I am trying to get some prototype toroids machine wound.

As most of you here have much more experience with JT's than I, would you please list the exact specs of the toroids if you were to be able to have them machine wound? Like the dream toroid.

This would be the primary JT toroid bifilar. Probably like .75 inch OD

Material
Wire thickness
# of windings.

Please keep in mind we do not need to be practical here. Not many people will wind 1000 turns... but these machines will do it in minutes!

I will be looking for like three to begin with. Then testing. I will mass produce the final ones if anybody wants some... I am very lucky to have a manufacturer right in my home town who is willing to work with me. Please allow me to pass this advantage to the community as well.

I am meeting with them next week.

Thanks in advance.
UZ

I doubt that  you  will get many responses on this.
For one thing.....there is no ideal toroid.
What works great for one application might not work well at all  for another.
The people that are building would probably rather build than spend time rewriting what they have already  posted .

All the details  you are looking for are already here.
It just takes a little digging

Another point.
Does  your manufacturer have access to the exact same toroids that people are using here?
A JT with the same wire and windings  made  with a different toroid will probably   perform much differently

I make a perfect JT you have to get to know your toroid
You have to know it enough to be able  to predict about what voltage  you will get with a particular number of  windings.

If I was  in your place  I would  get some toroids from your friend......then I would  start building .....
I think I would  start a new thread .......so when I did go to sell them I would not have to ask  people to read 1000 pages to understand what is  going on.
I would  pick  a project  and  see how well I could  get it done  with the  toroids  your friend has  available.
For  example ....... a Jeanna light  might  be a good project.
I think  a Jeanna light  could be made with a smaller  toroiod than the " official Jeanna light.

I would  document  the entire  procerss on  the new thread.......including  how long each new version will  light a CFL  then ..... when I  had  it working  really well........  then I see no reason  that  it could not be sold ...........maybe as a kit on ebay
 
gary

Unzapped

I thought about it a few minutes.

Are you able to market your  prewound  toroid?

I Think it  would  be great if you could put together a kit for a Jeanna light or something.
If I was not into making JTs I would think about getting one........provided   I could see that it worked.
So to me ....... documenting  the whole process is key.

I was planning on  building a few  versions of the Jeanna light this week ... so I will be posting my findings.

Anyway

I can not tell you  how to do it .............but if you do it remotely lilke I  have described it I think it would be great .
And it would  be a great way to get the word out  that there is more to energy  than we have been taught.

gary

Hi Gadget,
I would like to say something about the toroids we have been using.
Those ones we get from goldmine have a great deal of variance which may be the very reason they are at the goldmine and not at a bonafide distributor.
They may be from a heap of same size unknown permeability kind of thing.
I have never like them and maybe that is because the 5 I got were all lower permeability than some that you got.

I am hoping that if we can standardize this a little we will get more consistent results.
This is the reason I was talking to MMI
Mouser sells a smaller kind with an actual permeability as part of the description.

Unzapped, can you get 11,000 permeability?

This is the number you need to ask for from your friend.
It will be in a ferrite and not in the epoxied powdered kind.

I just got a small burn from the end of my secondary!!
I might be getting somewhere... not that I like getting burned, but...

thank you,

jeanna

@all this dialog is exactly the information I was looking for... Lets start with the perfect jeanna light coil. 11,000 permeability, diameter?, ferrite core only, 330 turn secondary (guage?), 11 turn primary (guage?).

I know I could look through thousands of pages to "get close" But I want something consistant.

I am sure I can get whatever is available.

My goal is not to mass produce toroids. But to create sellable kits... Like my Unzapped Cell.

I would also like to produce a jeanna light kit, and possibly a candle powered emergency light. All three will need different toroids. But I think they will all mostly be the same... less turn on secondary, etc...

Maybe even eventually battery reviver.

BTW I have been digging for hours now trying to find the jeanna light circuit... could someone please post a link to one for me...
Thanks
UZ

@all this dialog is exactly the information I was looking for... Lets start with the perfect jeanna light coil. 11,000 permeability, diameter?,

I used the OW48613TC from MMI.
It is 3.35 inches OD (86==86mmOD x 13mm=height)
Other companies make these and maybe your friend's company has some too.
I have another that works which is OW46113TC and it is 2 1/2 inches and 13mm height.
The permeability of the W is around 14,000 on this one and for some reason that has to do with OD this matters, but I dunno.

ferrite core only, 330 turn secondary (guage?)

I used 28 awg.
Lidmotor used radioshack red which is awg 30. I prefer not to use the rs red for these because the varnish is too thin and breaks occur too easily. One break in the varnish and your coil has a lower voltage. And to make it worse, the spark may be sooo small you cannot see it.

, 11 turn primary (guage?).

The gauge I use is awg 24
On the big ones I use telephone 24 g wire with its thick plastic coating.
On dressed up tiny little ones I use awg24 varnished wire.
It IS possible that the amps draw will change with a fatter or thinner wire.
..

My goal is not to mass produce toroids. But to create sellable kits... Like my Unzapped Cell.

This is so wonderful
I could ask also if you were interested in stocking the toroids for us(=experimenters) to buy from you unwound, because we are faced with a $30 minimum for a  toroid purchase from the MMI distributor that I found .

I would also like to produce a jeanna light kit, and possibly a candle powered emergency light. All three will need different toroids. But I think they will all mostly be the same... less turn on secondary, etc...

Maybe even eventually battery reviver.

Oh how the world can change! yeay!!

BTW I have been digging for hours now trying to find the jeanna light circuit... could someone please post a link to one for me...

Here is the most basic version on my desktop.
Bill just gave the specs and here is how it can be drawn.
I believe it is what you need.

Remember to remove that light between the C and E of the transistor after you find that the circuit is soldered properly.
The only lights should be between the wires of the secondary.
Start with 3 turns only, when checking a new toroid.
Expect about 7v for each led and remember there is often a polarity with the secondary.

thank you,

jeanna

Nice,
Have them leave about 1/5 of the toroid unwound max.
It is safer to leave 1/4 but with a small toroid, there are limitations.
Cool!

Are they willing to make you machine wound samples so readily?
That is very convenient.


And there is a big difference in the transistors.
The flashlights do best with the 2N2222 or 2N3904. They do best because they use the least amount of mA from the battery.
The power to get the super high volts comes from the TIP3055 or the TIP31. (I think the 31 uses less mA.) All of these are available from radioshack, so see which ones your local one carries for now.

Also in the end you use a plain resistor, but for now it is best to use a pot. rs has 2k pots, I think.
Well they have enormous ones but a 1K pot is the best for this, and when you get it right which will be different with each set-up, then you can put in a regular one for the kit.

I am having a really fun time with the LoA 20leds bulbs. They are a lot brighter than the cfl and easier to start.
These are rated as 40w equivalent, but theylie. Really they are about 20w equivalent (in the wall).

I am making a video now so I will check back.

jeanna

...
So I'm over here now and not sure where to ask.
..... so the question is,
Large Ferrite Rings, or Toroids, seem to be difficult to find.

Can I just use a large ferrite ring magnet?  or a small one for that matter?
Becuase I have a lot of those laying around.
...

Is there a reason you have not tried this?
My answer is always... there is only one way to know.

The large toroids are not necessary in any way.
They might be if you want to get over 800 volts, but so far, I have a 3/4 inch toroid that is getting me 600-800spiky volts.
That is in part because I am using the heftier transistor.
Those draw more amps into circulation and it is my speculation that this is why they get higher volts.
The circuit made with the same toroid and everything else but with a 2N3904, or 2N2222 will only get 250v. Now that is still enough to light a neon.
And, I will say it took me nearly a year to get good enough to wind it to get that.

BUT...

If you use the leds in parallel and mix a little series in there, you can both protect the leds and light many with high frequency looow volts.
See my globe lamp video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1KxE_87MLs which uses 24 leds soldered in a series string of 6 with each led having 3 other leds spldered to it making each led the same as 4, therefore there are 6 leds with the brightness of 24.

Carry that to another level, if you make one with 50 leds you will have the light equivalent of a 50 watt light bulb, that runs for 12 hours on a single AAA battery or much longer on a AA.

Just start.
You need the practice.
I say that because everyone needs the practice.

And please have fun!!,

jeanna

OK, great, and I am right there with you.
The only way to get a handle on this is to get your hands on it.
It would be like watching an advanced art video with special brushes that have techniques that are different from basic brush techniques, but you never picked up a regular brush.
You do not need to do this much, but it really helps to understand what the heck someone is saying.
I will take your q's :

Reason being, a low budget

Did you see my little thing on jt 101 about using the cfl inside toroid?
This is cheap or free depending on if you have any cfl's on hand or if a neighbor is throwing one away.

also have too many projects going ;0(

I can relate to that one.

Ok, and unlike a regular transformer, which shouldn't work with straight DC anyway,
this not only spikes to mimic a pulsing, allowing transformer type action to occur

Almost.
The spikes are the result of the pulses and the pulses are the result of the center tapped toroid.
The spikes are normally filtered out and so there is scarcely any info on them.
If you call them bemf, some people feel they must correct you.
If you can, watch the lecture 16 from MIT physics 802 taught by Walter Lewin.
He is a great teacher and he can explain the regular thing and why.
The back spikes happen as a result of lenz law when it is all turning around at the moment the transistor turns off, but then turns on again.

that voltage really isn't
governed by the number of turns?

One of the factors that adds to the level of the voltage is the number of turns.
Another is the speed of the switching. [again walter lewin lecture 16]

In other words, If I want a larger Ferrite ring for more amps,...
... then just use a step down
transformer to acheive a steady but beefy 12 volts ?

Here I would refer you to Bill Beaty on amps. His is the closest I know of to what I realized a year ago.
You must stop thinking you need amps.
Amps is a rate of joules per second going either way on a wire.
It does not matter which direction nor how often the direction changes, it is a rate of joules passing a point in time.
So, in a dc set up, it all goes one way, and you lose it all. Like water over a waterfall. Once it is down, you need to haul it back up.
But if you picture a beach wave, and capturing the motion of the same amount of water moving both ways, you can see it is your choice...
You can capture the water going over the falls, or going back and forth. It is much cheaper and easier to use the waves.

...., and have
more amps that I started with?, ...to run that motor?

Check out bedini. He got it, and you can too. His is not a joule thief, but close, so check it out.

Also, when a transistor is used as a switch, does that mean it is turning on and off rapidly?,
repeatedly?

yes

By itself?

no. xee2 described this very well. I am sure he will be happy to repeat it on the jt thread.

Relays are more mechanical, even though they are electromagnetic, they physically move the bar open and closed, noisy too.

...
If I remove either the Resistor, or the Transistor, or both, will it still spike or pulse somewhat
due to the wire turn configuration? (Will a secondary used as a transformer still work?)

This is why I am trying to understand the mag amp. So far, no smiles, but I am persistent.
It is possible, I just do not know how...yet.

I hope some of this helps either you or someone else who happens to read this.
But, really... make a simple joule thief  then make another one with a secondary as I described in the post on jt101 last night, then go from there.
You will have 2 very useful things. They are not JUST an exercise. You can use both of them for different purposes.
But this will get you started.

And, thanks for asking these questions.

jeanna