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Author Topic: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42  (Read 28676 times)

Offline detrix42

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 03:56:56 AM »
@ jarado2600:

I tried to build a JT (Joule Thief) circuit with one of the transformers I pulled out of the old power supply.  Having some difficulties.  A large part is due to not really knowing the pin out of the transformer.  I think I have figured it out, but not 100% certain.  One coil has 9.4 ohms, and the other has .4 ohms.  I have to .4 ohms as the primary and the 9.4 ohm as the step up coil.  I am trying to measure the voltage across the 1uF cap, and only getting the supplied voltage.  I put an LED in place of the diode. when measuring voltage across the capacitor, with an analog meter, which just happened to be the one closest to me at the time, the LED lit up a little.  If I short out the capacitor, the LED lites up bright.  What am I missing???  if I have given enough info.

detrix42

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 03:56:56 AM »

Offline Mk1

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 04:12:01 AM »
@detrix

Ok first you said something about the resistance of those coil , that gives you two things first the resistance , the coil with the highest should be good for the output (pickup coil) , second thing is continuity , and that is really important , it will tell you the type of coil you have.

Make sure you know witch pin is connects to , one may be connected to more then one pin .

Then isolate two single coil or one with 3 pin to use for the joule thief.

I hope this helps !

Mark

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 04:27:14 AM »
I'll repost the schematic with some part numbers.

The first setup can be made using ceramic disk caps - this will ensure that you're no going over voltage,  It's also quite possible that you're transformer doesn't have a good ratio.

You may be better off winding your own toroid for now.  Also, you must connect the pinout anti-parallel.  See setup 2.  this just means that the windings of one must oppse that of the windings of the other...   if two were co-wound, then you would have to take the beginning of one, opposite beginning of the other ..see the somewhat foolish representation in setup 2. :P

the resistor directly at the base can be bridged with a cap instead of like in setup 2 ...this MUST be a disk type capacitor or it will blow. ..something too big and it won't work, something too small and it won't work.  try between 1000pF and 1uF.

The capacitor on the right needs to be able to handle the high voltage.

Use a 1.5 volt battery to test - then step up to a 9v source.  All resistance value on the schematic below can be divided by 10 for the 1.5v source.

I will build one of these this weekend to test a 9V source, you may want to get one of those large transistors with a heat sink to be safe though.

I have an NTE210 as well as a number of others, the have a metal fin on top of them, this usually indicates that they can handle a larger base current than the 2n2222 version and not heat up.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2010, 04:36:57 AM »
I'll repost the schematic with some part numbers.

The first setup can be made using ceramic disk caps - this will ensure that you're no going over voltage,  It's also quite possible that you're transformer doesn't have a good ratio.

You may be better off winding your own toroid for now.  Also, you must connect the pinout anti-parallel.  See setup 2.  this just means that the windings of one must oppse that of the windings of the other...   if two were co-wound, then you would have to take the beginning of one, opposite beginning of the other ..see the somewhat foolish representation in setup 2. :P

the resistor directly at the base can be bridged with a cap instead of like in setup 2 ...this MUST be a disk type capacitor or it will blow. ..something too big and it won't work, something too small and it won't work.  try between 1000pF and 1uF.

The capacitor on the right needs to be able to handle the high voltage.

Use a 1.5 volt battery to test - then step up to a 9v source.  All resistance value on the schematic below can be divided by 10 for the 1.5v source.

I will build one of these this weekend to test a 9V source, you may want to get one of those large transistors with a heat sink to be safe though.

I have an NTE210 as well as a number of others, the have a metal fin on top of them, this usually indicates that they can handle a larger base current than the 2n2222 version and not heat up.

but the Joule Thief is not off the grid, it only takes induction from already induced electromagnetism that's already payed for, unless of course your a thief and steal from your neighbors at the same time and or some stray electric pole. 

although you might get induction via high voltage you will not get very much amperage. this is usually always the case, to much voltage and clearly not enough amperes to do some serious work.


Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 05:02:03 AM »
if you're using a 9v source, then the LED will light up even though the circuit isn't running ... it may even burn out.  Using a 1.5v source you can place an LED where the cap is on the right and test the circuit for voltage boosts.

Warning.  Considering the nature of collapse in the coils of a motor, it may be prudent to use ONLY ceramic disk capacitors as fly back from a collapsing magnetic field in one of the windings may cause a reverse in polarity and thus explode an electrolytic capacitor.

I should have though of this sooner.

You'll want to use a millifarad capacitor, a 450v .68mF ..or somethign to that effect.

Electrolytic may not be the best thing to use.

ranking: F, mF, uF, nF, pF ...

The smaller capacities will give you voltage faster, but may not be as effective, larger capacitors will take time to fill...  there will need to be a middle ground: the osilation circuit will need to cycle several times between commutations.

I will try an experiment with a prefab motor in the future - I may make a maiden you tube post about it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 05:02:03 AM »
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Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2010, 05:10:12 AM »
but the Joule Thief is not off the grid, it only takes induction from already induced electromagnetism that's already payed for, unless of course your a thief and steal from your neighbors at the same time and or some stray electric pole. 

although you might get induction via high voltage you will not get very much amperage. this is usually always the case, to much voltage and clearly not enough amperes to do some serious work.

Yes of course, the idea is tailored specifically to his commutation device.  there is a period in which no current flows though his motor ( unless i'm seeing things wrong ) ..during this time the joule thief activates and, the cap gets a boost.

This is the principle idea.  NOT that both are happening at the same time ...  the joule thief works BETWEEN commutation, ..therefore it must also have a very high rate of oscillation.

When contact is made, the joule thief cuts off or becomes less effective, and current flows through the diode off the collector and through the windings of the motor.

it may require another diode pointing to ground off the ground lead of the 'motor source' to prevent a reverse of polarity on the capacitor.

Offline detrix42

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2010, 04:44:08 PM »
but the Joule Thief is not off the grid, it only takes induction from already induced electromagnetism that's already payed for, unless of course your a thief and steal from your neighbors at the same time and or some stray electric pole. 

although you might get induction via high voltage you will not get very much amperage. this is usually always the case, to much voltage and clearly not enough amperes to do some serious work.

The concept that I am exploring, trying to prove or disprove, is generating a magnetic field in a coil using voltage, and very minimal current.  The theory is, the more voltage (little current), more atom alignment, better/stronger magnetic field.  A better/stronger magnetic field, more torque.  I want to keep my motors wattage around 1 to 10 watts.  So I think a joule thief circuit is capable of producing the high voltage with minimal current I want, with a small source.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2010, 04:44:08 PM »
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Offline detrix42

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2010, 05:41:24 PM »
@jarado2600:
Thank you so very much for all this help.  I am using ceramic caps right now. I am trying different ones cause I don't think I have a 1uF cap.  The one with out a value in your schematic, I have one which I believe to be a 40,000pF (it has been a long time since I have read cap labels, this one has 403, that should be 40,000pF right?).  The one on the right side has a label of 683k.  Is that 68000k pF, or just 68000 pF?  I am using these because the are rated for 250v.  I put two in series to be able to handle 500v.  Are these values causing me problems?


Offline detrix42

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2010, 06:31:47 PM »
@jarado2600:
I tried a different transformer from the same power supply.  And it appears I figure out the pins/coils.  with a very used 9v battery, only measure around 6 to 7v, the output across the "683k" cap got up to 20v. I have a potentiometer where you said to have 100k-300k. all I had to cover that range is a 5Megaohm pot. When I go down near zero, I get the 20V.

To get 21V, the pot is at 1260 ohms.  Ok I am on the right track.  Thanks for your help.

detrix42

Offline detrix42

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2010, 08:17:39 PM »
Wow.  check this out: see pictures below;

@jadaro2600: I used a 1k ohm resistor inplace of the pot.

I am loving this.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2010, 08:17:39 PM »
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Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2010, 03:49:11 AM »
Nive, this is what the JTC is for.. I'm not real clear on how to read the disk cap lables either, I have an ammeter that reads capacitance for me, i just use that.

Check here for a potentiometer trick I like to use.  you can bring your potentiometer down to a 0 - 1.25m potentiometer

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8793.0

what transistor are you using?

Offline detrix42

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2010, 04:32:23 PM »
@Jarado2600:
it is a general purpose one I got a long time ago.  the numbers on it are

6256
N720

I have not looked up the datasheet on it.  Just went through the one I have, check that it was an NPN, put it in.  Though I probably should look at the datasheet to see the maximum voltage it can handle.

Anyways I now need to modify your design a bit.  The cap on the right needs to not discharge too fast in the beginning.  Once the motor is rotating at higher speeds, then a quick discharge is acceptable.  Though I only need the difference in potential (voltage) from the cap, but I need to be able to apply that voltage for about 2sec on startup of my motor.


Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2010, 01:45:02 AM »
@Jarado2600:
it is a general purpose one I got a long time ago.  the numbers on it are

6256
N720

I have not looked up the datasheet on it.  Just went through the one I have, check that it was an NPN, put it in.  Though I probably should look at the datasheet to see the maximum voltage it can handle.

Anyways I now need to modify your design a bit.  The cap on the right needs to not discharge too fast in the beginning.  Once the motor is rotating at higher speeds, then a quick discharge is acceptable.  Though I only need the difference in potential (voltage) from the cap, but I need to be able to apply that voltage for about 2sec on startup of my motor.

This may not be the setup you end up with, but putting this extra diode on it will prevent polarity from reversing from the motor, you could probably safely get away with using an electrolytic on the right using the idea below.

Offline detrix42

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2010, 12:21:16 AM »
@Jarado2600:  Need some help.  perhaps I should post this in the Joule Thief thread as well.

Below is a schematic of what I have now, and it is working great.  With just 6.5v input, I am getting 100+v on the output.  The next pic is a pin layout of a transformer I want to use.  I hacked apart a printer/scanner.  I want to hook up the joule thief's output to it. So far the things I have tried is not working.  Again I am not much of an engineer...yet.

Yea, I will also post in the joule thief tread.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2010, 04:54:55 AM »
Diode appears backwards in the first schematic.

Do you have an ammeter that measure frequency of AC?

Your circuit may not be oscillating at high enough frequency to jump the voltage up between commutations.

maybe i'm rusty on the newman concept, ..does the commutator switch polatiry of the current through the windings between commutations.  This may seem like a silly question this late in your postings...

but you may be able to use this to you advantage.  collapse through one winding may give you a voltage boost just like the joule thief would.  as it collapses, this back emf could possibly be translated to the other coils with diodes.  I think this is what Newman was talking about when he said he uses diodes instead of his normal commutator.

Which makes perfect sense.  ..a redirected magnetic field would cause greater efficient use of the energy in the system.


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Re: Newman Motor #3 by detrix42
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2010, 04:54:55 AM »

 

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