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Author Topic: Make Your Own Machine To Wind Cotton On A Bare Copper Wire for STUBBLEFIELD COIL  (Read 27408 times)

Offline electricme

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HOW TO MAKE THE SPECIAL WIRE REQUIRED FOR THE
STUBBLEFIELD COIL by MAKING YOUR OWN MACHINE

which uses COUNTER ROTATING WHEELS.

If you cannot acquire Cotton Covered Wire from rare or cost-a-lot sources, then you could still make the wire by building your own machine to do the same thing that was done over 50 years ago.

Anyway, the machine I built works up to a fashion and still needs fine tuning, but I can wind cotton over a Bare Copper wire or Iron wire or  Stainless steel wire.



Before anyone asks, NO, I don't wind cotton insulated wire for others, the cost of materials and shipping would be far too much for me, hence the reason for this page describing how I made my own Cotton Insulated Wire Winding Machine.

Enjoy

electricme

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Offline electricme

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This afternoon I managed to wind 6 separate cotton threads around a copper wire about 26 feet long, in a cross hatch pattern.

I achieved this by having 6 spools of cotton thread, mounting 3 spools equidistant on one rotating disk, and the other three spools on the other rotating disk in the same manner.

The disks spin in opposite directions to each other, called counter rotation, as the disks spin round, a bare copper wire is then fed through the hub or middle of these disks, the wire does not rotate, only the cotton reels.

Each cotton thread has it's own special steel eyelet which keeps the thread in the exact position required.

jim


Offline Pirate88179

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Jim:

Well done my friend!  That photo of your completed wire says it all.  It looks really good.  Great idea on the counter rotating reels for the cross-hatch pattern.  I see this as a huge improvement over the regular winding in order to prevent some shifting of the insulation.  This will prevent shorts.

If you get a chance, you should link you videos of it running over here.  That was an amazing thing to see.  Even though you had described it to us in great detail, I just did not "get it" until I saw it in action.

Again, very well done sir.

Bill

Offline electricme

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Thanks Bill for your kind remarks.

I agree with you about the layering, it will prevent shorts as it won't matter which way the bare wire bends, there will always be either the lower or upper layers to stop shorts occuring.

Then again, if someone went and dropped a stubblefield coil on a sharp object, then I would expect differently.

OK, I will post up here the working machine so anyone can look at it, and when they are ready to proceed they can build their own machine to make their own cotton covered wire which they can use to make their own nathan stubblefield coil.

Mine is made from metal parts, I can see no problems if anyone who was skilled in using plastic or nylon to make their machine from that, in fact it would cut the noise down quite a bit.

The drive belt is not a proper fan belt, there was so much resistance I had to use a length of clear plastic 1/4 inch hose, I joined the ends by hacksawing a 1/4 inch threaded bolt, shuved half into the end of one end, and the bit left over I shuved into the other end. It is very strong, the regilar noise id the bump of the joined ends flying around the pullies.
 
If you are a newbie here to OU, you may not know you can access photos or videos (tiny) from here.
Under the bottom line, you will see a green paperclip, just double click on this and it will take you to the tiny video, exch one runs for about 8-10 seconds as this is the full length my mobile phone can record video, I am planning to upgrade it soon.
The full file length alowed by Stefan is 1100kb so it won't run for to long, but as Bill mentioned above, now he understands how it works

Enjoy  :D

jim


0512.3gp = This shows you the cotton winding maching, there are no cotton reels attatched, we start it up for the first time.
0516.3gp = On this one I take you on a walk, to look right around the cotton winding machine so you can see the mechanical operation.
 


Offline electricme

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Here I have provided 2 more tiny videos, they follow on from the last top 2 from above.

This time I have loaded the cotton winding machine with 6 rolls of white polyester cotton, each reel contains 1,000 meters or about 3,000 feet of cotton, the bobbin is marked 40/2 whatever this means, I haven't a clue.

OK, I have fed in (for this first time test) right through the center iron axle shaft, a single strand of IRON wire.
I am pulling slightly on this wire as you will see, as there is no geared motor to do this, (I need to make it) the idea is, as the bare iron wire proceeds through the center of this machine, the mounted cotton reels which are mounted on each spinning vertical disk, rotating clockwise and counter clockwise direction, will lay onto the outside of the iron wire 6 endless strands of cotton thread.

The iron wire entering the machine has a layer put down 1/8" inch before it enters the machine axle, then the other opposite layer is layed down 1/8" inch as it exits the axle.

The timing of the iron wire being drawn through the axle is critical, if I pull the iron wire too slow, the cotton tends to bunch up, if I pull the wire too fast, there are ring gaps between the cotton layers and the iron wire can be seen, so it is tricky to get a happy medium.

enjoy  :D

jim

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Offline electricme

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@All,

To make your own cotton winding machine there are several parts you will need.

2 identical disks (which the cotton reels are mounted on)
1 support axle, which the disks rotate on
1 support structure
1 x 12v DC or 24v DC motor, you could use a 120v or 240v ac motor but this will be more difficult to regulate in speed.

Depending on how you want to go, you could use 2 main drive motors, each motor driving each wheel separately, I chose a single drive motor as I can incorporate a PWM controller to take care of the speed of the counter rotatin pulleys, if the drive belt brakes, then both wheels stop together, this makes it far easier to rectify than if one disk is still turning laying only half the cotton on the wire.

OK I took my counter rotating pulleys from a Greenfield Rideon Garden Tractor lawn mower.
This particular mower controls its forward and reverse direction by toe/heel movement of your foot.
So if you go and visit a lawn mower place, yard, secondhand dealer, this would be a good place to start.
The rotating disks already have a machined surface where a steel ball bearing race goes, just match the axle to this part and you are almost home.

The axial can be made (if you don't by it) out of some solid steel shaft on a lathe, the ends machined down to suit the size of the inner bearing surfaces.

I simply cut the excess shaft ends off my axle which I took off the lawn mower, then drilled a 1/4" hole right through the center of this shaft, now I had the feed through hole where the wire is pulled through.

Take a beau peek at this below, you can see its a rough job, but I don't have a lathe so I used my drill press instead, the center hole is out of alignment, but it works, worts and all.

enjoy

jim
 

Offline Pirate88179

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Jim:

Have you figured out a way to control the speed of the wire being wrapped as it is pulled through?  I was thinking that you could rig up a hand crank to get a feel for the "correct" speed and then be able to duplicate it pretty close each time.  Or just put a speed control motor on it with a VR and find the proper settings that will work.

I know you had mentioned using a pic controller or logic circuit to do this but maybe something simple might be easier?

I was just thinking is all.  I am still fascinated by your creation down there and my hat is still off to you.

Bill

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Offline electricme

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Hello Bill,

Thank you for asking.

At the moment I have nothing built to control the speed of the copper wire being drawn through the hub axle of the cotton winding machine.
I was thinking of using the same principle as used in a cassette tape recorder, useing the pinch roller principle, but use two seperate solid rubber wheels which can grip the cotton covered wire as it comes out of the axle, after the last cotton layers have been wound on it.

To do this, I need a PWM DC controller, sooooo, I have been out and bought a few PWM DC motor control Kits from Jaycar in Aussie, for those reading and asking are they avaliable in America? the answer is yes.

 Look here www.jaycarelectronics.com or phone 1-800-784-0263
If you are in the UK try here  www.jaycarelectronics.co.uk or phone 0800 032 7241

I don't usually post or recommend products, but I have delt with Jaycar before and found them excellent, if you have a different supplier, please use them.

I plan to use one of 3 gear reduction gear drives I have here made by KNIGHT of IDEX Corp.
They are made in America, powered by 24volt DC reversable motors which I bought from a second hand place in town, they came out of laundry chemical pumps, there were 2 seperate pumps in each plastic case.
Some have metal caseings others are made from PVC, but the speed of the output shaft will decide, but they have very good torque.

All I need to do is find a couple of suitable pinch rollers then marry up everything, this is why it is on hold at the moment.

Photos attatched
2965 = Pinch rollers, how I think it will look like, I have drawn only a stright through type, but the wire could be made to go around a single turn on one roller, to give some "grip" if needed, but for thicker wire, then a larger rubber roller set would be needed.

2955 = what the kit looks like
2957 = built PWM, still not tested
2961 = helpful info
2962 = a selection of geared motors I can pick from. ;D

jim

Offline Pirate88179

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Jim:

The pinched rollers are a good idea but maybe difficult.  They would need somehow to be spring loaded to be able to respond to slightly different thicknesses of wire diameter and maybe insulation thickness.

Why not use your drive controller idea on just a pick-up reel?  The only problem I see here is if you are winding a long length of wire, the diameter of the winding wheel will effectively increase thereby slightly speeding up the wire traveling through the center of your winder.  This could be minimized by using a wider take-up reel so the wire could be spread about a little and not just piling up upon itself.

But, don't listen to me Jim, you have done a masterful job with your design thus far and I am sure you will tackle this last feature in the same manner.

Bill

Offline electricme

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Hi Bill,

Thank you for your suggestion, I know it will work well, I had thought about using that system quite a while back, but decided not to use it because of the actual problems you mentioned.
As the layers rise on the take up spool, so the speed of the take up spool needs to be lowered to cater for this.

This is why I decided to go for the 2 small rubber wheels, which I will mount just inches from where the wire exits the counter rotating disks, it alows me to set the speed at the correct draw of the wire.
I shouldn't have any problems from bunching up of the cotton, as I do at the moment   ;)

Yesterday I managed to drive a small festoon bulb using the PWM, it worked quite well, but driving a DC motor is another kettle of fish, I need to solder in a a high speed recovery diode across the motors terminals along with a capacitor to clamp the hi energy spikes which will occur while the motor is running.

If these spikes get back to the Mosfets, they will blow almost immediately
---------------------


After its all working, I need to make another drive for the take off spool, in this case it won't matter if the finished coton wire isn't layed neat and tidy, just as long as it gets wound on the spool.

I might put a couple of micro switches in series with the DC going to that motor, so if it approaches tension, the motor cuts off, then restarts as tension is too low, anyway thats a job for RON (later on).

Anyway, take a look at the photos below.
The DC Motor is a 24v motor, but I decided to try testing with 12v just to be sure it works before going to full batt voltage.

2968 = I'm testing the PWM circuit, it is powered by a 12v Gell cell, there is a 12v festoon bulb in circuit, it is running about 15% brightness, all electronic parts are cool to touch, sorry the photo is blurred.

I attatched my cro to the output, and here is the waveforms.
The bottom line represents 0 volts DC
The top line represents the 12v DC
The small top section which appears above the blank lower section represents the amount of time that 12v DC is being fed to the armature of the DC Motor
As this small top line gets wider, it tells us there is more 12v DC alowed to flow through to the motor, the wider the top line becomes, the small the lower line becomes, this is what is called the mark space ratio, or, the time between the times the power is turned ON to OFF, but it is turned ON or OFF at full grunt at each on and off cycle.

2969 = At about 15% power being delivered to the bulb
2971 = About 70% power is being delivered to the bulb
2972 = About 80% power, the top line is blury, it's an old 2nd hand scope

jim

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Offline electricme

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@ All,

(Tiny 10 sec Video Below)

My 1st attempt to power up the DC Motor itself went OK which I'm quite pleased about.

However the waveform is different to what I expected, never mind.

I had a few miss giveings on the way to solder in the fast recovery diode, I had never used a diode in this manner, so I put this test off for quite a while before I had done more homework about the procedure.

Anyway, I solded on the back of the motor terminals the capacitor then the special diode, double checked it, then connected the motor wires to the PWM controller and switched it on.

The motor began to run at a slow speed, I adjusted the 5k trim pot a little and gradually took it to full output.

I felt the heatsinks on the PWM and they are cool to the touch, so Phew, I'm breathing a sigh of relief.

2975 = photo of the capacitor and the high speed diode solded to the motor contacts.

Video0554.3gp =  You can see how the waveform behaves on the old BWD 511 scope

BTW, if anyone has a circuit for this model, I would be interested.

jim


Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Wow Cool
I was in the process of ordering Cotton covered copper on a special production run from a co. here in the states.
Found this.  : :D
Ditto Bills comments as to your ingenuity Jim! I like it.
SOOOOOO now I've got a new shopping list to go to the scrap yard with and spend some time perusing the stuff near the bottom of the pile. Ha
I replicate like some design. Great fun.
I've got a couple Treadmill motors, a pore PWM and a good PWM for them.
 So I will try to make the Counter rotating discs variable speed as well. they are in the 90-120V range so very powerful. Much more than needed I'm sure, but we make do. Right
I also have a ?sinkro? type table with speed and direction for winding Pancake coils but I don't think it would be powerful enough for ether application.
I think your right about the squish wheel drivers. A spring loaded pressure setter is a good Idea also there Bill. I'll be watching for what you come up with Jim.
A take-up real with slip level pressure would be good behind the drivers maybe. Whole thing dose need sympathetic shutdown as you alluded to Jim.
slightly different topic but it relates, hope you don't mind.
I got ahold of some Aluminum Gye wire. The stuff they stabilize the power poles with. It has an stainless steel core with 7 strands of aluminum warped around it all in the same direction. Must be 400' long.
I have tryed unwinding it by hand. Ha It's laying in the yard now, with about 20' undone.  ???
I'm woundering if I might be able to use said same to strip it?  :o

Thank You For This Thread. Oh That reminds me - Cotton Thread - Right Right Right

I'll Post my progress
FrznWtr




Offline FrozenWaterLab

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Just nuther thought
That shaft could be a piece of thick wall pipe. Gotta find the right size bearings for it and the Pulley wheels I get.
Teflon washer insert for leading edge?
Oh ya gotta have a couple small pulleys also. Drive belt.
 Need ta make a list.
FrznWtr

Offline electricme

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@ FrozenWaterLab

Welcome to the beginnings of the  Cotton Winding Machine Forum.
It's nice to have you along here developing ideas and tooling up to make your own machine.

By all means, make your own machine, but I also recommend everyone to go and buy at least 1 spool of cotton covered wire (if they can, I couldn't) so they can match it to what ever they make, it gives you a guide to follow.

That being said, there is simply nothing like the joy and feeling that one has when they have a machine that performs to their own design as you can carry out modifications to it any way you want, to improve it.

Making your own machine is frought with difficulties and you will come across them, I have, and have had to think up different ways to proceed, sometime I get held up for days or weeks.
I can say here that Bill has wonderful experience in making machines and bits of machines that if you were told about them you probably wouldn't believe it, one item is common knowledge as Bill has mentioned it in the Joule Thief thread and it has been flown by NASA, so big congrats to you Bill, who incidently is a true gentleman.

It sounds like you are a similar thinker to myself, I venture into the scrap mans domain looking for items I need.

Just remember, the principle of winding a cotton thread onto a copper wire, by feeding the wire through a hole drilled completly through a central shaft, the 2 large wheels spin on the axle in opposite directions, the 3 (or more) cotton reels spin round with each spinning wheel.

You can drive each wheel seperatly or use 1 motor, either will work.

Using mains powered motors or DC will succeed, if you want good control over speeds, then I recomend PWM drives and DC motors, or use a Stepper motor, which I know nothing about, see I'm not perfect lol.

A trick I use to unwind long lengths of wire is to anchor the far end securly.
Go the the other end and use a long light wooden pole in the verticle plane and attatch each end strand to the end of each pole, then slowly unwind the wire keeping a constant tension all the time.

Another trick I use is to anchor either wire ends to strong anchoring points, then unwind one strand at a time, rolling it up on an empty spool, this takes time but it works well.
------------------

Back to the cotton machine topic
How to prevent the drawn wire from wobbling as it has the cotton wound around it.
I noticed my drawn copper wire was wobbling sometimes violently, so I made up a special guide frame, this anchors the drawn wire and reduces this effect by 90 persent.

jim

2987 = copper wire guide frame assembly, this helps to prevent the wire being wound with cotton from wobblying all around the country side.

2988 = Close up of one of the guides, notice I made it so th ecenter guide itself can be removed and a smaller or larger guide billet can be changed. I havent got that far though.

2989 = the Wire guide frame simply slides into the vertical mounting post.
I had to do it this way so I could get access to threading the cotton thread through the eyelets.

PS, this is more complicated than any simple sewing machine, it's got a minimum of 6 cotton reels, so you can tell the little lady, my sewing machine is better than yours ha ha.

2990 = Wire guide at the feed out end, Notice the 3 small wires! at each end I turned the wire into a simple tiny as can be loop, the cotton feeds through these.

Once again welcome aboard
Enjoy

jim 


Offline electricme

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@All,

I had to fly into town so most of the day was taken up with other "stuff" but I managed to put a little more into my Cotton Winding Machine, which relates with the drawing of the finished cotton wire.
 
2991 = Here is a back or end view mock-up of the DC geared motor and how it should be setup eventually.
2992 = Here is a side view of it.

After looking side on, I can get a bit closer to the action by shortening the length of the steel coach head bolts ends protruding from the cotton reels.

I was going to put fine springs and wingnuts on these bolts, but it seems centrifugal force is doing the same job.

jim

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