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# New Book

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### Author Topic: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power  (Read 133682 times)

#### FatChance!!!

• Full Member
• Posts: 197
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 07:56:58 AM »
I don't want to spoil your hopes but this design is nothing but a regular electric motor
being run sideways like a piston instead of circular movement.
As we all know, the force from an electric motor is determined by the the sum of the
input current x input voltage minus the losses (mostly I2R).
As your coil slides along the magnetic field an induced voltage is formed.
The faster the coil moves the higher the induced voltage. In your case the movement is
very slow and the induced voltage is small and so is the torque output.
The efficiency of an motor is determined by the difference of the induced voltage and
applied voltage and current. The loss is explained by I x I x R, namely I2R.
the input power increasing as the RPM drops like a rock.

But I have to admit it's a really cool design. Keep up the good work.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 07:56:58 AM »

#### gyulasun

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3473
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 09:59:00 AM »
Okay I see,

it would work but one thing to consider in wattsup's design is maybe the quick launch (at desired time) may cause a braking of the wheel at that timing point???

Luc

Yes but perhaps the braking effect (i.e. the reaction for the quick launch action) could be kept acting mainly onto the shaft in the radial direction, I mean the launch should take place just after passing the 12 o'clock position, this way the braking effect on the rotation of the wheel will be at the minimum possible.  (the later you launch from the just vertical passing position the bigger the breaking effect is if the RPM is not high I think, maybe wrongly?).

The braking effect is inherently included in wattsup's design anyway, my suggestion for some improvement in lessening input power does not change this, unfortunately.

Gyula

#### magnetman12003

• Hero Member
• Posts: 726
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2009, 03:38:53 AM »
Hi I am working on a similar idea but the reverse of what you have illustrated.

I posted this on U tube and its not perfected yet. Right now I am making a reciprocating magnetic arrangement that uses two magnets on one shaft. I used one magnet in this video. Also will use two coils. I have reached speeds up to 1560 RPM with torque so far. Hope to better the speed to 3,000.  My design is powered by a 30 volt peak to peak square wave. I adjust the motor speed with variable low frequencys.

When I feel I have enough motor torque I will be finished working on it. That takes it into something that can be usefull rather than a curiosity which it is presently.

I love your design. We think in reciprocating directions.

Tom

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2890
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2009, 05:58:46 AM »
Nice work Tom

Thanks for sharing

Luc

#### Thaelin

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 921
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2009, 05:48:24 PM »
I keep trying to see this vid and it always says
removed by author? Still there or gone. Would like
to see it.

thay

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2009, 05:48:24 PM »

#### powercat

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1091
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2009, 05:57:33 PM »
Hi thay
Here are the two videos, I hope Luc doesn't mind me posting them
Mostly Permenent Magnet Motor test 1
Mostly Permenent Magnet Motor test 2

cat

#### gyulasun

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3473
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2009, 06:17:52 PM »
Cat,

I am affraid thalin wishes to see the video user magnetman linked to in his Reply#17 here in this thread, previous page.
Now I also get 'video removed by user', two days ago or so it was still there.

Gyula

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2009, 06:17:52 PM »

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2890
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2009, 06:21:05 PM »
Here are all the links to videos I have made relating to this topic.

Mostly Permenent Magnet Motor test 1

Mostly Permenent Magnet Motor test 2

Electromagnet Atraction vs Repel mode test 1

Generator Coil test 1

Generator Coil test 2b

#### magnetman12003

• Hero Member
• Posts: 726
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2009, 05:19:41 AM »
Cat,

I am affraid thalin wishes to see the video user magnetman linked to in his Reply#17 here in this thread, previous page.
Now I also get 'video removed by user', two days ago or so it was still there.

Hi, I removed all my videos on the U tube except three of them. My last video is a summation of all my work so far and by far is the best motor device I ever constructed. It works on a reciprocating basis also.  Here is the link to my SWING  MOTOR 360. I also have this link posted on the first page of magnet motors in this forum.

I am 64298 on U tube.

Tom   magnetman12003
Gyula

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2890
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2009, 02:03:15 AM »
Hi everyone,

I just uploaded a new video to compare the difference between magnets passing in front of a coil (standard generator coil) compared to passing on the side of the coil. I decided to use the test apparatus I already had instead of investing more time and money before we know if there are any advantages. Can someone that is good in calculating AC power please write down the numbers from the video and do the calculations as I don't know how with AC.

Also, keep in mind that the sideways coil test could be double the output if we had magnet running on the other side of the coil. This needs to be considered since in the standard generator coil test they were hitting each sides of the coil.

I will make another video to test the double coil configuration to see if this gives an advantage.

Luc

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2009, 02:03:15 AM »

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2890
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2009, 05:22:12 AM »
Hi everyone,

here is the next video test 4 with the dual coil setup.

I don't know why I can't seem to get the results I had when I first found this effect and tested by holding the coils by hand.

I'll try and retest in case I missed something:thinking: ... let me know if you see something I missed.

Luc

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2890
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2012, 01:02:28 AM »
Hi everyone,

it has been over 2 years since I fist started this topic about a AC Permanent Magnet Motor Design idea I had that its motive force would mostly come from Permanent magnets.

Maybe I didn't explain all the design advantages well enough when I fist introduced it so I decided to build a small prototype and do a better video. In this video I demonstrate the design idea I had 2 years ago of bridging over the opposite pole of the Magnet using steel lamination over the outside of the coil.  This takes advantage of the coils outside opposite field which close to doubles the motive force without using additional current..

Please keep in mind that the coil I'm using in this demo model maybe far from optimum. I still need to learn about coil time constant. There are also many other details that could be optimized. So I think it would be fair to say that the motive force could be doubled without additional current input.

I need to learn more about how to calculate the ideal coil resistance and turns for a particular on time, voltage and frequency. So if anyone can see obvious things from the scope shots that the coils on time power is being wasted (not making a strong field) please advise me.
I also need to learn the proper specs for making a Pony Brake to do some load tests.

Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor Part A:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYoXmDvFqQs

Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor Part B:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnAeIE_NWjU

Luc

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2890
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2012, 03:28:45 PM »
Here are some scope shots.

Please note that the test below is to determined how much this mostly magnet motor is affected by the Generator effect. I am not trying to make a Generator out of it.

The first shot is with the motor working on a 1.3vdc input through a 1 Ohm shunt Resistor in series with probe 1 connected across it and probe 2 is across the coil. Both probe grounds are on the same side of the Resistor (standard current and voltage phase setup). Math function is on probe 1 x probe 2

The next shot is to test the motor as Generator, so now the mostly magnet motor coil is connected to a 10 Ohm load with probe 1 connected across the 1 Ohm series shunt and probe 2 is the voltage across the coil (same as above). I'm using the 12vdc motor (attached to flywheel) as primed mover. The input to the 12vdc motor is 380ma @ 12.63vdc = 4.8 Watts to turn it at the speed of the 2nd scope shot below. It looks to me that at that RPM (which is faster then the previous test) the Generator coil is outputting around 0.070 Watts

To me it looks like the mostly magnet motor is not a good Generator considering the amount of input energy needed to the prime mover. However, we need to keep in mind that the 12vdc motor is operating at a much lower RPM then it was designed for, so it could get better. However there seems to be quite a difference.

Details on the Coil:
The mostly magnet motor coil has 4 Ohms DC resistance, made of about 0.8mm to 0.9mm magnet wire, wound bifilar connected in series. It has 19 milli Henry when at each ends of the core and 22.5 milli Henry when at center of core. The actual coil size (not including bobbin) opening is 14mm x 20mm and is 17mm wide

Luc
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 05:36:49 PM by gotoluc »

#### aaron5120

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 75
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2012, 03:52:26 PM »
Gotoluc,
Hi my friend, I did not notice your design two years ago, but it just caught my attention today. After looking at your YT clips, my conclusion is : very interesting.
Your conception indeed does have validity in utilizing the magnet power and the flux concentrating characteristic of the steel( or ferrite) bars to multiply the force exerted by the moving coil.
I think using the motor to drive the device is a bad idea. This is because you are wasting the input power to overcome the magnets, rather, may I suggest that the flywheel be attached to a DC generator or AC alternator, using the multiplied torque to spin it. I think you will find the output be almost 4 times more than the input( as a minimum rule of thumb).
This is a very efficient piston motor, and you can stack several magnetic "pistons" to the flywheel like a  modern Internal combustion engine does, and drive a big conventional generator with the crankshaft.
The last thing needed to be optimized will be to reduce heat loss due to eddy currents in the steel laminate bars when power goes up. But if speed is maintained in low level, this issue can be ignored. Once again, congratulations, Gotoluc, for disclosing this invention publicly. Now it belongs to the whole Humanity and not to the power that be.

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2890
##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2012, 05:53:25 PM »
Gotoluc,
Hi my friend, I did not notice your design two years ago, but it just caught my attention today. After looking at your YT clips, my conclusion is : very interesting.
Your conception indeed does have validity in utilizing the magnet power and the flux concentrating characteristic of the steel( or ferrite) bars to multiply the force exerted by the moving coil.
I think using the motor to drive the device is a bad idea. This is because you are wasting the input power to overcome the magnets, rather, may I suggest that the flywheel be attached to a DC generator or AC alternator, using the multiplied torque to spin it. I think you will find the output be almost 4 times more than the input( as a minimum rule of thumb).
This is a very efficient piston motor, and you can stack several magnetic "pistons" to the flywheel like a  modern Internal combustion engine does, and drive a big conventional generator with the crankshaft.
The last thing needed to be optimized will be to reduce heat loss due to eddy currents in the steel laminate bars when power goes up. But if speed is maintained in low level, this issue can be ignored. Once again, congratulations, Gotoluc, for disclosing this invention publicly. Now it belongs to the whole Humanity and not to the power that be.

Hi aaron5120,

thank you for your enthusiastic post.

You have misunderstood! ... I plan to use this as a motor!

It is Stefan that asked me to do the test with the scope shot above (on youtube comments) to see how much the Generator effect will effect this motor design. Since it is failing to be a good Generator this could be a positive thing. I added a comment at the beginning of that post so this does not happen again.
.
You are also thinking that in this motor design the coil needs to overcome the magnets. This is not correct! ... in this design there is absolutely no magnet drag on the coil or any sticky spots. Generator effect and Eddy currents would be the only drag. However, I have a feeling it will work best at low frequency so Eddy currents should be minimal.

Luc

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2012, 05:53:25 PM »