked at it, and saw what it does.  It's just like a Van deGraaff generator.  Look at my drawing and see what you think.

Zar
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Zarko on August 26, 2010, 11:11:52 PM
Reading Edwin's patents he says the grids can be different sizes for different voltages.  This is because the electrostatic coupling region around the arc only goes out so far with a certain voltage.  If the grid is too big just use a third electrode from the end of the grid down towards the spark gap.  The POSITIVE end of the gap.

O'Zark
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: XS-NRG on August 27, 2010, 12:51:51 AM
WOW!
i was always thinking it had to do with the capacitance between the grids.
Thats why DC is important a capacitor blocks DC so if there is any RF or AC like component between those grids it will simply carry the high voltage over to them making them very dangerous  :o

I think you missing quite alot about Mr Gray's system.
Things might not be so easy as they seem.
They go much further then a simple static burst or discharge.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Zarko on August 27, 2010, 01:35:11 AM
There IS a lot more to Gray's technology than just the Conversion Tube.  There's also energy coming from the other direction, from the reverse biased diode.  I may put up a video showing a single wire 'dielectric energy' effect from that point - going to the plastic blocks in the motor.  But remember that the pulses from the grid HAVE to be positive to charge the recovery capacitor.

Z
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Zarko on August 28, 2010, 09:44:24 PM
Gray always used blocks of plastic in his motors.  He also used the plastic in his electrostatic generator.  Anyone who builds a HV pulse motor, without including this plastic and the energy associated with charging it, does not have an E.V. Gray motor replication.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Zarko on September 20, 2010, 05:07:41 PM
You gotta give Edwin Gray credit for having some brains.  He built an Electrical Conversion Tube which transformed energy in a high voltage spark into pure potential.  Having heard of Tesla's work with super short unidirectional pulses, Edwin knew that this potential will travel through a circuit almost instantly, producing no heat at all.  As long as the pulses were short enough.  So Gray made the grid in his Tube short enough for the electricity to be cold, since the length of the grid determines the discharge time period.  If he needed more power in the pulses, he just added more mass to the grid by making it thicker.  This provided more free charge carriers in the metal, to be shorted to the central conductor by the electrostatic energy around the arc.  And he already knew more than most people: how to split the positive into two branches of the circuit, sending an equal amount of energy to each coil.

But he didn't stop there.  It is a measure of Edwin Gray's genius that he instinctively knew that the potential to the coils would have to increase as they moved apart, to ensure a constant torque.  So he added more grids to his Tube.  The closest grid to the center would have the most voltage, since it had the smallest surface area for a given amount of charge.  Half turn inductive loops interconnecting each of the grids ensured that the grids discharged sequentially, with the outer grid having the least voltage being the first to provide its potential to the circuit.  This resulted in the stair step waveform shown in the patent as 25a and 26a in his schematic.

Some people credit Marvin Cole as the inventor of the first motor.  Cole, a mechanical engineer, was Gray's neighbor back in Prescott, Arizona--a quaint little mountain community where I also resided in '59 and '60, having moved down from Las Vegas.  (Gray was there from '59 to '61.  Then HE went TO Las Vegas.)  But it was Gray who gave the key to the motor to Cole, drawing out the concept on beer napkins after he experimented and found that the unidirectional potential from the grids resulted in an unusual amount of repulsion.  Edwin Gray was the genius behind the technology.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 14, 2014, 10:41:04 AM
I've noticed in my experiments, that including a spark-gap *seems to* add power to a circuit.

I've just been pulsing DC from a battery into an ignition coil, and using the HV output... Sometimes I use my bench power supply - but the big electric fields tend to mess it up.

For example - a neon bulb, or a normal incandescent bulb, will give out (much) more light  when there's a spark-gap, as opposed to being directly connected to the HV terminal.

I realise this is because the load is then reflected directly back to the power supply during the charge cycle - etc. So the spark gap is acting as an essential switch.

However, I felt there was more to it - and I looked into Ed Gray's tube. Very interesting. Here are some links I'd like to add to the thread:

 - Electron Avalanche: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche
 - Townsend Discharge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townsend_discharge
 - Pat Flanagan's Electron Field Generator: http://energy21.freeservers.com/electroncasc.htm

Maybe saving the best for last:

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipactor_effect

"The multipactor effect is a phenomenon in radio frequency (RF) amplifier vacuum tubes and waveguides, where, under certain conditions, secondary electron emission in resonance with an alternating electric field leads to exponential electron multiplication, possibly damaging and even destroying the RF device."

Is this not a clear route to OU? It sounds like the 'Multipactor effect" could be exactly how the Gray tube operated...

Any thoughts folks?

EDIT: "Multipactor was identified and studied in 1934 by Philo T. Farnsworth, the inventor of electronic television, who attempted to take advantage of it as an amplifier. More commonly nowadays, it has become an obstacle to be avoided for normal operation of particle accelerators, vacuum electronics, radars, satellite communication devices, and so forth. "

I would imagine that this effect actually causes a lot of current to be drawn from the power supply - and that's probably the problem...

However, maybe:
 - the 'free' electrons could come from the dielectric medium, instead of the electrodes
 - the electron avalanche could be intercepted by 'collector plates'
 - it could be timed such that the electrons just oscillate about the collector plates - instead of impacting on the electrodes.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 14, 2014, 10:45:20 AM
Not only the Gray tube...many others too.
And, Yes it is a clear route to OU and it's well known.
Mr Farnsworth spend the latter part of his life investigating this effect.
Eric P Dollard verified the effect and confirmed that there was no power loss.
A lot of info available on the subject.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 14, 2014, 12:30:33 PM
Diagram attached...
 - Perhaps the 2 grids can act as emitter & collector - as shown - due to the AC electric field.
 - In this case the 2 electrodes would be insulated - so they just provide the strong field.
 - Outer electrode could be just earthed.
 - It may not need an outer electrode - the gray tube didn't (apparently) - I don't know.

Ok, why wouldn't it work...?
 - The electrons would be repelled by the collector. (But the emitter should still emit...)
 - not sure of other reasons...

It's interesting to note that the Gray tube was - a sealed tube... Presumably to contain the ionised gas...
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 14, 2014, 12:44:01 PM
I'm not shure why would you use mercury vapour ignitrons placed 3 in parallel so it can handle 75.000 Ampere's if the conversion grids are operating on high voltage?

This can be seen in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS4zl3f1fFI

Also, I do not think these CSET's or CONVERSION grids were evacuated tubes they simply look to be placed in some neat transparent plasic housing.
Conversion means from to so this tube converts something into another thing...

Which can be seen here: http://universalpower.webs.com/gallery/Edwin%20Vincent%20Gray/index.html
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 14, 2014, 12:46:10 PM
I guess, because it's really just a fancy capacitor, taking power out could cause a drag on the driving circuit...

I'm not sure. Maybe the electron cascade would have that effect anyway - and taking the power out would remove the drag... Hmmm.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 14, 2014, 12:52:21 PM
Here is the graytube i build:
Second picture is the plasmatron i build.
Third is the PAGD tube circuit.

DP = Discharge Pack
CP = Charge Pack
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 14, 2014, 03:03:54 PM
Here is the graytube i build...

Awesome building skills Turbo. :)

I've got some bits I can use to build a tube. I might give it a go. Might read a bit more first - and see if I can understand the mechanism a bit better...

What did you find out with your experiments?

Regards, Tim
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 14, 2014, 04:07:09 PM
Thanks Tim.

Make sure you know what your doing/building make sure you know it will do close as possible to what you want it to do.
Do not 'just build' things without any concept behind it, this is the road to discovery but also to more failures, you need to be specific in the operating mechanism or concept behind it that you try to target with your build to keep material cost and time spend low.

I found that all metal is charged up to a certain voltage because it exists in the earth's electric field.
It either has a positive, or negative charge in respect to either Earth's ground and or the top layer of the ionosphere.
Normally you do not notice this because all things around you are in a state of natural equilibrium.

When you hit the metal, or wire with a high voltage charge, you create a potential difference between the metal/wire and the environmental potential , or sky voltage, that surrounds the metal.
This is the moment the initial charge becomes visible because it get's added up to or distracts from the total sum depending on the polarities involved and or the poynts of reference.
Nature sees this man made imbalance in potential, and will give rise to a re-balancing flux, to restore the equilibrium condition.
This re-balancing flux can be loaded to create current in a secondary circuit, Yet this natural response was generated by potential only, meaning voltage, only, which is realtively cheap.

Lightning is a good example of this exact mechanism, voltage builds up to a certain threshold, and when it goes above this threshold a lightning strike will be the result.
The only difference is that in the case of a lightning strike a short is created, and there is current flow, and in the case of the high voltage only charge example above, it is a manually triggered event in stead of a result from a voltage threshold.
Besides the re-balancing flux, a portion of the energy that exists in the form of a static DC charge between the ionosphere and ground, get's converted into alternating radio waves, that exist in the electromagnetic part of the earths field.
The schumann Resonance are the result of this, and the frequencies are directly related to the dimensions involved.

I found that when you hit the already charged metal with a high voltage source, two things happen.
1. you get a natural response that can be loaded, and which settles things down again so that the charge on the metal will again be equal to the charge of the local evinronment, and 2. if you do this fast enough, and at a frequency or a division or harmonic component that is related to the resonant frequency of the metal/wire, or wavelength of the wire that is being charged up, or for example extracted by a tuned tank circuit nearby, and he who sits in darkness shall see a bright light.
So two cases are at work one namely DC high voltage source with DC pulses fast enough to 'pull open and keep open the sink' as Tesla calls it, and establish close to continous flow voltage in, current out, where the re-balancing flux is forced to flow through the load before allowed to flow back ,or, the second case where you go for the AC result, arteficial creation of Schumann Resonance on steroids, i mean of high a frequency, with the rule the higher the frequency, the smaller the receiver, the shorter the wire and etc.
In the first case the electric field of the earth is used to create a DC current in a load, and in the second case you are converting energy from the earth's electric field (DC) into radiowaves in the earth's electromagnetic field (AC).
Both things happen at the same time but it depends on how fast you are switching pulse it only once to stay on the DC to DC side and/or pulse it in an alternating fashion close to or at the target wavelength of the wire to max out the AC conversion component.
I am not sure how to explain it otherwise hope you can make some good use off of it.

One more thing,
The textbooks never take into account the external electric field, or Pre-Charge that already exists on the wire or metal and this is where people fail to understand or explain the principle.
Make sure not te get discouraged by the textbook know it all's instead keep an open mind and go see what's out there.
There is an awefull lot of voltage available and you get the biggest response, by creating the largest re-balancing flux, so, by using a voltage as high as possible but be carefull please.

You can click my website button for a good example.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 14, 2014, 07:42:24 PM
Hi Turbo,
  I find building things is always worthwhile - even if, i don't get it right... And while it's a good idea to know what you're testing - that can evolve...

I've built tube mk 1 - images attached.
 - central HV electrode is a welding rod
 - LV electrode is a bolt in the blue lid
 - supports for mesh are correx
 - mesh is aluminium modelling mesh
 - tube is from an old drain clearing set.

I'll be running it from a car coil, 12v battery (maybe 2 for 24v), signal generator & a fast solid-state-relay

I've tried enclosing a spark in a coil, and in a tinfoil capacitor - with interesting results... I get high voltages, with a little current. There is notable resonance with both - but the frequency is very high - much faster than I could easily power with my driver...

This design - with the mesh - allows for movement of ions / electrons between the 2 meshes. So I'll be hoping to see more current. I'd like to try to get electron cascades between the meshes - but I'll likely have to study, and make a new power supply... At least I'll learn stuff - I always do. Eventually.

I'll have to read your last post a couple more times i think. Interesting ideas. :)
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 14, 2014, 08:09:33 PM
Good luck with that  :)

If you go above 25kV make sure to monitor X-Ray generation.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Jeg on January 14, 2014, 08:19:27 PM
Great job guys! Does anyone know what is the role of this carbon resistor on the discharge path? Is it the same like the ones that we use in electrical machinery like drills?

 
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 14, 2014, 08:44:55 PM
The return resistor is to limit the current. I think that's what the patent says.

The patent doesn't describe the tube in much detail at all...
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: wings on January 14, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
The return resistor is to limit the current. I think that's what the patent says.

The patent doesn't describe the tube in much detail at all...

suggest to see :
http://www.overunity.com/1965/correas-pagd-in-action/msg22994/#msg22994 (http://www.overunity.com/1965/correas-pagd-in-action/msg22994/#msg22994)

http://www.overunity.com/3628/farnsworth-fusor-and-multipactor/msg60125/#msg60125 (http://www.overunity.com/3628/farnsworth-fusor-and-multipactor/msg60125/#msg60125)
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 14, 2014, 09:01:34 PM
Good luck with that  :)

If you go above 25kV make sure to monitor X-Ray generation.

Thanks :)

I just bought a 'Soeks Defender' - geiger counter. I'm quite concerned about the Fukushima situation. Not to mention all the other reactors around the world that are made from cardboard & sticky tape... It'd be ironic if i fried myself...

I've also been thinking about ionisation in the tube - in general...
 - I've just bought some UV LEDs to try in the tube - see if it helps...
 - I've made sure the ionised air from the spark can get to the collectors
 - I've ordered a uranium pottery sample - to test the Soeks. I might stick that in the tube too. lol.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 14, 2014, 10:14:00 PM
suggest to see...

Thanks Wings, interesting links :)
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 15, 2014, 07:34:18 AM
I think the patent is very clear about the tube:

1. An electrical conversion switching element tube comprising:
a closed insulative housing (50);
a first low-voltage anode (32) mounted internally to said housing and extending internally to an electrical discharge area (62), said first anode adapted to be connected to a voltage source external to the housing;
a second high-voltage anode (12) mounted internally to said housing and extending internally to said electrical discharge area (62), said second anode also being adapted to be connected to a voltage source external to the housing;
electrically conductive means (34b) positioned internally within said housing and extending circumferentially about said second anode while being directly exposed thereto but not conductively connected thereto but, rather, spaced therefrom for receiving an electrostatic charge from the second anode when a discharge current is triggered across said discharge area between said first and second anodes, said charge receiving electrically conductive means also being internally mounted to said housing; and
an output terminal (60) communicating with said charge receiving electrically conductive means, said terminal adapted to be connected to an inductive load externally of said housing.
2. An electrical conversion switching element tube as claimed in claim 1, including a resistive element (30) in series with said first anode.
3. An electrical conversion switching element tube as claimed in claim 1 wherein:
said charge receiving electrically conductive means is tubularly shaped.
4. An electrical conversion switching element tube as claimed in claim 3, including
a second tubularly shaped charge receiving electrically conductive means (34a) positioned circumferentially about said first mentioned charge receiving electrically conductive means.

http://www.google.com/patents/US4661747

Also after the calculations were done it was said that a battery that would drive the load normally for 4 minutes would drive the same load in a Gray system for 25 minutes because the Gray system collectes and stores back in the battery, the Back EMF from the load.
I say this because it indicates that this system is more efficient then regular not BEMF collecting setups, and Gray never speakes of a situation whereas this system can provide overunity or energy forever nor is it a claimed overunity mechanism.
It's just a very efficient way of doing things by capturing and storing/ recycling otherwise wasted energy.

The situation i described yesterday does not apply to the GRay tube that i build, and tested, i was only trying to point you in a certain direction.

You can click my website button for an example of the mechanism i was describing.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: bajac on January 15, 2014, 01:36:27 PM
Hi guys,
This is my first post in this thread. I really like it!
Couple years ago I published two articles about the theory of operation of the Gray's device. I posted it in this website, see this link: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2F12328%2Fradiant-electriciy-generated-with-spark-gaps-and-induction-coils-theory%2Fdlattach%2Fattach%2F98810%2F&ei=633WUskchLOwBOrngIgE&usg=AFQjCNEilL99FB926B3loVIpMbJnHaKW2Q&bvm=bv.59378465,d.cWc (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2F12328%2Fradiant-electriciy-generated-with-spark-gaps-and-induction-coils-theory%2Fdlattach%2Fattach%2F98810%2F&ei=633WUskchLOwBOrngIgE&usg=AFQjCNEilL99FB926B3loVIpMbJnHaKW2Q&bvm=bv.59378465,d.cWc)
I also posted it in this forum: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11291-tesla-father-tpu-part-2-a.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11291-tesla-father-tpu-part-2-a.html)
What I am proposing is kind of different from what you have read before. I did not like the explanations that make no sense. Just understand that it is a proposition only. But it makes a lot of sense to me. It addresses many of the questions that you have on this topic. For example, it explains in a logical manner the function of each component, including the carbon element.
Later on I will explain the similarities that I see between the devices of Gray and Tesla.
Please, let me know what you think.
Bajac
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 15, 2014, 01:39:08 PM
I think the patent is very clear about the tube:

It doesn't give details of:
 - internal gasses or pressure of the tube
 - dimensions
 - materials
 - or most importantly: the operating principle

So I'd have to disagree.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 15, 2014, 01:50:09 PM
Then why are you building ?  :)
I said as close as possible for a reason...this is where imagination and skill comes into play.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2014, 01:54:02 PM
Turbo
quote
""You can click my website button for a good example.""
-----------
Sir could you post a link [one link on previous page does not go thru]
 
thx
Chet
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 15, 2014, 02:30:29 PM
Chet, it's the little globe icon under my profile name.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2014, 03:20:15 PM
Thank you
I see the link goes here

http://www.youtube.com/user/mrdegare?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/mrdegare?feature=watch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNDJcyLBf0c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNDJcyLBf0c)
 
Seems quite a simple claim ,and demands the respect of your years of hard work and research.
 
Thank you
Chet
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: wings on January 15, 2014, 03:30:17 PM
Chet, it's the little globe icon under my profile name.
great informations :)
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 15, 2014, 03:40:21 PM
Thanks guy's  :)
Hope to make this a better world.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2014, 03:52:52 PM
Turbo
"A better world"
Our only motivation, and the best one !!
 
This quote slapped me in the face from your post # 13 on this thread
""
Turbo
Quote
I found that when you hit the already charged metal with a high voltage source, two things happen.
1. you get a natural response that can be loaded, and which settles things down again so that the charge on the metal will again be equal to the charge of the local evinronment, and 2. if you do this fast enough, and at a frequency or a division or harmonic component that is related to the resonant frequency of the metal/wire, or wavelength of the wire that is being charged up, or for example extracted by a tuned tank circuit nearby, and he who sits in darkness shall see a bright light""
end quote
--------------------------
 
Are we taliking NMR - NAR Here whilst the environment responds in a most productive way?
 
I certainly hope so..........
Thx
Chet
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Grumage on January 15, 2014, 04:04:03 PM
Thanks guy's  :)
Hope to make this a better world.

Dear Turbo.

With regard to the video.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNDJcyLBf0c

Does the pancake coil have any bearing on your experiment ??

Cheers Grum.

Addendum. Sorry turbo !! I have just watched an earlier video and realised that the Pancake coil is your receiver !!  :-[
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 15, 2014, 05:28:05 PM
Turbo
"A better world"
Our only motivation, and the best one !!
 
This quote slapped me in the face from your post # 13 on this thread
""
Turbo
Quote
I found that when you hit the already charged metal with a high voltage source, two things happen.
1. you get a natural response that can be loaded, and which settles things down again so that the charge on the metal will again be equal to the charge of the local evinronment, and 2. if you do this fast enough, and at a frequency or a division or harmonic component that is related to the resonant frequency of the metal/wire, or wavelength of the wire that is being charged up, or for example extracted by a tuned tank circuit nearby, and he who sits in darkness shall see a bright light""
end quote
--------------------------
 
Are we taliking NMR - NAR Here whilst the environment responds in a most productive way?
 
I certainly hope so..........
Thx
Chet

Chet,

Not directly, this is about using the available voltage from the earth's electric field, to create current, by forcing the natural re-balancing flux to flow through the load , or to convert energy from the earth's electric field into radiowaves in the electromagnetic field of the earth.
I hope you noticed the simplicity of the very first experiment i presented.
Don't make things too complicated, the simplest solution is the best solution, most of the times.
All i can say is that if you want to know more you have to do these experiments yourself, simply because, to he who has, more shall be given.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2014, 05:35:40 PM
Turbo
That sounded so nice I had to write it Twice [or again]

@Turbo  Quote
""Not directly, this is about using the available voltage from the earth's electric field, to create current, by forcing the natural re-balancing flux to flow through the load
end quote""
-------------------------------------
And yes I do understand the work ethic and also appreciate that part.
 
thanks for lighting this thread up as well as our interest!
 
Chet K
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 15, 2014, 06:24:30 PM
You can click my website button for an example of the mechanism i was describing.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNDJcyLBf0c)

Hi Turbo,
  the video you link to- can you explain what's going on there please?

I.e. what's the setup - presumably the coil in the background is related?

Thanks

EDIT:
I found this vid of yours which explains:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ze8cVIqSkQ
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Turbo on January 15, 2014, 06:39:55 PM
It's a small portion of another larger video in which the circuit is shown.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 15, 2014, 07:05:38 PM
It's a small portion of another larger video in which the circuit is shown.

Hi Turbo,
  it would have been nice if you'd just posted a link to the full video - rather than expecting people to find it for themselves... :(

Having had my little moan, I have to say I found both these vids of yours pretty good: :)

 - Marco's Dancing Magnets (I like this one a lot!) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XghAn9olnsI
 - Ion Wind - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNwFKUm9xUs

How did your multipactor work out?

Regards, Tim
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 15, 2014, 07:22:28 PM
I've had a play with the tube I made... It works almost exactly as I thought it would under my test conditions...

 - The 2 mesh 'collectors' experience capacitive coupling with the electrodes.
 - The output is a bit less than with solid conductors
 - Adding the outside earthed electrode does increase the voltage difference between the 2 collectors
 - There's no noticable excess current coming from any ionisation, but then there shouldn't be...

I got the speed of sparking up to about 900Hz, and I think I can get it up to maybe 5KHz with some tuning & more power. Using about 40 watts ATM...

I've been reading about Farnsworth & Multipactors, from the links Wings posted. What a totally awesome bloke he was. I'm humbled by his genius. Wow.
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: wings on January 16, 2014, 06:51:30 AM
 :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJFCnAA5oVQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJFCnAA5oVQ)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aY2vzmwfEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aY2vzmwfEs)



original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS4zl3f1fFI&list=FLjGRhW_qGi4sZZZG4wXhIgw&feature=mh_lolz
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 16, 2014, 11:51:45 AM
Thanks Wings, good links.

I think I need to try the carbon resistor in the tube... Will see what I can find...

Here's a website with loads of cool home experiments - including making CR tubes...
http://www.teralab.co.uk/Glass_Blowing/CRT_A/CRT_A_Page1.htm

Edit: And another gray tube replication:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1aCmHL2xL8
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: wings on January 16, 2014, 11:31:05 PM
Thanks Wings, good links.

I think I need to try the carbon resistor in the tube... Will see what I can find...

Here's a website with loads of cool home experiments - including making CR tubes...
http://www.teralab.co.uk/Glass_Blowing/CRT_A/CRT_A_Page1.htm (http://www.teralab.co.uk/Glass_Blowing/CRT_A/CRT_A_Page1.htm)

Edit: And another gray tube replication:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1aCmHL2xL8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1aCmHL2xL8)

during your test try to experiment different material
http://www.upv.es/satelite/trabajos/Grupo9_99.00/multipac.htm#prin (http://www.upv.es/satelite/trabajos/Grupo9_99.00/multipac.htm#prin)
....because the effect is different
....probably the multipactor effect is also used by Dr.Schwartz in his ERR Fluxgenerator where plate of Aluminum and Bismuth


 see US2739084 [/size]are interconnected  with coils
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:ERR_Fluxgenerator_by_Noah's_Ark_Research_Foundation (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:ERR_Fluxgenerator_by_Noah's_Ark_Research_Foundation)
ADDED
http://www.overunity.com/7842/selfrunning-3-kwatts-err-unit-powering-3-x-800-watt-lamps/#.UtjFsGSwbVM (http://www.overunity.com/7842/selfrunning-3-kwatts-err-unit-powering-3-x-800-watt-lamps/#.UtjFsGSwbVM)
there is an ESA program that predict multipactor effect
http://multipactor.esa.int/ (http://multipactor.esa.int/)
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: wings on January 17, 2014, 06:46:45 AM
:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJFCnAA5oVQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJFCnAA5oVQ)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aY2vzmwfEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aY2vzmwfEs)



original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS4zl3f1fFI&list=FLjGRhW_qGi4sZZZG4wXhIgw&feature=mh_lolz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS4zl3f1fFI&list=FLjGRhW_qGi4sZZZG4wXhIgw&feature=mh_lolz)

the spike converter ?
http://www.overunity.com/7669/method-for-converting-hv-static-into-usable-low-voltage-power/msg213893/#msg213893 (http://www.overunity.com/7669/method-for-converting-hv-static-into-usable-low-voltage-power/msg213893/#msg213893)
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 17, 2014, 08:56:46 PM
I spent some time reading about the Correas, and Pavel Imris again... The Correas work with plasma is similar to many others so I wanted to try something out...

So, I've been playing aroung using a 70w Metal Halide bulb - which is an arc bulb - as a spark gap. It's pretty cool.

Using the car ignition coil to drive it:
 - plasma will form with under 1w of input power.
 - If I put a capacitor in parallel - it pulses nicely as the cap charges & discharges.
 - Above 2-3w input, with the cap, a permanent plasma forms.
 - As the power goes up - you can see the plasma rotating about the axis - it spins fast...

There are some interesting effects - but nothing overtly OU...

However, I have a HPS (high pressure sodium) bulb i bought for testing, and that has given me some interesting results - but I ran out of time... Will do more tomorrow... The HPS bulb:
 1) Is pressurised to about 200 Torr (EDIT- Um, that's just 1/4 atmospheric pressure...)
 2) Gave me one massive 'radiant event'. It's resistance is high - the capacitor built up a big charge - and when it dumped it thru the bulb - it was quite exciting... But i now have shorting problems at the connector...
 3) Produces a huge electric field when it's powered - so much it stops the TV from working (10 feet away)

So - plenty more fun to be had... :)

Tim
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 17, 2014, 09:03:17 PM
Just a note - the Solid State Relay I'm using is a Teledyne 603-3 - man those things are fantastic. 250v 5A DC, and up to 32KHz switching speed... Another worthwhile ebay bargain...!

I think I may have burned it out - good job I have a few spares - but sometimes they just need a rest, it may be ok tomorrow...
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tim123 on January 18, 2014, 11:07:23 AM
Another thing I tested yesterday was: Placing the pulsing bulb (70w halide) on a ferrite-cored coil, and also inside a larger coil.

Interestingly - I was able to get usable power out of the coils - enough to just light my test LEDs (a few milliwatts i'd guess)...

It's similar to having a spark gap inside an (air-cored) coil - I get a little bit of power out. The voltages are high - but the power is low. I'm not sure if it's an inductive or electrostatic effect - maybe a bit of both?
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: wings on January 29, 2014, 07:54:05 AM
may be interesting Aron Mukarami motor test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nxsoze9CZ9E
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: AlienGrey on November 11, 2017, 12:52:46 AM
If any one is interested.
I did find an interesting old video that goes much deeper on this subject concerning
how to generate drive to the tube in question as Tesla reports in one of his reports
that he could not attain zero point energy from his Tesla coil.

please feel free to comment if any one is interested

regards AG
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tinman on November 11, 2017, 03:18:02 PM
If any one is interested.
I did find an interesting old video that goes much deeper on this subject concerning
how to generate drive to the tube in question as Tesla reports in one of his reports
that he could not attain zero point energy from his Tesla coil.

please feel free to comment if any one is interested

regards AG

AG

Do you have a clear schematic for the tube driver circuit,and the tube it self.


Cheers
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: forest on November 11, 2017, 03:56:16 PM
So? Where is that video ?  ???
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: AlienGrey on November 13, 2017, 01:00:04 PM
So? Where is that video ?  ???
sort of, watch this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib0nViW9z70

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=e+v+grey+circuit&client=firefox-b&dcr=0&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=AI7kvO3hzLrEaM%253A%252CINb3ImRqHeOvfM%252C_&usg=__Tr56n7F28191dTGFQCo4R5MLGEM%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiM6Of9xLLXAhVCAsAKHQEaAZ8Q9QEIMTAB#imgrc=AI7kvO3hzLrEaM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUemx2ZabOw&list=PLukRhLVuz1rkYkKA6J7mkv--YliAulFFx

enjoy

Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Belfior on November 14, 2017, 01:37:19 PM
Have you read Lindemann's book on free energy and cold electricity?

http://www.teslasociety.ch/info/NTV_2011/free.pdf

I think he explains Tesla's disruptive discharge quite well and says that Gray's invention is just mirroring that. When the 50-100us impulse is fed through the spark gap a longitudinal wave propagates perpendicular to the current. This means it will hit the grid surfaces. Tesla said this would change the "voltage only" pulse to manifest as charge on metal surfaces.

I'm just wondering how big the voltage must the for this supercharging effect to manifest? Is the gap enough to keep the impulse unidirectional pulse train? Add high voltage diode maybe?
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: tinman on November 14, 2017, 01:50:17 PM
Have you read Lindemann's book on free energy and cold electricity?

http://www.teslasociety.ch/info/NTV_2011/free.pdf

I think he explains Tesla's disruptive discharge quite well and says that Gray's invention is just mirroring that. When the 50-100us impulse is fed through the spark gap a longitudinal wave propagates perpendicular to the current. This means it will hit the grid surfaces. Tesla said this would change the "voltage only" pulse to manifest as charge on metal surfaces.

I'm just wondering how big the voltage must the for this supercharging effect to manifest? Is the gap enough to keep the impulse unidirectional pulse train? Add high voltage diode maybe?

It is truly amazing that Peter has all this info about free energy machine's,and yet,has not been able to build a single device.


Brad
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Belfior on November 14, 2017, 02:06:33 PM
It is truly amazing that Peter has all this info about free energy machine's,and yet,has not been able to build a single device.


Brad

Yeah I do give him credit for a long career in the field of free energy, but he is just showcasing plasma injection systems in every youtube video. If Gray's machine is so simple, then where the fuck is the replica?

He has not even put out a simple schematic on how to produce these Tesla's unidirectional impulses. If they are so simple to produce we should have DIY kits all over the place
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: forest on November 14, 2017, 11:15:34 PM
It's sad how the internet is full of crap yet the most important topics are hidden under the mystic statements like unidirectional pulse :-(
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: TinselKoala on November 15, 2017, 03:36:48 AM
Actually it's not that hard to understand, or mystical. The "secret" is to arrange your L, C and R values such that all the power in the impulse is dropped into the load (the "R") in exactly the first one-half-cycle of the impulse (critical damping). This is to distinguish it from the underdamped High-Q case where a long ringdown of many cycles occurs, in which a little power is dropped into the load on each cycle until it is all dissipated over a long time. And also to distinguish it from the overdamped case in which a lot of power is dissipated and wasted in less than a half-cycle and the voltage never rises to a decent peak.
The critically damped case is considered unidirectional (DC) because all the action happens in the first half-cycle and no voltage or current reversal happens.
The disruptive discharge of Tesla's patents is so intense that much care must be taken in constructing the transformer to prevent internal breakdown. Somewhere on my shelf I have detailed instructions for building such a disruptive discharge transformer. It's a lot of trouble, much harder than making an ordinary Tesla coil (which is a high-Q, underdamped, quarter wave air-core resonator operating in HV AC RF mode). While the underlying principles are the same, the actual implementation of the disruptive discharge device in hardware is quite different.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/images/oscda12.gif (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/images/oscda12.gif)
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Low-Q on November 15, 2017, 12:42:28 PM
sort of, watch this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib0nViW9z70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib0nViW9z70)

enjoy
Which pixel is the speaker? Not to mention the text presented, LOL ;D
Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: AlienGrey on November 15, 2017, 03:33:25 PM
Mr Tinsel  what does Linderman say Tesla said, so where does this fit and whats wrong before we do any experimentation  ( in exactly the first one-half-cycle of the impulse (critical damping). As far as i see it the 2nd half is ZERO.
perhaps they should all Watch the video's again !

You a clever man and an experimenter, have you tried to produce 'cold electricity' ?
out of your pile of video's can you point me to one that does ?

Also have you tied to produce 'pulse EHT DC with out the next cycle wiping out any back emf ?
again can you show me the video and any info you have on the phenomena.

And the third experiment is striping the 'electrons' and just leaving whatever is left have you tried
to reproduce that experiment ?

Also any chance you can share this with me 'please'
The disruptive discharge of Tesla's patents is so intense that much care must be taken in constructing the transformer to prevent internal breakdown. Somewhere on my shelf I have detailed instructions for building such a disruptive discharge transformer. It's a lot of trouble, much harder than making an ordinary Tesla coil (which is a high-Q, underdamped, quarter wave air-core resonator operating in HV AC RF mode). While the underlying principles are the same, the actual implementation of the disruptive discharge device in hardware is quite different.

YES! ;D

All the best AG

Ps any chance we can solve this problem before America destroys the planet ? ;)

Title: Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
Post by: Belfior on November 15, 2017, 03:52:33 PM

Ps any chance we can solve this problem before America destroys the planet ? ;)


Well it is not just America, but all the industrial powers that think that production, consuming and profits is the way to go and all this nonsense about pollution is just hippies that smoked too much. You can ask people in Delhi if they would like a clean energy source...