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Author Topic: Internal Propulsion  (Read 9290 times)

Offline IntProp

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Internal Propulsion
« on: June 17, 2010, 08:44:40 AM »
I want to propose a new type of propulsion – internal propulsion. This is a type of propulsion, producing propulsive force inside a vehicle without any relation to the environment. I wrote an article, describing basic principles and some features of internal propulsion. This is not comprehensive paper, there are much more phenomena and effects, on basis of which can be built internal propulsion. I only want to initialize research on this subject. I have not possibility to conduct experiments and full scale tests. Because of that I am very interested in sharing my ideas with people in hope, that someone will be able to realize these principles on practice. The article can be found here: http://internalpropulsion.awardspace.co.uk/.

I have proved, that internal propulsion violates conservation of energy. I have also proved, that jet propulsion also violates conservation of energy – power consumption of jet engine does not depend on vehicle speed.
On basis of internal propulsion can be built antigravity devices. Internal propulsion allows to accelerate vehicle to speeds, higher than speed of light. Using principles of internal propulsion we can build energy producing devices.
I think that internal propulsion is breakthrough propulsion. I think it is our future.
I would like to ask community, if someone has possibility to help to implement this propulsion in our life, to participate in dissemination of this idea among people.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Internal Propulsion
« on: June 17, 2010, 08:44:40 AM »

Offline frii143

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 10:01:34 AM »
I can't see the picture and I don't understand from the wording. Is the Internal Propulsion like surging water from the center of the wheel to the innerside of the rim that passes through a pipe to a generator by Centripical Force or G-forces? Or is it more like something mechanical like a weight and spring that can harvest and store movement Forces the rotate them to work for the vehicle?

Offline broli

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 11:44:57 AM »
I like the presentation, very clean and well written to convey the concept. Btw you should be able to build these, they are not that complex.

I have only a remark on the last device. That seems to good to be true to generate a force. Won't the pressure differential acting on the wing also act on the inner wall of the tubing.

These experiment are really easy to carry out, especially the last one which you don't even need closed tubing for. See attached. You need a pc fan, paper and tape. You can make a tube out of some A4 paper and tape, and the wing out of cardboard perhaps. Then test with and without the tubing and note the difference. There's no excuse for not building it  ;D .

Offline IntProp

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 01:53:55 PM »
Pressure difference across wing is dynamical. It arises only with change of speed of the stream, which takes place only around curved surface of the wing. At distances (0.5-1)*c of the wing (c is chord) this speed change is very small. So, the pressure, acting on a wall of tube, will practically not change. The only pressure difference in the system will be pressure difference between lower and upper surfaces of the wing (or wings).
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 02:21:58 PM by IntProp »

Offline broli

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 07:37:26 PM »
Pressure difference across wing is dynamical. It arises only with change of speed of the stream, which takes place only around curved surface of the wing. At distances (0.5-1)*c of the wing (c is chord) this speed change is very small. So, the pressure, acting on a wall of tube, will practically not change. The only pressure difference in the system will be pressure difference between lower and upper surfaces of the wing (or wings).

If this is true then newton's third law isn't applying here. Would be an interesting experiment. And like I said there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to build a simple experiment. You can use a smooth plastic bottle, with base and head cut off, as the tube and make an aerodynamic shape out of any material desired and jam it into the bottle. Then hang it on a string and blow air from bottom or top and see what it does.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 07:37:26 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 09:22:05 PM »
I have been pondering this vary concept myself recently. I dismissed it at the time, thinking that the diverted air would bounce of the size of the enclosure, and everything be brought in balance.
If you are right though, it should as seaid be pretty easy to build a proof of concept.

Large donut enclosure. 2 propellors placed inside. One or 2 wings placed at 90 degrees. The whole thing on a sensitive scale, and turn it on!

If your theory holds true, it should even be easy to make a flying saucer.

Offline broli

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2010, 07:53:27 PM »
Any news on this?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2010, 07:53:27 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline IntProp

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2010, 08:35:37 PM »
Any news on this?

Please, see also electromagnetic internal propulsion: http://internalpropulsion.awardspace.co.uk/Electromagnetic_propulsion.htm (Internet Explorer users, please, follow this link - http://internalpropulsion.awardspace.co.uk/Electromagnetic_propulsion.mht - temporary problem with images in IE).

Offline v71

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 08:12:30 PM »
I ma sorry to say that both of your ideas , cannot work, in the first, the air conatained in the sealed container will bounce back with the exact opposite force, cancelling each other.
In the electromagnetic propulsion, the same concept will cancel the forces, you can't beat the third law so easily.

Offline exnihiloest

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 01:48:26 PM »
...
I have proved, that internal propulsion violates conservation of energy.
...

This is false. For example you state that "we need different amount of energy depending on from which point of view we regard the car". This is a well known fact also asserted by the mainstream science: energy is frame depending. It doesn't contradict energy conservation which applies to a closed system viewed from an inertial frame of reference.
It is obvious with kinetic energy. Ek=1/2*m*v², v depends on the frame of reference therefore Ek too. Kinetic energy is not localized in an objet (kinetic energy is always zero relative to the frame of reference of the object itself).

Other mistake. You say "But jet engines use the same amount of energy to produce equal thrust at all speeds – thrust depends only on speed of exhausted gases relative to engine". It is true relative to the jet engines itself but you forgot that the jet engine accelerates: it is not an inertial frame of reference! So your point is meaningless.

In the device with the fly wheel and the bullet, you suppose their is a momentum m*v to the right. This is true only during the short period when the bullet flies and carries an opposed momentum (leaving at rest the center of mass of the whole device). It is false when the bullet strikes the paddle of flywheel because at this moment the whole systems begins to  rotate on itself in order to maintain both linear and circular momentum of the whole device.

What is conserved is the energy of a closed system. Energy is not conserved from your viewpoint because of your basic errors. Either you don't apply the physics laws to the whole system but only to parts, or your treat the problem in non inertial frames of reference, or you add together intermediate results calculated in different reference frames when they are frame dependent.





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 01:48:26 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Internal Propulsion
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2010, 02:47:42 PM »

In the device with the fly wheel and the bullet, you suppose their is a momentum m*v to the right. This is true only during the short period when the bullet flies and carries an opposed momentum (leaving at rest the center of mass of the whole device). It is false when the bullet strikes the paddle of flywheel because at this moment the whole systems begins to  rotate on itself in order to maintain both linear and circular momentum of the whole device.

I do not agree with that statement. You can mirror the setup to have 2 bullets and two fly wheels. In order to cancel rotation about the main systems center of mass. But you will still end up with some linear momentum converted into rotational momentum which means the the total linear momentum of the bullets is not converted back all back to linear momentum.

I attached such system and I also included an extra bullet attached to the wheels for balancing to prevent centripetal/centrifugal force action.

Offline Cherryman

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