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Author Topic: Same input-greater output...  (Read 10020 times)

iacob alex

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Same input-greater output...
« on: March 18, 2010, 03:56:25 PM »

 ...can be a possible outcome,if the same arm difference of a first class lever (equal masses/effort=load) ,performs between a greater and greater gravitational  leves difference (up-down).

    We must take into account the time factor...

        All the best! / Alex
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Alexioco

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2010, 05:12:25 PM »
How do you mean, i'm not quite with you

Alex
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FreeEnergy

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2010, 11:34:32 PM »
huh?
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onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 11:46:26 PM »
Quote from: iacob alex on March 18, 2010, 03:56:25 PM
...can be a possible outcome,if the same arm difference of a first class lever (equal masses/effort=load) ,performs between a greater and greater gravitational  leves difference (up-down).

    We must take into account the time factor...

        All the best! / Alex

Shoot a bullet up into the air at 4000lbs per square inch, now measure the amount of PSI as the bullet falls back to earth, you will not get the same energy back. not even close.

also, don't be fooled by levers and fulcrums, there is a trade off and it is called distance over time.

good luck.
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iacob alex

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 03:20:22 AM »

....is the basic idea of a possible PM.

    If we play the TIME FACTOR (v=g*t),we play in fact the height (level difference).

    To use this opportunity,we need a greater free fall.

    A lever/two spokes only/ (vs. a many spokes wheel...) is allowing this greater fall...

    If we work with a small,constant,same input(arm difference) and the arms become greater and greater (free fall height),the accumulated torque difference is incresing the kinetic energy (the output).

    This is comparable,equivalent to the free fall  of a mass,from  a greater height "H",but we "pay" to remake this fall with  the same,small  arms difference "h",only (H>>>h).

    It's so simple...small input (unbalance),great output (unbalance),Prigogine "style".                                                           

     All the best! / Alex
     
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iacob alex

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2010, 09:18:39 AM »

.....there was a small (but "essential") mistake in the first message:...(equal masses/long arm-short arm scheme/effort>load).

    The same starting unbalance (effort-load),can be increased,as much as possible,in a greater and greater up-down fall.

    The torque difference develops "alike" a free falling mass,from a greater and greater height.

    On the top we need the same input.

    On the bottom,we can get a bigger output...

       All the best! / Alex
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Alexioco

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2010, 10:29:13 AM »
Quote from: iacob alex on March 19, 2010, 03:20:22 AM
....is the basic idea of a possible PM.

    If we play the TIME FACTOR (v=g*t),we play in fact the height (level difference).

    To use this opportunity,we need a greater free fall.

    A lever/two spokes only/ (vs. a many spokes wheel...) is allowing this greater fall...

    If we work with a small,constant,same input(arm difference) and the arms become greater and greater (free fall height),the accumulated torque difference is incresing the kinetic energy (the output).

    This is comparable,equivalent to the free fall  of a mass,from  a greater height "H",but we "pay" to remake this fall with  the same,small  arms difference "h",only (H>>>h).

    It's so simple...small input (unbalance),great output (unbalance),Prigogine "style".                                                           

     All the best! / Alex


Seems interesting, is there a picture you can directly link us to?

Alex
     
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iacob alex

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2010, 09:23:23 AM »

....can be expressed easy,as a simple as possible:

     -as a scheme...if you want "to eat fish".
   
     -as a word-description (see previous messages...)...if you want "to catch fish".

     About schemes,drawings,designs...sorry,for the moment ,the "innkeeper"  geocities.com is not more available.

     A copy of my old web-site is iregular accessible on a personal computer,so I hope to find the fit words to illustrate it.

     Words are the tools that models concepts out of experience.

          All the best! / Alex   
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Alexioco

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 08:49:25 PM »
Quote from: iacob alex on March 21, 2010, 09:23:23 AM
....can be expressed easy,as a simple as possible:

     -as a scheme...if you want "to eat fish".
   
     -as a word-description (see previous messages...)...if you want "to catch fish".

     About schemes,drawings,designs...sorry,for the moment ,the "innkeeper"  geocities.com is not more available.

     A copy of my old web-site is iregular accessible on a personal computer,so I hope to find the fit words to illustrate it.

     Words are the tools that models concepts out of experience.

          All the best! / Alex   

I don't mean to be rude but can't you explain things in a more simple way?

Alex
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FreeEnergy

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 01:18:49 AM »
huh?
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iacob alex

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2010, 04:31:02 AM »

....as a wish for,and in the same time,as a realm of possibility to imagine a PM device ,can be defined with the help of a setting side by side :

       - the positive work ("H"), done by the fall down of a small unbalance (let's say a first class lever,two equall masses,two unequal arms/a small long arm-short arm difference...).

        -the  negative work ("h") ,done to spring up (remake),the same small unbalance ,as a starting point of a repetitive process .

     Now,if  H>>>h ,or h=constant and  H  is ever increasing ?!

     All the best! / Alex
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FreeEnergy

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 04:48:45 AM »
huh?
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Alexioco

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 12:59:54 PM »
Are you saying that by having two equal weights on an off-balance lever, the weight that rises (short side of lever) is ever increasing so it can then repeat its lift from its current position? Is that what you mean? Which wont perpetuate as the long arm will just balance at the bottom...

Alex
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iacob alex

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 05:01:48 PM »

 ....it's a simple logic :

     -an off-balance lever (equal masses,unequal arms/"h" is their difference ).

      -starting unbalance: long arm on top position.

      -due to unbalance state and gravity "pressure",the mass on long arm plays positive work(torque),the mass on short arm plays negative work (torque).

      -the motion of the lever (fall) is determined by their torque difference.

       -if we are interested (really...!),to collect more power,we need more space (height "H")...or time (v=g*t).

       -if we have more stored power,we can easy to remake the starting unbalance ( mgh),to "pay" friction and to take out some power supply...

          All the best! / Alex
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FreeEnergy

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Re: Same input-greater output...
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 06:09:47 PM »
uh, i don't get it.
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