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Availbale Products, Material- and Service suppliers => Do It Yourself => Topic started by: Steven Dufresne on December 03, 2009, 06:15:07 PM
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Hi All,
I'm trying to make a new voltage multiplier board for one of my power supplies so that I can get negative HV from it instead of positive HV. I've attached a drawing of the simple changed circuit that I think will do it below but I'm not an electronics expert. Can someone who knows better tell me if I got it right? Note, I used electron flow instead of conventional current since that's the way I think.
Thanks,
Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
PS. It's for my Hyde generator project:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/hyde_generator/index.htm
It's basically a big capacitor with rotors and stator in between the plates. Previously I was using HV+ on one plate and ground on the other. I want HV+ on one plate and HV- on the other instead. I'll use separate power supplies for HV+ and HV-, both relative to ground.
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Hi All,
I'm trying to make a new voltage multiplier board for one of my power supplies so that I can get negative HV from it instead of positive HV. I've attached a drawing of the simple changed circuit that I think will do it below but I'm not an electronics expert. Can someone who knows better tell me if I got it right? Note, I used electron flow instead of conventional current since that's the way I think.
Thanks,
Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
PS. It's for my Hyde generator project:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/hyde_generator/index.htm
It's basically a big capacitor with rotors and stator in between the plates. Previously I was using HV+ on one plate and ground on the other. I want HV+ on one plate and HV- on the other instead. I'll use separate power supplies for HV+ and HV-, both relative to ground.
see here:
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/science/high_voltage/voltage_mult.htm
http://www.celnav.de/hv/hv3.htm
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Hi All,
I'm trying to make a new voltage multiplier board for one of my power supplies so that I can get negative HV from it instead of positive HV. I've attached a drawing of the simple changed circuit that I think will do it below but I'm not an electronics expert. Can someone who knows better tell me if I got it right? Note, I used electron flow instead of conventional current since that's the way I think.
Thanks,
Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
PS. It's for my Hyde generator project:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/hyde_generator/index.htm
It's basically a big capacitor with rotors and stator in between the plates. Previously I was using HV+ on one plate and ground on the other. I want HV+ on one plate and HV- on the other instead. I'll use separate power supplies for HV+ and HV-, both relative to ground.
Hi,
just reverse the diodes... your idea is fine but make sure you limit the output current if you just need the volts!!!
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Thanks @wings and @crowclaw! And good idea re limiting the current. I'm not sure if I need just voltage but I may try that too.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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see here:
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/science/high_voltage/voltage_mult.htm
http://www.celnav.de/hv/hv3.htm
With regards to the multiplier pictured, what kind of rating do those capacitors need to be?
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With regards to the multiplier pictured, what kind of rating do those capacitors need to be?
for the big generator all the informations below the picture.
for the small ion generator see this circuit that have also resistors current limitation.
Danger high voltage !!!!
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Hi All,
I'm trying to make a new voltage multiplier board for one of my power supplies so that I can get negative HV from it instead of positive HV. I've attached a drawing of the simple changed circuit that I think will do it below but I'm not an electronics expert. Can someone who knows better tell me if I got it right? Note, I used electron flow instead of conventional current since that's the way I think.
Thanks,
Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
PS. It's for my Hyde generator project:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/hyde_generator/index.htm
It's basically a big capacitor with rotors and stator in between the plates. Previously I was using HV+ on one plate and ground on the other. I want HV+ on one plate and HV- on the other instead. I'll use separate power supplies for HV+ and HV-, both relative to ground.
@Steven
Your circuit looks okay to me.
I think the same way in terms of electron flow, too.
Question: Did you do that to your finger in the picture? Your finger?
@all
Try and watch out for your body parts when using high current levels around Cockroft-Walton voltage bridges/multipliers.
--Lee
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for the big generator all the informations below the picture.
for the small ion generator see this circuit that have also resistors current limitation.
Danger high voltage !!!!
Take a look at this:
http://www.emo.org.tr/ekler/a07bcc79f21590b_ek.pdf
In really big systems, very high value resistors(1 megohm) can be paralleled with the capacitors.
Also,
http://www.blazelabs.com/CWdesign.pdf
A certain amount of balanced resonance should be needed for proper component selection.
--Lee
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@Steven
Your circuit looks okay to me.
I think the same way in terms of electron flow, too.
Question: Did you do that to your finger in the picture? Your finger?
--Lee
Thanks Lee. And that picture was from @wings, his finger.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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Hi Guys,
The new HV- multiplier board went pretty fast but it took me a while to document what I did. It works great though. I did only a single stage because I wanted to get as low as my power supply could put out so I can get as low as -1.3kV. I don't know what the high end is.
My purpose in doing this was so that I can charge up a capacitor with HV+ on one side and HV- on the other, instead of the usual HV+ to ground. So I tested this new board/power supply in combination with my 30kV positive power supply. My test had -1.4kV from one PSU with +1.84kV from the other PSU for a potential difference of 3.24kV. However, both the variacs I have for feeding the 30kV PSU are sometimes arcing inside causing unwanted noise in the HV output. So my next step may be to use a single PSU with two outputs, a HV+ and a HV-. I looks easy enough to do and I have just enough parts left for it (always buy more than you need.)
Anyway, the full details with photos and scope shots for both the negative mulplier board and the combines HV+/- testing are at:
http://rimstar.org/equip/negative_voltage_multiplier.htm
Thanks for all your help. I'll update you when I have the new dual output done. After that I can revamp my Hyde generator and test.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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An now I have the dual output PSU done too! Actually, three possible outputs at the same time, HV+ relative to ground, HV- relative to ground and ground itself. Amazingly I had all the parts I needed so it took me just one day to do and test. It was simply making a dual board circuit with a negative output multiplier and a positive output multiplier in parallel. The measured lowest potential difference was 2.84kV. I didn't test for highest since 2.8kV is about what I need. Construction, testing and some safety details at:
http://rimstar.org/equip/pos_neg_voltage_multiplier.htm
Next, to refurbish my Hyde generator and retest.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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Hello guys
I am making a cockroft walton multiplier and I want to be able to flip it round for either positive earth or negative earth. Please take a look at the attached drawing.
I want to power from either X or Y.
Will it work as shown or do I ned to modify the plan.
Thanks gsm
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Hello guys
I am making a cockroft walton multiplier and I want to be able to flip it round for either positive earth or negative earth. Please take a look at the attached drawing.
I want to power from either X or Y.
Will it work as shown or do I ned to modify the plan.
Thanks gsm
All your diodes are inherently polarized in one direction. You can't apply a reverse signal to a diode and expect it to work. It'll block reverse-going voltage and current.
However, if you wire two diodes together on one end with polarities reversed, the other end of each would have DC as a separate pulse oppositely, whereas each can be filtered distinctly by a capacitor to give two opposite DC signals at once. A switch can allow you to choose the one you want.
-----|<----Pulsating DC one way
/
A/C in ___/
\
\
----->|----Pulsating DC the other way
This works fine as an electrolysis arrangement. Now, building a Cockroft voltage ladder according to the diagram above is something I haven't got the time to think about right now.
This library is closing. Got to go.
--Lee
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Hi @gsmsslsb,
You could do like I did in Reply #10 above and put two multiplier circuits in one tube. This gives three terminals: HV+, ground, HV-. But you don't have to use all three terminals at any one time. So you can do: HV+ with ground, HV- with ground, or HV+ with HV-.
EDIT: Actually, a fourth option would be to use all three terminals at the same time.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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Hi @gsmsslsb,
You could do like I did in Reply #10 above and put two multiplier circuits in one tube. This gives three terminals: HV+, ground, HV-. But you don't have to use all three terminals at any one time. So you can do: HV+ with ground, HV- with ground, or HV+ with HV-.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
@gsmsslsb
Steven Dufresne is correct. I hadn't thought of that immediately. When AC is your source, you might switch between one of the three multipliers he suggested.
--Lee
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I know that I can make it that way but then I will only have + 185KV and - 185 kv relative to ground.
But if I can make it the flip over way and run it from either end then I can get + 370kv and -370kv relative to ground.
I just want to know if there will be any problem with the unconected capacitor in this configuration.
Thanks gsm
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@gsmsslsb,
Now I understand what you're trying to do. Very clever. Guys, go back and look again at his Reply #11, if like me you didn't get it right away. If you make the flyback connections at X then the diodes all point one way and if you make the flyback connections at Y then the diodes all point the other way.
I don't think the extra capacitor will matter since the other side of it will not be connected to anything. You will have to pay special attention to how you terminate and insulate things and how you make polarity changing switch terminals, especially at 370kV. That's some serious voltage for this type of circuit. I've only ever done 75kV.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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As for insulation I am looking into potting the whole thing in parafin wax.
Melts at 45 - 60 degC I will just have to check what temp the components can handle then get the wax.
I am feeding with a 15000 volt neon transformer and have 19 stage CW cascade so taking peak to peak voltage I should be able to get ove 300 KV.
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As for insulation I am looking into potting the whole thing in parafin wax.
Melts at 45 - 60 degC I will just have to check what temp the components can handle then get the wax.
I am feeding with a 15000 volt neon transformer and have 19 stage CW cascade so taking peak to peak voltage I should be able to get ove 300 KV.
Paraffin might be okay in terms of cost and availability, but a short to ground could be dangerous. Paraffin burns; that's why candles are made of it.
Years ago, paperweights were made with pourable neolite plastic that had objects of interest embedded in it and allowed to harden for a conversation piece. Can you find and use neolite?
--Lee
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FWIW I use mineral oil which I bought years ago in 500ml bottles at a pharmacy/drug store. They normally sell it as a laxative I think.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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As for insulation I am looking into potting the whole thing in parafin wax.
Melts at 45 - 60 degC I will just have to check what temp the components can handle then get the wax.
I am feeding with a 15000 volt neon transformer and have 19 stage CW cascade so taking peak to peak voltage I should be able to get over 300 KV.
Very hard to use a ladder over 100kv it will flash over everything and creep back over the diodes etc. Years ago i used clean engine oil it works fine. Gives about 3 times voltage rating before breakdown so if you had problems at say 50kv it will run to 150kv with the board submerged in oil. I used a tuppaware box filled with oil and put the lid on and used spark plug ht cables thru tiny holes in the lid far apart on the width.
Better to add just a few stages to NST then finish off with a large tesla coil that what they are made for!