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Author Topic: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter  (Read 37749 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2010, 03:00:55 AM »
Larry
all I'm saying is this Gent [Darkspeed] is on this path, studying "parts" of this effect [re gauging],
and has done a lot of research and seems willing to share.

Quote

I did it with both static magnets and magnet in a rotating disk = same result


it does not matter if the material in the wheel is magnetic or not, the effect is the same.

It cancels the flux in the metallic core producing work

If you get the " gap " correct between the metallic core and the material in the wheel ( magnetic or not ) it will work

If the material in the wheel is magnetic and you get the gap set to a neutral flux location you can get more work out than if it was not magnetic
---------------------------------

Many hands make light work.

Chet

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Offline darkspeed

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2010, 03:14:08 AM »
I revised my response to ( ok almost exactly  ;D )

When energized, in the gap between the core and the material in the rotor (if non magnetic) there is a neutral zone where a balance is reached between the opposing magnet and coil. The voltage to produce this effect can be as narrow as .25v

Too much voltage or too little voltage and the balance will not result << this is very important!

It looks like the GAP is going beyond this balance and pushing the coil/core into attraction for most of the rotation and then into balance while the metal arcs pass the core.

When the material in the rotor is magnetic there is also a balance established between the repulsion of the domain at the end of the core caused by the PM and the magnet in the rotor..

To close and there is only attraction < blotch wall is moved too far inboard in the core
Too far and there is only repulsion > blotch wall is not moved in core

The magnacoaster way of doing it is very powerful, imagine 500+lb of neo force repelling the magnet in the rotor but at the cost of energizing the coil with a lot of amps for around 315deg of a 360deg rotation.



« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 04:36:10 AM by darkspeed »

Offline nightlife

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2010, 06:25:05 AM »
 I actually like this idea but feel some improvements are needed to get the best results.
 One would be collecting the energy from the collapsing fields and reusing it to lower the input consumption.
 I hate wasting poles so I must add an improvement to the design. I also don't like to waste the length or strength of attraction so for that I will add another improvement to the design.

 I will not agree and or disagree with this creating overuntity until a test is performed and proper data is collected but it does look promissing if it was designed properly.
 
 We are given the volts used but that is worthless unless the amps are provided as well. We need to know what the total wattage used is and we need the design to produce more watts then the watts used before we can claim overunity being achieved.
 We are supplied with the force created but we are not supplied with how much force is needed to to create the energy used to create the added force and or the neutralization.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2010, 06:36:12 AM »
Here is one way to test this. Two identical coils on a soft iron core with
a magnet on. The core to the left is the output coil.

G.


I think this is a good way to test this theory without building a motor.
I have some things to try it pretty close to what is shown.
But I have a feeling that they effect may be the same as getting the mag field to go from N to S as compared to no field to more field. The N and  S cause a revesal of poles, where the amplified magnet really only goes on and off. I would see the pole reversal as more happening than just on and off.

I will give it a go and see.  It may be just an Orbo type effect.  Imagine just a coil on a core and the rotor is attracted to the core, then the coil pulses a repulsion field just as the rotor meets the coil tdc. Almost the same thing, no?

Mags
Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2010, 04:13:46 PM »
Was thinking about it. The on function of attraction from the stator magnet, simulates a pretty long on time that doesnt even have to be paid for. Lts say skip the amplify mode for a second and just engage the turn off function as needed. The powerless stator mag attracted to a rotor mag, especially the long curved magnets he used in the motor, once the mags alone attract and glide after, no power was used from initial  attraction to the point of turning on the coil to just pass the sticky spot. An electric smot flux control. Well for that very small pulse during the gate passing, we shouldnt be using much. But to also power the coils once more through each cycle, during the amplify pulse, well 1 we are using more power than just electro smot. 2 will the output be more than if the rotor was magnetically pulled and pushed in place of just power consuming gate passings like orbo with a big push half of the time.
 Orbo is an electro smot, using power to pass the sticky spot.  For as many great smots out there, I could only imagine how little power it would take to keep some of them going. 

This motor is very interesting indeedy. But they all are at first.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2010, 04:13:46 PM »
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Offline LarryC

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2010, 06:57:42 PM »
@Chet,
Thanks, I understand.

@darkspeed,
Thanks for the information.

@All,

The amplification is only necessary when the metal arc is being attracted to the core. Once the beginning edge of the metal arc reaches the core the amplification can be turned off as the core slides along the metal arc. You can see how easy it slides in the videos. Then the neutralization is turned on as it gets near the end of the metal arc to slide pass. Thus the duty cycle need not be high. It really depends on how many sets of cores are used.

Now, this would require a lot of energy to overcome the massive Cemf, unless you use my secondary trick. Then you only have to have enough time for the core alignment.

IMG_0260 shows the core I used for the following scope shots. It is wound with two strands of wires. So I can power one and leave the second one open or shorted.

IMG_0263 shows the traces with the secondary open. Note the slope of the bottom trace(current), even with a 50% duty cycle the current does not reach the max.

IMG_0261 shows the traces with secondary shorted to create a max load effect. Note the current trace shoots up instantly because the shorted secondary removes the Cemf from the primary.

The secondary does not waste power, since a pulse is being sent and not a sine wave. Not shown, but the secondary traces are flat except for the spikes at the beginning and end. The secondary could be opened at the end of amplification to capture the massive back emf, since it should not effect the slide along the metal arc.

Regards, Larry

Offline darkspeed

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2010, 07:14:51 PM »


Thats a good idea Larry! Thats how all bifilar relays (solenoid) work, they short the second coil to kill the pulse.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2010, 07:14:51 PM »
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Offline LarryC

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2010, 09:32:10 PM »
@darkspeed,

Do you know the reason that Art would use a magnet diameter that is almost twice that of the core?

Also, do you know of any good reason to use low carbon steel for the core with all of it's problems, instead of more appropriate magnetic material. Art owns this place    http://www.tru-fitalignmentsolutions.com/tri-tube/index.html. So he would have a lot of steel pieces available.

Regards, Larry

Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2010, 10:59:04 PM »
@LarryC, I think  the idea is to have a soloniod / magnet/coil/core combination where the magnetic field can be in effect nullified conveniontly.

There are many fancy magnetic materials but for a cheap motor you would want cheap maagnets.

http://www.irm.umn.edu/hg2m/hg2m.pdf


Offline darkspeed

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2010, 12:01:43 AM »
@darkspeed,

Do you know the reason that Art would use a magnet diameter that is almost twice that of the core?

Also, do you know of any good reason to use low carbon steel for the core with all of it's problems, instead of more appropriate magnetic material. Art owns this place    http://www.tru-fitalignmentsolutions.com/tri-tube/index.html. So he would have a lot of steel pieces available.

Regards, Larry

The smaller diameter core allows for flux focus from the PM and too much core material becomes a problem when you try to shunt the flux in it.

Soft Iron has good permeability, acceptable hysteresis , and its easy to machine into shapes like that from bar or TUBE sections.
When i prototype something - out comes the soft iron stock - to play with. It works very well, but if you pulse it to fast it will get very hot. Actually the only thing better would be a metglass magamp bar but those are hard to come by.

He may be playing games with your brain.. what looks like a bar is not always a bar.. you cant see what is under the core.. it could be a tube with end caps OR IT COULD HAVE A FLUX GAP ;) ;) ;) hidden under there




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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2010, 12:01:43 AM »
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Offline LarryC

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2010, 09:33:17 PM »
Pull test setup using the coil/core shown in reply #20.

Battery used was a 18 volt Ryobi rechargeable.

Coil is 38.6 Ohms with 28 gauge wire and dimensions are 2 1/4" L by 2 1/8" OD by 1" ID.

Core is laminated silicon steel and is 3-1/4" long by 3/4" square.

Berkley digital scale for  lb oz measurement.

Each magnet in the stack is 1" diameter by 1/4" thick N45 neos.

Impressive results. The energy gain of going from 3 to 5 magnets is massive.
I don't think Art is playing any games as it was easy to get similar results without the same relative proportions as Art's.

Regards, Larry

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2010, 10:23:23 PM »
Did he mentioned the power used to fire those electromagnets? He says 18 volts, but nothing about the ampéres. Anyway, it seams strange that the electromagnet only provide 4,4 punds of force while it at the same time can neutrilize the magnetic force which is greater than that.

I think that the magnets itself add more magnetic matter into the electromagnet, and therefor the electromagnet is more efficient when the magnets are attached. So the actual resistance is greater or different, and the amplification is misleading as the magnets also is a part of the magnetic conducting matter in the electromagnet - as the magnets are removed during the electromagnet test only. What if he had replaced the magnets with the same amount and shape of iron? What would the readings say then?

I think the readings are found on the wrong basis.

Vidar

Offline darkspeed

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2010, 11:18:38 PM »


Glad to hear you got it going!

A neo mfg. once told me that each neo stacked is roughly a 40% increase in strength

so 100lb + 100lb stacked should equal about 140lb pull


Offline LarryC

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2010, 11:52:46 PM »
Since it seems that the people with magnetic simulators are not watching, would someone please download the trial version of Vizimag 3.18, but only if you haven't used it before. It is very simple and easy to use, but my trial period is over.

If anyone does download, please say so here right away, so others don't waste their trial.

By doing the simulation and showing the results here, it would help members understand how little energy is required to redirect the flux in Art's setup.

Regards, Larry

Offline penno64

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Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2010, 12:22:02 AM »
Hey Larry,

Have just downloaded and installed 3.18

Regards, Penno

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic amplification and neutralization motor by Art Porter
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2010, 12:22:02 AM »

 

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