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Author Topic: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter  (Read 32756 times)

Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2010, 12:26:12 PM »

@all,

Perhaps someone with extensive work with magnets can answer this:

I have been following this thread from start and believe it holds promise but my
only reservation is because the magnets are being pushed to the limit, is there
not the strong posibilty for them to demagnetise after operating this motor fo a
while.?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Rapadura

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2010, 12:48:46 PM »
Wow!!!!

It's the first time I'm reading this thread, and need to say it's FANTASTIC!!!!!!!

This thing has exactly the principle that I was thinking about: using the electromagnet just as "switches", with almost all the power coming from the permanent magnets!!

No doubt OverUnity can be achieved with this approach. No doubt!

When we try do to a motor with only permanent magnets, we have the problem of the sticky point, but using weak electromagnets we can invert polarities and cause repulsion to destroy the sticky points...

OverUnity is waiting around the corner!


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2010, 12:38:33 AM »
@all,

Perhaps someone with extensive work with magnets can answer this:

I have been following this thread from start and believe it holds promise but my
only reservation is because the magnets are being pushed to the limit, is there
not the strong posibilty for them to demagnetise after operating this motor fo a
while.?
No,

This motor works as any other electric motor with magnets and electromagnets. Except it is configured different. The magnets are exposed to both opposite and equal electromagnetism as in a normal brushed or brushless electric motor. So the average magnetic exposure from the electromagnet is 0. The magnet will be slightly demagnetized at when exposed to opposite magnetism, but later slightly magnetized by equal magnetism. There is the timing of the polarity switch which make the rotation - as in a regular electric motor.

Vidar

Offline nightlife

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2010, 02:28:01 AM »
 There is one big problem people are over looking here and that is that this motor must produce enough energy to fire the coil. That energy must be gained between each firing point. Based on the design, that would mean that it will have to produce the energy needed in just a fraction of the rotation which would be impossible. You may be able to create perpetual motion at best but nothing more.

 Here is a good test for those interested in this. Use a iron core and power the coil and read how much pull is created. Then figure out the percentage of pull gained and compare the gain to the percentage of gain when a magnet core is used.

 I am betting you end up with more of a percentage gain with the iron core then you do with the magnet core.  ;D


Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2010, 02:46:47 AM »
Wow!!!!

It's the first time I'm reading this thread, and need to say it's FANTASTIC!!!!!!!

This thing has exactly the principle that I was thinking about: using the electromagnet just as "switches", with almost all the power coming from the permanent magnets!!

No doubt OverUnity can be achieved with this approach. No doubt!

When we try do to a motor with only permanent magnets, we have the problem of the sticky point, but using weak electromagnets we can invert polarities and cause repulsion to destroy the sticky points...

OverUnity is waiting around the corner!

don't be so sure.

resistances:
1. friction.
2. gravity
3. magnetism
4. nuclear force.
5. weak force.
6. electromagnetic force.
7. Static forces.

it would require a unification of energy and or forces to do such a thing. nobody has yet achieved this. I am not saying that it couldn't happen but what I am saying is nobody has went as far as only coupling just a couple of forces at most. you have to couple all forces into one action.

what I am saying is nobody has gone far enough!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2010, 02:46:47 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2010, 03:23:29 AM »
In case you want to watch full screen,
instead of that size constrained box...

UPDATE:
This forum's new kernal doesn't recognise the extended ASCII characters in the eleven links I posted...

I yanked 'um for now until I can figure a workaround.

I am im possetion of all eleven and the SWF player,
I have them as a kit as backup, but the kit is 163-MB...
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 12:11:18 PM by CompuTutor »

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2010, 03:38:54 AM »
you mean this one?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 02:55:38 PM by onthecuttingedge2005 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2010, 03:38:54 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2010, 09:46:16 AM »
Hi folks, the old hat notion of why cant i buy one if its real, is really getting old and its not working to well anymore since people are thinking for themselves more and more. Folks, whether your hired to debunk or not, your colors are becoming more and more obvious. I would choose wisely to support humanity and not the interests of the few. With that said, i will be testing a small model of this. Right now, what i find interesting is the fact that when i put my neo magnets at the back of my coil/core and pulse to repel against the stator permanent magnet it nullifies all attraction to a piece of steel at other end. I'm not quite sure why this occurs, though i am giving it thought. At first glance, one would think that the magnetic field set up by the electromagnet to repel/nullify the stator permanent magnets field within the core would still attract the steel piece at the other end, but that does not happen, the coil/core acts as if it has no magnetic field at all. The combined magnetic field of the coil and permanent magnet is canceled. As simple as this is, i never ran quite this exact experiment to notice it and i believe that Bill Muller was doing something similar, as in one of his videos he shows a permanent magnet with a steel ball bearing attached and he lets another steel ball bearing be quickly attracted to the other steel ball and the first ball bearing attracted is violently repelled. Just a few thoughts.
peace love light
Tyson ;) :)

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2010, 11:23:39 AM »
'All forces' have not been netted in this persons demo and gross ratio after all forces have been accounted for. there is an error in his math by not using all netted forces in this demo. you can't net a force without netting all the forces, this is totally wrong and gives people the impression that it is that easy, it is not! I wish it was that easy and if it was there would be perpetual devices running all over the place even though there is not!

OK, I'm committing the same crime here...
By re-posting the reply...

Wow, dude,

But why in the world did you
quote me to cite social/forum issues?

You've always but right-up on all
the comments I have ever read,
perhaps you meant to quote
another person by mistake ?

All I provided was links with no opinion.

I've watched, your worth reasonable respect,
But I'm not part of the opposing discussion,
I'm a provider of reference links ONLY here.

Did I cross a boundary that
is new to cyber-futilism I don't know?

Oh, and this new forum "Update"
NOW can't use the extended ASCII
character to make vids 4-11 work...

I've tried like a zillion ways around it,
the video pack is only 163-MB,
but it is obvious I can't post it here.

No offense meant Edge for sure,
kinda don't get your reaction really.

For others, websites and data evaporate daily,
I download many forums daily as a defense,
(Not this one Stafan, hope that's not some new insult)
But I already downloaded the cores of gap-power.com

ONLY because I have learned data goes away eventually...

I may be on a balance beam on this,
I wage intellectual rights and property,
against loss of data period for all
that (It) was posted public...sue me.

More directly (As I want to participate)
I have three current running themes:

1 - Coils catch "Stuff" while fields collapse (Timing dependant)
2 - parallel path is prime application theory and proven
3 - Applying this to #1 yields off the charts possibilities !

OK, I just wanted to help with links and stuff,
I am now dragged into this opposition discusion
of beliefs that I see as no different in the first place!

This is not crap people, open your eyes!

Yup measurement (In vids) are also crap,
but that discovery even explains so anyway
SIMPLE fundamentals of observation.

Edge, your right in that they do not supply a secondary rotary plateau to run gauges from, but the straight-pull math IS CORRECT.

Both you an I are not dumb enough to fall for rotary to stationary axial measurements

I have tested parallel path variables, these forward looking statements are correct,
but yes your right, they are trying to apply them to rotary geometry.

Almost always a failure point...BUT,
replace that wheel with a section of a wheel (Lever),
and it makes sense what the thinking is, right?

his observations without judice
will yield faulty results and data.

Oh an I am on a hunt to find
(From 128 extended ASCII characters)
the correct value for "Space-Bar" for links.

I mean those that this forum (Software) engine will respect.

Meanwhile, in the interest of backing up
and not loosing "gap-power.com" to .GOV's.

Where can I supplant a 163-MB file,
without really short inactivity penalties?

OH, and would you (OnTheCuttingEdge)
please edit that post before you cannot.

Please remove my entire quote,
as it is faulty due to new forum issues.

I am going back and removing my post
(Until URL submissions are respected).

Maybe I'll host the twelve as archive,
but that would require the site's approval.

Sigh
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 12:16:22 PM by CompuTutor »

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2010, 11:29:32 AM »
OK, why can't I delete a double post here too?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 11:54:11 AM by CompuTutor »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2010, 11:29:32 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2010, 08:48:44 PM »
Here is one way to test this. Two identical coils on a soft iron core with
a magnet on. The core to the left is the output coil.

G.
Look's like this would make a great MEG just the way it is pulsed around 200Hz.

Offline LarryC

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2010, 11:36:20 PM »
Testing has shown what Art states in his pull test are true, but it does not seem to have any advantage over a DC Permanent magnet motor (shown below). Let's consider it a 1/4 HP motor. 

Comparable electromagnet only pull test:
Replace the magnets with metal arcs. The motor would still run, but the torque would be very low and could easily be stopped by hand.

Comparable magnets only pull test:
With the magnets in place and no power applied, the rotor would be hard to turn by hand.

Comparable magnet and electromagnet pull test (amplification):
With the magnets in place and power applied, the rotor would be impossible to stop by hand.

The nullification test does not apply because the rotor is almost all the way around and has tapered edges on the poles to reduce the magnetic lock-up effect.

The flux is being realigned or switched in both cases, but the DC PM motor has an advantage of a North to South pull connection thru the rotor.

So I will not attempt a replication. I'm normally trying to prove OU, but in this case it does not seem possible.

Regards, Larry


Offline ramset

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2010, 05:03:59 AM »
Larry,
Thank you for taking the time to investigate this and share your opinion.
Sure seemed like a good idea!

Chet

Offline LarryC

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2010, 12:14:58 AM »
Larry,
Thank you for taking the time to investigate this and share your opinion.
Sure seemed like a good idea!

Chet

You're wellcome Chet. My fun is in the analysis and the building.

I've included another scope shot for those who still wish to build. The blue trace is showing the magnetic flux at the face of the core in amplification mode using a pulse gen. It is much greater than the Em only mode, but I still believe it is a common DC PM motor characteristic where torque varies with magnet strength.

This test used 18V at .5A at 84.75 Hz using transformer core. A solid iron core would be slower at switching and may explain the unusual design of Art's motor. Large diameter to allow time for switching and to reduce heating losses. With transformer cores the motor would only need two outside magnetic poles and multiple (4,6,8) metal arc's on the rotor to produce the same results.

Regards, Larry 







Offline Xaverius

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2010, 08:01:49 AM »
You can go to a metal supply in the UK and get iron stock and have it annealed ( in an oven ) to a "dead soft" condition and it will work as well.
Dont annealed it then machine it - machine it then anneal it!
  @ Darkspeed, does Ed Fagan supply small orders of VimVar, as in 1" x 1" x 12"?  Also where can you get small parts annealed?  Thanx.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2010, 08:01:49 AM »

 

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