Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Electric gas turbine review  (Read 6123 times)

prometheus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Electric gas turbine review
« on: July 04, 2010, 08:39:40 PM »
Hi,

I feel I stumbled over something more talented people may have overlooked. Please visit my site and review my idea on http://www.prometheusturbine.info.

Some people say I am aiming for a perpetuum mobile, but personally I think it is a very fuel efficient gas turbine.

I am interested in any kind of feedback. For instance will it work? Is the idea well explained? Am I wasting your and my time?


mr_bojangles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2010, 08:02:58 PM »
so instead of combusting gasoline, your injecting water vapor, and instead of igniting the gasoline, your using electricity to heat the water? which would expand?

so essentially it is closer to a steam engine almost?

that was what i could understand from your website, let me know how close/far i am to your design


prometheus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2010, 08:59:40 PM »
Thank you for your feedback. You got very close.

The gasoline is combusted in a diesel generator, next the electricity produced by this generator is used to power induction coils.

These induction coils heat the air inside the combustors, next this hot air expands and drives the turbines of the generator connected to the power grid.

The injection of small amounts of water is optional. It can increase volume and pressure.

I will make a new flowchart and post it here. The present one is confusing. Sorry for that.


mr_bojangles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2010, 09:36:56 PM »
wouldn't the diesel generator still be effected by the inefficiency of gasoline?

im asking because i thought your system was replacing this component of the combustion engine



however, could you not use the natural heat exhaust of the diesel generator as the heating component of your secondary electrical generator?

i like the idea that the first phase (diesel gen) would have essentially no load, but you would probly lose that energy if you tried to use it for heat, because electric heaters tend to draw large amounts of electricity, which would be less than what you could extract from the secondary heat type engine in the second phase

prometheus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2010, 10:33:23 AM »
You are correct, the diesel generator is inefficient, it needs 2,690 kW (269 liters/hour) to generate 1,000 kW, so 1,690 kW (169 liters/hour) is wasted.

You are also correct that electric heaters tend to draw large amounts of electricity. But the 10 electric combustors are based on the TDU-30 plasma torch which only consumes 30 kW and can easily reach 2,000 degrees Celsius.

http://www.tekna.com/equipment/induction-plasma-systems/tdu-30.html

Together the 10 electric combustors only consume 300 kW, so the 1,000 kW generated by the diesel generator is enough to power all 10 electric combustors.

Therefor, at the expense of 269 liters/hour consumed by diesel generator, the 10 electric combustors can heat the air to the same temperature as the Kawasaki gas turbine which has only 8 combustors and consumes 2,349 liters/hour.

(Please also see the diagram in the attached pdf file)

Regarding the use of the natural heat exhaust of the diesel generator: the hot exhaust of the diesel generator can be used.

It can be injected in the electric combustors for extra heat but the particles in the exhaust can damage the turbines, and it is probably to little and not worth the extra cost.

wings

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 750

prometheus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2010, 07:43:14 PM »
Thank you for the links. The videos are awesome. Just amazing isn't it, generating and directing that kind of heat with as little as 5 kw

wings

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 750
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2010, 09:23:06 PM »
Thank you for the links. The videos are awesome. Just amazing isn't it, generating and directing that kind of heat with as little as 5 kw

side effect:

"the ions in gas exhibit cohesion much as in a liquid. Being cohesive, the ions have substance enough to exhibit "surface tension"-again, just as do ions and molecules in a liquid. As such, gaseous ions form a kind of invisible diaphragm which might logically be expected to couple with and to exert force upon adjacent air molecules. If such were, in fact, the case, a modulated highly ionized electrical current in a combustion zone might "beat" against adjacent air molecules, converting its electrical energy to audio energy, much like the physical behavior of a loudspeaker's solid diaphragm on the air around it."

http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/May1968/Flame_Amplification.htm

prometheus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 09:53:46 AM »
great stuff, imagine a few 30 feet long flames at a rock concert, I wonder how it would sound (omnidirectional)

mr_bojangles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 02:36:34 AM »
in that case, maybe look into stirling engines

apply the plasma torch as the heat sink, and use room temp as the cold sink

i say this because the stirling engine is super efficient, and it draws power from differences in temperature, the greater the difference in temp. , the more power you can achieve

the problem is that there tend not to be super differences in temp found in nature, and heating one side tends to take more energy than the engine will produce

however, 2000 celsius boasts quite a difference from room temperature


prometheus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electric gas turbine review
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2010, 10:52:50 AM »
Good idea! Hadn't thought of that. It might be very suitable for a new type of electric / hybrid car, either driving a generator or the car itself. It can also be used as a small power plant for the home.
http://www.animatedengines.com/vstirling.shtml

For some reason gas turbines in cars or micro gas turbines haven't really become main stream.
http://www.youtube.com//watch?v=jUf42Nv5GZY&hl=en&fs=1
http://www.capstoneturbine.com/prodsol/techtour/

But still, gas turbines are probably far more powerful, the air intake of modern gas turbines can be 600 cubic meter or 21,188 cubic feet per second.

So I doubt wether the stirling engine is suitable for use in large power plants capable driving a rotor of the size in the picture I attached.