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Author Topic: Ed Gray's Magic Tube  (Read 26870 times)

Offline Zarko

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Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« on: August 25, 2010, 03:08:17 AM »
Howdy.

It seems that everyone's always talking about Ed Gray's magic technology.  But no one ever actually says how it works.  Well, I've known the basic principle since back in 97 when I just drew it out, looked at it, and saw what it does.  It's just like a Van deGraaff generator.  Look at my drawing and see what you think.

Zar

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Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« on: August 25, 2010, 03:08:17 AM »

Offline Zarko

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2010, 11:11:52 PM »
Reading Edwin's patents he says the grids can be different sizes for different voltages.  This is because the electrostatic coupling region around the arc only goes out so far with a certain voltage.  If the grid is too big just use a third electrode from the end of the grid down towards the spark gap.  The POSITIVE end of the gap.

O'Zark

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Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2010, 12:51:51 AM »
WOW!
i was always thinking it had to do with the capacitance between the grids.
Thats why DC is important a capacitor blocks DC so if there is any RF or AC like component between those grids it will simply carry the high voltage over to them making them very dangerous  :o

I think you missing quite alot about Mr Gray's system.
Things might not be so easy as they seem.
They go much further then a simple static burst or discharge.

Offline Zarko

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2010, 01:35:11 AM »
There IS a lot more to Gray's technology than just the Conversion Tube.  There's also energy coming from the other direction, from the reverse biased diode.  I may put up a video showing a single wire 'dielectric energy' effect from that point - going to the plastic blocks in the motor.  But remember that the pulses from the grid HAVE to be positive to charge the recovery capacitor.

Z


Offline Zarko

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2010, 09:44:24 PM »
Gray always used blocks of plastic in his motors.  He also used the plastic in his electrostatic generator.  Anyone who builds a HV pulse motor, without including this plastic and the energy associated with charging it, does not have an E.V. Gray motor replication.

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2010, 09:44:24 PM »
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Offline Zarko

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 05:07:41 PM »
You gotta give Edwin Gray credit for having some brains.  He built an Electrical Conversion Tube which transformed energy in a high voltage spark into pure potential.  Having heard of Tesla's work with super short unidirectional pulses, Edwin knew that this potential will travel through a circuit almost instantly, producing no heat at all.  As long as the pulses were short enough.  So Gray made the grid in his Tube short enough for the electricity to be cold, since the length of the grid determines the discharge time period.  If he needed more power in the pulses, he just added more mass to the grid by making it thicker.  This provided more free charge carriers in the metal, to be shorted to the central conductor by the electrostatic energy around the arc.  And he already knew more than most people: how to split the positive into two branches of the circuit, sending an equal amount of energy to each coil.

But he didn't stop there.  It is a measure of Edwin Gray's genius that he instinctively knew that the potential to the coils would have to increase as they moved apart, to ensure a constant torque.  So he added more grids to his Tube.  The closest grid to the center would have the most voltage, since it had the smallest surface area for a given amount of charge.  Half turn inductive loops interconnecting each of the grids ensured that the grids discharged sequentially, with the outer grid having the least voltage being the first to provide its potential to the circuit.  This resulted in the stair step waveform shown in the patent as 25a and 26a in his schematic.

Some people credit Marvin Cole as the inventor of the first motor.  Cole, a mechanical engineer, was Gray's neighbor back in Prescott, Arizona--a quaint little mountain community where I also resided in '59 and '60, having moved down from Las Vegas.  (Gray was there from '59 to '61.  Then HE went TO Las Vegas.)  But it was Gray who gave the key to the motor to Cole, drawing out the concept on beer napkins after he experimented and found that the unidirectional potential from the grids resulted in an unusual amount of repulsion.  Edwin Gray was the genius behind the technology.

Offline tim123

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 10:41:04 AM »
I've noticed in my experiments, that including a spark-gap *seems to* add power to a circuit.

I've just been pulsing DC from a battery into an ignition coil, and using the HV output... Sometimes I use my bench power supply - but the big electric fields tend to mess it up.

For example - a neon bulb, or a normal incandescent bulb, will give out (much) more light  when there's a spark-gap, as opposed to being directly connected to the HV terminal.

I realise this is because the load is then reflected directly back to the power supply during the charge cycle - etc. So the spark gap is acting as an essential switch.

However, I felt there was more to it - and I looked into Ed Gray's tube. Very interesting. Here are some links I'd like to add to the thread:

 - Electron Avalanche: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche
 - Townsend Discharge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townsend_discharge
 - Pat Flanagan's Electron Field Generator: http://energy21.freeservers.com/electroncasc.htm

Maybe saving the best for last:

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipactor_effect

"The multipactor effect is a phenomenon in radio frequency (RF) amplifier vacuum tubes and waveguides, where, under certain conditions, secondary electron emission in resonance with an alternating electric field leads to exponential electron multiplication, possibly damaging and even destroying the RF device."

Is this not a clear route to OU? It sounds like the 'Multipactor effect" could be exactly how the Gray tube operated...

Any thoughts folks?

EDIT: "Multipactor was identified and studied in 1934 by Philo T. Farnsworth, the inventor of electronic television, who attempted to take advantage of it as an amplifier. More commonly nowadays, it has become an obstacle to be avoided for normal operation of particle accelerators, vacuum electronics, radars, satellite communication devices, and so forth. "

I would imagine that this effect actually causes a lot of current to be drawn from the power supply - and that's probably the problem...

However, maybe:
 - the 'free' electrons could come from the dielectric medium, instead of the electrodes
 - the electron avalanche could be intercepted by 'collector plates'
 - it could be timed such that the electrons just oscillate about the collector plates - instead of impacting on the electrodes.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 10:41:04 AM »
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Offline Turbo

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 10:45:20 AM »
Not only the Gray tube...many others too.
And, Yes it is a clear route to OU and it's well known.
Mr Farnsworth spend the latter part of his life investigating this effect.
Eric P Dollard verified the effect and confirmed that there was no power loss.
A lot of info available on the subject.

Offline tim123

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2014, 12:30:33 PM »
Diagram attached...
 - Perhaps the 2 grids can act as emitter & collector - as shown - due to the AC electric field.
 - In this case the 2 electrodes would be insulated - so they just provide the strong field.
 - Outer electrode could be just earthed.
 - It may not need an outer electrode - the gray tube didn't (apparently) - I don't know.

Ok, why wouldn't it work...?
 - The electrons would be repelled by the collector. (But the emitter should still emit...)
 - not sure of other reasons...

It's interesting to note that the Gray tube was - a sealed tube... Presumably to contain the ionised gas...

Offline Turbo

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 12:44:01 PM »
I'm not shure why would you use mercury vapour ignitrons placed 3 in parallel so it can handle 75.000 Ampere's if the conversion grids are operating on high voltage?

This can be seen in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS4zl3f1fFI

Also, I do not think these CSET's or CONVERSION grids were evacuated tubes they simply look to be placed in some neat transparent plasic housing.
Conversion means from to so this tube converts something into another thing...

Which can be seen here: http://universalpower.webs.com/gallery/Edwin%20Vincent%20Gray/index.html

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 12:44:01 PM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 12:46:10 PM »
I guess, because it's really just a fancy capacitor, taking power out could cause a drag on the driving circuit...

I'm not sure. Maybe the electron cascade would have that effect anyway - and taking the power out would remove the drag... Hmmm.

Offline Turbo

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2014, 12:52:21 PM »
Here is the graytube i build:
Second picture is the plasmatron i build.
Third is the PAGD tube circuit.

DP = Discharge Pack
CP = Charge Pack


Offline tim123

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2014, 03:03:54 PM »
Here is the graytube i build...

Awesome building skills Turbo. :)

I've got some bits I can use to build a tube. I might give it a go. Might read a bit more first - and see if I can understand the mechanism a bit better...

What did you find out with your experiments?

Regards, Tim

Offline Turbo

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2014, 04:07:09 PM »
Thanks Tim.

Make sure you know what your doing/building make sure you know it will do close as possible to what you want it to do.
Do not 'just build' things without any concept behind it, this is the road to discovery but also to more failures, you need to be specific in the operating mechanism or concept behind it that you try to target with your build to keep material cost and time spend low.

I found that all metal is charged up to a certain voltage because it exists in the earth's electric field.
It either has a positive, or negative charge in respect to either Earth's ground and or the top layer of the ionosphere.
Normally you do not notice this because all things around you are in a state of natural equilibrium.

When you hit the metal, or wire with a high voltage charge, you create a potential difference between the metal/wire and the environmental potential , or sky voltage, that surrounds the metal.
This is the moment the initial charge becomes visible because it get's added up to or distracts from the total sum depending on the polarities involved and or the poynts of reference.
Nature sees this man made imbalance in potential, and will give rise to a re-balancing flux, to restore the equilibrium condition.
This re-balancing flux can be loaded to create current in a secondary circuit, Yet this natural response was generated by potential only, meaning voltage, only, which is realtively cheap.

Lightning is a good example of this exact mechanism, voltage builds up to a certain threshold, and when it goes above this threshold a lightning strike will be the result.
The only difference is that in the case of a lightning strike a short is created, and there is current flow, and in the case of the high voltage only charge example above, it is a manually triggered event in stead of a result from a voltage threshold.
Besides the re-balancing flux, a portion of the energy that exists in the form of a static DC charge between the ionosphere and ground, get's converted into alternating radio waves, that exist in the electromagnetic part of the earths field.
The schumann Resonance are the result of this, and the frequencies are directly related to the dimensions involved.

I found that when you hit the already charged metal with a high voltage source, two things happen.
1. you get a natural response that can be loaded, and which settles things down again so that the charge on the metal will again be equal to the charge of the local evinronment, and 2. if you do this fast enough, and at a frequency or a division or harmonic component that is related to the resonant frequency of the metal/wire, or wavelength of the wire that is being charged up, or for example extracted by a tuned tank circuit nearby, and he who sits in darkness shall see a bright light.
So two cases are at work one namely DC high voltage source with DC pulses fast enough to 'pull open and keep open the sink' as Tesla calls it, and establish close to continous flow voltage in, current out, where the re-balancing flux is forced to flow through the load before allowed to flow back ,or, the second case where you go for the AC result, arteficial creation of Schumann Resonance on steroids, i mean of high a frequency, with the rule the higher the frequency, the smaller the receiver, the shorter the wire and etc.
In the first case the electric field of the earth is used to create a DC current in a load, and in the second case you are converting energy from the earth's electric field (DC) into radiowaves in the earth's electromagnetic field (AC).
Both things happen at the same time but it depends on how fast you are switching pulse it only once to stay on the DC to DC side and/or pulse it in an alternating fashion close to or at the target wavelength of the wire to max out the AC conversion component.
I am not sure how to explain it otherwise hope you can make some good use off of it.

One more thing,
The textbooks never take into account the external electric field, or Pre-Charge that already exists on the wire or metal and this is where people fail to understand or explain the principle.
Make sure not te get discouraged by the textbook know it all's instead keep an open mind and go see what's out there.
There is an awefull lot of voltage available and you get the biggest response, by creating the largest re-balancing flux, so, by using a voltage as high as possible but be carefull please.

You can click my website button for a good example.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline tim123

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Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 07:42:24 PM »
Hi Turbo,
  I find building things is always worthwhile - even if, i don't get it right... And while it's a good idea to know what you're testing - that can evolve...

I've built tube mk 1 - images attached.
 - central HV electrode is a welding rod
 - LV electrode is a bolt in the blue lid
 - supports for mesh are correx
 - mesh is aluminium modelling mesh
 - tube is from an old drain clearing set.

I'll be running it from a car coil, 12v battery (maybe 2 for 24v), signal generator & a fast solid-state-relay

I've tried enclosing a spark in a coil, and in a tinfoil capacitor - with interesting results... I get high voltages, with a little current. There is notable resonance with both - but the frequency is very high - much faster than I could easily power with my driver...

This design - with the mesh - allows for movement of ions / electrons between the 2 meshes. So I'll be hoping to see more current. I'd like to try to get electron cascades between the meshes - but I'll likely have to study, and make a new power supply... At least I'll learn stuff - I always do. Eventually.

I'll have to read your last post a couple more times i think. Interesting ideas. :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ed Gray's Magic Tube
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 07:42:24 PM »

 

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