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Author Topic: Make Your Own Machine To Wind Cotton On A Bare Copper Wire for STUBBLEFIELD COIL  (Read 27406 times)

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Cotton Candy
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2010, 11:55:31 PM »
OK -gathering update
I found thread on E-bay
FIVE LARGE CONES WHITE COTTON THREAD QUILTING SERGER
Low bid US $19.99 FREE shipping
Five Large Cones of Cotton Thread for Machine Quilting.  Each of these cones is white and has 2500 meters (2750 yds.) of long staple, 40/3 ply, mercerized 100% cotton thread.  All thread is brand new, high quality and in clear shrink wrap.  Compare to retail prices of over $50.00!

Also found Pair of large Industrial Delrin 8" Pulleys US $12.00 (Steal of a deal)
 $11.00 US Postal
For Two  -  8" across x 3" wide,  groove is 1" deep.  Looks like delrin "plastic" - may not be.  This pully has been machined.  On each side is a 1.75" bearing race.
One side appears flat so I can bolt what ever plate is required.

Didn't make it to the scrap yard (50 mi. away) But I will
Gathering square tube from my own heap for frame and the like.

Jim for the wire steadier maybe thread the holder to accept large diameter nylon bolts with a hole drilled for different size wire. worry about scratching. But then you have actual experience.

Quote:
unwind one strand at a time, rolling it up on an empty spool, this takes time

Yah I got 20' Ha-ha ;D ???
Gona try ta make a better way!

So thats just a mockup but looks like you got the concept.
I like those geared motors.
Are you thinking your wheels will give for varied clearance?
 (No spring action I could discern)
Skate Board wheels might do the trick.

Lookin good Jim

FrznWtr


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Cotton Candy
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2010, 11:55:31 PM »

Offline electricme

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Re: Cotton Candy
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2010, 07:00:52 AM »
@ FrozenWater
Nice finding, well done.


Jim for the wire steadier maybe thread the holder to accept large diameter nylon bolts with a hole drilled for different size wire. worry about scratching. But then you have actual experience.

Quote:
unwind one strand at a time, rolling it up on an empty spool, this takes time

Yah I got 20' Ha-ha ;D ???
Gona try ta make a better way!

Skate Board wheels might do the trick.

Lookin good Jim

FrznWtr

This is a great idea you have about threadding the holders which guide the wires, and make separate guides drilled to accept the wire sizes, only have to remember to make the internal holes sufficiently large to accept the width of the cotton as well, and a little bit bigger to allow slippage.
If a hole is too small, the wire and cotton will jamb in the hole, then the cotton winds will just pile up into a hill.

The geared motor wheels, yep, thought about this, I bought 2 hard rubber caster mount wheels at the "reject" shop yesterday, but they need to be reduced in circumference by lathe work.
The larger the outside circumference, the faster the wire will be pulled through the machine, the slower you can do this the better up to a point though.

I have already found the speed of the rotating disks alters in RPM, it is effected by temperatures and battery volts, so I need another PWM made up to control this also, I have a few kits here, so no problems about that side of things.

I also found my drive pulley needs to be changed as it is pulling too many amps under load, no problems, it will be done.

You will find you will need to transfer some of your cotton from the large reel onto a smaller bobbin, I intend to make a high speed machine to do this similar to the methods we see on sewing machines.

A Question to you FrznWtr, what should I use to open those two  *.rtfd.zip files? I have tried pkunzip but it is complicated for me, oh if only makers of software could keep it simple to do things without all the bells and whistles that confuse people.

jim
   

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Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Oh sorry Jim

(rtfd = Thats a tex edit file on an apple)

Nylon Bolt Guide size for, into the shaft after 1st thread layer is wound on, would need to be larger.
(Also thought an plastic pipe mounted to the thread wheel center, with 3 little holes to guide the strands would be very stable.)
Maybe mount one of those sewing machine tensioner thingees between each spool and the hole
 (Uh oh I might just have made an enamy of your Misses, Jim please leave her machine alone will ya ;')  :D)

But the first one before thread is wound could be just a bit larger then wire.
The third just before draw tension wheels would have to be larger still for wire and 2 layers of thread.
(Was thinking it might be better to have the drive wheels pushing on the bare wire then pulling on the threaded wire? What do you think) Maybe Both?

Take-up spool should be driven also but with minimal pressure - I would think.
? Do you intend to drive a spooler for your take-up real?
I was thinking of something already made like a deep sea rod type (Might be spendie though) then have to have narrow deep spool. Spool Synked to spooler?

Yah the speed and sinking everything is a real chalange thats why I mentioned having a PWM on the thread wheel driver. Its more control. I'm thinking if the thing can go mabey 1/4 of what it appeared to be doing in your videos I would be real happy. So what if it takes 5-6-7 Hrs to do a roll of wire. I'm on my own deadline Right ;)

Bobbin winding just like the sewing machine right. Ya I had a thought like that.
Every step brings another problem needing another solution right. Maby an attachment on an old sewing machine, Hum ::)
Ya Know yhose Cones are made for the thread to come off at the top to a ring hung over them then to ah couple turns then the feeder arm then the tensioner?
Blast, Im gona have ta take a look at my stitcher. Got a double needle double shuttle Parachute shroud shean in the basement.
FrznWtr
oops files too large
OK I've e-mailed them to myself too change them to J-peg's
Now I'll try posting agine.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 12:10:32 PM by FrozenWaterLab »

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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By the way hears the E-bay add link for thread
It has ended but you can find more like it

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380249716884&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_631wt_810

I was woundering if the die for the colored thread would reduce the insulating quality?
Also, might it be a good idea to use 1 or 2 on each layer of polyester or nylon?
Isent the cotton going to rot out after a year or less?
Probably need 1 in each layer to wick the moisture in.
Lets see now dosn't polyester create static? Hum maybe nylon also.
I think I need help figuring this but its something worth considering right?
FrznWtr
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 12:14:56 PM by FrozenWaterLab »


Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Looking at this DRIVE BELT TENSIONER
Or something like it.
Field trip to the auto junk yard is in order
Question is can the steel wheel be replaced with a hard rubber one?
FrznWtr

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Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Went out to dig around in the back.
When I came back there was my UPS carbon delivery.
Wanted to share
(Think Copper is expensive)
Well to stay on topic I through I'd throw my treadmill motors and PWM's out also.
They are about 1 3/4 hp ea. Overkill I think But speed controllable.

I also placed my copper rods and arc carbon's
and a Non-magnetic stainless rod I'll use for testing.
I intend to get some aluminum also and I have 1" X 1' magnesium Rod's coming.
FrznWtr

Offline electricme

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@ FrozenWater,

You sure are keen about building your own Cotton Winding Machine for Stubblefield Coils, good to see, and I also see there are quite a number of folks in the back ground, looking at our ramblings, "welcome to you all also"  ;)

Ahmmmm, you betta take a look at the date of your posted photos, it's out by a month, it's still June  ;D but it's nice to see the pics of what you have there.

That's a very thick wheel, you won't have any trouble mounting your cotton reels, I'm a little concerned though, when they get up to speed, you might need disk brakes on them to slow them down in a hurry.
I think the width of them might be a problem, I relate to the distance between the 1st 3 cotton threads layed on the bare wire, to when the wire with those threads appears at the end where the 2nd cotton layer is applied.
It could be several inches between these layers, if a thread gets broken or one cotton reel comes up short during the winds, you will have a lot of unwinding to do to put it right before beginning again.

You could use a high speed motor with a soft start feature to wind from your cotton stock onto smaller reels.
Soft start meaning it starts slowly building up to speed , if it starts too quickly, the forces will snap the cotton thread.
 
That's a nice load of cotton reels, they look like overlocker ones.
Once again, well done.

jim


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Offline electricme

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Looking at this DRIVE BELT TENSIONER
Or something like it.
Field trip to the auto junk yard is in order
Question is can the steel wheel be replaced with a hard rubber one?
FrznWtr

An idea just popped into my head, look around for a rubber radiator water pipe that would be a snug fit over that fan belt tension-er, then you could use it with a smaller drive.

I am on the look out for a clear plastic tube which I want to glue on the drive shaft on my cable drawer motor, but will need to make a spring tension-er to put pressure on the drive shaft.

Actually, what we are making is very similar to the mechanism which drives the old cassette audio tapes which were setup in tape recorders and VHS video recorders.

jim

2905 = my cotton sizes, the biggie is 50,000 meters, about 150,000 feet, the smaller is what I am using right now for testing.
2998 = Wire eyelets I made to "guide" the cotton threads so they land correctly onto the bare wire.

Tomorrow will be a soldering day for me, time to make up another PWM Kitt to drive the counter rotating wheels, a fun fun fun day.


Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Hay Jim and all
Yaah I noticed the count going up on those pics also.
Blasted techy new devices. I need a 7 or 8 year old round here to properly program my camera now. >:( Sheese

Well I'm hopping my motors will have a soft start with the PWM controller.
ya know the treadmills can start very slow to begin with. I intend to use that small 3/4" drive to a large 6" or 8" to drive my maybe 4" V-belt pulley.
 I figure thethread pulleys will only be 3/8" apart so tube through bearings only 6 1/2" Tube supported by welded 1/4" Plate in center. You are right but at the price I couldn't resist. Cheapest 8" pulley I could find up here was $40

Wish I was good at CAD drawing.

Now the spool cones of thread should point to the center and not spin. The centripetal force should keep the thread on the spools unless pulled off by need of wire wrap. I think Haha
Guess I'll have to try it right.
At this point I'm not lookin for speed. I want to experiment with NS coils and I like doing my own stuff. I want to wrap both aluminum and Iron wires to try them, Maybe copper also. So when I saw your thread Jim, I was with ya all the way ;D
Well I'm into the wee hours and need some rest
Hope your day goes well.
Skip @ Frozen Water Labs

Offline electricme

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@ FrozenWater

Nylon Bolt Guide size for, into the shaft after 1st thread layer is wound on, would need to be larger.
(Also thought an plastic pipe mounted to the thread wheel center, with 3 little holes to guide the strands would be very stable.)

(Uh oh I might just have made an enamy of your Misses, Jim please leave her machine alone will ya ;')  :D)

(Was thinking it might be better to have the drive wheels pushing on the bare wire then pulling on the threaded wire? What do you think) Maybe Both?

Take-up spool should be driven also but with minimal pressure - I would think.
? Do you intend to drive a spooler for your take-up real?
I was thinking of something already made like a deep sea rod type (Might be spendie though) then have to have narrow deep spool. Spool Synked to spooler?

Yah the speed and sinking everything is a real chalange thats why I mentioned having a PWM on the thread wheel driver. Its more control. I'm thinking if the thing can go mabey 1/4 of what it appeared to be doing in your videos I would be real happy. So what if it takes 5-6-7 Hrs to do a roll of wire. I'm on my own deadline Right ;)

Every step brings another problem needing another solution right. Maby an attachment on an old sewing machine, Hum ::)

FrznWtr

Short plastic pipe with the holes drilled through would be a good idea also, pity I didn't think of that.
The Misses will be OK, don't worry about upsetting her, she got no say in the matter, probably would grunt OK though lol.
 
If you try pushing on the bare wire and it gets cought up somehow it will bunch up and kink, when it's strightened out, it will become cristaline and weak at that point, just use the pull through method, less risks.

Friction geared drive on the takeup reel is the way to go, as the gear motor can have built in "slip" by a preassure spring adjusted via a wing nut.

Everyones machine will be different, to suit themselves, I'm not worried at all, just be sure it can do the job, fast or slow, but the operator must have control of it.

jim

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Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Roger pull not push, got it.
Start work week tomorrow.
Later
FrznWtr

Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Got a chance to stop by the scrap yard on the way home from work.
they were about to close so didn't have much time but I spotted a small hydraulic disk brake. Little beat up but I can make it work if I can think where it might do some good haha Only paid a 5er for it.
My Magnesium rod came also for EB Experiments. 1" x 1'


Offline FrozenWaterLab

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I'm thinking 6 spools per disk with every other being fish line the same size as the cotton. Should alow wicking and long life.
FrznWtr

Offline Pirate88179

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I would not use the fishing line.  It will not allow the moisture to get through if it is wrapped any where near tight together.  If you wrap with all cotton, you would not need the line anyway as far as I can see.  It should be plenty strong on its own accord.

Just my 2 cents, see what Jim has to say.  Nice job on finding parts for your machine.

Bill


Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Hi Pirate
I
m thinking about the cotton rotting away after several mounths - needing to be dug up and redone.I think the cotton will wick the moisture in no matter how tight one manages to make the windings. also I think the line willhold space for that moisture.
Have to try one with and one without.
FrznWtr

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