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Author Topic: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !  (Read 275023 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2010, 11:13:52 PM »
What on Earth that HHO might be also beats me.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2010, 11:13:52 PM »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2010, 11:34:35 PM »
I have added a few more older videos of the Anton cell team
to my youtube account so you can see it working and
also a gas measurement video of a smaller Anton cell with fewer plates:

http://www.youtube.com/user/overunitydotcom#g/u


Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2010, 12:10:21 AM »
Hi Stefan,

Thanks a lot for posting these interesting videos. Can you please make a short summary of what the researcher in http://www.youtube.com/user/overunitydotcom#p/u/2/_jvroJJghyc says. What is the claim when he's measuring the volume of the gas? Is it that the current efficiency is higher than expected? 

Offline Rapadura

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2010, 12:20:48 AM »
What on Earth that HHO might be also beats me.

HHO is Oxyhydrogen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen

Offline Rapadura

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2010, 12:23:50 AM »
So, now I think it's time to start frenetic testing on this... I expect more videos to come soon, with experiments lasting for some minutes, and the output being used to power the Anton cells and lighting up fluorescent lamps at the same time.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2010, 12:23:50 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2010, 12:31:41 AM »
OK, now I get it. HHO is nothing else but the usually stoichiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. To avoid oxydation many times non-stoichiometric mixture of 4:1 or 5:1 hydrogen:oxygen is used. Too obscure a name (HHO) for something that trivial. I wonder what the mixture in this case is. Of course, at the moment of electrolysis it is stoichiometric. Now, that's one question. The 3% water solution of KOH is pretty trivial as an electrolyte. Randy Mills of BlackLight Technologies will not agree -- recall he finds the excess in KOH solutions and not in NaOH; I, however, don't agree with that -- excess energy in an undivided cell is produced both with KOH and NaOH electrolyte. Anyway.

Second important question concerns the exact type of stainless steel these researchers are using and do they apply any pretreatment of the electrodes. If this is to be an open source project (which usually is referred to as a scientific project, another way of saying it) they have to be pretty open about it. This whole thing seems to be a continuation of the Bulgarian Yul Brown's research into the so-called "Brown gas". Very interesting indeed, if what these scientists are claiming turns out to be real. This has to be replicated by independent parties as soon as possible. I, for one, would like to carry out experiments too.

Where did they get this "cheap Chinese motor-generator"?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2010, 12:41:09 AM »
Another thing, if they are using non-stoichiometric mixture how do they produce it and what's the proportion they use?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2010, 12:41:09 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2010, 12:52:58 AM »
Where can one find a 40V, 60A power supply? Where are these researchers located? I may consider visiting them in the Summer, if that's OK with them.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2010, 01:56:35 AM »
This GenSet ICE conversion to hydrogen seems
fairly standard. I would be glad to answer any
questions anybody has about about the GenSet
and its conversion. Unfortunately I don't speak
German so I can't be criticized too harshly for
what I say. ;)

One reason for the device's instability is that he doesn't
seem to use a hydrogen or hho gas metering valve.
He removed the throttle body when he got rid of the
carburetor. That medium plastic tube breathes air
into the carburetor port...The hydrogen air mix is non
stochastic mixture because of the nitrogen in the air.
You don't really want to form a partial vacuum using
only the stochastic mix of HHO into the engine because
the compressed volume won't be the same as with the
70% neutral nitrogen gas in air.

So he is pretty much using a wide open path for produced
hydrogen to enter the engine. One way to control the
amount of hydrogen produced would be to control how
much power is directed to the electrolyser.

He has disconnected the mechanical governor that controlls
ICE engine throttle RPM when using hydrocarbon fuel. This
is designed so that generator unit run at about 50/60Hertz.

The other thing is he stopped using the engines internal
flywheel magneto spark coil and he has built a simple
electronic ignition trigger using a hall effect switch and
a glued on magnet so he can fire that auto ignition coil
near 0 degrees TDC Top Dead Center required for hydrogen
combustion. That wooden stick controls fine tuning of the
firing angle. The generator shaft is directly linked to the
engine crank shaft and those plastic gears as are the 2
to one ratio required to fire the spark once in the four
engine cycles.

I kind of like the concept more of direct connection to a high
power 12V Alternator so that one can use a car battery to
stabilize the power loop path. The probability that the electrolyser
cells are producing exactly three times the required power is nill.
So you are going to have to control their output. One way to
do that is control the DC power supply to the electrolyser. With
a variac and a light dimmer control substituted for a throttle.

The electrolyser power supply is probably that boxy unit with
the dual red and green digital meters, that he is adjusting.

So the magic, if there is any here, is in the Anton electrolyser
cells themselves about which I know little.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Online ramset

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2010, 02:19:52 AM »
Mark Coffman
quote:

So the magic, if there is any here, is in the Anton electrolyser
cells themselves about which I know little.
---------------------------------
Gotta be something special somewhere!
This has been tried a thousand times a thousand different ways!

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2010, 02:19:52 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2010, 02:19:56 AM »
I hate to correct people on terminology but I'll say it for the sake of those who might want to use it correctly -- it's non-stoichiometric and not non-stochastic. Stoichiometry is the proportion set in stone between the moles of reactants and the products given by a chemical (electrochemical) reaction. Stoichiometry is an expression of one of the basic laws of Chemistry -- the law of constant proportions and has nothing to do with stochastics -- the area of mathematics which studies random processes and probabilities therefrom.

Now about the essence -- what is GenSet ICE conversion to hydrogen?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2010, 02:30:15 AM »
OK, I got it. The search engines help in such cases. Now the question is can one find much smaller and less noisy GenSet? What's the smallest one can find? A laboratory experiment doesn't need those clunky industrial type motor-generators.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2010, 02:47:26 AM »
Mark Coffman
quote:

So the magic, if there is any here, is in the Anton electrolyser
cells themselves about which I know little.
---------------------------------
Gotta be something special somewhere!
This has been tried a thousand times a thousand different ways!

Chet

Of course, the pivotal element is the electrolysis cell. It should be exceptionally efficient to the point of being unbelievable. That's why I was asking Stefan if they claim in the film (not knowing German is a drag) violation of Faraday's laws of electrolysis when measuring the volume of the gas evolved. Another option is to observe a GenSet becoming more efficient when the stoichiometric 2:1 mixture becomes non-stoichiometric 4:1 or 5:1 (hydrogen:oxygen). That is to be expected because it is exactly the hydrogen that is the fuel. However, where do we get this hydrogen from since the very production of the gas mixture is necessarily stoichiometric. Unless someone can demonstrate that stoichiometry, that is the basic laws of chemistry don't hold any more (well, recall superconductivity--it is based on non-stoichiometric ceramic materials).

So, @ramset, you're saying that feeding of a GenSet by a hydrogen-oxygen mixture has been tried before, correct? Do you have any reference?

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2010, 03:03:52 AM »
Some more infos from Oliver translated into English:

The problems that still exist and thus it needs 4 hands to control it all:

1st There are no load-and speed-control
   in the ignition, exhaust gas recirculation, cooling, air, steam and gas supply.
2nd The engine is the cheapest of the cheapest available, just a cheap chinese
motor-generator and is far too "nervous."
3rd The generator part of it is also one of the cheapest.
4th The used switching power supply is not suitable to process irregular 220 Volts AC frequencies.
5th The pressure regulator or gas buffer must be  improved.
6th A clever mixing chamber to swirl and a venturi system must be found.
7th The valve control is "crap delivered from the factory", so it still must be modified.
6th Air cooling is crap, because heat can not be recycled.
7th All in all, only a "proof of concept" demo..
.... etc.

We first wanted to see and research the main  principle, and therefore,
to understand the previously seen videos on the Internet and see
if it could be replicated.

There is still much to do, but we need  "doers" come into play.



@ Stefan
I have switched off because the speed was too high and we had no desire to
kill the powersupply or to break the engine. The LED display of the power supply was wrong
(Probably because of the unregulated power frequency of the generator?)

We needed  approximately 6L HHO gas at about 800 - 900 Watts input
in the test with the lamps and drill.

The exact values we will still have to measure again,
but we can not work too often in the office, cause it is very loud !

The neighbors don´t have much understanding for running a loud water motor and we
need their patience and don´t want to make them angry...

We need a silent Perpetuum Mobile !  ;D

Offline Rapadura

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2010, 03:13:13 AM »
Neighbors upset about noise delay the development of science!

He has to tell his neighbors that they will soon run their cars on water! This could increase their patience!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2010, 03:13:13 AM »

 

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