Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 493827
  • *Total Topics: 14514
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 7
  • *Guests: 89
  • *Total: 96

Facebook

Author Topic: Ultracaps tested for excess energy  (Read 136209 times)

Offline PaulLowrance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
    • Global Free Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2009, 10:28:40 PM »
Heck with Vref+. The best way is to just stick it up close to Vcc, and use an op-amp. That's 2 op-amps, 1 for V, 1 for I. So add another 30 to 60 min. to the task list.

People have sent PM voicing interest in the data logger. Yes, data loggers are awesome!  :)   It will work for any input so long as it's within range of the ADC. That includes JT circuits. IOW, connect the JT to a battery or ultracap and you can data log the ultracaps voltage.

A few webpages I used to brush up on parallel ports,

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/vb/PortAccess.aspx

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/cs/Control_e_appliances/1.gif

Warning, massive pdf, 6.26MB,
http://www.fimee.ugto.mx/profesores/dohernandez/documentos/Parallel_Port_Complete_Programming,_Interfacing_and_Using_the_PCs_Parallel_Printer_Port.pdf

http://www.adwiens.com/projects/electronics/10/ADC0808_PPORT_SCH_LG.gif

Another fat pdf,
http://staff.iiu.edu.my/zzulkifli/mctlab2/old_manual.pdf

ADC0809,
http://www.national.com/ds/AD/ADC0808.pdf

Paul

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2009, 10:28:40 PM »

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2009, 11:58:06 PM »
Hi Paul,

It looks pretty much based on your data that supercaps are nonlinear devices.  So I did a search on "supercapacitor nonlinear" and here is what came up:

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=4592311

<<<
The role of supercapacitors in designing fuel cell powered portable applications
Harfman-Todorovic, M.   Chellappan, M.   Palma, L.   Enjeti, P. 
Dept. of Electr. Eng., Texas A&M Univ., College Station, TX;

Abstract
In this paper, the role of a supercapacitor in the design of fuel cell powered systems is discussed. First, the electric equivalent circuit model of the fuel cell and the supercapacitor is obtained using frequency analysis, which is essential in establishing a design procedure to size the required supercapacitor. It is evident from the nonlinear model of the supercapacitor that the capacitance increases with voltage. Since the fuel cell voltage is inversely proportional to the output power supplied, it is shown that combining fuel cell with supercapacitor is particularly advantageous to guard against load transients as higher energy is stored while supplying lighter loads.
>>>

So there you go, it is exactly like I speculated.

Good luck with your measurements, but the bottom line is that your supercap or ultracap will not give you more out than you put in.  It is easy to get thrown off by nonlinear devices.  Using LEDs to measure power is a classic one.  LEDs are nonlinear devices and are notoriously difficult to measure power with, not to mention the fact that almost no one seems cognizant of the issues related to the persistence of human vision and how that makes it basically impossible to use your eyes to gauge the relative power between flashing LEDs in separate circuits.  Then the Big Daddy of all nonlinear devices is the battery, and comparing start and end voltages is basically meaningless data.

Anyway, I am pretty much done with your thread and good luck.

MileHigh

Offline PaulLowrance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
    • Global Free Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2009, 12:10:49 AM »
So there you go, it is exactly like I speculated.

Good luck with your measurements, but the bottom line is that your supercap or ultracap will not give you more out than you put in.  It is easy to get thrown off by nonlinear devices.  Using LEDs to measure power is a classic one.  LEDs are nonlinear devices and are notoriously difficult to measure power with, not to mention the fact that almost no one seems cognizant of the issues related to the persistence of human vision and how that makes it basically impossible to use your eyes to gauge the relative power between flashing LEDs in separate circuits.  Then the Big Daddy of all nonlinear devices is the battery, and comparing start and end voltages is basically meaningless data.

MileHigh,

I have already discussed the topic, which is why the last posted data covers a wide voltage range.

What you have posted shows nothing new. To be honest, all you have done is posted information that is so basic that it goes without saying, but yes, I have already posted about this. Nothing new.



the bottom line is that your supercap or ultracap will not give you more out than you put in.

I have no idea if the ultracap will show cop>1, we'll find out for certain, no speculations, but sadly enough one fact remains, your statement clearly shows a closed mind.


Anyway, I am pretty much done with your thread and good luck.

Done? What have you shown here? Anything besides what I've already discussed, and what everyone here already knows?


Paul

Offline gadgetmall

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1733
    • Alternative Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2009, 02:52:50 AM »
and Heres the rest you left out :The other advantages of connecting the supercapacitor in parallel with the fuel cell are shown to be: (a) increased steady state stability when powering constant power loads, (b) voltage and system performance stability during fuel cell dynamics (purging), and (c) increased fuel efficiency (i.e. reduced hydrogen consumption). For transient stability analysis, the effect of fuel cell internal impedance (extra element), along with the impedance of the nonlinear supercapacitor, on the transfer function of the DC/DC converter is analyzed. Finally, experimental evaluation and comparison of fuel consumption in the conventional and hybrid systems is performed, showing that the hybrid source has improved fuel utilization. From these results, it is shown that the proposed approach permits optimization of energy management and improvement of dynamic performance of the power conditioner. The experimental results obtained on 20 W and 30 W PEM fuel cell/boost converter systems demonstrate the validity of the proposed approach.

Ans then again these are ULTRA capacitors and not Super capacitors . There are sizes see . Mini maxi super and Ultra

Offline PaulLowrance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
    • Global Free Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2009, 12:45:00 AM »
Hi,

Part of today was spent on getting the ADC input noise lower. It's now as quiet as a church mouse.

The other part of the day was spent on software. Making it a lot fancier. The file log system is being cached in memory and then it periodically dumps the cache into a file. Also keeps a file backup of the ongoing log in case something happens to the main log. The software also shows a plot of both ADC channels like an oscilloscope view. On top of that is channels in text. Above that is a bar that shows how fast it's logging the data. On my Windows XP machine it's doing ~ 800 logs per second. Another addition is an alarm that goes off if the software cannot connect to the ADC. It would be devastating if after 5 hours of logging data and something happens.

Unless another unexpected thing happens, everything should be ready to go tomorrow.

Paul

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2009, 12:45:00 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline broli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2009, 01:01:29 AM »
Hi,

Part of today was spent on getting the ADC input noise lower. It's now as quiet as a church mouse.

The other part of the day was spent on software. Making it a lot fancier. The file log system is being cached in memory and then it periodically dumps the cache into a file. Also keeps a file backup of the ongoing log in case something happens to the main log. The software also shows a plot of both ADC channels like an oscilloscope view. On top of that is channels in text. Above that is a bar that shows how fast it's logging the data. On my Windows XP machine it's doing ~ 800 logs per second. Another addition is an alarm that goes off if the software cannot connect to the ADC. It would be devastating if after 5 hours of logging data and something happens.

Unless another unexpected thing happens, everything should be ready to go tomorrow.

Paul

Wow. This post seriously oozes what this community is all about. Thank you for performing the data mining and in advance for sharing the data.

@MileHigh: I wish this forum had an ignore feature, your posts are utter and complete trash and your self rewarding behavior ruins the flow of any thread I read. I'm starting to think that that armchair of yours has a built in toilet. Do us a favor and remove this website from your bookmarks.

Offline innovation_station

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5145
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2009, 01:07:13 AM »
i know a good one when i see 1 ....  :)

thank you paul for all your effort work and questioning point of view ...  i saw you fly in the door ...


im like here we go  .....   

agin thank you sir!

william

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2009, 01:07:13 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2009, 02:02:32 AM »
Broli:

You have an issue with me because you only have a vague understanding of electronics and you know that I have a good understanding of electronics.  Perhaps that frustrates you and you are venting some anger?

Plus the talk on some of the threads has been tough lately and you think this is your opportunity to be a "tough guy" and not too many people will notice, correct?  You know what you are saying is out of line and totally inappropriate yet you are willing to take the risk because of your frustrations.  Maybe you will get yourself booted off OU.com.

MileHigh

Offline broli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2009, 02:10:44 AM »
Your armchair is making this thread smell. What happened to starting your own forum????????? Please leave I'll even help you set it up if your deadly fumes end up disappearing. Also MileLow the day YOU can get me "booted" from here is the day you invent overunity. Since we both know that will never happen, don't count on it.

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2009, 02:33:57 AM »
Broli:

I said that you would get yourself booted off, all by yourself.  I don't have to do anything.

Do you have something to contribute to Paul's thread or are you here just to make trouble?

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2009, 02:33:57 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline broli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2009, 02:41:51 AM »
Do you have something to contribute to Paul's thread or are you here just to make trouble?

MileHigh

Wait what? What did you contribute? It seems like you feel bad about someone putting a halt on your streak of ignorance and negative behavior. In nature there's no - without a +. Sadly for you I'm here to balance you out. I agree that my posts are trash but they are the counter trash of yours, so both deserve to be deleted. This thread should be about helping paul out in any way getting the needed data out of the bcap. If you step out of that border I'll be there to bite.

Offline electricme

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2009, 03:06:00 AM »
@ Paul,

Well done Paul, you should be commended for your effort over the last days, it's no small feat to put a software package together in the middle of a flame war.
This is one of the best software research tools I have heard about, and we need them to keep our real time data records.

BTW people, there are more big surprises coming up regarding Paul's mighty effort here. That's all I'm saying.

I am looking forward to being a BETA tester if that's OK by you Paul.

@IST,
Hello old friend, nice to see you here, I been irradiating me self wif Ultra Violet radiation by a MOT and the Bedini, wow groovy greens and light blue stuff, ha ha.
I betta get out the lead shields

jim

Offline Pirate88179

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8362
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2009, 03:09:17 AM »
broli:

I admire your tenacity in your posts.  Do not get upset here.  As I have tried to explain to Milehigh for a while now, Paul's test will prove something one way or the other.  I commend him for doing this for all of us.

As I have tried to get across to Milehigh many times, either Paul does the tests correctly, or he doesn't.  The opportunity for others to do their tests is wide open.  IF those tests differ from Paul's then we can discuss it.  I, personally, have faith in Paul's testing ability but, no one here has to take my word for that.  Milehigh can perform his own tests and then we can compare.  This is how we can learn what is real.

So, I would not bother to try to get Milehigh to see this.  He won't.  I have tried.  He is locked onto some things he thinks he has learned and there the learning has stopped for him, which is sad really.  He does sound like an educated guy with a lot of knowledge but, sad to say, a closed mind can not do science.  This is unfortunate but, I don't see a way to change that.

So, broli, we will let Paul continue along the path that he thinks is correct.  And, if anyone differs, they are MORE than welcome to perform the same tests THEIR way.

Bill

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2009, 03:32:22 AM »
Bill:

The "testing" argument is nothing more than an attempt by the "believers" to put up a protective shield and pretend that they should not listen to someone else's input because they are going to hear things that they don't want to hear.  Hearing other viewpoints "breaks" their fantasy, they only want to read postings that are in line with their own train of thought.

For example, I stated in one of the JT threads that there is nothing special about supercapacitors and you deleted the posts.  You were so sure of the "research" done in the JT threads that you had to hit the delete buttton because what I stated was "upsetting."  Meanwhile in reading some of your posts I can see that you are a beginner in electronics.  Another example:  I looked at Paul's data and speculated that the capacitance of a supercap increases as the voltage across the cap is increased.  Then the next day I found an IEEE paper that confirmed my speculation.  Broli calls that "utter and complete trash."  Go figure.

I am not stopping Paul from doing his testing and I tried making some suggestions to him for doing his tests.

With respect to supercapacitors, I can think of a crazy but applicable story for you.  You have a high-end Intel i7 gaming machine.  The Intel i8 chip comes out and you say to your friends, "The first thing I am going to do is see if I can get free energy out of the i8 chip.  After all, it's a new Intel chip so you never know it might be a free energy device."  It is as crazy as that with respect to looking for a source of free energy with a supercapacitor.

MileHigh

Offline PaulLowrance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
    • Global Free Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2009, 04:20:15 AM »
MileHigh,
 
 You seem to ignore the obvious. I keep telling you that measured ultracap capacitance changes far more with respect to temperature than voltage. In fact I gave you measurements of where the capacitance was far higher at a lower voltage, and I gave you measurements where the capacitance was far higher at a higher voltage-- both ways.
 
 Personally I don't think it's very big of you saying these utracaps do not exhibit excess energy. Especially when your theory absolutely fails to explain the *main* effect. I'm not saying it's excess energy. Maybe it is. Maybe it's not. Anyhow, sure enough if you think as you've demonstrated, then 99.99...% of the time you'll be correct? Big deal. It takes nothing to say it's impossible. It takes a lot more to explore the unknown. The problem is that such a closed minded mentality prevents you from discovering something that conventional science does not understand, ... unless you just happen to be extremely lucky.
 
 Paul
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2009, 04:20:15 AM »

 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at: