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Author Topic: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts  (Read 81857 times)

Offline amigo

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2010, 03:42:22 AM »
Hi Stefan,

I'm not Plengo by the way. :)

Check this link, though it might have some pages missing:

http://books.google.com/books?id=xFp0fA6uIT8C&lpg=PP1&dq=induction%20coils%20how%20to%20make%20them&pg=PA178#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2010, 03:31:05 AM »
I added the next 12 Videos,
which I recorded already late last month , but now have
been cutted and uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/user/overunitydotcom


Offline fritz

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2010, 11:01:35 PM »
Hi Harti !

Nice Cell.

BTW: I would use some more serious meter for your measurements.
Especially on videos.
I own the same thing - but would deny ownership if somebody asks ;-))
There is no indication of low battery - and in that case it will display almost anything...
rgds.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2010, 12:32:07 AM »
Hi Fritz,
I verified the voltages with a second analog meter.

Will try to scale this all up soon to more power output.

Regards, Stefan.


Offline budden

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2010, 12:55:59 PM »
Sorry for off-topic.
Quote
have you tried using two different forms of carbon as a battery, 1. Graphite, 2. Charcoal, add an electrolyte and see if a Galvanic reaction takes place?
One can produce electricity from Fe and C, NaOH _melt_ is an electrolyte. Temperature is above 400C. Air should be supplied with a nozzle into NaOH melt with added MgO and H2O vapour. C and NaOH are consumed. Total reactions are:
C+O2=CO2
2NaOH+CO2=Na2CO3+H2O, second reaction seem to be much slower, but it kills element in a time. Some researchers say they could prevent this.

See www.sara.com, http://www.rexresearch.com/jacques/jacques.htm , search Direct Coal Fuel Cell on the net.

This is not an overunity device. It is just a fuel cell with an efficiency of 30-60%. But this seem to be the simpliest fuel cell which was ever invented.

It was invented in 1896 by William Jacques, US patent 555511 (visit patent office to find patent).

I'm undertaking experiments with the kind of fuel cell for a time. For now, I'm pretty sure it really does work, but I still failed to achieve sufficient power density. My power density is about 8W/l, element life is 3-4 hours, while Jacques and SARA state they have achieved 30W/l with element life of hunrdeds hours.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2010, 12:55:59 PM »
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Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2010, 09:18:25 AM »
Hi,
I just discovered this thread ! It's here that I should post about alu-graphite batteries !
Thanks Stephan, and congratulations for your discovery of this powerful combination !

Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2010, 09:45:05 AM »
Mk1 posted a very interesting document on graphite-alu battery on the "Working Air Battery"
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=396

It's using graphite pencils and added graphite powder for a very high output.
It has a comparative and careful study of several electrolyte mixes !
Results are impressive, but I don't know what they use as binding material for the powder ?!
I tried several products, but they lower the conductivity of the electrode.
Graphite pencils have a resistance around 10 to 20 Ohms, while the binded powder is at 20 k Ohms !
Any suggestion about the glue they use in this document ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2010, 09:45:05 AM »
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Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2010, 09:50:08 AM »
I am very enthusiastic about this design. It could use alu cans or alu foil.
The power output being good and the alu cheap, that would be an important alternative for lighting shack in poor area !
To stop the process during the day, we can have the electrolyte removed, like this for example:

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2010, 09:58:52 AM »
Why not use the best galvanic difference we can get easily?  I mean graphite and magnesium? I know Stefan was using Al foil as it is cheap and very easy to get and replace but, if one really wants to do this why not use the above mentioned materials?

Note:  These are the same materials I have been using on my earth battery, or EER, for the past 2 years.

Jeanna has been doing some great work using an electrolyte that keeps the degradation of the magnesium to a minimum.

Anyway, this is a great area of study and I enjoy seeing what folks are working with and their results.

Bill

Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2010, 10:14:41 AM »
@Pirate
Thanks for your comments.
My problem is to find magnesium in shack areas, because this ribbon is really not available everywhere.
Of course for use as safety battery, then we can stock some magnesium ribbon.

Advantage of aluminum is that it's everywhere in this world, being old cola can or cooking foil.
It's the same cost for 75 feet of magnesium ribbon than 25 meter square of aluminum foil.
But the main thing is that aluminum is available everywhere, so people can build this battery model by themselves, or at least recharge them by their own, just coiling a piece of foil or a can.

I saw on the excellent chart you linked http://www.thelenchannel.com/1galv.php that there was not much difference between alu and magnesium, 0.67V, at least they are both of high value and in the top of the chart.
But for a DIY battery for township area, I will focus on aluminum-graphite. Pencils and foil/can.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2010, 10:14:41 AM »
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Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2010, 10:45:06 AM »
Found some data about the electrolyte used by this Hong Kong student (see doc linked above)
According to Wikipedia, 1 mol of table salt NaCl is 58.4g
1 mol of sodium hydroxide NaOH is 40g.

2 electrolyte are cited as good ones in the doc, both use 1 mol of salt (58.4g), and one has 0.5 mol (20g) of NaOH page 31, while the other only 0.1 mol of NaOH (4g) page 42. Make your own choice ...

NaOH is widely used as soap/detergent/bleach. Cost is less than 2 USD per kilo in many countries. You can find it in food market for cleaning, textile manufacture for whitening, ... And also in supermarket as drain opener, and for agriculture/gardening purpose.

Sorry if you feel that I hijack the thread, but that data might be useful as reference for new comers, and because I feel this battery concept is worth the investigation.

The main problem is the graphite electrode, as we want large surface area for less material. With good conductivity. The Hong Kong student added some powder to their graphite pencils and got better current output, I wonder what glue they used for such good results ??

Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2010, 11:02:46 AM »
A last post for today resuming my last question to go further: What is the right glue to use with the graphite powder, for best conductivity (must also be a none corrosive material) ???


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2010, 12:31:51 AM »
Hi Stephen and all,
you can use an acryllic binder which is used for painter´s purposes
as the binder.
It has the advantage, that it is waterproof !
So when it has hardened, it is not soluable anymore in water ( electrolyte)

I am using it for my experiments and it is great.

But you can also try out black carbon copy paper.

It is only the surface area of the graphite that counts,
so it does not depend how thick the material is,
so thin sheets of black lampblack imprinted carbon copy
paper should also work great.

Lampblack is one of the best conductive graphite powders.
So use this, it is cheap and can also be got from the painter´s shop.

@Pirate,
yes, Magnesium is the best and powerful
metal for the other electrode, but it is pretty expensive and you can
not get it everywhere, so I prefer to see, how to best build
alufoil-graphite-paper cells with good output power and longer lasting.

As alufoil could be got in every supermarket and it is cheap, it is the ideal
cheap electrode material.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2010, 12:37:51 AM »
P.S: I also tried Cement with lampblack and graphite,
but cement as the binder does not work well with the graphite or
lampblack.
It does not get hard very well and when it is
dry again after hardened  the resistance of this cement-graphite electrode is very high and not useable
for batteries.
I also tried to mix in sand, but this does not help to get it hardended and shatterproof.
It crumbles pretty easily, so in my experience it is not usable and the high resistance
is bad.

Regards, Stefan.


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2010, 01:15:33 AM »
Quote from: stephenafreter link=topic=8782.msg247636#msg247636 =1278143105
Mk1 posted a very interesting document on graphite-alu battery on the "Working Air Battery"
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=396



Many thanks for this very good document.

It also contains the experiment with a selfbuild Fuel Cell that runs on Alcohol.
They found out that using ethanol alcohol produced the best electrical output.

So that is very interesting.
As ethanol is the drinking alcohol it can be produced very easily in good quantities.
As this one cell produced already 85 Milliwatts this could be probably scaled up
with a bigger surface stack of these cells to a  KiloWatts easily.
The only problem is to find cheaper electrodes for it.

So if you need power, then you go to your supermarket and buy a bottle
of 40 % Vodka or in your pharmacy or drug store and get isopropyl alcohol
and you have power again.
Would be interesting, how long these cells lasts, if you only feed them in ethanol
all the time.
Does one have to refuel also the NaOH again or does this work
more like a catalyst ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Graphite-Paper - Aluminium-Foil galvanic cell with 1.7 to 1.92 Volts
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2010, 01:15:33 AM »

 

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